Re: Frustrated With the BPD Books that say....

December 20, 2010

I think I found what you are talking about. There is a book called

Overcoming Borderling Personality Disorder, by Porr, MA.

Excerpted from " An Afterward to Clinicians " the author says, in part

Avoid boundaries, limits, contracts, and tough love. These methods are

not effective with people with BPD. Be sure that families understand

that boundaries are generally viewed as punishment by people with BPD.

Be sure they understand how to change behavior by reinforcement,

punishment, shaping, and extinction so that they do not reinforce

maladaptive behaviors.

She also makes the point in the afterward that 70 % of BP s who enter

treatment drop out. Also, if you read carefully in the afterward, she

talks several times about excluding parents who are paying for the

therapy from the process.

In part of the text, she points out that these are DBT skills taught to

families, as an adjunct to therapy using DBT for the BP. This assumes

to some extent, the willingness and ability of the BP to be involved in

treatment.

She describes families of BP s as being in a state of " perpetual

traumatic stress disorder " . I like that! Sort of captures our

dynamic.

This approach assumes a family being involved with a loved one with BPD

who is participating in treatment, and in this case the success of the

treatment is primary, and the healing and coping of the family is

secondary.

I admit my first response when reading the post is this bitch must be

out of her mind to write a book like that! Can I get an amen?

But, in reading a bit more, I think her statement that families should

not use boundaries is based on the very specific situation in which the

BP is in DBT treatment, the family is trained in DBT techniques, and is

informed and an actual participant in the therapeutic process.

We would, I think, all love and welcome the chance to try these

techniques and see our Nada heal and become some semblance of normal.

We DO understand that they have a debilitating disorder. But, in that

we are children of BP s, we were and are never in the situation where we

can insist, or even beg, participation or information about their

therapy. Most of us are not in a place where Marsha Mclinahan or some

other DBT practitioner is available.

If these things would work, and give us a chance of a having a mother ,

instead of a nada, we would try. I would have tried.

Still, this is not our situation. Nada is an adult and can choose, and

rarely chooses anything that makes her deal with her stuff.

Our use of boundaries is NOT what this author is talking about, since it

is not a part of Nada s changing and healing. If we were dealing with a

BP child, this might be appropriate advice. But our boundaries are

about giving up, deciding that Nada is not about to change, and doing

the best we can to find a healthy life for ourselves.

http://www.amazon.com/reader/0195379586?_encoding=UTF8 & page=32#reader_01\

95379586

Here is the book on Amazon, and you can read the same excerpts I did.

I don think she was talking about our situation. But if she were, I

would default to " What are you TALKING about, bitch! "

Doug

December 20, 2010

You know, one of the books was probably hers. I remember P and that's

about it. Yeah, there is no way you'd tell a rape victim to shut up and color,

learn how to talk to the rapist and just deal. So, why do victims of BPs have

to shut up and color, let the abuser stay in their life to do more damage? It

makes no sense. I realize I am a very sensitive person and no matter that I've

been studying spirituality and the ego for 20 years, I am still hardpressed not

to take on some pain when nada goes off on me. That is why I chose NC. It

wasn't about hurting her, it was about protecting me and my kids and I'll change

my number and move forever to keep from suffering her abuse a minute.

> >

> > The non-BPD should NEVER set boundaries and NEVER use tough love because you

are only wounding someone who cannot help it. So, this approach to me is

abusive. To me, it is the same as telling the victim of rape to shut up and

color and let her attacker do it over and over again and she isn't entitled to

rights or safety or sanity because the rapist obviously has a disorder.

> >

> > Granted, BPDs have it tough - no doubt about it but to put more blame on the

non-BPD than the BPD already has and make it absolutely impossible for them to

protect themselves just makes me incredulous. I wonder if those individuals

have ever suffered physical abuse from nada because they didn't tip toe quietly

enough through the house or shred them verbally because they left a speck on the

dish they just washed at 8 years old or humilated and invalidated them when they

cried out to another adult for help from abuse and nada intervened and convinced

that adult that they were just a sympathy seeking pathological liar. To me,

such actions define abuse and abusers do not get to continue to abuse their

victims. By requiring that we must stand still and not take insult (when we try

but always do at some level) we just create more psychoses for the psychiatrists

to untangle. I have suffered Post-Traumatic Event Syndrome nada episodes

playing over and over in my head, hyper-vigilant thoughts for months, never

knowing from which direction the next attack was going to come. My only safety

and sanity was to get away from her so I could be emotionally safe, where her

energy vampirism could not deplete me, where her words could no longer harm me.

I suffered guilt for the longest time and I read these words by an author today

- " You cannot set boundaries with a BPD because they don't work and it will just

hurt them further. " OMG! WTF? Seriously?! Wow, REALLY? You just said that?

Okay, so back to the rapist...he might be mentally and physically harmed in jail

so you bad evil victims, just shut up and color, okay?

> >

> > Okay, I'm not really mad but I'm frustrated that just because my nada has a

personality disorder, I'm supposed to excuse her insidious, painful, vile and

vengeful emotional and verbal abuse? I don't care who you are or what you

have...I've got a lot on my plate being a single mother of 4 kids, a demanding

job and lots of plates always in the air. I will not tolerate any form of abuse

in my life for any reason.

> >

> > What kind of insensitive person would require a victim to shut up and color?

I don't get it. BPD diagnosis is not an excuse and a shield to hide abuse

behind. Just like alcoholism...when the alcoholics get tired of the

consequences in their lives, they are told to go get help and family members are

never manipulated by programs into staying when they've been abused or hurt.

Alcoholism is also called a disease and it causes great harm to its host but is

no excuse for bad behavior. Lots of personality disorders exist but should not

excuse people from harm. Okay - so wait, I have a strong bill-paying aversion

that runs deep and connects to a deep seated childhood fear of poverty and so

must repeatedly scream at, threaten and abuse my creditors even though I charge

my accounts up like the best of them. How long do you think my case will last

in court? Get help and knock off your bad behavior is going to be the outcome.

After lawsuits for bad behavior, of course.

> >

> > I am empathetic towards those with personality disorders, absolutely and I

include so many in my prayers every night but I get to make choices in life

despite my fears just as they do. Abusive behavior is NOT okay. Using a

diagnosis to excuse bad behavior, is not okay. BPDs should be understood,

absolutely, not engaging in behavior that would be purposely hurtful to them -

right! I get that, no way, wouldn't even dream of it but if setting a boundary

to protect myself is necessary in my opinion, it's done and any pain I cause is

not intentional. It is a matter of emotional self-preservation.

> >

> > Okay, my soap box is back under the bed now. LOL

> >

>

December 20, 2010