Re: FOG in action

[Guest guest]

Doug,

Agh, absolutely.

I am currently a 21 year-old junior in college, and because my BP mother has

somehow arranged my finances so that even loans taken out in my name are in her

account, I am completely dependent upon her for finances. Whenever I need

something that my minimum wage job's paychecks don't cover--such as gas, rent,

bills--I have to " ask " her. Her " generosity " is entirely based upon what mood

she's in, which, as most KO's know, is utterly unpredictable, causing me a great

deal of stress at any given moment. Furthermore, because, as I said, she has

control (which she loves, of course) over something like 95% of my finances, if

I do anything " wrong " in her eyes, I can and have been completely cut off from

the basic necessities. This Fear plays a large role in my life for many reasons;

among the less obvious, that I live some distance from my closest friends, and

if she chooses not to " have enough money this week, " I am helpless to reconnect

with the larger portion of my support system (with which she has also tried to

disconnect me more overtly in the past).

GUILT is also a major player in our " relationship. " My parents have been

divorced for over three quarters of my life now, and though my father is more a

fada than not, at the very least he's not a BP. Once I realized my nada was the

largest factor instigating my Major Depressive Disorder and suicidal thoughts, I

knew I had to move out and take refuge anywhere available. My father's house was

open to me, so I made a secret agreement to go there for the remainder of my

high school years. I didn't know how to break it to my nada, as I knew fully

well by then that rage, sorrow, guilt, obligation, and all the other BP tools of

manipulation would follow in an unpredictable order. Therefore, I accidentally

let it slip during some outdoor activities in which my step-father, brother,

nada and I were involved. She had been ridiculing me for suggesting that I would

have enough money for some thing or another, when I blurted out that I planned

on getting a job. She laughed and asked me where I thought I could do that. I

quickly said in (city where my father lives), as I was moving there. Everything

went utterly silent and no one moved until my mother stormed off, into the

house, and refused to speak to me. Later, she threatened to keep my car (which

was in my name!), demanded to know why I hadn't asked her if I " could, " and

finally, after a few weeks of sulking and raging, declared, " That's fine. My

life is full enough without you. "

She also had a wonderful habit of making me feel like privacy and personal space

were guilt-worthy. She was never happy if there was something in my head that

she didn't know, a white lie I had told, a journal under my bed with a key, my

laptop with a password, or a refused hug. For the longest time, I felt like a

terrible person just for having thoughts different from hers! But finally, as I

said, I locked down my computer (she had already gone through it before),

somehow managed to detach, and proceeded to lie about anything and anything

necessary to keep my distance while she forced herself on me. There was actually

a time, DIRECTLY after a screaming match, that she switched moods, wanted pity

and to be seen as the victim, and attempted to hug me. I was furious,

heartbroken, and very much upset, so I pushed her away. LIKE A REFLEX, she

pulled her hand back and seemed to threaten to backhand me!! I had never been

abused by her, so despite my submissive, guilt-ridden KO ways, I was so

surprised that I cried, " You think you can hit me to get me to hug you?! "

Needless to say, after that, I became still more detached, and the day I moved

out was not a moment too soon.

Hope some of this might contribute!

Elle

>

> Many of you old timers, and I don t mean your age ladies, are

> familiar with the concept of FOG : Fear Obligation Guilt that BP parents

> used or use to control and manipulate us.

>

>

> Some of you are also aware that I m writing a book with a working title

> Orphans of the FOG, about the experience and effect of being the child

> of a BP.

>

> I m working currently on a section about manipulation and control. I

> would love to hear from you guys examples of FOG in your life and

> relationship with nada. Ways in which she guilts or scares you, forces

> you to do what you don t want to, or forces you to do what you would do

> anyway, and thus take the joy from it.

>

> This can be current, when you were growing up, or fleas that still drive

> you today, which you realize were from FOG used by nada all your life,

> or years ago. Even if Nada is dead, as some of us have come to find

> out, it ceases to be about her and what she does, but about us and what

> we will choose to do, or not. The FOG stays with us KO s, long after

> we are orphans.

>

> Look forward to hearing your FOG stories.

>

>

> Doug

>

[Guest guest]

Doug,

Agh, absolutely.

I am currently a 21 year-old junior in college, and because my BP mother has

somehow arranged my finances so that even loans taken out in my name are in her

account, I am completely dependent upon her for finances. Whenever I need

something that my minimum wage job's paychecks don't cover--such as gas, rent,

bills--I have to " ask " her. Her " generosity " is entirely based upon what mood

she's in, which, as most KO's know, is utterly unpredictable, causing me a great

deal of stress at any given moment. Furthermore, because, as I said, she has

control (which she loves, of course) over something like 95% of my finances, if

I do anything " wrong " in her eyes, I can and have been completely cut off from

the basic necessities. This Fear plays a large role in my life for many reasons;

among the less obvious, that I live some distance from my closest friends, and

if she chooses not to " have enough money this week, " I am helpless to reconnect

with the larger portion of my support system (with which she has also tried to

disconnect me more overtly in the past).

GUILT is also a major player in our " relationship. " My parents have been

divorced for over three quarters of my life now, and though my father is more a

fada than not, at the very least he's not a BP. Once I realized my nada was the

largest factor instigating my Major Depressive Disorder and suicidal thoughts, I

knew I had to move out and take refuge anywhere available. My father's house was

open to me, so I made a secret agreement to go there for the remainder of my

high school years. I didn't know how to break it to my nada, as I knew fully

well by then that rage, sorrow, guilt, obligation, and all the other BP tools of

manipulation would follow in an unpredictable order. Therefore, I accidentally

let it slip during some outdoor activities in which my step-father, brother,

nada and I were involved. She had been ridiculing me for suggesting that I would

have enough money for some thing or another, when I blurted out that I planned

on getting a job. She laughed and asked me where I thought I could do that. I

quickly said in (city where my father lives), as I was moving there. Everything

went utterly silent and no one moved until my mother stormed off, into the

house, and refused to speak to me. Later, she threatened to keep my car (which

was in my name!), demanded to know why I hadn't asked her if I " could, " and

finally, after a few weeks of sulking and raging, declared, " That's fine. My

life is full enough without you. "

She also had a wonderful habit of making me feel like privacy and personal space

were guilt-worthy. She was never happy if there was something in my head that

she didn't know, a white lie I had told, a journal under my bed with a key, my

laptop with a password, or a refused hug. For the longest time, I felt like a

terrible person just for having thoughts different from hers! But finally, as I

said, I locked down my computer (she had already gone through it before),

somehow managed to detach, and proceeded to lie about anything and anything

necessary to keep my distance while she forced herself on me. There was actually

a time, DIRECTLY after a screaming match, that she switched moods, wanted pity

and to be seen as the victim, and attempted to hug me. I was furious,

heartbroken, and very much upset, so I pushed her away. LIKE A REFLEX, she

pulled her hand back and seemed to threaten to backhand me!! I had never been

abused by her, so despite my submissive, guilt-ridden KO ways, I was so

surprised that I cried, " You think you can hit me to get me to hug you?! "

Needless to say, after that, I became still more detached, and the day I moved

out was not a moment too soon.

Hope some of this might contribute!

Elle

>

> Many of you old timers, and I don t mean your age ladies, are

> familiar with the concept of FOG : Fear Obligation Guilt that BP parents

> used or use to control and manipulate us.

>

>

> Some of you are also aware that I m writing a book with a working title

> Orphans of the FOG, about the experience and effect of being the child

> of a BP.

>

> I m working currently on a section about manipulation and control. I

> would love to hear from you guys examples of FOG in your life and

> relationship with nada. Ways in which she guilts or scares you, forces

> you to do what you don t want to, or forces you to do what you would do

> anyway, and thus take the joy from it.

>

> This can be current, when you were growing up, or fleas that still drive

> you today, which you realize were from FOG used by nada all your life,

> or years ago. Even if Nada is dead, as some of us have come to find

> out, it ceases to be about her and what she does, but about us and what

> we will choose to do, or not. The FOG stays with us KO s, long after

> we are orphans.

>

> Look forward to hearing your FOG stories.

>

>

> Doug

>

[Guest guest]

Doug,

Agh, absolutely.

I am currently a 21 year-old junior in college, and because my BP mother has

somehow arranged my finances so that even loans taken out in my name are in her

account, I am completely dependent upon her for finances. Whenever I need

something that my minimum wage job's paychecks don't cover--such as gas, rent,

bills--I have to " ask " her. Her " generosity " is entirely based upon what mood

she's in, which, as most KO's know, is utterly unpredictable, causing me a great

deal of stress at any given moment. Furthermore, because, as I said, she has

control (which she loves, of course) over something like 95% of my finances, if

I do anything " wrong " in her eyes, I can and have been completely cut off from

the basic necessities. This Fear plays a large role in my life for many reasons;

among the less obvious, that I live some distance from my closest friends, and

if she chooses not to " have enough money this week, " I am helpless to reconnect

with the larger portion of my support system (with which she has also tried to

disconnect me more overtly in the past).

GUILT is also a major player in our " relationship. " My parents have been

divorced for over three quarters of my life now, and though my father is more a

fada than not, at the very least he's not a BP. Once I realized my nada was the

largest factor instigating my Major Depressive Disorder and suicidal thoughts, I

knew I had to move out and take refuge anywhere available. My father's house was

open to me, so I made a secret agreement to go there for the remainder of my

high school years. I didn't know how to break it to my nada, as I knew fully

well by then that rage, sorrow, guilt, obligation, and all the other BP tools of

manipulation would follow in an unpredictable order. Therefore, I accidentally

let it slip during some outdoor activities in which my step-father, brother,

nada and I were involved. She had been ridiculing me for suggesting that I would

have enough money for some thing or another, when I blurted out that I planned

on getting a job. She laughed and asked me where I thought I could do that. I

quickly said in (city where my father lives), as I was moving there. Everything

went utterly silent and no one moved until my mother stormed off, into the

house, and refused to speak to me. Later, she threatened to keep my car (which

was in my name!), demanded to know why I hadn't asked her if I " could, " and

finally, after a few weeks of sulking and raging, declared, " That's fine. My

life is full enough without you. "

She also had a wonderful habit of making me feel like privacy and personal space

were guilt-worthy. She was never happy if there was something in my head that

she didn't know, a white lie I had told, a journal under my bed with a key, my

laptop with a password, or a refused hug. For the longest time, I felt like a

terrible person just for having thoughts different from hers! But finally, as I

said, I locked down my computer (she had already gone through it before),

somehow managed to detach, and proceeded to lie about anything and anything

necessary to keep my distance while she forced herself on me. There was actually

a time, DIRECTLY after a screaming match, that she switched moods, wanted pity

and to be seen as the victim, and attempted to hug me. I was furious,

heartbroken, and very much upset, so I pushed her away. LIKE A REFLEX, she

pulled her hand back and seemed to threaten to backhand me!! I had never been

abused by her, so despite my submissive, guilt-ridden KO ways, I was so

surprised that I cried, " You think you can hit me to get me to hug you?! "

Needless to say, after that, I became still more detached, and the day I moved

out was not a moment too soon.

Hope some of this might contribute!

Elle

>

> Many of you old timers, and I don t mean your age ladies, are

> familiar with the concept of FOG : Fear Obligation Guilt that BP parents

> used or use to control and manipulate us.

>

>

> Some of you are also aware that I m writing a book with a working title

> Orphans of the FOG, about the experience and effect of being the child

> of a BP.

>

> I m working currently on a section about manipulation and control. I

> would love to hear from you guys examples of FOG in your life and

> relationship with nada. Ways in which she guilts or scares you, forces

> you to do what you don t want to, or forces you to do what you would do

> anyway, and thus take the joy from it.

>

> This can be current, when you were growing up, or fleas that still drive

> you today, which you realize were from FOG used by nada all your life,

> or years ago. Even if Nada is dead, as some of us have come to find

> out, it ceases to be about her and what she does, but about us and what

> we will choose to do, or not. The FOG stays with us KO s, long after

> we are orphans.

>

> Look forward to hearing your FOG stories.

>

>

> Doug

>

[Guest guest]

i still have lots of fears for sure doug. not so much the o and g part anymore i

don't think, or at least am not aware.. almost any new change is fearful for

me.. even good change. also anything i have initiated for myself.  a big no-no

when i was growing up that still plagues me.. i tend to wait and take other

people's leads, following was my 'place' in life according to my nada, as

everyone here can relate to i am sure.. we were not given the chance to express

ourselves much as individual people to show ourselves we could create ourselves

and explore what it means to be ourselves.. i know i didnt and so trying to do

that is scary for me even now.  but i say to myself in this situation very

often 'feel the fear and do it anyway!!' and that will often help.. and as i

begin actually doing the fear usually subsides. but boy is it strong at first!

 but again i say just 'do it anyway' and try my best to act on my convictions

and become myself more despite

the fleas that remain that try to stop me still.  and so it goes.and i say

too, may we all heal,blessings to all.ann

Subject: FOG in action

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 11:09 AM

 

Many of you old timers, and I don t mean your age ladies, are

familiar with the concept of FOG : Fear Obligation Guilt that BP parents

used or use to control and manipulate us.

Some of you are also aware that I m writing a book with a working title

Orphans of the FOG, about the experience and effect of being the child

of a BP.

I m working currently on a section about manipulation and control. I

would love to hear from you guys examples of FOG in your life and

relationship with nada. Ways in which she guilts or scares you, forces

you to do what you don t want to, or forces you to do what you would do

anyway, and thus take the joy from it.

This can be current, when you were growing up, or fleas that still drive

you today, which you realize were from FOG used by nada all your life,

or years ago. Even if Nada is dead, as some of us have come to find

out, it ceases to be about her and what she does, but about us and what

we will choose to do, or not. The FOG stays with us KO s, long after

we are orphans.

Look forward to hearing your FOG stories.

Doug

[Guest guest]

Doug,

My mom stole away all of my loves and passions.

Over a period of years, I no longer could breathe air in and out all day long.

I was isolated and alone, and breathing was too painful, missing my essence of

life and all the things and people who made my heart beat.

I made up my mind to leave this world.

The only reason I didn't kill myself over those intensely painful days and

nights is, in itself, so wracked with FOG.

I didn't care if I ended my own life at a young age.

I didn't want my mom to have to grieve losing a daughter. Whatever she did to

me, I couldn't do that to her.

Even at the lowest points in my life, I was still considering her feelings

first.

Amy

FOG in action

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 11:09 AM

Many of you old timers, and I don t mean your age ladies, are

familiar with the concept of FOG : Fear Obligation Guilt that BP parents

used or use to control and manipulate us.

Some of you are also aware that I m writing a book with a working title

Orphans of the FOG, about the experience and effect of being the child

of a BP.

I m working currently on a section about manipulation and control. I

would love to hear from you guys examples of FOG in your life and

relationship with nada. Ways in which she guilts or scares you, forces

you to do what you don t want to, or forces you to do what you would do

anyway, and thus take the joy from it.

This can be current, when you were growing up, or fleas that still drive

you today, which you realize were from FOG used by nada all your life,

or years ago. Even if Nada is dead, as some of us have come to find

out, it ceases to be about her and what she does, but about us and what

we will choose to do, or not. The FOG stays with us KO s, long after

we are orphans.

Look forward to hearing your FOG stories.

Doug

[Guest guest]

For some reason, this OP is not showing up in the group.

Doug - I have set some hard boundaries with my mom over the last couple of years

and because my husband has gotten involved as well, she has greatly diminished

the level of manipulation and guilt she tries on me personally.

However, my brothers still fall victim to her tactics quite often and have yet

to set boundaries with her. I will share some of the most recent she has done

with them and see if it will help you.

- Nada frequently searches the room of my college-aged brother, who lives with

her, and says she has a right to do this because she pays rent (despite the fact

that she guilted my brother into loaning her a large sum of money she has yet to

fully pay back, jeopardizing his own college tuition). She recently searched his

laptop while he was away from home and his personal things and blew up that he

had Harry Potter movies and " questionable " websites on his laptop. She told him

he HAD to remove the movies from HER premises and contact a church about his

questionable websites. He was given a deadline in which to contact a pastor and

was to " report " back to her when he had done so or she was going to require him

to move out

- She recently used the social security number of my youngest brother on an

application she was filling out to be a missionary. She did not ask for his

permission. She had it memorized (since he's the youngest child) and felt she

had a right to use it as she saw fit. She told him it was to verify who her

children were, but she did not ask me or my other brother for ours. (probably

because she knew she wouldn't get it)

- My other brother lives out of state as do his children. He is divorced. My

brother recently left a visit with us to travel over 2,000 miles back to his

children to see them for Christmas and was stopping enroute to visit his

girlfriend, whom my nada HATES. (His car also broke down on the way and he is

staying at girlfriend's house until he can get his car repaired.) She suspected

where he was stopping, though he didn't tell her. She called his children on the

phone this weekend, then three-wayed my brother into the call without telling

him. After the children were off the phone, she told him she wanted to make sure

he was talking to his children regularly and that she told his children he would

be there to see them in less than 2 days.

She deliberately did this in hopes that my brother would feel guilty that now

his children's hopes were up and he would leave his girlfriend's house

immediately to go see them. In other words, she manipulated her grandchildren's

emotions in order to guilt my brother into doing what she thought he needed to

do (leave girlfriend's house). She also assumes my brother never calls the

children because he's too busy " whoring around " . Which is a far cry from the

truth.

Hope that all makes sense.

My mom has a long history of such manipulations and the only way I can cope

sometimes is to forget what she does as soon as she does it. I can't dwell on

it. So these are the most recent examples that are fresh on my memory.

Hope that helps.

>

>

> Subject: FOG in action

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 11:09 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>  

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Many of you old timers, and I don t mean your age ladies, are

>

> familiar with the concept of FOG : Fear Obligation Guilt that BP parents

>

> used or use to control and manipulate us.

>

>

>

> Some of you are also aware that I m writing a book with a working title

>

> Orphans of the FOG, about the experience and effect of being the child

>

> of a BP.

>

>

>

> I m working currently on a section about manipulation and control. I

>

> would love to hear from you guys examples of FOG in your life and

>

> relationship with nada. Ways in which she guilts or scares you, forces

>

> you to do what you don t want to, or forces you to do what you would do

>

> anyway, and thus take the joy from it.

>

>

>

> This can be current, when you were growing up, or fleas that still drive

>

> you today, which you realize were from FOG used by nada all your life,

>

> or years ago. Even if Nada is dead, as some of us have come to find

>

> out, it ceases to be about her and what she does, but about us and what

>

> we will choose to do, or not. The FOG stays with us KO s, long after

>

> we are orphans.

>

>

>

> Look forward to hearing your FOG stories.

>

>

>

> Doug

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

For some reason, this OP is not showing up in the group.

Doug - I have set some hard boundaries with my mom over the last couple of years

and because my husband has gotten involved as well, she has greatly diminished

the level of manipulation and guilt she tries on me personally.

However, my brothers still fall victim to her tactics quite often and have yet

to set boundaries with her. I will share some of the most recent she has done

with them and see if it will help you.

- Nada frequently searches the room of my college-aged brother, who lives with

her, and says she has a right to do this because she pays rent (despite the fact

that she guilted my brother into loaning her a large sum of money she has yet to

fully pay back, jeopardizing his own college tuition). She recently searched his

laptop while he was away from home and his personal things and blew up that he

had Harry Potter movies and " questionable " websites on his laptop. She told him

he HAD to remove the movies from HER premises and contact a church about his

questionable websites. He was given a deadline in which to contact a pastor and

was to " report " back to her when he had done so or she was going to require him

to move out

- She recently used the social security number of my youngest brother on an

application she was filling out to be a missionary. She did not ask for his

permission. She had it memorized (since he's the youngest child) and felt she

had a right to use it as she saw fit. She told him it was to verify who her

children were, but she did not ask me or my other brother for ours. (probably

because she knew she wouldn't get it)

- My other brother lives out of state as do his children. He is divorced. My

brother recently left a visit with us to travel over 2,000 miles back to his

children to see them for Christmas and was stopping enroute to visit his

girlfriend, whom my nada HATES. (His car also broke down on the way and he is

staying at girlfriend's house until he can get his car repaired.) She suspected

where he was stopping, though he didn't tell her. She called his children on the

phone this weekend, then three-wayed my brother into the call without telling

him. After the children were off the phone, she told him she wanted to make sure

he was talking to his children regularly and that she told his children he would

be there to see them in less than 2 days.

She deliberately did this in hopes that my brother would feel guilty that now

his children's hopes were up and he would leave his girlfriend's house

immediately to go see them. In other words, she manipulated her grandchildren's

emotions in order to guilt my brother into doing what she thought he needed to

do (leave girlfriend's house). She also assumes my brother never calls the

children because he's too busy " whoring around " . Which is a far cry from the

truth.

Hope that all makes sense.

My mom has a long history of such manipulations and the only way I can cope

sometimes is to forget what she does as soon as she does it. I can't dwell on

it. So these are the most recent examples that are fresh on my memory.

Hope that helps.

>

>

> Subject: FOG in action

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 11:09 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>  

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Many of you old timers, and I don t mean your age ladies, are

>

> familiar with the concept of FOG : Fear Obligation Guilt that BP parents

>

> used or use to control and manipulate us.

>

>

>

> Some of you are also aware that I m writing a book with a working title

>

> Orphans of the FOG, about the experience and effect of being the child

>

> of a BP.

>

>

>

> I m working currently on a section about manipulation and control. I

>

> would love to hear from you guys examples of FOG in your life and

>

> relationship with nada. Ways in which she guilts or scares you, forces

>

> you to do what you don t want to, or forces you to do what you would do

>

> anyway, and thus take the joy from it.

>

>

>

> This can be current, when you were growing up, or fleas that still drive

>

> you today, which you realize were from FOG used by nada all your life,

>

> or years ago. Even if Nada is dead, as some of us have come to find

>

> out, it ceases to be about her and what she does, but about us and what

>

> we will choose to do, or not. The FOG stays with us KO s, long after

>

> we are orphans.

>

>

>

> Look forward to hearing your FOG stories.

>

>

>

> Doug

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Doug (for Orphans of the FOG):

My nada raised me in a mini-cult of family and friends, but mostly just her.

She did transchanneling and fortune telling. At first, it seemed fun to have

her read the tarot cards and tell you about your future. But then it became

controlling and scary, especially the part where she did the trances and I was

supposed to " guard " her body. Also, she got to the point where she did what is

called " awake " transchanneling. The theory is that the people from " the other

side " control her body while talking for her as well. She also came to believe

that one of them might stay and she would die but just " trade " her body off

without bothering with a funeral and all that.

The result for me was a lot of fear and the inability to make a decision without

consulting the spirit guides. I also spent hours in the company of her in a

delusional state or with these other souls, whatever that may have been. For

the record, I kind of liked them better than my mom anyway. ha ha I remember

one time in the upstairs bathroom (yeah, privacy was a mute point with her) when

she was telling my about my future in college. She said I would go to a school

nearby and meet the man I would marry as a sophomore there. I'm not sure how I

got the courage to try going to my Dad's for college, but it didn't work out

well to say the least. I am wondering if my FOG sabotaged it for me because I

became so severely depressed that I attempted suicide and would have succeeded

except for being accidentally found. (I am very thankful for this.)

I have rejected this cult upbringing along with most things from my childhood.

I now have a strong faith that does not involve superstitious thinking. But I

was so oppressed by all of this mind control that I actually wouldn't read

fortune cookies at a Chinese restaurant for several years because IT WOULD

INFLUENCE MY ACTIONS AND THOUGHTS if I did.

I still have fears that she might have a voodoo doll of me or something and used

to worry that she was making me sick. I also feared at one time that she would

take over my son's life and make him crazy like her.

It's not like I rationally believe these things, but the little child inside of

me is still afraid of her.

I think this is a good example of religious FOG and mind control that can

overwhelm a victim and paralyze them in life.

+Coal Miner's Daughter

[Guest guest]

Dear Doug (for Orphans of the FOG):

My nada raised me in a mini-cult of family and friends, but mostly just her.

She did transchanneling and fortune telling. At first, it seemed fun to have

her read the tarot cards and tell you about your future. But then it became

controlling and scary, especially the part where she did the trances and I was

supposed to " guard " her body. Also, she got to the point where she did what is

called " awake " transchanneling. The theory is that the people from " the other

side " control her body while talking for her as well. She also came to believe

that one of them might stay and she would die but just " trade " her body off

without bothering with a funeral and all that.

The result for me was a lot of fear and the inability to make a decision without

consulting the spirit guides. I also spent hours in the company of her in a

delusional state or with these other souls, whatever that may have been. For

the record, I kind of liked them better than my mom anyway. ha ha I remember

one time in the upstairs bathroom (yeah, privacy was a mute point with her) when

she was telling my about my future in college. She said I would go to a school

nearby and meet the man I would marry as a sophomore there. I'm not sure how I

got the courage to try going to my Dad's for college, but it didn't work out

well to say the least. I am wondering if my FOG sabotaged it for me because I

became so severely depressed that I attempted suicide and would have succeeded

except for being accidentally found. (I am very thankful for this.)

I have rejected this cult upbringing along with most things from my childhood.

I now have a strong faith that does not involve superstitious thinking. But I

was so oppressed by all of this mind control that I actually wouldn't read

fortune cookies at a Chinese restaurant for several years because IT WOULD

INFLUENCE MY ACTIONS AND THOUGHTS if I did.

I still have fears that she might have a voodoo doll of me or something and used

to worry that she was making me sick. I also feared at one time that she would

take over my son's life and make him crazy like her.

It's not like I rationally believe these things, but the little child inside of

me is still afraid of her.

I think this is a good example of religious FOG and mind control that can

overwhelm a victim and paralyze them in life.

+Coal Miner's Daughter

[Guest guest]

Dear Doug (for Orphans of the FOG):

My nada raised me in a mini-cult of family and friends, but mostly just her.

She did transchanneling and fortune telling. At first, it seemed fun to have

her read the tarot cards and tell you about your future. But then it became

controlling and scary, especially the part where she did the trances and I was

supposed to " guard " her body. Also, she got to the point where she did what is

called " awake " transchanneling. The theory is that the people from " the other

side " control her body while talking for her as well. She also came to believe

that one of them might stay and she would die but just " trade " her body off

without bothering with a funeral and all that.

The result for me was a lot of fear and the inability to make a decision without

consulting the spirit guides. I also spent hours in the company of her in a

delusional state or with these other souls, whatever that may have been. For

the record, I kind of liked them better than my mom anyway. ha ha I remember

one time in the upstairs bathroom (yeah, privacy was a mute point with her) when

she was telling my about my future in college. She said I would go to a school

nearby and meet the man I would marry as a sophomore there. I'm not sure how I

got the courage to try going to my Dad's for college, but it didn't work out

well to say the least. I am wondering if my FOG sabotaged it for me because I

became so severely depressed that I attempted suicide and would have succeeded

except for being accidentally found. (I am very thankful for this.)

I have rejected this cult upbringing along with most things from my childhood.

I now have a strong faith that does not involve superstitious thinking. But I

was so oppressed by all of this mind control that I actually wouldn't read

fortune cookies at a Chinese restaurant for several years because IT WOULD

INFLUENCE MY ACTIONS AND THOUGHTS if I did.

I still have fears that she might have a voodoo doll of me or something and used

to worry that she was making me sick. I also feared at one time that she would

take over my son's life and make him crazy like her.

It's not like I rationally believe these things, but the little child inside of

me is still afraid of her.

I think this is a good example of religious FOG and mind control that can

overwhelm a victim and paralyze them in life.

+Coal Miner's Daughter

[Guest guest]

How apropos!

I haven't visited the board in a few months because schoolwork has been

overwhelming and my husband went back to work (unfortunately the job is in

another state), so I have been a single mom trying to balance medical school and

a household with 2 kids. I had my last final last week and my mother arrived a

week ago for a holiday visit.

I knew it would be stressful, as it always is, but I still try to find the lucid

moments and cherish those. I still love her, I still miss having a normal

relationship, I still want us to at least be at peace, which is probably why I

haven't been able to cut her out of my life.

Well, the day after she arrived she began telling me how the entire layout of my

house was completely wrong. Couches must be moved, bedrooms switched, children's

play and study room reconfigured, the office relocated. I told her that I was

tired after a long and grueling semester. I told her that I was content with the

house as it was and I didn't want to waste any time and effort on rearranging

it. I told her that my lease is up at the end of May and I will be moving

anyway, so really, the time and effort is not worth it. Despite all my

objections, stated calmly and pleadingly, she refused to drop the issue. She

proceeded to tell me how completely nonsensical MY approach is to EVERYTHING.

She told me over and over again that I am rigid and unwilling to change (oh the

irony!). She told me that I am stubborn and don't want to see sense. Then she

proceeded to guilt me by telling me that the location of my children's desks (in

front of windows where they can get good light (no direct sunlight, mind you)

when working) is damaging to their eyes and that I am showing no concern for my

children's sight. (I should note, for those who have no recollection of my past

posts, that I am in my mid-thirties, my older son is taller than I am, so I am

not a new and inexperienced mom). And finally it all boiled down to: " You hate

me, you have never treated me like a mother, etc., etc. "

At one point, this morning, I thought there might be a chance of dialog (I don't

know why I fall for this still, although I do have to admit that I fall for it

much much much more rarely now). Alas, it's always the same old story.

So here I am today, and I already feel better, in this one place, albeit

virtual, where there are others who know and understand my life so perfectly.

I am too tired to even type out what's swirling in my head right now - tired

physically and drained emotionally, but I will come back with more.

Arianna

>

> Many of you old timers, and I don t mean your age ladies, are

> familiar with the concept of FOG : Fear Obligation Guilt that BP parents

> used or use to control and manipulate us.

>

>

> Some of you are also aware that I m writing a book with a working title

> Orphans of the FOG, about the experience and effect of being the child

> of a BP.

>

> I m working currently on a section about manipulation and control. I

> would love to hear from you guys examples of FOG in your life and

> relationship with nada. Ways in which she guilts or scares you, forces

> you to do what you don t want to, or forces you to do what you would do

> anyway, and thus take the joy from it.

>

> This can be current, when you were growing up, or fleas that still drive

> you today, which you realize were from FOG used by nada all your life,

> or years ago. Even if Nada is dead, as some of us have come to find

> out, it ceases to be about her and what she does, but about us and what

> we will choose to do, or not. The FOG stays with us KO s, long after

> we are orphans.

>

> Look forward to hearing your FOG stories.

>

>

> Doug

>

[Guest guest]

How apropos!

I haven't visited the board in a few months because schoolwork has been

overwhelming and my husband went back to work (unfortunately the job is in

another state), so I have been a single mom trying to balance medical school and

a household with 2 kids. I had my last final last week and my mother arrived a

week ago for a holiday visit.

I knew it would be stressful, as it always is, but I still try to find the lucid

moments and cherish those. I still love her, I still miss having a normal

relationship, I still want us to at least be at peace, which is probably why I

haven't been able to cut her out of my life.

Well, the day after she arrived she began telling me how the entire layout of my

house was completely wrong. Couches must be moved, bedrooms switched, children's

play and study room reconfigured, the office relocated. I told her that I was

tired after a long and grueling semester. I told her that I was content with the

house as it was and I didn't want to waste any time and effort on rearranging

it. I told her that my lease is up at the end of May and I will be moving

anyway, so really, the time and effort is not worth it. Despite all my

objections, stated calmly and pleadingly, she refused to drop the issue. She

proceeded to tell me how completely nonsensical MY approach is to EVERYTHING.

She told me over and over again that I am rigid and unwilling to change (oh the

irony!). She told me that I am stubborn and don't want to see sense. Then she

proceeded to guilt me by telling me that the location of my children's desks (in

front of windows where they can get good light (no direct sunlight, mind you)

when working) is damaging to their eyes and that I am showing no concern for my

children's sight. (I should note, for those who have no recollection of my past

posts, that I am in my mid-thirties, my older son is taller than I am, so I am

not a new and inexperienced mom). And finally it all boiled down to: " You hate

me, you have never treated me like a mother, etc., etc. "

At one point, this morning, I thought there might be a chance of dialog (I don't

know why I fall for this still, although I do have to admit that I fall for it

much much much more rarely now). Alas, it's always the same old story.

So here I am today, and I already feel better, in this one place, albeit

virtual, where there are others who know and understand my life so perfectly.

I am too tired to even type out what's swirling in my head right now - tired

physically and drained emotionally, but I will come back with more.

Arianna

>

> Many of you old timers, and I don t mean your age ladies, are

> familiar with the concept of FOG : Fear Obligation Guilt that BP parents

> used or use to control and manipulate us.

>

>

> Some of you are also aware that I m writing a book with a working title

> Orphans of the FOG, about the experience and effect of being the child

> of a BP.

>

> I m working currently on a section about manipulation and control. I

> would love to hear from you guys examples of FOG in your life and

> relationship with nada. Ways in which she guilts or scares you, forces

> you to do what you don t want to, or forces you to do what you would do

> anyway, and thus take the joy from it.

>

> This can be current, when you were growing up, or fleas that still drive

> you today, which you realize were from FOG used by nada all your life,

> or years ago. Even if Nada is dead, as some of us have come to find

> out, it ceases to be about her and what she does, but about us and what

> we will choose to do, or not. The FOG stays with us KO s, long after

> we are orphans.

>

> Look forward to hearing your FOG stories.

>

>

> Doug

>

[Guest guest]

Arianna,

I feel similar to you.

My mom uses babytalk to always tell me that she doesn't like where my house is

located.

I have 5 kids and my husband whom I cook for almost every night, i drive all

kids around every day to music lessons, sports teams, playdates, library, I food

shop twice a week, I clean the house myself, help with everyone's homework, I am

trying to start my own internet-based business, and i work at home for my

husband. Needless to say, I'm tired!!

my mother obsesses about us moving to a mother-daughter home so she can live

with us under the guise of that she doesn't like the busy village corner house

we live in. she doesn't understand that even if i had all the time in the world

to pack up and move...i wouldn't live with her ever again.

i don't even enjoy the lucid moments anymore and they are kept to a minimum.

i sincerely miss having a stable mom in my upbringing and now. when i see my

friends with their moms, i sometimes can't fathom why i didn't get one of those.

Amy

Re: FOG in action

How apropos!

I haven't visited the board in a few months because schoolwork has been

overwhelming and my husband went back to work (unfortunately the job is in

another state), so I have been a single mom trying to balance medical school and

a household with 2 kids. I had my last final last week and my mother arrived a

week ago for a holiday visit.

I knew it would be stressful, as it always is, but I still try to find the lucid

moments and cherish those. I still love her, I still miss having a normal

relationship, I still want us to at least be at peace, which is probably why I

haven't been able to cut her out of my life.

Well, the day after she arrived she began telling me how the entire layout of my

house was completely wrong. Couches must be moved, bedrooms switched, children's

play and study room reconfigured, the office relocated. I told her that I was

tired after a long and grueling semester. I told her that I was content with the

house as it was and I didn't want to waste any time and effort on rearranging

it. I told her that my lease is up at the end of May and I will be moving

anyway, so really, the time and effort is not worth it. Despite all my

objections, stated calmly and pleadingly, she refused to drop the issue. She

proceeded to tell me how completely nonsensical MY approach is to EVERYTHING.

She told me over and over again that I am rigid and unwilling to change (oh the

irony!). She told me that I am stubborn and don't want to see sense. Then she

proceeded to guilt me by telling me that the location of my children's desks (in

front of windows where they can get good light (no d irect sunlight, mind you)

when working) is damaging to their eyes and that I am showing no concern for my

children's sight. (I should note, for those who have no recollection of my past

posts, that I am in my mid-thirties, my older son is taller than I am, so I am

not a new and inexperienced mom). And finally it all boiled down to: " You hate

me, you have never treated me like a mother, etc., etc. "

At one point, this morning, I thought there might be a chance of dialog (I don't

know why I fall for this still, although I do have to admit that I fall for it

much much much more rarely now). Alas, it's always the same old story.

So here I am today, and I already feel better, in this one place, albeit

virtual, where there are others who know and understand my life so perfectly.

I am too tired to even type out what's swirling in my head right now - tired

physically and drained emotionally, but I will come back with more.

Arianna

>

> Many of you old timers, and I don t mean your age ladies, are

> familiar with the concept of FOG : Fear Obligation Guilt that BP parents

> used or use to control and manipulate us.

>

>

> Some of you are also aware that I m writing a book with a working title

> Orphans of the FOG, about the experience and effect of being the child

> of a BP.

>

> I m working currently on a section about manipulation and control. I

> would love to hear from you guys examples of FOG in your life and

> relationship with nada. Ways in which she guilts or scares you, forces

> you to do what you don t want to, or forces you to do what you would do

> anyway, and thus take the joy from it.

>

> This can be current, when you were growing up, or fleas that still drive

> you today, which you realize were from FOG used by nada all your life,

> or years ago. Even if Nada is dead, as some of us have come to find

> out, it ceases to be about her and what she does, but about us and what

> we will choose to do, or not. The FOG stays with us KO s, long after

> we are orphans.

>

> Look forward to hearing your FOG stories.

>

>

> Doug

>

[Guest guest]

Arianna,

I feel similar to you.

My mom uses babytalk to always tell me that she doesn't like where my house is

located.

I have 5 kids and my husband whom I cook for almost every night, i drive all

kids around every day to music lessons, sports teams, playdates, library, I food

shop twice a week, I clean the house myself, help with everyone's homework, I am

trying to start my own internet-based business, and i work at home for my

husband. Needless to say, I'm tired!!

my mother obsesses about us moving to a mother-daughter home so she can live

with us under the guise of that she doesn't like the busy village corner house

we live in. she doesn't understand that even if i had all the time in the world

to pack up and move...i wouldn't live with her ever again.

i don't even enjoy the lucid moments anymore and they are kept to a minimum.

i sincerely miss having a stable mom in my upbringing and now. when i see my

friends with their moms, i sometimes can't fathom why i didn't get one of those.

Amy

Re: FOG in action

How apropos!

I haven't visited the board in a few months because schoolwork has been

overwhelming and my husband went back to work (unfortunately the job is in

another state), so I have been a single mom trying to balance medical school and

a household with 2 kids. I had my last final last week and my mother arrived a

week ago for a holiday visit.

I knew it would be stressful, as it always is, but I still try to find the lucid

moments and cherish those. I still love her, I still miss having a normal

relationship, I still want us to at least be at peace, which is probably why I

haven't been able to cut her out of my life.

Well, the day after she arrived she began telling me how the entire layout of my

house was completely wrong. Couches must be moved, bedrooms switched, children's

play and study room reconfigured, the office relocated. I told her that I was

tired after a long and grueling semester. I told her that I was content with the

house as it was and I didn't want to waste any time and effort on rearranging

it. I told her that my lease is up at the end of May and I will be moving

anyway, so really, the time and effort is not worth it. Despite all my

objections, stated calmly and pleadingly, she refused to drop the issue. She

proceeded to tell me how completely nonsensical MY approach is to EVERYTHING.

She told me over and over again that I am rigid and unwilling to change (oh the

irony!). She told me that I am stubborn and don't want to see sense. Then she

proceeded to guilt me by telling me that the location of my children's desks (in

front of windows where they can get good light (no d irect sunlight, mind you)

when working) is damaging to their eyes and that I am showing no concern for my

children's sight. (I should note, for those who have no recollection of my past

posts, that I am in my mid-thirties, my older son is taller than I am, so I am

not a new and inexperienced mom). And finally it all boiled down to: " You hate

me, you have never treated me like a mother, etc., etc. "

At one point, this morning, I thought there might be a chance of dialog (I don't

know why I fall for this still, although I do have to admit that I fall for it

much much much more rarely now). Alas, it's always the same old story.

So here I am today, and I already feel better, in this one place, albeit

virtual, where there are others who know and understand my life so perfectly.

I am too tired to even type out what's swirling in my head right now - tired

physically and drained emotionally, but I will come back with more.

Arianna

>

> Many of you old timers, and I don t mean your age ladies, are

> familiar with the concept of FOG : Fear Obligation Guilt that BP parents

> used or use to control and manipulate us.

>

>

> Some of you are also aware that I m writing a book with a working title

> Orphans of the FOG, about the experience and effect of being the child

> of a BP.

>

> I m working currently on a section about manipulation and control. I

> would love to hear from you guys examples of FOG in your life and

> relationship with nada. Ways in which she guilts or scares you, forces

> you to do what you don t want to, or forces you to do what you would do

> anyway, and thus take the joy from it.

>

> This can be current, when you were growing up, or fleas that still drive

> you today, which you realize were from FOG used by nada all your life,

> or years ago. Even if Nada is dead, as some of us have come to find

> out, it ceases to be about her and what she does, but about us and what

> we will choose to do, or not. The FOG stays with us KO s, long after

> we are orphans.

>

> Look forward to hearing your FOG stories.

>

>

> Doug

>

[Guest guest]

Arianna,

I feel similar to you.

My mom uses babytalk to always tell me that she doesn't like where my house is

located.

I have 5 kids and my husband whom I cook for almost every night, i drive all

kids around every day to music lessons, sports teams, playdates, library, I food

shop twice a week, I clean the house myself, help with everyone's homework, I am

trying to start my own internet-based business, and i work at home for my

husband. Needless to say, I'm tired!!

my mother obsesses about us moving to a mother-daughter home so she can live

with us under the guise of that she doesn't like the busy village corner house

we live in. she doesn't understand that even if i had all the time in the world

to pack up and move...i wouldn't live with her ever again.

i don't even enjoy the lucid moments anymore and they are kept to a minimum.

i sincerely miss having a stable mom in my upbringing and now. when i see my

friends with their moms, i sometimes can't fathom why i didn't get one of those.

Amy

Re: FOG in action

How apropos!

I haven't visited the board in a few months because schoolwork has been

overwhelming and my husband went back to work (unfortunately the job is in

another state), so I have been a single mom trying to balance medical school and

a household with 2 kids. I had my last final last week and my mother arrived a

week ago for a holiday visit.

I knew it would be stressful, as it always is, but I still try to find the lucid

moments and cherish those. I still love her, I still miss having a normal

relationship, I still want us to at least be at peace, which is probably why I

haven't been able to cut her out of my life.

Well, the day after she arrived she began telling me how the entire layout of my

house was completely wrong. Couches must be moved, bedrooms switched, children's

play and study room reconfigured, the office relocated. I told her that I was

tired after a long and grueling semester. I told her that I was content with the

house as it was and I didn't want to waste any time and effort on rearranging

it. I told her that my lease is up at the end of May and I will be moving

anyway, so really, the time and effort is not worth it. Despite all my

objections, stated calmly and pleadingly, she refused to drop the issue. She

proceeded to tell me how completely nonsensical MY approach is to EVERYTHING.

She told me over and over again that I am rigid and unwilling to change (oh the

irony!). She told me that I am stubborn and don't want to see sense. Then she

proceeded to guilt me by telling me that the location of my children's desks (in

front of windows where they can get good light (no d irect sunlight, mind you)

when working) is damaging to their eyes and that I am showing no concern for my

children's sight. (I should note, for those who have no recollection of my past

posts, that I am in my mid-thirties, my older son is taller than I am, so I am

not a new and inexperienced mom). And finally it all boiled down to: " You hate

me, you have never treated me like a mother, etc., etc. "

At one point, this morning, I thought there might be a chance of dialog (I don't

know why I fall for this still, although I do have to admit that I fall for it

much much much more rarely now). Alas, it's always the same old story.

So here I am today, and I already feel better, in this one place, albeit

virtual, where there are others who know and understand my life so perfectly.

I am too tired to even type out what's swirling in my head right now - tired

physically and drained emotionally, but I will come back with more.

Arianna

>

> Many of you old timers, and I don t mean your age ladies, are

> familiar with the concept of FOG : Fear Obligation Guilt that BP parents

> used or use to control and manipulate us.

>

>

> Some of you are also aware that I m writing a book with a working title

> Orphans of the FOG, about the experience and effect of being the child

> of a BP.

>

> I m working currently on a section about manipulation and control. I

> would love to hear from you guys examples of FOG in your life and

> relationship with nada. Ways in which she guilts or scares you, forces

> you to do what you don t want to, or forces you to do what you would do

> anyway, and thus take the joy from it.

>

> This can be current, when you were growing up, or fleas that still drive

> you today, which you realize were from FOG used by nada all your life,

> or years ago. Even if Nada is dead, as some of us have come to find

> out, it ceases to be about her and what she does, but about us and what

> we will choose to do, or not. The FOG stays with us KO s, long after

> we are orphans.

>

> Look forward to hearing your FOG stories.

>

>

> Doug

>

[Guest guest]

Ok here's mine:

1) My nada was such a queen that she quickly lost her ability to influence

me. Enter the flying monkeys. She began to recruit church women to attack me

on the basis that I was not a good daughter. This was traumatizing. Very

very traumatizing. To be honest I'm a bit terrified of religious women to

this day (no offense intended of course). She would also tell me things in

my dad's name, for example " Your dad is worried that you might be a slut " or

some other insult my dad would never say. She would use other people's names

who did have influence over me to manipulate.

2) She continues the flying monkey thing today. In Marchish, I will be

celebrating 8 years NC. Yet in July, she complained about me so much to her

new daughter in law, who I, being NC, had never heard of or met, that the

woman started facebook harassing me. She doesn't dare do it herself, so she

sends the monkeys. I called the cops. I wasn't having it.

3) My dad gets in on the act. Well, it's been either 2 or 3 years now since

I gave up hope of having a relationship with him. I called to change my

appointment to see him for Christmas to a time when my mother wouldn't be

there, and he started up with the: " But you'll ruin Chwistmas. Don't ruin

Chwistmas. " I'm sorry but its his choice how he would like to spend his

holiday, and he needs to find his own joy -- maybe he should start by

leaving his wife and entering therapy. And two, this was such a blatant

attempt at FOG that I left and I have never looked back.

I'm afraid my stories don't seem very dramatic. .

>

>

> Arianna,

> I feel similar to you.

> My mom uses babytalk to always tell me that she doesn't like where my house

> is located.

> I have 5 kids and my husband whom I cook for almost every night, i drive

> all kids around every day to music lessons, sports teams, playdates,

> library, I food shop twice a week, I clean the house myself, help with

> everyone's homework, I am trying to start my own internet-based business,

> and i work at home for my husband. Needless to say, I'm tired!!

>

> my mother obsesses about us moving to a mother-daughter home so she can

> live with us under the guise of that she doesn't like the busy village

> corner house we live in. she doesn't understand that even if i had all the

> time in the world to pack up and move...i wouldn't live with her ever again.

>

> i don't even enjoy the lucid moments anymore and they are kept to a

> minimum.

>

> i sincerely miss having a stable mom in my upbringing and now. when i see

> my friends with their moms, i sometimes can't fathom why i didn't get one of

> those.

>

> Amy

>

>

> Re: FOG in action

>

> How apropos!

>

> I haven't visited the board in a few months because schoolwork has been

> overwhelming and my husband went back to work (unfortunately the job is in

> another state), so I have been a single mom trying to balance medical school

> and a household with 2 kids. I had my last final last week and my mother

> arrived a week ago for a holiday visit.

>

> I knew it would be stressful, as it always is, but I still try to find the

> lucid moments and cherish those. I still love her, I still miss having a

> normal relationship, I still want us to at least be at peace, which is

> probably why I haven't been able to cut her out of my life.

>

> Well, the day after she arrived she began telling me how the entire layout

> of my house was completely wrong. Couches must be moved, bedrooms switched,

> children's play and study room reconfigured, the office relocated. I told

> her that I was tired after a long and grueling semester. I told her that I

> was content with the house as it was and I didn't want to waste any time and

> effort on rearranging it. I told her that my lease is up at the end of May

> and I will be moving anyway, so really, the time and effort is not worth it.

> Despite all my objections, stated calmly and pleadingly, she refused to drop

> the issue. She proceeded to tell me how completely nonsensical MY approach

> is to EVERYTHING. She told me over and over again that I am rigid and

> unwilling to change (oh the irony!). She told me that I am stubborn and

> don't want to see sense. Then she proceeded to guilt me by telling me that

> the location of my children's desks (in front of windows where they can get

> good light (no d irect sunlight, mind you) when working) is damaging to

> their eyes and that I am showing no concern for my children's sight. (I

> should note, for those who have no recollection of my past posts, that I am

> in my mid-thirties, my older son is taller than I am, so I am not a new and

> inexperienced mom). And finally it all boiled down to: " You hate me, you

> have never treated me like a mother, etc., etc. "

>

>

> At one point, this morning, I thought there might be a chance of dialog (I

> don't know why I fall for this still, although I do have to admit that I

> fall for it much much much more rarely now). Alas, it's always the same old

> story.

>

> So here I am today, and I already feel better, in this one place, albeit

> virtual, where there are others who know and understand my life so

> perfectly.

>

> I am too tired to even type out what's swirling in my head right now -

> tired physically and drained emotionally, but I will come back with more.

>

> Arianna

>

>

> >

> > Many of you old timers, and I don t mean your age ladies, are

> > familiar with the concept of FOG : Fear Obligation Guilt that BP parents

> > used or use to control and manipulate us.

> >

> >

> > Some of you are also aware that I m writing a book with a working title

> > Orphans of the FOG, about the experience and effect of being the child

> > of a BP.

> >

> > I m working currently on a section about manipulation and control. I

> > would love to hear from you guys examples of FOG in your life and

> > relationship with nada. Ways in which she guilts or scares you, forces

> > you to do what you don t want to, or forces you to do what you would do

> > anyway, and thus take the joy from it.

> >

> > This can be current, when you were growing up, or fleas that still drive

> > you today, which you realize were from FOG used by nada all your life,

> > or years ago. Even if Nada is dead, as some of us have come to find

> > out, it ceases to be about her and what she does, but about us and what

> > we will choose to do, or not. The FOG stays with us KO s, long after

> > we are orphans.

> >

> > Look forward to hearing your FOG stories.

> >

> >

> > Doug

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ok here's mine:

1) My nada was such a queen that she quickly lost her ability to influence

me. Enter the flying monkeys. She began to recruit church women to attack me

on the basis that I was not a good daughter. This was traumatizing. Very

very traumatizing. To be honest I'm a bit terrified of religious women to

this day (no offense intended of course). She would also tell me things in

my dad's name, for example " Your dad is worried that you might be a slut " or

some other insult my dad would never say. She would use other people's names

who did have influence over me to manipulate.

2) She continues the flying monkey thing today. In Marchish, I will be

celebrating 8 years NC. Yet in July, she complained about me so much to her

new daughter in law, who I, being NC, had never heard of or met, that the

woman started facebook harassing me. She doesn't dare do it herself, so she

sends the monkeys. I called the cops. I wasn't having it.

3) My dad gets in on the act. Well, it's been either 2 or 3 years now since

I gave up hope of having a relationship with him. I called to change my

appointment to see him for Christmas to a time when my mother wouldn't be

there, and he started up with the: " But you'll ruin Chwistmas. Don't ruin

Chwistmas. " I'm sorry but its his choice how he would like to spend his

holiday, and he needs to find his own joy -- maybe he should start by

leaving his wife and entering therapy. And two, this was such a blatant

attempt at FOG that I left and I have never looked back.

I'm afraid my stories don't seem very dramatic. .

>

>

> Arianna,

> I feel similar to you.

> My mom uses babytalk to always tell me that she doesn't like where my house

> is located.

> I have 5 kids and my husband whom I cook for almost every night, i drive

> all kids around every day to music lessons, sports teams, playdates,

> library, I food shop twice a week, I clean the house myself, help with

> everyone's homework, I am trying to start my own internet-based business,

> and i work at home for my husband. Needless to say, I'm tired!!

>

> my mother obsesses about us moving to a mother-daughter home so she can

> live with us under the guise of that she doesn't like the busy village

> corner house we live in. she doesn't understand that even if i had all the

> time in the world to pack up and move...i wouldn't live with her ever again.

>

> i don't even enjoy the lucid moments anymore and they are kept to a

> minimum.

>

> i sincerely miss having a stable mom in my upbringing and now. when i see

> my friends with their moms, i sometimes can't fathom why i didn't get one of

> those.

>

> Amy

>

>

> Re: FOG in action

>

> How apropos!

>

> I haven't visited the board in a few months because schoolwork has been

> overwhelming and my husband went back to work (unfortunately the job is in

> another state), so I have been a single mom trying to balance medical school

> and a household with 2 kids. I had my last final last week and my mother

> arrived a week ago for a holiday visit.

>

> I knew it would be stressful, as it always is, but I still try to find the

> lucid moments and cherish those. I still love her, I still miss having a

> normal relationship, I still want us to at least be at peace, which is

> probably why I haven't been able to cut her out of my life.

>

> Well, the day after she arrived she began telling me how the entire layout

> of my house was completely wrong. Couches must be moved, bedrooms switched,

> children's play and study room reconfigured, the office relocated. I told

> her that I was tired after a long and grueling semester. I told her that I

> was content with the house as it was and I didn't want to waste any time and

> effort on rearranging it. I told her that my lease is up at the end of May

> and I will be moving anyway, so really, the time and effort is not worth it.

> Despite all my objections, stated calmly and pleadingly, she refused to drop

> the issue. She proceeded to tell me how completely nonsensical MY approach

> is to EVERYTHING. She told me over and over again that I am rigid and

> unwilling to change (oh the irony!). She told me that I am stubborn and

> don't want to see sense. Then she proceeded to guilt me by telling me that

> the location of my children's desks (in front of windows where they can get

> good light (no d irect sunlight, mind you) when working) is damaging to

> their eyes and that I am showing no concern for my children's sight. (I

> should note, for those who have no recollection of my past posts, that I am

> in my mid-thirties, my older son is taller than I am, so I am not a new and

> inexperienced mom). And finally it all boiled down to: " You hate me, you

> have never treated me like a mother, etc., etc. "

>

>

> At one point, this morning, I thought there might be a chance of dialog (I

> don't know why I fall for this still, although I do have to admit that I

> fall for it much much much more rarely now). Alas, it's always the same old

> story.

>

> So here I am today, and I already feel better, in this one place, albeit

> virtual, where there are others who know and understand my life so

> perfectly.

>

> I am too tired to even type out what's swirling in my head right now -

> tired physically and drained emotionally, but I will come back with more.

>

> Arianna

>

>

> >

> > Many of you old timers, and I don t mean your age ladies, are

> > familiar with the concept of FOG : Fear Obligation Guilt that BP parents

> > used or use to control and manipulate us.

> >

> >

> > Some of you are also aware that I m writing a book with a working title

> > Orphans of the FOG, about the experience and effect of being the child

> > of a BP.

> >

> > I m working currently on a section about manipulation and control. I

> > would love to hear from you guys examples of FOG in your life and

> > relationship with nada. Ways in which she guilts or scares you, forces

> > you to do what you don t want to, or forces you to do what you would do

> > anyway, and thus take the joy from it.

> >

> > This can be current, when you were growing up, or fleas that still drive

> > you today, which you realize were from FOG used by nada all your life,

> > or years ago. Even if Nada is dead, as some of us have come to find

> > out, it ceases to be about her and what she does, but about us and what

> > we will choose to do, or not. The FOG stays with us KO s, long after

> > we are orphans.

> >

> > Look forward to hearing your FOG stories.

> >

> >

> > Doug

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Girlscout Cowboy,

I definitely wouldn't worry about " dramatic " stories These are the things we

grew up with, that could have destroyed us, and probably in some measure at the

time did. Everyone here on WTO might have different details, but we all have the

same bottom lines: Fear, Obligation, Guilt, criticism, resentment,

suffering--BPD.

I can very much relate to your story though. My step-dad has behaved similarly,

buying into her ridiculous lies and treating me as such when he never asked me

or anyone else what REALLY happened (or otherwise they would all try to convince

me to " just get along " with her, as you said about Chwistmas (lol), not

understanding that she was consuming me). Those BP's can be so convincing when

they latch on and try to manipulate...Doesn't anyone else wonder if there's a

piece of the story missing??

My nada tried therapy for a little while (as you suggested your dad do), but the

idiot T was so blind that she bought into the crap about the nada's depression

being oriented around my terrible relationship skills. She tried to reach out to

me through my nada by lending books and other junk that I turned my nose up at,

resentful of the fact that she " took " my nada's " side. " Eventually my T invited

HER T to come to a session at which point I established that I'm not the

selfish, angsty, raging and hateful daughter that my mother claimed I was.

Still, all the airhead could come up with was, " oh, she has depression because

of childhood trauma, " and, surprisingly, none of the meds or CBT worked.

How is this possible?! I mean, I know that as children of the BP's we might tend

to believe the terrible and outrageous things they say, but a trained

therapist?! A grown man who has an outside frame of reference?! I'll never

understand.

Wishing you the best,

Elle

> > >

> > > Many of you old timers, and I don t mean your age ladies, are

> > > familiar with the concept of FOG : Fear Obligation Guilt that BP parents

> > > used or use to control and manipulate us.

> > >

> > >

> > > Some of you are also aware that I m writing a book with a working title

> > > Orphans of the FOG, about the experience and effect of being the child

> > > of a BP.

> > >

> > > I m working currently on a section about manipulation and control. I

> > > would love to hear from you guys examples of FOG in your life and

> > > relationship with nada. Ways in which she guilts or scares you, forces

> > > you to do what you don t want to, or forces you to do what you would do

> > > anyway, and thus take the joy from it.

> > >

> > > This can be current, when you were growing up, or fleas that still drive

> > > you today, which you realize were from FOG used by nada all your life,

> > > or years ago. Even if Nada is dead, as some of us have come to find

> > > out, it ceases to be about her and what she does, but about us and what

> > > we will choose to do, or not. The FOG stays with us KO s, long after

> > > we are orphans.

> > >

> > > Look forward to hearing your FOG stories.

> > >

> > >

> > > Doug

> > >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks Elle,

I try my best...without a solid background and roots.

I wish the best for you too.

Amy

Re: FOG in action

Amy,

Your final comment is heart-wrenching but rings true for me. My best friend has

an experienced, wise, and compassionate guide in her mother. What did I get?

Nada, in more ways than one. It doesn't seem fair...But maybe we're stronger in

different ways because of it. At this point I honestly can't tell.

Still, no matter how much time passes between the day I found out my nada was BP

and the year I moved out for good, every once in awhile I sit down again and ask

that question one more time: Why? Why me? Why anyone, for that matter? None of

us ever asked for this.

Luckily we (hopefully) have other great people in our lives to lean on--though

they're still not our mother.

Best wishes and sincere admiration for all the work you do (wow!),

Elle

> >

> > Many of you old timers, and I don t mean your age ladies, are

> > familiar with the concept of FOG : Fear Obligation Guilt that BP parents

> > used or use to control and manipulate us.

> >

> >

> > Some of you are also aware that I m writing a book with a working title

> > Orphans of the FOG, about the experience and effect of being the child

> > of a BP.

> >

> > I m working currently on a section about manipulation and control. I

> > would love to hear from you guys examples of FOG in your life and

> > relationship with nada. Ways in which she guilts or scares you, forces

> > you to do what you don t want to, or forces you to do what you would do

> > anyway, and thus take the joy from it.

> >

> > This can be current, when you were growing up, or fleas that still drive

> > you today, which you realize were from FOG used by nada all your life,

> > or years ago. Even if Nada is dead, as some of us have come to find

> > out, it ceases to be about her and what she does, but about us and what

> > we will choose to do, or not. The FOG stays with us KO s, long after

> > we are orphans.

> >

> > Look forward to hearing your FOG stories.

> >

> >

> > Doug

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks to all who have posted. Some good stuff, and I hope, helps you

to realize where FOG was at work.

Keep em coming! Any and all.

Someone noted " sorry my story is not so dramatic " .

That is a part of what keeps us trapped in it. When I was very young ,

( apologies to AA Milne) my Aunt was a paranoid schizophrenic, severely

mentally ill. Her abuse of her children, and her mental aberrations,

were so profoundly visible, that her children were removed from the home

and adopted out.

( Aside, I met the 4 of them about 10 years, ago, in my 40s. They

were placed together with a football coach and his wife, who wanted a

big family and could not have children. They wanted to find and meet

their FOO, and so they did, traveling across 3 states.)

My mom, on the other hand, was a BP. Her mental aberations were NOT as

visible, in fact, as one of you pointed out, they can use flying monkeys

and well meaning friends or church members to manipulate us to be good,

respectful children. No one sees the full picture, and realizes what we

are dealing with. So we are not removed from our homes, we don t have

social workers visit and put an improvement plan in place, or insist on

Nada getting therapy. Our bruises are most often not outwardly

visisble.

Our stories are NOT as dramatic as the kids whose mom blew up the

trailer with a meth lab, yet they are every bit as wounding. And a part

of the FOG, we should nt feel so bad about it, after all it s

just_____.

One of the reasons for my book is to acknowledge and affirm, yes, it was

profoundly wounding. Mental and emotional pain can be very bit as

damaging as physical or sexual abuse. I don t say this to minimize the

impact of those of you who were abused in such a way, but we all know

the words and expectations of our nada s were deeply, profoundly

wounding. It s hard to fight back against FOG, it swirls around your

fist.

First, we recognize it. Then we ll look into how to fight it.

Thanks, all, and keep em coming.

Doug

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks to all who have posted. Some good stuff, and I hope, helps you

to realize where FOG was at work.

Keep em coming! Any and all.

Someone noted " sorry my story is not so dramatic " .

That is a part of what keeps us trapped in it. When I was very young ,

( apologies to AA Milne) my Aunt was a paranoid schizophrenic, severely

mentally ill. Her abuse of her children, and her mental aberrations,

were so profoundly visible, that her children were removed from the home

and adopted out.

( Aside, I met the 4 of them about 10 years, ago, in my 40s. They

were placed together with a football coach and his wife, who wanted a

big family and could not have children. They wanted to find and meet

their FOO, and so they did, traveling across 3 states.)

My mom, on the other hand, was a BP. Her mental aberations were NOT as

visible, in fact, as one of you pointed out, they can use flying monkeys

and well meaning friends or church members to manipulate us to be good,

respectful children. No one sees the full picture, and realizes what we

are dealing with. So we are not removed from our homes, we don t have

social workers visit and put an improvement plan in place, or insist on

Nada getting therapy. Our bruises are most often not outwardly

visisble.

Our stories are NOT as dramatic as the kids whose mom blew up the

trailer with a meth lab, yet they are every bit as wounding. And a part

of the FOG, we should nt feel so bad about it, after all it s

just_____.

One of the reasons for my book is to acknowledge and affirm, yes, it was

profoundly wounding. Mental and emotional pain can be very bit as

damaging as physical or sexual abuse. I don t say this to minimize the

impact of those of you who were abused in such a way, but we all know

the words and expectations of our nada s were deeply, profoundly

wounding. It s hard to fight back against FOG, it swirls around your

fist.

First, we recognize it. Then we ll look into how to fight it.

Thanks, all, and keep em coming.

Doug

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks to all who have posted. Some good stuff, and I hope, helps you

to realize where FOG was at work.

Keep em coming! Any and all.

Someone noted " sorry my story is not so dramatic " .

That is a part of what keeps us trapped in it. When I was very young ,

( apologies to AA Milne) my Aunt was a paranoid schizophrenic, severely

mentally ill. Her abuse of her children, and her mental aberrations,

were so profoundly visible, that her children were removed from the home

and adopted out.

( Aside, I met the 4 of them about 10 years, ago, in my 40s. They

were placed together with a football coach and his wife, who wanted a

big family and could not have children. They wanted to find and meet

their FOO, and so they did, traveling across 3 states.)

My mom, on the other hand, was a BP. Her mental aberations were NOT as

visible, in fact, as one of you pointed out, they can use flying monkeys

and well meaning friends or church members to manipulate us to be good,

respectful children. No one sees the full picture, and realizes what we

are dealing with. So we are not removed from our homes, we don t have

social workers visit and put an improvement plan in place, or insist on

Nada getting therapy. Our bruises are most often not outwardly

visisble.

Our stories are NOT as dramatic as the kids whose mom blew up the

trailer with a meth lab, yet they are every bit as wounding. And a part

of the FOG, we should nt feel so bad about it, after all it s

just_____.

One of the reasons for my book is to acknowledge and affirm, yes, it was

profoundly wounding. Mental and emotional pain can be very bit as

damaging as physical or sexual abuse. I don t say this to minimize the

impact of those of you who were abused in such a way, but we all know

the words and expectations of our nada s were deeply, profoundly

wounding. It s hard to fight back against FOG, it swirls around your

fist.

First, we recognize it. Then we ll look into how to fight it.

Thanks, all, and keep em coming.

Doug

>

[Guest guest]

This is so true. It has kept me stuck and not aware until my late 40s. After all

they provided food and shelter and my nada " did " things for me. I even thought

that " doing " things for me like laundry and ironing made her greatest mother in

the world. No other mother did those things and worried all the time....But the

emotional neglect and verbal abuse i.e. lack of boundaries etc left me with that

" stinking thinking " . Even my kids have it.

 

Subject: Re: FOG in action

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Thursday, December 16, 2010, 11:07 AM

 

Thanks to all who have posted. Some good stuff, and I hope, helps you

to realize where FOG was at work.

Keep em coming! Any and all.

Someone noted " sorry my story is not so dramatic " .

That is a part of what keeps us trapped in it. When I was very young ,

( apologies to AA Milne) my Aunt was a paranoid schizophrenic, severely

mentally ill. Her abuse of her children, and her mental aberrations,

were so profoundly visible, that her children were removed from the home

and adopted out.

( Aside, I met the 4 of them about 10 years, ago, in my 40s. They

were placed together with a football coach and his wife, who wanted a

big family and could not have children. They wanted to find and meet

their FOO, and so they did, traveling across 3 states.)

My mom, on the other hand, was a BP. Her mental aberations were NOT as

visible, in fact, as one of you pointed out, they can use flying monkeys

and well meaning friends or church members to manipulate us to be good,

respectful children. No one sees the full picture, and realizes what we

are dealing with. So we are not removed from our homes, we don t have

social workers visit and put an improvement plan in place, or insist on

Nada getting therapy. Our bruises are most often not outwardly

visisble.

Our stories are NOT as dramatic as the kids whose mom blew up the

trailer with a meth lab, yet they are every bit as wounding. And a part

of the FOG, we should nt feel so bad about it, after all it s

just_____.

One of the reasons for my book is to acknowledge and affirm, yes, it was

profoundly wounding. Mental and emotional pain can be very bit as

damaging as physical or sexual abuse. I don t say this to minimize the

impact of those of you who were abused in such a way, but we all know

the words and expectations of our nada s were deeply, profoundly

wounding. It s hard to fight back against FOG, it swirls around your

fist.

First, we recognize it. Then we ll look into how to fight it.

Thanks, all, and keep em coming.

Doug

>

[Guest guest]

This is so true. It has kept me stuck and not aware until my late 40s. After all

they provided food and shelter and my nada " did " things for me. I even thought

that " doing " things for me like laundry and ironing made her greatest mother in

the world. No other mother did those things and worried all the time....But the

emotional neglect and verbal abuse i.e. lack of boundaries etc left me with that

" stinking thinking " . Even my kids have it.

 

Subject: Re: FOG in action

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Thursday, December 16, 2010, 11:07 AM

 

Thanks to all who have posted. Some good stuff, and I hope, helps you

to realize where FOG was at work.

Keep em coming! Any and all.

Someone noted " sorry my story is not so dramatic " .

That is a part of what keeps us trapped in it. When I was very young ,

( apologies to AA Milne) my Aunt was a paranoid schizophrenic, severely

mentally ill. Her abuse of her children, and her mental aberrations,

were so profoundly visible, that her children were removed from the home

and adopted out.

( Aside, I met the 4 of them about 10 years, ago, in my 40s. They

were placed together with a football coach and his wife, who wanted a

big family and could not have children. They wanted to find and meet

their FOO, and so they did, traveling across 3 states.)

My mom, on the other hand, was a BP. Her mental aberations were NOT as

visible, in fact, as one of you pointed out, they can use flying monkeys

and well meaning friends or church members to manipulate us to be good,

respectful children. No one sees the full picture, and realizes what we

are dealing with. So we are not removed from our homes, we don t have

social workers visit and put an improvement plan in place, or insist on

Nada getting therapy. Our bruises are most often not outwardly

visisble.

Our stories are NOT as dramatic as the kids whose mom blew up the

trailer with a meth lab, yet they are every bit as wounding. And a part

of the FOG, we should nt feel so bad about it, after all it s

just_____.

One of the reasons for my book is to acknowledge and affirm, yes, it was

profoundly wounding. Mental and emotional pain can be very bit as

damaging as physical or sexual abuse. I don t say this to minimize the

impact of those of you who were abused in such a way, but we all know

the words and expectations of our nada s were deeply, profoundly

wounding. It s hard to fight back against FOG, it swirls around your

fist.

First, we recognize it. Then we ll look into how to fight it.

Thanks, all, and keep em coming.

Doug

>

[Guest guest]

This is so true. It has kept me stuck and not aware until my late 40s. After all

they provided food and shelter and my nada " did " things for me. I even thought

that " doing " things for me like laundry and ironing made her greatest mother in

the world. No other mother did those things and worried all the time....But the

emotional neglect and verbal abuse i.e. lack of boundaries etc left me with that

" stinking thinking " . Even my kids have it.

 

Subject: Re: FOG in action

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Thursday, December 16, 2010, 11:07 AM

 

Thanks to all who have posted. Some good stuff, and I hope, helps you

to realize where FOG was at work.

Keep em coming! Any and all.

Someone noted " sorry my story is not so dramatic " .

That is a part of what keeps us trapped in it. When I was very young ,

( apologies to AA Milne) my Aunt was a paranoid schizophrenic, severely

mentally ill. Her abuse of her children, and her mental aberrations,

were so profoundly visible, that her children were removed from the home

and adopted out.

( Aside, I met the 4 of them about 10 years, ago, in my 40s. They

were placed together with a football coach and his wife, who wanted a

big family and could not have children. They wanted to find and meet

their FOO, and so they did, traveling across 3 states.)

My mom, on the other hand, was a BP. Her mental aberations were NOT as

visible, in fact, as one of you pointed out, they can use flying monkeys

and well meaning friends or church members to manipulate us to be good,

respectful children. No one sees the full picture, and realizes what we

are dealing with. So we are not removed from our homes, we don t have

social workers visit and put an improvement plan in place, or insist on

Nada getting therapy. Our bruises are most often not outwardly

visisble.

Our stories are NOT as dramatic as the kids whose mom blew up the

trailer with a meth lab, yet they are every bit as wounding. And a part

of the FOG, we should nt feel so bad about it, after all it s

just_____.

One of the reasons for my book is to acknowledge and affirm, yes, it was

profoundly wounding. Mental and emotional pain can be very bit as

damaging as physical or sexual abuse. I don t say this to minimize the

impact of those of you who were abused in such a way, but we all know

the words and expectations of our nada s were deeply, profoundly

wounding. It s hard to fight back against FOG, it swirls around your

fist.

First, we recognize it. Then we ll look into how to fight it.

Thanks, all, and keep em coming.

Doug

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