Re: Re: Nada in mental hospital

[Guest guest]

yeah, she would also turn up the radio and headbang while she drove when I

was a teenager. I was like " What the hell is this? " Full on 300 pound woman

driving a ford sedan with a crappy radio, spikey pink and orange hair,

headbanging like a Def Leopard fan. Wow.

>

>

> That is interesting. My nada may also have some OCPD issues going on, but

> not on the side of hoarding. I guess I tend to forget that hoarding is a

> type of OCPD behavior. I knew a woman who hoarded and was trying to get

> help for it, but she didn't ever strike me as BPD though. But could there

> be overlap? Absolutely! And now you've got me thinking lol.

>

> My nada was VERY neat. She would get really ticked off if I had anything on

> my floor that didn't belong, including a pair of socks. What teenager

> doesn't have dirty clothes on the floor at some point? Well, I know one who

> rarely did! lol.

>

> Things also had very specific places they were stored in the house. I think

> that has carried over into me. My brother in laws will put things in what I

> think is odd places when they put the dishes away. It drives me a little

> batty! I'll try to tell them nicely " You know, the kitchen scissors live

> here " and show them LOL. But they either don't care, forget, or do it just

> to bug me haha. And trust me, it's way more than just scissors. I've

> found plates & cups in the cabinet where we keep the plastic storage

> containers. That just makes me want to *facepalm*

>

> But maybe nada had a touch of OCPD too? I can't say for sure... but I do

> remember her cleaning rampages. Most people say " I went on a cleaning spree

> today " or something along those lines. My nada would go into a RAMPAGE! I

> have no idea what would trigger her to start so angrily cleaning at such

> strange hours like 6:30 in the morning on a Saturday... but yep! I can't

> tell you how many Saturday mornings I was woken up pretty early (like 6am

> to

> 8am) by her vacuuming... and not just running the vacuum.. but BASHING the

> damn thing into my closed bedroom door over & over & over. She wasn't happy

> unless everyone was up & miserable & cleaning.. and even then she wasn't

> happy lol. There was no pleasing that woman. And sometimes I'd just stay

> in bed awake to avoid dealing with her because I KNEW she was going to be

> way more awful than usual on the days I woke up to the vacuum bashing. That

> didn't help either to be honest. What's a kid to do? It was a lose-lose

> situation.

>

> I have mentioned the vacuuming thing to people before and we always laugh

> because it's so darn strange! But I guess I don't know enough about OCD to

> have considered maybe she had a touch of it? I honestly don't know... but

> yes, there was a lot of anger with her & FOG with me when it came to

> cleaning and things had to be done just right.

>

> Also, I find the driving thing with your nada really funny... I know it

> must

> have been awful to drive with her, but it sounds so like my grandnada. She

> was infamous for going strange routes for not wanting to make a left turn.

> I

> hated being in the car with her, but I always atributed it to her just

> being

> old? I know that sounds awful but I was young. She moved out of state

> before I was old enough to drive and then moved back (right across the

> street from nada... boy that was ugly) after I was married. So when she did

> come back, she just wouldn't drive unless she absolutely had to. She

> insisted that nada & I take her to every doctor's appointment, grocery

> shopping, etc. She would also sit at her front window from 5:15 until my

> nada got home from work. Grandnada told me this. I asked her why and she

> said because she wanted to make sure my nada got home safe. I have to say,

> looking back at it now it's kind of funny & ironic to me. Because when

> grandnada moved across the street from nada... it was hell for nada! She

> HATED it sooooooo much. Grandnada only lived there for maybe a year or two

> before moving back out of state. Nada was so happy.

>

> Sorry, I'm rambling, but I thought about those things reading your post

> lol.

> Weird how that happens.

>

> Mia

>

> On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 7:55 AM, Girlscout Cowboy <

>

> girlscout.cowboy@... <girlscout.cowboy%40gmail.com>> wrote:

>

> > Yes, the OCPD sounds very familiar. My nada was very very unproductive.

> She

> > would work 16 hours and not accomplish a single task except for making a

> > big

> > mess. She had to do everything in a very specific order and way - as if

> > there were a right or wrong way to do totally ordinary, simple things,

> like

> > changing a kitty litter box (not that she ever did that, it was beneath

> > her,

> > but you get the idea). Here's 2 examples:

> >

> > 1) Baking cookies. She stopped baking cookies by the time I was about 6

> > years old. Though its interesting to me that since I was about 5 I've

> been

> > perfectly capable of baking cookies by myself - so I guess I did learn

> > something. It kills me when I'm around friends who can't bake cookies,

> > prepare a meal, do all the things i've been doing since preschool. I know

> > I'm the weird one not them but it is so strange to me. Anyway, so first

> of

> > all, nada couldn't just make 1 or 2 batches of cookies. It had to be an

> all

> > day project. Like 6 dozen cookies or none. Then she claimed she was

> > allergic

> > to flour. So she would get a huge flour sack dishtowel and tie it across

> > her

> > face. She would then very compulsively follow specific steps to sift and

> > prepare the flour, mix the dry ingredients etc, with the towel over her

> > face

> > almost the entire time. Eventually I think I just started taking care of

> > it.

> > It was painful to watch.

> >

> > 2) Driving. Nada lived in a fairly small town. Yet she refused to ever

> make

> > a left turn. So imagine how long it took to get places. I believe she

> would

> > occaisionally turn left at a stop light, but never ever ever if she had

> to

> > look both ways and decide when to go. So you are driving along and you

> have

> > to go around the block over and over and over until you have gone full

> > circle and avoided the left turn. DUDE!!! It wasn't even a high traffic

> > town. And the funny thing is she loved to be the one to drive but

> everyone

> > hated riding with her.

> >

> > So yeah, I think OCPD with a liberal dose of narcisism and hoarding

> > behavior

> > fits the bill.

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

All while avoiding left turns? lol.

I can't imagine that. My nada was not at all like that lol. She was

very... reserved.

On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Girlscout Cowboy <

girlscout.cowboy@...> wrote:

> yeah, she would also turn up the radio and headbang while she drove when I

> was a teenager. I was like " What the hell is this? " Full on 300 pound woman

> driving a ford sedan with a crappy radio, spikey pink and orange hair,

> headbanging like a Def Leopard fan. Wow.

>

[Guest guest]

Ha ha ha yes ma'am all while avoiding left turns. My dad also called her

ford the " file cabinet on wheels " it was stuffed to the hilt with papers and

junk and crap from the 2nd hand store.

So add that to your mental picture. She was also probably wearing denim,

either a jumper dress or overalls.

It is so bizarre to me that this behavior wasn't noticed by the neighbors.

i'm from a very conservative small religious town. But they thought she was

just a hoot and I was the bad one. Yeah, the one running behind her sweeping

up, cleaning up her messes, making her meals and doing all the chores was

the one with problems.

Dude, society is screwed up!

>

>

> All while avoiding left turns? lol.

> I can't imagine that. My nada was not at all like that lol. She was

> very... reserved.

>

> On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Girlscout Cowboy <

>

> girlscout.cowboy@... <girlscout.cowboy%40gmail.com>> wrote:

>

> > yeah, she would also turn up the radio and headbang while she drove when

> I

> > was a teenager. I was like " What the hell is this? " Full on 300 pound

> woman

> > driving a ford sedan with a crappy radio, spikey pink and orange hair,

> > headbanging like a Def Leopard fan. Wow.

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ha ha ha yes ma'am all while avoiding left turns. My dad also called her

ford the " file cabinet on wheels " it was stuffed to the hilt with papers and

junk and crap from the 2nd hand store.

So add that to your mental picture. She was also probably wearing denim,

either a jumper dress or overalls.

It is so bizarre to me that this behavior wasn't noticed by the neighbors.

i'm from a very conservative small religious town. But they thought she was

just a hoot and I was the bad one. Yeah, the one running behind her sweeping

up, cleaning up her messes, making her meals and doing all the chores was

the one with problems.

Dude, society is screwed up!

>

>

> All while avoiding left turns? lol.

> I can't imagine that. My nada was not at all like that lol. She was

> very... reserved.

>

> On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Girlscout Cowboy <

>

> girlscout.cowboy@... <girlscout.cowboy%40gmail.com>> wrote:

>

> > yeah, she would also turn up the radio and headbang while she drove when

> I

> > was a teenager. I was like " What the hell is this? " Full on 300 pound

> woman

> > driving a ford sedan with a crappy radio, spikey pink and orange hair,

> > headbanging like a Def Leopard fan. Wow.

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ha ha ha yes ma'am all while avoiding left turns. My dad also called her

ford the " file cabinet on wheels " it was stuffed to the hilt with papers and

junk and crap from the 2nd hand store.

So add that to your mental picture. She was also probably wearing denim,

either a jumper dress or overalls.

It is so bizarre to me that this behavior wasn't noticed by the neighbors.

i'm from a very conservative small religious town. But they thought she was

just a hoot and I was the bad one. Yeah, the one running behind her sweeping

up, cleaning up her messes, making her meals and doing all the chores was

the one with problems.

Dude, society is screwed up!

>

>

> All while avoiding left turns? lol.

> I can't imagine that. My nada was not at all like that lol. She was

> very... reserved.

>

> On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Girlscout Cowboy <

>

> girlscout.cowboy@... <girlscout.cowboy%40gmail.com>> wrote:

>

> > yeah, she would also turn up the radio and headbang while she drove when

> I

> > was a teenager. I was like " What the hell is this? " Full on 300 pound

> woman

> > driving a ford sedan with a crappy radio, spikey pink and orange hair,

> > headbanging like a Def Leopard fan. Wow.

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

In regards to " Dude, society is screwed up! " lol, you can say that again!

For you it's bizarre that the neighbors didn't notice. For me, it's bizarre

that my friends' parents DID notice, but never said anything. I reconnected

with a very good friend from high school on facebook. She left me a long

message and near the end asked " how are things with you & your mom? " I

replied and in regards to that, I asked her " Was it that noticeable? " She

wrote back & said, " Yes, we were all worried & thought she might be abusing

you. " I was just so shocked. I had no idea what i lived through was abuse

until I was 29!!! None! My therapist says I had some inclination because I

remember feeling knots in my stomach & thinking things were strange

sometimes... but she also says that when you grow up in it, it seems normal

& you assume everyone lives that way as a kid.

I wish someone had said something to me back then. Maybe I'd be further

ahead on the road to recovery from PTSD & depression. But I shouldn't

complain, I have come a LONG way.

Mia

On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Girlscout Cowboy <

girlscout.cowboy@...> wrote:

> Ha ha ha yes ma'am all while avoiding left turns. My dad also called her

> ford the " file cabinet on wheels " it was stuffed to the hilt with papers

> and

> junk and crap from the 2nd hand store.

>

> So add that to your mental picture. She was also probably wearing denim,

> either a jumper dress or overalls.

>

> It is so bizarre to me that this behavior wasn't noticed by the neighbors.

> i'm from a very conservative small religious town. But they thought she was

> just a hoot and I was the bad one. Yeah, the one running behind her

> sweeping

> up, cleaning up her messes, making her meals and doing all the chores was

> the one with problems.

>

> Dude, society is screwed up!

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > All while avoiding left turns? lol.

> > I can't imagine that. My nada was not at all like that lol. She was

> > very... reserved.

> >

> > On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Girlscout Cowboy <

> >

> > girlscout.cowboy@... <girlscout.cowboy%40gmail.com>> wrote:

> >

> > > yeah, she would also turn up the radio and headbang while she drove

> when

> > I

> > > was a teenager. I was like " What the hell is this? " Full on 300 pound

> > woman

> > > driving a ford sedan with a crappy radio, spikey pink and orange hair,

> > > headbanging like a Def Leopard fan. Wow.

> > >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Excellent point Annie, and that's a great way to look at it. That's one

thing I've learned is that all these behaviors are normal human behaviors,

just taken to extreme/excess/etc. But thinking of it like a bell curve is

helpful, especially since I'm such a visual person lol. Being able to " see "

it in my head will help me to remember things, you know?

Your statement about " My nada was too proud of her expensive vacuum and

furnishings to batter them. (Unlike children, that heal, vacuums have to be

repaired or replaced. " sends chills down my spine. It's so disturbingly

sad, but unfortunately very true when it comes to many of our nadas.

Mia

On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 12:19 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

>

>

> Don't worry; I think that like most (but not all) behaviors there's a

> spectrum or continuum like a Bell-shaped curve, inside which (right in the

> middle) there is the normal range. When the behavior(s) becomes frequent,

> intense, counterproductive and distressing, they've gone into the abnormal

> range: towards either end of the Bell curve.

> So, there's the appalling & repulsively filthy, health-hazard home at one

> end, and the hospital operating-room sterile home full of rigid rules and

> punishments at the other end. Both the home-makers are freaking insane.

>

> Your description of your nada's " cleaning rampages " sound all too

> distressingly familiar to me, except for the " vacuum bashing " part. My nada

> was too proud of her expensive vacuum and furnishings to batter them.

> (Unlike children, that heal, vacuums have to be repaired or replaced.)

>

> But yes, I too think there is a lot of overlap in behaviors amongst the

> Cluster B pds, and some overlap with the behaviors in the other two clusters

> as well.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I love it, but I'd also mention that you are an investigative journalist and

you can expose the scandal any time you want to.

>

>

> Nada has all her rights. She is the one who choose doctors and I can not

> change that (and that is her right). She seems to be happy with this one -

> how not , if he is dancing the way she wants it. And they are obviously all

> the same ( except the first one but he is not in charge for her for her)

>

> So I have an idea ...:-)..How to start (real) communication and to define

> ways of interactions with doctors in this mental hospital.

>

> I 've written a short formal letter to this doctor. Stating all the main

> points of his plans how to treat my nada. ( all unprofessional things he did

> and said) Together with my perspective on the same issue. .And I would ask

> him to officialy confirm me that I undersood our converstatinon correctly (

> to avoid further misinterpretations...:-)) to confirm that this is really

> how they would treat nada. I'll send this letter to the other doctor who

> treat her and to head of this hospital too.

>

> It s too much now to translate all, but just in short ( because of writing

> in other language it would be probably even longer than the original one:-).

>

> I summarise his decisions.

>

> - that they won't treat nada for BPD because she is old , there is no hope

> anymore, because they have not enough place, people or money to do it how it

> should be anyway so they would just just drug her enough that she would be

> less annoying.

>

> - if they won't treat my mother for BPD I asked them at least to consider

> that she is BP because of her diagnose and he told me that this thing with

> personality disorders is a total mess, that nobody know nothing really, that

> they didn't decided yet what to do with that or if it exist anyway. His

> solution -they are going to make another evaluation and find more proper

> diagnose who would be much easier for them.

>

> - They would do that even that my nada meet all of criteria from DSM-IV-TR

> form 2004 and that I've told him how she behave, thing, react...and it is

> copy - paste story form professional books from BPD.

>

> - So their solution now how to deal with nada' her down even if that means

> that we ( meaning I) would obey her crazy demands.

>

> Then I add my perception.

>

> - she is already so full of drugs from their experiments that she has

> allready started to have huge physical problems. If they would drug her

> until she won't be capable of normal living than she would become their

> responsibility not mine. I won't clean the theis mess after their

> unprofessional treatment. They have to deal with their professional

> decisions by themselves. They would not put their work and responsibilities

> on me, sent my nada home even worst that she was whan she was entering their

> institution.

>

> - Unstead of dealing with nada so she could unerstands how to behave, to

> somehow cope with people they would give her what she wants - ( I added

> Annie comaprisment - it is like giving demanding and screaming alhocolic a

> bottle so it would be peace for a while , but on long terms it is the most

> unapropriate thing to do- Thank you Annie!!) I told them that I will not

> contradict their proffesional opinions but I won't cooperate in this because

> I think this is the worst way of handling this situation.

> .

> - I told him that if he is one of those people who belives that children

> should " love " and " forgive " parents and take care for them no matter what

> even if they abused their children - that he has right to have such a

> personal opinion but his work should be based on proffesional not personal

> ones. If some stranges would do the same to little children like my parents

> did to us they would end up in jail. And if anybody around would stoped that

> kind of parent's behavior toward children before or gave parents proper

> treatmant to realy heal they would not screw their lives so completly and

> demand us to abuse us again. My nada born me and this is the reason togheter

> with basic human compassion that I help her so much as I help her now. But

> my nada never was and never behave like my mother and I don't feel I have

> any responsibilty to her as a doughter. Not even because of some religions

> motives or to avoid problems when you touch taboos. If it will be too much

> for me or it would lead to another abuse I would go away completly.

>

> - I found out that that this doctor is 3 on the list of the best payed

> professionals in public health institutes in my country. So I told him that

> if I have this in minde too I'm shocked because of his lack of interest and

> unprofessinalism. And because of the money we all pay for him ( and this

> hospital) I would expect at least a little interes , proper treatment and

> basic respect if not highly professional person who knows what is happening

> in the professional field around the world in the last 10 years not somebody

> who things he already knows anything and didn't bother even to look.

>

> At the end I said that if I misunderstood something I would be glad to talk

> about that but if I get everything right I asked them to confirm me that, so

> I'll know what would be my next steps.

>

> The letter is better written than here (without too much emotions, and more

> calm like it probably sound here but the message is the same) and from my

> work I know that that kind of formal letter could " causes " urgent meeting

> from all involved :-)

>

> So what do you think?

>

> PS: It is so strange . When my kid was little he had had a lot of

> operations and we had spent days and days there. It was the same like now. I

> had had a huge fights for basic things which are now written in their manual

> how to work with little patients and their parents....but before that - I

> was villain, horrible, hysteric, over demanding, crazy.......you name it.

> And now I have a feeling I'm in the same position. Can not help it - can not

> just sit and be quiet:-)

>

> yenaine

>

>

>

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hehehe..you both made my day I allmost fall out of my chair

> laughing...:-))

> > > Keep going.!!! I'll came back to that later.

> > >

> > > So lates news:-) I've been in hospital today and I talked to nada's

> doctor.

> > > He is a complete idiot. I was shocked while listening to him. Not going

> into

> > > details, but his view is: nada is to old to change, we can not do

> anything

> > > more than to give her some medicaments and wait what will happen. His

> idea

> > > how to handle her delusional requests is to do anything to calm her

> down.

> > > For example she has paranoid idea that something is wrong with her

> teeth -

> > > the best it would be to take her to the dentist to calm her down. I

> told him

> > > she was at the same dentist thousant times and that he said to me that

> > > everything is in her head that she has no real troubles. And she has

> > > paranoid idea that something is wrong with some of the documents for

> the

> > > house ( not thruth) so lets take her to a city hall to talk with

> everybody

> > > there so she would calm down. ( she already was there and I know that

> there

> > > is no serious problem with that) When I told him that I won't drop

> anything

> > > to feed her obsessions ( not to mention my really crazy work schedule)

> he

> > > asked me ( with accusing look) " So you do have time to do it but you

> don't

> > > want to do it because you have emotional problems with that ( meaning

> beeing

> > > stubborn) !!!! WTF!!????

> > >

> > > And the answer on my question what they will do with her BPD diagnose (

> I

> > > asked him to consider it when they are working with her) - he is

> planing to

> > > make another evaluation. (HS!!) He probably doesn't believe that BPD

> exists.

> > > He would probably changes her diagnose to get rid of me.

> > >

> > > Of course I sent him to hell - firmly and politely because I didn't

> want to

> > > risk to get some diagnose myself...:-)) I have enough of rigid

> > > unprofessional psychiatrists who don't know anything really about BPD (

> or

> > > any other personality disorders....) who see solution just in

> medicaments to

> > > make zombies out of people so they would make less troubles. I will not

> > > fight or argue with him it is not worth my energy ( it is like talking

> to a

> > > wall- he knows best) and it will not have any positive effects but I'll

> > > stick to my reality and boundaries with nada.

> > >

> > > The good thing is that I don't give a damn. I won't go there, don' t

> play

> > > this game. She follows her decisions and she is responsible for the

> results,

> > > he follows his decisions and he is responsible for his part of the

> outcome

> > > of this situation.. I don't want to take their responsibilities on my

> back -

> > > not any more. It was completely ENOUGH!

> > >

> > > I'm a bit angy of course. But I'm going to redirect this energy from

> anger

> > > to my work and to find some creative souliton how to deal with that -

> so I

> > > can do what I think is best and healthily and right and moral and

> ethically

> > > and I already have some ideas how I might do that. But just to the

> limit it

> > > is ok and right for me to. In other case I'm going to immediately exit

> this

> > > " train " - at least until it became save and ok and right for me to -

> she is

> > > human being ( even if she is the wicked one) so somehow I can't and I

> don't

> > > want to leave her totally.

> > >

> > > Yenaine

> > >

> >

> >

> >