Re: Nada in mental hospital

[Guest guest]

I think you are awesome, yenaine! Your assertiveness and your activism to get

that hospital and those doctors to do the right thing completely kick ass! You

go, girl!

-Annie

>

> Nada has all her rights. She is the one who choose doctors and I can not

change that (and that is her right). She seems to be happy with this one - how

not , if he is dancing the way she wants it. And they are obviously all the same

( except the first one but he is not in charge for her for her)

>

> So I have an idea ...:-)..How to start (real) communication and to define ways

of interactions with doctors in this mental hospital.

>

> I 've written a short formal letter to this doctor. Stating all the main

points of his plans how to treat my nada. ( all unprofessional things he did

and said) Together with my perspective on the same issue. .And I would ask him

to officialy confirm me that I undersood our converstatinon correctly ( to

avoid further misinterpretations...:-)) to confirm that this is really how they

would treat nada. I'll send this letter to the other doctor who treat her and

to head of this hospital too.

>

> It s too much now to translate all, but just in short ( because of writing in

other language it would be probably even longer than the original one:-).

>

> I summarise his decisions.

>

> - that they won't treat nada for BPD because she is old , there is no hope

anymore, because they have not enough place, people or money to do it how it

should be anyway so they would just just drug her enough that she would be less

annoying.

>

> - if they won't treat my mother for BPD I asked them at least to consider that

she is BP because of her diagnose and he told me that this thing with

personality disorders is a total mess, that nobody know nothing really, that

they didn't decided yet what to do with that or if it exist anyway. His solution

-they are going to make another evaluation and find more proper diagnose who

would be much easier for them.

>

> - They would do that even that my nada meet all of criteria from DSM-IV-TR

form 2004 and that I've told him how she behave, thing, react...and it is copy -

paste story form professional books from BPD.

>

> - So their solution now how to deal with nada' her down even if that means

that we ( meaning I) would obey her crazy demands.

>

> Then I add my perception.

>

> - she is already so full of drugs from their experiments that she has

allready started to have huge physical problems. If they would drug her until

she won't be capable of normal living than she would become their

responsibility not mine. I won't clean the theis mess after their unprofessional

treatment. They have to deal with their professional decisions by themselves.

They would not put their work and responsibilities on me, sent my nada home even

worst that she was whan she was entering their institution.

>

> - Unstead of dealing with nada so she could unerstands how to behave, to

somehow cope with people they would give her what she wants - ( I added Annie

comaprisment - it is like giving demanding and screaming alhocolic a bottle so

it would be peace for a while , but on long terms it is the most unapropriate

thing to do- Thank you Annie!!) I told them that I will not contradict their

proffesional opinions but I won't cooperate in this because I think this is the

worst way of handling this situation.

> .

> - I told him that if he is one of those people who belives that children

should " love " and " forgive " parents and take care for them no matter what even

if they abused their children - that he has right to have such a personal

opinion but his work should be based on proffesional not personal ones. If some

stranges would do the same to little children like my parents did to us they

would end up in jail. And if anybody around would stoped that kind of parent's

behavior toward children before or gave parents proper treatmant to realy heal

they would not screw their lives so completly and demand us to abuse us again.

My nada born me and this is the reason togheter with basic human compassion

that I help her so much as I help her now. But my nada never was and never

behave like my mother and I don't feel I have any responsibilty to her as a

doughter. Not even because of some religions motives or to avoid problems when

you touch taboos. If it will be too much for me or it would lead to another

abuse I would go away completly.

>

> - I found out that that this doctor is 3 on the list of the best payed

professionals in public health institutes in my country. So I told him that if

I have this in minde too I'm shocked because of his lack of interest and

unprofessinalism. And because of the money we all pay for him ( and this

hospital) I would expect at least a little interes , proper treatment and basic

respect if not highly professional person who knows what is happening in the

professional field around the world in the last 10 years not somebody who things

he already knows anything and didn't bother even to look.

>

> At the end I said that if I misunderstood something I would be glad to talk

about that but if I get everything right I asked them to confirm me that, so

I'll know what would be my next steps.

>

> The letter is better written than here (without too much emotions, and more

calm like it probably sound here but the message is the same) and from my work

I know that that kind of formal letter could " causes " urgent meeting from all

involved :-)

>

> So what do you think?

>

> PS: It is so strange . When my kid was little he had had a lot of operations

and we had spent days and days there. It was the same like now. I had had a huge

fights for basic things which are now written in their manual how to work with

little patients and their parents....but before that - I was villain, horrible,

hysteric, over demanding, crazy.......you name it. And now I have a feeling I'm

in the same position. Can not help it - can not just sit and be quiet:-)

>

> yenaine

[Guest guest]

This doctor clearly isn't current on the latest treatment protocols for

geriatric BPD patients.He's an overpaid dinosaur---grrrr...Out of curiosity I

had a look online to see what kind of treatment actually *is* recommended for

elderly BPs.I didn't find much--and didn't have much time to keep digging--but

according to what I read medication is used only if necessary to treat

co-morbidities such as depression while the BPD itself is addressed through

psychotherapy,even DBT,regardless of the patient's age,except in cases of

advanced senility in which case of course psychotherapy would be

impractical.Nowhere,even in the little I read,was there a professional

recommendation to the effect that any psychotherapeutic intervention should be

abandoned simply because the patient is elderly and therefore a " hopeless case "

although in one case I read there was an emphasis on monitoring the elderly

patient more closely for symptoms of suicidality due to their age.

In one brief article I read,not about BPD but about psychotherapy in general

for the geriatric population,the conclusion was that both individual and group

therapy can improve the participants' quality of life and

functioning--not,again,that this would be a pointless endeavor since these

people are " too old " and " past the point of no return " etc.

Yenaine,I think all the points you made in your letter are great and this

doctor is trying to get away with rediagnosing your nada according to one of her

co-morbidities (such as depression maybe?) that he can easily medicate because

effectively,like you said,he's an unmotivated lazy ass mediocrity who'd rather

zombify your nada than work up an actual treatment plan for her.

Good for you for both underscoring in your letter that you want them to

officially confirm how they intend to treat your nada and for refusing to cave

to this doctor's really pathetic attempt at intimidation (the last refuge of the

incompetent--ha!) when he accused *you* of having " emotional problems " or being

stubborn or however he phrased it in your language--amazing how the psychiatrist

himself engages in primitive manipulation; no wonder your nada likes him,they

have something in common

I can understand being at the point of not being able to just take all

this shit quietly!!!

That would be awesome if you helped to get SWOE translated and made

available to the public in your country,something ethical and right that could

benefit so many people.Would you be able to do a multiple part series in the

media? I just can't imagine how it would be possible to explain BPD and the lack

of effective treatment in one go! It sounds like you have a plan at any

rate--and you're taking steps to make sure you're covered

I think you rock! You're an extraordinary woman,instead of allowing all

of this to tear you down you build on it--you go,Yenaine!

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Hehehe..you both made my day I allmost fall out of my chair

> > > laughing...:-))

> > > > > Keep going.!!! I'll came back to that later.

> > > > >

> > > > > So lates news:-) I've been in hospital today and I talked to nada's

> > > doctor.

> > > > > He is a complete idiot. I was shocked while listening to him. Not

going

> > > into

> > > > > details, but his view is: nada is to old to change, we can not do

> > > anything

> > > > > more than to give her some medicaments and wait what will happen. His

> > > idea

> > > > > how to handle her delusional requests is to do anything to calm her

> > > down.

> > > > > For example she has paranoid idea that something is wrong with her

> > > teeth -

> > > > > the best it would be to take her to the dentist to calm her down. I

> > > told him

> > > > > she was at the same dentist thousant times and that he said to me that

> > > > > everything is in her head that she has no real troubles. And she has

> > > > > paranoid idea that something is wrong with some of the documents for

> > > the

> > > > > house ( not thruth) so lets take her to a city hall to talk with

> > > everybody

> > > > > there so she would calm down. ( she already was there and I know that

> > > there

> > > > > is no serious problem with that) When I told him that I won't drop

> > > anything

> > > > > to feed her obsessions ( not to mention my really crazy work schedule)

> > > he

> > > > > asked me ( with accusing look) " So you do have time to do it but you

> > > don't

> > > > > want to do it because you have emotional problems with that ( meaning

> > > beeing

> > > > > stubborn) !!!! WTF!!????

> > > > >

> > > > > And the answer on my question what they will do with her BPD diagnose

(

> > > I

> > > > > asked him to consider it when they are working with her) - he is

> > > planing to

> > > > > make another evaluation. (HS!!) He probably doesn't believe that BPD

> > > exists.

> > > > > He would probably changes her diagnose to get rid of me.

> > > > >

> > > > > Of course I sent him to hell - firmly and politely because I didn't

> > > want to

> > > > > risk to get some diagnose myself...:-)) I have enough of rigid

> > > > > unprofessional psychiatrists who don't know anything really about BPD

(

> > > or

> > > > > any other personality disorders....) who see solution just in

> > > medicaments to

> > > > > make zombies out of people so they would make less troubles. I will

not

> > > > > fight or argue with him it is not worth my energy ( it is like talking

> > > to a

> > > > > wall- he knows best) and it will not have any positive effects but

I'll

> > > > > stick to my reality and boundaries with nada.

> > > > >

> > > > > The good thing is that I don't give a damn. I won't go there, don' t

> > > play

> > > > > this game. She follows her decisions and she is responsible for the

> > > results,

> > > > > he follows his decisions and he is responsible for his part of the

> > > outcome

> > > > > of this situation.. I don't want to take their responsibilities on my

> > > back -

> > > > > not any more. It was completely ENOUGH!

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm a bit angy of course. But I'm going to redirect this energy from

> > > anger

> > > > > to my work and to find some creative souliton how to deal with that -

> > > so I

> > > > > can do what I think is best and healthily and right and moral and

> > > ethically

> > > > > and I already have some ideas how I might do that. But just to the

> > > limit it

> > > > > is ok and right for me to. In other case I'm going to immediately exit

> > > this

> > > > > " train " - at least until it became save and ok and right for me to -

> > > she is

> > > > > human being ( even if she is the wicked one) so somehow I can't and I

> > > don't

> > > > > want to leave her totally.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yenaine

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

This doctor clearly isn't current on the latest treatment protocols for

geriatric BPD patients.He's an overpaid dinosaur---grrrr...Out of curiosity I

had a look online to see what kind of treatment actually *is* recommended for

elderly BPs.I didn't find much--and didn't have much time to keep digging--but

according to what I read medication is used only if necessary to treat

co-morbidities such as depression while the BPD itself is addressed through

psychotherapy,even DBT,regardless of the patient's age,except in cases of

advanced senility in which case of course psychotherapy would be

impractical.Nowhere,even in the little I read,was there a professional

recommendation to the effect that any psychotherapeutic intervention should be

abandoned simply because the patient is elderly and therefore a " hopeless case "

although in one case I read there was an emphasis on monitoring the elderly

patient more closely for symptoms of suicidality due to their age.

In one brief article I read,not about BPD but about psychotherapy in general

for the geriatric population,the conclusion was that both individual and group

therapy can improve the participants' quality of life and

functioning--not,again,that this would be a pointless endeavor since these

people are " too old " and " past the point of no return " etc.

Yenaine,I think all the points you made in your letter are great and this

doctor is trying to get away with rediagnosing your nada according to one of her

co-morbidities (such as depression maybe?) that he can easily medicate because

effectively,like you said,he's an unmotivated lazy ass mediocrity who'd rather

zombify your nada than work up an actual treatment plan for her.

Good for you for both underscoring in your letter that you want them to

officially confirm how they intend to treat your nada and for refusing to cave

to this doctor's really pathetic attempt at intimidation (the last refuge of the

incompetent--ha!) when he accused *you* of having " emotional problems " or being

stubborn or however he phrased it in your language--amazing how the psychiatrist

himself engages in primitive manipulation; no wonder your nada likes him,they

have something in common

I can understand being at the point of not being able to just take all

this shit quietly!!!

That would be awesome if you helped to get SWOE translated and made

available to the public in your country,something ethical and right that could

benefit so many people.Would you be able to do a multiple part series in the

media? I just can't imagine how it would be possible to explain BPD and the lack

of effective treatment in one go! It sounds like you have a plan at any

rate--and you're taking steps to make sure you're covered

I think you rock! You're an extraordinary woman,instead of allowing all

of this to tear you down you build on it--you go,Yenaine!

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Hehehe..you both made my day I allmost fall out of my chair

> > > laughing...:-))

> > > > > Keep going.!!! I'll came back to that later.

> > > > >

> > > > > So lates news:-) I've been in hospital today and I talked to nada's

> > > doctor.

> > > > > He is a complete idiot. I was shocked while listening to him. Not

going

> > > into

> > > > > details, but his view is: nada is to old to change, we can not do

> > > anything

> > > > > more than to give her some medicaments and wait what will happen. His

> > > idea

> > > > > how to handle her delusional requests is to do anything to calm her

> > > down.

> > > > > For example she has paranoid idea that something is wrong with her

> > > teeth -

> > > > > the best it would be to take her to the dentist to calm her down. I

> > > told him

> > > > > she was at the same dentist thousant times and that he said to me that

> > > > > everything is in her head that she has no real troubles. And she has

> > > > > paranoid idea that something is wrong with some of the documents for

> > > the

> > > > > house ( not thruth) so lets take her to a city hall to talk with

> > > everybody

> > > > > there so she would calm down. ( she already was there and I know that

> > > there

> > > > > is no serious problem with that) When I told him that I won't drop

> > > anything

> > > > > to feed her obsessions ( not to mention my really crazy work schedule)

> > > he

> > > > > asked me ( with accusing look) " So you do have time to do it but you

> > > don't

> > > > > want to do it because you have emotional problems with that ( meaning

> > > beeing

> > > > > stubborn) !!!! WTF!!????

> > > > >

> > > > > And the answer on my question what they will do with her BPD diagnose

(

> > > I

> > > > > asked him to consider it when they are working with her) - he is

> > > planing to

> > > > > make another evaluation. (HS!!) He probably doesn't believe that BPD

> > > exists.

> > > > > He would probably changes her diagnose to get rid of me.

> > > > >

> > > > > Of course I sent him to hell - firmly and politely because I didn't

> > > want to

> > > > > risk to get some diagnose myself...:-)) I have enough of rigid

> > > > > unprofessional psychiatrists who don't know anything really about BPD

(

> > > or

> > > > > any other personality disorders....) who see solution just in

> > > medicaments to

> > > > > make zombies out of people so they would make less troubles. I will

not

> > > > > fight or argue with him it is not worth my energy ( it is like talking

> > > to a

> > > > > wall- he knows best) and it will not have any positive effects but

I'll

> > > > > stick to my reality and boundaries with nada.

> > > > >

> > > > > The good thing is that I don't give a damn. I won't go there, don' t

> > > play

> > > > > this game. She follows her decisions and she is responsible for the

> > > results,

> > > > > he follows his decisions and he is responsible for his part of the

> > > outcome

> > > > > of this situation.. I don't want to take their responsibilities on my

> > > back -

> > > > > not any more. It was completely ENOUGH!

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm a bit angy of course. But I'm going to redirect this energy from

> > > anger

> > > > > to my work and to find some creative souliton how to deal with that -

> > > so I

> > > > > can do what I think is best and healthily and right and moral and

> > > ethically

> > > > > and I already have some ideas how I might do that. But just to the

> > > limit it

> > > > > is ok and right for me to. In other case I'm going to immediately exit

> > > this

> > > > > " train " - at least until it became save and ok and right for me to -

> > > she is

> > > > > human being ( even if she is the wicked one) so somehow I can't and I

> > > don't

> > > > > want to leave her totally.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yenaine

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

This doctor clearly isn't current on the latest treatment protocols for

geriatric BPD patients.He's an overpaid dinosaur---grrrr...Out of curiosity I

had a look online to see what kind of treatment actually *is* recommended for

elderly BPs.I didn't find much--and didn't have much time to keep digging--but

according to what I read medication is used only if necessary to treat

co-morbidities such as depression while the BPD itself is addressed through

psychotherapy,even DBT,regardless of the patient's age,except in cases of

advanced senility in which case of course psychotherapy would be

impractical.Nowhere,even in the little I read,was there a professional

recommendation to the effect that any psychotherapeutic intervention should be

abandoned simply because the patient is elderly and therefore a " hopeless case "

although in one case I read there was an emphasis on monitoring the elderly

patient more closely for symptoms of suicidality due to their age.

In one brief article I read,not about BPD but about psychotherapy in general

for the geriatric population,the conclusion was that both individual and group

therapy can improve the participants' quality of life and

functioning--not,again,that this would be a pointless endeavor since these

people are " too old " and " past the point of no return " etc.

Yenaine,I think all the points you made in your letter are great and this

doctor is trying to get away with rediagnosing your nada according to one of her

co-morbidities (such as depression maybe?) that he can easily medicate because

effectively,like you said,he's an unmotivated lazy ass mediocrity who'd rather

zombify your nada than work up an actual treatment plan for her.

Good for you for both underscoring in your letter that you want them to

officially confirm how they intend to treat your nada and for refusing to cave

to this doctor's really pathetic attempt at intimidation (the last refuge of the

incompetent--ha!) when he accused *you* of having " emotional problems " or being

stubborn or however he phrased it in your language--amazing how the psychiatrist

himself engages in primitive manipulation; no wonder your nada likes him,they

have something in common

I can understand being at the point of not being able to just take all

this shit quietly!!!

That would be awesome if you helped to get SWOE translated and made

available to the public in your country,something ethical and right that could

benefit so many people.Would you be able to do a multiple part series in the

media? I just can't imagine how it would be possible to explain BPD and the lack

of effective treatment in one go! It sounds like you have a plan at any

rate--and you're taking steps to make sure you're covered

I think you rock! You're an extraordinary woman,instead of allowing all

of this to tear you down you build on it--you go,Yenaine!

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Hehehe..you both made my day I allmost fall out of my chair

> > > laughing...:-))

> > > > > Keep going.!!! I'll came back to that later.

> > > > >

> > > > > So lates news:-) I've been in hospital today and I talked to nada's

> > > doctor.

> > > > > He is a complete idiot. I was shocked while listening to him. Not

going

> > > into

> > > > > details, but his view is: nada is to old to change, we can not do

> > > anything

> > > > > more than to give her some medicaments and wait what will happen. His

> > > idea

> > > > > how to handle her delusional requests is to do anything to calm her

> > > down.

> > > > > For example she has paranoid idea that something is wrong with her

> > > teeth -

> > > > > the best it would be to take her to the dentist to calm her down. I

> > > told him

> > > > > she was at the same dentist thousant times and that he said to me that

> > > > > everything is in her head that she has no real troubles. And she has

> > > > > paranoid idea that something is wrong with some of the documents for

> > > the

> > > > > house ( not thruth) so lets take her to a city hall to talk with

> > > everybody

> > > > > there so she would calm down. ( she already was there and I know that

> > > there

> > > > > is no serious problem with that) When I told him that I won't drop

> > > anything

> > > > > to feed her obsessions ( not to mention my really crazy work schedule)

> > > he

> > > > > asked me ( with accusing look) " So you do have time to do it but you

> > > don't

> > > > > want to do it because you have emotional problems with that ( meaning

> > > beeing

> > > > > stubborn) !!!! WTF!!????

> > > > >

> > > > > And the answer on my question what they will do with her BPD diagnose

(

> > > I

> > > > > asked him to consider it when they are working with her) - he is

> > > planing to

> > > > > make another evaluation. (HS!!) He probably doesn't believe that BPD

> > > exists.

> > > > > He would probably changes her diagnose to get rid of me.

> > > > >

> > > > > Of course I sent him to hell - firmly and politely because I didn't

> > > want to

> > > > > risk to get some diagnose myself...:-)) I have enough of rigid

> > > > > unprofessional psychiatrists who don't know anything really about BPD

(

> > > or

> > > > > any other personality disorders....) who see solution just in

> > > medicaments to

> > > > > make zombies out of people so they would make less troubles. I will

not

> > > > > fight or argue with him it is not worth my energy ( it is like talking

> > > to a

> > > > > wall- he knows best) and it will not have any positive effects but

I'll

> > > > > stick to my reality and boundaries with nada.

> > > > >

> > > > > The good thing is that I don't give a damn. I won't go there, don' t

> > > play

> > > > > this game. She follows her decisions and she is responsible for the

> > > results,

> > > > > he follows his decisions and he is responsible for his part of the

> > > outcome

> > > > > of this situation.. I don't want to take their responsibilities on my

> > > back -

> > > > > not any more. It was completely ENOUGH!

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm a bit angy of course. But I'm going to redirect this energy from

> > > anger

> > > > > to my work and to find some creative souliton how to deal with that -

> > > so I

> > > > > can do what I think is best and healthily and right and moral and

> > > ethically

> > > > > and I already have some ideas how I might do that. But just to the

> > > limit it

> > > > > is ok and right for me to. In other case I'm going to immediately exit

> > > this

> > > > > " train " - at least until it became save and ok and right for me to -

> > > she is

> > > > > human being ( even if she is the wicked one) so somehow I can't and I

> > > don't

> > > > > want to leave her totally.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yenaine

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >