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Re: Nada in mental hospital

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Hi Yenaine,

A couple of times in the past we've had members on here whose BPD

parent was either in a mental hospital or involved somehow with mental health

social services who were told by the staff that their parent's issue (like with

your nada's clothes) was *their* problem to sort out.I guess dumping the

" problem " on the KO makes it less of a liability for the professionals involved

with the PD's case,but it really places an undue and unfair burden onto the

KO.You've handled it really well! Good idea to offer to cover for the social

worker if needs be but having *her* go get nada's clothes.I'll bet she's burnt

out--your nada is totally an effing piece of work.How tiring to have to keep

dodging nada's ploys.

Yes,that new doctor sounds frustrating to deal with.I wonder if they

have to officially record her commitment in the mental hospital as " depression "

since BPD is classified as " untreatable " ? But I agree that it's akin to

disregarding a cancer patient's cancer and saying oh well we'll just give him a

little something for his aches and pains--it's absurd!!!! But we the KOs are the

ones who keenly see the absurdity.I'm glad you can maintain your sense of humor

about it--yeah,I can imagine someone like your nada winning an Academy Award for

her moving performance *and at the same time* switching to pure evil mode if she

is thwarted.That image you gave of her wandering around the ward like a poor

little old abandoned lady having to wear the hospital clothes because " nobody "

cares about her--that she is doing that is *part* of her sickness and there the

nurses are not even understanding that what she's doing is a *symptom* of how

ill she is but feeling sorry for her instead.If she was a schizophrenic who was

lamenting to all and sundry that her heart was breaking because nobody would

accept the fact that she is the sceond coming of Jesus Christ,would anyone take

her seriously? No--the nurses would note that apparently her meds aren't

working...It's amazing the degree of sheer ignorance,even on a mental hosital

ward,of how BPDs display the symptoms of their disease.

The validation you got from her first doctor must have been so

helpful.Thank goodness he was there to set you straight about the legal guardian

thing.He totally got it,didn't he,even down to realizing that your nada would

use it as a *weapon*.That's too much that the nurses were undermining him behind

his back when he really knew what he was doing,but I hope he gets assigned to

your nada's case again.

I feel for you.If those nurses and the new doctor had even the

slightest conception of what your nada has put you through since you were a

child and of how very honorably and ethically you are behaving with her now in

light of how badly *she* has behaved...

Stay strong and take care,

>

> I make a new subject so we don't mix different themas.

>

> Hi !

> They pumped her stomach and did some toxic test and they didn't found nothing

except she is addicted to valium... but because she threatened with suicide they

have to observe her 72 hours and after that they decided to keep her in hospital

because she is in a bad condition ( depression, psychotic...)

>

> Now she is in new department and has a new doctor who is very bad. I called

her doctor today and tell her the story and she told me that my mother clothes

are my problem. I asked her if she really new my mother diagnose and she said

that they don't treat her because of BPD , but because of depression???!!! It is

like if somebody would have cancer and they would said we don't care for cancer

we we'll treat him for feeling sick....??!! Thankfully this doctor goes to

vacation for 3 weeks and nada would have another one who would hopefully will be

more clever and knows better.

>

> Anyway I forbade that any of their stuff ( nurses) call me in the middle of

the night to tell me my nada wishes. I can tell you she didn't like my tone:-)))

Nada was in hospital once before and at that time she was diagnosed with BPD.

Her doctor at that time said to me that he never ever in his career met a

patient who was capable ( like my nada) to manipulate with all the nurses for a

mounth!! before they discovered that she is using them. You should see

her.....she would win reword easily....she can be sweet, tender,

sensitive, fragile, deep, empatic, sad......if she wants to be. And she can be

pure evil if you don't play by her rules. The nurses even worked behind doctor

back ( poor lady is so sweet and nobody understand her..) I hope he will be next

doctor in charge for my nada. He helped me a lot when my nada was in hospital

that first time. Nada convinced me that she is not capable of taking care for

herself anymore than and I decided to become her legal guardian ( caretaker? I

don't now the English word but it means I would legaly take care of her because

she would have status of being legally incapable) He opened my eyes and told me

that I would put in my nada hand the worst possible weapon - she would have all

the possibilities to manipulate with me and I would be legal responible. So I

refuse my nada request and she miraculously gets better and has been living

successfully by herself another 10 years.

>

> About nada clothes ..... I have called social worker and asked her to go to

nada house anyway and take some clothes. She is great - but completely burn out

because of nada but now when we cooperate it is easier for her and for me. She

agreed to go and i said to her if somebody will make some fuss I will cover

her by telling that I didn't tell her that nada doesn't allow to do it. She

takes care for the house anyway and she is inside the house 2 times a week.

>

> After nada gets her clothes I'll buy her some tracksuit for Christmas ( is she

would behave...:-)

> Thanks for your support. Nobody else who didn't experience BPD would not

understand where is the problem:

>

> Yenaine

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Posted
Posted

Hi Yenaine,

A couple of times in the past we've had members on here whose BPD

parent was either in a mental hospital or involved somehow with mental health

social services who were told by the staff that their parent's issue (like with

your nada's clothes) was *their* problem to sort out.I guess dumping the

" problem " on the KO makes it less of a liability for the professionals involved

with the PD's case,but it really places an undue and unfair burden onto the

KO.You've handled it really well! Good idea to offer to cover for the social

worker if needs be but having *her* go get nada's clothes.I'll bet she's burnt

out--your nada is totally an effing piece of work.How tiring to have to keep

dodging nada's ploys.

Yes,that new doctor sounds frustrating to deal with.I wonder if they

have to officially record her commitment in the mental hospital as " depression "

since BPD is classified as " untreatable " ? But I agree that it's akin to

disregarding a cancer patient's cancer and saying oh well we'll just give him a

little something for his aches and pains--it's absurd!!!! But we the KOs are the

ones who keenly see the absurdity.I'm glad you can maintain your sense of humor

about it--yeah,I can imagine someone like your nada winning an Academy Award for

her moving performance *and at the same time* switching to pure evil mode if she

is thwarted.That image you gave of her wandering around the ward like a poor

little old abandoned lady having to wear the hospital clothes because " nobody "

cares about her--that she is doing that is *part* of her sickness and there the

nurses are not even understanding that what she's doing is a *symptom* of how

ill she is but feeling sorry for her instead.If she was a schizophrenic who was

lamenting to all and sundry that her heart was breaking because nobody would

accept the fact that she is the sceond coming of Jesus Christ,would anyone take

her seriously? No--the nurses would note that apparently her meds aren't

working...It's amazing the degree of sheer ignorance,even on a mental hosital

ward,of how BPDs display the symptoms of their disease.

The validation you got from her first doctor must have been so

helpful.Thank goodness he was there to set you straight about the legal guardian

thing.He totally got it,didn't he,even down to realizing that your nada would

use it as a *weapon*.That's too much that the nurses were undermining him behind

his back when he really knew what he was doing,but I hope he gets assigned to

your nada's case again.

I feel for you.If those nurses and the new doctor had even the

slightest conception of what your nada has put you through since you were a

child and of how very honorably and ethically you are behaving with her now in

light of how badly *she* has behaved...

Stay strong and take care,

>

> I make a new subject so we don't mix different themas.

>

> Hi !

> They pumped her stomach and did some toxic test and they didn't found nothing

except she is addicted to valium... but because she threatened with suicide they

have to observe her 72 hours and after that they decided to keep her in hospital

because she is in a bad condition ( depression, psychotic...)

>

> Now she is in new department and has a new doctor who is very bad. I called

her doctor today and tell her the story and she told me that my mother clothes

are my problem. I asked her if she really new my mother diagnose and she said

that they don't treat her because of BPD , but because of depression???!!! It is

like if somebody would have cancer and they would said we don't care for cancer

we we'll treat him for feeling sick....??!! Thankfully this doctor goes to

vacation for 3 weeks and nada would have another one who would hopefully will be

more clever and knows better.

>

> Anyway I forbade that any of their stuff ( nurses) call me in the middle of

the night to tell me my nada wishes. I can tell you she didn't like my tone:-)))

Nada was in hospital once before and at that time she was diagnosed with BPD.

Her doctor at that time said to me that he never ever in his career met a

patient who was capable ( like my nada) to manipulate with all the nurses for a

mounth!! before they discovered that she is using them. You should see

her.....she would win reword easily....she can be sweet, tender,

sensitive, fragile, deep, empatic, sad......if she wants to be. And she can be

pure evil if you don't play by her rules. The nurses even worked behind doctor

back ( poor lady is so sweet and nobody understand her..) I hope he will be next

doctor in charge for my nada. He helped me a lot when my nada was in hospital

that first time. Nada convinced me that she is not capable of taking care for

herself anymore than and I decided to become her legal guardian ( caretaker? I

don't now the English word but it means I would legaly take care of her because

she would have status of being legally incapable) He opened my eyes and told me

that I would put in my nada hand the worst possible weapon - she would have all

the possibilities to manipulate with me and I would be legal responible. So I

refuse my nada request and she miraculously gets better and has been living

successfully by herself another 10 years.

>

> About nada clothes ..... I have called social worker and asked her to go to

nada house anyway and take some clothes. She is great - but completely burn out

because of nada but now when we cooperate it is easier for her and for me. She

agreed to go and i said to her if somebody will make some fuss I will cover

her by telling that I didn't tell her that nada doesn't allow to do it. She

takes care for the house anyway and she is inside the house 2 times a week.

>

> After nada gets her clothes I'll buy her some tracksuit for Christmas ( is she

would behave...:-)

> Thanks for your support. Nobody else who didn't experience BPD would not

understand where is the problem:

>

> Yenaine

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Today I have made a plane for a little revenge for my mother manipulation about

bringing her my clothes to hospital.

Nada always wear black and brown clothes who has to be the cheapest in town.

Today I have bought her some clothes (tracksuit, pajamas, underwear and socks).

I chose the most beautiful , colorful, light colored clothes. They were not

expensive but they for sure look expensive. I just know she would HATE that

clothes. They won't fit in her image of poor , abandoned women. Whenever I

bought her something nice she would put that in closet and never wear it. No she

has no choise :-) And because she always bribes and manipulates others with

gifts she would feel terrible because she would have a feeling that she owe me

something now ( at least a better behavior) It was worth every cent...heheh. I

know it's childish but I can not help it and it made me smile all day long just

to imagine myself with the most innocent look on my face giving her that

clothes. And for sure she would not ask me to give her MY clothes anymore..:-))

Yenaine

> >

> > I make a new subject so we don't mix different themas.

> >

> > Hi !

> > They pumped her stomach and did some toxic test and they didn't found

nothing except she is addicted to valium... but because she threatened with

suicide they have to observe her 72 hours and after that they decided to keep

her in hospital because she is in a bad condition ( depression, psychotic...)

> >

> > Now she is in new department and has a new doctor who is very bad. I called

her doctor today and tell her the story and she told me that my mother clothes

are my problem. I asked her if she really new my mother diagnose and she said

that they don't treat her because of BPD , but because of depression???!!! It is

like if somebody would have cancer and they would said we don't care for cancer

we we'll treat him for feeling sick....??!! Thankfully this doctor goes to

vacation for 3 weeks and nada would have another one who would hopefully will be

more clever and knows better.

> >

> > Anyway I forbade that any of their stuff ( nurses) call me in the middle of

the night to tell me my nada wishes. I can tell you she didn't like my tone:-)))

Nada was in hospital once before and at that time she was diagnosed with BPD.

Her doctor at that time said to me that he never ever in his career met a

patient who was capable ( like my nada) to manipulate with all the nurses for a

mounth!! before they discovered that she is using them. You should see

her.....she would win reword easily....she can be sweet, tender,

sensitive, fragile, deep, empatic, sad......if she wants to be. And she can be

pure evil if you don't play by her rules. The nurses even worked behind doctor

back ( poor lady is so sweet and nobody understand her..) I hope he will be next

doctor in charge for my nada. He helped me a lot when my nada was in hospital

that first time. Nada convinced me that she is not capable of taking care for

herself anymore than and I decided to become her legal guardian ( caretaker? I

don't now the English word but it means I would legaly take care of her because

she would have status of being legally incapable) He opened my eyes and told me

that I would put in my nada hand the worst possible weapon - she would have all

the possibilities to manipulate with me and I would be legal responible. So I

refuse my nada request and she miraculously gets better and has been living

successfully by herself another 10 years.

> >

> > About nada clothes ..... I have called social worker and asked her to go to

nada house anyway and take some clothes. She is great - but completely burn out

because of nada but now when we cooperate it is easier for her and for me. She

agreed to go and i said to her if somebody will make some fuss I will cover

her by telling that I didn't tell her that nada doesn't allow to do it. She

takes care for the house anyway and she is inside the house 2 times a week.

> >

> > After nada gets her clothes I'll buy her some tracksuit for Christmas ( is

she would behave...:-)

> > Thanks for your support. Nobody else who didn't experience BPD would not

understand where is the problem:

> >

> > Yenaine

>

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Posted
Posted

Yenaine, your post made me smile! Your " revenge " of buying your nada

attractive, brand-new clothes to wear is so... creative! And gentle. And not

really " revenge " at all, seems to me.

Your nada, I'm guessing, will choose to continue wearing the tatty hand-me-down

hospital clothes instead of wearing the nice clothes you've bought her, but

that's her choice. Hopefully it will make it more obvious to the nursing staff

that your nada " has a few screws loose " and is *not* being neglected or

mistreated at all.

Good for you!

-Annie

> > >

> > > I make a new subject so we don't mix different themas.

> > >

> > > Hi !

> > > They pumped her stomach and did some toxic test and they didn't found

nothing except she is addicted to valium... but because she threatened with

suicide they have to observe her 72 hours and after that they decided to keep

her in hospital because she is in a bad condition ( depression, psychotic...)

> > >

> > > Now she is in new department and has a new doctor who is very bad. I

called her doctor today and tell her the story and she told me that my mother

clothes are my problem. I asked her if she really new my mother diagnose and she

said that they don't treat her because of BPD , but because of depression???!!!

It is like if somebody would have cancer and they would said we don't care for

cancer we we'll treat him for feeling sick....??!! Thankfully this doctor goes

to vacation for 3 weeks and nada would have another one who would hopefully will

be more clever and knows better.

> > >

> > > Anyway I forbade that any of their stuff ( nurses) call me in the middle

of the night to tell me my nada wishes. I can tell you she didn't like my

tone:-))) Nada was in hospital once before and at that time she was diagnosed

with BPD. Her doctor at that time said to me that he never ever in his career

met a patient who was capable ( like my nada) to manipulate with all the nurses

for a mounth!! before they discovered that she is using them. You should see

her.....she would win reword easily....she can be sweet, tender,

sensitive, fragile, deep, empatic, sad......if she wants to be. And she can be

pure evil if you don't play by her rules. The nurses even worked behind doctor

back ( poor lady is so sweet and nobody understand her..) I hope he will be next

doctor in charge for my nada. He helped me a lot when my nada was in hospital

that first time. Nada convinced me that she is not capable of taking care for

herself anymore than and I decided to become her legal guardian ( caretaker? I

don't now the English word but it means I would legaly take care of her because

she would have status of being legally incapable) He opened my eyes and told me

that I would put in my nada hand the worst possible weapon - she would have all

the possibilities to manipulate with me and I would be legal responible. So I

refuse my nada request and she miraculously gets better and has been living

successfully by herself another 10 years.

> > >

> > > About nada clothes ..... I have called social worker and asked her to go

to nada house anyway and take some clothes. She is great - but completely burn

out because of nada but now when we cooperate it is easier for her and for me.

She agreed to go and i said to her if somebody will make some fuss I will

cover her by telling that I didn't tell her that nada doesn't allow to do it.

She takes care for the house anyway and she is inside the house 2 times a week.

> > >

> > > After nada gets her clothes I'll buy her some tracksuit for Christmas ( is

she would behave...:-)

> > > Thanks for your support. Nobody else who didn't experience BPD would not

understand where is the problem:

> > >

> > > Yenaine

> >

>

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Posted
Posted

Yenaine, your post made me smile! Your " revenge " of buying your nada

attractive, brand-new clothes to wear is so... creative! And gentle. And not

really " revenge " at all, seems to me.

Your nada, I'm guessing, will choose to continue wearing the tatty hand-me-down

hospital clothes instead of wearing the nice clothes you've bought her, but

that's her choice. Hopefully it will make it more obvious to the nursing staff

that your nada " has a few screws loose " and is *not* being neglected or

mistreated at all.

Good for you!

-Annie

> > >

> > > I make a new subject so we don't mix different themas.

> > >

> > > Hi !

> > > They pumped her stomach and did some toxic test and they didn't found

nothing except she is addicted to valium... but because she threatened with

suicide they have to observe her 72 hours and after that they decided to keep

her in hospital because she is in a bad condition ( depression, psychotic...)

> > >

> > > Now she is in new department and has a new doctor who is very bad. I

called her doctor today and tell her the story and she told me that my mother

clothes are my problem. I asked her if she really new my mother diagnose and she

said that they don't treat her because of BPD , but because of depression???!!!

It is like if somebody would have cancer and they would said we don't care for

cancer we we'll treat him for feeling sick....??!! Thankfully this doctor goes

to vacation for 3 weeks and nada would have another one who would hopefully will

be more clever and knows better.

> > >

> > > Anyway I forbade that any of their stuff ( nurses) call me in the middle

of the night to tell me my nada wishes. I can tell you she didn't like my

tone:-))) Nada was in hospital once before and at that time she was diagnosed

with BPD. Her doctor at that time said to me that he never ever in his career

met a patient who was capable ( like my nada) to manipulate with all the nurses

for a mounth!! before they discovered that she is using them. You should see

her.....she would win reword easily....she can be sweet, tender,

sensitive, fragile, deep, empatic, sad......if she wants to be. And she can be

pure evil if you don't play by her rules. The nurses even worked behind doctor

back ( poor lady is so sweet and nobody understand her..) I hope he will be next

doctor in charge for my nada. He helped me a lot when my nada was in hospital

that first time. Nada convinced me that she is not capable of taking care for

herself anymore than and I decided to become her legal guardian ( caretaker? I

don't now the English word but it means I would legaly take care of her because

she would have status of being legally incapable) He opened my eyes and told me

that I would put in my nada hand the worst possible weapon - she would have all

the possibilities to manipulate with me and I would be legal responible. So I

refuse my nada request and she miraculously gets better and has been living

successfully by herself another 10 years.

> > >

> > > About nada clothes ..... I have called social worker and asked her to go

to nada house anyway and take some clothes. She is great - but completely burn

out because of nada but now when we cooperate it is easier for her and for me.

She agreed to go and i said to her if somebody will make some fuss I will

cover her by telling that I didn't tell her that nada doesn't allow to do it.

She takes care for the house anyway and she is inside the house 2 times a week.

> > >

> > > After nada gets her clothes I'll buy her some tracksuit for Christmas ( is

she would behave...:-)

> > > Thanks for your support. Nobody else who didn't experience BPD would not

understand where is the problem:

> > >

> > > Yenaine

> >

>

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Posted
Posted

Yenaine, your post made me smile! Your " revenge " of buying your nada

attractive, brand-new clothes to wear is so... creative! And gentle. And not

really " revenge " at all, seems to me.

Your nada, I'm guessing, will choose to continue wearing the tatty hand-me-down

hospital clothes instead of wearing the nice clothes you've bought her, but

that's her choice. Hopefully it will make it more obvious to the nursing staff

that your nada " has a few screws loose " and is *not* being neglected or

mistreated at all.

Good for you!

-Annie

> > >

> > > I make a new subject so we don't mix different themas.

> > >

> > > Hi !

> > > They pumped her stomach and did some toxic test and they didn't found

nothing except she is addicted to valium... but because she threatened with

suicide they have to observe her 72 hours and after that they decided to keep

her in hospital because she is in a bad condition ( depression, psychotic...)

> > >

> > > Now she is in new department and has a new doctor who is very bad. I

called her doctor today and tell her the story and she told me that my mother

clothes are my problem. I asked her if she really new my mother diagnose and she

said that they don't treat her because of BPD , but because of depression???!!!

It is like if somebody would have cancer and they would said we don't care for

cancer we we'll treat him for feeling sick....??!! Thankfully this doctor goes

to vacation for 3 weeks and nada would have another one who would hopefully will

be more clever and knows better.

> > >

> > > Anyway I forbade that any of their stuff ( nurses) call me in the middle

of the night to tell me my nada wishes. I can tell you she didn't like my

tone:-))) Nada was in hospital once before and at that time she was diagnosed

with BPD. Her doctor at that time said to me that he never ever in his career

met a patient who was capable ( like my nada) to manipulate with all the nurses

for a mounth!! before they discovered that she is using them. You should see

her.....she would win reword easily....she can be sweet, tender,

sensitive, fragile, deep, empatic, sad......if she wants to be. And she can be

pure evil if you don't play by her rules. The nurses even worked behind doctor

back ( poor lady is so sweet and nobody understand her..) I hope he will be next

doctor in charge for my nada. He helped me a lot when my nada was in hospital

that first time. Nada convinced me that she is not capable of taking care for

herself anymore than and I decided to become her legal guardian ( caretaker? I

don't now the English word but it means I would legaly take care of her because

she would have status of being legally incapable) He opened my eyes and told me

that I would put in my nada hand the worst possible weapon - she would have all

the possibilities to manipulate with me and I would be legal responible. So I

refuse my nada request and she miraculously gets better and has been living

successfully by herself another 10 years.

> > >

> > > About nada clothes ..... I have called social worker and asked her to go

to nada house anyway and take some clothes. She is great - but completely burn

out because of nada but now when we cooperate it is easier for her and for me.

She agreed to go and i said to her if somebody will make some fuss I will

cover her by telling that I didn't tell her that nada doesn't allow to do it.

She takes care for the house anyway and she is inside the house 2 times a week.

> > >

> > > After nada gets her clothes I'll buy her some tracksuit for Christmas ( is

she would behave...:-)

> > > Thanks for your support. Nobody else who didn't experience BPD would not

understand where is the problem:

> > >

> > > Yenaine

> >

>

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Posted
Posted

Ha! Yenaine,I don't think your clothes idea is childish--I think it's a splendid

check mate of your nada's little game.Of course being how she is,she is going to

want to find a way to try to trump you back probably,but the main thing here is

that you found a way to smile in such a difficult situation; you found a

positive solution for *you* and I think that's brilliant.The idea of you

innocently handing those bright clothes to her made me smile too :)

Excellent!!!

>

> Today I have made a plane for a little revenge for my mother manipulation

about bringing her my clothes to hospital.

>

> Nada always wear black and brown clothes who has to be the cheapest in town.

Today I have bought her some clothes (tracksuit, pajamas, underwear and socks).

I chose the most beautiful , colorful, light colored clothes. They were not

expensive but they for sure look expensive. I just know she would HATE that

clothes. They won't fit in her image of poor , abandoned women. Whenever I

bought her something nice she would put that in closet and never wear it. No she

has no choise :-) And because she always bribes and manipulates others with

gifts she would feel terrible because she would have a feeling that she owe me

something now ( at least a better behavior) It was worth every cent...heheh. I

know it's childish but I can not help it and it made me smile all day long just

to imagine myself with the most innocent look on my face giving her that

clothes. And for sure she would not ask me to give her MY clothes anymore..:-))

> Yenaine

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Posted
Posted

Ha! Yenaine,I don't think your clothes idea is childish--I think it's a splendid

check mate of your nada's little game.Of course being how she is,she is going to

want to find a way to try to trump you back probably,but the main thing here is

that you found a way to smile in such a difficult situation; you found a

positive solution for *you* and I think that's brilliant.The idea of you

innocently handing those bright clothes to her made me smile too :)

Excellent!!!

>

> Today I have made a plane for a little revenge for my mother manipulation

about bringing her my clothes to hospital.

>

> Nada always wear black and brown clothes who has to be the cheapest in town.

Today I have bought her some clothes (tracksuit, pajamas, underwear and socks).

I chose the most beautiful , colorful, light colored clothes. They were not

expensive but they for sure look expensive. I just know she would HATE that

clothes. They won't fit in her image of poor , abandoned women. Whenever I

bought her something nice she would put that in closet and never wear it. No she

has no choise :-) And because she always bribes and manipulates others with

gifts she would feel terrible because she would have a feeling that she owe me

something now ( at least a better behavior) It was worth every cent...heheh. I

know it's childish but I can not help it and it made me smile all day long just

to imagine myself with the most innocent look on my face giving her that

clothes. And for sure she would not ask me to give her MY clothes anymore..:-))

> Yenaine

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Posted
Posted

Dear Yenaine,

What an ingenius idea! You are beautiful and intelligent soul. I have been

looking forward to reading your posts to see how you are handling all of this.

For me, it's like you're in the BPD trenches fighting the war on the front

lines. I am sitting back in the camp right now just not having to deal with it

too much currently.

Love,

+Coal Miner's Daughter

p.s. Let us know if she wears the nice clothes. I wish she could give up the

illusion of mistreatment and victimhood long enough to enjoy the truly wonderful

daughter she actually has right in front of her. Well, I guess we will enjoy

you for her. :)

>

> heheheh....can you imagine how much troubles I'll make her - she will has

> to completely rearrange her victim role...:-)) ...but I'm sure she 'll find

> a way soon.I was planing to go there tomorrow but I have decided to take

> some time for myself instead. it is a first weekend after a long time that

> I have some time for doing that ( and I'm very tired and exhausted ) so I

> decided to stay home and go there in the middle of the week to see her

> new doctor too. I have asked my FOG to behave - so far it goes well :-))

>

> I don't care about the nurses - I decided long ago not to try to explain or

> do anything just to prove I'm ok or to change people minds. The nurses who

> are qualified will see what it is going on the others who felt into nada

> spell won't. And trying to convince them in my view of reality it would be

> just like playing the same game that nada does. You don't get the results

> you would want 'cos you can never realy change people mind and believes if

> they are not willing to - at least not for long.....) I ll rather put my my

> energy in something more productive...:-))

> have a nice evening

> Yenaine

>

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Posted
Posted

Dear Yenaine,

What an ingenius idea! You are beautiful and intelligent soul. I have been

looking forward to reading your posts to see how you are handling all of this.

For me, it's like you're in the BPD trenches fighting the war on the front

lines. I am sitting back in the camp right now just not having to deal with it

too much currently.

Love,

+Coal Miner's Daughter

p.s. Let us know if she wears the nice clothes. I wish she could give up the

illusion of mistreatment and victimhood long enough to enjoy the truly wonderful

daughter she actually has right in front of her. Well, I guess we will enjoy

you for her. :)

>

> heheheh....can you imagine how much troubles I'll make her - she will has

> to completely rearrange her victim role...:-)) ...but I'm sure she 'll find

> a way soon.I was planing to go there tomorrow but I have decided to take

> some time for myself instead. it is a first weekend after a long time that

> I have some time for doing that ( and I'm very tired and exhausted ) so I

> decided to stay home and go there in the middle of the week to see her

> new doctor too. I have asked my FOG to behave - so far it goes well :-))

>

> I don't care about the nurses - I decided long ago not to try to explain or

> do anything just to prove I'm ok or to change people minds. The nurses who

> are qualified will see what it is going on the others who felt into nada

> spell won't. And trying to convince them in my view of reality it would be

> just like playing the same game that nada does. You don't get the results

> you would want 'cos you can never realy change people mind and believes if

> they are not willing to - at least not for long.....) I ll rather put my my

> energy in something more productive...:-))

> have a nice evening

> Yenaine

>

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Posted
Posted

Dear Yenaine,

What an ingenius idea! You are beautiful and intelligent soul. I have been

looking forward to reading your posts to see how you are handling all of this.

For me, it's like you're in the BPD trenches fighting the war on the front

lines. I am sitting back in the camp right now just not having to deal with it

too much currently.

Love,

+Coal Miner's Daughter

p.s. Let us know if she wears the nice clothes. I wish she could give up the

illusion of mistreatment and victimhood long enough to enjoy the truly wonderful

daughter she actually has right in front of her. Well, I guess we will enjoy

you for her. :)

>

> heheheh....can you imagine how much troubles I'll make her - she will has

> to completely rearrange her victim role...:-)) ...but I'm sure she 'll find

> a way soon.I was planing to go there tomorrow but I have decided to take

> some time for myself instead. it is a first weekend after a long time that

> I have some time for doing that ( and I'm very tired and exhausted ) so I

> decided to stay home and go there in the middle of the week to see her

> new doctor too. I have asked my FOG to behave - so far it goes well :-))

>

> I don't care about the nurses - I decided long ago not to try to explain or

> do anything just to prove I'm ok or to change people minds. The nurses who

> are qualified will see what it is going on the others who felt into nada

> spell won't. And trying to convince them in my view of reality it would be

> just like playing the same game that nada does. You don't get the results

> you would want 'cos you can never realy change people mind and believes if

> they are not willing to - at least not for long.....) I ll rather put my my

> energy in something more productive...:-))

> have a nice evening

> Yenaine

>

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Posted
Posted

Been busy ( I still am..) so I'll be sort.

I haven't visited my nada until today. I have too much work to do. Yesterday she

called me and asked me if I would come. She was almost normal and after 10 +

years I heard her normal voice again ( not her usual childhish poor little me

voice) . I was in shock :-) I already forget how her real voice sound

So I've visited her today with beautiful clothes... ...:-)) ..she asked me if I

can go to store and change everything ( too beautiful, too light colours) ...and

I said If she doesn't like it I can give them to Red cross. She accepted ( and

said she would put that with other nice things I gave her in the past - so she

would not were it) But she " generously " gave me pajamas and this time I

accepted. It always made me crazy when she gave me my gifts back as a gift.

Pajamas is nice and she would remind me every nigth I wear it about my " victory "

that I managed to get out of nada games.

She is much better - almost normal. Because she couldn't use her usual excapes

and manipulations it seems that (after big drama) she had to face realty. For

me it was like a miracle that I can talk almost normal to her. She asked me if

I can arrange for her to go to home for elderly people and if I can help her

selling a house. At the beginning I thought - not again - she talk about that

for years and she never mean it she just use it for attention seeking. But this

time it seems like she mean it

I said to her that she has to think really deeply if she really wants this or

if she really trust me enough ( at this moment I even don't have a key for the

house) and if she would really decide to do that - my condition is that she has

to make me legal representative for selling her house. Before that I would not

do a thing in this direction because I know her too much - she can use me and

my energy and at the end she would change her mind for some stupid reason. And

I would start to sell the house when she would be settled in elderly home not a

moment before.

She seemed to agree but I'll wait for few days and if she would not change her

mind I will request to go to layer to make it official. I know she is scared to

death of layers and possible legal consequences if you brake the contract. It

is sad that I have to do it like that but it is the only was that she would not

change her mind.

I told her this is my last attempt to help her with selling her house and

arrangment for elderly house. If she would blow it I would never help her with

that anymore. She doesn't trust anyone and she is obsessed with that house but

she cant take care for it or for herselve anymore so for her is the only

solution to trust me this time. It would be hard but worth an effort if I can

make her to go to elderly house where she would have proper care.

I'm don't want to be too optimistic so I'll wait and see what will realy

happened but this time I have a feeling there it is a little possibility that it

can be done. If I and otherss will stick to our boundaries.

> >

> > heheheh....can you imagine how much troubles I'll make her - she will has

> > to completely rearrange her victim role...:-)) ...but I'm sure she 'll find

> > a way soon.I was planing to go there tomorrow but I have decided to take

> > some time for myself instead. it is a first weekend after a long time that

> > I have some time for doing that ( and I'm very tired and exhausted ) so I

> > decided to stay home and go there in the middle of the week to see her

> > new doctor too. I have asked my FOG to behave - so far it goes well :-))

> >

> > I don't care about the nurses - I decided long ago not to try to explain or

> > do anything just to prove I'm ok or to change people minds. The nurses who

> > are qualified will see what it is going on the others who felt into nada

> > spell won't. And trying to convince them in my view of reality it would be

> > just like playing the same game that nada does. You don't get the results

> > you would want 'cos you can never realy change people mind and believes if

> > they are not willing to - at least not for long.....) I ll rather put my my

> > energy in something more productive...:-))

> > have a nice evening

> > Yenaine

> >

>

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Posted
Posted

Been busy ( I still am..) so I'll be sort.

I haven't visited my nada until today. I have too much work to do. Yesterday she

called me and asked me if I would come. She was almost normal and after 10 +

years I heard her normal voice again ( not her usual childhish poor little me

voice) . I was in shock :-) I already forget how her real voice sound

So I've visited her today with beautiful clothes... ...:-)) ..she asked me if I

can go to store and change everything ( too beautiful, too light colours) ...and

I said If she doesn't like it I can give them to Red cross. She accepted ( and

said she would put that with other nice things I gave her in the past - so she

would not were it) But she " generously " gave me pajamas and this time I

accepted. It always made me crazy when she gave me my gifts back as a gift.

Pajamas is nice and she would remind me every nigth I wear it about my " victory "

that I managed to get out of nada games.

She is much better - almost normal. Because she couldn't use her usual excapes

and manipulations it seems that (after big drama) she had to face realty. For

me it was like a miracle that I can talk almost normal to her. She asked me if

I can arrange for her to go to home for elderly people and if I can help her

selling a house. At the beginning I thought - not again - she talk about that

for years and she never mean it she just use it for attention seeking. But this

time it seems like she mean it

I said to her that she has to think really deeply if she really wants this or

if she really trust me enough ( at this moment I even don't have a key for the

house) and if she would really decide to do that - my condition is that she has

to make me legal representative for selling her house. Before that I would not

do a thing in this direction because I know her too much - she can use me and

my energy and at the end she would change her mind for some stupid reason. And

I would start to sell the house when she would be settled in elderly home not a

moment before.

She seemed to agree but I'll wait for few days and if she would not change her

mind I will request to go to layer to make it official. I know she is scared to

death of layers and possible legal consequences if you brake the contract. It

is sad that I have to do it like that but it is the only was that she would not

change her mind.

I told her this is my last attempt to help her with selling her house and

arrangment for elderly house. If she would blow it I would never help her with

that anymore. She doesn't trust anyone and she is obsessed with that house but

she cant take care for it or for herselve anymore so for her is the only

solution to trust me this time. It would be hard but worth an effort if I can

make her to go to elderly house where she would have proper care.

I'm don't want to be too optimistic so I'll wait and see what will realy

happened but this time I have a feeling there it is a little possibility that it

can be done. If I and otherss will stick to our boundaries.

> >

> > heheheh....can you imagine how much troubles I'll make her - she will has

> > to completely rearrange her victim role...:-)) ...but I'm sure she 'll find

> > a way soon.I was planing to go there tomorrow but I have decided to take

> > some time for myself instead. it is a first weekend after a long time that

> > I have some time for doing that ( and I'm very tired and exhausted ) so I

> > decided to stay home and go there in the middle of the week to see her

> > new doctor too. I have asked my FOG to behave - so far it goes well :-))

> >

> > I don't care about the nurses - I decided long ago not to try to explain or

> > do anything just to prove I'm ok or to change people minds. The nurses who

> > are qualified will see what it is going on the others who felt into nada

> > spell won't. And trying to convince them in my view of reality it would be

> > just like playing the same game that nada does. You don't get the results

> > you would want 'cos you can never realy change people mind and believes if

> > they are not willing to - at least not for long.....) I ll rather put my my

> > energy in something more productive...:-))

> > have a nice evening

> > Yenaine

> >

>

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Posted
Posted

Wow,Yenaine,that was quite a visit.It sounds like it went much better than you

were expecting?

Just curious: is your nada on any meds at the hospital or is she still

taking Valium? If you know.

What you said about the Red Cross made me chuckle.I know it isn't really

funny but I can imagine you must have said to her that if she doesn't like

it.... so calmly and matter of factly that it's brilliant :) and so she had to

accept it...I've said things like that to my nada too and it *is* satisfying.

But she isn't going to wear them! She's got clothes now!

Aaah,nadas...Does she still have the hospital clothes on or has she got her

black and brown stuff from home?

By all means,wear those pyjamas with a smile :)

I think you're wise not to get overly optimistic and it was also very

smart of you to say both that this is her last chance for you to help with the

house situation and also to say that you won't get started with selling the

house until she's definitely in a nursing home.Which...hopefully she *will* go

to....And your open ended approach is great,too.It sounds to me like you handled

it perfectly,as well as anyone possibly could: you set clear boundaries and gave

clear,simple explanations and you kept it from becoming a drama.Well done!!!

In a way it's sad that you'd have to make the house selling process a

bit intimidating for her (by involving lawyers when she is scared of them) but

if that's the best way to ensure she ends up in a place where she is cared

for,then so be it.And it could be that having an intimidating " authority "

involved who could effect consequences for nada if she misbehaves isn't such a

bad thing really since it could be the only thing that would keep her on track

to actually going forward with the plan.

Anyway thanks for sharing your news of how it's going along with your

nada and of course please keep us updated if you can! I hope it all turns out

for the best.

>

> Been busy ( I still am..) so I'll be sort.

> I haven't visited my nada until today. I have too much work to do. Yesterday

she called me and asked me if I would come. She was almost normal and after 10 +

years I heard her normal voice again ( not her usual childhish poor little me

voice) . I was in shock :-) I already forget how her real voice sound

>

> So I've visited her today with beautiful clothes... ...:-)) ..she asked me if

I can go to store and change everything ( too beautiful, too light colours)

....and I said If she doesn't like it I can give them to Red cross. She accepted

( and said she would put that with other nice things I gave her in the past - so

she would not were it) But she " generously " gave me pajamas and this time I

accepted. It always made me crazy when she gave me my gifts back as a gift.

Pajamas is nice and she would remind me every nigth I wear it about my " victory "

that I managed to get out of nada games.

>

> She is much better - almost normal. Because she couldn't use her usual excapes

and manipulations it seems that (after big drama) she had to face realty. For

me it was like a miracle that I can talk almost normal to her. She asked me if

I can arrange for her to go to home for elderly people and if I can help her

selling a house. At the beginning I thought - not again - she talk about that

for years and she never mean it she just use it for attention seeking. But this

time it seems like she mean it

>

> I said to her that she has to think really deeply if she really wants this or

if she really trust me enough ( at this moment I even don't have a key for the

house) and if she would really decide to do that - my condition is that she has

to make me legal representative for selling her house. Before that I would not

do a thing in this direction because I know her too much - she can use me and

my energy and at the end she would change her mind for some stupid reason. And

I would start to sell the house when she would be settled in elderly home not a

moment before.

>

> She seemed to agree but I'll wait for few days and if she would not change

her mind I will request to go to layer to make it official. I know she is scared

to death of layers and possible legal consequences if you brake the contract.

It is sad that I have to do it like that but it is the only was that she would

not change her mind.

>

> I told her this is my last attempt to help her with selling her house and

arrangment for elderly house. If she would blow it I would never help her with

that anymore. She doesn't trust anyone and she is obsessed with that house but

she cant take care for it or for herselve anymore so for her is the only

solution to trust me this time. It would be hard but worth an effort if I can

make her to go to elderly house where she would have proper care.

>

> I'm don't want to be too optimistic so I'll wait and see what will realy

happened but this time I have a feeling there it is a little possibility that it

can be done. If I and otherss will stick to our boundaries.

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Posted
Posted

Wow,Yenaine,that was quite a visit.It sounds like it went much better than you

were expecting?

Just curious: is your nada on any meds at the hospital or is she still

taking Valium? If you know.

What you said about the Red Cross made me chuckle.I know it isn't really

funny but I can imagine you must have said to her that if she doesn't like

it.... so calmly and matter of factly that it's brilliant :) and so she had to

accept it...I've said things like that to my nada too and it *is* satisfying.

But she isn't going to wear them! She's got clothes now!

Aaah,nadas...Does she still have the hospital clothes on or has she got her

black and brown stuff from home?

By all means,wear those pyjamas with a smile :)

I think you're wise not to get overly optimistic and it was also very

smart of you to say both that this is her last chance for you to help with the

house situation and also to say that you won't get started with selling the

house until she's definitely in a nursing home.Which...hopefully she *will* go

to....And your open ended approach is great,too.It sounds to me like you handled

it perfectly,as well as anyone possibly could: you set clear boundaries and gave

clear,simple explanations and you kept it from becoming a drama.Well done!!!

In a way it's sad that you'd have to make the house selling process a

bit intimidating for her (by involving lawyers when she is scared of them) but

if that's the best way to ensure she ends up in a place where she is cared

for,then so be it.And it could be that having an intimidating " authority "

involved who could effect consequences for nada if she misbehaves isn't such a

bad thing really since it could be the only thing that would keep her on track

to actually going forward with the plan.

Anyway thanks for sharing your news of how it's going along with your

nada and of course please keep us updated if you can! I hope it all turns out

for the best.

>

> Been busy ( I still am..) so I'll be sort.

> I haven't visited my nada until today. I have too much work to do. Yesterday

she called me and asked me if I would come. She was almost normal and after 10 +

years I heard her normal voice again ( not her usual childhish poor little me

voice) . I was in shock :-) I already forget how her real voice sound

>

> So I've visited her today with beautiful clothes... ...:-)) ..she asked me if

I can go to store and change everything ( too beautiful, too light colours)

....and I said If she doesn't like it I can give them to Red cross. She accepted

( and said she would put that with other nice things I gave her in the past - so

she would not were it) But she " generously " gave me pajamas and this time I

accepted. It always made me crazy when she gave me my gifts back as a gift.

Pajamas is nice and she would remind me every nigth I wear it about my " victory "

that I managed to get out of nada games.

>

> She is much better - almost normal. Because she couldn't use her usual excapes

and manipulations it seems that (after big drama) she had to face realty. For

me it was like a miracle that I can talk almost normal to her. She asked me if

I can arrange for her to go to home for elderly people and if I can help her

selling a house. At the beginning I thought - not again - she talk about that

for years and she never mean it she just use it for attention seeking. But this

time it seems like she mean it

>

> I said to her that she has to think really deeply if she really wants this or

if she really trust me enough ( at this moment I even don't have a key for the

house) and if she would really decide to do that - my condition is that she has

to make me legal representative for selling her house. Before that I would not

do a thing in this direction because I know her too much - she can use me and

my energy and at the end she would change her mind for some stupid reason. And

I would start to sell the house when she would be settled in elderly home not a

moment before.

>

> She seemed to agree but I'll wait for few days and if she would not change

her mind I will request to go to layer to make it official. I know she is scared

to death of layers and possible legal consequences if you brake the contract.

It is sad that I have to do it like that but it is the only was that she would

not change her mind.

>

> I told her this is my last attempt to help her with selling her house and

arrangment for elderly house. If she would blow it I would never help her with

that anymore. She doesn't trust anyone and she is obsessed with that house but

she cant take care for it or for herselve anymore so for her is the only

solution to trust me this time. It would be hard but worth an effort if I can

make her to go to elderly house where she would have proper care.

>

> I'm don't want to be too optimistic so I'll wait and see what will realy

happened but this time I have a feeling there it is a little possibility that it

can be done. If I and otherss will stick to our boundaries.

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Posted
Posted

Wow,Yenaine,that was quite a visit.It sounds like it went much better than you

were expecting?

Just curious: is your nada on any meds at the hospital or is she still

taking Valium? If you know.

What you said about the Red Cross made me chuckle.I know it isn't really

funny but I can imagine you must have said to her that if she doesn't like

it.... so calmly and matter of factly that it's brilliant :) and so she had to

accept it...I've said things like that to my nada too and it *is* satisfying.

But she isn't going to wear them! She's got clothes now!

Aaah,nadas...Does she still have the hospital clothes on or has she got her

black and brown stuff from home?

By all means,wear those pyjamas with a smile :)

I think you're wise not to get overly optimistic and it was also very

smart of you to say both that this is her last chance for you to help with the

house situation and also to say that you won't get started with selling the

house until she's definitely in a nursing home.Which...hopefully she *will* go

to....And your open ended approach is great,too.It sounds to me like you handled

it perfectly,as well as anyone possibly could: you set clear boundaries and gave

clear,simple explanations and you kept it from becoming a drama.Well done!!!

In a way it's sad that you'd have to make the house selling process a

bit intimidating for her (by involving lawyers when she is scared of them) but

if that's the best way to ensure she ends up in a place where she is cared

for,then so be it.And it could be that having an intimidating " authority "

involved who could effect consequences for nada if she misbehaves isn't such a

bad thing really since it could be the only thing that would keep her on track

to actually going forward with the plan.

Anyway thanks for sharing your news of how it's going along with your

nada and of course please keep us updated if you can! I hope it all turns out

for the best.

>

> Been busy ( I still am..) so I'll be sort.

> I haven't visited my nada until today. I have too much work to do. Yesterday

she called me and asked me if I would come. She was almost normal and after 10 +

years I heard her normal voice again ( not her usual childhish poor little me

voice) . I was in shock :-) I already forget how her real voice sound

>

> So I've visited her today with beautiful clothes... ...:-)) ..she asked me if

I can go to store and change everything ( too beautiful, too light colours)

....and I said If she doesn't like it I can give them to Red cross. She accepted

( and said she would put that with other nice things I gave her in the past - so

she would not were it) But she " generously " gave me pajamas and this time I

accepted. It always made me crazy when she gave me my gifts back as a gift.

Pajamas is nice and she would remind me every nigth I wear it about my " victory "

that I managed to get out of nada games.

>

> She is much better - almost normal. Because she couldn't use her usual excapes

and manipulations it seems that (after big drama) she had to face realty. For

me it was like a miracle that I can talk almost normal to her. She asked me if

I can arrange for her to go to home for elderly people and if I can help her

selling a house. At the beginning I thought - not again - she talk about that

for years and she never mean it she just use it for attention seeking. But this

time it seems like she mean it

>

> I said to her that she has to think really deeply if she really wants this or

if she really trust me enough ( at this moment I even don't have a key for the

house) and if she would really decide to do that - my condition is that she has

to make me legal representative for selling her house. Before that I would not

do a thing in this direction because I know her too much - she can use me and

my energy and at the end she would change her mind for some stupid reason. And

I would start to sell the house when she would be settled in elderly home not a

moment before.

>

> She seemed to agree but I'll wait for few days and if she would not change

her mind I will request to go to layer to make it official. I know she is scared

to death of layers and possible legal consequences if you brake the contract.

It is sad that I have to do it like that but it is the only was that she would

not change her mind.

>

> I told her this is my last attempt to help her with selling her house and

arrangment for elderly house. If she would blow it I would never help her with

that anymore. She doesn't trust anyone and she is obsessed with that house but

she cant take care for it or for herselve anymore so for her is the only

solution to trust me this time. It would be hard but worth an effort if I can

make her to go to elderly house where she would have proper care.

>

> I'm don't want to be too optimistic so I'll wait and see what will realy

happened but this time I have a feeling there it is a little possibility that it

can be done. If I and otherss will stick to our boundaries.

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Posted
Posted

Yes it was surprise for me and validation that I'm on the right track whit what

I'm doing. But I don't believe the " good " moment will last long :-)

She has already weawed her strings ( persuading her social worker in hospital

to call me and tell me.....bla bla..) But the social worker was ok, she

understood the situation. So she would not allow nada using her anymore.

But the new doctor sucks completely. I heard him on telephone - older, probably

very Christian and he doesn't think that he should address nada real illnes -

BPD because she is too old and any improuvement is imposiible he thinks. They

treat her for depression. He gives her some antidepressant and antipshiotic and

that is it. He doesn't know BPD really and don't understand anything about a

boundaries. He is probably the tipe - we can not do anything and your nada is so

old and poore and you are her kid, don't bother her now with all that stress,

have a little patientce........... I'll deal with him in Thursday when we'll met

in person. But I fear that he will be easy target for nadas manipulations.

But the funny think is that I don't really care anymore. I don't look at

situation so personal like before. I will do all the good I can - but not on my

cost any more. Enough. It is not good for me and at the end it is not good for

her too. Momentarily I see two solutions:

1. Nada does what she said she would do and I help her as much as I can ( not a

milimeter more) together with all the boundaries she has to respect or

2. She will manage to find enough people to manipulate so she can continue her

life as miserable as now. In this case I won't be enough important to her to

listen to me or follow the rules. She would have me by herself " just in case "

if anything other fails. If the doctors will be so unprofessional and they

won't recognize and understand her real problem - than is their problem. I know

her. She is obsessed with her garden and whenever she can work there she is ok.

Problem is winter time when she has nothing to do on her garden. So she would

probably be " miracuasly " cured in spring , she will go home and at winter time

she would fake suicide attempt again - and they would be obliged to accepted

her The hospital will be her winter " house " .If that would be the case I will

respect her decisions and actions but I wount play her game at all. I'll stick

to my boundaries and with what I think is right. After few years when doctors in

hospital get is...:-)) ....we''ll be probably at the same point like we are now

with nada ( and hospital stuff on the edge of nerve brake and everybody on bad

terms with everybody)

But life can surprise you so we'll se what will really happen......:-))

Than you for concern!!!

Yenaine

> >

> > Been busy ( I still am..) so I'll be sort.

> > I haven't visited my nada until today. I have too much work to do. Yesterday

she called me and asked me if I would come. She was almost normal and after 10 +

years I heard her normal voice again ( not her usual childhish poor little me

voice) . I was in shock :-) I already forget how her real voice sound

> >

> > So I've visited her today with beautiful clothes... ...:-)) ..she asked me

if I can go to store and change everything ( too beautiful, too light colours)

....and I said If she doesn't like it I can give them to Red cross. She accepted

( and said she would put that with other nice things I gave her in the past - so

she would not were it) But she " generously " gave me pajamas and this time I

accepted. It always made me crazy when she gave me my gifts back as a gift.

Pajamas is nice and she would remind me every nigth I wear it about my " victory "

that I managed to get out of nada games.

> >

> > She is much better - almost normal. Because she couldn't use her usual

excapes and manipulations it seems that (after big drama) she had to face

realty. For me it was like a miracle that I can talk almost normal to her. She

asked me if I can arrange for her to go to home for elderly people and if I can

help her selling a house. At the beginning I thought - not again - she talk

about that for years and she never mean it she just use it for attention

seeking. But this time it seems like she mean it

> >

> > I said to her that she has to think really deeply if she really wants this

or if she really trust me enough ( at this moment I even don't have a key for

the house) and if she would really decide to do that - my condition is that she

has to make me legal representative for selling her house. Before that I would

not do a thing in this direction because I know her too much - she can use me

and my energy and at the end she would change her mind for some stupid reason.

And I would start to sell the house when she would be settled in elderly home

not a moment before.

> >

> > She seemed to agree but I'll wait for few days and if she would not change

her mind I will request to go to layer to make it official. I know she is scared

to death of layers and possible legal consequences if you brake the contract.

It is sad that I have to do it like that but it is the only was that she would

not change her mind.

> >

> > I told her this is my last attempt to help her with selling her house and

arrangment for elderly house. If she would blow it I would never help her with

that anymore. She doesn't trust anyone and she is obsessed with that house but

she cant take care for it or for herselve anymore so for her is the only

solution to trust me this time. It would be hard but worth an effort if I can

make her to go to elderly house where she would have proper care.

> >

> > I'm don't want to be too optimistic so I'll wait and see what will realy

happened but this time I have a feeling there it is a little possibility that it

can be done. If I and otherss will stick to our boundaries.

>

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Posted
Posted

Yes it was surprise for me and validation that I'm on the right track whit what

I'm doing. But I don't believe the " good " moment will last long :-)

She has already weawed her strings ( persuading her social worker in hospital

to call me and tell me.....bla bla..) But the social worker was ok, she

understood the situation. So she would not allow nada using her anymore.

But the new doctor sucks completely. I heard him on telephone - older, probably

very Christian and he doesn't think that he should address nada real illnes -

BPD because she is too old and any improuvement is imposiible he thinks. They

treat her for depression. He gives her some antidepressant and antipshiotic and

that is it. He doesn't know BPD really and don't understand anything about a

boundaries. He is probably the tipe - we can not do anything and your nada is so

old and poore and you are her kid, don't bother her now with all that stress,

have a little patientce........... I'll deal with him in Thursday when we'll met

in person. But I fear that he will be easy target for nadas manipulations.

But the funny think is that I don't really care anymore. I don't look at

situation so personal like before. I will do all the good I can - but not on my

cost any more. Enough. It is not good for me and at the end it is not good for

her too. Momentarily I see two solutions:

1. Nada does what she said she would do and I help her as much as I can ( not a

milimeter more) together with all the boundaries she has to respect or

2. She will manage to find enough people to manipulate so she can continue her

life as miserable as now. In this case I won't be enough important to her to

listen to me or follow the rules. She would have me by herself " just in case "

if anything other fails. If the doctors will be so unprofessional and they

won't recognize and understand her real problem - than is their problem. I know

her. She is obsessed with her garden and whenever she can work there she is ok.

Problem is winter time when she has nothing to do on her garden. So she would

probably be " miracuasly " cured in spring , she will go home and at winter time

she would fake suicide attempt again - and they would be obliged to accepted

her The hospital will be her winter " house " .If that would be the case I will

respect her decisions and actions but I wount play her game at all. I'll stick

to my boundaries and with what I think is right. After few years when doctors in

hospital get is...:-)) ....we''ll be probably at the same point like we are now

with nada ( and hospital stuff on the edge of nerve brake and everybody on bad

terms with everybody)

But life can surprise you so we'll se what will really happen......:-))

Than you for concern!!!

Yenaine

> >

> > Been busy ( I still am..) so I'll be sort.

> > I haven't visited my nada until today. I have too much work to do. Yesterday

she called me and asked me if I would come. She was almost normal and after 10 +

years I heard her normal voice again ( not her usual childhish poor little me

voice) . I was in shock :-) I already forget how her real voice sound

> >

> > So I've visited her today with beautiful clothes... ...:-)) ..she asked me

if I can go to store and change everything ( too beautiful, too light colours)

....and I said If she doesn't like it I can give them to Red cross. She accepted

( and said she would put that with other nice things I gave her in the past - so

she would not were it) But she " generously " gave me pajamas and this time I

accepted. It always made me crazy when she gave me my gifts back as a gift.

Pajamas is nice and she would remind me every nigth I wear it about my " victory "

that I managed to get out of nada games.

> >

> > She is much better - almost normal. Because she couldn't use her usual

excapes and manipulations it seems that (after big drama) she had to face

realty. For me it was like a miracle that I can talk almost normal to her. She

asked me if I can arrange for her to go to home for elderly people and if I can

help her selling a house. At the beginning I thought - not again - she talk

about that for years and she never mean it she just use it for attention

seeking. But this time it seems like she mean it

> >

> > I said to her that she has to think really deeply if she really wants this

or if she really trust me enough ( at this moment I even don't have a key for

the house) and if she would really decide to do that - my condition is that she

has to make me legal representative for selling her house. Before that I would

not do a thing in this direction because I know her too much - she can use me

and my energy and at the end she would change her mind for some stupid reason.

And I would start to sell the house when she would be settled in elderly home

not a moment before.

> >

> > She seemed to agree but I'll wait for few days and if she would not change

her mind I will request to go to layer to make it official. I know she is scared

to death of layers and possible legal consequences if you brake the contract.

It is sad that I have to do it like that but it is the only was that she would

not change her mind.

> >

> > I told her this is my last attempt to help her with selling her house and

arrangment for elderly house. If she would blow it I would never help her with

that anymore. She doesn't trust anyone and she is obsessed with that house but

she cant take care for it or for herselve anymore so for her is the only

solution to trust me this time. It would be hard but worth an effort if I can

make her to go to elderly house where she would have proper care.

> >

> > I'm don't want to be too optimistic so I'll wait and see what will realy

happened but this time I have a feeling there it is a little possibility that it

can be done. If I and otherss will stick to our boundaries.

>

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Posted
Posted

Yes it was surprise for me and validation that I'm on the right track whit what

I'm doing. But I don't believe the " good " moment will last long :-)

She has already weawed her strings ( persuading her social worker in hospital

to call me and tell me.....bla bla..) But the social worker was ok, she

understood the situation. So she would not allow nada using her anymore.

But the new doctor sucks completely. I heard him on telephone - older, probably

very Christian and he doesn't think that he should address nada real illnes -

BPD because she is too old and any improuvement is imposiible he thinks. They

treat her for depression. He gives her some antidepressant and antipshiotic and

that is it. He doesn't know BPD really and don't understand anything about a

boundaries. He is probably the tipe - we can not do anything and your nada is so

old and poore and you are her kid, don't bother her now with all that stress,

have a little patientce........... I'll deal with him in Thursday when we'll met

in person. But I fear that he will be easy target for nadas manipulations.

But the funny think is that I don't really care anymore. I don't look at

situation so personal like before. I will do all the good I can - but not on my

cost any more. Enough. It is not good for me and at the end it is not good for

her too. Momentarily I see two solutions:

1. Nada does what she said she would do and I help her as much as I can ( not a

milimeter more) together with all the boundaries she has to respect or

2. She will manage to find enough people to manipulate so she can continue her

life as miserable as now. In this case I won't be enough important to her to

listen to me or follow the rules. She would have me by herself " just in case "

if anything other fails. If the doctors will be so unprofessional and they

won't recognize and understand her real problem - than is their problem. I know

her. She is obsessed with her garden and whenever she can work there she is ok.

Problem is winter time when she has nothing to do on her garden. So she would

probably be " miracuasly " cured in spring , she will go home and at winter time

she would fake suicide attempt again - and they would be obliged to accepted

her The hospital will be her winter " house " .If that would be the case I will

respect her decisions and actions but I wount play her game at all. I'll stick

to my boundaries and with what I think is right. After few years when doctors in

hospital get is...:-)) ....we''ll be probably at the same point like we are now

with nada ( and hospital stuff on the edge of nerve brake and everybody on bad

terms with everybody)

But life can surprise you so we'll se what will really happen......:-))

Than you for concern!!!

Yenaine

> >

> > Been busy ( I still am..) so I'll be sort.

> > I haven't visited my nada until today. I have too much work to do. Yesterday

she called me and asked me if I would come. She was almost normal and after 10 +

years I heard her normal voice again ( not her usual childhish poor little me

voice) . I was in shock :-) I already forget how her real voice sound

> >

> > So I've visited her today with beautiful clothes... ...:-)) ..she asked me

if I can go to store and change everything ( too beautiful, too light colours)

....and I said If she doesn't like it I can give them to Red cross. She accepted

( and said she would put that with other nice things I gave her in the past - so

she would not were it) But she " generously " gave me pajamas and this time I

accepted. It always made me crazy when she gave me my gifts back as a gift.

Pajamas is nice and she would remind me every nigth I wear it about my " victory "

that I managed to get out of nada games.

> >

> > She is much better - almost normal. Because she couldn't use her usual

excapes and manipulations it seems that (after big drama) she had to face

realty. For me it was like a miracle that I can talk almost normal to her. She

asked me if I can arrange for her to go to home for elderly people and if I can

help her selling a house. At the beginning I thought - not again - she talk

about that for years and she never mean it she just use it for attention

seeking. But this time it seems like she mean it

> >

> > I said to her that she has to think really deeply if she really wants this

or if she really trust me enough ( at this moment I even don't have a key for

the house) and if she would really decide to do that - my condition is that she

has to make me legal representative for selling her house. Before that I would

not do a thing in this direction because I know her too much - she can use me

and my energy and at the end she would change her mind for some stupid reason.

And I would start to sell the house when she would be settled in elderly home

not a moment before.

> >

> > She seemed to agree but I'll wait for few days and if she would not change

her mind I will request to go to layer to make it official. I know she is scared

to death of layers and possible legal consequences if you brake the contract.

It is sad that I have to do it like that but it is the only was that she would

not change her mind.

> >

> > I told her this is my last attempt to help her with selling her house and

arrangment for elderly house. If she would blow it I would never help her with

that anymore. She doesn't trust anyone and she is obsessed with that house but

she cant take care for it or for herselve anymore so for her is the only

solution to trust me this time. It would be hard but worth an effort if I can

make her to go to elderly house where she would have proper care.

> >

> > I'm don't want to be too optimistic so I'll wait and see what will realy

happened but this time I have a feeling there it is a little possibility that it

can be done. If I and otherss will stick to our boundaries.

>

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Hi Yenaine,

Sorry to hear the new doctor sucks :( I remember you were hoping that

when the useless doctor your nada had went on vacation that the next doctor

would be better.It sounds like he isn't getting that *containment* of her

manipulation by setting boundaries is possible and important...I wonder if he

would listen if you explained that to him? That the goal at this point doesn't

need to be improvement but containment?

Well anyway I know it's so hard to enlighten other people to what we

have lived and what we have learned are the only " solutions " .Doctors aren't

really *in* it,to get it,most of them.

Not being so emotionally invested in the outcome is good for you.You

just can't control all these variables: nada being how she is,the hospital staff

being how they are...really the only thing you can control is your own reaction

and not looking at it so personally is healthy.You truly have done your best and

you've been awesome with sticking to boundaries with your nada---the way that

you've handled her hospitalization is a great example of how to deal with such a

situation: you've done everything right.

Not playing nada's games with her is still a victory for you,no matter

how it turns out.If the hospital staff has to learn the hard way,that really is

their problem,not yours.

I hope that life will surprise you this time,though...You never

know,but you're wise not to hold your breath.I sincerely admire how well you've

handled the situation--it's got to be hard knowing more about BPD than the

supposed " professionals " .

I know you're busy so no need to reply.Just know that I'm wishing you

all the best and sending you supportive thoughts :)

>

>

> Yes it was surprise for me and validation that I'm on the right track whit

what I'm doing. But I don't believe the " good " moment will last long :-)

>

> She has already weawed her strings ( persuading her social worker in hospital

to call me and tell me.....bla bla..) But the social worker was ok, she

understood the situation. So she would not allow nada using her anymore.

>

> But the new doctor sucks completely. I heard him on telephone - older,

probably very Christian and he doesn't think that he should address nada real

illnes - BPD because she is too old and any improuvement is imposiible he

thinks. They treat her for depression. He gives her some antidepressant and

antipshiotic and that is it. He doesn't know BPD really and don't understand

anything about a boundaries. He is probably the tipe - we can not do anything

and your nada is so old and poore and you are her kid, don't bother her now

with all that stress, have a little patientce........... I'll deal with him in

Thursday when we'll met in person. But I fear that he will be easy target for

nadas manipulations.

>

> But the funny think is that I don't really care anymore. I don't look at

situation so personal like before. I will do all the good I can - but not on my

cost any more. Enough. It is not good for me and at the end it is not good for

her too. Momentarily I see two solutions:

>

> 1. Nada does what she said she would do and I help her as much as I can ( not

a milimeter more) together with all the boundaries she has to respect or

>

> 2. She will manage to find enough people to manipulate so she can continue

her life as miserable as now. In this case I won't be enough important to her

to listen to me or follow the rules. She would have me by herself " just in

case " if anything other fails. If the doctors will be so unprofessional and

they won't recognize and understand her real problem - than is their problem. I

know her. She is obsessed with her garden and whenever she can work there she

is ok. Problem is winter time when she has nothing to do on her garden. So she

would probably be " miracuasly " cured in spring , she will go home and at winter

time she would fake suicide attempt again - and they would be obliged to

accepted her The hospital will be her winter " house " .If that would be the case I

will respect her decisions and actions but I wount play her game at all. I'll

stick to my boundaries and with what I think is right. After few years when

doctors in hospital get is...:-)) ....we''ll be probably at the same point like

we are now with nada ( and hospital stuff on the edge of nerve brake and

everybody on bad terms with everybody)

>

> But life can surprise you so we'll se what will really happen......:-))

>

> Than you for concern!!!

> Yenaine

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Hehehe..you both made my day I allmost fall out of my chair laughing...:-)) Keep

going.!!! I'll came back to that later.

So lates news:-) I've been in hospital today and I talked to nada's doctor. He

is a complete idiot. I was shocked while listening to him. Not going into

details, but his view is: nada is to old to change, we can not do anything more

than to give her some medicaments and wait what will happen. His idea how to

handle her delusional requests is to do anything to calm her down. For example

she has paranoid idea that something is wrong with her teeth - the best it would

be to take her to the dentist to calm her down. I told him she was at the same

dentist thousant times and that he said to me that everything is in her head

that she has no real troubles. And she has paranoid idea that something is wrong

with some of the documents for the house ( not thruth) so lets take her to a

city hall to talk with everybody there so she would calm down. ( she already was

there and I know that there is no serious problem with that) When I told him

that I won't drop anything to feed her obsessions ( not to mention my really

crazy work schedule) he asked me ( with accusing look) " So you do have time to

do it but you don't want to do it because you have emotional problems with that

( meaning beeing stubborn) !!!! WTF!!????

And the answer on my question what they will do with her BPD diagnose ( I asked

him to consider it when they are working with her) - he is planing to make

another evaluation. (HS!!) He probably doesn't believe that BPD exists. He would

probably changes her diagnose to get rid of me.

Of course I sent him to hell - firmly and politely because I didn't want to risk

to get some diagnose myself...:-)) I have enough of rigid unprofessional

psychiatrists who don't know anything really about BPD ( or any other

personality disorders....) who see solution just in medicaments to make zombies

out of people so they would make less troubles. I will not fight or argue with

him it is not worth my energy ( it is like talking to a wall- he knows best)

and it will not have any positive effects but I'll stick to my reality and

boundaries with nada.

The good thing is that I don't give a damn. I won't go there, don' t play this

game. She follows her decisions and she is responsible for the results, he

follows his decisions and he is responsible for his part of the outcome of this

situation.. I don't want to take their responsibilities on my back - not any

more. It was completely ENOUGH!

I'm a bit angy of course. But I'm going to redirect this energy from anger to my

work and to find some creative souliton how to deal with that - so I can do

what I think is best and healthily and right and moral and ethically and I

already have some ideas how I might do that. But just to the limit it is ok and

right for me to. In other case I'm going to immediately exit this " train " - at

least until it became save and ok and right for me to - she is human being (

even if she is the wicked one) so somehow I can't and I don't want to leave

her totally.

Yenaine

> >

> > > Oh geez, no offense at all. I think its pretty funny myself. I would love

> > > to

> > > play that game! Yep queen/witch but she would resort to pretending to be

> > a

> > > waif/hermit when queening and witching about didn't get her what she

> > > wanted.

> > > " Oh I'm so helpless blah blah blah you must make me dinner and then I

> > will

> > > dislike it very much because of the vegetables in it and eat candy

> > > (specifically tootsie rolls) out of my purse instead after I waste the

> > time

> > > you should have spent doing your homework. "

> > >

> > > XOXO happy new year guys. Could we play guess the type based on the candy

> > > at

> > > the bottom of their purses? I'd be down for that one too. :)

> >

> >

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I looked up the various personality disorder traits in the DSM-IV and hoarding

behaviors appear to be associated with " obsessive-compulsive *personality*

disorder " (which, confusingly, is NOT the same thing as obsessive compulsive

disorder.)

Ocpd is in the Cluster C group, the anxious and fearful pds. " The primary

symptoms of OCPD are a preoccupation with details, rules, lists, order,

organization, and schedules; being very rigid and inflexible in their beliefs;

showing perfectionism that interferes with completing a task; excessive focus on

being productive with their time; being very conscientious; having inflexible

morality, ethics, or values; hoarding items that may no longer have value; and a

reluctance to trust a work assignment or task to someone else for fear that

their standards will not be met. "

Keep in mind that its not uncommon for one individual to have more than one

mental illness going on at the same time. In fact, if I understand what I've

read correctly, its actually rare for someone to have *only* bpd. Its more

common for it to occur with other personality disorders and with mood disorders.

I think my nada has this pd also. She's uber-organized and hyper-obsessed with

cleanliness and everything being picked up, and overall rather perfectionistic.

Our house felt more like a museum exhibit or like an operating room than a home.

Any mess or things left out or out of place made nada twitchy and irritable, and

we could never do any chores well enough to meet her perfectionist standards.

She'd scream at us and call us ugly, demeaning names if we didn't make the beds

" right " or load the dishwasher " right. " Nada collects massive amounts of

things, but they're all neatly organized and labeled in clear plastic storage

boxes.

Anyone care to join me in the rubber room? There's enough room in there for a

good sized black tie and straight-jacket party. (Bring your own drool bucket.)

-Annie

>

> > Ha ha no not at all no offense. Hmmm, my nada is the 250 to 300 lb variety

> > of queen/witch/sociopath who played her little violin poor me poor me when

> > she didn't get what she wanted. I don't totally understand the hermit

> > personality - who has one of those? I don't know if I get that. Is that the

> > hoarder? yes, i got me a hoarder nada myself. . .

> >

>

>

>

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Don't worry; I think that like most (but not all) behaviors there's a spectrum

or continuum like a Bell-shaped curve, inside which (right in the middle) there

is the normal range. When the behavior(s) becomes frequent, intense,

counterproductive and distressing, they've gone into the abnormal range: towards

either end of the Bell curve.

So, there's the appalling & repulsively filthy, health-hazard home at one end,

and the hospital operating-room sterile home full of rigid rules and punishments

at the other end. Both the home-makers are freaking insane.

Your description of your nada's " cleaning rampages " sound all too distressingly

familiar to me, except for the " vacuum bashing " part. My nada was too proud of

her expensive vacuum and furnishings to batter them. (Unlike children, that

heal, vacuums have to be repaired or replaced.)

But yes, I too think there is a lot of overlap in behaviors amongst the Cluster

B pds, and some overlap with the behaviors in the other two clusters as well.

-Annie

>

> > Yes, the OCPD sounds very familiar. My nada was very very unproductive. She

> > would work 16 hours and not accomplish a single task except for making a

> > big

> > mess. She had to do everything in a very specific order and way - as if

> > there were a right or wrong way to do totally ordinary, simple things, like

> > changing a kitty litter box (not that she ever did that, it was beneath

> > her,

> > but you get the idea). Here's 2 examples:

> >

> > 1) Baking cookies. She stopped baking cookies by the time I was about 6

> > years old. Though its interesting to me that since I was about 5 I've been

> > perfectly capable of baking cookies by myself - so I guess I did learn

> > something. It kills me when I'm around friends who can't bake cookies,

> > prepare a meal, do all the things i've been doing since preschool. I know

> > I'm the weird one not them but it is so strange to me. Anyway, so first of

> > all, nada couldn't just make 1 or 2 batches of cookies. It had to be an all

> > day project. Like 6 dozen cookies or none. Then she claimed she was

> > allergic

> > to flour. So she would get a huge flour sack dishtowel and tie it across

> > her

> > face. She would then very compulsively follow specific steps to sift and

> > prepare the flour, mix the dry ingredients etc, with the towel over her

> > face

> > almost the entire time. Eventually I think I just started taking care of

> > it.

> > It was painful to watch.

> >

> > 2) Driving. Nada lived in a fairly small town. Yet she refused to ever make

> > a left turn. So imagine how long it took to get places. I believe she would

> > occaisionally turn left at a stop light, but never ever ever if she had to

> > look both ways and decide when to go. So you are driving along and you have

> > to go around the block over and over and over until you have gone full

> > circle and avoided the left turn. DUDE!!! It wasn't even a high traffic

> > town. And the funny thing is she loved to be the one to drive but everyone

> > hated riding with her.

> >

> > So yeah, I think OCPD with a liberal dose of narcisism and hoarding

> > behavior

> > fits the bill.

> >

>

>

>

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Nada has all her rights. She is the one who choose doctors and I can not change

that (and that is her right). She seems to be happy with this one - how not ,

if he is dancing the way she wants it. And they are obviously all the same (

except the first one but he is not in charge for her for her)

So I have an idea ...:-)..How to start (real) communication and to define ways

of interactions with doctors in this mental hospital.

I 've written a short formal letter to this doctor. Stating all the main points

of his plans how to treat my nada. ( all unprofessional things he did and

said) Together with my perspective on the same issue. .And I would ask him to

officialy confirm me that I undersood our converstatinon correctly ( to avoid

further misinterpretations...:-)) to confirm that this is really how they would

treat nada. I'll send this letter to the other doctor who treat her and to

head of this hospital too.

It s too much now to translate all, but just in short ( because of writing in

other language it would be probably even longer than the original one:-).

I summarise his decisions.

- that they won't treat nada for BPD because she is old , there is no hope

anymore, because they have not enough place, people or money to do it how it

should be anyway so they would just just drug her enough that she would be less

annoying.

- if they won't treat my mother for BPD I asked them at least to consider that

she is BP because of her diagnose and he told me that this thing with

personality disorders is a total mess, that nobody know nothing really, that

they didn't decided yet what to do with that or if it exist anyway. His solution

-they are going to make another evaluation and find more proper diagnose who

would be much easier for them.

- They would do that even that my nada meet all of criteria from DSM-IV-TR form

2004 and that I've told him how she behave, thing, react...and it is copy -

paste story form professional books from BPD.

- So their solution now how to deal with nada' her down even if that means that

we ( meaning I) would obey her crazy demands.

Then I add my perception.

- she is already so full of drugs from their experiments that she has

allready started to have huge physical problems. If they would drug her until

she won't be capable of normal living than she would become their

responsibility not mine. I won't clean the theis mess after their unprofessional

treatment. They have to deal with their professional decisions by themselves.

They would not put their work and responsibilities on me, sent my nada home even

worst that she was whan she was entering their institution.

- Unstead of dealing with nada so she could unerstands how to behave, to somehow

cope with people they would give her what she wants - ( I added Annie

comaprisment - it is like giving demanding and screaming alhocolic a bottle so

it would be peace for a while , but on long terms it is the most unapropriate

thing to do- Thank you Annie!!) I told them that I will not contradict their

proffesional opinions but I won't cooperate in this because I think this is the

worst way of handling this situation.

..

- I told him that if he is one of those people who belives that children should

" love " and " forgive " parents and take care for them no matter what even if they

abused their children - that he has right to have such a personal opinion but

his work should be based on proffesional not personal ones. If some stranges

would do the same to little children like my parents did to us they would end

up in jail. And if anybody around would stoped that kind of parent's behavior

toward children before or gave parents proper treatmant to realy heal they

would not screw their lives so completly and demand us to abuse us again. My

nada born me and this is the reason togheter with basic human compassion that I

help her so much as I help her now. But my nada never was and never behave like

my mother and I don't feel I have any responsibilty to her as a doughter. Not

even because of some religions motives or to avoid problems when you touch

taboos. If it will be too much for me or it would lead to another abuse I would

go away completly.

- I found out that that this doctor is 3 on the list of the best payed

professionals in public health institutes in my country. So I told him that if

I have this in minde too I'm shocked because of his lack of interest and

unprofessinalism. And because of the money we all pay for him ( and this

hospital) I would expect at least a little interes , proper treatment and basic

respect if not highly professional person who knows what is happening in the

professional field around the world in the last 10 years not somebody who things

he already knows anything and didn't bother even to look.

At the end I said that if I misunderstood something I would be glad to talk

about that but if I get everything right I asked them to confirm me that, so

I'll know what would be my next steps.

The letter is better written than here (without too much emotions, and more

calm like it probably sound here but the message is the same) and from my work

I know that that kind of formal letter could " causes " urgent meeting from all

involved :-)

So what do you think?

PS: It is so strange . When my kid was little he had had a lot of operations and

we had spent days and days there. It was the same like now. I had had a huge

fights for basic things which are now written in their manual how to work with

little patients and their parents....but before that - I was villain, horrible,

hysteric, over demanding, crazy.......you name it. And now I have a feeling I'm

in the same position. Can not help it - can not just sit and be quiet:-)

yenaine

>

> >

> >

> > Hehehe..you both made my day I allmost fall out of my chair laughing...:-))

> > Keep going.!!! I'll came back to that later.

> >

> > So lates news:-) I've been in hospital today and I talked to nada's doctor.

> > He is a complete idiot. I was shocked while listening to him. Not going into

> > details, but his view is: nada is to old to change, we can not do anything

> > more than to give her some medicaments and wait what will happen. His idea

> > how to handle her delusional requests is to do anything to calm her down.

> > For example she has paranoid idea that something is wrong with her teeth -

> > the best it would be to take her to the dentist to calm her down. I told him

> > she was at the same dentist thousant times and that he said to me that

> > everything is in her head that she has no real troubles. And she has

> > paranoid idea that something is wrong with some of the documents for the

> > house ( not thruth) so lets take her to a city hall to talk with everybody

> > there so she would calm down. ( she already was there and I know that there

> > is no serious problem with that) When I told him that I won't drop anything

> > to feed her obsessions ( not to mention my really crazy work schedule) he

> > asked me ( with accusing look) " So you do have time to do it but you don't

> > want to do it because you have emotional problems with that ( meaning beeing

> > stubborn) !!!! WTF!!????

> >

> > And the answer on my question what they will do with her BPD diagnose ( I

> > asked him to consider it when they are working with her) - he is planing to

> > make another evaluation. (HS!!) He probably doesn't believe that BPD exists.

> > He would probably changes her diagnose to get rid of me.

> >

> > Of course I sent him to hell - firmly and politely because I didn't want to

> > risk to get some diagnose myself...:-)) I have enough of rigid

> > unprofessional psychiatrists who don't know anything really about BPD ( or

> > any other personality disorders....) who see solution just in medicaments to

> > make zombies out of people so they would make less troubles. I will not

> > fight or argue with him it is not worth my energy ( it is like talking to a

> > wall- he knows best) and it will not have any positive effects but I'll

> > stick to my reality and boundaries with nada.

> >

> > The good thing is that I don't give a damn. I won't go there, don' t play

> > this game. She follows her decisions and she is responsible for the results,

> > he follows his decisions and he is responsible for his part of the outcome

> > of this situation.. I don't want to take their responsibilities on my back -

> > not any more. It was completely ENOUGH!

> >

> > I'm a bit angy of course. But I'm going to redirect this energy from anger

> > to my work and to find some creative souliton how to deal with that - so I

> > can do what I think is best and healthily and right and moral and ethically

> > and I already have some ideas how I might do that. But just to the limit it

> > is ok and right for me to. In other case I'm going to immediately exit this

> > " train " - at least until it became save and ok and right for me to - she is

> > human being ( even if she is the wicked one) so somehow I can't and I don't

> > want to leave her totally.

> >

> > Yenaine

> >

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Nada has all her rights. She is the one who choose doctors and I can not change

that (and that is her right). She seems to be happy with this one - how not ,

if he is dancing the way she wants it. And they are obviously all the same (

except the first one but he is not in charge for her for her)

So I have an idea ...:-)..How to start (real) communication and to define ways

of interactions with doctors in this mental hospital.

I 've written a short formal letter to this doctor. Stating all the main points

of his plans how to treat my nada. ( all unprofessional things he did and

said) Together with my perspective on the same issue. .And I would ask him to

officialy confirm me that I undersood our converstatinon correctly ( to avoid

further misinterpretations...:-)) to confirm that this is really how they would

treat nada. I'll send this letter to the other doctor who treat her and to

head of this hospital too.

It s too much now to translate all, but just in short ( because of writing in

other language it would be probably even longer than the original one:-).

I summarise his decisions.

- that they won't treat nada for BPD because she is old , there is no hope

anymore, because they have not enough place, people or money to do it how it

should be anyway so they would just just drug her enough that she would be less

annoying.

- if they won't treat my mother for BPD I asked them at least to consider that

she is BP because of her diagnose and he told me that this thing with

personality disorders is a total mess, that nobody know nothing really, that

they didn't decided yet what to do with that or if it exist anyway. His solution

-they are going to make another evaluation and find more proper diagnose who

would be much easier for them.

- They would do that even that my nada meet all of criteria from DSM-IV-TR form

2004 and that I've told him how she behave, thing, react...and it is copy -

paste story form professional books from BPD.

- So their solution now how to deal with nada' her down even if that means that

we ( meaning I) would obey her crazy demands.

Then I add my perception.

- she is already so full of drugs from their experiments that she has

allready started to have huge physical problems. If they would drug her until

she won't be capable of normal living than she would become their

responsibility not mine. I won't clean the theis mess after their unprofessional

treatment. They have to deal with their professional decisions by themselves.

They would not put their work and responsibilities on me, sent my nada home even

worst that she was whan she was entering their institution.

- Unstead of dealing with nada so she could unerstands how to behave, to somehow

cope with people they would give her what she wants - ( I added Annie

comaprisment - it is like giving demanding and screaming alhocolic a bottle so

it would be peace for a while , but on long terms it is the most unapropriate

thing to do- Thank you Annie!!) I told them that I will not contradict their

proffesional opinions but I won't cooperate in this because I think this is the

worst way of handling this situation.

..

- I told him that if he is one of those people who belives that children should

" love " and " forgive " parents and take care for them no matter what even if they

abused their children - that he has right to have such a personal opinion but

his work should be based on proffesional not personal ones. If some stranges

would do the same to little children like my parents did to us they would end

up in jail. And if anybody around would stoped that kind of parent's behavior

toward children before or gave parents proper treatmant to realy heal they

would not screw their lives so completly and demand us to abuse us again. My

nada born me and this is the reason togheter with basic human compassion that I

help her so much as I help her now. But my nada never was and never behave like

my mother and I don't feel I have any responsibilty to her as a doughter. Not

even because of some religions motives or to avoid problems when you touch

taboos. If it will be too much for me or it would lead to another abuse I would

go away completly.

- I found out that that this doctor is 3 on the list of the best payed

professionals in public health institutes in my country. So I told him that if

I have this in minde too I'm shocked because of his lack of interest and

unprofessinalism. And because of the money we all pay for him ( and this

hospital) I would expect at least a little interes , proper treatment and basic

respect if not highly professional person who knows what is happening in the

professional field around the world in the last 10 years not somebody who things

he already knows anything and didn't bother even to look.

At the end I said that if I misunderstood something I would be glad to talk

about that but if I get everything right I asked them to confirm me that, so

I'll know what would be my next steps.

The letter is better written than here (without too much emotions, and more

calm like it probably sound here but the message is the same) and from my work

I know that that kind of formal letter could " causes " urgent meeting from all

involved :-)

So what do you think?

PS: It is so strange . When my kid was little he had had a lot of operations and

we had spent days and days there. It was the same like now. I had had a huge

fights for basic things which are now written in their manual how to work with

little patients and their parents....but before that - I was villain, horrible,

hysteric, over demanding, crazy.......you name it. And now I have a feeling I'm

in the same position. Can not help it - can not just sit and be quiet:-)

yenaine

>

> >

> >

> > Hehehe..you both made my day I allmost fall out of my chair laughing...:-))

> > Keep going.!!! I'll came back to that later.

> >

> > So lates news:-) I've been in hospital today and I talked to nada's doctor.

> > He is a complete idiot. I was shocked while listening to him. Not going into

> > details, but his view is: nada is to old to change, we can not do anything

> > more than to give her some medicaments and wait what will happen. His idea

> > how to handle her delusional requests is to do anything to calm her down.

> > For example she has paranoid idea that something is wrong with her teeth -

> > the best it would be to take her to the dentist to calm her down. I told him

> > she was at the same dentist thousant times and that he said to me that

> > everything is in her head that she has no real troubles. And she has

> > paranoid idea that something is wrong with some of the documents for the

> > house ( not thruth) so lets take her to a city hall to talk with everybody

> > there so she would calm down. ( she already was there and I know that there

> > is no serious problem with that) When I told him that I won't drop anything

> > to feed her obsessions ( not to mention my really crazy work schedule) he

> > asked me ( with accusing look) " So you do have time to do it but you don't

> > want to do it because you have emotional problems with that ( meaning beeing

> > stubborn) !!!! WTF!!????

> >

> > And the answer on my question what they will do with her BPD diagnose ( I

> > asked him to consider it when they are working with her) - he is planing to

> > make another evaluation. (HS!!) He probably doesn't believe that BPD exists.

> > He would probably changes her diagnose to get rid of me.

> >

> > Of course I sent him to hell - firmly and politely because I didn't want to

> > risk to get some diagnose myself...:-)) I have enough of rigid

> > unprofessional psychiatrists who don't know anything really about BPD ( or

> > any other personality disorders....) who see solution just in medicaments to

> > make zombies out of people so they would make less troubles. I will not

> > fight or argue with him it is not worth my energy ( it is like talking to a

> > wall- he knows best) and it will not have any positive effects but I'll

> > stick to my reality and boundaries with nada.

> >

> > The good thing is that I don't give a damn. I won't go there, don' t play

> > this game. She follows her decisions and she is responsible for the results,

> > he follows his decisions and he is responsible for his part of the outcome

> > of this situation.. I don't want to take their responsibilities on my back -

> > not any more. It was completely ENOUGH!

> >

> > I'm a bit angy of course. But I'm going to redirect this energy from anger

> > to my work and to find some creative souliton how to deal with that - so I

> > can do what I think is best and healthily and right and moral and ethically

> > and I already have some ideas how I might do that. But just to the limit it

> > is ok and right for me to. In other case I'm going to immediately exit this

> > " train " - at least until it became save and ok and right for me to - she is

> > human being ( even if she is the wicked one) so somehow I can't and I don't

> > want to leave her totally.

> >

> > Yenaine

> >

>

>

>

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