Guest guest Posted December 8, 2010 Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 My mother was originally diagnosed with paranoid schitzophrenia, but the BPD fits her better. She can operate within society as long as it suits her, but will slip into delusions when things don't go her way. I actually had a hard time reading that article. > > I just had to share this comentary on personality disorders in this article. > . . . this is a very famous trial in my neck of the woods and the issues > around the insanity defense have my full attention. The weird thing is I > have met this man, he was a pan handler in my town, and I totally thought he > was nuts. But maybe not the kind of nuts that gets you out of prison. I > don't know, I just think it is interesting. > > http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50825206-76/gardner-mitchell-religious-mental.\ html.csp > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2010 Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 Yes, with borderline pd its stress that triggers the " Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation, delusions or severe dissociative symptoms. " (criteria 9) Which to me is a " loss of contact with reality " even if they don't come right out and use the term " psychotic " . I think that psychiatrists don't like to use the term " psychosis " unless hallucinations are also involved. The scary part is that with some bpds, it (apparently) doesn't take a great deal of stress to push them into a break with reality. I am convinced that the ordinary daily stresses of raising small children sent my nada over the edge frequently, because when she'd explode into one of her red-faced, screaming rage-tantrums her eyes were dilated black and it was as though my mother who knew me and loved me wasn't *there* any more. And afterward, sometimes she'd act like nothing at all had just happened. She'd be all cheerful and perky while I or Sister would be on the floor, shaking and trying not to cry. (Other times nada would wail and blubber for forgiveness afterward; could go either way.) But I'd be willing to bet that if it had been possible for a psychiatrist to interview my nada just before or during one of her rage-tantrums, he'd get an earful of delusional beliefs based on her cognitive distortion and negative interpretation of reality. And who knows, maybe some hallucinations as well. I've read enough posts here and at other Groups that seem to indicate that some nadas believe their infant or toddler is capable of adult-level thoughts and has " mouthed off " to nada out of malicious intent using adult-level language skills. Which I'm also willing to bet is nada's own thoughts being projected onto her infant. I still say that " projection " , or believing that one's own feelings, traits or thoughts are coming from another person (or animal, or object) is absolutely psychotic or *ought to be* considered so. I don't understand why " projecting " *isn't* considered a form of hallucination by psychiatrists. -Annie > > > > I just had to share this comentary on personality disorders in this article. > > . . . this is a very famous trial in my neck of the woods and the issues > > around the insanity defense have my full attention. The weird thing is I > > have met this man, he was a pan handler in my town, and I totally thought he > > was nuts. But maybe not the kind of nuts that gets you out of prison. I > > don't know, I just think it is interesting. > > > > http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50825206-76/gardner-mitchell-religious-mental.\ html.csp > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2010 Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 Girlscout,thanks for sharing the link to articles about this story at the SL Tribune.I read a couple of the articles on the website and it's really interesting to me that a distinction is being made in this court case between " severe mental illness " aka florid psychosis and personality disorder--one of the articles even states that PD " isn't a mental illness " for the purposes of a " not guilty by reason of insanity " verdict. I do think this character is crazy--crazy like a freaking fox.One of the witnesses for the prosecution,I think he was the director of the mental hospital was sent to,has accurately diagnosed him in my opinion as an antisocial PD and an NPD and a pedophile.The clinician who diagnosed him as a paranoid schizophrenic got it dead wrong...and then I was reading in one of the articles that the psychiatrist who treated AFTER his arrest for kidnapping and repeatedly raping Smart has now become 's " advocate " and has testified on his behalf.HUH???? Are the lunatics running the asylum in that place???? switches his " delusional behavior " on and off to suit his own manipulative purposes.He displays the hugely grandiose sense of entitlement that all psychopaths have and in fact everything he does and has done is totally indicative of psychopathy.It's a shame that just that alone isn't enough to get his ass fried in the state of Utah after what he did (his step daughter has also said that he sexually abused her for four years from the time she was seven--who knows how many people he has victimized)...and no matter what the verdict is in the Smart case,the punishment here isn't going to fit the crime.He's scum and in my opinion his continued existence is a terrible waste of taxpayer money,unless he were to be used as a research subject,like testing meds on him,since I doubt he'd cooperate with any kind of " psychopath psychological study " .I guess that sounds harsh but I have no sympathy whatsoever for these predators,all they do is wreck other peoples' lives and it seems to me that the only way they could ever redeem their worthless existences is to be used in research to possibly find a cure or a surgical or chemical solution for their " condition " .He's never going to understand what he did to that young girl who had a promising future before her and who must now live with what he did to her for the rest of her life.He does not care and he never will,no matter how he is " punished " .Indeed all he seems to " care " about is having his fun with the court and getting his way,such as pretending to pray and sing just long enough to disrupt the proceedings so he gets to be removed from the courtroom and placed in his own special room alone where he gets to enjoy watching a live video feed--I wish that instead he could have a muzzle and a straightjacket slapped on him and be forced to sit there in court with everyone else.But that would be denying him his " rights " .This bastard knows right from wrong very well--he just doesn't care.He was canny enough to parade out in public dressed in a veil and to then claim that they were " Muslims " .He's scum. " Hiding in plain sight " like that is a total thrill for a psychopath,it's one of the games they play. I found this article about the psychopath " personas " he adopts to fool people really interesting: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50827966-76/mitchell-gardner-smart-persona.htm\ l.csp He uses the " Religious Chameleon " persona to elude detection and according to this article tried to use it in order to kidnap yet another young girl. I just don't understand how psychopathic PD,the kind he displays,isn't *severe* mental illness.Not guilty by reason of insanity would be a grave miscarriage of justice in this case--he is in fact flagrantly guilty of premeditated malice because he *is* insane. And his panhandling and deliberately shiftless existence is additional evidence of his psychopathy--these types often believe that they are far too superior to have to actually *work* for a living like anyone else.They are *not* living on the streets because they're too nuts to cope--they are doing that because they arrogantly assume that the rest of the world owes them baksheesh--for them,it's not begging,it's their " due " .Which ties in with how extrapolated being entitled to kidnap a pretty young girl for his " wife " from a casual handyman's job.In his mind, Smart's mother wasn't doing him a kind favor by hiring him to do some odd jobs,she was presenting him with an opportunity to take something (her child) that he wanted.He was a predator,not a penitent down on his luck. Smart,at all of fourteen years old,said that she begged him not to rape her but he did it anyway.And continued to on a nearly daily basis until he was caught.She has to deal now with the entire world knowing her shame while the piece of shit who raped her sings in the courtroom. > > I just had to share this comentary on personality disorders in this article. > . . . this is a very famous trial in my neck of the woods and the issues > around the insanity defense have my full attention. The weird thing is I > have met this man, he was a pan handler in my town, and I totally thought he > was nuts. But maybe not the kind of nuts that gets you out of prison. I > don't know, I just think it is interesting. > > http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50825206-76/gardner-mitchell-religious-mental.\ html.csp > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2010 Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 Girlscout,thanks for sharing the link to articles about this story at the SL Tribune.I read a couple of the articles on the website and it's really interesting to me that a distinction is being made in this court case between " severe mental illness " aka florid psychosis and personality disorder--one of the articles even states that PD " isn't a mental illness " for the purposes of a " not guilty by reason of insanity " verdict. I do think this character is crazy--crazy like a freaking fox.One of the witnesses for the prosecution,I think he was the director of the mental hospital was sent to,has accurately diagnosed him in my opinion as an antisocial PD and an NPD and a pedophile.The clinician who diagnosed him as a paranoid schizophrenic got it dead wrong...and then I was reading in one of the articles that the psychiatrist who treated AFTER his arrest for kidnapping and repeatedly raping Smart has now become 's " advocate " and has testified on his behalf.HUH???? Are the lunatics running the asylum in that place???? switches his " delusional behavior " on and off to suit his own manipulative purposes.He displays the hugely grandiose sense of entitlement that all psychopaths have and in fact everything he does and has done is totally indicative of psychopathy.It's a shame that just that alone isn't enough to get his ass fried in the state of Utah after what he did (his step daughter has also said that he sexually abused her for four years from the time she was seven--who knows how many people he has victimized)...and no matter what the verdict is in the Smart case,the punishment here isn't going to fit the crime.He's scum and in my opinion his continued existence is a terrible waste of taxpayer money,unless he were to be used as a research subject,like testing meds on him,since I doubt he'd cooperate with any kind of " psychopath psychological study " .I guess that sounds harsh but I have no sympathy whatsoever for these predators,all they do is wreck other peoples' lives and it seems to me that the only way they could ever redeem their worthless existences is to be used in research to possibly find a cure or a surgical or chemical solution for their " condition " .He's never going to understand what he did to that young girl who had a promising future before her and who must now live with what he did to her for the rest of her life.He does not care and he never will,no matter how he is " punished " .Indeed all he seems to " care " about is having his fun with the court and getting his way,such as pretending to pray and sing just long enough to disrupt the proceedings so he gets to be removed from the courtroom and placed in his own special room alone where he gets to enjoy watching a live video feed--I wish that instead he could have a muzzle and a straightjacket slapped on him and be forced to sit there in court with everyone else.But that would be denying him his " rights " .This bastard knows right from wrong very well--he just doesn't care.He was canny enough to parade out in public dressed in a veil and to then claim that they were " Muslims " .He's scum. " Hiding in plain sight " like that is a total thrill for a psychopath,it's one of the games they play. I found this article about the psychopath " personas " he adopts to fool people really interesting: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50827966-76/mitchell-gardner-smart-persona.htm\ l.csp He uses the " Religious Chameleon " persona to elude detection and according to this article tried to use it in order to kidnap yet another young girl. I just don't understand how psychopathic PD,the kind he displays,isn't *severe* mental illness.Not guilty by reason of insanity would be a grave miscarriage of justice in this case--he is in fact flagrantly guilty of premeditated malice because he *is* insane. And his panhandling and deliberately shiftless existence is additional evidence of his psychopathy--these types often believe that they are far too superior to have to actually *work* for a living like anyone else.They are *not* living on the streets because they're too nuts to cope--they are doing that because they arrogantly assume that the rest of the world owes them baksheesh--for them,it's not begging,it's their " due " .Which ties in with how extrapolated being entitled to kidnap a pretty young girl for his " wife " from a casual handyman's job.In his mind, Smart's mother wasn't doing him a kind favor by hiring him to do some odd jobs,she was presenting him with an opportunity to take something (her child) that he wanted.He was a predator,not a penitent down on his luck. Smart,at all of fourteen years old,said that she begged him not to rape her but he did it anyway.And continued to on a nearly daily basis until he was caught.She has to deal now with the entire world knowing her shame while the piece of shit who raped her sings in the courtroom. > > I just had to share this comentary on personality disorders in this article. > . . . this is a very famous trial in my neck of the woods and the issues > around the insanity defense have my full attention. The weird thing is I > have met this man, he was a pan handler in my town, and I totally thought he > was nuts. But maybe not the kind of nuts that gets you out of prison. I > don't know, I just think it is interesting. > > http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50825206-76/gardner-mitchell-religious-mental.\ html.csp > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2010 Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 Thank you . Honestly I'm touched that so many of you read it. Yeah, this is a very very personal story for me and a lot of SLC folks. It hits very cl,ose to home and a lot of us know at least one or two of the people involved. Unfortunately is the one I knew the best. Ugh. . . On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 5:28 PM, christine.depizan < christine.depizan@...> wrote: > > > Girlscout,thanks for sharing the link to articles about this story at the > SL Tribune.I read a couple of the articles on the website and it's really > interesting to me that a distinction is being made in this court case > between " severe mental illness " aka florid psychosis and personality > disorder--one of the articles even states that PD " isn't a mental illness " > for the purposes of a " not guilty by reason of insanity " verdict. > > I do think this character is crazy--crazy like a freaking fox.One > of the witnesses for the prosecution,I think he was the director of the > mental hospital was sent to,has accurately diagnosed him in my > opinion as an antisocial PD and an NPD and a pedophile.The clinician who > diagnosed him as a paranoid schizophrenic got it dead wrong...and then I was > reading in one of the articles that the psychiatrist who treated > AFTER his arrest for kidnapping and repeatedly raping Smart has > now become 's " advocate " and has testified on his behalf.HUH???? Are > the lunatics running the asylum in that place???? > > switches his " delusional behavior " on and off to suit his own > manipulative purposes.He displays the hugely grandiose sense of entitlement > that all psychopaths have and in fact everything he does and has done is > totally indicative of psychopathy.It's a shame that just that alone isn't > enough to get his ass fried in the state of Utah after what he did (his step > daughter has also said that he sexually abused her for four years from the > time she was seven--who knows how many people he has victimized)...and no > matter what the verdict is in the Smart case,the punishment here > isn't going to fit the crime.He's scum and in my opinion his continued > existence is a terrible waste of taxpayer money,unless he were to be used as > a research subject,like testing meds on him,since I doubt he'd cooperate > with any kind of " psychopath psychological study " .I guess that sounds harsh > but I have no sympathy whatsoever for these predators,all they do is wreck > other peoples' lives and it seems to me that the only way they could ever > redeem their worthless existences is to be used in research to possibly find > a cure or a surgical or chemical solution for their " condition " .He's never > going to understand what he did to that young girl who had a promising > future before her and who must now live with what he did to her for the rest > of her life.He does not care and he never will,no matter how he is > " punished " .Indeed all he seems to " care " about is having his fun with the > court and getting his way,such as pretending to pray and sing just long > enough to disrupt the proceedings so he gets to be removed from the > courtroom and placed in his own special room alone where he gets to enjoy > watching a live video feed--I wish that instead he could have a muzzle and a > straightjacket slapped on him and be forced to sit there in court with > everyone else.But that would be denying him his " rights " .This bastard knows > right from wrong very well--he just doesn't care.He was canny enough to > parade out in public dressed in a veil and to then claim that they > were " Muslims " .He's scum. " Hiding in plain sight " like that is a total thrill > for a psychopath,it's one of the games they play. > > I found this article about the psychopath " personas " he adopts to fool > people really interesting: > > > http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50827966-76/mitchell-gardner-smart-persona.htm\ l.csp > > He uses the " Religious Chameleon " persona to elude detection and according > to this article tried to use it in order to kidnap yet another young girl. > > I just don't understand how psychopathic PD,the kind he displays,isn't > *severe* mental illness.Not guilty by reason of insanity would be a grave > miscarriage of justice in this case--he is in fact flagrantly guilty of > premeditated malice because he *is* insane. > > And his panhandling and deliberately shiftless existence is additional > evidence of his psychopathy--these types often believe that they are far too > superior to have to actually *work* for a living like anyone else.They are > *not* living on the streets because they're too nuts to cope--they are doing > that because they arrogantly assume that the rest of the world owes them > baksheesh--for them,it's not begging,it's their " due " .Which ties in with how > extrapolated being entitled to kidnap a pretty young girl for his > " wife " from a casual handyman's job.In his mind, Smart's mother > wasn't doing him a kind favor by hiring him to do some odd jobs,she was > presenting him with an opportunity to take something (her child) that he > wanted.He was a predator,not a penitent down on his luck. > > Smart,at all of fourteen years old,said that she begged him not > to rape her but he did it anyway.And continued to on a nearly daily basis > until he was caught.She has to deal now with the entire world knowing her > shame while the piece of shit who raped her sings in the courtroom. > > > > > > > > > I just had to share this comentary on personality disorders in this > article. > > . . . this is a very famous trial in my neck of the woods and the issues > > around the insanity defense have my full attention. The weird thing is I > > have met this man, he was a pan handler in my town, and I totally thought > he > > was nuts. But maybe not the kind of nuts that gets you out of prison. I > > don't know, I just think it is interesting. > > > > > http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50825206-76/gardner-mitchell-religious-mental.\ html.csp > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2010 Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 It is maddening, isn't it, that psychopaths like this guy are carefully, carefully accorded their legal rights, even though he casually stripped his victim of her human rights. It is confusing that there is a distinction between " legally insane " and " legally sane " for those with genuine mental illnesses. Personality disorder is indeed a genuine and sometimes even severe mental illness. But according to the DSM-IV those with personality disorder remain connected with reality. So for legal purposes someone with personality disorder is considered " legally sane " : able to tell the difference between right and wrong, responsible for their actions, and therefor considered able to undergo a court trial and be found either guilty or not guilty. Those who are diagnosed as psychotic (not connected with reality) or even those who are " temporarily " psychotic are not considered to have the capacity to be legally responsible for their acts. Keep in mind, this is another reason why the DSM-IV and how it classifies and categorizes mental illness is so important. Its not just important for the individual patients, their diagnosis and their treatment, it has legal ramifications. Its the same gray, fuzzy area that keeps us KOs baffled: can my pd parent " help it " when s/he abuses me? Is he or she responsible for her own actions and behaviors? Is the mental illness stripping her of conscious volition of her will, or not? At this moment in time, both the psychiatric community and the legal system consider that our nadas *are* responsible for every heinous act of abuse they perpetrate. Who knows if that will remain the case in the future, if scientific methods are found that can determine whether or not the mind or the " will " actually is in control of the malfunctioning, emotionally-dysregulated pd brain, or not? -Annie > > Girlscout,thanks for sharing the link to articles about this story at the SL Tribune.I read a couple of the articles on the website and it's really interesting to me that a distinction is being made in this court case between " severe mental illness " aka florid psychosis and personality disorder--one of the articles even states that PD " isn't a mental illness " for the purposes of a " not guilty by reason of insanity " verdict. > > I do think this character is crazy--crazy like a freaking fox.One of the witnesses for the prosecution,I think he was the director of the mental hospital was sent to,has accurately diagnosed him in my opinion as an antisocial PD and an NPD and a pedophile.The clinician who diagnosed him as a paranoid schizophrenic got it dead wrong...and then I was reading in one of the articles that the psychiatrist who treated AFTER his arrest for kidnapping and repeatedly raping Smart has now become 's " advocate " and has testified on his behalf.HUH???? Are the lunatics running the asylum in that place???? > > switches his " delusional behavior " on and off to suit his own manipulative purposes.He displays the hugely grandiose sense of entitlement that all psychopaths have and in fact everything he does and has done is totally indicative of psychopathy.It's a shame that just that alone isn't enough to get his ass fried in the state of Utah after what he did (his step daughter has also said that he sexually abused her for four years from the time she was seven--who knows how many people he has victimized)...and no matter what the verdict is in the Smart case,the punishment here isn't going to fit the crime.He's scum and in my opinion his continued existence is a terrible waste of taxpayer money,unless he were to be used as a research subject,like testing meds on him,since I doubt he'd cooperate with any kind of " psychopath psychological study " .I guess that sounds harsh but I have no sympathy whatsoever for these predators,all they do is wreck other peoples' lives and it seems to me that the only way they could ever redeem their worthless existences is to be used in research to possibly find a cure or a surgical or chemical solution for their " condition " .He's never going to understand what he did to that young girl who had a promising future before her and who must now live with what he did to her for the rest of her life.He does not care and he never will,no matter how he is " punished " .Indeed all he seems to " care " about is having his fun with the court and getting his way,such as pretending to pray and sing just long enough to disrupt the proceedings so he gets to be removed from the courtroom and placed in his own special room alone where he gets to enjoy watching a live video feed--I wish that instead he could have a muzzle and a straightjacket slapped on him and be forced to sit there in court with everyone else.But that would be denying him his " rights " .This bastard knows right from wrong very well--he just doesn't care.He was canny enough to parade out in public dressed in a veil and to then claim that they were " Muslims " .He's scum. " Hiding in plain sight " like that is a total thrill for a psychopath,it's one of the games they play. > > I found this article about the psychopath " personas " he adopts to fool people really interesting: > > http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50827966-76/mitchell-gardner-smart-persona.htm\ l.csp > > He uses the " Religious Chameleon " persona to elude detection and according to this article tried to use it in order to kidnap yet another young girl. > > I just don't understand how psychopathic PD,the kind he displays,isn't *severe* mental illness.Not guilty by reason of insanity would be a grave miscarriage of justice in this case--he is in fact flagrantly guilty of premeditated malice because he *is* insane. > > And his panhandling and deliberately shiftless existence is additional evidence of his psychopathy--these types often believe that they are far too superior to have to actually *work* for a living like anyone else.They are *not* living on the streets because they're too nuts to cope--they are doing that because they arrogantly assume that the rest of the world owes them baksheesh--for them,it's not begging,it's their " due " .Which ties in with how extrapolated being entitled to kidnap a pretty young girl for his " wife " from a casual handyman's job.In his mind, Smart's mother wasn't doing him a kind favor by hiring him to do some odd jobs,she was presenting him with an opportunity to take something (her child) that he wanted.He was a predator,not a penitent down on his luck. > > Smart,at all of fourteen years old,said that she begged him not to rape her but he did it anyway.And continued to on a nearly daily basis until he was caught.She has to deal now with the entire world knowing her shame while the piece of shit who raped her sings in the courtroom. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2010 Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 It is maddening, isn't it, that psychopaths like this guy are carefully, carefully accorded their legal rights, even though he casually stripped his victim of her human rights. It is confusing that there is a distinction between " legally insane " and " legally sane " for those with genuine mental illnesses. Personality disorder is indeed a genuine and sometimes even severe mental illness. But according to the DSM-IV those with personality disorder remain connected with reality. So for legal purposes someone with personality disorder is considered " legally sane " : able to tell the difference between right and wrong, responsible for their actions, and therefor considered able to undergo a court trial and be found either guilty or not guilty. Those who are diagnosed as psychotic (not connected with reality) or even those who are " temporarily " psychotic are not considered to have the capacity to be legally responsible for their acts. Keep in mind, this is another reason why the DSM-IV and how it classifies and categorizes mental illness is so important. Its not just important for the individual patients, their diagnosis and their treatment, it has legal ramifications. Its the same gray, fuzzy area that keeps us KOs baffled: can my pd parent " help it " when s/he abuses me? Is he or she responsible for her own actions and behaviors? Is the mental illness stripping her of conscious volition of her will, or not? At this moment in time, both the psychiatric community and the legal system consider that our nadas *are* responsible for every heinous act of abuse they perpetrate. Who knows if that will remain the case in the future, if scientific methods are found that can determine whether or not the mind or the " will " actually is in control of the malfunctioning, emotionally-dysregulated pd brain, or not? -Annie > > Girlscout,thanks for sharing the link to articles about this story at the SL Tribune.I read a couple of the articles on the website and it's really interesting to me that a distinction is being made in this court case between " severe mental illness " aka florid psychosis and personality disorder--one of the articles even states that PD " isn't a mental illness " for the purposes of a " not guilty by reason of insanity " verdict. > > I do think this character is crazy--crazy like a freaking fox.One of the witnesses for the prosecution,I think he was the director of the mental hospital was sent to,has accurately diagnosed him in my opinion as an antisocial PD and an NPD and a pedophile.The clinician who diagnosed him as a paranoid schizophrenic got it dead wrong...and then I was reading in one of the articles that the psychiatrist who treated AFTER his arrest for kidnapping and repeatedly raping Smart has now become 's " advocate " and has testified on his behalf.HUH???? Are the lunatics running the asylum in that place???? > > switches his " delusional behavior " on and off to suit his own manipulative purposes.He displays the hugely grandiose sense of entitlement that all psychopaths have and in fact everything he does and has done is totally indicative of psychopathy.It's a shame that just that alone isn't enough to get his ass fried in the state of Utah after what he did (his step daughter has also said that he sexually abused her for four years from the time she was seven--who knows how many people he has victimized)...and no matter what the verdict is in the Smart case,the punishment here isn't going to fit the crime.He's scum and in my opinion his continued existence is a terrible waste of taxpayer money,unless he were to be used as a research subject,like testing meds on him,since I doubt he'd cooperate with any kind of " psychopath psychological study " .I guess that sounds harsh but I have no sympathy whatsoever for these predators,all they do is wreck other peoples' lives and it seems to me that the only way they could ever redeem their worthless existences is to be used in research to possibly find a cure or a surgical or chemical solution for their " condition " .He's never going to understand what he did to that young girl who had a promising future before her and who must now live with what he did to her for the rest of her life.He does not care and he never will,no matter how he is " punished " .Indeed all he seems to " care " about is having his fun with the court and getting his way,such as pretending to pray and sing just long enough to disrupt the proceedings so he gets to be removed from the courtroom and placed in his own special room alone where he gets to enjoy watching a live video feed--I wish that instead he could have a muzzle and a straightjacket slapped on him and be forced to sit there in court with everyone else.But that would be denying him his " rights " .This bastard knows right from wrong very well--he just doesn't care.He was canny enough to parade out in public dressed in a veil and to then claim that they were " Muslims " .He's scum. " Hiding in plain sight " like that is a total thrill for a psychopath,it's one of the games they play. > > I found this article about the psychopath " personas " he adopts to fool people really interesting: > > http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50827966-76/mitchell-gardner-smart-persona.htm\ l.csp > > He uses the " Religious Chameleon " persona to elude detection and according to this article tried to use it in order to kidnap yet another young girl. > > I just don't understand how psychopathic PD,the kind he displays,isn't *severe* mental illness.Not guilty by reason of insanity would be a grave miscarriage of justice in this case--he is in fact flagrantly guilty of premeditated malice because he *is* insane. > > And his panhandling and deliberately shiftless existence is additional evidence of his psychopathy--these types often believe that they are far too superior to have to actually *work* for a living like anyone else.They are *not* living on the streets because they're too nuts to cope--they are doing that because they arrogantly assume that the rest of the world owes them baksheesh--for them,it's not begging,it's their " due " .Which ties in with how extrapolated being entitled to kidnap a pretty young girl for his " wife " from a casual handyman's job.In his mind, Smart's mother wasn't doing him a kind favor by hiring him to do some odd jobs,she was presenting him with an opportunity to take something (her child) that he wanted.He was a predator,not a penitent down on his luck. > > Smart,at all of fourteen years old,said that she begged him not to rape her but he did it anyway.And continued to on a nearly daily basis until he was caught.She has to deal now with the entire world knowing her shame while the piece of shit who raped her sings in the courtroom. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2010 Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 It is maddening, isn't it, that psychopaths like this guy are carefully, carefully accorded their legal rights, even though he casually stripped his victim of her human rights. It is confusing that there is a distinction between " legally insane " and " legally sane " for those with genuine mental illnesses. Personality disorder is indeed a genuine and sometimes even severe mental illness. But according to the DSM-IV those with personality disorder remain connected with reality. So for legal purposes someone with personality disorder is considered " legally sane " : able to tell the difference between right and wrong, responsible for their actions, and therefor considered able to undergo a court trial and be found either guilty or not guilty. Those who are diagnosed as psychotic (not connected with reality) or even those who are " temporarily " psychotic are not considered to have the capacity to be legally responsible for their acts. Keep in mind, this is another reason why the DSM-IV and how it classifies and categorizes mental illness is so important. Its not just important for the individual patients, their diagnosis and their treatment, it has legal ramifications. Its the same gray, fuzzy area that keeps us KOs baffled: can my pd parent " help it " when s/he abuses me? Is he or she responsible for her own actions and behaviors? Is the mental illness stripping her of conscious volition of her will, or not? At this moment in time, both the psychiatric community and the legal system consider that our nadas *are* responsible for every heinous act of abuse they perpetrate. Who knows if that will remain the case in the future, if scientific methods are found that can determine whether or not the mind or the " will " actually is in control of the malfunctioning, emotionally-dysregulated pd brain, or not? -Annie > > Girlscout,thanks for sharing the link to articles about this story at the SL Tribune.I read a couple of the articles on the website and it's really interesting to me that a distinction is being made in this court case between " severe mental illness " aka florid psychosis and personality disorder--one of the articles even states that PD " isn't a mental illness " for the purposes of a " not guilty by reason of insanity " verdict. > > I do think this character is crazy--crazy like a freaking fox.One of the witnesses for the prosecution,I think he was the director of the mental hospital was sent to,has accurately diagnosed him in my opinion as an antisocial PD and an NPD and a pedophile.The clinician who diagnosed him as a paranoid schizophrenic got it dead wrong...and then I was reading in one of the articles that the psychiatrist who treated AFTER his arrest for kidnapping and repeatedly raping Smart has now become 's " advocate " and has testified on his behalf.HUH???? Are the lunatics running the asylum in that place???? > > switches his " delusional behavior " on and off to suit his own manipulative purposes.He displays the hugely grandiose sense of entitlement that all psychopaths have and in fact everything he does and has done is totally indicative of psychopathy.It's a shame that just that alone isn't enough to get his ass fried in the state of Utah after what he did (his step daughter has also said that he sexually abused her for four years from the time she was seven--who knows how many people he has victimized)...and no matter what the verdict is in the Smart case,the punishment here isn't going to fit the crime.He's scum and in my opinion his continued existence is a terrible waste of taxpayer money,unless he were to be used as a research subject,like testing meds on him,since I doubt he'd cooperate with any kind of " psychopath psychological study " .I guess that sounds harsh but I have no sympathy whatsoever for these predators,all they do is wreck other peoples' lives and it seems to me that the only way they could ever redeem their worthless existences is to be used in research to possibly find a cure or a surgical or chemical solution for their " condition " .He's never going to understand what he did to that young girl who had a promising future before her and who must now live with what he did to her for the rest of her life.He does not care and he never will,no matter how he is " punished " .Indeed all he seems to " care " about is having his fun with the court and getting his way,such as pretending to pray and sing just long enough to disrupt the proceedings so he gets to be removed from the courtroom and placed in his own special room alone where he gets to enjoy watching a live video feed--I wish that instead he could have a muzzle and a straightjacket slapped on him and be forced to sit there in court with everyone else.But that would be denying him his " rights " .This bastard knows right from wrong very well--he just doesn't care.He was canny enough to parade out in public dressed in a veil and to then claim that they were " Muslims " .He's scum. " Hiding in plain sight " like that is a total thrill for a psychopath,it's one of the games they play. > > I found this article about the psychopath " personas " he adopts to fool people really interesting: > > http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50827966-76/mitchell-gardner-smart-persona.htm\ l.csp > > He uses the " Religious Chameleon " persona to elude detection and according to this article tried to use it in order to kidnap yet another young girl. > > I just don't understand how psychopathic PD,the kind he displays,isn't *severe* mental illness.Not guilty by reason of insanity would be a grave miscarriage of justice in this case--he is in fact flagrantly guilty of premeditated malice because he *is* insane. > > And his panhandling and deliberately shiftless existence is additional evidence of his psychopathy--these types often believe that they are far too superior to have to actually *work* for a living like anyone else.They are *not* living on the streets because they're too nuts to cope--they are doing that because they arrogantly assume that the rest of the world owes them baksheesh--for them,it's not begging,it's their " due " .Which ties in with how extrapolated being entitled to kidnap a pretty young girl for his " wife " from a casual handyman's job.In his mind, Smart's mother wasn't doing him a kind favor by hiring him to do some odd jobs,she was presenting him with an opportunity to take something (her child) that he wanted.He was a predator,not a penitent down on his luck. > > Smart,at all of fourteen years old,said that she begged him not to rape her but he did it anyway.And continued to on a nearly daily basis until he was caught.She has to deal now with the entire world knowing her shame while the piece of shit who raped her sings in the courtroom. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 I like your idea,Annie.I suppose in this scenario,it would be the judges who impose the sentence? I wonder if that would help jurors to focus more on the hard cold facts of a serious criminal case,if they didn't have to worry about their guilty verdict leading to the death penalty? There was an absolutely atrocious home invasion/rape/murder case in Massachusets a couple of years ago and the jury struggled with the degree of guilty verdict they would render since it was a death penalty case. *Are* there any actual prisons just for the criminally insane in this country? I think you've come up with a great way to eliminate " not guilty by reason of insanity " verdicts! Often these individuals are clearly guilty of committing horrendous crimes and " not guilty by reason of insanity " becomes quibbling over the criminal's intent: " but did they really mean it? " Well,they certainly " meant " it as far as their victims are concerned,especially when such victims happen to be dead. > > I'm glad my post helped you. > > I think that asking a jury to figure out if the defendant is sane or insane is... insane! > > I think all a jury should have to figure out is: " Did this person *commit this act*, or not? " Is there enough believable evidence, proof, witnesses, etc., or not? Yes, this man killed this woman. No, this man did not steal this car. Period. > > To me, that should be a separate issue than " Is s/he insane or not? " > > If I were running things, I would institute a separate hearing before the judge to determine sanity or insanity. So the final verdict would be something like " Guilty (jury) and sane (separate hearing) " or " Guilty (jury) and insane (separate hearing) " , or simply " Not guilty. " If s/he is found innocent of committing crime " x " then his/her sanity or insanity is a moot point. > > The current possible finding of " not guilty due to insanity " wouldn't exist any more. > > So a person found guilty by jury trial of committing a crime, and later found insane by a separate hearing before a judge (in which various psychiatrists testify) would then be incarcerated in a prison specifically for the criminally insane, which would be more like a cross between a hospital and a prison. The felons would be behind bars but also under the care of a psychiatrist and carefully studied. Those found guilty but sane would go to regular prison and hopefully rehabilitated, or possibly executed. > > But, that's just a fantasy I fancy. The current way our legal system considers this issue doesn't make sense to me. > > -Annie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 Yes, in my fantasy version of the legal system, the judge would impose the penalty or the sentence, and there would be separate prisons for criminals deemed to be mentally ill and violent or dangerous. I think (if I understand what I've read correctly) that these days its a mixed bag RE what happens to the criminally insane: Regular prisons house the criminally insane as well as the regular population of felons, and state-run mental hospitals have both non-violent, non-criminal mentally-ill patients and criminally insane, violent patients in their population. Hopefully in both cases the dangerous, violent criminally insane population is kept separately from the other inmates for safety purposes, but I'd have to do further reading about it to be sure. I'm not quite sure if currently there are separate prison locations specifically for the criminally insane, but I don't think so. -Annie > > I like your idea,Annie.I suppose in this scenario,it would be the judges who impose the sentence? I wonder if that would help jurors to focus more on the hard cold facts of a serious criminal case,if they didn't have to worry about their guilty verdict leading to the death penalty? There was an absolutely atrocious home invasion/rape/murder case in Massachusets a couple of years ago and the jury struggled with the degree of guilty verdict they would render since it was a death penalty case. > > *Are* there any actual prisons just for the criminally insane in this country? > > I think you've come up with a great way to eliminate " not guilty by reason of insanity " verdicts! > > Often these individuals are clearly guilty of committing horrendous crimes and " not guilty by reason of insanity " becomes quibbling over the criminal's intent: " but did they really mean it? " Well,they certainly " meant " it as far as their victims are concerned,especially when such victims happen to be dead. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 Yes, in my fantasy version of the legal system, the judge would impose the penalty or the sentence, and there would be separate prisons for criminals deemed to be mentally ill and violent or dangerous. I think (if I understand what I've read correctly) that these days its a mixed bag RE what happens to the criminally insane: Regular prisons house the criminally insane as well as the regular population of felons, and state-run mental hospitals have both non-violent, non-criminal mentally-ill patients and criminally insane, violent patients in their population. Hopefully in both cases the dangerous, violent criminally insane population is kept separately from the other inmates for safety purposes, but I'd have to do further reading about it to be sure. I'm not quite sure if currently there are separate prison locations specifically for the criminally insane, but I don't think so. -Annie > > I like your idea,Annie.I suppose in this scenario,it would be the judges who impose the sentence? I wonder if that would help jurors to focus more on the hard cold facts of a serious criminal case,if they didn't have to worry about their guilty verdict leading to the death penalty? There was an absolutely atrocious home invasion/rape/murder case in Massachusets a couple of years ago and the jury struggled with the degree of guilty verdict they would render since it was a death penalty case. > > *Are* there any actual prisons just for the criminally insane in this country? > > I think you've come up with a great way to eliminate " not guilty by reason of insanity " verdicts! > > Often these individuals are clearly guilty of committing horrendous crimes and " not guilty by reason of insanity " becomes quibbling over the criminal's intent: " but did they really mean it? " Well,they certainly " meant " it as far as their victims are concerned,especially when such victims happen to be dead. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 If you are so insane that you can dismember a person or some other horrific crime, the issue is not guilt, it is safety. They should not be walking around. But they insist on doing the bullshit where someone is so insane they are not responsible for horrific acts, but then cured and responsible in a few years. Bullshit. In any rational system, our nada s would have been taken out of control of us unless they got treatment. > > > > I like your idea,Annie.I suppose in this scenario,it would be the judges who impose the sentence? I wonder if that would help jurors to focus more on the hard cold facts of a serious criminal case,if they didn't have to worry about their guilty verdict leading to the death penalty? There was an absolutely atrocious home invasion/rape/murder case in Massachusets a couple of years ago and the jury struggled with the degree of guilty verdict they would render since it was a death penalty case. > > > > *Are* there any actual prisons just for the criminally insane in this country? > > > > I think you've come up with a great way to eliminate " not guilty by reason of insanity " verdicts! > > > > Often these individuals are clearly guilty of committing horrendous crimes and " not guilty by reason of insanity " becomes quibbling over the criminal's intent: " but did they really mean it? " Well,they certainly " meant " it as far as their victims are concerned,especially when such victims happen to be dead. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 If you are so insane that you can dismember a person or some other horrific crime, the issue is not guilt, it is safety. They should not be walking around. But they insist on doing the bullshit where someone is so insane they are not responsible for horrific acts, but then cured and responsible in a few years. Bullshit. In any rational system, our nada s would have been taken out of control of us unless they got treatment. > > > > I like your idea,Annie.I suppose in this scenario,it would be the judges who impose the sentence? I wonder if that would help jurors to focus more on the hard cold facts of a serious criminal case,if they didn't have to worry about their guilty verdict leading to the death penalty? There was an absolutely atrocious home invasion/rape/murder case in Massachusets a couple of years ago and the jury struggled with the degree of guilty verdict they would render since it was a death penalty case. > > > > *Are* there any actual prisons just for the criminally insane in this country? > > > > I think you've come up with a great way to eliminate " not guilty by reason of insanity " verdicts! > > > > Often these individuals are clearly guilty of committing horrendous crimes and " not guilty by reason of insanity " becomes quibbling over the criminal's intent: " but did they really mean it? " Well,they certainly " meant " it as far as their victims are concerned,especially when such victims happen to be dead. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 I agree, the " Hannibal Lecters " and other similarly violent, psychotic, unstable, insane criminals need to be kept out of society and kept away from other, non-violent criminals. If there aren't currently special prison-hospitals for the criminally insane who have proven themselves to be dangerously violent, then there should be. -Annie > > > > > > I like your idea,Annie.I suppose in this scenario,it would be the > judges who impose the sentence? I wonder if that would help jurors to > focus more on the hard cold facts of a serious criminal case,if they > didn't have to worry about their guilty verdict leading to the death > penalty? There was an absolutely atrocious home invasion/rape/murder > case in Massachusets a couple of years ago and the jury struggled with > the degree of guilty verdict they would render since it was a death > penalty case. > > > > > > *Are* there any actual prisons just for the criminally insane > in this country? > > > > > > I think you've come up with a great way to eliminate " not > guilty by reason of insanity " verdicts! > > > > > > Often these individuals are clearly guilty of committing > horrendous crimes and " not guilty by reason of insanity " becomes > quibbling over the criminal's intent: " but did they really mean it? " > Well,they certainly " meant " it as far as their victims are > concerned,especially when such victims happen to be dead. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 I agree, the " Hannibal Lecters " and other similarly violent, psychotic, unstable, insane criminals need to be kept out of society and kept away from other, non-violent criminals. If there aren't currently special prison-hospitals for the criminally insane who have proven themselves to be dangerously violent, then there should be. -Annie > > > > > > I like your idea,Annie.I suppose in this scenario,it would be the > judges who impose the sentence? I wonder if that would help jurors to > focus more on the hard cold facts of a serious criminal case,if they > didn't have to worry about their guilty verdict leading to the death > penalty? There was an absolutely atrocious home invasion/rape/murder > case in Massachusets a couple of years ago and the jury struggled with > the degree of guilty verdict they would render since it was a death > penalty case. > > > > > > *Are* there any actual prisons just for the criminally insane > in this country? > > > > > > I think you've come up with a great way to eliminate " not > guilty by reason of insanity " verdicts! > > > > > > Often these individuals are clearly guilty of committing > horrendous crimes and " not guilty by reason of insanity " becomes > quibbling over the criminal's intent: " but did they really mean it? " > Well,they certainly " meant " it as far as their victims are > concerned,especially when such victims happen to be dead. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 I agree, the " Hannibal Lecters " and other similarly violent, psychotic, unstable, insane criminals need to be kept out of society and kept away from other, non-violent criminals. If there aren't currently special prison-hospitals for the criminally insane who have proven themselves to be dangerously violent, then there should be. -Annie > > > > > > I like your idea,Annie.I suppose in this scenario,it would be the > judges who impose the sentence? I wonder if that would help jurors to > focus more on the hard cold facts of a serious criminal case,if they > didn't have to worry about their guilty verdict leading to the death > penalty? There was an absolutely atrocious home invasion/rape/murder > case in Massachusets a couple of years ago and the jury struggled with > the degree of guilty verdict they would render since it was a death > penalty case. > > > > > > *Are* there any actual prisons just for the criminally insane > in this country? > > > > > > I think you've come up with a great way to eliminate " not > guilty by reason of insanity " verdicts! > > > > > > Often these individuals are clearly guilty of committing > horrendous crimes and " not guilty by reason of insanity " becomes > quibbling over the criminal's intent: " but did they really mean it? " > Well,they certainly " meant " it as far as their victims are > concerned,especially when such victims happen to be dead. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 Wow. That Dr just described my brother in law to a " T " (minus the pedophilia). I have always said my BIL is mentally ill, but I guess not. The staring contest gave me the creeps. My 37 yo BIL tries to look into your soul when he looks at you while you are speaking and love bombs you to get a place to stay or a hot meal. Or he tells you to f-off and threatens to physically harm you and tells you he has *always* hated you! > > I just had to share this comentary on personality disorders in this article. > . . . this is a very famous trial in my neck of the woods and the issues > around the insanity defense have my full attention. The weird thing is I > have met this man, he was a pan handler in my town, and I totally thought he > was nuts. But maybe not the kind of nuts that gets you out of prison. I > don't know, I just think it is interesting. > > http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50825206-76/gardner-mitchell-religious-mental.\ html.csp > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 Wow. That Dr just described my brother in law to a " T " (minus the pedophilia). I have always said my BIL is mentally ill, but I guess not. The staring contest gave me the creeps. My 37 yo BIL tries to look into your soul when he looks at you while you are speaking and love bombs you to get a place to stay or a hot meal. Or he tells you to f-off and threatens to physically harm you and tells you he has *always* hated you! > > I just had to share this comentary on personality disorders in this article. > . . . this is a very famous trial in my neck of the woods and the issues > around the insanity defense have my full attention. The weird thing is I > have met this man, he was a pan handler in my town, and I totally thought he > was nuts. But maybe not the kind of nuts that gets you out of prison. I > don't know, I just think it is interesting. > > http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50825206-76/gardner-mitchell-religious-mental.\ html.csp > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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