Re: a reconfirmation that bpd is an intractable and probably organic disorder

[Guest guest]

Annie

It is brutal. Worse that Alzhiemers, for it doesnt just take the back

end of life, but the whole experience.

One of the most disheartening things is the ability of a BP, for no good

reason that we can discern, to strike out viciously. No one can feel

safe, and trusting with them, because an attack can come at any moment.

I think of Sellers as Inspector Clouseau in the Pink Panther,

instructing Cato to attack him without warning to hone his fighting

skills. Well , we should all be Navy Seals.

>

> In our nada's case, it seems that the disease is intractable and is

worsening with old age. It really does appear as though our nada is on

the " borderline " between neurosis and psychosis. My nada is

experiencing paranoia and delusions (even hallucinations?) more

frequently now; Sister says that nada smells smells that aren't there

and sees people that aren't there, and nada is now convinced that Sister

is neglecting her and is after her money.

My nada spiralled down badly in the last few years of her life.

Gaslighting was always bad, and is, IMHO , a form of delusion on the

part of the BP. But the last time I spoke to her she talked about a

radio station coming out of her radiator, and some talk show host

talking about blacks and gays all night and keeping her up. She was

truly delusional. I found out , further, that she had been on Depakote,

with is an anti seizure and anti psychotic med sometimes used in more

pronounced cases of BP. She decided she should not take it, and stopped

abruptly, which is a no no for psychotropic drugs.

I would advise you and or your sis, or whoever has regular contact with

her, to begin a daily journal of all that is done, and all she says. I

would also consider contacting her Dr or T re her hallucinations.

It is not easy. I wish I had easy answers for you, but I do not. Yes,

pray for a cure or treatment.

It is a horrible disease, that ravages not just the person afflicted,

but, as we know all too well, those closest to them.

Doug

[Guest guest]

Dear Annie,

I only wish I had some of your wise words for you! What you are going through

can't be easy. I can imagine it was a comfort of sorts for you to know that your

Nada had contact with someone in the family, who was able to manage some

semblance of a relationship with her.

It wouldn't be easy to feel like it is escalating and she is getting worse. I

have often wondered that myself at different times when my mother's actions have

become utterly nutty, but in my situation, I think it is more just her letting

her guard down or circumstances act as a catalyst for the craziness to escalate.

I have had family members band around on many occasions, ready for some kind of

intervention, sure that she's hit " rock bottom " this time and I'm often swept

along thinking it is a sure and certain demise and that I have to do

SOMETHING!!! to save her. But then she goes into damage control mode- she

manipulates and places her behaviour into some kind of innocent, justifiable

framework and carries on as before until I doubt my own perceptions and

recollections of events, finally let my guard down and then the next explosion

occurs. I guess in my case I have recognised her nutty behaviour to be more of

a cyclical thing. In fact, that realisation is what helped me keep my resolve to

go N.C. I realised that after her repeated rages/hysterics/dramatic weight

loss/professions of numerous illnesses that she didn't keep spiralling into

oblivion. The most liberating thing for me in fact, was that I realised her life

carried on more or less the same without me in it.

I'm not sure this is the case for you and I'm not sure I explained that so well

(tired ol' brain post Christmas, sorry!), but I think it's good to remember that

they have a real penchant for theatrics and are very good at manipulating

situations. I don't know about you, but I find it really hard to keep level

headed when my mother " hams it up " . It just really pushes all of my FOG buttons!

On the other hand, some of the behaviour that you described does sound quite

alarming and I personally found it helpful to contact my mother's doctors and

church pastor when I felt my mother was really losing it recently. It just gave

me some peace of mind as I knew I had to pull away and it helped me find peace

within it to know that there were people in her support network who had an

understanding of her situation.

Also, another thought that ran through my mind is that as difficult as this is,

perhaps it was blessing in disguise in one sense as it is confirmation as to

why you have gone N.C. BPD is a serious illness and even though we wish we could

fix them, we can't and I think it's important for you to keep protecting

yourself!

Well Annie, this sure isn't easy and I too wish I had an easy answer! I'm not

sure this has helped you at all, but if anything, at least know that we're

thinking of you!

Be gentle with yourself and stay strong!

Wishing you many blessings,

Lynda

>

> Annie

>

> It is brutal. Worse that Alzhiemers, for it doesnt just take the back

> end of life, but the whole experience.

>

>

> One of the most disheartening things is the ability of a BP, for no good

> reason that we can discern, to strike out viciously. No one can feel

> safe, and trusting with them, because an attack can come at any moment.

> I think of Sellers as Inspector Clouseau in the Pink Panther,

> instructing Cato to attack him without warning to hone his fighting

> skills. Well , we should all be Navy Seals.

>

> >

> > In our nada's case, it seems that the disease is intractable and is

> worsening with old age. It really does appear as though our nada is on

> the " borderline " between neurosis and psychosis. My nada is

> experiencing paranoia and delusions (even hallucinations?) more

> frequently now; Sister says that nada smells smells that aren't there

> and sees people that aren't there, and nada is now convinced that Sister

> is neglecting her and is after her money.

>

>

> My nada spiralled down badly in the last few years of her life.

> Gaslighting was always bad, and is, IMHO , a form of delusion on the

> part of the BP. But the last time I spoke to her she talked about a

> radio station coming out of her radiator, and some talk show host

> talking about blacks and gays all night and keeping her up. She was

> truly delusional. I found out , further, that she had been on Depakote,

> with is an anti seizure and anti psychotic med sometimes used in more

> pronounced cases of BP. She decided she should not take it, and stopped

> abruptly, which is a no no for psychotropic drugs.

>

> I would advise you and or your sis, or whoever has regular contact with

> her, to begin a daily journal of all that is done, and all she says. I

> would also consider contacting her Dr or T re her hallucinations.

>

> It is not easy. I wish I had easy answers for you, but I do not. Yes,

> pray for a cure or treatment.

>

> It is a horrible disease, that ravages not just the person afflicted,

> but, as we know all too well, those closest to them.

>

> Doug

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks you guys. Sometimes it just helps to know that there are other people

out there who know exactly what we're going through.

I agree, Doug: it is as though we are experiencing a whole lifetime of a parent

with Alzheimers, in a way. I think personality disorder is a form of dementia,

I am convinced of it: their brains don't work right.

This is when I really, really wish that Sister and I could just switch off our

emotions like a light-switch so that when nada acts up we could instantly

emotionally detach. Sister was more able to handle nada's less extreme ups and

downs and was determined to stick with her 'til the end, and nada was behaving

herself better there for a while... and then this. The vicious attack, the

unfounded and completely loony accusation that Sister is a " shark " and only

after nada's money.

It hit Sister like a knife-stab to the heart; I have experienced those kinds of

attacks and accusations many times myself, so I know how she's feeling right

now.

So, it may be that its necessary in our case for Sister to also go No Contact

for a while; in any case, Sister is very hurt right now and wants no contact

with nada. Nada may cycle back into better and more lucid behavior or she may

deteriorate. If nada does something that gets her taken to the emergency room,

she'll get an observation and psych evaluation. Sister knows nada's regular

doctors and her psychologist and lives close enough so that she can consult

them, if she wants to. Right now Sister doesn't want to, she sounded depressed

again.

I think you are right Lynda, in that my nada's behaviors can be cyclical, but

the cycle is completely unpredictable. I realized as a child that my mommy

would be nice to me and happy sometimes, then she'd start picking at me and

criticizing me more and more often and more harshly, then she'd explode at me

and scream at me and hit me, then she'd be all calm again and nice again. And

that might happen all in one day or it might happen over a week; I could never

really know. And sometimes she'd just explode into a red-faced screaming

rage/tantrum out of the blue. (And it was always my fault, of course, because I

was such a bad, defective, disappointing, selfish, ungrateful child.)

The fact that the attacks are so personal, so targeted to the individual, is

what makes it close to impossible for us to detach emotionally and just deal

with the behaviors objectively and dispassionately.

If my mother were raving about Martians or talking dogs being out to steal her

money, that would be relatively easy to deal with. Its the " come close to me,

dearest child, so I can slap the living tar out of you " behaviors that Sister

and I just can't handle.

And we can't handle accusations that we are trying to harm nada: trying to steal

from her or physically hurt her. We absolutely have to protect ourselves from

that.

Neither Sister nor I have ever tried to harm our mother but she could really

hurt us with false accusations, even if they are obviously false. At least I

have made public statements (about 2 years ago) to both nada and her

psychologist at the same time that I want nothing to do with nada's finances and

please take my name off of any papers having to do with nada's bank accounts or

other financial instruments. I asked to be taken out of nada's will, but nada

refused. And I refuse to ever be alone with my nada again; I want witnesses

around if I ever visit her in person again. And I think Sister may be thinking

about handing over all her co-management responsibilities RE nada's financial

instruments to nada's sister, at this point, if our aunt is willing.

Its a time of change and flux and stepping into the unknown.

The only thing that seems really clear to me, though, is at the core of my nada

there is a real contempt for me and Sister. I believe that nada has always felt

that she as a mother was *supposed* to love her children, but her behavior

towards us over our lifetime shows that she struggled with that.

I think that underneath it all nada has malignant narcissistic pd, which

explains her fantastically, cartoonishly unrealistic expectations of Sister and

me (and poor dad). It explains why we were always disappointing her no matter

how hard she pushed us to achieve. We failed her over and over again by not

being amazing child prodigies that would garner her fame and money, by not being

head cheerleaders or prom queens and not being brilliant enough to earn

scholarships, by not marrying rich, famous husbands, by not becoming famous in

our careers, etc.

Just being kind of average and kind of successful and kind of ordinary was never

good enough.

So, underneath nada's nice behaviors there was a simmering resentment. Nada

felt cheated out of the reflected glory she expected out of us; we were and are

lazy, stupid, ungrateful and selfish. And now, on top of that, we are

untrustworthy thieves. So those are the bedrock feelings that keep cropping up,

the true underlying feelings that get exposed over and over when nada can no

longer manage to keep up the semblance of loving and kind behaviors.

Its just really so very sad.

-Annie

> >

> > Annie

> >

> > It is brutal. Worse that Alzhiemers, for it doesnt just take the back

> > end of life, but the whole experience.

> >

> >

> > One of the most disheartening things is the ability of a BP, for no good

> > reason that we can discern, to strike out viciously. No one can feel

> > safe, and trusting with them, because an attack can come at any moment.

> > I think of Sellers as Inspector Clouseau in the Pink Panther,

> > instructing Cato to attack him without warning to hone his fighting

> > skills. Well , we should all be Navy Seals.

> >

> > >

> > > In our nada's case, it seems that the disease is intractable and is

> > worsening with old age. It really does appear as though our nada is on

> > the " borderline " between neurosis and psychosis. My nada is

> > experiencing paranoia and delusions (even hallucinations?) more

> > frequently now; Sister says that nada smells smells that aren't there

> > and sees people that aren't there, and nada is now convinced that Sister

> > is neglecting her and is after her money.

> >

> >

> > My nada spiralled down badly in the last few years of her life.

> > Gaslighting was always bad, and is, IMHO , a form of delusion on the

> > part of the BP. But the last time I spoke to her she talked about a

> > radio station coming out of her radiator, and some talk show host

> > talking about blacks and gays all night and keeping her up. She was

> > truly delusional. I found out , further, that she had been on Depakote,

> > with is an anti seizure and anti psychotic med sometimes used in more

> > pronounced cases of BP. She decided she should not take it, and stopped

> > abruptly, which is a no no for psychotropic drugs.

> >

> > I would advise you and or your sis, or whoever has regular contact with

> > her, to begin a daily journal of all that is done, and all she says. I

> > would also consider contacting her Dr or T re her hallucinations.

> >

> > It is not easy. I wish I had easy answers for you, but I do not. Yes,

> > pray for a cure or treatment.

> >

> > It is a horrible disease, that ravages not just the person afflicted,

> > but, as we know all too well, those closest to them.

> >

> > Doug

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I just read your post to my husband. At the end he said. " So when did you write

that? " . Once again I realize someone else has lived (and is living) my life down

to the tiniest detail because of BPD. I pray for our healing. Thank you for

sharing and for your insight.

Tag

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Re: a reconfirmation that bpd is an intractable and

probably organic disorder

Thanks you guys. Sometimes it just helps to know that there are other people

out there who know exactly what we're going through.

I agree, Doug: it is as though we are experiencing a whole lifetime of a parent

with Alzheimers, in a way. I think personality disorder is a form of dementia,

I am convinced of it: their brains don't work right.

This is when I really, really wish that Sister and I could just switch off our

emotions like a light-switch so that when nada acts up we could instantly

emotionally detach. Sister was more able to handle nada's less extreme ups and

downs and was determined to stick with her 'til the end, and nada was behaving

herself better there for a while... and then this. The vicious attack, the

unfounded and completely loony accusation that Sister is a " shark " and only

after nada's money.

It hit Sister like a knife-stab to the heart; I have experienced those kinds of

attacks and accusations many times myself, so I know how she's feeling right

now.

So, it may be that its necessary in our case for Sister to also go No Contact

for a while; in any case, Sister is very hurt right now and wants no contact

with nada. Nada may cycle back into better and more lucid behavior or she may

deteriorate. If nada does something that gets her taken to the emergency room,

she'll get an observation and psych evaluation. Sister knows nada's regular

doctors and her psychologist and lives close enough so that she can consult

them, if she wants to. Right now Sister doesn't want to, she sounded depressed

again.

I think you are right Lynda, in that my nada's behaviors can be cyclical, but

the cycle is completely unpredictable. I realized as a child that my mommy

would be nice to me and happy sometimes, then she'd start picking at me and

criticizing me more and more often and more harshly, then she'd explode at me

and scream at me and hit me, then she'd be all calm again and nice again. And

that might happen all in one day or it might happen over a week; I could never

really know. And sometimes she'd just explode into a red-faced screaming

rage/tantrum out of the blue. (And it was always my fault, of course, because I

was such a bad, defective, disappointing, selfish, ungrateful child.)

The fact that the attacks are so personal, so targeted to the individual, is

what makes it close to impossible for us to detach emotionally and just deal

with the behaviors objectively and dispassionately.

If my mother were raving about Martians or talking dogs being out to steal her

money, that would be relatively easy to deal with. Its the " come close to me,

dearest child, so I can slap the living tar out of you " behaviors that Sister

and I just can't handle.

And we can't handle accusations that we are trying to harm nada: trying to steal

from her or physically hurt her. We absolutely have to protect ourselves from

that.

Neither Sister nor I have ever tried to harm our mother but she could really

hurt us with false accusations, even if they are obviously false. At least I

have made public statements (about 2 years ago) to both nada and her

psychologist at the same time that I want nothing to do with nada's finances and

please take my name off of any papers having to do with nada's bank accounts or

other financial instruments. I asked to be taken out of nada's will, but nada

refused. And I refuse to ever be alone with my nada again; I want witnesses

around if I ever visit her in person again. And I think Sister may be thinking

about handing over all her co-management responsibilities RE nada's financial

instruments to nada's sister, at this point, if our aunt is willing.

Its a time of change and flux and stepping into the unknown.

The only thing that seems really clear to me, though, is at the core of my nada

there is a real contempt for me and Sister. I believe that nada has always felt

that she as a mother was *supposed* to love her children, but her behavior

towards us over our lifetime shows that she struggled with that.

I think that underneath it all nada has malignant narcissistic pd, which

explains her fantastically, cartoonishly unrealistic expectations of Sister and

me (and poor dad). It explains why we were always disappointing her no matter

how hard she pushed us to achieve. We failed her over and over again by not

being amazing child prodigies that would garner her fame and money, by not being

head cheerleaders or prom queens and not being brilliant enough to earn

scholarships, by not marrying rich, famous husbands, by not becoming famous in

our careers, etc.

Just being kind of average and kind of successful and kind of ordinary was never

good enough.

So, underneath nada's nice behaviors there was a simmering resentment. Nada

felt cheated out of the reflected glory she expected out of us; we were and are

lazy, stupid, ungrateful and selfish. And now, on top of that, we are

untrustworthy thieves. So those are the bedrock feelings that keep cropping up,

the true underlying feelings that get exposed over and over when nada can no

longer manage to keep up the semblance of loving and kind behaviors.

Its just really so very sad.

-Annie

> >

> > Annie

> >

> > It is brutal. Worse that Alzhiemers, for it doesnt just take the back

> > end of life, but the whole experience.

> >

> >

> > One of the most disheartening things is the ability of a BP, for no good

> > reason that we can discern, to strike out viciously. No one can feel

> > safe, and trusting with them, because an attack can come at any moment.

> > I think of Sellers as Inspector Clouseau in the Pink Panther,

> > instructing Cato to attack him without warning to hone his fighting

> > skills. Well , we should all be Navy Seals.

> >

> > >

> > > In our nada's case, it seems that the disease is intractable and is

> > worsening with old age. It really does appear as though our nada is on

> > the " borderline " between neurosis and psychosis. My nada is

> > experiencing paranoia and delusions (even hallucinations?) more

> > frequently now; Sister says that nada smells smells that aren't there

> > and sees people that aren't there, and nada is now convinced that Sister

> > is neglecting her and is after her money.

> >

> >

> > My nada spiralled down badly in the last few years of her life.

> > Gaslighting was always bad, and is, IMHO , a form of delusion on the

> > part of the BP. But the last time I spoke to her she talked about a

> > radio station coming out of her radiator, and some talk show host

> > talking about blacks and gays all night and keeping her up. She was

> > truly delusional. I found out , further, that she had been on Depakote,

> > with is an anti seizure and anti psychotic med sometimes used in more

> > pronounced cases of BP. She decided she should not take it, and stopped

> > abruptly, which is a no no for psychotropic drugs.

> >

> > I would advise you and or your sis, or whoever has regular contact with

> > her, to begin a daily journal of all that is done, and all she says. I

> > would also consider contacting her Dr or T re her hallucinations.

> >

> > It is not easy. I wish I had easy answers for you, but I do not. Yes,

> > pray for a cure or treatment.

> >

> > It is a horrible disease, that ravages not just the person afflicted,

> > but, as we know all too well, those closest to them.

> >

> > Doug

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I just read your post to my husband. At the end he said. " So when did you write

that? " . Once again I realize someone else has lived (and is living) my life down

to the tiniest detail because of BPD. I pray for our healing. Thank you for

sharing and for your insight.

Tag

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Re: a reconfirmation that bpd is an intractable and

probably organic disorder

Thanks you guys. Sometimes it just helps to know that there are other people

out there who know exactly what we're going through.

I agree, Doug: it is as though we are experiencing a whole lifetime of a parent

with Alzheimers, in a way. I think personality disorder is a form of dementia,

I am convinced of it: their brains don't work right.

This is when I really, really wish that Sister and I could just switch off our

emotions like a light-switch so that when nada acts up we could instantly

emotionally detach. Sister was more able to handle nada's less extreme ups and

downs and was determined to stick with her 'til the end, and nada was behaving

herself better there for a while... and then this. The vicious attack, the

unfounded and completely loony accusation that Sister is a " shark " and only

after nada's money.

It hit Sister like a knife-stab to the heart; I have experienced those kinds of

attacks and accusations many times myself, so I know how she's feeling right

now.

So, it may be that its necessary in our case for Sister to also go No Contact

for a while; in any case, Sister is very hurt right now and wants no contact

with nada. Nada may cycle back into better and more lucid behavior or she may

deteriorate. If nada does something that gets her taken to the emergency room,

she'll get an observation and psych evaluation. Sister knows nada's regular

doctors and her psychologist and lives close enough so that she can consult

them, if she wants to. Right now Sister doesn't want to, she sounded depressed

again.

I think you are right Lynda, in that my nada's behaviors can be cyclical, but

the cycle is completely unpredictable. I realized as a child that my mommy

would be nice to me and happy sometimes, then she'd start picking at me and

criticizing me more and more often and more harshly, then she'd explode at me

and scream at me and hit me, then she'd be all calm again and nice again. And

that might happen all in one day or it might happen over a week; I could never

really know. And sometimes she'd just explode into a red-faced screaming

rage/tantrum out of the blue. (And it was always my fault, of course, because I

was such a bad, defective, disappointing, selfish, ungrateful child.)

The fact that the attacks are so personal, so targeted to the individual, is

what makes it close to impossible for us to detach emotionally and just deal

with the behaviors objectively and dispassionately.

If my mother were raving about Martians or talking dogs being out to steal her

money, that would be relatively easy to deal with. Its the " come close to me,

dearest child, so I can slap the living tar out of you " behaviors that Sister

and I just can't handle.

And we can't handle accusations that we are trying to harm nada: trying to steal

from her or physically hurt her. We absolutely have to protect ourselves from

that.

Neither Sister nor I have ever tried to harm our mother but she could really

hurt us with false accusations, even if they are obviously false. At least I

have made public statements (about 2 years ago) to both nada and her

psychologist at the same time that I want nothing to do with nada's finances and

please take my name off of any papers having to do with nada's bank accounts or

other financial instruments. I asked to be taken out of nada's will, but nada

refused. And I refuse to ever be alone with my nada again; I want witnesses

around if I ever visit her in person again. And I think Sister may be thinking

about handing over all her co-management responsibilities RE nada's financial

instruments to nada's sister, at this point, if our aunt is willing.

Its a time of change and flux and stepping into the unknown.

The only thing that seems really clear to me, though, is at the core of my nada

there is a real contempt for me and Sister. I believe that nada has always felt

that she as a mother was *supposed* to love her children, but her behavior

towards us over our lifetime shows that she struggled with that.

I think that underneath it all nada has malignant narcissistic pd, which

explains her fantastically, cartoonishly unrealistic expectations of Sister and

me (and poor dad). It explains why we were always disappointing her no matter

how hard she pushed us to achieve. We failed her over and over again by not

being amazing child prodigies that would garner her fame and money, by not being

head cheerleaders or prom queens and not being brilliant enough to earn

scholarships, by not marrying rich, famous husbands, by not becoming famous in

our careers, etc.

Just being kind of average and kind of successful and kind of ordinary was never

good enough.

So, underneath nada's nice behaviors there was a simmering resentment. Nada

felt cheated out of the reflected glory she expected out of us; we were and are

lazy, stupid, ungrateful and selfish. And now, on top of that, we are

untrustworthy thieves. So those are the bedrock feelings that keep cropping up,

the true underlying feelings that get exposed over and over when nada can no

longer manage to keep up the semblance of loving and kind behaviors.

Its just really so very sad.

-Annie

> >

> > Annie

> >

> > It is brutal. Worse that Alzhiemers, for it doesnt just take the back

> > end of life, but the whole experience.

> >

> >

> > One of the most disheartening things is the ability of a BP, for no good

> > reason that we can discern, to strike out viciously. No one can feel

> > safe, and trusting with them, because an attack can come at any moment.

> > I think of Sellers as Inspector Clouseau in the Pink Panther,

> > instructing Cato to attack him without warning to hone his fighting

> > skills. Well , we should all be Navy Seals.

> >

> > >

> > > In our nada's case, it seems that the disease is intractable and is

> > worsening with old age. It really does appear as though our nada is on

> > the " borderline " between neurosis and psychosis. My nada is

> > experiencing paranoia and delusions (even hallucinations?) more

> > frequently now; Sister says that nada smells smells that aren't there

> > and sees people that aren't there, and nada is now convinced that Sister

> > is neglecting her and is after her money.

> >

> >

> > My nada spiralled down badly in the last few years of her life.

> > Gaslighting was always bad, and is, IMHO , a form of delusion on the

> > part of the BP. But the last time I spoke to her she talked about a

> > radio station coming out of her radiator, and some talk show host

> > talking about blacks and gays all night and keeping her up. She was

> > truly delusional. I found out , further, that she had been on Depakote,

> > with is an anti seizure and anti psychotic med sometimes used in more

> > pronounced cases of BP. She decided she should not take it, and stopped

> > abruptly, which is a no no for psychotropic drugs.

> >

> > I would advise you and or your sis, or whoever has regular contact with

> > her, to begin a daily journal of all that is done, and all she says. I

> > would also consider contacting her Dr or T re her hallucinations.

> >

> > It is not easy. I wish I had easy answers for you, but I do not. Yes,

> > pray for a cure or treatment.

> >

> > It is a horrible disease, that ravages not just the person afflicted,

> > but, as we know all too well, those closest to them.

> >

> > Doug

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I just read your post to my husband. At the end he said. " So when did you write

that? " . Once again I realize someone else has lived (and is living) my life down

to the tiniest detail because of BPD. I pray for our healing. Thank you for

sharing and for your insight.

Tag

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Re: a reconfirmation that bpd is an intractable and

probably organic disorder

Thanks you guys. Sometimes it just helps to know that there are other people

out there who know exactly what we're going through.

I agree, Doug: it is as though we are experiencing a whole lifetime of a parent

with Alzheimers, in a way. I think personality disorder is a form of dementia,

I am convinced of it: their brains don't work right.

This is when I really, really wish that Sister and I could just switch off our

emotions like a light-switch so that when nada acts up we could instantly

emotionally detach. Sister was more able to handle nada's less extreme ups and

downs and was determined to stick with her 'til the end, and nada was behaving

herself better there for a while... and then this. The vicious attack, the

unfounded and completely loony accusation that Sister is a " shark " and only

after nada's money.

It hit Sister like a knife-stab to the heart; I have experienced those kinds of

attacks and accusations many times myself, so I know how she's feeling right

now.

So, it may be that its necessary in our case for Sister to also go No Contact

for a while; in any case, Sister is very hurt right now and wants no contact

with nada. Nada may cycle back into better and more lucid behavior or she may

deteriorate. If nada does something that gets her taken to the emergency room,

she'll get an observation and psych evaluation. Sister knows nada's regular

doctors and her psychologist and lives close enough so that she can consult

them, if she wants to. Right now Sister doesn't want to, she sounded depressed

again.

I think you are right Lynda, in that my nada's behaviors can be cyclical, but

the cycle is completely unpredictable. I realized as a child that my mommy

would be nice to me and happy sometimes, then she'd start picking at me and

criticizing me more and more often and more harshly, then she'd explode at me

and scream at me and hit me, then she'd be all calm again and nice again. And

that might happen all in one day or it might happen over a week; I could never

really know. And sometimes she'd just explode into a red-faced screaming

rage/tantrum out of the blue. (And it was always my fault, of course, because I

was such a bad, defective, disappointing, selfish, ungrateful child.)

The fact that the attacks are so personal, so targeted to the individual, is

what makes it close to impossible for us to detach emotionally and just deal

with the behaviors objectively and dispassionately.

If my mother were raving about Martians or talking dogs being out to steal her

money, that would be relatively easy to deal with. Its the " come close to me,

dearest child, so I can slap the living tar out of you " behaviors that Sister

and I just can't handle.

And we can't handle accusations that we are trying to harm nada: trying to steal

from her or physically hurt her. We absolutely have to protect ourselves from

that.

Neither Sister nor I have ever tried to harm our mother but she could really

hurt us with false accusations, even if they are obviously false. At least I

have made public statements (about 2 years ago) to both nada and her

psychologist at the same time that I want nothing to do with nada's finances and

please take my name off of any papers having to do with nada's bank accounts or

other financial instruments. I asked to be taken out of nada's will, but nada

refused. And I refuse to ever be alone with my nada again; I want witnesses

around if I ever visit her in person again. And I think Sister may be thinking

about handing over all her co-management responsibilities RE nada's financial

instruments to nada's sister, at this point, if our aunt is willing.

Its a time of change and flux and stepping into the unknown.

The only thing that seems really clear to me, though, is at the core of my nada

there is a real contempt for me and Sister. I believe that nada has always felt

that she as a mother was *supposed* to love her children, but her behavior

towards us over our lifetime shows that she struggled with that.

I think that underneath it all nada has malignant narcissistic pd, which

explains her fantastically, cartoonishly unrealistic expectations of Sister and

me (and poor dad). It explains why we were always disappointing her no matter

how hard she pushed us to achieve. We failed her over and over again by not

being amazing child prodigies that would garner her fame and money, by not being

head cheerleaders or prom queens and not being brilliant enough to earn

scholarships, by not marrying rich, famous husbands, by not becoming famous in

our careers, etc.

Just being kind of average and kind of successful and kind of ordinary was never

good enough.

So, underneath nada's nice behaviors there was a simmering resentment. Nada

felt cheated out of the reflected glory she expected out of us; we were and are

lazy, stupid, ungrateful and selfish. And now, on top of that, we are

untrustworthy thieves. So those are the bedrock feelings that keep cropping up,

the true underlying feelings that get exposed over and over when nada can no

longer manage to keep up the semblance of loving and kind behaviors.

Its just really so very sad.

-Annie

> >

> > Annie

> >

> > It is brutal. Worse that Alzhiemers, for it doesnt just take the back

> > end of life, but the whole experience.

> >

> >

> > One of the most disheartening things is the ability of a BP, for no good

> > reason that we can discern, to strike out viciously. No one can feel

> > safe, and trusting with them, because an attack can come at any moment.

> > I think of Sellers as Inspector Clouseau in the Pink Panther,

> > instructing Cato to attack him without warning to hone his fighting

> > skills. Well , we should all be Navy Seals.

> >

> > >

> > > In our nada's case, it seems that the disease is intractable and is

> > worsening with old age. It really does appear as though our nada is on

> > the " borderline " between neurosis and psychosis. My nada is

> > experiencing paranoia and delusions (even hallucinations?) more

> > frequently now; Sister says that nada smells smells that aren't there

> > and sees people that aren't there, and nada is now convinced that Sister

> > is neglecting her and is after her money.

> >

> >

> > My nada spiralled down badly in the last few years of her life.

> > Gaslighting was always bad, and is, IMHO , a form of delusion on the

> > part of the BP. But the last time I spoke to her she talked about a

> > radio station coming out of her radiator, and some talk show host

> > talking about blacks and gays all night and keeping her up. She was

> > truly delusional. I found out , further, that she had been on Depakote,

> > with is an anti seizure and anti psychotic med sometimes used in more

> > pronounced cases of BP. She decided she should not take it, and stopped

> > abruptly, which is a no no for psychotropic drugs.

> >

> > I would advise you and or your sis, or whoever has regular contact with

> > her, to begin a daily journal of all that is done, and all she says. I

> > would also consider contacting her Dr or T re her hallucinations.

> >

> > It is not easy. I wish I had easy answers for you, but I do not. Yes,

> > pray for a cure or treatment.

> >

> > It is a horrible disease, that ravages not just the person afflicted,

> > but, as we know all too well, those closest to them.

> >

> > Doug

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Tag,

Yes, it is uncanny how similar many of our experiences are. I'm sorry that so

many of us are having to live through the tragedy of a parent with one or more

Cluster B pds, and/or other mental illnesses.

The greatest benefit I've taken from belonging to this Group and other support

Groups for the adult children of the mentally ill is the knowledge that I did

not make my mother this way. Her mental illness isn't my fault, and nothing I

can possibly do or say can please her or cure her. I grew up and into adulthood

believing that I made her so angry and was such a disappointment to her that I

caused her to lash out at me like she did.

I've learned that it doesn't make me a bad person or a bad daughter to protect

myself from my mother. I have the right to protect myself from anyone who is

trying to harm me, including my own mother.

What I'm learning now is that sometimes, all I can do is just watch from a safe

distance as the course of the disorder works it way out one way or the other,

and be there when the time comes that I *can* make choices and decisions for my

nada's best interest (Sister and I together, hopefully.)

Stepping back away from the feeling of responsibility is one thing, but stepping

back away from emotional attachment is another thing entirely. I'm not sure I

can ever achieve the emotional detachment necessary in order for me to safely

resume any kind of contact with my nada, but, its something I'm hoping for.

And as our fellow KO Doug says, " May we all heal. "

-Annie

>

> I just read your post to my husband. At the end he said. " So when did you

write that? " . Once again I realize someone else has lived (and is living) my

life down to the tiniest detail because of BPD. I pray for our healing. Thank

you for sharing and for your insight.

> Tag

> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry,Annie.It's so so sad when a working sort of status quo seems to have

been achieved and their illness mutates even that.No,their brains don't work

right at all and the baseline their brains return to again and again is

tragically toxic: both to them and to us.And it's painful to see that their

bedrock feelings are negativity,contempt,nastiness,unfounded paranoia...and that

their displays of " niceness " can't simply endure as they are; to see how

tragically ephemeral they are...

I found myself in that position,with fada when he was dying,of being

accused of harboring harmful intentions when I had none.I refuse to be subjected

to that again with nada.These are the people who abused us in life altering ways

yet we are trying to do what is right by them--of course you and your sister

must protect yourselves from false accusations.The way that this disease devours

good will and the best of intentions is truly hideous.

Their negativity feels so personal because it strikes right at the heart

of our attempts to conciliate any kind of bearable relationship--attempts that

nada/fada's disease cannot rest easy with.So then the bubble of a " working

solution " gets burst,again.

The " Queen trip " or the malignant narc PD part is a carrot on a stick

that they brandish,I think.Because I think that even *if* we did achieve the

" glory " they claim to want from us so that they can then bask in it,that is

*not* going to dissolve the core bedrock of resentment.I think that they'd use

us/misuse us,anyway.I think they'd resent us,anyway.Simply because that's what

they do.They get us chasing that carrot on a stick of " if only I'd danced to

nada's tune/been the glory of her dreams or delusions/*been* the zenith that

negates her nadir " that perhaps she'd be showing me some mercy now.Highly

doubtful--much more likely for her never to be satisfied,no matter what,because

satisfaction itself and their disease are at polar distances from

eachother.They'd find a reason to be miserable or rejected or affronted etc

because that is their baseline.And inevitably they will return to it.And you're

right: it's cartoonish and unrealistic---and so damned sad that the value of

simple everyday decency totally escapes their comprehension of life,of their

relationship with their own children.

Fada died bragging about my career success to certain people outside the

FOO (where his bragging would have maximum ego impact for him) while

simultaneously telling the FOO (where his self pitying whining would have

maximum ego impact for him) that I was so busy " getting ahead at work " that I

didn't care he was dying.I could not placate that man's disease with

" success " ,only have him use it for his own needs,basically to feed his disease.

When I was in my early twenties nada let me know that she was disappointed

in me because I hadn't yet published the great novel she expected of me (she

wanted me to be a writer to fulfill *her* literary ambitions--never mind what an

enormous and daunting task that is; never mind if trying to do that would have

dstroyed me at the time)---anyway---she told me during that " conversation " in a

bitter tone, " I wanted a daughter who would grow up to date the captain of the

football team and be the head cheerleader,instead I got a seven year old

vegetarian Marxist.Even then,I knew you were never going to be the daughter I

wanted.... "

First of all,what if I *had* been the head cheerleader? That's what she

had been.There is no way she would have tolerated that without feeling so

threatened she needed to trump me somehow,cut me down to size,make me

suffer.There can only be *one* head cheerleader--and that is nada! I never *was*

the freaking daughter she " wanted " ,not even when I was a baby.And I never would

have been because her " wanting " is all based on delusions of her own grandeur

that she'd never,ever allow me to best.Even her whining about it was a kind of

ego trip.

(And I never was a " Marxist " .I did go through a phase around age seven of

wanting to foment a revolution but only because I wanted everyone in the world

to be equal and happy--something a nada could never understand! I stopped eating

meat for the same reasons.I felt like only idealism could save my sanity...)

For years,into my thirties,I did wonder if had I been the rah rah rah

perky sunshiny cheerleader type that my nada " wanted " me to be,if that would

have made " everything " better.If,by being able to truly be nada's fantasy

daughter,that would have somehow absolved us both.But of what? If both her " mini

me " fantasies and her resentment were issuing from her disorder,then there could

be no absolution.Because the disorder itself would still be there,bottom feeding

constantly.

We can't fix them.We can't fix this.No matter what they say.Their

" disappointment " in us is a desperate claim to normalcy on their part--it's

their mental illness that cheats them,not us.It cheats us,too.In their denial of

their disease they pummel us with the tragic symbolisms of their denial,such as

calling us thieves when the sad reality is that it is the illness that is

robbing them and robbing us of our mothers.

I'm sorry you and your sister have had this kick in the gut,again.

> Re: a reconfirmation that bpd is an intractable

and probably organic disorder

>

> Thanks you guys. Sometimes it just helps to know that there are other people

out there who know exactly what we're going through.

>

> I agree, Doug: it is as though we are experiencing a whole lifetime of a

parent with Alzheimers, in a way. I think personality disorder is a form of

dementia, I am convinced of it: their brains don't work right.

>

> This is when I really, really wish that Sister and I could just switch off our

emotions like a light-switch so that when nada acts up we could instantly

emotionally detach. Sister was more able to handle nada's less extreme ups and

downs and was determined to stick with her 'til the end, and nada was behaving

herself better there for a while... and then this. The vicious attack, the

unfounded and completely loony accusation that Sister is a " shark " and only

after nada's money.

>

> It hit Sister like a knife-stab to the heart; I have experienced those kinds

of attacks and accusations many times myself, so I know how she's feeling right

now.

>

> So, it may be that its necessary in our case for Sister to also go No Contact

for a while; in any case, Sister is very hurt right now and wants no contact

with nada. Nada may cycle back into better and more lucid behavior or she may

deteriorate. If nada does something that gets her taken to the emergency room,

she'll get an observation and psych evaluation. Sister knows nada's regular

doctors and her psychologist and lives close enough so that she can consult

them, if she wants to. Right now Sister doesn't want to, she sounded depressed

again.

>

> I think you are right Lynda, in that my nada's behaviors can be cyclical, but

the cycle is completely unpredictable. I realized as a child that my mommy

would be nice to me and happy sometimes, then she'd start picking at me and

criticizing me more and more often and more harshly, then she'd explode at me

and scream at me and hit me, then she'd be all calm again and nice again. And

that might happen all in one day or it might happen over a week; I could never

really know. And sometimes she'd just explode into a red-faced screaming

rage/tantrum out of the blue. (And it was always my fault, of course, because I

was such a bad, defective, disappointing, selfish, ungrateful child.)

>

> The fact that the attacks are so personal, so targeted to the individual, is

what makes it close to impossible for us to detach emotionally and just deal

with the behaviors objectively and dispassionately.

>

> If my mother were raving about Martians or talking dogs being out to steal her

money, that would be relatively easy to deal with. Its the " come close to me,

dearest child, so I can slap the living tar out of you " behaviors that Sister

and I just can't handle.

>

> And we can't handle accusations that we are trying to harm nada: trying to

steal from her or physically hurt her. We absolutely have to protect ourselves

from that.

>

> Neither Sister nor I have ever tried to harm our mother but she could really

hurt us with false accusations, even if they are obviously false. At least I

have made public statements (about 2 years ago) to both nada and her

psychologist at the same time that I want nothing to do with nada's finances and

please take my name off of any papers having to do with nada's bank accounts or

other financial instruments. I asked to be taken out of nada's will, but nada

refused. And I refuse to ever be alone with my nada again; I want witnesses

around if I ever visit her in person again. And I think Sister may be thinking

about handing over all her co-management responsibilities RE nada's financial

instruments to nada's sister, at this point, if our aunt is willing.

>

> Its a time of change and flux and stepping into the unknown.

>

> The only thing that seems really clear to me, though, is at the core of my

nada there is a real contempt for me and Sister. I believe that nada has always

felt that she as a mother was *supposed* to love her children, but her behavior

towards us over our lifetime shows that she struggled with that.

>

> I think that underneath it all nada has malignant narcissistic pd, which

explains her fantastically, cartoonishly unrealistic expectations of Sister and

me (and poor dad). It explains why we were always disappointing her no matter

how hard she pushed us to achieve. We failed her over and over again by not

being amazing child prodigies that would garner her fame and money, by not being

head cheerleaders or prom queens and not being brilliant enough to earn

scholarships, by not marrying rich, famous husbands, by not becoming famous in

our careers, etc.

>

> Just being kind of average and kind of successful and kind of ordinary was

never good enough.

>

> So, underneath nada's nice behaviors there was a simmering resentment. Nada

felt cheated out of the reflected glory she expected out of us; we were and are

lazy, stupid, ungrateful and selfish. And now, on top of that, we are

untrustworthy thieves. So those are the bedrock feelings that keep cropping up,

the true underlying feelings that get exposed over and over when nada can no

longer manage to keep up the semblance of loving and kind behaviors.

>

> Its just really so very sad.

>

> -Annie

[Guest guest]

Thanks, . I think you are right, and even if Sister and I had been

able to achieve wild and public success (the fame that nada so craved) it would

probably have triggered a jealous reaction or some other negativity in nada.

Having a personality-disordered parent is simply a no-win situation, bottom

line, any way you look at it.

I did achieve some moderate success at one point in my career, and nada ran with

it. Nada exaggerated this nice but moderate success into something outlandishly

and obviously unbelievable when bragging about it to others. I'd have to

explain to relatives and acquaintances of nada's who congratulated me, " Thanks,

but please understand that I do NOT run a division of this huge multinational

corporation; I just got a small promotion and raise, I'm in the same department

I've always been in, and I'm very happy about it... but you know how my mother

is. "

So nada put me in the awkward position of continually having to " out " her

fantasy exaggerations and then she'd be furious and hurt with me for making her

look bad. And she'd harangue me to achieve even more; the promotions and raises

I did get were never good enough.

No win, no win, no win. Ever.

-Annie

>

> I'm sorry,Annie.It's so so sad when a working sort of status quo seems to have

been achieved and their illness mutates even that.No,their brains don't work

right at all and the baseline their brains return to again and again is

tragically toxic: both to them and to us.And it's painful to see that their

bedrock feelings are negativity,contempt,nastiness,unfounded paranoia...and that

their displays of " niceness " can't simply endure as they are; to see how

tragically ephemeral they are...

>

> I found myself in that position,with fada when he was dying,of being

accused of harboring harmful intentions when I had none.I refuse to be subjected

to that again with nada.These are the people who abused us in life altering ways

yet we are trying to do what is right by them--of course you and your sister

must protect yourselves from false accusations.The way that this disease devours

good will and the best of intentions is truly hideous.

>

> Their negativity feels so personal because it strikes right at the

heart of our attempts to conciliate any kind of bearable relationship--attempts

that nada/fada's disease cannot rest easy with.So then the bubble of a " working

solution " gets burst,again.

>

> The " Queen trip " or the malignant narc PD part is a carrot on a stick

that they brandish,I think.Because I think that even *if* we did achieve the

" glory " they claim to want from us so that they can then bask in it,that is

*not* going to dissolve the core bedrock of resentment.I think that they'd use

us/misuse us,anyway.I think they'd resent us,anyway.Simply because that's what

they do.They get us chasing that carrot on a stick of " if only I'd danced to

nada's tune/been the glory of her dreams or delusions/*been* the zenith that

negates her nadir " that perhaps she'd be showing me some mercy now.Highly

doubtful--much more likely for her never to be satisfied,no matter what,because

satisfaction itself and their disease are at polar distances from

eachother.They'd find a reason to be miserable or rejected or affronted etc

because that is their baseline.And inevitably they will return to it.And you're

right: it's cartoonish and unrealistic---and so damned sad that the value of

simple everyday decency totally escapes their comprehension of life,of their

relationship with their own children.

>

> Fada died bragging about my career success to certain people outside

the FOO (where his bragging would have maximum ego impact for him) while

simultaneously telling the FOO (where his self pitying whining would have

maximum ego impact for him) that I was so busy " getting ahead at work " that I

didn't care he was dying.I could not placate that man's disease with

" success " ,only have him use it for his own needs,basically to feed his disease.

>

> When I was in my early twenties nada let me know that she was

disappointed in me because I hadn't yet published the great novel she expected

of me (she wanted me to be a writer to fulfill *her* literary ambitions--never

mind what an enormous and daunting task that is; never mind if trying to do that

would have dstroyed me at the time)---anyway---she told me during that

" conversation " in a bitter tone, " I wanted a daughter who would grow up to date

the captain of the football team and be the head cheerleader,instead I got a

seven year old vegetarian Marxist.Even then,I knew you were never going to be

the daughter I wanted.... "

>

> First of all,what if I *had* been the head cheerleader? That's what

she had been.There is no way she would have tolerated that without feeling so

threatened she needed to trump me somehow,cut me down to size,make me

suffer.There can only be *one* head cheerleader--and that is nada! I never *was*

the freaking daughter she " wanted " ,not even when I was a baby.And I never would

have been because her " wanting " is all based on delusions of her own grandeur

that she'd never,ever allow me to best.Even her whining about it was a kind of

ego trip.

>

> (And I never was a " Marxist " .I did go through a phase around age seven

of wanting to foment a revolution but only because I wanted everyone in the

world to be equal and happy--something a nada could never understand! I stopped

eating meat for the same reasons.I felt like only idealism could save my

sanity...)

>

> For years,into my thirties,I did wonder if had I been the rah rah rah

perky sunshiny cheerleader type that my nada " wanted " me to be,if that would

have made " everything " better.If,by being able to truly be nada's fantasy

daughter,that would have somehow absolved us both.But of what? If both her " mini

me " fantasies and her resentment were issuing from her disorder,then there could

be no absolution.Because the disorder itself would still be there,bottom feeding

constantly.

>

> We can't fix them.We can't fix this.No matter what they say.Their

" disappointment " in us is a desperate claim to normalcy on their part--it's

their mental illness that cheats them,not us.It cheats us,too.In their denial of

their disease they pummel us with the tragic symbolisms of their denial,such as

calling us thieves when the sad reality is that it is the illness that is

robbing them and robbing us of our mothers.

>

> I'm sorry you and your sister have had this kick in the gut,again.

>

>

>

> > Re: a reconfirmation that bpd is an intractable

and probably organic disorder

> >

> > Thanks you guys. Sometimes it just helps to know that there are other

people out there who know exactly what we're going through.

> >

> > I agree, Doug: it is as though we are experiencing a whole lifetime of a

parent with Alzheimers, in a way. I think personality disorder is a form of

dementia, I am convinced of it: their brains don't work right.

> >

> > This is when I really, really wish that Sister and I could just switch off

our emotions like a light-switch so that when nada acts up we could instantly

emotionally detach. Sister was more able to handle nada's less extreme ups and

downs and was determined to stick with her 'til the end, and nada was behaving

herself better there for a while... and then this. The vicious attack, the

unfounded and completely loony accusation that Sister is a " shark " and only

after nada's money.

> >

> > It hit Sister like a knife-stab to the heart; I have experienced those kinds

of attacks and accusations many times myself, so I know how she's feeling right

now.

> >

> > So, it may be that its necessary in our case for Sister to also go No

Contact for a while; in any case, Sister is very hurt right now and wants no

contact with nada. Nada may cycle back into better and more lucid behavior or

she may deteriorate. If nada does something that gets her taken to the

emergency room, she'll get an observation and psych evaluation. Sister knows

nada's regular doctors and her psychologist and lives close enough so that she

can consult them, if she wants to. Right now Sister doesn't want to, she

sounded depressed again.

> >

> > I think you are right Lynda, in that my nada's behaviors can be cyclical,

but the cycle is completely unpredictable. I realized as a child that my mommy

would be nice to me and happy sometimes, then she'd start picking at me and

criticizing me more and more often and more harshly, then she'd explode at me

and scream at me and hit me, then she'd be all calm again and nice again. And

that might happen all in one day or it might happen over a week; I could never

really know. And sometimes she'd just explode into a red-faced screaming

rage/tantrum out of the blue. (And it was always my fault, of course, because I

was such a bad, defective, disappointing, selfish, ungrateful child.)

> >

> > The fact that the attacks are so personal, so targeted to the individual, is

what makes it close to impossible for us to detach emotionally and just deal

with the behaviors objectively and dispassionately.

> >

> > If my mother were raving about Martians or talking dogs being out to steal

her money, that would be relatively easy to deal with. Its the " come close to

me, dearest child, so I can slap the living tar out of you " behaviors that

Sister and I just can't handle.

> >

> > And we can't handle accusations that we are trying to harm nada: trying to

steal from her or physically hurt her. We absolutely have to protect ourselves

from that.

> >

> > Neither Sister nor I have ever tried to harm our mother but she could really

hurt us with false accusations, even if they are obviously false. At least I

have made public statements (about 2 years ago) to both nada and her

psychologist at the same time that I want nothing to do with nada's finances and

please take my name off of any papers having to do with nada's bank accounts or

other financial instruments. I asked to be taken out of nada's will, but nada

refused. And I refuse to ever be alone with my nada again; I want witnesses

around if I ever visit her in person again. And I think Sister may be thinking

about handing over all her co-management responsibilities RE nada's financial

instruments to nada's sister, at this point, if our aunt is willing.

> >

> > Its a time of change and flux and stepping into the unknown.

> >

> > The only thing that seems really clear to me, though, is at the core of my

nada there is a real contempt for me and Sister. I believe that nada has always

felt that she as a mother was *supposed* to love her children, but her behavior

towards us over our lifetime shows that she struggled with that.

> >

> > I think that underneath it all nada has malignant narcissistic pd, which

explains her fantastically, cartoonishly unrealistic expectations of Sister and

me (and poor dad). It explains why we were always disappointing her no matter

how hard she pushed us to achieve. We failed her over and over again by not

being amazing child prodigies that would garner her fame and money, by not being

head cheerleaders or prom queens and not being brilliant enough to earn

scholarships, by not marrying rich, famous husbands, by not becoming famous in

our careers, etc.

> >

> > Just being kind of average and kind of successful and kind of ordinary was

never good enough.

> >

> > So, underneath nada's nice behaviors there was a simmering resentment. Nada

felt cheated out of the reflected glory she expected out of us; we were and are

lazy, stupid, ungrateful and selfish. And now, on top of that, we are

untrustworthy thieves. So those are the bedrock feelings that keep cropping up,

the true underlying feelings that get exposed over and over when nada can no

longer manage to keep up the semblance of loving and kind behaviors.

> >

> > Its just really so very sad.

> >

> > -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

Annie never never ever is enough! I' m successfully beyond nada imagination, and

I'm probably one of the few " celebrities " from my home town but for nada I'm

still a big failure. She ( of corse ) likes to shower herself with attention

from others when people talk about me and how they like my work But what she

really believes is that I made it in my life (probably) by pure mistake . She

still things that I'm on edge of being beggar because sooner or latter they will

discover the mistake and I won't get a job anymore Plus she thinks that I'm so

incompetent that it is absolutely impossible for me to survive in this world.

So she is convinced that sooner or latter I'll be beggar on the street.

But that doesn't matter annymore for me. She is trapped in her sick and ill

world.That is one of her perceptions together with other strange ones. What

really matters is how you see yourself and how people who really like you see

you. These are more healthy (save and kind) mirrors than nada's :-))

And about you page:

Your page is just GREAT!!!!! You already have such a deep knowledge and it is so

nice from you that you want to sher it with others. And you are such a

beautiful, worm, senzibile and intelligent and kind person you should really

have your blog and your forum. Your postes really helped me a lot and it such a

pleasure to read them because you really know how to put words together..:-)

But with the speed of my life and " free " time lett I can barely follow this

group..:-) But I promise - I see you there too from time to time.

Yenaine

> > >

> > > Annie

> > >

> > > It is brutal. Worse that Alzhiemers, for it doesnt just take the back

> > > end of life, but the whole experience.

> > >

> > >

> > > One of the most disheartening things is the ability of a BP, for no good

> > > reason that we can discern, to strike out viciously. No one can feel

> > > safe, and trusting with them, because an attack can come at any moment.

> > > I think of Sellers as Inspector Clouseau in the Pink Panther,

> > > instructing Cato to attack him without warning to hone his fighting

> > > skills. Well , we should all be Navy Seals.

> > >

> > > >

> > > > In our nada's case, it seems that the disease is intractable and is

> > > worsening with old age. It really does appear as though our nada is on

> > > the " borderline " between neurosis and psychosis. My nada is

> > > experiencing paranoia and delusions (even hallucinations?) more

> > > frequently now; Sister says that nada smells smells that aren't there

> > > and sees people that aren't there, and nada is now convinced that Sister

> > > is neglecting her and is after her money.

> > >

> > >

> > > My nada spiralled down badly in the last few years of her life.

> > > Gaslighting was always bad, and is, IMHO , a form of delusion on the

> > > part of the BP. But the last time I spoke to her she talked about a

> > > radio station coming out of her radiator, and some talk show host

> > > talking about blacks and gays all night and keeping her up. She was

> > > truly delusional. I found out , further, that she had been on Depakote,

> > > with is an anti seizure and anti psychotic med sometimes used in more

> > > pronounced cases of BP. She decided she should not take it, and stopped

> > > abruptly, which is a no no for psychotropic drugs.

> > >

> > > I would advise you and or your sis, or whoever has regular contact with

> > > her, to begin a daily journal of all that is done, and all she says. I

> > > would also consider contacting her Dr or T re her hallucinations.

> > >

> > > It is not easy. I wish I had easy answers for you, but I do not. Yes,

> > > pray for a cure or treatment.

> > >

> > > It is a horrible disease, that ravages not just the person afflicted,

> > > but, as we know all too well, those closest to them.

> > >

> > > Doug

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Annie never never ever is enough! I' m successfully beyond nada imagination, and

I'm probably one of the few " celebrities " from my home town but for nada I'm

still a big failure. She ( of corse ) likes to shower herself with attention

from others when people talk about me and how they like my work But what she

really believes is that I made it in my life (probably) by pure mistake . She

still things that I'm on edge of being beggar because sooner or latter they will

discover the mistake and I won't get a job anymore Plus she thinks that I'm so

incompetent that it is absolutely impossible for me to survive in this world.

So she is convinced that sooner or latter I'll be beggar on the street.

But that doesn't matter annymore for me. She is trapped in her sick and ill

world.That is one of her perceptions together with other strange ones. What

really matters is how you see yourself and how people who really like you see

you. These are more healthy (save and kind) mirrors than nada's :-))

And about you page:

Your page is just GREAT!!!!! You already have such a deep knowledge and it is so

nice from you that you want to sher it with others. And you are such a

beautiful, worm, senzibile and intelligent and kind person you should really

have your blog and your forum. Your postes really helped me a lot and it such a

pleasure to read them because you really know how to put words together..:-)

But with the speed of my life and " free " time lett I can barely follow this

group..:-) But I promise - I see you there too from time to time.

Yenaine

> > >

> > > Annie

> > >

> > > It is brutal. Worse that Alzhiemers, for it doesnt just take the back

> > > end of life, but the whole experience.

> > >

> > >

> > > One of the most disheartening things is the ability of a BP, for no good

> > > reason that we can discern, to strike out viciously. No one can feel

> > > safe, and trusting with them, because an attack can come at any moment.

> > > I think of Sellers as Inspector Clouseau in the Pink Panther,

> > > instructing Cato to attack him without warning to hone his fighting

> > > skills. Well , we should all be Navy Seals.

> > >

> > > >

> > > > In our nada's case, it seems that the disease is intractable and is

> > > worsening with old age. It really does appear as though our nada is on

> > > the " borderline " between neurosis and psychosis. My nada is

> > > experiencing paranoia and delusions (even hallucinations?) more

> > > frequently now; Sister says that nada smells smells that aren't there

> > > and sees people that aren't there, and nada is now convinced that Sister

> > > is neglecting her and is after her money.

> > >

> > >

> > > My nada spiralled down badly in the last few years of her life.

> > > Gaslighting was always bad, and is, IMHO , a form of delusion on the

> > > part of the BP. But the last time I spoke to her she talked about a

> > > radio station coming out of her radiator, and some talk show host

> > > talking about blacks and gays all night and keeping her up. She was

> > > truly delusional. I found out , further, that she had been on Depakote,

> > > with is an anti seizure and anti psychotic med sometimes used in more

> > > pronounced cases of BP. She decided she should not take it, and stopped

> > > abruptly, which is a no no for psychotropic drugs.

> > >

> > > I would advise you and or your sis, or whoever has regular contact with

> > > her, to begin a daily journal of all that is done, and all she says. I

> > > would also consider contacting her Dr or T re her hallucinations.

> > >

> > > It is not easy. I wish I had easy answers for you, but I do not. Yes,

> > > pray for a cure or treatment.

> > >

> > > It is a horrible disease, that ravages not just the person afflicted,

> > > but, as we know all too well, those closest to them.

> > >

> > > Doug

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Annie never never ever is enough! I' m successfully beyond nada imagination, and

I'm probably one of the few " celebrities " from my home town but for nada I'm

still a big failure. She ( of corse ) likes to shower herself with attention

from others when people talk about me and how they like my work But what she

really believes is that I made it in my life (probably) by pure mistake . She

still things that I'm on edge of being beggar because sooner or latter they will

discover the mistake and I won't get a job anymore Plus she thinks that I'm so

incompetent that it is absolutely impossible for me to survive in this world.

So she is convinced that sooner or latter I'll be beggar on the street.

But that doesn't matter annymore for me. She is trapped in her sick and ill

world.That is one of her perceptions together with other strange ones. What

really matters is how you see yourself and how people who really like you see

you. These are more healthy (save and kind) mirrors than nada's :-))

And about you page:

Your page is just GREAT!!!!! You already have such a deep knowledge and it is so

nice from you that you want to sher it with others. And you are such a

beautiful, worm, senzibile and intelligent and kind person you should really

have your blog and your forum. Your postes really helped me a lot and it such a

pleasure to read them because you really know how to put words together..:-)

But with the speed of my life and " free " time lett I can barely follow this

group..:-) But I promise - I see you there too from time to time.

Yenaine

> > >

> > > Annie

> > >

> > > It is brutal. Worse that Alzhiemers, for it doesnt just take the back

> > > end of life, but the whole experience.

> > >

> > >

> > > One of the most disheartening things is the ability of a BP, for no good

> > > reason that we can discern, to strike out viciously. No one can feel

> > > safe, and trusting with them, because an attack can come at any moment.

> > > I think of Sellers as Inspector Clouseau in the Pink Panther,

> > > instructing Cato to attack him without warning to hone his fighting

> > > skills. Well , we should all be Navy Seals.

> > >

> > > >

> > > > In our nada's case, it seems that the disease is intractable and is

> > > worsening with old age. It really does appear as though our nada is on

> > > the " borderline " between neurosis and psychosis. My nada is

> > > experiencing paranoia and delusions (even hallucinations?) more

> > > frequently now; Sister says that nada smells smells that aren't there

> > > and sees people that aren't there, and nada is now convinced that Sister

> > > is neglecting her and is after her money.

> > >

> > >

> > > My nada spiralled down badly in the last few years of her life.

> > > Gaslighting was always bad, and is, IMHO , a form of delusion on the

> > > part of the BP. But the last time I spoke to her she talked about a

> > > radio station coming out of her radiator, and some talk show host

> > > talking about blacks and gays all night and keeping her up. She was

> > > truly delusional. I found out , further, that she had been on Depakote,

> > > with is an anti seizure and anti psychotic med sometimes used in more

> > > pronounced cases of BP. She decided she should not take it, and stopped

> > > abruptly, which is a no no for psychotropic drugs.

> > >

> > > I would advise you and or your sis, or whoever has regular contact with

> > > her, to begin a daily journal of all that is done, and all she says. I

> > > would also consider contacting her Dr or T re her hallucinations.

> > >

> > > It is not easy. I wish I had easy answers for you, but I do not. Yes,

> > > pray for a cure or treatment.

> > >

> > > It is a horrible disease, that ravages not just the person afflicted,

> > > but, as we know all too well, those closest to them.

> > >

> > > Doug

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >