Re: EMD Dispatching Controversy?

[Guest guest]

Agreed, but do you know of anyone else doing the research right now?

[Guest guest]

Agreed, but do you know of anyone else doing the research right now?

[Guest guest]

I agree, same goes for those using SSM. The only

thing it proves is that you can increase your profit

by stretching your resources to the limit, but at the

cost of those on the other side of the 911 call. Too

many times I have seen ambulances arriving at the

scene of a major MVC 20-30 minutes after the incident

occured. The only thing MPDS does is hide the traffic

from other providers when in reality EMS has nothing

to hide from the public. Hopefully soon with the

requirements for DHS grants MPDS will be done away

with much like 10 codes due to the need for one common

language at a multijurisdiction MCI.

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-Paramedic

--- ExLngHrn@... wrote:

> The National Academy of EMD is affiliated with Dr.

> Clawson and his *proprietary* method of Emergency

> Medical Dispatching, correct?

>

> Would that be like Zoll, , or PhysioControl

> saying that defibrillation only works when you use

> their device? Or perhaps like a college or training

> program saying that EMS only works when the EMTs and

> paramedics are graduates of their school?

>

> In my opinion, there's too many proprietary

> solutions out there for EMS. EMD/MPDS and the

> various other " card " courses all fall into that

> category. Some marketing guru finds a niche, then

> starts claiming their product/system is the

> " standard of care, " and lo and behold, the lemmings

> of EMS follow behind.

>

> We've got to get away from proprietary methods and

> move towards open-source standards that are backed

> by research.

>

> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B

> Austin, Texas

>

> Re: EMD Dispatching

> Controversy?

>

>

> , I just forwarded this email to Carlynn Page

> of the National Academy Of

> EMD, we'll see what the answer is!

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree, same goes for those using SSM. The only

thing it proves is that you can increase your profit

by stretching your resources to the limit, but at the

cost of those on the other side of the 911 call. Too

many times I have seen ambulances arriving at the

scene of a major MVC 20-30 minutes after the incident

occured. The only thing MPDS does is hide the traffic

from other providers when in reality EMS has nothing

to hide from the public. Hopefully soon with the

requirements for DHS grants MPDS will be done away

with much like 10 codes due to the need for one common

language at a multijurisdiction MCI.

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-Paramedic

--- ExLngHrn@... wrote:

> The National Academy of EMD is affiliated with Dr.

> Clawson and his *proprietary* method of Emergency

> Medical Dispatching, correct?

>

> Would that be like Zoll, , or PhysioControl

> saying that defibrillation only works when you use

> their device? Or perhaps like a college or training

> program saying that EMS only works when the EMTs and

> paramedics are graduates of their school?

>

> In my opinion, there's too many proprietary

> solutions out there for EMS. EMD/MPDS and the

> various other " card " courses all fall into that

> category. Some marketing guru finds a niche, then

> starts claiming their product/system is the

> " standard of care, " and lo and behold, the lemmings

> of EMS follow behind.

>

> We've got to get away from proprietary methods and

> move towards open-source standards that are backed

> by research.

>

> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B

> Austin, Texas

>

> Re: EMD Dispatching

> Controversy?

>

>

> , I just forwarded this email to Carlynn Page

> of the National Academy Of

> EMD, we'll see what the answer is!

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree, same goes for those using SSM. The only

thing it proves is that you can increase your profit

by stretching your resources to the limit, but at the

cost of those on the other side of the 911 call. Too

many times I have seen ambulances arriving at the

scene of a major MVC 20-30 minutes after the incident

occured. The only thing MPDS does is hide the traffic

from other providers when in reality EMS has nothing

to hide from the public. Hopefully soon with the

requirements for DHS grants MPDS will be done away

with much like 10 codes due to the need for one common

language at a multijurisdiction MCI.

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-Paramedic

--- ExLngHrn@... wrote:

> The National Academy of EMD is affiliated with Dr.

> Clawson and his *proprietary* method of Emergency

> Medical Dispatching, correct?

>

> Would that be like Zoll, , or PhysioControl

> saying that defibrillation only works when you use

> their device? Or perhaps like a college or training

> program saying that EMS only works when the EMTs and

> paramedics are graduates of their school?

>

> In my opinion, there's too many proprietary

> solutions out there for EMS. EMD/MPDS and the

> various other " card " courses all fall into that

> category. Some marketing guru finds a niche, then

> starts claiming their product/system is the

> " standard of care, " and lo and behold, the lemmings

> of EMS follow behind.

>

> We've got to get away from proprietary methods and

> move towards open-source standards that are backed

> by research.

>

> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B

> Austin, Texas

>

> Re: EMD Dispatching

> Controversy?

>

>

> , I just forwarded this email to Carlynn Page

> of the National Academy Of

> EMD, we'll see what the answer is!

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sal -- I'm definitely not a fan of MPDS/EMD, but I'm unsure of the connection

between SSM and MPDS/EMD, much less the connection between stretching resources

and MPDS/EMD. Could you explain a bit further?

Thanks!

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B

Austin, Texas

Re: EMD Dispatching

> Controversy?

>

>

> , I just forwarded this email to Carlynn Page

> of the National Academy Of

> EMD, we'll see what the answer is!

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sal -- I'm definitely not a fan of MPDS/EMD, but I'm unsure of the connection

between SSM and MPDS/EMD, much less the connection between stretching resources

and MPDS/EMD. Could you explain a bit further?

Thanks!

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B

Austin, Texas

Re: EMD Dispatching

> Controversy?

>

>

> , I just forwarded this email to Carlynn Page

> of the National Academy Of

> EMD, we'll see what the answer is!

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Offhand, no. I'd need to check and see if any other research exists on MPDS/EMD

having an effect on patient outcomes. Dr. Gist's email seems to indicate that

such research may not be out there.

-Wes

Re: EMD Dispatching Controversy?

Agreed, but do you know of anyone else doing the research right now?

[Guest guest]

Offhand, no. I'd need to check and see if any other research exists on MPDS/EMD

having an effect on patient outcomes. Dr. Gist's email seems to indicate that

such research may not be out there.

-Wes

Re: EMD Dispatching Controversy?

Agreed, but do you know of anyone else doing the research right now?

[Guest guest]

Two systems that do not have very many fans. No

actual research done to say yes they work or no they

do not work, only the word of the creator. I am sure

both work in certain cases, but not all. Both have

their uses.

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-Paramedic

--- ExLngHrn@... wrote:

> Sal -- I'm definitely not a fan of MPDS/EMD, but I'm

> unsure of the connection between SSM and MPDS/EMD,

> much less the connection between stretching

> resources and MPDS/EMD. Could you explain a bit

> further?

>

> Thanks!

> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B

> Austin, Texas

>

> Re: EMD Dispatching

> > Controversy?

> >

> >

> > , I just forwarded this email to Carlynn

> Page

> > of the National Academy Of

> > EMD, we'll see what the answer is!

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Two systems that do not have very many fans. No

actual research done to say yes they work or no they

do not work, only the word of the creator. I am sure

both work in certain cases, but not all. Both have

their uses.

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-Paramedic

--- ExLngHrn@... wrote:

> Sal -- I'm definitely not a fan of MPDS/EMD, but I'm

> unsure of the connection between SSM and MPDS/EMD,

> much less the connection between stretching

> resources and MPDS/EMD. Could you explain a bit

> further?

>

> Thanks!

> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B

> Austin, Texas

>

> Re: EMD Dispatching

> > Controversy?

> >

> >

> > , I just forwarded this email to Carlynn

> Page

> > of the National Academy Of

> > EMD, we'll see what the answer is!

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Wes,

If I may ask. Why are you not a fan of MPDS/EMD?

Danny

>

> > The National Academy of EMD is affiliated with Dr.

> > Clawson and his *proprietary* method of Emergency

> > Medical Dispatching, correct?

> >

> > Would that be like Zoll, , or PhysioControl

> > saying that defibrillation only works when you use

> > their device? Or perhaps like a college or training

> > program saying that EMS only works when the EMTs and

> > paramedics are graduates of their school?

> >

> > In my opinion, there's too many proprietary

> > solutions out there for EMS. EMD/MPDS and the

> > various other " card " courses all fall into that

> > category. Some marketing guru finds a niche, then

> > starts claiming their product/system is the

> > " standard of care, " and lo and behold, the lemmings

> > of EMS follow behind.

> >

> > We've got to get away from proprietary methods and

> > move towards open-source standards that are backed

> > by research.

> >

> > -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B

> > Austin, Texas

> >

> > Re: EMD Dispatching

> > Controversy?

> >

> >

> > , I just forwarded this email to Carlynn Page

> > of the National Academy Of

> > EMD, we'll see what the answer is!

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I am a fan of MPDS. Only because I like to see order where there was chaos.

EMD and MPDS brings a protocol approach to a system that has been run " willy

nilly " for far too long. Extracting useful information from people at their

worst, and giving them usefuil nstructions when the feel all is lost.

[Guest guest]

I am a fan of MPDS. Only because I like to see order where there was chaos.

EMD and MPDS brings a protocol approach to a system that has been run " willy

nilly " for far too long. Extracting useful information from people at their

worst, and giving them usefuil nstructions when the feel all is lost.

[Guest guest]

I am a fan of MPDS. Only because I like to see order where there was chaos.

EMD and MPDS brings a protocol approach to a system that has been run " willy

nilly " for far too long. Extracting useful information from people at their

worst, and giving them usefuil nstructions when the feel all is lost.

[Guest guest]

Danny -- I'm not a fan because I've seen little science to back it as being

beneficial to the patients. Anecdotally, I've seen many times where the call

type as described by MPDS bore no relation to the patient's chief complaint.

Personally, I take all of my gear in on every call and conduct a thorough

assessment.

Of course, the call information provided by communications to the field units is

only as good as the information being provided to the caller.

-Wes

Re: EMD Dispatching

> > Controversy?

> >

> >

> > , I just forwarded this email to Carlynn Page

> > of the National Academy Of

> > EMD, we'll see what the answer is!

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Danny -- I'm not a fan because I've seen little science to back it as being

beneficial to the patients. Anecdotally, I've seen many times where the call

type as described by MPDS bore no relation to the patient's chief complaint.

Personally, I take all of my gear in on every call and conduct a thorough

assessment.

Of course, the call information provided by communications to the field units is

only as good as the information being provided to the caller.

-Wes

Re: EMD Dispatching

> > Controversy?

> >

> >

> > , I just forwarded this email to Carlynn Page

> > of the National Academy Of

> > EMD, we'll see what the answer is!

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Danny -- I'm not a fan because I've seen little science to back it as being

beneficial to the patients. Anecdotally, I've seen many times where the call

type as described by MPDS bore no relation to the patient's chief complaint.

Personally, I take all of my gear in on every call and conduct a thorough

assessment.

Of course, the call information provided by communications to the field units is

only as good as the information being provided to the caller.

-Wes

Re: EMD Dispatching

> > Controversy?

> >

> >

> > , I just forwarded this email to Carlynn Page

> > of the National Academy Of

> > EMD, we'll see what the answer is!

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

EMD will only be as good as the training, the CE, and the QI. It's a

system, not a bandaid, and definitely not a one time " thing "

Re: EMD Dispatching

> > Controversy?

> >

> >

> > , I just forwarded this email to Carlynn Page

> > of the National Academy Of

> > EMD, we'll see what the answer is!

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

EMD will only be as good as the training, the CE, and the QI. It's a

system, not a bandaid, and definitely not a one time " thing "

Re: EMD Dispatching

> > Controversy?

> >

> >

> > , I just forwarded this email to Carlynn Page

> > of the National Academy Of

> > EMD, we'll see what the answer is!

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

EMD will only be as good as the training, the CE, and the QI. It's a

system, not a bandaid, and definitely not a one time " thing "

Re: EMD Dispatching

> > Controversy?

> >

> >

> > , I just forwarded this email to Carlynn Page

> > of the National Academy Of

> > EMD, we'll see what the answer is!

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I have no clue what in the world you are talking about here. Please explain the

following statement: " The only thing MPDS does is hide the traffic from other

providers " .

What do DSHS grants and MPDS have to do with each other?

Completely missing the point,

Tater

salvador capuchino wrote:

I agree, same goes for those using SSM. The only

thing it proves is that you can increase your profit

by stretching your resources to the limit, but at the

cost of those on the other side of the 911 call. Too

many times I have seen ambulances arriving at the

scene of a major MVC 20-30 minutes after the incident

occured. The only thing MPDS does is hide the traffic

from other providers when in reality EMS has nothing

to hide from the public. Hopefully soon with the

requirements for DHS grants MPDS will be done away

with much like 10 codes due to the need for one common

language at a multijurisdiction MCI.

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-Paramedic

--- ExLngHrn@... wrote:

> The National Academy of EMD is affiliated with Dr.

> Clawson and his *proprietary* method of Emergency

> Medical Dispatching, correct?

>

> Would that be like Zoll, , or PhysioControl

> saying that defibrillation only works when you use

> their device? Or perhaps like a college or training

> program saying that EMS only works when the EMTs and

> paramedics are graduates of their school?

>

> In my opinion, there's too many proprietary

> solutions out there for EMS. EMD/MPDS and the

> various other " card " courses all fall into that

> category. Some marketing guru finds a niche, then

> starts claiming their product/system is the

> " standard of care, " and lo and behold, the lemmings

> of EMS follow behind.

>

> We've got to get away from proprietary methods and

> move towards open-source standards that are backed

> by research.

>

> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B

> Austin, Texas

>

> Re: EMD Dispatching

> Controversy?

>

>

> , I just forwarded this email to Carlynn Page

> of the National Academy Of

> EMD, we'll see what the answer is!

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wes,

Having been a dispatcher (I did both fly by the seat of your pants and MPDS),

field medic, and now professional firefighter (A.K.A. 1st responder) I

understand all aspects of this topic.

I too feel your frustration with the lack of quality information being

disseminated to responding units. All too often we roll up on a difficulty

breathing to find something totally different. We also have far too many

instances of being dispatched on a chief complaint of “A” and EMS arriving and

saying they were sent on a “Z”.

IMHO; this is a failure of the dispatcher and the dispatch center, not of

MPDS. I liked using MPDS because it gave some reasonable order to the madness

of dispatching. MPDS is a living, breathing, constantly evolving organism.

Also, as with any other protocol, it is only as good as the moron implementing

the protocol.

Does it really “save lives”? Who knows? How can we measure this? Does it

really matter? (I wish I would have thought of it……)

From the field medic point of view, I do like not being sent on every call and

having to run lights and sirens. There are studies that show the differences in

safety between running HOT and COLD. MPDS reduces the number of HOT runs,

therefore making EMS a safer profession.

In summary, retrain the existing dispatcher, or get a new one.

Tater

ExLngHrn@... wrote:

Danny -- I'm not a fan because I've seen little science to back it as being

beneficial to the patients. Anecdotally, I've seen many times where the call

type as described by MPDS bore no relation to the patient's chief complaint.

Personally, I take all of my gear in on every call and conduct a thorough

assessment.

Of course, the call information provided by communications to the field units is

only as good as the information being provided to the caller.

-Wes

Re: EMD Dispatching

> > Controversy?

> >

> >

> > , I just forwarded this email to Carlynn Page

> > of the National Academy Of

> > EMD, we'll see what the answer is!

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Wes,

Having been a dispatcher (I did both fly by the seat of your pants and MPDS),

field medic, and now professional firefighter (A.K.A. 1st responder) I

understand all aspects of this topic.

I too feel your frustration with the lack of quality information being

disseminated to responding units. All too often we roll up on a difficulty

breathing to find something totally different. We also have far too many

instances of being dispatched on a chief complaint of “A” and EMS arriving and

saying they were sent on a “Z”.

IMHO; this is a failure of the dispatcher and the dispatch center, not of

MPDS. I liked using MPDS because it gave some reasonable order to the madness

of dispatching. MPDS is a living, breathing, constantly evolving organism.

Also, as with any other protocol, it is only as good as the moron implementing

the protocol.

Does it really “save lives”? Who knows? How can we measure this? Does it

really matter? (I wish I would have thought of it……)

From the field medic point of view, I do like not being sent on every call and

having to run lights and sirens. There are studies that show the differences in

safety between running HOT and COLD. MPDS reduces the number of HOT runs,

therefore making EMS a safer profession.

In summary, retrain the existing dispatcher, or get a new one.

Tater

ExLngHrn@... wrote:

Danny -- I'm not a fan because I've seen little science to back it as being

beneficial to the patients. Anecdotally, I've seen many times where the call

type as described by MPDS bore no relation to the patient's chief complaint.

Personally, I take all of my gear in on every call and conduct a thorough

assessment.

Of course, the call information provided by communications to the field units is

only as good as the information being provided to the caller.

-Wes

Re: EMD Dispatching

> > Controversy?

> >

> >

> > , I just forwarded this email to Carlynn Page

> > of the National Academy Of

> > EMD, we'll see what the answer is!

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Wes,

Having been a dispatcher (I did both fly by the seat of your pants and MPDS),

field medic, and now professional firefighter (A.K.A. 1st responder) I

understand all aspects of this topic.

I too feel your frustration with the lack of quality information being

disseminated to responding units. All too often we roll up on a difficulty

breathing to find something totally different. We also have far too many

instances of being dispatched on a chief complaint of “A” and EMS arriving and

saying they were sent on a “Z”.

IMHO; this is a failure of the dispatcher and the dispatch center, not of

MPDS. I liked using MPDS because it gave some reasonable order to the madness

of dispatching. MPDS is a living, breathing, constantly evolving organism.

Also, as with any other protocol, it is only as good as the moron implementing

the protocol.

Does it really “save lives”? Who knows? How can we measure this? Does it

really matter? (I wish I would have thought of it……)

From the field medic point of view, I do like not being sent on every call and

having to run lights and sirens. There are studies that show the differences in

safety between running HOT and COLD. MPDS reduces the number of HOT runs,

therefore making EMS a safer profession.

In summary, retrain the existing dispatcher, or get a new one.

Tater

ExLngHrn@... wrote:

Danny -- I'm not a fan because I've seen little science to back it as being

beneficial to the patients. Anecdotally, I've seen many times where the call

type as described by MPDS bore no relation to the patient's chief complaint.

Personally, I take all of my gear in on every call and conduct a thorough

assessment.

Of course, the call information provided by communications to the field units is

only as good as the information being provided to the caller.

-Wes

Re: EMD Dispatching

> > Controversy?

> >

> >

> > , I just forwarded this email to Carlynn Page

> > of the National Academy Of

> > EMD, we'll see what the answer is!

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >