Re: Do you think it's possible?...

[Guest guest]

According to the site " bully online " there is a difference between being

mentally ill and receiving psychological injury.

Psychological injury such as post-traumatic stress disorder is something a

mentally healthy person can acquire from a single traumatic incident (such as

being assaulted and raped) or a continuously stressful environment, such as

being frequently bullied at school, remaining in an abusive marriage, or being a

soldier in combat.

Being raised by abusive or negligent personality-disordered parents (long-term

abuse, ongoing trauma) is even more likely to result in long-term psychological

injury for their children.

There is a movement in the psychiatric community to add *complex* ptsd as a

sub-category of a ptsd diagnosis, to differentiate the results of short-term or

one-time trauma from the results of long-term or chronic trauma.

Here's a link to the anti-bullying UK site " bully online " and their article

about bullying in the family:

http://www.bullyonline.org/related/family.htm

-Annie

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > I agree with everything Ann said,that was very well put.

> > >

> > > I know for sure that it's possible to suppress memory.My case is too

> > > complicated to go into detail without writing a book but it sounds like

> > > you've got a really great therapist who knows what she's doing.I know

> > > there's that whole controversy about " false memories " aka " repressed

> > > memories " and while I have no doubt that unfortunately there are unethical

> > > therapists out there,it makes me angry to hear about " repressed memory "

> > > being called non existent as if there is no such thing.

> > >

> > > One thing that happened to me was that the lack of mirroring from nada and

> > > fada was so total and so severe that I often repressed painful events--I

> > > simply had nowhere to put them.

> > >

> > > One hopefully brief example of how that worked is with my best friend who

> > > drowned when we were five.She actually drowned in highly suspicious

> > > circumstances,in the company of an older girl who was a psycho,but it was

> > > classified as a tragic accident.

> > >

> > > The only " discussion " nada ever had with me about it was to shove a

> > > newspaper in my face after Ellen's body had been found in the local creek

> > > and scream at me, " There! You see! She's dead! " because I was continuing to

> > > say that it all had to be a mistake: I was in denial.

> > >

> > > I had no way of processing my grief or even of thinking about what had

> > > happened since my feelings about it didn't matter to anyone,AT ALL.

> > >

> > > One day when I was eight I was with my grandmother in her car driving to

> > > her house on a Sunday afternoon and we drove over the bridge that went

over

> > > the creek.There were police cars/fire trucks on the side of the road and

> > > gawkers standing around.Out in the creek there were rescue personnel in a

> > > boat using grappling hooks.

> > >

> > > Automatically,I freaked.I had no conscious memory whatsoever of what had

> > > happened to Ellen--I wasn't even thinking about her.I just had this

> > > automatic reaction that I didn't connect to Ellen at all,and didn't until

I

> > > thought about this later as an adult.

> > >

> > > I demanded that my grandmother stop the car so I could get out and

> > > watch.She refused and told me I didn't want to see that,it was clear

someone

> > > had possibly drowned.I started screaming that I KNEW someone had drowned

and

> > > that was why I wanted to watch,I wanted to see if they found the body,I

> > > wanted to see.

> > >

> > > She got very angry with me for being so horrible and so creepy,to want to

> > > actually watch a body being retrieved from the creek.She was very

disgusted

> > > with me.

> > >

> > > I was in tears.I felt like something horrible was going to happen if I

> > > didn't find out for sure whether or not somebody had drowned.I felt like I

> > > was going crazy and I felt like I just couldn't bear this absolute horror

I

> > > felt.Again,these were raw feelings and I made no connection at all to

Ellen.

> > >

> > > I was extremely upset all day.I felt like I was having a waking

> > > nightmare,but the specific link to that specific memory of Ellen drowning

> > > didn't come up.On the ride home I insisted that we drive past the creek

> > > because my grandmother was going a different way and she got very angry

with

> > > me again and disgusted again that I STILL wanted to " watch " .I was in tears

> > > again and kept saying, " You don't understand,I HAVE to see,you don't

> > > understand,I HAVE to see... "

> > >

> > > She yelled at me that no,I certainly did not have to see that and as

> > > punishment for my outrageous tantrum she wasn't going to have me over to

her

> > > house the next Sunday.

> > >

> > > When we got home,she told my parents what I had done and said to

> > > them, " There's somthing wrong with her,I've never seen her like this,it's

> > > very disturbing that she'd be so fascinated with somebody drowning,there's

> > > something wrong with her... "

> > >

> > > Yeah,well,they both knew that lol.Of course there was something wrong with

> > > me,there wans't anything wrong with *them*!

> > >

> > > None of them remembered that my best friend had drowned in that creek and

> > > that might have something to do with my extreme reaction because I doubt

any

> > > of them even remembered,my experiences were of zero importance.

> > >

> > > In my early twenties when I was allowing myself to remember the things

that

> > > had happened to me that whole thing with Ellen seemed like it must be some

> > > weird thing I had made up.Did I really have a friend who had drowned?

> > >

> > > I went to the library and looked it up on microfiche,half expecting to

find

> > > nothing although I swore I remembered nada shoving a newspaper in my

> > > face.And there it was: several newspaper articles from when she was

missing

> > > until she was found,exactly as I remembered it,even down to the time of

year

> > > and what the weather had been like.And the photos of her: she even looked

> > > the way I was remembering my friend.I sat there and cried,for the first

> > > time,finally able to grieve.

> > >

> > > For years I completely repressed all memories of Ellen and of that psycho

> > > girl,as if none of it had ever happened.But it had,all of it.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

According to the site " bully online " there is a difference between being

mentally ill and receiving psychological injury.

Psychological injury such as post-traumatic stress disorder is something a

mentally healthy person can acquire from a single traumatic incident (such as

being assaulted and raped) or a continuously stressful environment, such as

being frequently bullied at school, remaining in an abusive marriage, or being a

soldier in combat.

Being raised by abusive or negligent personality-disordered parents (long-term

abuse, ongoing trauma) is even more likely to result in long-term psychological

injury for their children.

There is a movement in the psychiatric community to add *complex* ptsd as a

sub-category of a ptsd diagnosis, to differentiate the results of short-term or

one-time trauma from the results of long-term or chronic trauma.

Here's a link to the anti-bullying UK site " bully online " and their article

about bullying in the family:

http://www.bullyonline.org/related/family.htm

-Annie

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > I agree with everything Ann said,that was very well put.

> > >

> > > I know for sure that it's possible to suppress memory.My case is too

> > > complicated to go into detail without writing a book but it sounds like

> > > you've got a really great therapist who knows what she's doing.I know

> > > there's that whole controversy about " false memories " aka " repressed

> > > memories " and while I have no doubt that unfortunately there are unethical

> > > therapists out there,it makes me angry to hear about " repressed memory "

> > > being called non existent as if there is no such thing.

> > >

> > > One thing that happened to me was that the lack of mirroring from nada and

> > > fada was so total and so severe that I often repressed painful events--I

> > > simply had nowhere to put them.

> > >

> > > One hopefully brief example of how that worked is with my best friend who

> > > drowned when we were five.She actually drowned in highly suspicious

> > > circumstances,in the company of an older girl who was a psycho,but it was

> > > classified as a tragic accident.

> > >

> > > The only " discussion " nada ever had with me about it was to shove a

> > > newspaper in my face after Ellen's body had been found in the local creek

> > > and scream at me, " There! You see! She's dead! " because I was continuing to

> > > say that it all had to be a mistake: I was in denial.

> > >

> > > I had no way of processing my grief or even of thinking about what had

> > > happened since my feelings about it didn't matter to anyone,AT ALL.

> > >

> > > One day when I was eight I was with my grandmother in her car driving to

> > > her house on a Sunday afternoon and we drove over the bridge that went

over

> > > the creek.There were police cars/fire trucks on the side of the road and

> > > gawkers standing around.Out in the creek there were rescue personnel in a

> > > boat using grappling hooks.

> > >

> > > Automatically,I freaked.I had no conscious memory whatsoever of what had

> > > happened to Ellen--I wasn't even thinking about her.I just had this

> > > automatic reaction that I didn't connect to Ellen at all,and didn't until

I

> > > thought about this later as an adult.

> > >

> > > I demanded that my grandmother stop the car so I could get out and

> > > watch.She refused and told me I didn't want to see that,it was clear

someone

> > > had possibly drowned.I started screaming that I KNEW someone had drowned

and

> > > that was why I wanted to watch,I wanted to see if they found the body,I

> > > wanted to see.

> > >

> > > She got very angry with me for being so horrible and so creepy,to want to

> > > actually watch a body being retrieved from the creek.She was very

disgusted

> > > with me.

> > >

> > > I was in tears.I felt like something horrible was going to happen if I

> > > didn't find out for sure whether or not somebody had drowned.I felt like I

> > > was going crazy and I felt like I just couldn't bear this absolute horror

I

> > > felt.Again,these were raw feelings and I made no connection at all to

Ellen.

> > >

> > > I was extremely upset all day.I felt like I was having a waking

> > > nightmare,but the specific link to that specific memory of Ellen drowning

> > > didn't come up.On the ride home I insisted that we drive past the creek

> > > because my grandmother was going a different way and she got very angry

with

> > > me again and disgusted again that I STILL wanted to " watch " .I was in tears

> > > again and kept saying, " You don't understand,I HAVE to see,you don't

> > > understand,I HAVE to see... "

> > >

> > > She yelled at me that no,I certainly did not have to see that and as

> > > punishment for my outrageous tantrum she wasn't going to have me over to

her

> > > house the next Sunday.

> > >

> > > When we got home,she told my parents what I had done and said to

> > > them, " There's somthing wrong with her,I've never seen her like this,it's

> > > very disturbing that she'd be so fascinated with somebody drowning,there's

> > > something wrong with her... "

> > >

> > > Yeah,well,they both knew that lol.Of course there was something wrong with

> > > me,there wans't anything wrong with *them*!

> > >

> > > None of them remembered that my best friend had drowned in that creek and

> > > that might have something to do with my extreme reaction because I doubt

any

> > > of them even remembered,my experiences were of zero importance.

> > >

> > > In my early twenties when I was allowing myself to remember the things

that

> > > had happened to me that whole thing with Ellen seemed like it must be some

> > > weird thing I had made up.Did I really have a friend who had drowned?

> > >

> > > I went to the library and looked it up on microfiche,half expecting to

find

> > > nothing although I swore I remembered nada shoving a newspaper in my

> > > face.And there it was: several newspaper articles from when she was

missing

> > > until she was found,exactly as I remembered it,even down to the time of

year

> > > and what the weather had been like.And the photos of her: she even looked

> > > the way I was remembering my friend.I sat there and cried,for the first

> > > time,finally able to grieve.

> > >

> > > For years I completely repressed all memories of Ellen and of that psycho

> > > girl,as if none of it had ever happened.But it had,all of it.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes yes yes Annie, spot on. My T always says I have complex PTSD but it's

not in the DSM, and doesn't look like it will be in the new edition either.

It's unfortunate. So my Dx just says " PTSD & Depression " . But I think

there is an important distinction between complex PTSD & single-trauma PTSD.

Mia

On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 12:16 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

>

>

> According to the site " bully online " there is a difference between being

> mentally ill and receiving psychological injury.

>

> Psychological injury such as post-traumatic stress disorder is something a

> mentally healthy person can acquire from a single traumatic incident (such

> as being assaulted and raped) or a continuously stressful environment, such

> as being frequently bullied at school, remaining in an abusive marriage, or

> being a soldier in combat.

>

> Being raised by abusive or negligent personality-disordered parents

> (long-term abuse, ongoing trauma) is even more likely to result in long-term

> psychological injury for their children.

>

> There is a movement in the psychiatric community to add *complex* ptsd as a

> sub-category of a ptsd diagnosis, to differentiate the results of short-term

> or one-time trauma from the results of long-term or chronic trauma.

>

> Here's a link to the anti-bullying UK site " bully online " and their article

> about bullying in the family:

>

> http://www.bullyonline.org/related/family.htm

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I agree with everything Ann said,that was very well put.

> > > >

> > > > I know for sure that it's possible to suppress memory.My case is too

> > > > complicated to go into detail without writing a book but it sounds

> like

> > > > you've got a really great therapist who knows what she's doing.I know

> > > > there's that whole controversy about " false memories " aka " repressed

> > > > memories " and while I have no doubt that unfortunately there are

> unethical

> > > > therapists out there,it makes me angry to hear about " repressed

> memory "

> > > > being called non existent as if there is no such thing.

> > > >

> > > > One thing that happened to me was that the lack of mirroring from

> nada and

> > > > fada was so total and so severe that I often repressed painful

> events--I

> > > > simply had nowhere to put them.

> > > >

> > > > One hopefully brief example of how that worked is with my best friend

> who

> > > > drowned when we were five.She actually drowned in highly suspicious

> > > > circumstances,in the company of an older girl who was a psycho,but it

> was

> > > > classified as a tragic accident.

> > > >

> > > > The only " discussion " nada ever had with me about it was to shove a

> > > > newspaper in my face after Ellen's body had been found in the local

> creek

> > > > and scream at me, " There! You see! She's dead! " because I was

> continuing to

> > > > say that it all had to be a mistake: I was in denial.

> > > >

> > > > I had no way of processing my grief or even of thinking about what

> had

> > > > happened since my feelings about it didn't matter to anyone,AT ALL.

> > > >

> > > > One day when I was eight I was with my grandmother in her car driving

> to

> > > > her house on a Sunday afternoon and we drove over the bridge that

> went over

> > > > the creek.There were police cars/fire trucks on the side of the road

> and

> > > > gawkers standing around.Out in the creek there were rescue personnel

> in a

> > > > boat using grappling hooks.

> > > >

> > > > Automatically,I freaked.I had no conscious memory whatsoever of what

> had

> > > > happened to Ellen--I wasn't even thinking about her.I just had this

> > > > automatic reaction that I didn't connect to Ellen at all,and didn't

> until I

> > > > thought about this later as an adult.

> > > >

> > > > I demanded that my grandmother stop the car so I could get out and

> > > > watch.She refused and told me I didn't want to see that,it was clear

> someone

> > > > had possibly drowned.I started screaming that I KNEW someone had

> drowned and

> > > > that was why I wanted to watch,I wanted to see if they found the

> body,I

> > > > wanted to see.

> > > >

> > > > She got very angry with me for being so horrible and so creepy,to

> want to

> > > > actually watch a body being retrieved from the creek.She was very

> disgusted

> > > > with me.

> > > >

> > > > I was in tears.I felt like something horrible was going to happen if

> I

> > > > didn't find out for sure whether or not somebody had drowned.I felt

> like I

> > > > was going crazy and I felt like I just couldn't bear this absolute

> horror I

> > > > felt.Again,these were raw feelings and I made no connection at all to

> Ellen.

> > > >

> > > > I was extremely upset all day.I felt like I was having a waking

> > > > nightmare,but the specific link to that specific memory of Ellen

> drowning

> > > > didn't come up.On the ride home I insisted that we drive past the

> creek

> > > > because my grandmother was going a different way and she got very

> angry with

> > > > me again and disgusted again that I STILL wanted to " watch " .I was in

> tears

> > > > again and kept saying, " You don't understand,I HAVE to see,you don't

> > > > understand,I HAVE to see... "

> > > >

> > > > She yelled at me that no,I certainly did not have to see that and as

> > > > punishment for my outrageous tantrum she wasn't going to have me over

> to her

> > > > house the next Sunday.

> > > >

> > > > When we got home,she told my parents what I had done and said to

> > > > them, " There's somthing wrong with her,I've never seen her like

> this,it's

> > > > very disturbing that she'd be so fascinated with somebody

> drowning,there's

> > > > something wrong with her... "

> > > >

> > > > Yeah,well,they both knew that lol.Of course there was something wrong

> with

> > > > me,there wans't anything wrong with *them*!

> > > >

> > > > None of them remembered that my best friend had drowned in that creek

> and

> > > > that might have something to do with my extreme reaction because I

> doubt any

> > > > of them even remembered,my experiences were of zero importance.

> > > >

> > > > In my early twenties when I was allowing myself to remember the

> things that

> > > > had happened to me that whole thing with Ellen seemed like it must be

> some

> > > > weird thing I had made up.Did I really have a friend who had drowned?

> > > >

> > > > I went to the library and looked it up on microfiche,half expecting

> to find

> > > > nothing although I swore I remembered nada shoving a newspaper in my

> > > > face.And there it was: several newspaper articles from when she was

> missing

> > > > until she was found,exactly as I remembered it,even down to the time

> of year

> > > > and what the weather had been like.And the photos of her: she even

> looked

> > > > the way I was remembering my friend.I sat there and cried,for the

> first

> > > > time,finally able to grieve.

> > > >

> > > > For years I completely repressed all memories of Ellen and of that

> psycho

> > > > girl,as if none of it had ever happened.But it had,all of it.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Yes yes yes Annie, spot on. My T always says I have complex PTSD but it's

not in the DSM, and doesn't look like it will be in the new edition either.

It's unfortunate. So my Dx just says " PTSD & Depression " . But I think

there is an important distinction between complex PTSD & single-trauma PTSD.

Mia

On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 12:16 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

>

>

> According to the site " bully online " there is a difference between being

> mentally ill and receiving psychological injury.

>

> Psychological injury such as post-traumatic stress disorder is something a

> mentally healthy person can acquire from a single traumatic incident (such

> as being assaulted and raped) or a continuously stressful environment, such

> as being frequently bullied at school, remaining in an abusive marriage, or

> being a soldier in combat.

>

> Being raised by abusive or negligent personality-disordered parents

> (long-term abuse, ongoing trauma) is even more likely to result in long-term

> psychological injury for their children.

>

> There is a movement in the psychiatric community to add *complex* ptsd as a

> sub-category of a ptsd diagnosis, to differentiate the results of short-term

> or one-time trauma from the results of long-term or chronic trauma.

>

> Here's a link to the anti-bullying UK site " bully online " and their article

> about bullying in the family:

>

> http://www.bullyonline.org/related/family.htm

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I agree with everything Ann said,that was very well put.

> > > >

> > > > I know for sure that it's possible to suppress memory.My case is too

> > > > complicated to go into detail without writing a book but it sounds

> like

> > > > you've got a really great therapist who knows what she's doing.I know

> > > > there's that whole controversy about " false memories " aka " repressed

> > > > memories " and while I have no doubt that unfortunately there are

> unethical

> > > > therapists out there,it makes me angry to hear about " repressed

> memory "

> > > > being called non existent as if there is no such thing.

> > > >

> > > > One thing that happened to me was that the lack of mirroring from

> nada and

> > > > fada was so total and so severe that I often repressed painful

> events--I

> > > > simply had nowhere to put them.

> > > >

> > > > One hopefully brief example of how that worked is with my best friend

> who

> > > > drowned when we were five.She actually drowned in highly suspicious

> > > > circumstances,in the company of an older girl who was a psycho,but it

> was

> > > > classified as a tragic accident.

> > > >

> > > > The only " discussion " nada ever had with me about it was to shove a

> > > > newspaper in my face after Ellen's body had been found in the local

> creek

> > > > and scream at me, " There! You see! She's dead! " because I was

> continuing to

> > > > say that it all had to be a mistake: I was in denial.

> > > >

> > > > I had no way of processing my grief or even of thinking about what

> had

> > > > happened since my feelings about it didn't matter to anyone,AT ALL.

> > > >

> > > > One day when I was eight I was with my grandmother in her car driving

> to

> > > > her house on a Sunday afternoon and we drove over the bridge that

> went over

> > > > the creek.There were police cars/fire trucks on the side of the road

> and

> > > > gawkers standing around.Out in the creek there were rescue personnel

> in a

> > > > boat using grappling hooks.

> > > >

> > > > Automatically,I freaked.I had no conscious memory whatsoever of what

> had

> > > > happened to Ellen--I wasn't even thinking about her.I just had this

> > > > automatic reaction that I didn't connect to Ellen at all,and didn't

> until I

> > > > thought about this later as an adult.

> > > >

> > > > I demanded that my grandmother stop the car so I could get out and

> > > > watch.She refused and told me I didn't want to see that,it was clear

> someone

> > > > had possibly drowned.I started screaming that I KNEW someone had

> drowned and

> > > > that was why I wanted to watch,I wanted to see if they found the

> body,I

> > > > wanted to see.

> > > >

> > > > She got very angry with me for being so horrible and so creepy,to

> want to

> > > > actually watch a body being retrieved from the creek.She was very

> disgusted

> > > > with me.

> > > >

> > > > I was in tears.I felt like something horrible was going to happen if

> I

> > > > didn't find out for sure whether or not somebody had drowned.I felt

> like I

> > > > was going crazy and I felt like I just couldn't bear this absolute

> horror I

> > > > felt.Again,these were raw feelings and I made no connection at all to

> Ellen.

> > > >

> > > > I was extremely upset all day.I felt like I was having a waking

> > > > nightmare,but the specific link to that specific memory of Ellen

> drowning

> > > > didn't come up.On the ride home I insisted that we drive past the

> creek

> > > > because my grandmother was going a different way and she got very

> angry with

> > > > me again and disgusted again that I STILL wanted to " watch " .I was in

> tears

> > > > again and kept saying, " You don't understand,I HAVE to see,you don't

> > > > understand,I HAVE to see... "

> > > >

> > > > She yelled at me that no,I certainly did not have to see that and as

> > > > punishment for my outrageous tantrum she wasn't going to have me over

> to her

> > > > house the next Sunday.

> > > >

> > > > When we got home,she told my parents what I had done and said to

> > > > them, " There's somthing wrong with her,I've never seen her like

> this,it's

> > > > very disturbing that she'd be so fascinated with somebody

> drowning,there's

> > > > something wrong with her... "

> > > >

> > > > Yeah,well,they both knew that lol.Of course there was something wrong

> with

> > > > me,there wans't anything wrong with *them*!

> > > >

> > > > None of them remembered that my best friend had drowned in that creek

> and

> > > > that might have something to do with my extreme reaction because I

> doubt any

> > > > of them even remembered,my experiences were of zero importance.

> > > >

> > > > In my early twenties when I was allowing myself to remember the

> things that

> > > > had happened to me that whole thing with Ellen seemed like it must be

> some

> > > > weird thing I had made up.Did I really have a friend who had drowned?

> > > >

> > > > I went to the library and looked it up on microfiche,half expecting

> to find

> > > > nothing although I swore I remembered nada shoving a newspaper in my

> > > > face.And there it was: several newspaper articles from when she was

> missing

> > > > until she was found,exactly as I remembered it,even down to the time

> of year

> > > > and what the weather had been like.And the photos of her: she even

> looked

> > > > the way I was remembering my friend.I sat there and cried,for the

> first

> > > > time,finally able to grieve.

> > > >

> > > > For years I completely repressed all memories of Ellen and of that

> psycho

> > > > girl,as if none of it had ever happened.But it had,all of it.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >