Re: Here goes... counseling

[Guest guest]

Whoah.... Re counseling - I'd sure like us to ease up on that message as it

strikes me as a reinforcement of " somebody else has the answers " and only with

expert help can poor little old me find my truth. Is there a rush on getting it

right?

Our truths may be hidden, they may be obscure, they may be counter to popular

belief - but they are there if we pause, be kind, talk nice, breathe. TRUST, and

give time time. Counseling is sometimes necessary but is highly overused in our

culture especially when it comes to finding one's own voice in something as

day-to-day as facing the fork, the plate, the refrigerator and our own heads and

hearts in any given moment.

I don't belive in self-sabotage - I think that's a cliche and that " failure "

might mean something as simple as having an expectation that wasn't in alignment

with reality.

We - we strong women - are fully equipped to handle life on life's terms and to

sort out piece-by-piece the mysterious processes that cause us to choose or give

up choice all together.

Our intuitive is always working on our behalf, even when we're fighting to swim

upstream towards something our minds have latched onto as success.

Hope this doesn't offend too many people too deeply; let me merely add that I am

a licensed therapist who works as supervisor in Emergency Services and that I

believe we, as a culture, over-rely on outside experts across the board.

Therapy disempowers as often as it empowers - it is a double-edged sword to be

used with discretion and care.

And recovery is a process, not a one-step banishment of the problem.

With love and e-hugs,

Sandarah

[Guest guest]

Sandarah,

I NEEDED to hear that. Really, really needed that. I can join support groups,

talk to a therapist, etc. until I'm blue in the face but what I struggle with

and what I NEED to recover are not those things--it's simply listening to

myself. That's difficult for me, and each day I find new hurdles. Sometimes it

seems like the defense mechanisms I learned as a kid are throwing everything out

there just to stop me from learning how to turn in and listen. And sometimes I

feel like I'm no match for those defenses, and that's the really scary part of

intuitive eating, intuitive living, intuitive anything.

Thank you for writing this :-)

Rish

>

> Whoah.... Re counseling - I'd sure like us to ease up on that message as it

strikes me as a reinforcement of " somebody else has the answers " and only with

expert help can poor little old me find my truth. Is there a rush on getting it

right?

>

> Our truths may be hidden, they may be obscure, they may be counter to popular

belief - but they are there if we pause, be kind, talk nice, breathe. TRUST, and

give time time. Counseling is sometimes necessary but is highly overused in our

culture especially when it comes to finding one's own voice in something as

day-to-day as facing the fork, the plate, the refrigerator and our own heads and

hearts in any given moment.

>

> I don't belive in self-sabotage - I think that's a cliche and that " failure "

might mean something as simple as having an expectation that wasn't in alignment

with reality.

>

> We - we strong women - are fully equipped to handle life on life's terms and

to sort out piece-by-piece the mysterious processes that cause us to choose or

give up choice all together.

>

> Our intuitive is always working on our behalf, even when we're fighting to

swim upstream towards something our minds have latched onto as success.

>

> Hope this doesn't offend too many people too deeply; let me merely add that I

am a licensed therapist who works as supervisor in Emergency Services and that I

believe we, as a culture, over-rely on outside experts across the board.

Therapy disempowers as often as it empowers - it is a double-edged sword to be

used with discretion and care.

>

> And recovery is a process, not a one-step banishment of the problem.

>

> With love and e-hugs,

> Sandarah

>

[Guest guest]

Sandarah,

I NEEDED to hear that. Really, really needed that. I can join support groups,

talk to a therapist, etc. until I'm blue in the face but what I struggle with

and what I NEED to recover are not those things--it's simply listening to

myself. That's difficult for me, and each day I find new hurdles. Sometimes it

seems like the defense mechanisms I learned as a kid are throwing everything out

there just to stop me from learning how to turn in and listen. And sometimes I

feel like I'm no match for those defenses, and that's the really scary part of

intuitive eating, intuitive living, intuitive anything.

Thank you for writing this :-)

Rish

>

> Whoah.... Re counseling - I'd sure like us to ease up on that message as it

strikes me as a reinforcement of " somebody else has the answers " and only with

expert help can poor little old me find my truth. Is there a rush on getting it

right?

>

> Our truths may be hidden, they may be obscure, they may be counter to popular

belief - but they are there if we pause, be kind, talk nice, breathe. TRUST, and

give time time. Counseling is sometimes necessary but is highly overused in our

culture especially when it comes to finding one's own voice in something as

day-to-day as facing the fork, the plate, the refrigerator and our own heads and

hearts in any given moment.

>

> I don't belive in self-sabotage - I think that's a cliche and that " failure "

might mean something as simple as having an expectation that wasn't in alignment

with reality.

>

> We - we strong women - are fully equipped to handle life on life's terms and

to sort out piece-by-piece the mysterious processes that cause us to choose or

give up choice all together.

>

> Our intuitive is always working on our behalf, even when we're fighting to

swim upstream towards something our minds have latched onto as success.

>

> Hope this doesn't offend too many people too deeply; let me merely add that I

am a licensed therapist who works as supervisor in Emergency Services and that I

believe we, as a culture, over-rely on outside experts across the board.

Therapy disempowers as often as it empowers - it is a double-edged sword to be

used with discretion and care.

>

> And recovery is a process, not a one-step banishment of the problem.

>

> With love and e-hugs,

> Sandarah

>

[Guest guest]

Sandarah,

I NEEDED to hear that. Really, really needed that. I can join support groups,

talk to a therapist, etc. until I'm blue in the face but what I struggle with

and what I NEED to recover are not those things--it's simply listening to

myself. That's difficult for me, and each day I find new hurdles. Sometimes it

seems like the defense mechanisms I learned as a kid are throwing everything out

there just to stop me from learning how to turn in and listen. And sometimes I

feel like I'm no match for those defenses, and that's the really scary part of

intuitive eating, intuitive living, intuitive anything.

Thank you for writing this :-)

Rish

>

> Whoah.... Re counseling - I'd sure like us to ease up on that message as it

strikes me as a reinforcement of " somebody else has the answers " and only with

expert help can poor little old me find my truth. Is there a rush on getting it

right?

>

> Our truths may be hidden, they may be obscure, they may be counter to popular

belief - but they are there if we pause, be kind, talk nice, breathe. TRUST, and

give time time. Counseling is sometimes necessary but is highly overused in our

culture especially when it comes to finding one's own voice in something as

day-to-day as facing the fork, the plate, the refrigerator and our own heads and

hearts in any given moment.

>

> I don't belive in self-sabotage - I think that's a cliche and that " failure "

might mean something as simple as having an expectation that wasn't in alignment

with reality.

>

> We - we strong women - are fully equipped to handle life on life's terms and

to sort out piece-by-piece the mysterious processes that cause us to choose or

give up choice all together.

>

> Our intuitive is always working on our behalf, even when we're fighting to

swim upstream towards something our minds have latched onto as success.

>

> Hope this doesn't offend too many people too deeply; let me merely add that I

am a licensed therapist who works as supervisor in Emergency Services and that I

believe we, as a culture, over-rely on outside experts across the board.

Therapy disempowers as often as it empowers - it is a double-edged sword to be

used with discretion and care.

>

> And recovery is a process, not a one-step banishment of the problem.

>

> With love and e-hugs,

> Sandarah

>

[Guest guest]

You are very welcome. We all need to hear that - because our culture doesn't

say it often enough. Trust, reach out for support to peers, be patient and keep

on trucking even when you've veered off the road for a time. Seek professional

help only as the last resort. Blessings. Sandarah

> >

> > Whoah.... Re counseling - I'd sure like us to ease up on that message as it

strikes me as a reinforcement of " somebody else has the answers " and only with

expert help can poor little old me find my truth. Is there a rush on getting it

right?

> >

> > Our truths may be hidden, they may be obscure, they may be counter to

popular belief - but they are there if we pause, be kind, talk nice, breathe.

TRUST, and give time time. Counseling is sometimes necessary but is highly

overused in our culture especially when it comes to finding one's own voice in

something as day-to-day as facing the fork, the plate, the refrigerator and our

own heads and hearts in any given moment.

> >

> > I don't belive in self-sabotage - I think that's a cliche and that " failure "

might mean something as simple as having an expectation that wasn't in alignment

with reality.

> >

> > We - we strong women - are fully equipped to handle life on life's terms and

to sort out piece-by-piece the mysterious processes that cause us to choose or

give up choice all together.

> >

> > Our intuitive is always working on our behalf, even when we're fighting to

swim upstream towards something our minds have latched onto as success.

> >

> > Hope this doesn't offend too many people too deeply; let me merely add that

I am a licensed therapist who works as supervisor in Emergency Services and that

I believe we, as a culture, over-rely on outside experts across the board.

Therapy disempowers as often as it empowers - it is a double-edged sword to be

used with discretion and care.

> >

> > And recovery is a process, not a one-step banishment of the problem.

> >

> > With love and e-hugs,

> > Sandarah

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Sandarah,

I agree we are too quick to assume a professional counselor is needed to fix

personal problems. And IE is all about getting in touch with what is going on

inside of us. The problem I've had is that I often am not fully aware of what

is happening inside, especially when I get a strong urge to stuff food when I'm

not hungry. If I'm calm enough, writing in my journal can expose the real

problem and the urge to eat disappears as I clarify the issues and what possible

actions I can take. Oftentimes, however, I am far too upset to calmly figure it

out on my own. But talking to another human being about it works to both calm

me down and clarify the problem and my response. The other person is not fixing

me. I am discovering what is wrong myself. If they have wisdom, they may give

me some insight I wouldn't have seen right away myself. But reaching out is the

self-care step I first take and then talking it out clarifies an action (even if

it involves accepting that something is out of my control, which can be a huge

relief in itself) and this allows me to move forward in a positive direction

instead of punishing myself/running away from/delaying dealing with the problem

with excess food. A counselor isn't necessary for this. I've considered it, as

a number of people have suggested it over the years, but I am reluctant to cede

my authority over my life in that way to some unknown " expert " with who knows

what background and perspective, not to mention the expense.

On the other hand, I've had friends who went to counseling and it was a turning

point toward positive change. Of course, I've also watched friends go to

counselor after counselor, with no gain and plenty of negatives. It's a

personal choice.

Jane

>

> Whoah.... Re counseling - I'd sure like us to ease up on that message as it

strikes me as a reinforcement of " somebody else has the answers " and only with

expert help can poor little old me find my truth. Is there a rush on getting it

right?

>

> Our truths may be hidden, they may be obscure, they may be counter to popular

belief - but they are there if we pause, be kind, talk nice, breathe. TRUST, and

give time time. Counseling is sometimes necessary but is highly overused in our

culture especially when it comes to finding one's own voice in something as

day-to-day as facing the fork, the plate, the refrigerator and our own heads and

hearts in any given moment.

>

> I don't belive in self-sabotage - I think that's a cliche and that " failure "

might mean something as simple as having an expectation that wasn't in alignment

with reality.

>

> We - we strong women - are fully equipped to handle life on life's terms and

to sort out piece-by-piece the mysterious processes that cause us to choose or

give up choice all together.

>

> Our intuitive is always working on our behalf, even when we're fighting to

swim upstream towards something our minds have latched onto as success.

>

> Hope this doesn't offend too many people too deeply; let me merely add that I

am a licensed therapist who works as supervisor in Emergency Services and that I

believe we, as a culture, over-rely on outside experts across the board.

Therapy disempowers as often as it empowers - it is a double-edged sword to be

used with discretion and care.

>

> And recovery is a process, not a one-step banishment of the problem.

>

> With love and e-hugs,

> Sandarah

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for highlighting this perspective Sandarah. I am inclined to agree

with you. It seems quite apparent to me that much of diet mentality is instilled

distrust of ourselves. Counseling can be useful in a 'tool' capacity - providing

a 'boost' or leverage one may not have from time to time. I like to think of IE

as a GPS back to my inner self. Such a device may point the way, but my own feet

directed by my own head will have to do the actual work to get 'there'.

I also wanted to thank you for helping me get over myself in regard to a

previous post where I likened beginning the IE process with a toddler holding

onto a mother's hand as they first learn to walk. I wondered if I hadn't been

off base or harsh sounding like I was admonishing or demeaning that part of the

process. I do feel like IE has as it's objective a total return to that genuine

person that we were as infants and small children. As such, counseling can be

like a loving and knowledgeable parent - needed until we can get under way on

our OWN power ;-)

Ehugs, Katcha

IEing since March 2007

>

> Whoah.... Re counseling - I'd sure like us to ease up on that message as it

strikes me as a reinforcement of " somebody else has the answers " and only with

expert help can poor little old me find my truth. Is there a rush on getting it

right?

>

> Our truths may be hidden, they may be obscure, they may be counter to popular

belief - but they are there if we pause, be kind, talk nice, breathe. TRUST, and

give time time. Counseling is sometimes necessary but is highly overused in our

culture especially when it comes to finding one's own voice in something as

day-to-day as facing the fork, the plate, the refrigerator and our own heads and

hearts in any given moment.

>

> I don't belive in self-sabotage - I think that's a cliche and that " failure "

might mean something as simple as having an expectation that wasn't in alignment

with reality.

>

> We - we strong women - are fully equipped to handle life on life's terms and

to sort out piece-by-piece the mysterious processes that cause us to choose or

give up choice all together.

>

> Our intuitive is always working on our behalf, even when we're fighting to

swim upstream towards something our minds have latched onto as success.

>

> Hope this doesn't offend too many people too deeply; let me merely add that I

am a licensed therapist who works as supervisor in Emergency Services and that I

believe we, as a culture, over-rely on outside experts across the board.

Therapy disempowers as often as it empowers - it is a double-edged sword to be

used with discretion and care.

>

> And recovery is a process, not a one-step banishment of the problem.

>

> With love and e-hugs,

> Sandarah

>

[Guest guest]

Sandarah,

I'm not offended by your message, but as someone who feels they have benefitted

greatly from counseling, I would like to present a different perspective.

Like Jane, I would say that I don't see my therapist as someone who is going to

" fix " me. Rather, I see her as someone who is helping me develop the tools and

skills to " fix " myself. I think of her in the same way that I think of a

teacher in any aspect of life. For example, if I'd read enough books and

practiced enough, through trial and error I probably could have learned how to

swim without having a teacher. But maybe it would have taken me a heck of a lot

longer, and in the worst case scenario, I might have gotten myself into some

situations that were more difficult than they needed to be. (as Jane mentioned,

sometimes in the midst of a difficult situation, you may not have the awareness

to figure out what's going on or may be too upset to see things clearly) The

teacher gives me techniques to help me swim better (or in the case of IE, to

manage my emotions better so that I don't use food as a coping mechanism), but I

have to be willing to use the the tools and practice them if I want them to

work. The teacher can't swim for me or wave a magic wand and turn me into a

swimmer.

You say that if we pause, be kind, talk nice to ourselves and give it time, that

we can find the answers on our own. Perhaps, but I spent 44 years doing the

exact opposite of that 99% of the time. If I knew *how* to do those things, I

would have done them already. Someone else used the analogy of trying to learn

to swim while you are drowning. Well, for some people, going it alone is like

tossing them in the deep end and expecting them to figure it out without

drowning. Wouldn't it be smarter to take some swimming lessons first?

You ask whether there's a rush on getting it right. I wouldn't necessarily say

there's a rush, but I've suffered a lot already and it's had a pretty

significant negative impact on many areas of my life for far too long. For

decades in fact. I'd like to not spend my next four decades suffering, as well.

What's wrong with working with someone who can help me get there faster

(recognizing that faster is a relative term)?

I guess I would also disagree, to a certain extent, with the idea that we

over-rely on experts, at least with regard to counseling. I know very few

people who get counseling. In my experience, I think many people still see

needing counseling as a sign of weakness. Personally, I avoided counseling

forever. I kept telling myself that I was smart and resourceful, I worked my

way through college and graduate school with few positive role models and little

to no external help, I moved across country twice all by myself to places where

I didn't know a soul and I figured out how to survive on my own, I have a

successful career, I travel extensively by myself, I even backpacked through

Europe alone at the age of 21. I've accomplished a lot and I know how to take

care of myself in many ways. So, I *SHOULD* have been able to figure this whole

dieting business out. I read every thing I could get my hands on, researched,

you name it, I did it. And yet, I couldn't figure it out, no matter what I did,

and that became something else to beat myself up over. And all the " stuff " that

was going on in my head that was driving me to eat in the first place along with

myriad external factors, kept me from hearing and trusting that internal voice

you mention. So that wasn't a resource I had access to (though I'm not so sure

that voice had much that was good to say to me, anyway). To use another

analogy, it's sort of like being dropped in the middle of the forrest and having

to find your way out without any tools or equipment or survival training. Some

people have an innate sense of direction and of survival skills. They will be

scrappy and figure out how to survive and get back to safety. Some people do

not have the inner tools at all, and they will lay down and die. Some people

will draw on every thing they have, and they will have good days and bad, and

maybe they'll even get close to safety, but may still never arrive. I kind of

consider myself in that third camp. I was doing everything I knew how to do,

and maybe I was even close to getting it, who knows. But I had no positive

reinforcement and no way to know if I was on the right track or heading over the

edge of a cliff. I'm not sure I would have made it on my own, at least not in a

way that didn't prolong my suffering far more than necessary.

Finally, for me, the counselor has been very valuable as just someone to talk

to. Not everyone has a partner or family that they can discuss this kind of

stuff with. For a variety of reasons that I won't bore the list with, I don't

have a lot of friends to turn to and the ones I do have, don't get IE at all.

In fact, I was told by one that I was " overthinking " this and just needed to

follow a diet and get on with it. And with regard to the other " stuff " that

impacts my eating, no one really wants to hear that. People's lives are hard

enough already. They've got their own stuff to deal with. They don't want to

come home after a hard day and have to listen to your stuff, too. And while a

list like this is a great tool, *trust* me when I say that you guys *don't* want

me here pouring my heart out every day, either. That'd get really old, really

fast. So, a therapist can also be support that you don't have in other areas of

your life. It has been for me.

At the end of the day, I agree that we need to trust ourselves more and that too

many people have unrealistic expectations of therapists and expect to be " fixed "

rather than do the work that they need to do to get the results they want. And

I disagree with the use of therapists and counseling in that way. Also, like

anything else, there are good therapists and bad ones (and good therapies and

bad therapies) as well as those with whom we may not " click " for any number of

reasons. Like any other area of our lives, we have the responsibility to do our

homework and advocate for ourselves and get the treatment we deserve. Also,

you're correct that not every situation calls for a therapist. But I worry

about the potential ramifications of a message that says counseling or therapy

should be a last resort. Although I don't believe we have a mental illness,

something about the last resort message strikes me as akin to the stigma that

prevents people from getting mental health treatment when they need it. I think

the help of a good counselor can prevent needless suffering and that's a very

valuable thing. I wonder if I'd have nearly as much " baggage " as I do now had I

sought out counseling a lot sooner.

Just another viewpoint...

Josie >)

> >

> > Whoah.... Re counseling - I'd sure like us to ease up on that message as it

strikes me as a reinforcement of " somebody else has the answers " and only with

expert help can poor little old me find my truth. Is there a rush on getting it

right?

> >

> > Our truths may be hidden, they may be obscure, they may be counter to

popular belief - but they are there if we pause, be kind, talk nice, breathe.

TRUST, and give time time. Counseling is sometimes necessary but is highly

overused in our culture especially when it comes to finding one's own voice in

something as day-to-day as facing the fork, the plate, the refrigerator and our

own heads and hearts in any given moment.

> >

> > I don't belive in self-sabotage - I think that's a cliche and that " failure "

might mean something as simple as having an expectation that wasn't in alignment

with reality.

> >

> > We - we strong women - are fully equipped to handle life on life's terms and

to sort out piece-by-piece the mysterious processes that cause us to choose or

give up choice all together.

> >

> > Our intuitive is always working on our behalf, even when we're fighting to

swim upstream towards something our minds have latched onto as success.

> >

> > Hope this doesn't offend too many people too deeply; let me merely add that

I am a licensed therapist who works as supervisor in Emergency Services and that

I believe we, as a culture, over-rely on outside experts across the board.

Therapy disempowers as often as it empowers - it is a double-edged sword to be

used with discretion and care.

> >

> > And recovery is a process, not a one-step banishment of the problem.

> >

> > With love and e-hugs,

> > Sandarah

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Josie, great post. I couldn't have said it better.  I was thinking along the same lines but was not able to verbalize it today.  Muddy thinking going on in my brain as my grandson would say.  Thanks.  That post helped me a lot and I too have benefited from counseling a great deal.  I won't go into it here.  But thanks again. Sandy

 

Sandarah,

I'm not offended by your message, but as someone who feels they have benefitted greatly from counseling, I would like to present a different perspective.

Like Jane, I would say that I don't see my therapist as someone who is going to " fix " me. Rather, I see her as someone who is helping me develop the tools and skills to " fix " myself. I think of her in the same way that I think of a teacher in any aspect of life. For example, if I'd read enough books and practiced enough, through trial and error I probably could have learned how to swim without having a teacher. But maybe it would have taken me a heck of a lot longer, and in the worst case scenario, I might have gotten myself into some situations that were more difficult than they needed to be. (as Jane mentioned, sometimes in the midst of a difficult situation, you may not have the awareness to figure out what's going on or may be too upset to see things clearly) The teacher gives me techniques to help me swim better (or in the case of IE, to manage my emotions better so that I don't use food as a coping mechanism), but I have to be willing to use the the tools and practice them if I want them to work. The teacher can't swim for me or wave a magic wand and turn me into a swimmer.

You say that if we pause, be kind, talk nice to ourselves and give it time, that we can find the answers on our own. Perhaps, but I spent 44 years doing the exact opposite of that 99% of the time. If I knew *how* to do those things, I would have done them already. Someone else used the analogy of trying to learn to swim while you are drowning. Well, for some people, going it alone is like tossing them in the deep end and expecting them to figure it out without drowning. Wouldn't it be smarter to take some swimming lessons first?

You ask whether there's a rush on getting it right. I wouldn't necessarily say there's a rush, but I've suffered a lot already and it's had a pretty significant negative impact on many areas of my life for far too long. For decades in fact. I'd like to not spend my next four decades suffering, as well. What's wrong with working with someone who can help me get there faster (recognizing that faster is a relative term)?

I guess I would also disagree, to a certain extent, with the idea that we over-rely on experts, at least with regard to counseling. I know very few people who get counseling. In my experience, I think many people still see needing counseling as a sign of weakness. Personally, I avoided counseling forever. I kept telling myself that I was smart and resourceful, I worked my way through college and graduate school with few positive role models and little to no external help, I moved across country twice all by myself to places where I didn't know a soul and I figured out how to survive on my own, I have a successful career, I travel extensively by myself, I even backpacked through Europe alone at the age of 21. I've accomplished a lot and I know how to take care of myself in many ways. So, I *SHOULD* have been able to figure this whole dieting business out. I read every thing I could get my hands on, researched, you name it, I did it. And yet, I couldn't figure it out, no matter what I did, and that became something else to beat myself up over. And all the " stuff " that was going on in my head that was driving me to eat in the first place along with myriad external factors, kept me from hearing and trusting that internal voice you mention. So that wasn't a resource I had access to (though I'm not so sure that voice had much that was good to say to me, anyway). To use another analogy, it's sort of like being dropped in the middle of the forrest and having to find your way out without any tools or equipment or survival training. Some people have an innate sense of direction and of survival skills. They will be scrappy and figure out how to survive and get back to safety. Some people do not have the inner tools at all, and they will lay down and die. Some people will draw on every thing they have, and they will have good days and bad, and maybe they'll even get close to safety, but may still never arrive. I kind of consider myself in that third camp. I was doing everything I knew how to do, and maybe I was even close to getting it, who knows. But I had no positive reinforcement and no way to know if I was on the right track or heading over the edge of a cliff. I'm not sure I would have made it on my own, at least not in a way that didn't prolong my suffering far more than necessary.

Finally, for me, the counselor has been very valuable as just someone to talk to. Not everyone has a partner or family that they can discuss this kind of stuff with. For a variety of reasons that I won't bore the list with, I don't have a lot of friends to turn to and the ones I do have, don't get IE at all. In fact, I was told by one that I was " overthinking " this and just needed to follow a diet and get on with it. And with regard to the other " stuff " that impacts my eating, no one really wants to hear that. People's lives are hard enough already. They've got their own stuff to deal with. They don't want to come home after a hard day and have to listen to your stuff, too. And while a list like this is a great tool, *trust* me when I say that you guys *don't* want me here pouring my heart out every day, either. That'd get really old, really fast. So, a therapist can also be support that you don't have in other areas of your life. It has been for me.

At the end of the day, I agree that we need to trust ourselves more and that too many people have unrealistic expectations of therapists and expect to be " fixed " rather than do the work that they need to do to get the results they want. And I disagree with the use of therapists and counseling in that way. Also, like anything else, there are good therapists and bad ones (and good therapies and bad therapies) as well as those with whom we may not " click " for any number of reasons. Like any other area of our lives, we have the responsibility to do our homework and advocate for ourselves and get the treatment we deserve. Also, you're correct that not every situation calls for a therapist. But I worry about the potential ramifications of a message that says counseling or therapy should be a last resort. Although I don't believe we have a mental illness, something about the last resort message strikes me as akin to the stigma that prevents people from getting mental health treatment when they need it. I think the help of a good counselor can prevent needless suffering and that's a very valuable thing. I wonder if I'd have nearly as much " baggage " as I do now had I sought out counseling a lot sooner.

Just another viewpoint...

Josie >)

> >

> > Whoah.... Re counseling - I'd sure like us to ease up on that message as it strikes me as a reinforcement of " somebody else has the answers " and only with expert help can poor little old me find my truth. Is there a rush on getting it right?

> >

> > Our truths may be hidden, they may be obscure, they may be counter to popular belief - but they are there if we pause, be kind, talk nice, breathe. TRUST, and give time time. Counseling is sometimes necessary but is highly overused in our culture especially when it comes to finding one's own voice in something as day-to-day as facing the fork, the plate, the refrigerator and our own heads and hearts in any given moment.

> >

> > I don't belive in self-sabotage - I think that's a cliche and that " failure " might mean something as simple as having an expectation that wasn't in alignment with reality.

> >

> > We - we strong women - are fully equipped to handle life on life's terms and to sort out piece-by-piece the mysterious processes that cause us to choose or give up choice all together.

> >

> > Our intuitive is always working on our behalf, even when we're fighting to swim upstream towards something our minds have latched onto as success.

> >

> > Hope this doesn't offend too many people too deeply; let me merely add that I am a licensed therapist who works as supervisor in Emergency Services and that I believe we, as a culture, over-rely on outside experts across the board. Therapy disempowers as often as it empowers - it is a double-edged sword to be used with discretion and care.

> >

> > And recovery is a process, not a one-step banishment of the problem.

> >

> > With love and e-hugs,

> > Sandarah

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Josie. When I wrote my post I took a deep breath as I knew it would step on

some toes. But I felt the need to intercept a message that might lead someone

to believe they needed an outside professional when, perhaps, they didn't.

Some time back Hillman wrote a book titled something like, " We've had 100

years of therapy and the world is getting worse " .

It's my fear that, worst case scenario, our culture of therapy is whitttling

away at individuality, creative expression, self reliance and resilience. Best

case scenario, it helps some people get insights, healing, self-esteem and

support they could have never found elsewhere. And it's probably a darned-sight

better than what we had before we had therapy... Sometimes though, I wonder.

Thanks; best wishes. Sandarah

>

> Sandarah,

>

> I'm not offended by your message, but as someone who feels they have

benefitted greatly from counseling, I would like to present a different

perspective.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Josie. When I wrote my post I took a deep breath as I knew it would step on

some toes. But I felt the need to intercept a message that might lead someone

to believe they needed an outside professional when, perhaps, they didn't.

Some time back Hillman wrote a book titled something like, " We've had 100

years of therapy and the world is getting worse " .

It's my fear that, worst case scenario, our culture of therapy is whitttling

away at individuality, creative expression, self reliance and resilience. Best

case scenario, it helps some people get insights, healing, self-esteem and

support they could have never found elsewhere. And it's probably a darned-sight

better than what we had before we had therapy... Sometimes though, I wonder.

Thanks; best wishes. Sandarah

>

> Sandarah,

>

> I'm not offended by your message, but as someone who feels they have

benefitted greatly from counseling, I would like to present a different

perspective.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Josie. When I wrote my post I took a deep breath as I knew it would step on

some toes. But I felt the need to intercept a message that might lead someone

to believe they needed an outside professional when, perhaps, they didn't.

Some time back Hillman wrote a book titled something like, " We've had 100

years of therapy and the world is getting worse " .

It's my fear that, worst case scenario, our culture of therapy is whitttling

away at individuality, creative expression, self reliance and resilience. Best

case scenario, it helps some people get insights, healing, self-esteem and

support they could have never found elsewhere. And it's probably a darned-sight

better than what we had before we had therapy... Sometimes though, I wonder.

Thanks; best wishes. Sandarah

>

> Sandarah,

>

> I'm not offended by your message, but as someone who feels they have

benefitted greatly from counseling, I would like to present a different

perspective.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Josie,

Sounds like seeing a counselor about your eating issues has been a healthy move

for you.

This list is great because most of us probably have no one we can really discuss

IE issues with in any detail, especially day in and day out. Most folks don't

have a clue and are likely to say really unsupportive things if we try to

discuss our eating.

We all need friends we can discuss the ups and downs and stresses of life with

though. And those upsets do impact eating behavior, whether we mention the

eating to others or not. If the people around us are uninterested in hearing

anything deep, then they are acquaintances, not friends.

Having a counselor we pay to listen to our issues can be helpful, especially

when we are currently isolated, until we can reach out to others and develop

deep friendships. It's not the same as being loved though, which is a basic

human need. Love isn't an optional thing, only for people lucky enough to have

a partner and/or a supportive family at this time in their lives. Reaching out

to others is a critical part of self-care, if we are to lead healthy and

fulfilling lives. (It's not easy though, especially if we've recently moved.

In my experience, it took lots of time and lots of disappointments. But

eventually, the efforts pay off and we are part of a loving community, although

it probably isn't the one we would have planned.)

By the way, Josie, I too have avoided the counseling thing like the plague, not

wanting to appear to need help, but a few months ago I was ready and actively

tried to find an IE counselor here and couldn't. Then I found this list, which

has really helped. It's not the same as one-on-one counseling, but hey, it's

available whenever and is free. But if I'd found a local IE counselor, I'd be

going.

Jane

> > >

> > > Whoah.... Re counseling - I'd sure like us to ease up on that message as

it strikes me as a reinforcement of " somebody else has the answers " and only

with expert help can poor little old me find my truth. Is there a rush on

getting it right?

> > >

> > > Our truths may be hidden, they may be obscure, they may be counter to

popular belief - but they are there if we pause, be kind, talk nice, breathe.

TRUST, and give time time. Counseling is sometimes necessary but is highly

overused in our culture especially when it comes to finding one's own voice in

something as day-to-day as facing the fork, the plate, the refrigerator and our

own heads and hearts in any given moment.

> > >

> > > I don't belive in self-sabotage - I think that's a cliche and that

" failure " might mean something as simple as having an expectation that wasn't in

alignment with reality.

> > >

> > > We - we strong women - are fully equipped to handle life on life's terms

and to sort out piece-by-piece the mysterious processes that cause us to choose

or give up choice all together.

> > >

> > > Our intuitive is always working on our behalf, even when we're fighting to

swim upstream towards something our minds have latched onto as success.

> > >

> > > Hope this doesn't offend too many people too deeply; let me merely add

that I am a licensed therapist who works as supervisor in Emergency Services and

that I believe we, as a culture, over-rely on outside experts across the board.

Therapy disempowers as often as it empowers - it is a double-edged sword to be

used with discretion and care.

> > >

> > > And recovery is a process, not a one-step banishment of the problem.

> > >

> > > With love and e-hugs,

> > > Sandarah

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Sandarah, I appreciate your response. I am in therapy now where I am empowered; however I have also been in therapy that dis-empowered me. I think the difference is that a good therapist will help you find the inner strength and answers that were within you the entire time, but that you somehow couldn't access. A not-so-great therapist will impose external suggestions on you and become just another "expert" to please and give you more rules to follow.

Mimi

Subject: Re: Here goes... counselingTo: IntuitiveEating_Support Date: Tuesday, September 20, 2011, 1:37 PM

Whoah.... Re counseling - I'd sure like us to ease up on that message as it strikes me as a reinforcement of "somebody else has the answers" and only with expert help can poor little old me find my truth. Is there a rush on getting it right? Our truths may be hidden, they may be obscure, they may be counter to popular belief - but they are there if we pause, be kind, talk nice, breathe. TRUST, and give time time. Counseling is sometimes necessary but is highly overused in our culture especially when it comes to finding one's own voice in something as day-to-day as facing the fork, the plate, the refrigerator and our own heads and hearts in any given moment. I don't belive in self-sabotage - I think that's a cliche and that "failure" might mean something as simple as having an expectation that wasn't in alignment with reality. We - we strong women - are fully equipped to handle life on life's terms and to sort out

piece-by-piece the mysterious processes that cause us to choose or give up choice all together. Our intuitive is always working on our behalf, even when we're fighting to swim upstream towards something our minds have latched onto as success. Hope this doesn't offend too many people too deeply; let me merely add that I am a licensed therapist who works as supervisor in Emergency Services and that I believe we, as a culture, over-rely on outside experts across the board. Therapy disempowers as often as it empowers - it is a double-edged sword to be used with discretion and care. And recovery is a process, not a one-step banishment of the problem.With love and e-hugs,Sandarah

[Guest guest]

Sandarah, I appreciate your response. I am in therapy now where I am empowered; however I have also been in therapy that dis-empowered me. I think the difference is that a good therapist will help you find the inner strength and answers that were within you the entire time, but that you somehow couldn't access. A not-so-great therapist will impose external suggestions on you and become just another "expert" to please and give you more rules to follow.

Mimi

Subject: Re: Here goes... counselingTo: IntuitiveEating_Support Date: Tuesday, September 20, 2011, 1:37 PM

Whoah.... Re counseling - I'd sure like us to ease up on that message as it strikes me as a reinforcement of "somebody else has the answers" and only with expert help can poor little old me find my truth. Is there a rush on getting it right? Our truths may be hidden, they may be obscure, they may be counter to popular belief - but they are there if we pause, be kind, talk nice, breathe. TRUST, and give time time. Counseling is sometimes necessary but is highly overused in our culture especially when it comes to finding one's own voice in something as day-to-day as facing the fork, the plate, the refrigerator and our own heads and hearts in any given moment. I don't belive in self-sabotage - I think that's a cliche and that "failure" might mean something as simple as having an expectation that wasn't in alignment with reality. We - we strong women - are fully equipped to handle life on life's terms and to sort out

piece-by-piece the mysterious processes that cause us to choose or give up choice all together. Our intuitive is always working on our behalf, even when we're fighting to swim upstream towards something our minds have latched onto as success. Hope this doesn't offend too many people too deeply; let me merely add that I am a licensed therapist who works as supervisor in Emergency Services and that I believe we, as a culture, over-rely on outside experts across the board. Therapy disempowers as often as it empowers - it is a double-edged sword to be used with discretion and care. And recovery is a process, not a one-step banishment of the problem.With love and e-hugs,Sandarah