Re: Just saw Tangled -- Whoa

[Guest guest]

I'm nervous to see it. I told my aunt (my NADAs sister) that it could be

triggering. She went up one side me and down the other, telling me that it was a

MOVIEEEE, and I should just take my girls and enjoy it. That I should stop

dissecting it.

Then she saw it.

And told me not to go see it, that there was no dissection involved.

LOL!

>

> I had seen the posts here about the " mother " being BPD and just saw the movie

with my kids.

>

> Those of you who posted about that were spot-on. The fake mother was not

overtly evil, she was always " just teasing " when she would insult and patronize

her daughter, she was always saying how evil the world is, how you can't trust

anyone but her. Just like my hermit mother.

>

> The characteristic of the fake mother here that was most like my mother was

how she would tell Rapunzel that she was making her favorite food, hazelnut

soup! My mother would constantly do this, announcing from morning time what

goodies she was making for dinner and then keep talking about it throughout the

day. If we didn't show the proper degree of enthusiasm, she would say, " what's

wrong? you don't like [fill in dish name here]??? "

>

> It made me sad watching that part of the movie, because I really do feel

rapunzeled to an extent. I really wasn't allowed out at all unless I was with my

brother, father or another adult. Ever. When I got to college, I went wild with

freedom, but I felt that same back and forth war of feelings the movie depicted

so well, of " mother's going to be furious with me " and " ah screw her, I'm

free! " I didn't know how to gauge people, I was (and still feel at times)

socially inept, I was just wanting to dance with everything and everyone, I was

so dizzy with freedom.

>

> The sad part as well was that Rapunzel got away. Once I was done with school,

I lived with my parents and it was as though I'd never left until I got married.

At which point my mother treated my husband like the mother in Tangled... " hmmph,

we'll see how this marriage thing goes! you got yourself into it, now enjoy

yourself. "

>

[Guest guest]

I'm nervous to see it. I told my aunt (my NADAs sister) that it could be

triggering. She went up one side me and down the other, telling me that it was a

MOVIEEEE, and I should just take my girls and enjoy it. That I should stop

dissecting it.

Then she saw it.

And told me not to go see it, that there was no dissection involved.

LOL!

>

> I had seen the posts here about the " mother " being BPD and just saw the movie

with my kids.

>

> Those of you who posted about that were spot-on. The fake mother was not

overtly evil, she was always " just teasing " when she would insult and patronize

her daughter, she was always saying how evil the world is, how you can't trust

anyone but her. Just like my hermit mother.

>

> The characteristic of the fake mother here that was most like my mother was

how she would tell Rapunzel that she was making her favorite food, hazelnut

soup! My mother would constantly do this, announcing from morning time what

goodies she was making for dinner and then keep talking about it throughout the

day. If we didn't show the proper degree of enthusiasm, she would say, " what's

wrong? you don't like [fill in dish name here]??? "

>

> It made me sad watching that part of the movie, because I really do feel

rapunzeled to an extent. I really wasn't allowed out at all unless I was with my

brother, father or another adult. Ever. When I got to college, I went wild with

freedom, but I felt that same back and forth war of feelings the movie depicted

so well, of " mother's going to be furious with me " and " ah screw her, I'm

free! " I didn't know how to gauge people, I was (and still feel at times)

socially inept, I was just wanting to dance with everything and everyone, I was

so dizzy with freedom.

>

> The sad part as well was that Rapunzel got away. Once I was done with school,

I lived with my parents and it was as though I'd never left until I got married.

At which point my mother treated my husband like the mother in Tangled... " hmmph,

we'll see how this marriage thing goes! you got yourself into it, now enjoy

yourself. "

>

[Guest guest]

I'm nervous to see it. I told my aunt (my NADAs sister) that it could be

triggering. She went up one side me and down the other, telling me that it was a

MOVIEEEE, and I should just take my girls and enjoy it. That I should stop

dissecting it.

Then she saw it.

And told me not to go see it, that there was no dissection involved.

LOL!

>

> I had seen the posts here about the " mother " being BPD and just saw the movie

with my kids.

>

> Those of you who posted about that were spot-on. The fake mother was not

overtly evil, she was always " just teasing " when she would insult and patronize

her daughter, she was always saying how evil the world is, how you can't trust

anyone but her. Just like my hermit mother.

>

> The characteristic of the fake mother here that was most like my mother was

how she would tell Rapunzel that she was making her favorite food, hazelnut

soup! My mother would constantly do this, announcing from morning time what

goodies she was making for dinner and then keep talking about it throughout the

day. If we didn't show the proper degree of enthusiasm, she would say, " what's

wrong? you don't like [fill in dish name here]??? "

>

> It made me sad watching that part of the movie, because I really do feel

rapunzeled to an extent. I really wasn't allowed out at all unless I was with my

brother, father or another adult. Ever. When I got to college, I went wild with

freedom, but I felt that same back and forth war of feelings the movie depicted

so well, of " mother's going to be furious with me " and " ah screw her, I'm

free! " I didn't know how to gauge people, I was (and still feel at times)

socially inept, I was just wanting to dance with everything and everyone, I was

so dizzy with freedom.

>

> The sad part as well was that Rapunzel got away. Once I was done with school,

I lived with my parents and it was as though I'd never left until I got married.

At which point my mother treated my husband like the mother in Tangled... " hmmph,

we'll see how this marriage thing goes! you got yourself into it, now enjoy

yourself. "

>

[Guest guest]

Its understandable how some movies are triggering, and if Tangled is triggering

for you, then I suggest that you avoid " Coraline " as well.

It is also an animated film from a few years back and is now on DVD (done the

same way as " Nightmare Before Christmas " with small models/puppet animation

instead of CG animation) but the mother in that film is very scary.

The " Other Mother " starts out all sweetness and light, and then gradually

reveals her true self: a hideous spider-like creature who eats children's souls.

The souls of three dead children she ate previously come to the aid of the

heroine, Coraline, and help her defeat the " Other Mother " so the film has a

happy ending, but its still rather too reminiscent of the kind of sociopathic,

controlling, denigrating behaviors my nada would engage in.

It still interests me that in most fairy tales and films that are fairy-tale

like, its the " step mother " or other female who is the evil one, never the

biological mother. Somehow, even the writers of fairy-tales don't want to go

there: to the place where actual bio-moms torture, emotionally cannibalize,

neglect, batter and maim their own bio-kids.

When I was a kid, the Disney animated " Cinderella " would usually trigger some

reaction of anxiety in me when they'd show it on TV, whenever the evil

stepmother was on screen, and the scene in which the two evil step-sisters tore

Cinderella's home-made (mouse-made) dress to shreds would usually upset me too,

mainly because the evil step mother told her girls to do it.

-Annie

> >

> > I had seen the posts here about the " mother " being BPD and just saw the

movie with my kids.

> >

> > Those of you who posted about that were spot-on. The fake mother was not

overtly evil, she was always " just teasing " when she would insult and patronize

her daughter, she was always saying how evil the world is, how you can't trust

anyone but her. Just like my hermit mother.

> >

> > The characteristic of the fake mother here that was most like my mother was

how she would tell Rapunzel that she was making her favorite food, hazelnut

soup! My mother would constantly do this, announcing from morning time what

goodies she was making for dinner and then keep talking about it throughout the

day. If we didn't show the proper degree of enthusiasm, she would say, " what's

wrong? you don't like [fill in dish name here]??? "

> >

> > It made me sad watching that part of the movie, because I really do feel

rapunzeled to an extent. I really wasn't allowed out at all unless I was with my

brother, father or another adult. Ever. When I got to college, I went wild with

freedom, but I felt that same back and forth war of feelings the movie depicted

so well, of " mother's going to be furious with me " and " ah screw her, I'm

free! " I didn't know how to gauge people, I was (and still feel at times)

socially inept, I was just wanting to dance with everything and everyone, I was

so dizzy with freedom.

> >

> > The sad part as well was that Rapunzel got away. Once I was done with

school, I lived with my parents and it was as though I'd never left until I got

married. At which point my mother treated my husband like the mother in

Tangled... " hmmph, we'll see how this marriage thing goes! you got yourself into

it, now enjoy yourself. "

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hey!

I actually found it quite helpful. I was afraid of the " mother " aka evil witch

in the story, but when Rapunzel overcame the situation, I tasted victory along

with her. Perhaps because my history is so much like this story, not outright

physical abuse, but controlling, neglecting, mind-twisting; it resonated with

me.

I felt the witch and the real parents could be seen in a symbolic way. You

know, like leaving the pain, anger and misery behind to look for the true, pure

love that you should have had growing up?

My husband was very supportive, though. He took the kids out at the end and

gave me a little recovery time. He also said that the movie reminded him

exactly of me and my mom - even down to the hair and eye colors and the singing.

+Coal Miner's Daughter

p.s. I don't think telling you Rapunzel overcame is a spoiler because you know

from the fairy tale that she let down her hair and was rescued from the tower,

right? The movie version is a little different, of course, and better, in my

opinion!

>

> I'm nervous to see it. I told my aunt (my NADAs sister) that it could be

triggering. She went up one side me and down the other, telling me that it was a

MOVIEEEE, and I should just take my girls and enjoy it. That I should stop

dissecting it.

>

> Then she saw it.

>

> And told me not to go see it, that there was no dissection involved.

>

> LOL!

>

[Guest guest]

Hey!

I actually found it quite helpful. I was afraid of the " mother " aka evil witch

in the story, but when Rapunzel overcame the situation, I tasted victory along

with her. Perhaps because my history is so much like this story, not outright

physical abuse, but controlling, neglecting, mind-twisting; it resonated with

me.

I felt the witch and the real parents could be seen in a symbolic way. You

know, like leaving the pain, anger and misery behind to look for the true, pure

love that you should have had growing up?

My husband was very supportive, though. He took the kids out at the end and

gave me a little recovery time. He also said that the movie reminded him

exactly of me and my mom - even down to the hair and eye colors and the singing.

+Coal Miner's Daughter

p.s. I don't think telling you Rapunzel overcame is a spoiler because you know

from the fairy tale that she let down her hair and was rescued from the tower,

right? The movie version is a little different, of course, and better, in my

opinion!

>

> I'm nervous to see it. I told my aunt (my NADAs sister) that it could be

triggering. She went up one side me and down the other, telling me that it was a

MOVIEEEE, and I should just take my girls and enjoy it. That I should stop

dissecting it.

>

> Then she saw it.

>

> And told me not to go see it, that there was no dissection involved.

>

> LOL!

>

[Guest guest]

Hey!

I actually found it quite helpful. I was afraid of the " mother " aka evil witch

in the story, but when Rapunzel overcame the situation, I tasted victory along

with her. Perhaps because my history is so much like this story, not outright

physical abuse, but controlling, neglecting, mind-twisting; it resonated with

me.

I felt the witch and the real parents could be seen in a symbolic way. You

know, like leaving the pain, anger and misery behind to look for the true, pure

love that you should have had growing up?

My husband was very supportive, though. He took the kids out at the end and

gave me a little recovery time. He also said that the movie reminded him

exactly of me and my mom - even down to the hair and eye colors and the singing.

+Coal Miner's Daughter

p.s. I don't think telling you Rapunzel overcame is a spoiler because you know

from the fairy tale that she let down her hair and was rescued from the tower,

right? The movie version is a little different, of course, and better, in my

opinion!

>

> I'm nervous to see it. I told my aunt (my NADAs sister) that it could be

triggering. She went up one side me and down the other, telling me that it was a

MOVIEEEE, and I should just take my girls and enjoy it. That I should stop

dissecting it.

>

> Then she saw it.

>

> And told me not to go see it, that there was no dissection involved.

>

> LOL!

>

[Guest guest]

I did see this a few days ago, and it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to

be. My husband did say that he had some flashbacks to my mother. She was always

on her best behavior when he was around. LOL!

>

> I had seen the posts here about the " mother " being BPD and just saw the movie

with my kids.

>

> Those of you who posted about that were spot-on. The fake mother was not

overtly evil, she was always " just teasing " when she would insult and patronize

her daughter, she was always saying how evil the world is, how you can't trust

anyone but her. Just like my hermit mother.

>

> The characteristic of the fake mother here that was most like my mother was

how she would tell Rapunzel that she was making her favorite food, hazelnut

soup! My mother would constantly do this, announcing from morning time what

goodies she was making for dinner and then keep talking about it throughout the

day. If we didn't show the proper degree of enthusiasm, she would say, " what's

wrong? you don't like [fill in dish name here]??? "

>

> It made me sad watching that part of the movie, because I really do feel

rapunzeled to an extent. I really wasn't allowed out at all unless I was with my

brother, father or another adult. Ever. When I got to college, I went wild with

freedom, but I felt that same back and forth war of feelings the movie depicted

so well, of " mother's going to be furious with me " and " ah screw her, I'm

free! " I didn't know how to gauge people, I was (and still feel at times)

socially inept, I was just wanting to dance with everything and everyone, I was

so dizzy with freedom.

>

> The sad part as well was that Rapunzel got away. Once I was done with school,

I lived with my parents and it was as though I'd never left until I got married.

At which point my mother treated my husband like the mother in Tangled... " hmmph,

we'll see how this marriage thing goes! you got yourself into it, now enjoy

yourself. "

>

[Guest guest]

I did see this a few days ago, and it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to

be. My husband did say that he had some flashbacks to my mother. She was always

on her best behavior when he was around. LOL!

>

> I had seen the posts here about the " mother " being BPD and just saw the movie

with my kids.

>

> Those of you who posted about that were spot-on. The fake mother was not

overtly evil, she was always " just teasing " when she would insult and patronize

her daughter, she was always saying how evil the world is, how you can't trust

anyone but her. Just like my hermit mother.

>

> The characteristic of the fake mother here that was most like my mother was

how she would tell Rapunzel that she was making her favorite food, hazelnut

soup! My mother would constantly do this, announcing from morning time what

goodies she was making for dinner and then keep talking about it throughout the

day. If we didn't show the proper degree of enthusiasm, she would say, " what's

wrong? you don't like [fill in dish name here]??? "

>

> It made me sad watching that part of the movie, because I really do feel

rapunzeled to an extent. I really wasn't allowed out at all unless I was with my

brother, father or another adult. Ever. When I got to college, I went wild with

freedom, but I felt that same back and forth war of feelings the movie depicted

so well, of " mother's going to be furious with me " and " ah screw her, I'm

free! " I didn't know how to gauge people, I was (and still feel at times)

socially inept, I was just wanting to dance with everything and everyone, I was

so dizzy with freedom.

>

> The sad part as well was that Rapunzel got away. Once I was done with school,

I lived with my parents and it was as though I'd never left until I got married.

At which point my mother treated my husband like the mother in Tangled... " hmmph,

we'll see how this marriage thing goes! you got yourself into it, now enjoy

yourself. "

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, this recently came to Australia and I went and saw it. It was kind of scary

seeing the BPD traits in the 'Mum' of Rapunzel. It was so like my Nada in the

way that she would say 'I love you' and 'I'm just kidding' whilst also telling

her how worthless she was and how she couldn't look after herself and how she

was always wrong unless she agreed with her. I went with a close friend of mine,

but I couldn't bring myself to say, that is what my Nada is like. We've spoken a

bit, but I found it very confronting to see it done in the cinemas, I normally

go there to escape the real world. And having it so flowery and in song, was

just creepy, particuarly as my mother acts so caring and calm whilst she rips my

self-esteem to shreds. Like she is doing me a favour!

Thanks for the warning, so I didn't go into this movie blind.

[Guest guest]

Oh God. Just saw Tangled.

Wow, wonder if the producer is a KO.

That fake mom, who was, Not a Mother, nada, was surely a witch/queen and

total manipulator.

Did anyone catch, that at the height of her manipulation to Hoover

Rapunzel back in, where she lied to everyone, manipulated everyone, and

as she was doing her Mother knows best, routine, it was all in the FOG.

Those of you who posted about that were spot-on. The fake mother was

not overtly evil, she was always " just teasing " when she would insult

and patronize her daughter, she was always saying how evil the world is,

how you can't trust anyone but her. Just like my hermit mother.

That is a technique BP s love to use. I have known others who would use

sarcastic humor to wound, then brush it off because it was just a joke.

I can cut you to the quick, then laugh and say I was only kidding, and

you are supposed to suck up your emotions, and just take it, and not

react.

BULLSHIT!

IMHO, it IS evil. It is cruel, and seeks to excuse cruel, unkind

behavior by making it " Humor " .

I loved it when Rapunzel got a case of the Badass on her witch/queen

nada!

And I think we should confront this technique when it is used on us.

Whether you meant it as a joke or not you DO know it hurts me, otherwise

you wouldnt try to laugh it off as only kidding. It does hurt, and I

don t like it, and I want you to stop doing it.

Stuff that, bitch! LOL.

> The characteristic of the fake mother here that was most like my

mother was how she would tell Rapunzel that she was making her favorite

food, hazelnut soup! My mother would constantly do this, announcing

from morning time what goodies she was making for dinner and then keep

talking about it throughout the day. If we didn't show the proper

degree of enthusiasm, she would say, " what's wrong? you don't like

[fill in dish name here]??? "

FOG here, manipulation by guilt and obligation. Now my " recovering KO,

no more FOG, BULLSHIT sensitive " self would say, you know I used to

like it, but you ve talked about it so much, I ve lost my taste for it.

It made me sad watching that part of the movie, because I really do feel

rapunzeled to an extent. I really wasn't allowed out at all unless I was

with my brother, father or another adult. Ever. When I got to college,

I went wild with freedom, but I felt that same back and forth war of

feelings the movie depicted so well, of " mother's going to be furious

with me " and " ah screw her, I'm free! " I didn't know how to gauge

people, I was (and still feel at times) socially inept, I was just

wanting to dance with everything and everyone, I was so dizzy with

freedom.

An apt metaphor for what we KO s experience when we begin to realize

we DO exist apart from nada, and choose to heal and grow. I was just

wanting to dance with everything and everyone, I was so dizzy with

freedom. I love it! As the song says, When you get the choice to sit

it out, or dance, I hope you dance!

>

> The sad part as well was that Rapunzel got away. Once I was done with

school, I lived with my parents and it was as though I'd never left

until I got married. At which point my mother treated my husband like

the mother in Tangled... " hmmph, we'll see how this marriage thing goes!

you got yourself into it, now enjoy yourself. "

I felt so sorry for Rapunzel, and for the rest of us, when she was

alternating between I LOVE THIS FREEDOM! and OH God, I m a TERRIBLE

daughter!

Yes, Ra, that is what they do to us. But the dirty little secret is, a

good , loving parent, a healthy adult parent, lets the conflict between

staying with them and going to experience the freedom be the PARENT s

internal conflict, not the childs. The parent my cry, and say, boy I

sure do miss my ( son, daughter), but outwardly, they are the biggest

cheerleader for them to achieve independence, freedom, and their own

happiness. They make every effort to make the DIL or SIL feel welcome,

and loved, and choose to love them like a new son or daughter, knowing

that as that spouse becomes a part of their child, loving your child

means loving their mate. Making the DIL welcome in your home, means the

son feels welcome, and wants to come. A healthy parent wishes them joy,

not guilt.

A loving , healthy parent has a home in which their adult child is an

always welcome guest. A BP has one in which the adult child is a

prisoner.

And to the statement, hmmph, we'll see how this marriage thing goes!

you got yourself into it, now enjoy yourself. "

My answer is, yes, I did. And I will.

My nada took me aside for one of those horrid MOTHER/son talks the

afternoon before I got married. She said, among other things, but this

stays with me most, Whatever you do, just don t let her take my little

boy away from me.

What a hell of a thing to say? Listen bitch, tomorrow night I m going

to have sex with that woman, so don t talk to me about being your little

boy!

Boy the shit they put us through!

Tangled has a lot of good metaphor s for the BP world. I think this is

one we an add to our Oz repertoire. Anything that helps us dispel the

FOG, or helps us help our friends to make the journey, is a good thing.

Doug

>

[Guest guest]

Oh God. Just saw Tangled.

Wow, wonder if the producer is a KO.

That fake mom, who was, Not a Mother, nada, was surely a witch/queen and

total manipulator.

Did anyone catch, that at the height of her manipulation to Hoover

Rapunzel back in, where she lied to everyone, manipulated everyone, and

as she was doing her Mother knows best, routine, it was all in the FOG.

Those of you who posted about that were spot-on. The fake mother was

not overtly evil, she was always " just teasing " when she would insult

and patronize her daughter, she was always saying how evil the world is,

how you can't trust anyone but her. Just like my hermit mother.

That is a technique BP s love to use. I have known others who would use

sarcastic humor to wound, then brush it off because it was just a joke.

I can cut you to the quick, then laugh and say I was only kidding, and

you are supposed to suck up your emotions, and just take it, and not

react.

BULLSHIT!

IMHO, it IS evil. It is cruel, and seeks to excuse cruel, unkind

behavior by making it " Humor " .

I loved it when Rapunzel got a case of the Badass on her witch/queen

nada!

And I think we should confront this technique when it is used on us.

Whether you meant it as a joke or not you DO know it hurts me, otherwise

you wouldnt try to laugh it off as only kidding. It does hurt, and I

don t like it, and I want you to stop doing it.

Stuff that, bitch! LOL.

> The characteristic of the fake mother here that was most like my

mother was how she would tell Rapunzel that she was making her favorite

food, hazelnut soup! My mother would constantly do this, announcing

from morning time what goodies she was making for dinner and then keep

talking about it throughout the day. If we didn't show the proper

degree of enthusiasm, she would say, " what's wrong? you don't like

[fill in dish name here]??? "

FOG here, manipulation by guilt and obligation. Now my " recovering KO,

no more FOG, BULLSHIT sensitive " self would say, you know I used to

like it, but you ve talked about it so much, I ve lost my taste for it.

It made me sad watching that part of the movie, because I really do feel

rapunzeled to an extent. I really wasn't allowed out at all unless I was

with my brother, father or another adult. Ever. When I got to college,

I went wild with freedom, but I felt that same back and forth war of

feelings the movie depicted so well, of " mother's going to be furious

with me " and " ah screw her, I'm free! " I didn't know how to gauge

people, I was (and still feel at times) socially inept, I was just

wanting to dance with everything and everyone, I was so dizzy with

freedom.

An apt metaphor for what we KO s experience when we begin to realize

we DO exist apart from nada, and choose to heal and grow. I was just

wanting to dance with everything and everyone, I was so dizzy with

freedom. I love it! As the song says, When you get the choice to sit

it out, or dance, I hope you dance!

>

> The sad part as well was that Rapunzel got away. Once I was done with

school, I lived with my parents and it was as though I'd never left

until I got married. At which point my mother treated my husband like

the mother in Tangled... " hmmph, we'll see how this marriage thing goes!

you got yourself into it, now enjoy yourself. "

I felt so sorry for Rapunzel, and for the rest of us, when she was

alternating between I LOVE THIS FREEDOM! and OH God, I m a TERRIBLE

daughter!

Yes, Ra, that is what they do to us. But the dirty little secret is, a

good , loving parent, a healthy adult parent, lets the conflict between

staying with them and going to experience the freedom be the PARENT s

internal conflict, not the childs. The parent my cry, and say, boy I

sure do miss my ( son, daughter), but outwardly, they are the biggest

cheerleader for them to achieve independence, freedom, and their own

happiness. They make every effort to make the DIL or SIL feel welcome,

and loved, and choose to love them like a new son or daughter, knowing

that as that spouse becomes a part of their child, loving your child

means loving their mate. Making the DIL welcome in your home, means the

son feels welcome, and wants to come. A healthy parent wishes them joy,

not guilt.

A loving , healthy parent has a home in which their adult child is an

always welcome guest. A BP has one in which the adult child is a

prisoner.

And to the statement, hmmph, we'll see how this marriage thing goes!

you got yourself into it, now enjoy yourself. "

My answer is, yes, I did. And I will.

My nada took me aside for one of those horrid MOTHER/son talks the

afternoon before I got married. She said, among other things, but this

stays with me most, Whatever you do, just don t let her take my little

boy away from me.

What a hell of a thing to say? Listen bitch, tomorrow night I m going

to have sex with that woman, so don t talk to me about being your little

boy!

Boy the shit they put us through!

Tangled has a lot of good metaphor s for the BP world. I think this is

one we an add to our Oz repertoire. Anything that helps us dispel the

FOG, or helps us help our friends to make the journey, is a good thing.

Doug

>

[Guest guest]

Ah, yes. " ...Cruelties are couched in loving terms. Aggressive and hostile acts

are paraded as thoughtfulness. Selfish manipulations are presented as gifts.

Criticism and slander are slyly disguised as concern. She only wants what is

best for you. She only wants to help you... "

That is the number one characteristic of narcissistic mothers (from an article

by the same name), the heading of trait #1 is " Everything She Does Is Deniable. "

Its not uncommon for someone with bpd to also have traits of narcissistic pd,

from what I've read.

In " Understanding The Borderline Mother " the author presents 4 main sub-types of

borderline pd; the " Queen " bpd is a person with bpd + narcissistic pd.

For the new members, here's the link to the article that lists 20 behaviors

called " Characteristics of Narcissistic Mothers " . I see many of my own nada's

traits and behaviors there.

http://sites.google.com/site/harpyschild/

-Annie

>

> Wow, this recently came to Australia and I went and saw it. It was kind of

scary seeing the BPD traits in the 'Mum' of Rapunzel. It was so like my Nada in

the way that she would say 'I love you' and 'I'm just kidding' whilst also

telling her how worthless she was and how she couldn't look after herself and

how she was always wrong unless she agreed with her. I went with a close friend

of mine, but I couldn't bring myself to say, that is what my Nada is like. We've

spoken a bit, but I found it very confronting to see it done in the cinemas, I

normally go there to escape the real world. And having it so flowery and in

song, was just creepy, particuarly as my mother acts so caring and calm whilst

she rips my self-esteem to shreds. Like she is doing me a favour!

>

> Thanks for the warning, so I didn't go into this movie blind.

>

[Guest guest]

Ah, yes. " ...Cruelties are couched in loving terms. Aggressive and hostile acts

are paraded as thoughtfulness. Selfish manipulations are presented as gifts.

Criticism and slander are slyly disguised as concern. She only wants what is

best for you. She only wants to help you... "

That is the number one characteristic of narcissistic mothers (from an article

by the same name), the heading of trait #1 is " Everything She Does Is Deniable. "

Its not uncommon for someone with bpd to also have traits of narcissistic pd,

from what I've read.

In " Understanding The Borderline Mother " the author presents 4 main sub-types of

borderline pd; the " Queen " bpd is a person with bpd + narcissistic pd.

For the new members, here's the link to the article that lists 20 behaviors

called " Characteristics of Narcissistic Mothers " . I see many of my own nada's

traits and behaviors there.

http://sites.google.com/site/harpyschild/

-Annie

>

> Wow, this recently came to Australia and I went and saw it. It was kind of

scary seeing the BPD traits in the 'Mum' of Rapunzel. It was so like my Nada in

the way that she would say 'I love you' and 'I'm just kidding' whilst also

telling her how worthless she was and how she couldn't look after herself and

how she was always wrong unless she agreed with her. I went with a close friend

of mine, but I couldn't bring myself to say, that is what my Nada is like. We've

spoken a bit, but I found it very confronting to see it done in the cinemas, I

normally go there to escape the real world. And having it so flowery and in

song, was just creepy, particuarly as my mother acts so caring and calm whilst

she rips my self-esteem to shreds. Like she is doing me a favour!

>

> Thanks for the warning, so I didn't go into this movie blind.

>

[Guest guest]

Ah, yes. " ...Cruelties are couched in loving terms. Aggressive and hostile acts

are paraded as thoughtfulness. Selfish manipulations are presented as gifts.

Criticism and slander are slyly disguised as concern. She only wants what is

best for you. She only wants to help you... "

That is the number one characteristic of narcissistic mothers (from an article

by the same name), the heading of trait #1 is " Everything She Does Is Deniable. "

Its not uncommon for someone with bpd to also have traits of narcissistic pd,

from what I've read.

In " Understanding The Borderline Mother " the author presents 4 main sub-types of

borderline pd; the " Queen " bpd is a person with bpd + narcissistic pd.

For the new members, here's the link to the article that lists 20 behaviors

called " Characteristics of Narcissistic Mothers " . I see many of my own nada's

traits and behaviors there.

http://sites.google.com/site/harpyschild/

-Annie

>

> Wow, this recently came to Australia and I went and saw it. It was kind of

scary seeing the BPD traits in the 'Mum' of Rapunzel. It was so like my Nada in

the way that she would say 'I love you' and 'I'm just kidding' whilst also

telling her how worthless she was and how she couldn't look after herself and

how she was always wrong unless she agreed with her. I went with a close friend

of mine, but I couldn't bring myself to say, that is what my Nada is like. We've

spoken a bit, but I found it very confronting to see it done in the cinemas, I

normally go there to escape the real world. And having it so flowery and in

song, was just creepy, particuarly as my mother acts so caring and calm whilst

she rips my self-esteem to shreds. Like she is doing me a favour!

>

> Thanks for the warning, so I didn't go into this movie blind.

>

[Guest guest]

Tangled should be put on our official required reading/viewing list.

:-) INCREDIBLE film for KOs!

+Coal Miner's Daughter

>

>>

> Tangled has a lot of good metaphor s for the BP world. I think this is

> one we an add to our Oz repertoire. Anything that helps us dispel the

> FOG, or helps us help our friends to make the journey, is a good thing.

>

> Doug

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Aw, yes...very much like a KO lifestyle, Nada included.

I identify whit Rapenzel's realization in that cool scene towards the end. She

had a VERY quick realization (near the end) that she had been raised by someone

other than a mother.

My realization that something was terribly wrong also happened in a second. It

was reading something at 3am in the morning because I couldn't sleep. Granted, I

was willing and ready to accept in that moment but still felt it must be me..

I did a 180 realization that was a blessing and a rude awakening. I felt like

puking. hehe

Joy

> >

> >>

> > Tangled has a lot of good metaphor s for the BP world. I think this is

> > one we an add to our Oz repertoire. Anything that helps us dispel the

> > FOG, or helps us help our friends to make the journey, is a good thing.

> >

> > Doug

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Aw, yes...very much like a KO lifestyle, Nada included.

I identify whit Rapenzel's realization in that cool scene towards the end. She

had a VERY quick realization (near the end) that she had been raised by someone

other than a mother.

My realization that something was terribly wrong also happened in a second. It

was reading something at 3am in the morning because I couldn't sleep. Granted, I

was willing and ready to accept in that moment but still felt it must be me..

I did a 180 realization that was a blessing and a rude awakening. I felt like

puking. hehe

Joy

> >

> >>

> > Tangled has a lot of good metaphor s for the BP world. I think this is

> > one we an add to our Oz repertoire. Anything that helps us dispel the

> > FOG, or helps us help our friends to make the journey, is a good thing.

> >

> > Doug

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, Doug, I can't believe -- actually I can -- your mother said that to you the

day before you got married. Sigh. She may as well have asked if she could come

along on the honeymoon.

My mother asked me -- DURING my wedding (I was unfortunately seated in front of

her) -- " when is this over?? " Almost 20 years later, I realize she meant my

marriage, not my wedding.

Those crazy hermits!

>

> Oh God. Just saw Tangled.

>

> Wow, wonder if the producer is a KO.

>

> That fake mom, who was, Not a Mother, nada, was surely a witch/queen and

> total manipulator.

>

> Did anyone catch, that at the height of her manipulation to Hoover

> Rapunzel back in, where she lied to everyone, manipulated everyone, and

> as she was doing her Mother knows best, routine, it was all in the FOG.

>

>

> Those of you who posted about that were spot-on. The fake mother was

> not overtly evil, she was always " just teasing " when she would insult

> and patronize her daughter, she was always saying how evil the world is,

> how you can't trust anyone but her. Just like my hermit mother.

>

> That is a technique BP s love to use. I have known others who would use

> sarcastic humor to wound, then brush it off because it was just a joke.

> I can cut you to the quick, then laugh and say I was only kidding, and

> you are supposed to suck up your emotions, and just take it, and not

> react.

>

> BULLSHIT!

>

> IMHO, it IS evil. It is cruel, and seeks to excuse cruel, unkind

> behavior by making it " Humor " .

>

> I loved it when Rapunzel got a case of the Badass on her witch/queen

> nada!

>

> And I think we should confront this technique when it is used on us.

> Whether you meant it as a joke or not you DO know it hurts me, otherwise

> you wouldnt try to laugh it off as only kidding. It does hurt, and I

> don t like it, and I want you to stop doing it.

>

> Stuff that, bitch! LOL.

>

>

> > The characteristic of the fake mother here that was most like my

> mother was how she would tell Rapunzel that she was making her favorite

> food, hazelnut soup! My mother would constantly do this, announcing

> from morning time what goodies she was making for dinner and then keep

> talking about it throughout the day. If we didn't show the proper

> degree of enthusiasm, she would say, " what's wrong? you don't like

> [fill in dish name here]??? "

>

>

> FOG here, manipulation by guilt and obligation. Now my " recovering KO,

> no more FOG, BULLSHIT sensitive " self would say, you know I used to

> like it, but you ve talked about it so much, I ve lost my taste for it.

>

> It made me sad watching that part of the movie, because I really do feel

> rapunzeled to an extent. I really wasn't allowed out at all unless I was

> with my brother, father or another adult. Ever. When I got to college,

> I went wild with freedom, but I felt that same back and forth war of

> feelings the movie depicted so well, of " mother's going to be furious

> with me " and " ah screw her, I'm free! " I didn't know how to gauge

> people, I was (and still feel at times) socially inept, I was just

> wanting to dance with everything and everyone, I was so dizzy with

> freedom.

>

> An apt metaphor for what we KO s experience when we begin to realize

> we DO exist apart from nada, and choose to heal and grow. I was just

> wanting to dance with everything and everyone, I was so dizzy with

> freedom. I love it! As the song says, When you get the choice to sit

> it out, or dance, I hope you dance!

> >

> > The sad part as well was that Rapunzel got away. Once I was done with

> school, I lived with my parents and it was as though I'd never left

> until I got married. At which point my mother treated my husband like

> the mother in Tangled... " hmmph, we'll see how this marriage thing goes!

> you got yourself into it, now enjoy yourself. "

>

>

> I felt so sorry for Rapunzel, and for the rest of us, when she was

> alternating between I LOVE THIS FREEDOM! and OH God, I m a TERRIBLE

> daughter!

>

> Yes, Ra, that is what they do to us. But the dirty little secret is, a

> good , loving parent, a healthy adult parent, lets the conflict between

> staying with them and going to experience the freedom be the PARENT s

> internal conflict, not the childs. The parent my cry, and say, boy I

> sure do miss my ( son, daughter), but outwardly, they are the biggest

> cheerleader for them to achieve independence, freedom, and their own

> happiness. They make every effort to make the DIL or SIL feel welcome,

> and loved, and choose to love them like a new son or daughter, knowing

> that as that spouse becomes a part of their child, loving your child

> means loving their mate. Making the DIL welcome in your home, means the

> son feels welcome, and wants to come. A healthy parent wishes them joy,

> not guilt.

>

> A loving , healthy parent has a home in which their adult child is an

> always welcome guest. A BP has one in which the adult child is a

> prisoner.

>

>

> And to the statement, hmmph, we'll see how this marriage thing goes!

> you got yourself into it, now enjoy yourself. "

>

> My answer is, yes, I did. And I will.

>

>

> My nada took me aside for one of those horrid MOTHER/son talks the

> afternoon before I got married. She said, among other things, but this

> stays with me most, Whatever you do, just don t let her take my little

> boy away from me.

>

> What a hell of a thing to say? Listen bitch, tomorrow night I m going

> to have sex with that woman, so don t talk to me about being your little

> boy!

>

> Boy the shit they put us through!

>

> Tangled has a lot of good metaphor s for the BP world. I think this is

> one we an add to our Oz repertoire. Anything that helps us dispel the

> FOG, or helps us help our friends to make the journey, is a good thing.

>

> Doug

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, Doug, I can't believe -- actually I can -- your mother said that to you the

day before you got married. Sigh. She may as well have asked if she could come

along on the honeymoon.

My mother asked me -- DURING my wedding (I was unfortunately seated in front of

her) -- " when is this over?? " Almost 20 years later, I realize she meant my

marriage, not my wedding.

Those crazy hermits!

>

> Oh God. Just saw Tangled.

>

> Wow, wonder if the producer is a KO.

>

> That fake mom, who was, Not a Mother, nada, was surely a witch/queen and

> total manipulator.

>

> Did anyone catch, that at the height of her manipulation to Hoover

> Rapunzel back in, where she lied to everyone, manipulated everyone, and

> as she was doing her Mother knows best, routine, it was all in the FOG.

>

>

> Those of you who posted about that were spot-on. The fake mother was

> not overtly evil, she was always " just teasing " when she would insult

> and patronize her daughter, she was always saying how evil the world is,

> how you can't trust anyone but her. Just like my hermit mother.

>

> That is a technique BP s love to use. I have known others who would use

> sarcastic humor to wound, then brush it off because it was just a joke.

> I can cut you to the quick, then laugh and say I was only kidding, and

> you are supposed to suck up your emotions, and just take it, and not

> react.

>

> BULLSHIT!

>

> IMHO, it IS evil. It is cruel, and seeks to excuse cruel, unkind

> behavior by making it " Humor " .

>

> I loved it when Rapunzel got a case of the Badass on her witch/queen

> nada!

>

> And I think we should confront this technique when it is used on us.

> Whether you meant it as a joke or not you DO know it hurts me, otherwise

> you wouldnt try to laugh it off as only kidding. It does hurt, and I

> don t like it, and I want you to stop doing it.

>

> Stuff that, bitch! LOL.

>

>

> > The characteristic of the fake mother here that was most like my

> mother was how she would tell Rapunzel that she was making her favorite

> food, hazelnut soup! My mother would constantly do this, announcing

> from morning time what goodies she was making for dinner and then keep

> talking about it throughout the day. If we didn't show the proper

> degree of enthusiasm, she would say, " what's wrong? you don't like

> [fill in dish name here]??? "

>

>

> FOG here, manipulation by guilt and obligation. Now my " recovering KO,

> no more FOG, BULLSHIT sensitive " self would say, you know I used to

> like it, but you ve talked about it so much, I ve lost my taste for it.

>

> It made me sad watching that part of the movie, because I really do feel

> rapunzeled to an extent. I really wasn't allowed out at all unless I was

> with my brother, father or another adult. Ever. When I got to college,

> I went wild with freedom, but I felt that same back and forth war of

> feelings the movie depicted so well, of " mother's going to be furious

> with me " and " ah screw her, I'm free! " I didn't know how to gauge

> people, I was (and still feel at times) socially inept, I was just

> wanting to dance with everything and everyone, I was so dizzy with

> freedom.

>

> An apt metaphor for what we KO s experience when we begin to realize

> we DO exist apart from nada, and choose to heal and grow. I was just

> wanting to dance with everything and everyone, I was so dizzy with

> freedom. I love it! As the song says, When you get the choice to sit

> it out, or dance, I hope you dance!

> >

> > The sad part as well was that Rapunzel got away. Once I was done with

> school, I lived with my parents and it was as though I'd never left

> until I got married. At which point my mother treated my husband like

> the mother in Tangled... " hmmph, we'll see how this marriage thing goes!

> you got yourself into it, now enjoy yourself. "

>

>

> I felt so sorry for Rapunzel, and for the rest of us, when she was

> alternating between I LOVE THIS FREEDOM! and OH God, I m a TERRIBLE

> daughter!

>

> Yes, Ra, that is what they do to us. But the dirty little secret is, a

> good , loving parent, a healthy adult parent, lets the conflict between

> staying with them and going to experience the freedom be the PARENT s

> internal conflict, not the childs. The parent my cry, and say, boy I

> sure do miss my ( son, daughter), but outwardly, they are the biggest

> cheerleader for them to achieve independence, freedom, and their own

> happiness. They make every effort to make the DIL or SIL feel welcome,

> and loved, and choose to love them like a new son or daughter, knowing

> that as that spouse becomes a part of their child, loving your child

> means loving their mate. Making the DIL welcome in your home, means the

> son feels welcome, and wants to come. A healthy parent wishes them joy,

> not guilt.

>

> A loving , healthy parent has a home in which their adult child is an

> always welcome guest. A BP has one in which the adult child is a

> prisoner.

>

>

> And to the statement, hmmph, we'll see how this marriage thing goes!

> you got yourself into it, now enjoy yourself. "

>

> My answer is, yes, I did. And I will.

>

>

> My nada took me aside for one of those horrid MOTHER/son talks the

> afternoon before I got married. She said, among other things, but this

> stays with me most, Whatever you do, just don t let her take my little

> boy away from me.

>

> What a hell of a thing to say? Listen bitch, tomorrow night I m going

> to have sex with that woman, so don t talk to me about being your little

> boy!

>

> Boy the shit they put us through!

>

> Tangled has a lot of good metaphor s for the BP world. I think this is

> one we an add to our Oz repertoire. Anything that helps us dispel the

> FOG, or helps us help our friends to make the journey, is a good thing.

>

> Doug

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Whatever you do, just don t let her take my little

> boy away from me.

Honestly, what an absurd thing to say. This is what furiates me. When Nada says,

you're " MY " child meaning " MINE " . Like your body, mind and soul.

No, we are not. Parenthood is to care, love (unconditionally) and " respect " your

child.

But again they're overruled by acute fear of abandonment, so I guess they just

blurt out the most hurtful thing to feel at ease a bit.

Sigh......

So sorry for what you had to endure on your wedding day.

>

> I had seen the posts here about the " mother " being BPD and just saw the movie

with my kids.

>

> Those of you who posted about that were spot-on. The fake mother was not

overtly evil, she was always " just teasing " when she would insult and patronize

her daughter, she was always saying how evil the world is, how you can't trust

anyone but her. Just like my hermit mother.

>

> The characteristic of the fake mother here that was most like my mother was

how she would tell Rapunzel that she was making her favorite food, hazelnut

soup! My mother would constantly do this, announcing from morning time what

goodies she was making for dinner and then keep talking about it throughout the

day. If we didn't show the proper degree of enthusiasm, she would say, " what's

wrong? you don't like [fill in dish name here]??? "

>

> It made me sad watching that part of the movie, because I really do feel

rapunzeled to an extent. I really wasn't allowed out at all unless I was with my

brother, father or another adult. Ever. When I got to college, I went wild with

freedom, but I felt that same back and forth war of feelings the movie depicted

so well, of " mother's going to be furious with me " and " ah screw her, I'm

free! " I didn't know how to gauge people, I was (and still feel at times)

socially inept, I was just wanting to dance with everything and everyone, I was

so dizzy with freedom.

>

> The sad part as well was that Rapunzel got away. Once I was done with school,

I lived with my parents and it was as though I'd never left until I got married.

At which point my mother treated my husband like the mother in Tangled... " hmmph,

we'll see how this marriage thing goes! you got yourself into it, now enjoy

yourself. "

>

[Guest guest]

Whatever you do, just don t let her take my little

> boy away from me.

Honestly, what an absurd thing to say. This is what furiates me. When Nada says,

you're " MY " child meaning " MINE " . Like your body, mind and soul.

No, we are not. Parenthood is to care, love (unconditionally) and " respect " your

child.

But again they're overruled by acute fear of abandonment, so I guess they just

blurt out the most hurtful thing to feel at ease a bit.

Sigh......

So sorry for what you had to endure on your wedding day.

>

> I had seen the posts here about the " mother " being BPD and just saw the movie

with my kids.

>

> Those of you who posted about that were spot-on. The fake mother was not

overtly evil, she was always " just teasing " when she would insult and patronize

her daughter, she was always saying how evil the world is, how you can't trust

anyone but her. Just like my hermit mother.

>

> The characteristic of the fake mother here that was most like my mother was

how she would tell Rapunzel that she was making her favorite food, hazelnut

soup! My mother would constantly do this, announcing from morning time what

goodies she was making for dinner and then keep talking about it throughout the

day. If we didn't show the proper degree of enthusiasm, she would say, " what's

wrong? you don't like [fill in dish name here]??? "

>

> It made me sad watching that part of the movie, because I really do feel

rapunzeled to an extent. I really wasn't allowed out at all unless I was with my

brother, father or another adult. Ever. When I got to college, I went wild with

freedom, but I felt that same back and forth war of feelings the movie depicted

so well, of " mother's going to be furious with me " and " ah screw her, I'm

free! " I didn't know how to gauge people, I was (and still feel at times)

socially inept, I was just wanting to dance with everything and everyone, I was

so dizzy with freedom.

>

> The sad part as well was that Rapunzel got away. Once I was done with school,

I lived with my parents and it was as though I'd never left until I got married.

At which point my mother treated my husband like the mother in Tangled... " hmmph,

we'll see how this marriage thing goes! you got yourself into it, now enjoy

yourself. "

>

[Guest guest]

Whatever you do, just don t let her take my little

> boy away from me.

Honestly, what an absurd thing to say. This is what furiates me. When Nada says,

you're " MY " child meaning " MINE " . Like your body, mind and soul.

No, we are not. Parenthood is to care, love (unconditionally) and " respect " your

child.

But again they're overruled by acute fear of abandonment, so I guess they just

blurt out the most hurtful thing to feel at ease a bit.

Sigh......

So sorry for what you had to endure on your wedding day.

>

> I had seen the posts here about the " mother " being BPD and just saw the movie

with my kids.

>

> Those of you who posted about that were spot-on. The fake mother was not

overtly evil, she was always " just teasing " when she would insult and patronize

her daughter, she was always saying how evil the world is, how you can't trust

anyone but her. Just like my hermit mother.

>

> The characteristic of the fake mother here that was most like my mother was

how she would tell Rapunzel that she was making her favorite food, hazelnut

soup! My mother would constantly do this, announcing from morning time what

goodies she was making for dinner and then keep talking about it throughout the

day. If we didn't show the proper degree of enthusiasm, she would say, " what's

wrong? you don't like [fill in dish name here]??? "

>

> It made me sad watching that part of the movie, because I really do feel

rapunzeled to an extent. I really wasn't allowed out at all unless I was with my

brother, father or another adult. Ever. When I got to college, I went wild with

freedom, but I felt that same back and forth war of feelings the movie depicted

so well, of " mother's going to be furious with me " and " ah screw her, I'm

free! " I didn't know how to gauge people, I was (and still feel at times)

socially inept, I was just wanting to dance with everything and everyone, I was

so dizzy with freedom.

>

> The sad part as well was that Rapunzel got away. Once I was done with school,

I lived with my parents and it was as though I'd never left until I got married.

At which point my mother treated my husband like the mother in Tangled... " hmmph,

we'll see how this marriage thing goes! you got yourself into it, now enjoy

yourself. "

>

[Guest guest]

I haven't seen Tangled yet, but find this thread really interesting since one of

my friends sent me a text over the holidays (when he knew I was visiting my BPD

mother) saying " I just saw tangled, and if your mom tries to get you to go with

her to a tower, don't go!!! " . Even outsiders can see the relation...

> >

> > I had seen the posts here about the " mother " being BPD and just saw the

movie with my kids.

> >

> > Those of you who posted about that were spot-on. The fake mother was not

overtly evil, she was always " just teasing " when she would insult and patronize

her daughter, she was always saying how evil the world is, how you can't trust

anyone but her. Just like my hermit mother.

> >

> > The characteristic of the fake mother here that was most like my mother was

how she would tell Rapunzel that she was making her favorite food, hazelnut

soup! My mother would constantly do this, announcing from morning time what

goodies she was making for dinner and then keep talking about it throughout the

day. If we didn't show the proper degree of enthusiasm, she would say, " what's

wrong? you don't like [fill in dish name here]??? "

> >

> > It made me sad watching that part of the movie, because I really do feel

rapunzeled to an extent. I really wasn't allowed out at all unless I was with my

brother, father or another adult. Ever. When I got to college, I went wild with

freedom, but I felt that same back and forth war of feelings the movie depicted

so well, of " mother's going to be furious with me " and " ah screw her, I'm

free! " I didn't know how to gauge people, I was (and still feel at times)

socially inept, I was just wanting to dance with everything and everyone, I was

so dizzy with freedom.

> >

> > The sad part as well was that Rapunzel got away. Once I was done with

school, I lived with my parents and it was as though I'd never left until I got

married. At which point my mother treated my husband like the mother in

Tangled... " hmmph, we'll see how this marriage thing goes! you got yourself into

it, now enjoy yourself. "

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Interesting thought. Words from Nada s do not mean the same thing as

words from the rest of us.

When I say, this is MY son, I am referring to a relationship. This

young man is the child I raised, the little boy who rode on my back,

someone I love and respect and take pride in. This is my son, who I m

learning to relate to as an adult son to an adult father.

When a Nada says, this is MY son, she means I M THE MOTHER. I own

this. It is part of the things I m entitled to, in order to fulfill my

needs. She is referring to ownership and obligation.

Doug