The slow decline is beginning

[Guest guest]

Sister let me know that our nada is starting to hallucinate more frequently now.

Yesterday nada became very upset and anxious and called the maintenance man from

her apartment complex to come and get rid of " all those people out in the back

of the building doing something suspicious " ... people who weren't there. The

maintenance man called Sister, worried that maybe he needed to call an ambulance

for nada because she was so upset. Sister phoned nada and talked to her and

calmed her down enough so that nada could go back to bed (this was late at

night.) Since nada is now also paranoid about Sister's intent and motives RE her

money, we're hoping that nada's sister will be able to talk nada into seeing a

psychiatrist. Sister knows that if either of us makes that suggestion nada will

automatically reject it.

So, it seems highly likely that nada is now sliding rapidly into Alzheimer's.

Sister suggests a smaller group-living situation, in which 3 or 4 patients share

a home, get their own bedroom with their own furniture, and one care-taker to

look after them. Both of us think that will be the best solution for our nada

at this time. If she's having breaks with reality more frequently now, we don't

want her using the stove and perhaps walking off and leaving the burner on. She

doesn't need physical nursing care yet, but Sister and I think she will do

better with other people around and a care-giver who can keep an eye on them.

The only catch is to get nada to agree to the psychiatric evaluation and agree

to the group home living arrangement. Sister and I are counting on nada's

sister, our aunt, to help with persuading nada that she will be happier with

those arrangements. Our nada is notorious for asking Sister or me for advice,

then blaming us when the whatever it is doesn't work to her satisfaction, or

changing her mind, etc. So, this may take a long time.

If she hallucinates and becomes hysterical again to the point where the

maintenance man or a neighbor calls an ambulance, then, the matter will be out

of nada's hands.

I feel sorry for nada when she is genuinely distressed, its sad; its just

fucking sad.

With the encroaching Alzheimers, the behaviors we are seeing now are just a more

extreme or concentrated form of nada's core personality disorder. What control

she did have over her thoughts and feelings is dissolving away; she's showing

her negative side to other people besides Sister and me, now. Sister shared

some things with me that have occurred over the last 10 years or so that I

didn't know about; incidents with neighbors and with her doctor in which nada

lashed out and was raging at them she way she used to only do with us.

I believe the Alzheimers is exposing nada's bedrock personality-disordered,

skewed, cognitively-distorted, negative thinking and feeling more often now.

She was always so disappointed in us, didn't trust us (oh, how often was I shown

that she didn't trust me!) resented us, felt we owed her (we were always selfish

ingrates) her feelings of superiority and even contempt towards us, etc., but

she was able to cover up those feelings more of the time. Now, she can't.

Well, that's all my news for now. Its just a matter of taking it one day at a

time, I guess, and hoping that nada herself will decide that its better for her

to be in a group home before she does something scary or dangerous that hurts

her or other people.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

Annie,it really is sad...I wonder how often Alzheimer's is the eventual course

BPD takes--it just seems to me that such a profound mental disorder must

inevitably break down and down since it doesn't get better and that surely there

is a subtype of Alzheimer's that is BPD " decomposing " .Very tragic and very sad

indeed.

I hope your aunt can get through to your nada but maybe it is also time

to consider calling an ambulance for her if something like this happens again?

And to let her psychiatrist know that this is the plan?

And,if possible,get your nada placed on the waiting lists of several

elder care facilities of you and your sister's choice so that she can be placed

somewhere of your choosing in case an emergency arises,just to have as back up.I

know that each state has online listings of care facilities that are graded

according to whether or not they've had complaints and when and what--so that

helps to narrow the choices down.

Wow,I'm sorry,Annie...all of this must be alot to take in.

Take care,

>

> Sister let me know that our nada is starting to hallucinate more frequently

now. Yesterday nada became very upset and anxious and called the maintenance

man from her apartment complex to come and get rid of " all those people out in

the back of the building doing something suspicious " ... people who weren't

there. The maintenance man called Sister, worried that maybe he needed to call

an ambulance for nada because she was so upset. Sister phoned nada and talked

to her and calmed her down enough so that nada could go back to bed (this was

late at night.) Since nada is now also paranoid about Sister's intent and

motives RE her money, we're hoping that nada's sister will be able to talk nada

into seeing a psychiatrist. Sister knows that if either of us makes that

suggestion nada will automatically reject it.

>

> So, it seems highly likely that nada is now sliding rapidly into Alzheimer's.

Sister suggests a smaller group-living situation, in which 3 or 4 patients share

a home, get their own bedroom with their own furniture, and one care-taker to

look after them. Both of us think that will be the best solution for our nada

at this time. If she's having breaks with reality more frequently now, we don't

want her using the stove and perhaps walking off and leaving the burner on. She

doesn't need physical nursing care yet, but Sister and I think she will do

better with other people around and a care-giver who can keep an eye on them.

>

> The only catch is to get nada to agree to the psychiatric evaluation and agree

to the group home living arrangement. Sister and I are counting on nada's

sister, our aunt, to help with persuading nada that she will be happier with

those arrangements. Our nada is notorious for asking Sister or me for advice,

then blaming us when the whatever it is doesn't work to her satisfaction, or

changing her mind, etc. So, this may take a long time.

>

> If she hallucinates and becomes hysterical again to the point where the

maintenance man or a neighbor calls an ambulance, then, the matter will be out

of nada's hands.

>

> I feel sorry for nada when she is genuinely distressed, its sad; its just

fucking sad.

>

> With the encroaching Alzheimers, the behaviors we are seeing now are just a

more extreme or concentrated form of nada's core personality disorder. What

control she did have over her thoughts and feelings is dissolving away; she's

showing her negative side to other people besides Sister and me, now. Sister

shared some things with me that have occurred over the last 10 years or so that

I didn't know about; incidents with neighbors and with her doctor in which nada

lashed out and was raging at them she way she used to only do with us.

>

> I believe the Alzheimers is exposing nada's bedrock personality-disordered,

skewed, cognitively-distorted, negative thinking and feeling more often now.

She was always so disappointed in us, didn't trust us (oh, how often was I shown

that she didn't trust me!) resented us, felt we owed her (we were always selfish

ingrates) her feelings of superiority and even contempt towards us, etc., but

she was able to cover up those feelings more of the time. Now, she can't.

>

> Well, that's all my news for now. Its just a matter of taking it one day at a

time, I guess, and hoping that nada herself will decide that its better for her

to be in a group home before she does something scary or dangerous that hurts

her or other people.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

Annie,it really is sad...I wonder how often Alzheimer's is the eventual course

BPD takes--it just seems to me that such a profound mental disorder must

inevitably break down and down since it doesn't get better and that surely there

is a subtype of Alzheimer's that is BPD " decomposing " .Very tragic and very sad

indeed.

I hope your aunt can get through to your nada but maybe it is also time

to consider calling an ambulance for her if something like this happens again?

And to let her psychiatrist know that this is the plan?

And,if possible,get your nada placed on the waiting lists of several

elder care facilities of you and your sister's choice so that she can be placed

somewhere of your choosing in case an emergency arises,just to have as back up.I

know that each state has online listings of care facilities that are graded

according to whether or not they've had complaints and when and what--so that

helps to narrow the choices down.

Wow,I'm sorry,Annie...all of this must be alot to take in.

Take care,

>

> Sister let me know that our nada is starting to hallucinate more frequently

now. Yesterday nada became very upset and anxious and called the maintenance

man from her apartment complex to come and get rid of " all those people out in

the back of the building doing something suspicious " ... people who weren't

there. The maintenance man called Sister, worried that maybe he needed to call

an ambulance for nada because she was so upset. Sister phoned nada and talked

to her and calmed her down enough so that nada could go back to bed (this was

late at night.) Since nada is now also paranoid about Sister's intent and

motives RE her money, we're hoping that nada's sister will be able to talk nada

into seeing a psychiatrist. Sister knows that if either of us makes that

suggestion nada will automatically reject it.

>

> So, it seems highly likely that nada is now sliding rapidly into Alzheimer's.

Sister suggests a smaller group-living situation, in which 3 or 4 patients share

a home, get their own bedroom with their own furniture, and one care-taker to

look after them. Both of us think that will be the best solution for our nada

at this time. If she's having breaks with reality more frequently now, we don't

want her using the stove and perhaps walking off and leaving the burner on. She

doesn't need physical nursing care yet, but Sister and I think she will do

better with other people around and a care-giver who can keep an eye on them.

>

> The only catch is to get nada to agree to the psychiatric evaluation and agree

to the group home living arrangement. Sister and I are counting on nada's

sister, our aunt, to help with persuading nada that she will be happier with

those arrangements. Our nada is notorious for asking Sister or me for advice,

then blaming us when the whatever it is doesn't work to her satisfaction, or

changing her mind, etc. So, this may take a long time.

>

> If she hallucinates and becomes hysterical again to the point where the

maintenance man or a neighbor calls an ambulance, then, the matter will be out

of nada's hands.

>

> I feel sorry for nada when she is genuinely distressed, its sad; its just

fucking sad.

>

> With the encroaching Alzheimers, the behaviors we are seeing now are just a

more extreme or concentrated form of nada's core personality disorder. What

control she did have over her thoughts and feelings is dissolving away; she's

showing her negative side to other people besides Sister and me, now. Sister

shared some things with me that have occurred over the last 10 years or so that

I didn't know about; incidents with neighbors and with her doctor in which nada

lashed out and was raging at them she way she used to only do with us.

>

> I believe the Alzheimers is exposing nada's bedrock personality-disordered,

skewed, cognitively-distorted, negative thinking and feeling more often now.

She was always so disappointed in us, didn't trust us (oh, how often was I shown

that she didn't trust me!) resented us, felt we owed her (we were always selfish

ingrates) her feelings of superiority and even contempt towards us, etc., but

she was able to cover up those feelings more of the time. Now, she can't.

>

> Well, that's all my news for now. Its just a matter of taking it one day at a

time, I guess, and hoping that nada herself will decide that its better for her

to be in a group home before she does something scary or dangerous that hurts

her or other people.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, . The support I get from you and the other members here means

a lot to me. And thanks for the information about getting our ducks in a row

ahead of time RE getting on a list for the good nursing care facilities in

nada's area when that time comes. I think Sister has already checked out some

of the less-intensive group-home type facilities in her area for those who are

still fairly independent and able to handle self-care, and has a couple in mind.

I too want to make sure that when the time comes that our nada needs physical

assistance/nursing care, we will select a facility for her that has a good

rating and that one or both of us can check up on her often enough to make sure

she's being treated well.

I have less reservations about resuming contact with my nada if she agrees to go

on and stay on meds to stabilize her mood swings and eliminate the psychotic

breaks with reality, and if she is living in a group home. I would feel safer

that way.

I really wonder if, eventually, it will be discovered that bpd and Alzheimers

are related in some way? But then, from what I've read even physical brain

injury can result in some bpd-like behaviors, too.

I'm personally convinced that bpd must be a physical, organic brain impairment

of some kind, and those severely affected by it can't be cured by talk therapy

any more than someone with Alzheimers or a brain injury (or visual impairment)

can be cured by talk therapy. I also think that the genetic lottery is a bigger

factor than environment, and has specifically to do with being born with an

extremely, abnormally sensitive temperament ( " no emotional skin " ) so that to the

hyper-sensitive infant her entire world feels invalidating to her from day one.

I'm also personally convinced that individuals who have been diagnosed with bpd

but then claim to have recovered from it either didn't have bpd to begin with

(just a really severe case of " fleas " ) or they are so very, very mildly affected

that they have the ability to control their disordered thoughts, feelings and

actions by sheer willpower. (sort of like that schizophrenic mathematical

genius in " A Beautiful Mind " , who eventually came to understand and accept that

he was hallucinating but consciously chose to ignore the hallucinations; a

stunningly unusual and remarkable achievement of will.)

That's why my hopes are weighted in the arena of the hard sciences and such

things as gene therapy that have the potential to graft some " emotional skin "

back onto those born without it and relieve their suffering, and the suffering

such individuals cause.

I realize that is not very politically correct of me, but, that's just my own

personal opinion and I don't expect everyone else to think the same way I do.

(But... I bet that it turns out that I'm right, eventually.)

Thanks again.

-Annie

> >

> > Sister let me know that our nada is starting to hallucinate more frequently

now. Yesterday nada became very upset and anxious and called the maintenance

man from her apartment complex to come and get rid of " all those people out in

the back of the building doing something suspicious " ... people who weren't

there. The maintenance man called Sister, worried that maybe he needed to call

an ambulance for nada because she was so upset. Sister phoned nada and talked

to her and calmed her down enough so that nada could go back to bed (this was

late at night.) Since nada is now also paranoid about Sister's intent and

motives RE her money, we're hoping that nada's sister will be able to talk nada

into seeing a psychiatrist. Sister knows that if either of us makes that

suggestion nada will automatically reject it.

> >

> > So, it seems highly likely that nada is now sliding rapidly into

Alzheimer's. Sister suggests a smaller group-living situation, in which 3 or 4

patients share a home, get their own bedroom with their own furniture, and one

care-taker to look after them. Both of us think that will be the best solution

for our nada at this time. If she's having breaks with reality more frequently

now, we don't want her using the stove and perhaps walking off and leaving the

burner on. She doesn't need physical nursing care yet, but Sister and I think

she will do better with other people around and a care-giver who can keep an eye

on them.

> >

> > The only catch is to get nada to agree to the psychiatric evaluation and

agree to the group home living arrangement. Sister and I are counting on nada's

sister, our aunt, to help with persuading nada that she will be happier with

those arrangements. Our nada is notorious for asking Sister or me for advice,

then blaming us when the whatever it is doesn't work to her satisfaction, or

changing her mind, etc. So, this may take a long time.

> >

> > If she hallucinates and becomes hysterical again to the point where the

maintenance man or a neighbor calls an ambulance, then, the matter will be out

of nada's hands.

> >

> > I feel sorry for nada when she is genuinely distressed, its sad; its just

fucking sad.

> >

> > With the encroaching Alzheimers, the behaviors we are seeing now are just a

more extreme or concentrated form of nada's core personality disorder. What

control she did have over her thoughts and feelings is dissolving away; she's

showing her negative side to other people besides Sister and me, now. Sister

shared some things with me that have occurred over the last 10 years or so that

I didn't know about; incidents with neighbors and with her doctor in which nada

lashed out and was raging at them she way she used to only do with us.

> >

> > I believe the Alzheimers is exposing nada's bedrock personality-disordered,

skewed, cognitively-distorted, negative thinking and feeling more often now.

She was always so disappointed in us, didn't trust us (oh, how often was I shown

that she didn't trust me!) resented us, felt we owed her (we were always selfish

ingrates) her feelings of superiority and even contempt towards us, etc., but

she was able to cover up those feelings more of the time. Now, she can't.

> >

> > Well, that's all my news for now. Its just a matter of taking it one day at

a time, I guess, and hoping that nada herself will decide that its better for

her to be in a group home before she does something scary or dangerous that

hurts her or other people.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Even without Alzhiemer's I think that the BP's just deteriorate as they age. I

see the same thing with Fada 87 years old. Alzheimer's would exasperate this

even more. Good luck!

Kay

>

> Sister let me know that our nada is starting to hallucinate more frequently

now. Yesterday nada became very upset and anxious and called the maintenance

man from her apartment complex to come and get rid of " all those people out in

the back of the building doing something suspicious " ... people who weren't

there. The maintenance man called Sister, worried that maybe he needed to call

an ambulance for nada because she was so upset. Sister phoned nada and talked

to her and calmed her down enough so that nada could go back to bed (this was

late at night.) Since nada is now also paranoid about Sister's intent and

motives RE her money, we're hoping that nada's sister will be able to talk nada

into seeing a psychiatrist. Sister knows that if either of us makes that

suggestion nada will automatically reject it.

>

> So, it seems highly likely that nada is now sliding rapidly into Alzheimer's.

Sister suggests a smaller group-living situation, in which 3 or 4 patients share

a home, get their own bedroom with their own furniture, and one care-taker to

look after them. Both of us think that will be the best solution for our nada

at this time. If she's having breaks with reality more frequently now, we don't

want her using the stove and perhaps walking off and leaving the burner on. She

doesn't need physical nursing care yet, but Sister and I think she will do

better with other people around and a care-giver who can keep an eye on them.

>

> The only catch is to get nada to agree to the psychiatric evaluation and agree

to the group home living arrangement. Sister and I are counting on nada's

sister, our aunt, to help with persuading nada that she will be happier with

those arrangements. Our nada is notorious for asking Sister or me for advice,

then blaming us when the whatever it is doesn't work to her satisfaction, or

changing her mind, etc. So, this may take a long time.

>

> If she hallucinates and becomes hysterical again to the point where the

maintenance man or a neighbor calls an ambulance, then, the matter will be out

of nada's hands.

>

> I feel sorry for nada when she is genuinely distressed, its sad; its just

fucking sad.

>

> With the encroaching Alzheimers, the behaviors we are seeing now are just a

more extreme or concentrated form of nada's core personality disorder. What

control she did have over her thoughts and feelings is dissolving away; she's

showing her negative side to other people besides Sister and me, now. Sister

shared some things with me that have occurred over the last 10 years or so that

I didn't know about; incidents with neighbors and with her doctor in which nada

lashed out and was raging at them she way she used to only do with us.

>

> I believe the Alzheimers is exposing nada's bedrock personality-disordered,

skewed, cognitively-distorted, negative thinking and feeling more often now.

She was always so disappointed in us, didn't trust us (oh, how often was I shown

that she didn't trust me!) resented us, felt we owed her (we were always selfish

ingrates) her feelings of superiority and even contempt towards us, etc., but

she was able to cover up those feelings more of the time. Now, she can't.

>

> Well, that's all my news for now. Its just a matter of taking it one day at a

time, I guess, and hoping that nada herself will decide that its better for her

to be in a group home before she does something scary or dangerous that hurts

her or other people.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

Annie,I do think that there is a relationship between BPD and Alzheimer's--I

also think though that what we call " Alzheimer's " is actually a couple of

different diseases with similar symptoms but different etiologies,one of which I

really think is BPD that degenerates further into an Alzheimer's like

condition.Only further research will tell us what's what.

I've wondered myself is there isn't a sort of " acquired Borderline like

syndrome " that really is the result of childhood abuse but is not the same thing

at all as organic BPD and is also not merely a case of fleas.I've been meaning

to post something about the strange career of the ish psychiatrist RD Laing

who is still a very controversial figure for various reasons (although now

deceased).I haven't been up to it and I'm still not but in his work (some people

in the field would argue against calling what he did " his work " but anyway) he

treated some patients with supposed schizophrenia who in fact didn't have

organic shizophrenia at all but were in fact having delusional ideations that

were symbolic of the abuse they had endured in childhood--not actual

schizophrenic delusions; they had acquired a seeming sort of schizophrenia from

having been abused but didn't have the organic form of the disease and once they

were able to understand how their ideation symbolized their childhood abuse they

experienced improvement.That kind of insight wouldn't be possible with a case of

organic schizophrenia in the vast majority of cases.So I do wonder if people who

claim that they have recovered from BPD have some sort of acquired BPD like

syndrome from abuse but don't have organic BPD.

I'm sure there must be many shades of grey but that in a way similar

to how some forms of organic schizophrenia are completely disorganized,there

must be something like that with organic BPD as well--a genetically based

intractable form of the disease that cannot not be treated with simple talk

therapy,not even DBT.And that some of our nadas have a form of organic BPD that

*in its own way* is as devastating to the brain's proper functioning as forms of

disorganized schizophrenia (obviously a more severe condition than BPD)--but

what they have in common is that neither can be " cured " with psychoptherapy.

Personally I agree with you that it's the hard sciences that offer the

best hope of finding solutions to treat organic mental illness.

PS--Try to get your nada on a couple of waiting lists now/registered as having

applied for a place so you have that pre-arranged just in case she has to go to

the hospital soon--if she isn't on a list somewhere the hospital will choose

where she goes because I don't think they keep Alzheimer's type patients in the

actual hospital for very long and I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong)

that the hospital sends the patient to the first available care facility if they

aren't already registered with one,which could be anywhere.Not trying to be

alarmist,just wanting it to be less stressful if possible since it's already bad

enough...

>

> Thanks, . The support I get from you and the other members here

means a lot to me. And thanks for the information about getting our ducks in a

row ahead of time RE getting on a list for the good nursing care facilities in

nada's area when that time comes. I think Sister has already checked out some

of the less-intensive group-home type facilities in her area for those who are

still fairly independent and able to handle self-care, and has a couple in mind.

I too want to make sure that when the time comes that our nada needs physical

assistance/nursing care, we will select a facility for her that has a good

rating and that one or both of us can check up on her often enough to make sure

she's being treated well.

>

> I have less reservations about resuming contact with my nada if she agrees to

go on and stay on meds to stabilize her mood swings and eliminate the psychotic

breaks with reality, and if she is living in a group home. I would feel safer

that way.

>

> I really wonder if, eventually, it will be discovered that bpd and Alzheimers

are related in some way? But then, from what I've read even physical brain

injury can result in some bpd-like behaviors, too.

>

> I'm personally convinced that bpd must be a physical, organic brain impairment

of some kind, and those severely affected by it can't be cured by talk therapy

any more than someone with Alzheimers or a brain injury (or visual impairment)

can be cured by talk therapy. I also think that the genetic lottery is a bigger

factor than environment, and has specifically to do with being born with an

extremely, abnormally sensitive temperament ( " no emotional skin " ) so that to the

hyper-sensitive infant her entire world feels invalidating to her from day one.

>

> I'm also personally convinced that individuals who have been diagnosed with

bpd but then claim to have recovered from it either didn't have bpd to begin

with (just a really severe case of " fleas " ) or they are so very, very mildly

affected that they have the ability to control their disordered thoughts,

feelings and actions by sheer willpower. (sort of like that schizophrenic

mathematical genius in " A Beautiful Mind " , who eventually came to understand and

accept that he was hallucinating but consciously chose to ignore the

hallucinations; a stunningly unusual and remarkable achievement of will.)

>

> That's why my hopes are weighted in the arena of the hard sciences and such

things as gene therapy that have the potential to graft some " emotional skin "

back onto those born without it and relieve their suffering, and the suffering

such individuals cause.

>

> I realize that is not very politically correct of me, but, that's just my own

personal opinion and I don't expect everyone else to think the same way I do.

(But... I bet that it turns out that I'm right, eventually.)

>

> Thanks again.

>

> -Annie

[Guest guest]

Hi Annie, sorry to hear about this development. I don't know about you but I

find the decline into old age limitations and dementia on top of a lifetime of

dealing with their other mental illness just a staggering burden. For children

with more normal parents, the decline in old age is the *first* time they are

responsible for their parent. Imagine?!

My grandnada showed some signs of BPD and did eventually get Alzheimer's. As

the dementia took hold her ability to put a nice fake social mask that fooled

strangers broke down. There were more instances of her lashing out nastily at

people though to her credit she still managed to mostly keep it together till

the end. I think if she'd lived longer that wouldn't have been true.

Talking about your brain theories I just posted about my recent readings that

hoarding and Alzheimer's both involve decreased activity in different parts of

the cingulate gyrus in the brain. It is also involved in emotional control as

well so maybe it's the area that has trouble in BPD too.

Hugs,

>

> Sister let me know that our nada is starting to hallucinate more frequently

now. Yesterday nada became very upset and anxious and called the maintenance

man from her apartment complex to come and get rid of " all those people out in

the back of the building doing something suspicious " ... people who weren't

there. The maintenance man called Sister, worried that maybe he needed to call

an ambulance for nada because she was so upset. Sister phoned nada and talked

to her and calmed her down enough so that nada could go back to bed (this was

late at night.) Since nada is now also paranoid about Sister's intent and

motives RE her money, we're hoping that nada's sister will be able to talk nada

into seeing a psychiatrist. Sister knows that if either of us makes that

suggestion nada will automatically reject it.

>

> So, it seems highly likely that nada is now sliding rapidly into Alzheimer's.

Sister suggests a smaller group-living situation, in which 3 or 4 patients share

a home, get their own bedroom with their own furniture, and one care-taker to

look after them. Both of us think that will be the best solution for our nada

at this time. If she's having breaks with reality more frequently now, we don't

want her using the stove and perhaps walking off and leaving the burner on. She

doesn't need physical nursing care yet, but Sister and I think she will do

better with other people around and a care-giver who can keep an eye on them.

>

> The only catch is to get nada to agree to the psychiatric evaluation and agree

to the group home living arrangement. Sister and I are counting on nada's

sister, our aunt, to help with persuading nada that she will be happier with

those arrangements. Our nada is notorious for asking Sister or me for advice,

then blaming us when the whatever it is doesn't work to her satisfaction, or

changing her mind, etc. So, this may take a long time.

>

> If she hallucinates and becomes hysterical again to the point where the

maintenance man or a neighbor calls an ambulance, then, the matter will be out

of nada's hands.

>

> I feel sorry for nada when she is genuinely distressed, its sad; its just

fucking sad.

>

> With the encroaching Alzheimers, the behaviors we are seeing now are just a

more extreme or concentrated form of nada's core personality disorder. What

control she did have over her thoughts and feelings is dissolving away; she's

showing her negative side to other people besides Sister and me, now. Sister

shared some things with me that have occurred over the last 10 years or so that

I didn't know about; incidents with neighbors and with her doctor in which nada

lashed out and was raging at them she way she used to only do with us.

>

> I believe the Alzheimers is exposing nada's bedrock personality-disordered,

skewed, cognitively-distorted, negative thinking and feeling more often now.

She was always so disappointed in us, didn't trust us (oh, how often was I shown

that she didn't trust me!) resented us, felt we owed her (we were always selfish

ingrates) her feelings of superiority and even contempt towards us, etc., but

she was able to cover up those feelings more of the time. Now, she can't.

>

> Well, that's all my news for now. Its just a matter of taking it one day at a

time, I guess, and hoping that nada herself will decide that its better for her

to be in a group home before she does something scary or dangerous that hurts

her or other people.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Annie, sorry to hear about this development. I don't know about you but I

find the decline into old age limitations and dementia on top of a lifetime of

dealing with their other mental illness just a staggering burden. For children

with more normal parents, the decline in old age is the *first* time they are

responsible for their parent. Imagine?!

My grandnada showed some signs of BPD and did eventually get Alzheimer's. As

the dementia took hold her ability to put a nice fake social mask that fooled

strangers broke down. There were more instances of her lashing out nastily at

people though to her credit she still managed to mostly keep it together till

the end. I think if she'd lived longer that wouldn't have been true.

Talking about your brain theories I just posted about my recent readings that

hoarding and Alzheimer's both involve decreased activity in different parts of

the cingulate gyrus in the brain. It is also involved in emotional control as

well so maybe it's the area that has trouble in BPD too.

Hugs,

>

> Sister let me know that our nada is starting to hallucinate more frequently

now. Yesterday nada became very upset and anxious and called the maintenance

man from her apartment complex to come and get rid of " all those people out in

the back of the building doing something suspicious " ... people who weren't

there. The maintenance man called Sister, worried that maybe he needed to call

an ambulance for nada because she was so upset. Sister phoned nada and talked

to her and calmed her down enough so that nada could go back to bed (this was

late at night.) Since nada is now also paranoid about Sister's intent and

motives RE her money, we're hoping that nada's sister will be able to talk nada

into seeing a psychiatrist. Sister knows that if either of us makes that

suggestion nada will automatically reject it.

>

> So, it seems highly likely that nada is now sliding rapidly into Alzheimer's.

Sister suggests a smaller group-living situation, in which 3 or 4 patients share

a home, get their own bedroom with their own furniture, and one care-taker to

look after them. Both of us think that will be the best solution for our nada

at this time. If she's having breaks with reality more frequently now, we don't

want her using the stove and perhaps walking off and leaving the burner on. She

doesn't need physical nursing care yet, but Sister and I think she will do

better with other people around and a care-giver who can keep an eye on them.

>

> The only catch is to get nada to agree to the psychiatric evaluation and agree

to the group home living arrangement. Sister and I are counting on nada's

sister, our aunt, to help with persuading nada that she will be happier with

those arrangements. Our nada is notorious for asking Sister or me for advice,

then blaming us when the whatever it is doesn't work to her satisfaction, or

changing her mind, etc. So, this may take a long time.

>

> If she hallucinates and becomes hysterical again to the point where the

maintenance man or a neighbor calls an ambulance, then, the matter will be out

of nada's hands.

>

> I feel sorry for nada when she is genuinely distressed, its sad; its just

fucking sad.

>

> With the encroaching Alzheimers, the behaviors we are seeing now are just a

more extreme or concentrated form of nada's core personality disorder. What

control she did have over her thoughts and feelings is dissolving away; she's

showing her negative side to other people besides Sister and me, now. Sister

shared some things with me that have occurred over the last 10 years or so that

I didn't know about; incidents with neighbors and with her doctor in which nada

lashed out and was raging at them she way she used to only do with us.

>

> I believe the Alzheimers is exposing nada's bedrock personality-disordered,

skewed, cognitively-distorted, negative thinking and feeling more often now.

She was always so disappointed in us, didn't trust us (oh, how often was I shown

that she didn't trust me!) resented us, felt we owed her (we were always selfish

ingrates) her feelings of superiority and even contempt towards us, etc., but

she was able to cover up those feelings more of the time. Now, she can't.

>

> Well, that's all my news for now. Its just a matter of taking it one day at a

time, I guess, and hoping that nada herself will decide that its better for her

to be in a group home before she does something scary or dangerous that hurts

her or other people.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

First, a Happy New Year to all, and may the coming year bring all of us and our

families joy, peace and healing.

Second, thank you, . I think the full emotional impact of this hasn't hit

me yet, I'm still kind of numb.

Yes, I read your earlier post RE the way Alzheimers affects the brain with great

interest. It would seem that Alzheimers (like alcohol) can start by destroying

or crippling the executive function of the brain. All the negativity, distorted

thinking, paranoia, fear and panic that is BPD (and/or other pd traits too, in

some cases) just come spilling out because that more rational part of the brain

is dissolving. As though Alzheimers acts like a dissolving agent on the brain.

The memory goes, the ability to recognize other people you know well, knowing

where you are or what year it is, the senses go, and then finally the parts of

the brain concerned with keeping the body alive are eaten away. Its just so

incredibly sad.

-Annie

> >

> > Sister let me know that our nada is starting to hallucinate more frequently

now. Yesterday nada became very upset and anxious and called the maintenance

man from her apartment complex to come and get rid of " all those people out in

the back of the building doing something suspicious " ... people who weren't

there. The maintenance man called Sister, worried that maybe he needed to call

an ambulance for nada because she was so upset. Sister phoned nada and talked

to her and calmed her down enough so that nada could go back to bed (this was

late at night.) Since nada is now also paranoid about Sister's intent and

motives RE her money, we're hoping that nada's sister will be able to talk nada

into seeing a psychiatrist. Sister knows that if either of us makes that

suggestion nada will automatically reject it.

> >

> > So, it seems highly likely that nada is now sliding rapidly into

Alzheimer's. Sister suggests a smaller group-living situation, in which 3 or 4

patients share a home, get their own bedroom with their own furniture, and one

care-taker to look after them. Both of us think that will be the best solution

for our nada at this time. If she's having breaks with reality more frequently

now, we don't want her using the stove and perhaps walking off and leaving the

burner on. She doesn't need physical nursing care yet, but Sister and I think

she will do better with other people around and a care-giver who can keep an eye

on them.

> >

> > The only catch is to get nada to agree to the psychiatric evaluation and

agree to the group home living arrangement. Sister and I are counting on nada's

sister, our aunt, to help with persuading nada that she will be happier with

those arrangements. Our nada is notorious for asking Sister or me for advice,

then blaming us when the whatever it is doesn't work to her satisfaction, or

changing her mind, etc. So, this may take a long time.

> >

> > If she hallucinates and becomes hysterical again to the point where the

maintenance man or a neighbor calls an ambulance, then, the matter will be out

of nada's hands.

> >

> > I feel sorry for nada when she is genuinely distressed, its sad; its just

fucking sad.

> >

> > With the encroaching Alzheimers, the behaviors we are seeing now are just a

more extreme or concentrated form of nada's core personality disorder. What

control she did have over her thoughts and feelings is dissolving away; she's

showing her negative side to other people besides Sister and me, now. Sister

shared some things with me that have occurred over the last 10 years or so that

I didn't know about; incidents with neighbors and with her doctor in which nada

lashed out and was raging at them she way she used to only do with us.

> >

> > I believe the Alzheimers is exposing nada's bedrock personality-disordered,

skewed, cognitively-distorted, negative thinking and feeling more often now.

She was always so disappointed in us, didn't trust us (oh, how often was I shown

that she didn't trust me!) resented us, felt we owed her (we were always selfish

ingrates) her feelings of superiority and even contempt towards us, etc., but

she was able to cover up those feelings more of the time. Now, she can't.

> >

> > Well, that's all my news for now. Its just a matter of taking it one day at

a time, I guess, and hoping that nada herself will decide that its better for

her to be in a group home before she does something scary or dangerous that

hurts her or other people.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

First, a Happy New Year to all, and may the coming year bring all of us and our

families joy, peace and healing.

Second, thank you, . I think the full emotional impact of this hasn't hit

me yet, I'm still kind of numb.

Yes, I read your earlier post RE the way Alzheimers affects the brain with great

interest. It would seem that Alzheimers (like alcohol) can start by destroying

or crippling the executive function of the brain. All the negativity, distorted

thinking, paranoia, fear and panic that is BPD (and/or other pd traits too, in

some cases) just come spilling out because that more rational part of the brain

is dissolving. As though Alzheimers acts like a dissolving agent on the brain.

The memory goes, the ability to recognize other people you know well, knowing

where you are or what year it is, the senses go, and then finally the parts of

the brain concerned with keeping the body alive are eaten away. Its just so

incredibly sad.

-Annie

> >

> > Sister let me know that our nada is starting to hallucinate more frequently

now. Yesterday nada became very upset and anxious and called the maintenance

man from her apartment complex to come and get rid of " all those people out in

the back of the building doing something suspicious " ... people who weren't

there. The maintenance man called Sister, worried that maybe he needed to call

an ambulance for nada because she was so upset. Sister phoned nada and talked

to her and calmed her down enough so that nada could go back to bed (this was

late at night.) Since nada is now also paranoid about Sister's intent and

motives RE her money, we're hoping that nada's sister will be able to talk nada

into seeing a psychiatrist. Sister knows that if either of us makes that

suggestion nada will automatically reject it.

> >

> > So, it seems highly likely that nada is now sliding rapidly into

Alzheimer's. Sister suggests a smaller group-living situation, in which 3 or 4

patients share a home, get their own bedroom with their own furniture, and one

care-taker to look after them. Both of us think that will be the best solution

for our nada at this time. If she's having breaks with reality more frequently

now, we don't want her using the stove and perhaps walking off and leaving the

burner on. She doesn't need physical nursing care yet, but Sister and I think

she will do better with other people around and a care-giver who can keep an eye

on them.

> >

> > The only catch is to get nada to agree to the psychiatric evaluation and

agree to the group home living arrangement. Sister and I are counting on nada's

sister, our aunt, to help with persuading nada that she will be happier with

those arrangements. Our nada is notorious for asking Sister or me for advice,

then blaming us when the whatever it is doesn't work to her satisfaction, or

changing her mind, etc. So, this may take a long time.

> >

> > If she hallucinates and becomes hysterical again to the point where the

maintenance man or a neighbor calls an ambulance, then, the matter will be out

of nada's hands.

> >

> > I feel sorry for nada when she is genuinely distressed, its sad; its just

fucking sad.

> >

> > With the encroaching Alzheimers, the behaviors we are seeing now are just a

more extreme or concentrated form of nada's core personality disorder. What

control she did have over her thoughts and feelings is dissolving away; she's

showing her negative side to other people besides Sister and me, now. Sister

shared some things with me that have occurred over the last 10 years or so that

I didn't know about; incidents with neighbors and with her doctor in which nada

lashed out and was raging at them she way she used to only do with us.

> >

> > I believe the Alzheimers is exposing nada's bedrock personality-disordered,

skewed, cognitively-distorted, negative thinking and feeling more often now.

She was always so disappointed in us, didn't trust us (oh, how often was I shown

that she didn't trust me!) resented us, felt we owed her (we were always selfish

ingrates) her feelings of superiority and even contempt towards us, etc., but

she was able to cover up those feelings more of the time. Now, she can't.

> >

> > Well, that's all my news for now. Its just a matter of taking it one day at

a time, I guess, and hoping that nada herself will decide that its better for

her to be in a group home before she does something scary or dangerous that

hurts her or other people.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

First, a Happy New Year to all, and may the coming year bring all of us and our

families joy, peace and healing.

Second, thank you, . I think the full emotional impact of this hasn't hit

me yet, I'm still kind of numb.

Yes, I read your earlier post RE the way Alzheimers affects the brain with great

interest. It would seem that Alzheimers (like alcohol) can start by destroying

or crippling the executive function of the brain. All the negativity, distorted

thinking, paranoia, fear and panic that is BPD (and/or other pd traits too, in

some cases) just come spilling out because that more rational part of the brain

is dissolving. As though Alzheimers acts like a dissolving agent on the brain.

The memory goes, the ability to recognize other people you know well, knowing

where you are or what year it is, the senses go, and then finally the parts of

the brain concerned with keeping the body alive are eaten away. Its just so

incredibly sad.

-Annie

> >

> > Sister let me know that our nada is starting to hallucinate more frequently

now. Yesterday nada became very upset and anxious and called the maintenance

man from her apartment complex to come and get rid of " all those people out in

the back of the building doing something suspicious " ... people who weren't

there. The maintenance man called Sister, worried that maybe he needed to call

an ambulance for nada because she was so upset. Sister phoned nada and talked

to her and calmed her down enough so that nada could go back to bed (this was

late at night.) Since nada is now also paranoid about Sister's intent and

motives RE her money, we're hoping that nada's sister will be able to talk nada

into seeing a psychiatrist. Sister knows that if either of us makes that

suggestion nada will automatically reject it.

> >

> > So, it seems highly likely that nada is now sliding rapidly into

Alzheimer's. Sister suggests a smaller group-living situation, in which 3 or 4

patients share a home, get their own bedroom with their own furniture, and one

care-taker to look after them. Both of us think that will be the best solution

for our nada at this time. If she's having breaks with reality more frequently

now, we don't want her using the stove and perhaps walking off and leaving the

burner on. She doesn't need physical nursing care yet, but Sister and I think

she will do better with other people around and a care-giver who can keep an eye

on them.

> >

> > The only catch is to get nada to agree to the psychiatric evaluation and

agree to the group home living arrangement. Sister and I are counting on nada's

sister, our aunt, to help with persuading nada that she will be happier with

those arrangements. Our nada is notorious for asking Sister or me for advice,

then blaming us when the whatever it is doesn't work to her satisfaction, or

changing her mind, etc. So, this may take a long time.

> >

> > If she hallucinates and becomes hysterical again to the point where the

maintenance man or a neighbor calls an ambulance, then, the matter will be out

of nada's hands.

> >

> > I feel sorry for nada when she is genuinely distressed, its sad; its just

fucking sad.

> >

> > With the encroaching Alzheimers, the behaviors we are seeing now are just a

more extreme or concentrated form of nada's core personality disorder. What

control she did have over her thoughts and feelings is dissolving away; she's

showing her negative side to other people besides Sister and me, now. Sister

shared some things with me that have occurred over the last 10 years or so that

I didn't know about; incidents with neighbors and with her doctor in which nada

lashed out and was raging at them she way she used to only do with us.

> >

> > I believe the Alzheimers is exposing nada's bedrock personality-disordered,

skewed, cognitively-distorted, negative thinking and feeling more often now.

She was always so disappointed in us, didn't trust us (oh, how often was I shown

that she didn't trust me!) resented us, felt we owed her (we were always selfish

ingrates) her feelings of superiority and even contempt towards us, etc., but

she was able to cover up those feelings more of the time. Now, she can't.

> >

> > Well, that's all my news for now. Its just a matter of taking it one day at

a time, I guess, and hoping that nada herself will decide that its better for

her to be in a group home before she does something scary or dangerous that

hurts her or other people.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the advice RE getting on waiting lists now for the good elder care

facilities that can care for Alzheimers patients, . I am passing that

along to Sister, who has already started looking into that step.

I think the speculations you've made are highly intelligent and very intriguing

RE the possibility that there is a non-organic (acquired) form of bpd caused by

an abusive environment: " learned " behaviors that are more amenable to treatment

through therapy, *as opposed to* an organic/genetic and intractable form of bpd.

Similarly, I too have speculated that future studies will probably show that

there is more than one way that bpd can occur.

I've even wondered if its possible that my nada fell on her head as an infant or

small child and acquired an *unknown and untreated* brain injury? Her foo is SO

*non* pd'ed, and there is such a lack of personality disorder or alcoholism or

criminal, irresponsible behavior going back generations in my nada's extended

families (to the point of being boringly un-colorful) that it really makes me

wonder. Or, what if she had an extremely high temperature as a child that

couldn't be brought down quickly, so high that it damaged her brain? Or a

bacterial infection, or something? If the predisposition to develop bpd is

genetic, then the genes are so recessive that its mind-boggling, at least in my

nada's case.

The research on organic vs non-organic schizophrenia sounds really fascinating

and relevant; thanks for posting about that and about that (now deceased) doctor

who was pursuing that avenue of research.

Although at this point in time my nada can't benefit from it, I remain both

fascinated and hopeful that future research will discover better treatments,

earlier detection and possible cures for this horrible thing called personality

disorder, and mental illness.

-Annie

> >

> > Thanks, . The support I get from you and the other members here

means a lot to me. And thanks for the information about getting our ducks in a

row ahead of time RE getting on a list for the good nursing care facilities in

nada's area when that time comes. I think Sister has already checked out some

of the less-intensive group-home type facilities in her area for those who are

still fairly independent and able to handle self-care, and has a couple in mind.

I too want to make sure that when the time comes that our nada needs physical

assistance/nursing care, we will select a facility for her that has a good

rating and that one or both of us can check up on her often enough to make sure

she's being treated well.

> >

> > I have less reservations about resuming contact with my nada if she agrees

to go on and stay on meds to stabilize her mood swings and eliminate the

psychotic breaks with reality, and if she is living in a group home. I would

feel safer that way.

> >

> > I really wonder if, eventually, it will be discovered that bpd and

Alzheimers are related in some way? But then, from what I've read even physical

brain injury can result in some bpd-like behaviors, too.

> >

> > I'm personally convinced that bpd must be a physical, organic brain

impairment of some kind, and those severely affected by it can't be cured by

talk therapy any more than someone with Alzheimers or a brain injury (or visual

impairment) can be cured by talk therapy. I also think that the genetic lottery

is a bigger factor than environment, and has specifically to do with being born

with an extremely, abnormally sensitive temperament ( " no emotional skin " ) so

that to the hyper-sensitive infant her entire world feels invalidating to her

from day one.

> >

> > I'm also personally convinced that individuals who have been diagnosed with

bpd but then claim to have recovered from it either didn't have bpd to begin

with (just a really severe case of " fleas " ) or they are so very, very mildly

affected that they have the ability to control their disordered thoughts,

feelings and actions by sheer willpower. (sort of like that schizophrenic

mathematical genius in " A Beautiful Mind " , who eventually came to understand and

accept that he was hallucinating but consciously chose to ignore the

hallucinations; a stunningly unusual and remarkable achievement of will.)

> >

> > That's why my hopes are weighted in the arena of the hard sciences and such

things as gene therapy that have the potential to graft some " emotional skin "

back onto those born without it and relieve their suffering, and the suffering

such individuals cause.

> >

> > I realize that is not very politically correct of me, but, that's just my

own personal opinion and I don't expect everyone else to think the same way I

do. (But... I bet that it turns out that I'm right, eventually.)

> >

> > Thanks again.

> >

> > -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the advice RE getting on waiting lists now for the good elder care

facilities that can care for Alzheimers patients, . I am passing that

along to Sister, who has already started looking into that step.

I think the speculations you've made are highly intelligent and very intriguing

RE the possibility that there is a non-organic (acquired) form of bpd caused by

an abusive environment: " learned " behaviors that are more amenable to treatment

through therapy, *as opposed to* an organic/genetic and intractable form of bpd.

Similarly, I too have speculated that future studies will probably show that

there is more than one way that bpd can occur.

I've even wondered if its possible that my nada fell on her head as an infant or

small child and acquired an *unknown and untreated* brain injury? Her foo is SO

*non* pd'ed, and there is such a lack of personality disorder or alcoholism or

criminal, irresponsible behavior going back generations in my nada's extended

families (to the point of being boringly un-colorful) that it really makes me

wonder. Or, what if she had an extremely high temperature as a child that

couldn't be brought down quickly, so high that it damaged her brain? Or a

bacterial infection, or something? If the predisposition to develop bpd is

genetic, then the genes are so recessive that its mind-boggling, at least in my

nada's case.

The research on organic vs non-organic schizophrenia sounds really fascinating

and relevant; thanks for posting about that and about that (now deceased) doctor

who was pursuing that avenue of research.

Although at this point in time my nada can't benefit from it, I remain both

fascinated and hopeful that future research will discover better treatments,

earlier detection and possible cures for this horrible thing called personality

disorder, and mental illness.

-Annie

> >

> > Thanks, . The support I get from you and the other members here

means a lot to me. And thanks for the information about getting our ducks in a

row ahead of time RE getting on a list for the good nursing care facilities in

nada's area when that time comes. I think Sister has already checked out some

of the less-intensive group-home type facilities in her area for those who are

still fairly independent and able to handle self-care, and has a couple in mind.

I too want to make sure that when the time comes that our nada needs physical

assistance/nursing care, we will select a facility for her that has a good

rating and that one or both of us can check up on her often enough to make sure

she's being treated well.

> >

> > I have less reservations about resuming contact with my nada if she agrees

to go on and stay on meds to stabilize her mood swings and eliminate the

psychotic breaks with reality, and if she is living in a group home. I would

feel safer that way.

> >

> > I really wonder if, eventually, it will be discovered that bpd and

Alzheimers are related in some way? But then, from what I've read even physical

brain injury can result in some bpd-like behaviors, too.

> >

> > I'm personally convinced that bpd must be a physical, organic brain

impairment of some kind, and those severely affected by it can't be cured by

talk therapy any more than someone with Alzheimers or a brain injury (or visual

impairment) can be cured by talk therapy. I also think that the genetic lottery

is a bigger factor than environment, and has specifically to do with being born

with an extremely, abnormally sensitive temperament ( " no emotional skin " ) so

that to the hyper-sensitive infant her entire world feels invalidating to her

from day one.

> >

> > I'm also personally convinced that individuals who have been diagnosed with

bpd but then claim to have recovered from it either didn't have bpd to begin

with (just a really severe case of " fleas " ) or they are so very, very mildly

affected that they have the ability to control their disordered thoughts,

feelings and actions by sheer willpower. (sort of like that schizophrenic

mathematical genius in " A Beautiful Mind " , who eventually came to understand and

accept that he was hallucinating but consciously chose to ignore the

hallucinations; a stunningly unusual and remarkable achievement of will.)

> >

> > That's why my hopes are weighted in the arena of the hard sciences and such

things as gene therapy that have the potential to graft some " emotional skin "

back onto those born without it and relieve their suffering, and the suffering

such individuals cause.

> >

> > I realize that is not very politically correct of me, but, that's just my

own personal opinion and I don't expect everyone else to think the same way I

do. (But... I bet that it turns out that I'm right, eventually.)

> >

> > Thanks again.

> >

> > -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the advice RE getting on waiting lists now for the good elder care

facilities that can care for Alzheimers patients, . I am passing that

along to Sister, who has already started looking into that step.

I think the speculations you've made are highly intelligent and very intriguing

RE the possibility that there is a non-organic (acquired) form of bpd caused by

an abusive environment: " learned " behaviors that are more amenable to treatment

through therapy, *as opposed to* an organic/genetic and intractable form of bpd.

Similarly, I too have speculated that future studies will probably show that

there is more than one way that bpd can occur.

I've even wondered if its possible that my nada fell on her head as an infant or

small child and acquired an *unknown and untreated* brain injury? Her foo is SO

*non* pd'ed, and there is such a lack of personality disorder or alcoholism or

criminal, irresponsible behavior going back generations in my nada's extended

families (to the point of being boringly un-colorful) that it really makes me

wonder. Or, what if she had an extremely high temperature as a child that

couldn't be brought down quickly, so high that it damaged her brain? Or a

bacterial infection, or something? If the predisposition to develop bpd is

genetic, then the genes are so recessive that its mind-boggling, at least in my

nada's case.

The research on organic vs non-organic schizophrenia sounds really fascinating

and relevant; thanks for posting about that and about that (now deceased) doctor

who was pursuing that avenue of research.

Although at this point in time my nada can't benefit from it, I remain both

fascinated and hopeful that future research will discover better treatments,

earlier detection and possible cures for this horrible thing called personality

disorder, and mental illness.

-Annie

> >

> > Thanks, . The support I get from you and the other members here

means a lot to me. And thanks for the information about getting our ducks in a

row ahead of time RE getting on a list for the good nursing care facilities in

nada's area when that time comes. I think Sister has already checked out some

of the less-intensive group-home type facilities in her area for those who are

still fairly independent and able to handle self-care, and has a couple in mind.

I too want to make sure that when the time comes that our nada needs physical

assistance/nursing care, we will select a facility for her that has a good

rating and that one or both of us can check up on her often enough to make sure

she's being treated well.

> >

> > I have less reservations about resuming contact with my nada if she agrees

to go on and stay on meds to stabilize her mood swings and eliminate the

psychotic breaks with reality, and if she is living in a group home. I would

feel safer that way.

> >

> > I really wonder if, eventually, it will be discovered that bpd and

Alzheimers are related in some way? But then, from what I've read even physical

brain injury can result in some bpd-like behaviors, too.

> >

> > I'm personally convinced that bpd must be a physical, organic brain

impairment of some kind, and those severely affected by it can't be cured by

talk therapy any more than someone with Alzheimers or a brain injury (or visual

impairment) can be cured by talk therapy. I also think that the genetic lottery

is a bigger factor than environment, and has specifically to do with being born

with an extremely, abnormally sensitive temperament ( " no emotional skin " ) so

that to the hyper-sensitive infant her entire world feels invalidating to her

from day one.

> >

> > I'm also personally convinced that individuals who have been diagnosed with

bpd but then claim to have recovered from it either didn't have bpd to begin

with (just a really severe case of " fleas " ) or they are so very, very mildly

affected that they have the ability to control their disordered thoughts,

feelings and actions by sheer willpower. (sort of like that schizophrenic

mathematical genius in " A Beautiful Mind " , who eventually came to understand and

accept that he was hallucinating but consciously chose to ignore the

hallucinations; a stunningly unusual and remarkable achievement of will.)

> >

> > That's why my hopes are weighted in the arena of the hard sciences and such

things as gene therapy that have the potential to graft some " emotional skin "

back onto those born without it and relieve their suffering, and the suffering

such individuals cause.

> >

> > I realize that is not very politically correct of me, but, that's just my

own personal opinion and I don't expect everyone else to think the same way I

do. (But... I bet that it turns out that I'm right, eventually.)

> >

> > Thanks again.

> >

> > -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

APD is like this. There is a form with severe organic brain dysfunction,

probably congenital, and a learned form without.

If you look up APD on wiki, you can read about it.

[Guest guest]

APD is like this. There is a form with severe organic brain dysfunction,

probably congenital, and a learned form without.

If you look up APD on wiki, you can read about it.

[Guest guest]

APD is like this. There is a form with severe organic brain dysfunction,

probably congenital, and a learned form without.

If you look up APD on wiki, you can read about it.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for that; I love what you wrote, that resonates with me totally. Yes,

the symptoms you describe are nearly identical to my nada's: (seeing/hearing

people that aren't there, more blatant paranoia and suspiciousness). It never

ceases to amaze me when such eerie similarities from nada to nada are posted.

And I think you're right: its as though our nadas have had a more subtle, covert

form of dementia for our whole lives, and now its simply more overt, more

concentrated, more " exposed " and more believable or acceptable because it

happens to so many people.

Its got to be true, I swear: bpd must be some form of dementia, like " Alzheimers

Lite " . I'm willing to bet money on it.

I'm not an only child, I have a younger Sister, but I live across country from

my nada. So its as though for all practical purposes Sister is an only child RE

dealing with our nada, now. (I am Sister's emotional support and validate her

experiences, though.) Sister chose to settle herself and her son (a young teen

at the time) fairly near nada (less than an hour away) so that she could keep

an eye on nada, help nada out, visit her, etc., and has been kicked in the teeth

repeatedly (then begged for forgiveness, then honeymoon period, then buildup of

irritability, then another explosive rage & another kick in the teeth, etc.) for

her selfless act of compassion for the last 14± years since dad died.

Mental illness: its just so not freaking fair, and so freaking sad.

-Annie

>

> Hugs to you, Annie. We are in the exact same situation except that I am an

only child who lives hundreds of miles away from BPD Mom, struggling to figure

out what to do next. Had a visit there last month (horrifying, toxic, did I

mention horrifying) and saw the hallucinations in action. She " saw " and " heard "

roomsful of people, and people " outside the window, " and believed that my

husband was trying to steal her house. All this and more.

>

> Before our visit, I had attempted to arrange a doctor's appointment, but her

doctor had REFUSED this, saying that he had seen her just a few weeks previous

and she was " fine, " she was " her same old self, " and that I should be " proud " of

her for trying so hard given her many reasons for depression. Argh!!!! After my

visit, I re-contacted him again, told him about all her shocking symptoms, and

THEN he said okay, make an appointment for her -- but by that time I was already

home, and could not force her to go. An appointment was made. She refused to go.

Repeat.

>

> I've made another appointment for a few weeks hence. I believe that by that

time, she will no longer be cognizant enough to resist. It feels horrific typing

this. Here we are, having spent all our lives dealing with these individuals who

basically ruined everything for us, or nearly did, unwittingly or not, but

because of a physiological disease they had. And now -- here comes another brain

disease on top of the other brain disease. They went from being mean, paranoid,

delusional, self-loathing, and relentlessly needy to being meaner, more

paranoid, more delusional, etc.

>

> How interesting that society accepts Alzheimer's and other forms of senile

dementia (there are many forms) and recognizes it, yet fails to recognize BPD.

Oh now they'll say, " Your mother has a problem. " Now? Now??? Now that most of my

life was ruined because of that other " invisible " problem????

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for that; I love what you wrote, that resonates with me totally. Yes,

the symptoms you describe are nearly identical to my nada's: (seeing/hearing

people that aren't there, more blatant paranoia and suspiciousness). It never

ceases to amaze me when such eerie similarities from nada to nada are posted.

And I think you're right: its as though our nadas have had a more subtle, covert

form of dementia for our whole lives, and now its simply more overt, more

concentrated, more " exposed " and more believable or acceptable because it

happens to so many people.

Its got to be true, I swear: bpd must be some form of dementia, like " Alzheimers

Lite " . I'm willing to bet money on it.

I'm not an only child, I have a younger Sister, but I live across country from

my nada. So its as though for all practical purposes Sister is an only child RE

dealing with our nada, now. (I am Sister's emotional support and validate her

experiences, though.) Sister chose to settle herself and her son (a young teen

at the time) fairly near nada (less than an hour away) so that she could keep

an eye on nada, help nada out, visit her, etc., and has been kicked in the teeth

repeatedly (then begged for forgiveness, then honeymoon period, then buildup of

irritability, then another explosive rage & another kick in the teeth, etc.) for

her selfless act of compassion for the last 14± years since dad died.

Mental illness: its just so not freaking fair, and so freaking sad.

-Annie

>

> Hugs to you, Annie. We are in the exact same situation except that I am an

only child who lives hundreds of miles away from BPD Mom, struggling to figure

out what to do next. Had a visit there last month (horrifying, toxic, did I

mention horrifying) and saw the hallucinations in action. She " saw " and " heard "

roomsful of people, and people " outside the window, " and believed that my

husband was trying to steal her house. All this and more.

>

> Before our visit, I had attempted to arrange a doctor's appointment, but her

doctor had REFUSED this, saying that he had seen her just a few weeks previous

and she was " fine, " she was " her same old self, " and that I should be " proud " of

her for trying so hard given her many reasons for depression. Argh!!!! After my

visit, I re-contacted him again, told him about all her shocking symptoms, and

THEN he said okay, make an appointment for her -- but by that time I was already

home, and could not force her to go. An appointment was made. She refused to go.

Repeat.

>

> I've made another appointment for a few weeks hence. I believe that by that

time, she will no longer be cognizant enough to resist. It feels horrific typing

this. Here we are, having spent all our lives dealing with these individuals who

basically ruined everything for us, or nearly did, unwittingly or not, but

because of a physiological disease they had. And now -- here comes another brain

disease on top of the other brain disease. They went from being mean, paranoid,

delusional, self-loathing, and relentlessly needy to being meaner, more

paranoid, more delusional, etc.

>

> How interesting that society accepts Alzheimer's and other forms of senile

dementia (there are many forms) and recognizes it, yet fails to recognize BPD.

Oh now they'll say, " Your mother has a problem. " Now? Now??? Now that most of my

life was ruined because of that other " invisible " problem????

>