Re: Nada's New Idea... What to do?

[Guest guest]

>

> When hubby and I devote our 12 hr days on Saturdays to working at nada's farm,

we are not allowed to go into the house. If we need to use the bathroom, hubby

just waters a tree out in the wooded area behind the barn, I either hold it or

go through the issues of having to beg and listen to her complaints about how

badly I upset her dog by using her bathroom.

So, WHY do you continue to do it?

> Nada is getting older, there is a limit to some of what she can do now, but by

no means is she an invalid or in need of in home care of any kind. There is no

way for her to care for a 32 acre farm alone

Then she can be responsible for selling it. WHY are you making it your job to

rescue her? You must be getting something out of it in order to continue.

>Her barn smells like ammonia because of the amount of urine everywhere, and a

good portion of her farm smells the same way... Most of the cats are sick,

upper respiratory illness, eye infections, etc.

It sounds to me like a call to animal services is in order!

>I am trying my damned best to clean up the huge mess on her farm so >she can

sell it.

Again, let her be responsible for hiring professionals to help her, and let them

take care of this. It's her mess, she's an adult, and you are not responsible

for cleaning it up.

> I very much appreciate all of the suggestions that were made here, but once

again, things are just not that simple for me. If there were any family left

other than me to look after her, help her, take care of her, etc. believe me, I

would gladly step back, but it is only me and hubby... I just want an end to

the endless amount of work she seems to have for us to do, I want to see a light

at the end of the tunnel, however I can make that happen without abandoning her.

I want time to spend with my husband, I seldom even see him anymore because when

he's not at work or sleeping during the week, we are busy with our daughter's

school activities, shopping, and nada the rest of the time. I want to cook a

meal without my ear glued to a phone, I want to sleep without nada acting as my

alarm clock because she thinks I should be awake at that time.

Wow. Can you go back and read this paragraph you wrote again? I hear you

saying you have limits, and that you continue to allow your nada to push right

over them. This is your choice. You have the power to TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF

first. I understand it can be very difficult to let go of the guilt of

" abandoning " a hermit, but the truth is, you're not helping her at all--you're

enabling her, and all that work you think you're doing " for " her is actually not

doing anything but hurting both of you.

What steps can you take to take care of yourself and your marriage? What would

it be like to tell your mother you are not able to continue working for her, and

that she will need to hire someone to help her if she wants to continue living

there?

There is an excellent workshop that Randi Kreger did on personal limits and how

to evaluate the pros and cons of setting them on another site. If you are

willing to take a few minutes to look at it, it might be very helpful for you:

http://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=93309.0

I know none of this is easy for you. Your nada is not going to change, and

there will never be an end to the work she has for you unless YOU CHOOSE to stop

doing it. Your feelings matter, and it's up to you to protect your own life.

I wish you the best as you sort through all the choices ahead of you.

KT

[Guest guest]

>

> When hubby and I devote our 12 hr days on Saturdays to working at nada's farm,

we are not allowed to go into the house. If we need to use the bathroom, hubby

just waters a tree out in the wooded area behind the barn, I either hold it or

go through the issues of having to beg and listen to her complaints about how

badly I upset her dog by using her bathroom.

So, WHY do you continue to do it?

> Nada is getting older, there is a limit to some of what she can do now, but by

no means is she an invalid or in need of in home care of any kind. There is no

way for her to care for a 32 acre farm alone

Then she can be responsible for selling it. WHY are you making it your job to

rescue her? You must be getting something out of it in order to continue.

>Her barn smells like ammonia because of the amount of urine everywhere, and a

good portion of her farm smells the same way... Most of the cats are sick,

upper respiratory illness, eye infections, etc.

It sounds to me like a call to animal services is in order!

>I am trying my damned best to clean up the huge mess on her farm so >she can

sell it.

Again, let her be responsible for hiring professionals to help her, and let them

take care of this. It's her mess, she's an adult, and you are not responsible

for cleaning it up.

> I very much appreciate all of the suggestions that were made here, but once

again, things are just not that simple for me. If there were any family left

other than me to look after her, help her, take care of her, etc. believe me, I

would gladly step back, but it is only me and hubby... I just want an end to

the endless amount of work she seems to have for us to do, I want to see a light

at the end of the tunnel, however I can make that happen without abandoning her.

I want time to spend with my husband, I seldom even see him anymore because when

he's not at work or sleeping during the week, we are busy with our daughter's

school activities, shopping, and nada the rest of the time. I want to cook a

meal without my ear glued to a phone, I want to sleep without nada acting as my

alarm clock because she thinks I should be awake at that time.

Wow. Can you go back and read this paragraph you wrote again? I hear you

saying you have limits, and that you continue to allow your nada to push right

over them. This is your choice. You have the power to TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF

first. I understand it can be very difficult to let go of the guilt of

" abandoning " a hermit, but the truth is, you're not helping her at all--you're

enabling her, and all that work you think you're doing " for " her is actually not

doing anything but hurting both of you.

What steps can you take to take care of yourself and your marriage? What would

it be like to tell your mother you are not able to continue working for her, and

that she will need to hire someone to help her if she wants to continue living

there?

There is an excellent workshop that Randi Kreger did on personal limits and how

to evaluate the pros and cons of setting them on another site. If you are

willing to take a few minutes to look at it, it might be very helpful for you:

http://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=93309.0

I know none of this is easy for you. Your nada is not going to change, and

there will never be an end to the work she has for you unless YOU CHOOSE to stop

doing it. Your feelings matter, and it's up to you to protect your own life.

I wish you the best as you sort through all the choices ahead of you.

KT

[Guest guest]

The mess we are helping her with is the mess my step dad left behind... nada is

cleaning up her own mess inside the house, which was her domain. My step dad

left so much antique and garbage farm equipment, tools, automotive supplies, as

well as the " junk " he accumulated over the course of 20+ yrs... big steel beams

laying out in the field, decking, his collection of a thousand doors (thats what

I call it) from yrs working at lumber yards... he left so many containers of

chemicals behind, oil, antifreeze, gas, kerosene, etc. none of it any good...

its just plain and simply a huge mess. Nada could never handle cleaning it up

on her own, hubby and I are struggling with it as it is.

The other work we've been doing for her is stuff like cutting down dead trees

before they fall into her house, minor repairs on the exterior of her house like

fixing doors, etc. Come spring we have to burn all of the wood and brush, a

pile almost as big as her house now. I can't even imagine the fire she would

start if left to try to do that for herself... she'd burn down not only her own

house but prob a few neighbors with it.

The other things are maintenance on her vehicles, moving heavy stuff that she

can't lift... things of that nature. There's just so much of it that it seems

endless. The 4 car garage has a narrow pathway big enough for 1 body to fit

through and it winds through the mess, but everything else from floor to ceiling

is completely buried, and everything is so filthy.

To suggest she hire someone to help her is useless, even if she would let anyone

in there, she doesn't have the money for such a thing. So why do we help?

Because there is no other way to get it done and it needs to be done. Her

ability to move out of that place depends on getting all of that crap cleaned up

and out of there or packed for the move. Basic tools she will need for her new

house are being located and packed for the move, everything else is being sorted

to be sold or tossed. Its a tedious process when she is convinced that most of

it is worth money and insists she needs the money from selling it all just so

she can survive, but nobody is really buying anything because she either wants

too much for it or won't let anyone in to look around. She keeps telling us she

needs it organized first, needs to know what is there. There is a good chance

she will let us set her up a rummage sale this coming summer, as she is also

frustrated at having so much " stuff " that she knows nothing about and can't move

by herself.

Once the work outside and in the outbuildings is done then we will tackle the

basement, also mostly his mess. The way they lived leaves me dumbfounded. They

each had their own domain to hoard and stash stuff... her inside and him

outside. As he took over more of the outside over the years it kept her mess

going inside until her house began looking like the garage... a narrow pathway

through it all.

We did get her to start cleaning up the house just by getting some of his things

out of there. She gave us all of his clothing to pass out to the family members

who needed it and could use it. That was step #1, now its just a matter of

keeping her on track and continuing the cleanup. With only the 3 of us working

on the whole thing, its taking forever and I dread each time we have to go

there. The work seems endless.

When he died the only other people who came around or called were the ones who

wanted something for nothing. I come from a family of vultures! Call after

call with " I want this, I want that " and everyone expected her to just start

giving them whatever they wanted. This did nothing to help the BPD or the

hoarding issues with her, as suddenly nobody is trustworthy enough to be on her

property and the more they want her " stuff " the more stuff she wants to

accumulate for herself. Hubby and I even started bringing home things she

offered us just to get it out of her place... some of it we brought home and

simply tossed out in the trash, some we passed on to other family who needed it,

and some we kept to use for ourselves... but I have had to tell her " no " on more

than I can tell her yes because we also don't have space of all of that " stuff "

or any desire to have a mess at our house to work on when she is settled. I am

grateful to have some mementos of my step dad, I was fairly close to him,

especially over the past few years, but there is only so much I can justify

keeping for myself.

I am very angry with the rest of my family for leaving me to hold the bag on

this one. His kids are useless... the only one who has ever offered to help

can't be trusted (thats legit... I don't trust her either) and she's mostly an

airhead who barely functions in her own daily life. My sister, as I have

mentioned, has simply removed herself from the situation.

Part of why I help is simply that I love my nada and felt bad for the situation

she was left with. Not ALL of this is her fault or her doing, and for that she

doesn't deserve to just be told to sit and rot in the mess. I see her making

effort on her own, maybe not as much or as often as I'd like, but something with

her is always better than nothing. I can see through the BPD and other mental

deficiencies she suffers that she is sincerely grateful that not everyone

abandoned her as soon as step dad died. THAT is what I get out of it. I get to

see real emotion stir in a nada who has always otherwise been emotionless. I

get to enjoy the shock on her face that a person can be kind to her after

everything that has led to this moment, and I get to see her " try " to act and

behave normally in my presence more than she ever has before. Just because she

has BPD and other " issues " does not mean I can't show her love, does not mean I

don't want to show her love... that is my nature as a person. I would do the

same for anyone I saw in need.

Nada has lived in her BPD world her whole life alongside of her mother who I

believe also suffered from BPD. Nada's sister died when nada was only about 11

yrs old, at which time nada's mom shut down and stopped being a real mother to

my nada. I don't think my nada has ever considered that there is a different

way to live, a different way to treat people, a different way to think.

No, I can't change her, I am well aware of that... but I can set an example for

her to follow. Is that not what all good " parents " do for their children? If I

never saw her make any effort at change I would find it much easier to walk away

and remove the whole situation, including her, from my daily life. But I don't

see that as what is happening.

Hubby has known nada long enough now, he has a pretty good grasp on the

situation. He and I have discussed this too much over the past few years, but

he does agree that nada does show her moments where she sincerely tries to be a

better person, do the right thing, etc. Knowing that she has moments of sincere

effort that were never there before gives me hope that somehow this can work out

without a bigger mess and without me having to wash my hands of her completely.

I have reminded her at times that this current situation can only be temporary,

as hubby and I have a life we need to get back to as soon as possible. I fear

sometimes that is why she purposely drags her feet, afraid that when the current

situation is handled, we will simply abandon her like the rest of the family has

done. The BPD has made her extremely insecure, being widowed has made her

extremely lonely. Her " normal " way of life was turned upside down when he died,

the way they functioned doesn't work any longer and she is drowning in the pile

of mess they created and once handled together. If step dad were still around

and able to lead his normal daily life the situation would not be anything like

it is now. I just have to keep reminding myself that its temporary and find the

strength to survive it until there is an end... I know there is one somewhere.

> > > >

> > > > Hi again to everyone. This is going to be a very long post. I ask

> > everyone to bear with me because I need all of the help and advice I can get

> > on this one, and only this group can really help me.

> > > >

> > > > As I mentioned in my introduction a couple of wks ago, my step father

> > died back in July, leaving nada entirely alone (for the first time in her

> > life) with a 32 acre mess due to their 20+ yrs of hoarding. Hubby and I live

> > 2 1/2 hrs away from nada, and this past year, taking care of her has

> > literally sucked our lives away. Every Saturday though the end of November

> > was spent taking care of nada and her farm mess with only myself and my

> > husband to do the work.

> > > >

> > > > Being the oldest of 2 kids and the only one left now to take care of

> > nada leaves me in something of a bind legally, or soon will, when it comes

> > to her care. I have always known that day would eventually come, still not

> > sure how I will handle it.

> > > >

> > > > Nada is a real estate broker and understands she desperately needs to

> > move as soon as possible, but it seems to be taking forever to get the place

> > ready, for obvious reasons. I know I can't live the next few years like

> > this, nada sucking up every free moment because she's destitute and living

> > in a place that is literally falling apart around her, while expecting me

> > and hubby to get there every time she needs/wants us. Last night during my

> > nightly " nada sitting chat " online we were discussing again about finding

> > her a new house as soon as possible, so she began looking through the MLS

> > listings yet again. She sent me 1 listing, and now wants me and hubby to

> > make a life altering decision. This is what I need help with.

> > > >

> > > > What nada has proposed is a property, not necessarily this one but

> > another similar to it, near where she lives now (which is over an hour

> > closer for hubby to work and back every day) that has acreage, 10+ acres...

> > with 2 houses... one for us and one for nada. She wants us to be " neighbors "

> > on the same property. She spent 2 hrs pointing out all of the positive

> > aspects of doing such a thing, which, to an average person would make a

> > whole world of sense. If not for the BPD situation I would probably already

> > be packing... lol

> > > >

> > > > Nada and I discussed some rules, she agreed it would all be drawn up by

> > a lawyer, giving hubby and myself all legal rights to " our " house up front,

> > and the entire property would be given to us in her will. I was adamant that

> > I would not even consider such a thing if she left one of the houses to my

> > sister. I have no relationship with my sister, she may also suffer with the

> > BPD, not sure... but she is an extremely cruel and unpleasant person to be

> > around, so I simply have a NC relationship with her that has worked for both

> > of us for 20+ yrs. Nada agreed happily, and said she would do it immediately

> > as part of our legal arrangement when the property was purchased.

> > > >

> > > > Nada is thinking of paying for this entire new property so hubby and I

> > can eliminate our house payment, and she has discussed splitting taxes with

> > us in a way that would work for all. The financial end of this would be a

> > huge help and plus for me and hubby and would allow us to better help our

> > kids as they need it from time to time. This arrangement also includes

> > allowing me use of the land and outbuildings for my own fish wholesale

> > business, something I have been doing small scale for yrs now due to lack of

> > space and finances to expand in any way. (in this business the only way to

> > make decent money is large scale wholesale) Nada agreed that this would also

> > be written into the legal documents to avoid any conflicts that may arise

> > through the rest of her life with us as neighbors.

> > > >

> > > > There were many plus's to considering this arrangement, so I discussed

> > it with hubby this morning. He also wishes to hear the opinions of the group

> > before we discuss it again.

> > > >

> > > > Taking care of nada now that she is getting old is something I will

> > have to do regardless of where I live. This arrangement would make that much

> > easier and less time consuming... however, as you all know already, it isn't

> > just that simple. I can imagine some of you are cringing just at the thought

> > of such a thing.

> > > >

> > > > I know talk is cheap, legal documents or not. The day to day stress of

> > living next door is what I am concerned about. In our current situation 2

> > 1/2 hrs away she made a comment one night at about 1am " I'm hungry, I wish

> > you lived closer because you could make me something to eat and bring it

> > over " . At that moment I was forever grateful to be living so far away and

> > vowed to never live closer to her again. Hubby and I talked then about her

> > demanding and controlling ways and what it would be like to live near her.

> > The thought of it still makes me feel ill sometimes.

> > > >

> > > > I know that doing something like this will keep her front and center in

> > our lives for the rest of hers... but I guess my question is, how much worse

> > could it be than having to travel so far (with me not able to drive anymore)

> > to take care of her for the rest of her life? Either way she will be sucking

> > my life away... which makes more sense? The property, upon her death, would

> > leave me and hubby set for life, no question about that. Am I talking about

> > selling my soul without realizing it?

> > > >

> > > > Nada knows we can't move for at least the next 3 yrs... that is the

> > other part of this thing I need help with. The place she is in now is

> > killing me and hubby with trying to take care of her and it. Its falling

> > apart around her and so full of antiques mixed with junk, cat piss, and

> > filth that it makes me ill just thinking about it. I am concerned that in

> > nada's big new adventure she is going to drag her feet on the current house,

> > holding out for the next 3 yrs when we're able to move, to set up the above

> > mentioned situation. I know neither hubby nor I can survive another 3 yrs of

> > the way things are now. That is without question. Its just too much for the

> > 2 of us. Our own house is now starting to fall apart around us because we

> > are never home enough to take care of it anymore, we're too busy with the

> > never ending work at nada's farm. That is what has sucked our lives away and

> > what has caused me such excessive stress... and ultimately, what eventually

> > led me here to this group. I was desperate enough only a few weeks ago to

> > ask the help of an online friend who is a shrink... as I feared for my own

> > sanity.

> > > >

> > > > So, the big question... what would you do? How would you all approach

> > such a situation? If asked honestly, yes, I am considering this because of

> > some of the good points. Hubby agrees with me there... but that OVERWHELMING

> > FEAR of having her front and center in our faces 24/7 with her demands and

> > insults... is looming near. I have always expected that when she reaches a

> > point of needing more care than I can give, a live in caregiver is the only

> > option that makes any sense. Her insurance is enough that it shouldn't be

> > too difficult, but unless it is medically needed, the expense would all be

> > on me, and the way things are right now, I simply could not afford that.

> > This situation would help resolve that, I don't mind the extra house

> > cleaning if she's not standing over me giving me instructions each time. I

> > can help with her cooking by doing it at home and running it over to her

> > house once/day or every other day... and there would be times I wouldn't

> > mind " short " visits with her in our home. But how to set livable boundaries

> > for something like this? I can never again put myself out there where she

> > KNOWS I am at her mercy... never ever again. Be it financially or

> > emotionally.. I can't do that again.

> > > > How would you do it? I keep thinking there has to be a way to make this

> > work, just the how that evades me.

> > > >

> > > > Hubby sends his thanks in advance, as do I, for any contributions to

> > this post. I knew the day would come that I'd have to make the hard choices

> > (as if life hasn't been hard enough already) but I didn't expect it quite

> > this soon. I am so grateful I have this group now to help me with these

> > decisions... and to support me no matter how I choose to proceed. The

> > understanding and caring in this group is unmatched anywhere I have ever

> > been before in my life.

> > > >

> > > > I look forward to all of your replies!

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Armyinlaw, first I'm so glad you decided not to go for that two house option.

For the long run you'll be so much better off and able to more freely choose how

and where you spend time with your nada.

And I can't believe I forgot to mention this before but you don't have to do all

this work. If you sell the farm at a very discounted price, you may find a

buyer who is willing to do the cleanup *for you*. This actually happened when

my own nada had to move - she'd neglected the house for years and it had more

crap in it than could ever be sorted through. So the movers packed the best

stuff and left the rest (which she's still bitter about to this day) and the

buyer did the work of getting stuff thrown out or sent to goodwill and the

repairs on the house as well. He *really* wanted that house. So consider what

it would be like to just help your nada pack up what she really wants to keep

and throw out the rest and sell cheap. I don't doubt she'd put up a huge

tantrum over this, but it is an option and would get her moved out.

Good luck,

[Guest guest]

Armyinlaw, first I'm so glad you decided not to go for that two house option.

For the long run you'll be so much better off and able to more freely choose how

and where you spend time with your nada.

And I can't believe I forgot to mention this before but you don't have to do all

this work. If you sell the farm at a very discounted price, you may find a

buyer who is willing to do the cleanup *for you*. This actually happened when

my own nada had to move - she'd neglected the house for years and it had more

crap in it than could ever be sorted through. So the movers packed the best

stuff and left the rest (which she's still bitter about to this day) and the

buyer did the work of getting stuff thrown out or sent to goodwill and the

repairs on the house as well. He *really* wanted that house. So consider what

it would be like to just help your nada pack up what she really wants to keep

and throw out the rest and sell cheap. I don't doubt she'd put up a huge

tantrum over this, but it is an option and would get her moved out.

Good luck,

[Guest guest]

Armyinlaw, first I'm so glad you decided not to go for that two house option.

For the long run you'll be so much better off and able to more freely choose how

and where you spend time with your nada.

And I can't believe I forgot to mention this before but you don't have to do all

this work. If you sell the farm at a very discounted price, you may find a

buyer who is willing to do the cleanup *for you*. This actually happened when

my own nada had to move - she'd neglected the house for years and it had more

crap in it than could ever be sorted through. So the movers packed the best

stuff and left the rest (which she's still bitter about to this day) and the

buyer did the work of getting stuff thrown out or sent to goodwill and the

repairs on the house as well. He *really* wanted that house. So consider what

it would be like to just help your nada pack up what she really wants to keep

and throw out the rest and sell cheap. I don't doubt she'd put up a huge

tantrum over this, but it is an option and would get her moved out.

Good luck,

[Guest guest]

Army in law,

When I travel, I have one simple rule. I don't pack more than I can

physically carry by myself. I think this advice applies to life as well -

don't take on more animals, possessions, treasures etc than you can care for

yourself.

Now, your nada and step fada broke this rule. That was their choice. Nada's

husband made the mess - but that does not mean that you have to clean it up!

She broke the rule!! She lived with a man who broke it.

If you do choose to clean it up, that's your choice, but its important to

realize that you do have a choice.

GS

>

>

> Armyinlaw, first I'm so glad you decided not to go for that two house

> option. For the long run you'll be so much better off and able to more

> freely choose how and where you spend time with your nada.

>

> And I can't believe I forgot to mention this before but you don't have to

> do all this work. If you sell the farm at a very discounted price, you may

> find a buyer who is willing to do the cleanup *for you*. This actually

> happened when my own nada had to move - she'd neglected the house for years

> and it had more crap in it than could ever be sorted through. So the movers

> packed the best stuff and left the rest (which she's still bitter about to

> this day) and the buyer did the work of getting stuff thrown out or sent to

> goodwill and the repairs on the house as well. He *really* wanted that

> house. So consider what it would be like to just help your nada pack up what

> she really wants to keep and throw out the rest and sell cheap. I don't

> doubt she'd put up a huge tantrum over this, but it is an option and would

> get her moved out.

>

> Good luck,

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Army in law,

When I travel, I have one simple rule. I don't pack more than I can

physically carry by myself. I think this advice applies to life as well -

don't take on more animals, possessions, treasures etc than you can care for

yourself.

Now, your nada and step fada broke this rule. That was their choice. Nada's

husband made the mess - but that does not mean that you have to clean it up!

She broke the rule!! She lived with a man who broke it.

If you do choose to clean it up, that's your choice, but its important to

realize that you do have a choice.

GS

>

>

> Armyinlaw, first I'm so glad you decided not to go for that two house

> option. For the long run you'll be so much better off and able to more

> freely choose how and where you spend time with your nada.

>

> And I can't believe I forgot to mention this before but you don't have to

> do all this work. If you sell the farm at a very discounted price, you may

> find a buyer who is willing to do the cleanup *for you*. This actually

> happened when my own nada had to move - she'd neglected the house for years

> and it had more crap in it than could ever be sorted through. So the movers

> packed the best stuff and left the rest (which she's still bitter about to

> this day) and the buyer did the work of getting stuff thrown out or sent to

> goodwill and the repairs on the house as well. He *really* wanted that

> house. So consider what it would be like to just help your nada pack up what

> she really wants to keep and throw out the rest and sell cheap. I don't

> doubt she'd put up a huge tantrum over this, but it is an option and would

> get her moved out.

>

> Good luck,

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Army in law,

When I travel, I have one simple rule. I don't pack more than I can

physically carry by myself. I think this advice applies to life as well -

don't take on more animals, possessions, treasures etc than you can care for

yourself.

Now, your nada and step fada broke this rule. That was their choice. Nada's

husband made the mess - but that does not mean that you have to clean it up!

She broke the rule!! She lived with a man who broke it.

If you do choose to clean it up, that's your choice, but its important to

realize that you do have a choice.

GS

>

>

> Armyinlaw, first I'm so glad you decided not to go for that two house

> option. For the long run you'll be so much better off and able to more

> freely choose how and where you spend time with your nada.

>

> And I can't believe I forgot to mention this before but you don't have to

> do all this work. If you sell the farm at a very discounted price, you may

> find a buyer who is willing to do the cleanup *for you*. This actually

> happened when my own nada had to move - she'd neglected the house for years

> and it had more crap in it than could ever be sorted through. So the movers

> packed the best stuff and left the rest (which she's still bitter about to

> this day) and the buyer did the work of getting stuff thrown out or sent to

> goodwill and the repairs on the house as well. He *really* wanted that

> house. So consider what it would be like to just help your nada pack up what

> she really wants to keep and throw out the rest and sell cheap. I don't

> doubt she'd put up a huge tantrum over this, but it is an option and would

> get her moved out.

>

> Good luck,

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You are fighting a losing battle. It s time for a strategic retreat. You

cannot overcome her hoarding. If she won t quit, it, and she, will win.

I tell you from personal experience, if they wont agree to get help and get it

stopped, and help ( professional to clean and de clutter) you are rolling a

Stone of sysaphis up a hill. It will always roll back down and defeat you.

I m sorry this is true, but I assure you it is.

Some resources for Children of Hoarders. My nada was a hoarder as well as a BP.

http://www.childrenofhoarders.com/bindex.php

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/childrenofhoarders/

Finally, a story about hoarders. The most famous case was of 2 elderly brothers

in New York City. They were wealthy, and lived in a 5 story multi million dollar

mansion. One brother was in a wheel chair. The other was the primary hoarder.

He took food to his brother every day. He had so much hoarded, that there were

tunnels thru the junk to get to his brother. He was paranoid about someone

breaking in and stealing his junk, so he rigged booby traps to collapse it on

anyone trying to get thru the maze of paths.

One day, one of his traps fell on him, and smothered him. His brother died of

starvation. Police were alerted when the smell reached neighbors. When

firefighters tried to enter, the traps were so dangersous they had to back out.

They finally cut off the roof and began to remove stuff till they could find the

bodies. They removed, among other things, over 15 grand pianos. They finally

found the bodies. Due to the danger, it was finally decided to raze the entire

mansion, and millions of dollars worth of good stuff, and tons of junk, and take

it all to the dump.

You cannot stop her hoarding. Those hours, and dollars you are spending are

being poured down a rat hole. If she will not agree to change, to get serious

help, if it were me, I would draw a line in the sand.

You do this, or we are done. We will not keep fighting this fight with you. You

cannot clean more and faster than she can hoard and fill it with filth.

This is not your fault. Nor is it your responsibility. She has you enmeshed,

and enabling her to continue hoarding. You can stop. So can she. It is hard,

and she is not ready, but you don t have to keep pouring your life into her

obsession.

Good luck

Doug

[Guest guest]

You are fighting a losing battle. It s time for a strategic retreat. You

cannot overcome her hoarding. If she won t quit, it, and she, will win.

I tell you from personal experience, if they wont agree to get help and get it

stopped, and help ( professional to clean and de clutter) you are rolling a

Stone of sysaphis up a hill. It will always roll back down and defeat you.

I m sorry this is true, but I assure you it is.

Some resources for Children of Hoarders. My nada was a hoarder as well as a BP.

http://www.childrenofhoarders.com/bindex.php

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/childrenofhoarders/

Finally, a story about hoarders. The most famous case was of 2 elderly brothers

in New York City. They were wealthy, and lived in a 5 story multi million dollar

mansion. One brother was in a wheel chair. The other was the primary hoarder.

He took food to his brother every day. He had so much hoarded, that there were

tunnels thru the junk to get to his brother. He was paranoid about someone

breaking in and stealing his junk, so he rigged booby traps to collapse it on

anyone trying to get thru the maze of paths.

One day, one of his traps fell on him, and smothered him. His brother died of

starvation. Police were alerted when the smell reached neighbors. When

firefighters tried to enter, the traps were so dangersous they had to back out.

They finally cut off the roof and began to remove stuff till they could find the

bodies. They removed, among other things, over 15 grand pianos. They finally

found the bodies. Due to the danger, it was finally decided to raze the entire

mansion, and millions of dollars worth of good stuff, and tons of junk, and take

it all to the dump.

You cannot stop her hoarding. Those hours, and dollars you are spending are

being poured down a rat hole. If she will not agree to change, to get serious

help, if it were me, I would draw a line in the sand.

You do this, or we are done. We will not keep fighting this fight with you. You

cannot clean more and faster than she can hoard and fill it with filth.

This is not your fault. Nor is it your responsibility. She has you enmeshed,

and enabling her to continue hoarding. You can stop. So can she. It is hard,

and she is not ready, but you don t have to keep pouring your life into her

obsession.

Good luck

Doug

[Guest guest]

You are fighting a losing battle. It s time for a strategic retreat. You

cannot overcome her hoarding. If she won t quit, it, and she, will win.

I tell you from personal experience, if they wont agree to get help and get it

stopped, and help ( professional to clean and de clutter) you are rolling a

Stone of sysaphis up a hill. It will always roll back down and defeat you.

I m sorry this is true, but I assure you it is.

Some resources for Children of Hoarders. My nada was a hoarder as well as a BP.

http://www.childrenofhoarders.com/bindex.php

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/childrenofhoarders/

Finally, a story about hoarders. The most famous case was of 2 elderly brothers

in New York City. They were wealthy, and lived in a 5 story multi million dollar

mansion. One brother was in a wheel chair. The other was the primary hoarder.

He took food to his brother every day. He had so much hoarded, that there were

tunnels thru the junk to get to his brother. He was paranoid about someone

breaking in and stealing his junk, so he rigged booby traps to collapse it on

anyone trying to get thru the maze of paths.

One day, one of his traps fell on him, and smothered him. His brother died of

starvation. Police were alerted when the smell reached neighbors. When

firefighters tried to enter, the traps were so dangersous they had to back out.

They finally cut off the roof and began to remove stuff till they could find the

bodies. They removed, among other things, over 15 grand pianos. They finally

found the bodies. Due to the danger, it was finally decided to raze the entire

mansion, and millions of dollars worth of good stuff, and tons of junk, and take

it all to the dump.

You cannot stop her hoarding. Those hours, and dollars you are spending are

being poured down a rat hole. If she will not agree to change, to get serious

help, if it were me, I would draw a line in the sand.

You do this, or we are done. We will not keep fighting this fight with you. You

cannot clean more and faster than she can hoard and fill it with filth.

This is not your fault. Nor is it your responsibility. She has you enmeshed,

and enabling her to continue hoarding. You can stop. So can she. It is hard,

and she is not ready, but you don t have to keep pouring your life into her

obsession.

Good luck

Doug

[Guest guest]

Wow facinating stories about the brothers, Doug. Thank you for sharing.

>

>

> You are fighting a losing battle. It s time for a strategic retreat. You

> cannot overcome her hoarding. If she won t quit, it, and she, will win.

>

> I tell you from personal experience, if they wont agree to get help and get

> it stopped, and help ( professional to clean and de clutter) you are rolling

> a Stone of sysaphis up a hill. It will always roll back down and defeat you.

>

>

> I m sorry this is true, but I assure you it is.

>

> Some resources for Children of Hoarders. My nada was a hoarder as well as a

> BP.

>

> http://www.childrenofhoarders.com/bindex.php

>

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/childrenofhoarders/

>

> Finally, a story about hoarders. The most famous case was of 2 elderly

> brothers in New York City. They were wealthy, and lived in a 5 story multi

> million dollar mansion. One brother was in a wheel chair. The other was the

> primary hoarder. He took food to his brother every day. He had so much

> hoarded, that there were tunnels thru the junk to get to his brother. He was

> paranoid about someone breaking in and stealing his junk, so he rigged booby

> traps to collapse it on anyone trying to get thru the maze of paths.

>

> One day, one of his traps fell on him, and smothered him. His brother died

> of starvation. Police were alerted when the smell reached neighbors. When

> firefighters tried to enter, the traps were so dangersous they had to back

> out. They finally cut off the roof and began to remove stuff till they could

> find the bodies. They removed, among other things, over 15 grand pianos.

> They finally found the bodies. Due to the danger, it was finally decided to

> raze the entire mansion, and millions of dollars worth of good stuff, and

> tons of junk, and take it all to the dump.

>

> You cannot stop her hoarding. Those hours, and dollars you are spending are

> being poured down a rat hole. If she will not agree to change, to get

> serious help, if it were me, I would draw a line in the sand.

>

> You do this, or we are done. We will not keep fighting this fight with you.

> You cannot clean more and faster than she can hoard and fill it with filth.

>

> This is not your fault. Nor is it your responsibility. She has you

> enmeshed, and enabling her to continue hoarding. You can stop. So can she.

> It is hard, and she is not ready, but you don t have to keep pouring your

> life into her obsession.

>

> Good luck

>

> Doug

>

>

>