Guest guest Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 I am new here too, but if I'm learning anything it's that you can't ever trust a BP to do anything but be a BP. If you try the email exercise and she breaks the rules at least you would have something concrete in the form of an email. If it were me I'd try it but the minute she broke the rules I'd opt and explain she broke the rules, but that could lead to more downward spiraling. Only you know your nada and what to expect it. One thing we can all be sure of sooner or later there'll be a downward spiral. Good luck making that decision. Kay > > > Hello, I'm new to this (any) group and wanted to get involved because > just recently I came to the understanding that my mother has BPD and am > looking for some guidance and of course support from specialists and > other " Nons " . > > A major fall-out happened about 6 months ago where I tried to lay out > some clearly stated boundaries for my mother, as directed by my > counsellor, and it has pretty much cut-off all communication between her > & I and has caused serious relationship damage between my father and > myself. He seems to have changed over the past year or so and has > fervently taken her side, to the detriment of the relationship between > him and every other member of our family (immediate and extended). She > had already damaged those relationships over the years. > > Last week I got an email from her (signed by both) which proposed that > all three of us: " look far into the past to remember good things about > each other. Then we can send an email with a positive statement twice a > week. That is, you send two to Dad, and two to me, and we each send two > to you. These positive statements will be the only thing in that > email......not combined with any news. Any news can be sent separately. > The positive statements will not be commented on nor challenged by any > of us. " They stated that they would like to try this and reevaluate it > after two months. She has intentionally kept my husband out of it, and a > major issue I have with her is how she has 'demonised' my husband. > > I encourage the idea that my mother tries to focus on the " good " about > me, but without proper counselling and medication, I fear this is just > an empty exercise and that she is in denial-not focused on the real > issue at hand. This feels like " another dance, dressed up differently > and in a different location " . I fear she is going to ruminate on what > she had or liked about me in the past and cannot have now and will > spiral downwards, quickly. > > Am I over-reacting? Should I trust this and play along? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 I am new here too, but if I'm learning anything it's that you can't ever trust a BP to do anything but be a BP. If you try the email exercise and she breaks the rules at least you would have something concrete in the form of an email. If it were me I'd try it but the minute she broke the rules I'd opt and explain she broke the rules, but that could lead to more downward spiraling. Only you know your nada and what to expect it. One thing we can all be sure of sooner or later there'll be a downward spiral. Good luck making that decision. Kay > > > Hello, I'm new to this (any) group and wanted to get involved because > just recently I came to the understanding that my mother has BPD and am > looking for some guidance and of course support from specialists and > other " Nons " . > > A major fall-out happened about 6 months ago where I tried to lay out > some clearly stated boundaries for my mother, as directed by my > counsellor, and it has pretty much cut-off all communication between her > & I and has caused serious relationship damage between my father and > myself. He seems to have changed over the past year or so and has > fervently taken her side, to the detriment of the relationship between > him and every other member of our family (immediate and extended). She > had already damaged those relationships over the years. > > Last week I got an email from her (signed by both) which proposed that > all three of us: " look far into the past to remember good things about > each other. Then we can send an email with a positive statement twice a > week. That is, you send two to Dad, and two to me, and we each send two > to you. These positive statements will be the only thing in that > email......not combined with any news. Any news can be sent separately. > The positive statements will not be commented on nor challenged by any > of us. " They stated that they would like to try this and reevaluate it > after two months. She has intentionally kept my husband out of it, and a > major issue I have with her is how she has 'demonised' my husband. > > I encourage the idea that my mother tries to focus on the " good " about > me, but without proper counselling and medication, I fear this is just > an empty exercise and that she is in denial-not focused on the real > issue at hand. This feels like " another dance, dressed up differently > and in a different location " . I fear she is going to ruminate on what > she had or liked about me in the past and cannot have now and will > spiral downwards, quickly. > > Am I over-reacting? Should I trust this and play along? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 I am new here too, but if I'm learning anything it's that you can't ever trust a BP to do anything but be a BP. If you try the email exercise and she breaks the rules at least you would have something concrete in the form of an email. If it were me I'd try it but the minute she broke the rules I'd opt and explain she broke the rules, but that could lead to more downward spiraling. Only you know your nada and what to expect it. One thing we can all be sure of sooner or later there'll be a downward spiral. Good luck making that decision. Kay > > > Hello, I'm new to this (any) group and wanted to get involved because > just recently I came to the understanding that my mother has BPD and am > looking for some guidance and of course support from specialists and > other " Nons " . > > A major fall-out happened about 6 months ago where I tried to lay out > some clearly stated boundaries for my mother, as directed by my > counsellor, and it has pretty much cut-off all communication between her > & I and has caused serious relationship damage between my father and > myself. He seems to have changed over the past year or so and has > fervently taken her side, to the detriment of the relationship between > him and every other member of our family (immediate and extended). She > had already damaged those relationships over the years. > > Last week I got an email from her (signed by both) which proposed that > all three of us: " look far into the past to remember good things about > each other. Then we can send an email with a positive statement twice a > week. That is, you send two to Dad, and two to me, and we each send two > to you. These positive statements will be the only thing in that > email......not combined with any news. Any news can be sent separately. > The positive statements will not be commented on nor challenged by any > of us. " They stated that they would like to try this and reevaluate it > after two months. She has intentionally kept my husband out of it, and a > major issue I have with her is how she has 'demonised' my husband. > > I encourage the idea that my mother tries to focus on the " good " about > me, but without proper counselling and medication, I fear this is just > an empty exercise and that she is in denial-not focused on the real > issue at hand. This feels like " another dance, dressed up differently > and in a different location " . I fear she is going to ruminate on what > she had or liked about me in the past and cannot have now and will > spiral downwards, quickly. > > Am I over-reacting? Should I trust this and play along? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Hi Mexmouse, Welcome to the Group. Hmmm. This sounds to me like your mother did NOT like it when you took the initiative to set up some boundaries with her; I'm guessing that she is used to being the dominant one: the Queen who makes the rules in your family of origin. So instead of being understanding and agreeing to abide by your boundaries, she punished you/cut you off. Her recent proposal that you all do this " let's share happy times *from the past* " thing is an attempt to ignore and dodge the boundaries you want to establish regarding her *current* unacceptable behaviors, and re-establish her dominance. So perhaps you could counter by proposing that IF your mother shows that she is willing to abide by the boundaries you want to establish, you might be willing to try this " let's share happy times from the past " thing. But I suggest that you run this idea by your counselor, who is more familiar with your situation and can give you more targeted feedback. Just a possibility for you to consider, and take or leave as it suits you. -Annie > > > Hello, I'm new to this (any) group and wanted to get involved because > just recently I came to the understanding that my mother has BPD and am > looking for some guidance and of course support from specialists and > other " Nons " . > > A major fall-out happened about 6 months ago where I tried to lay out > some clearly stated boundaries for my mother, as directed by my > counsellor, and it has pretty much cut-off all communication between her > & I and has caused serious relationship damage between my father and > myself. He seems to have changed over the past year or so and has > fervently taken her side, to the detriment of the relationship between > him and every other member of our family (immediate and extended). She > had already damaged those relationships over the years. > > Last week I got an email from her (signed by both) which proposed that > all three of us: " look far into the past to remember good things about > each other. Then we can send an email with a positive statement twice a > week. That is, you send two to Dad, and two to me, and we each send two > to you. These positive statements will be the only thing in that > email......not combined with any news. Any news can be sent separately. > The positive statements will not be commented on nor challenged by any > of us. " They stated that they would like to try this and reevaluate it > after two months. She has intentionally kept my husband out of it, and a > major issue I have with her is how she has 'demonised' my husband. > > I encourage the idea that my mother tries to focus on the " good " about > me, but without proper counselling and medication, I fear this is just > an empty exercise and that she is in denial-not focused on the real > issue at hand. This feels like " another dance, dressed up differently > and in a different location " . I fear she is going to ruminate on what > she had or liked about me in the past and cannot have now and will > spiral downwards, quickly. > > Am I over-reacting? Should I trust this and play along? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Hi, welcome! For me personally, I would be offended that someone else was trying to order me to basically send them compliments. It sounds like a very controlling tactic to me - perhaps she is trying to reestablish dominance as Annie said? I wouldn't be able to do that. If I felt like sending a nice thought, I'd do it my way, on my time schedule and combine it with any other thoughts I wanted to include. But I have a second problem with her demands. Every BPD is different. Some surviving children have good memories of early childhood and then all hell breaks loose when they start to gain independence. Not me. My mother 'gave me to my dad " the day she brought me home from the hospital. she painted me black from the time I was a day or two old. I don't have one single good memory. That's why I went NC so many years ago way before I learned about personality disorders. She was harassing me and I couldn't come up with a single positive memory. Just one pleasant memory and I might have tried again. Anyway, welcome, but that's my 2 cents. I don't like being told what to do, how to do it and by when by someone who isn't paying me a salary! (And even with the salary I don't really like it, but at least there is an incentive Good luck and welcome. I'm sorry you have to be here. On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 11:58 PM, anuria67854 wrote: > > > Hi Mexmouse, > > Welcome to the Group. > > Hmmm. This sounds to me like your mother did NOT like it when you took the > initiative to set up some boundaries with her; I'm guessing that she is used > to being the dominant one: the Queen who makes the rules in your family of > origin. So instead of being understanding and agreeing to abide by your > boundaries, she punished you/cut you off. > > Her recent proposal that you all do this " let's share happy times *from the > past* " thing is an attempt to ignore and dodge the boundaries you want to > establish regarding her *current* unacceptable behaviors, and re-establish > her dominance. > > So perhaps you could counter by proposing that IF your mother shows that > she is willing to abide by the boundaries you want to establish, you might > be willing to try this " let's share happy times from the past " thing. > > But I suggest that you run this idea by your counselor, who is more > familiar with your situation and can give you more targeted feedback. > > Just a possibility for you to consider, and take or leave as it suits you. > > -Annie > > > > > > > > Hello, I'm new to this (any) group and wanted to get involved because > > just recently I came to the understanding that my mother has BPD and am > > looking for some guidance and of course support from specialists and > > other " Nons " . > > > > A major fall-out happened about 6 months ago where I tried to lay out > > some clearly stated boundaries for my mother, as directed by my > > counsellor, and it has pretty much cut-off all communication between her > > & I and has caused serious relationship damage between my father and > > myself. He seems to have changed over the past year or so and has > > fervently taken her side, to the detriment of the relationship between > > him and every other member of our family (immediate and extended). She > > had already damaged those relationships over the years. > > > > Last week I got an email from her (signed by both) which proposed that > > all three of us: " look far into the past to remember good things about > > each other. Then we can send an email with a positive statement twice a > > week. That is, you send two to Dad, and two to me, and we each send two > > to you. These positive statements will be the only thing in that > > email......not combined with any news. Any news can be sent separately. > > The positive statements will not be commented on nor challenged by any > > of us. " They stated that they would like to try this and reevaluate it > > after two months. She has intentionally kept my husband out of it, and a > > major issue I have with her is how she has 'demonised' my husband. > > > > I encourage the idea that my mother tries to focus on the " good " about > > me, but without proper counselling and medication, I fear this is just > > an empty exercise and that she is in denial-not focused on the real > > issue at hand. This feels like " another dance, dressed up differently > > and in a different location " . I fear she is going to ruminate on what > > she had or liked about me in the past and cannot have now and will > > spiral downwards, quickly. > > > > Am I over-reacting? Should I trust this and play along? > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Hi, welcome! For me personally, I would be offended that someone else was trying to order me to basically send them compliments. It sounds like a very controlling tactic to me - perhaps she is trying to reestablish dominance as Annie said? I wouldn't be able to do that. If I felt like sending a nice thought, I'd do it my way, on my time schedule and combine it with any other thoughts I wanted to include. But I have a second problem with her demands. Every BPD is different. Some surviving children have good memories of early childhood and then all hell breaks loose when they start to gain independence. Not me. My mother 'gave me to my dad " the day she brought me home from the hospital. she painted me black from the time I was a day or two old. I don't have one single good memory. That's why I went NC so many years ago way before I learned about personality disorders. She was harassing me and I couldn't come up with a single positive memory. Just one pleasant memory and I might have tried again. Anyway, welcome, but that's my 2 cents. I don't like being told what to do, how to do it and by when by someone who isn't paying me a salary! (And even with the salary I don't really like it, but at least there is an incentive Good luck and welcome. I'm sorry you have to be here. On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 11:58 PM, anuria67854 wrote: > > > Hi Mexmouse, > > Welcome to the Group. > > Hmmm. This sounds to me like your mother did NOT like it when you took the > initiative to set up some boundaries with her; I'm guessing that she is used > to being the dominant one: the Queen who makes the rules in your family of > origin. So instead of being understanding and agreeing to abide by your > boundaries, she punished you/cut you off. > > Her recent proposal that you all do this " let's share happy times *from the > past* " thing is an attempt to ignore and dodge the boundaries you want to > establish regarding her *current* unacceptable behaviors, and re-establish > her dominance. > > So perhaps you could counter by proposing that IF your mother shows that > she is willing to abide by the boundaries you want to establish, you might > be willing to try this " let's share happy times from the past " thing. > > But I suggest that you run this idea by your counselor, who is more > familiar with your situation and can give you more targeted feedback. > > Just a possibility for you to consider, and take or leave as it suits you. > > -Annie > > > > > > > > Hello, I'm new to this (any) group and wanted to get involved because > > just recently I came to the understanding that my mother has BPD and am > > looking for some guidance and of course support from specialists and > > other " Nons " . > > > > A major fall-out happened about 6 months ago where I tried to lay out > > some clearly stated boundaries for my mother, as directed by my > > counsellor, and it has pretty much cut-off all communication between her > > & I and has caused serious relationship damage between my father and > > myself. He seems to have changed over the past year or so and has > > fervently taken her side, to the detriment of the relationship between > > him and every other member of our family (immediate and extended). She > > had already damaged those relationships over the years. > > > > Last week I got an email from her (signed by both) which proposed that > > all three of us: " look far into the past to remember good things about > > each other. Then we can send an email with a positive statement twice a > > week. That is, you send two to Dad, and two to me, and we each send two > > to you. These positive statements will be the only thing in that > > email......not combined with any news. Any news can be sent separately. > > The positive statements will not be commented on nor challenged by any > > of us. " They stated that they would like to try this and reevaluate it > > after two months. She has intentionally kept my husband out of it, and a > > major issue I have with her is how she has 'demonised' my husband. > > > > I encourage the idea that my mother tries to focus on the " good " about > > me, but without proper counselling and medication, I fear this is just > > an empty exercise and that she is in denial-not focused on the real > > issue at hand. This feels like " another dance, dressed up differently > > and in a different location " . I fear she is going to ruminate on what > > she had or liked about me in the past and cannot have now and will > > spiral downwards, quickly. > > > > Am I over-reacting? Should I trust this and play along? > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Hi, welcome! For me personally, I would be offended that someone else was trying to order me to basically send them compliments. It sounds like a very controlling tactic to me - perhaps she is trying to reestablish dominance as Annie said? I wouldn't be able to do that. If I felt like sending a nice thought, I'd do it my way, on my time schedule and combine it with any other thoughts I wanted to include. But I have a second problem with her demands. Every BPD is different. Some surviving children have good memories of early childhood and then all hell breaks loose when they start to gain independence. Not me. My mother 'gave me to my dad " the day she brought me home from the hospital. she painted me black from the time I was a day or two old. I don't have one single good memory. That's why I went NC so many years ago way before I learned about personality disorders. She was harassing me and I couldn't come up with a single positive memory. Just one pleasant memory and I might have tried again. Anyway, welcome, but that's my 2 cents. I don't like being told what to do, how to do it and by when by someone who isn't paying me a salary! (And even with the salary I don't really like it, but at least there is an incentive Good luck and welcome. I'm sorry you have to be here. On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 11:58 PM, anuria67854 wrote: > > > Hi Mexmouse, > > Welcome to the Group. > > Hmmm. This sounds to me like your mother did NOT like it when you took the > initiative to set up some boundaries with her; I'm guessing that she is used > to being the dominant one: the Queen who makes the rules in your family of > origin. So instead of being understanding and agreeing to abide by your > boundaries, she punished you/cut you off. > > Her recent proposal that you all do this " let's share happy times *from the > past* " thing is an attempt to ignore and dodge the boundaries you want to > establish regarding her *current* unacceptable behaviors, and re-establish > her dominance. > > So perhaps you could counter by proposing that IF your mother shows that > she is willing to abide by the boundaries you want to establish, you might > be willing to try this " let's share happy times from the past " thing. > > But I suggest that you run this idea by your counselor, who is more > familiar with your situation and can give you more targeted feedback. > > Just a possibility for you to consider, and take or leave as it suits you. > > -Annie > > > > > > > > Hello, I'm new to this (any) group and wanted to get involved because > > just recently I came to the understanding that my mother has BPD and am > > looking for some guidance and of course support from specialists and > > other " Nons " . > > > > A major fall-out happened about 6 months ago where I tried to lay out > > some clearly stated boundaries for my mother, as directed by my > > counsellor, and it has pretty much cut-off all communication between her > > & I and has caused serious relationship damage between my father and > > myself. He seems to have changed over the past year or so and has > > fervently taken her side, to the detriment of the relationship between > > him and every other member of our family (immediate and extended). She > > had already damaged those relationships over the years. > > > > Last week I got an email from her (signed by both) which proposed that > > all three of us: " look far into the past to remember good things about > > each other. Then we can send an email with a positive statement twice a > > week. That is, you send two to Dad, and two to me, and we each send two > > to you. These positive statements will be the only thing in that > > email......not combined with any news. Any news can be sent separately. > > The positive statements will not be commented on nor challenged by any > > of us. " They stated that they would like to try this and reevaluate it > > after two months. She has intentionally kept my husband out of it, and a > > major issue I have with her is how she has 'demonised' my husband. > > > > I encourage the idea that my mother tries to focus on the " good " about > > me, but without proper counselling and medication, I fear this is just > > an empty exercise and that she is in denial-not focused on the real > > issue at hand. This feels like " another dance, dressed up differently > > and in a different location " . I fear she is going to ruminate on what > > she had or liked about me in the past and cannot have now and will > > spiral downwards, quickly. > > > > Am I over-reacting? Should I trust this and play along? > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Thanks for your feedback, and you're right. I would have a concrete example of her breaking the rules (again....). It's not really a matter of " if " , is it? It's a matter of " when " ! > > > > > > Hello, I'm new to this (any) group and wanted to get involved because > > just recently I came to the understanding that my mother has BPD and am > > looking for some guidance and of course support from specialists and > > other " Nons " . > > > > A major fall-out happened about 6 months ago where I tried to lay out > > some clearly stated boundaries for my mother, as directed by my > > counsellor, and it has pretty much cut-off all communication between her > > & I and has caused serious relationship damage between my father and > > myself. He seems to have changed over the past year or so and has > > fervently taken her side, to the detriment of the relationship between > > him and every other member of our family (immediate and extended). She > > had already damaged those relationships over the years. > > > > Last week I got an email from her (signed by both) which proposed that > > all three of us: " look far into the past to remember good things about > > each other. Then we can send an email with a positive statement twice a > > week. That is, you send two to Dad, and two to me, and we each send two > > to you. These positive statements will be the only thing in that > > email......not combined with any news. Any news can be sent separately. > > The positive statements will not be commented on nor challenged by any > > of us. " They stated that they would like to try this and reevaluate it > > after two months. She has intentionally kept my husband out of it, and a > > major issue I have with her is how she has 'demonised' my husband. > > > > I encourage the idea that my mother tries to focus on the " good " about > > me, but without proper counselling and medication, I fear this is just > > an empty exercise and that she is in denial-not focused on the real > > issue at hand. This feels like " another dance, dressed up differently > > and in a different location " . I fear she is going to ruminate on what > > she had or liked about me in the past and cannot have now and will > > spiral downwards, quickly. > > > > Am I over-reacting? Should I trust this and play along? > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Thanks for your feedback, and you're right. I would have a concrete example of her breaking the rules (again....). It's not really a matter of " if " , is it? It's a matter of " when " ! > > > > > > Hello, I'm new to this (any) group and wanted to get involved because > > just recently I came to the understanding that my mother has BPD and am > > looking for some guidance and of course support from specialists and > > other " Nons " . > > > > A major fall-out happened about 6 months ago where I tried to lay out > > some clearly stated boundaries for my mother, as directed by my > > counsellor, and it has pretty much cut-off all communication between her > > & I and has caused serious relationship damage between my father and > > myself. He seems to have changed over the past year or so and has > > fervently taken her side, to the detriment of the relationship between > > him and every other member of our family (immediate and extended). She > > had already damaged those relationships over the years. > > > > Last week I got an email from her (signed by both) which proposed that > > all three of us: " look far into the past to remember good things about > > each other. Then we can send an email with a positive statement twice a > > week. That is, you send two to Dad, and two to me, and we each send two > > to you. These positive statements will be the only thing in that > > email......not combined with any news. Any news can be sent separately. > > The positive statements will not be commented on nor challenged by any > > of us. " They stated that they would like to try this and reevaluate it > > after two months. She has intentionally kept my husband out of it, and a > > major issue I have with her is how she has 'demonised' my husband. > > > > I encourage the idea that my mother tries to focus on the " good " about > > me, but without proper counselling and medication, I fear this is just > > an empty exercise and that she is in denial-not focused on the real > > issue at hand. This feels like " another dance, dressed up differently > > and in a different location " . I fear she is going to ruminate on what > > she had or liked about me in the past and cannot have now and will > > spiral downwards, quickly. > > > > Am I over-reacting? Should I trust this and play along? > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Thanks for your feedback, and you're right. I would have a concrete example of her breaking the rules (again....). It's not really a matter of " if " , is it? It's a matter of " when " ! > > > > > > Hello, I'm new to this (any) group and wanted to get involved because > > just recently I came to the understanding that my mother has BPD and am > > looking for some guidance and of course support from specialists and > > other " Nons " . > > > > A major fall-out happened about 6 months ago where I tried to lay out > > some clearly stated boundaries for my mother, as directed by my > > counsellor, and it has pretty much cut-off all communication between her > > & I and has caused serious relationship damage between my father and > > myself. He seems to have changed over the past year or so and has > > fervently taken her side, to the detriment of the relationship between > > him and every other member of our family (immediate and extended). She > > had already damaged those relationships over the years. > > > > Last week I got an email from her (signed by both) which proposed that > > all three of us: " look far into the past to remember good things about > > each other. Then we can send an email with a positive statement twice a > > week. That is, you send two to Dad, and two to me, and we each send two > > to you. These positive statements will be the only thing in that > > email......not combined with any news. Any news can be sent separately. > > The positive statements will not be commented on nor challenged by any > > of us. " They stated that they would like to try this and reevaluate it > > after two months. She has intentionally kept my husband out of it, and a > > major issue I have with her is how she has 'demonised' my husband. > > > > I encourage the idea that my mother tries to focus on the " good " about > > me, but without proper counselling and medication, I fear this is just > > an empty exercise and that she is in denial-not focused on the real > > issue at hand. This feels like " another dance, dressed up differently > > and in a different location " . I fear she is going to ruminate on what > > she had or liked about me in the past and cannot have now and will > > spiral downwards, quickly. > > > > Am I over-reacting? Should I trust this and play along? > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Kay, There is an old story. Once, a Christian was tossed into the arena with the lions. One of the lions began to chase him so as to eat him. As fast as he could run, he could tell the lion was going to overtake him any moment. In desperation, he fell to his knees, and prayed, Lord please make this lion become a Christian. Immediatly , the Lion dropped to his knees, put his paws together and prayed, Lord, for what we are about to receive, please make us truly grateful. And the moral is.... Yes. BP s will always be BP s. Doug > > I am new here too, but if I'm learning anything it's that you can't ever trust a BP to do anything but be a BP. > Kay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Kay, There is an old story. Once, a Christian was tossed into the arena with the lions. One of the lions began to chase him so as to eat him. As fast as he could run, he could tell the lion was going to overtake him any moment. In desperation, he fell to his knees, and prayed, Lord please make this lion become a Christian. Immediatly , the Lion dropped to his knees, put his paws together and prayed, Lord, for what we are about to receive, please make us truly grateful. And the moral is.... Yes. BP s will always be BP s. Doug > > I am new here too, but if I'm learning anything it's that you can't ever trust a BP to do anything but be a BP. > Kay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Kay, There is an old story. Once, a Christian was tossed into the arena with the lions. One of the lions began to chase him so as to eat him. As fast as he could run, he could tell the lion was going to overtake him any moment. In desperation, he fell to his knees, and prayed, Lord please make this lion become a Christian. Immediatly , the Lion dropped to his knees, put his paws together and prayed, Lord, for what we are about to receive, please make us truly grateful. And the moral is.... Yes. BP s will always be BP s. Doug > > I am new here too, but if I'm learning anything it's that you can't ever trust a BP to do anything but be a BP. > Kay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Hello Mexmouse, and welcome. If you are new to all this, I strongly suggest that you read SWOE, and check out BDPCentral.com. There s a wealth of information there for you. A few observations below on your post. He seems to have changed over the past year or so and has > fervently taken her side, to the detriment of the relationship between > him and every other member of our family (immediate and extended). She > had already damaged those relationships over the years. Sadly, your dad has become a flying monkey. Oz metaphor, the flying monkeys were not the Wicked witch, but they flew out to do her bidding and pull Dorothy back into the witches castle, so she could have her way with Dorothy. See the analogy? > Last week I got an email from her (signed by both) which proposed that > all three of us: " look far into the past to remember good things about > each other. Then we can send an email with a positive statement twice a > week. That is, you send two to Dad, and two to me, and we each send two > to you. These positive statements will be the only thing in that > email......not combined with any news. May I cut through the FOG and interpret that for you? You are an evil , ungrateful daughter to cut me off. I m not going to take responsibility for my bad behaviors which caused you to set boundaries that I don t like. Since my bad behaviors are not my fault, you are wrong for setting boundaries about them and I ll treat them as such. I m going to ignore them, and play the noble victim role, and noblles oblige, I ll play the one who is big about your problem. So, I m going to let you fall back into the FOG in any way that I can, and manipulate you into telling me how good I am, without acknowledging the behaviors that you objected to, and set boundaries on. I am not, of course going to respect your boundaries, or make any change, but I am going to try to do an end run around them with this little trap. And once you bite and tell me how good I am, I ll respond with some utterly insincere praise about you, which will be so blatantly untrue and insincere that it will insult your intelligence for me to say it, and since I wont mean it, it will cost me nothing. I win all around, because I get around your boundaries and don t have to acknowledge or change a thing. Do you notice what is implied there? You say I m bad, but I say you re bad too. So lets just all concentrate on the good stuff and make nice. These exercises are good for couples therapy, or situations in which estranged family members are trying to heal relationships with a counselor. But it skips the very vital step of acknowledging her stuff, accepting responsibility for her bad behaviors. And it implicitly requires you to just swallow them and let it go while you engage in the focus on the good stuff exercise. Any news can be sent separately. > The positive statements will not be commented on nor challenged by any > of us. " They stated that they would like to try this and reevaluate it > after two months. She has intentionally kept my husband out of it, and a > major issue I have with her is how she has 'demonised' my husband. Notice also, she does not leave any vehicle for either to express even a feeling of how things they may do make you feel bad. Why would anyone challenge a positive statement made about them? See the trap there? She ll give you a left handed compliment that amounts to a slap in the face, and by this agreement you can t comment on it. And of course she controls it without dealing with issues and bad behaviors. So you can t comment on it by her rules, nor does she have to deal with her vitriol toward your husband. > I encourage the idea that my mother tries to focus on the " good " about > me, but without proper counselling and medication, I fear this is just > an empty exercise and that she is in denial-not focused on the real > issue at hand. This feels like " another dance, dressed up differently > and in a different location " . I fear she is going to ruminate on what > she had or liked about me in the past and cannot have now and will > spiral downwards, quickly. > > Am I over-reacting? Should I trust this and play along? This is not an exercise, it is a blatant manipulation. Of COURSE she is in denial, she isnt wrong or responsible for anything, ever. Whatever she does, it will be nothing good. For example, It was good when you were a young girl and listened to me before that worthless son of a bitch you re married to came into the picture. But you can t comment! No, you are not over reacting. NEVER, EVER, EVER trust a BP to do anything other than model BP behaviors. Play is the operative word. This is a game. You never win in BP games. The only winning move is not to play. I would counter, if you are interested in healing the relationship, you can start by respecting my boundaries. I don t have to justify them, these are what I need to be safe and healthy around you. And you can agree to family therapy sessions with my therapist, so she can help us deal with the broken family dynamics. My guess it she will draw a vacuum backing away from that idea. But what you are describing is all on her terms, ignores you and your concerns and safe limits, and does nothing to deal with the situation. You do not need her to tell you what was right with you. And for her to require you to tell her, I liked making candy with you when I was 6, but forbidding you to say, you do xyz to me now and I don t like it, or mom, these behaviors when I was growing up hurt me, is pure manipulation. Don t fall for it. Nice answer, is counter offer to respect boundaries and do family counseling. Direct answer, is bullshit. Nice try, but not a frigging chance. Doug > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Hello Mexmouse, and welcome. If you are new to all this, I strongly suggest that you read SWOE, and check out BDPCentral.com. There s a wealth of information there for you. A few observations below on your post. He seems to have changed over the past year or so and has > fervently taken her side, to the detriment of the relationship between > him and every other member of our family (immediate and extended). She > had already damaged those relationships over the years. Sadly, your dad has become a flying monkey. Oz metaphor, the flying monkeys were not the Wicked witch, but they flew out to do her bidding and pull Dorothy back into the witches castle, so she could have her way with Dorothy. See the analogy? > Last week I got an email from her (signed by both) which proposed that > all three of us: " look far into the past to remember good things about > each other. Then we can send an email with a positive statement twice a > week. That is, you send two to Dad, and two to me, and we each send two > to you. These positive statements will be the only thing in that > email......not combined with any news. May I cut through the FOG and interpret that for you? You are an evil , ungrateful daughter to cut me off. I m not going to take responsibility for my bad behaviors which caused you to set boundaries that I don t like. Since my bad behaviors are not my fault, you are wrong for setting boundaries about them and I ll treat them as such. I m going to ignore them, and play the noble victim role, and noblles oblige, I ll play the one who is big about your problem. So, I m going to let you fall back into the FOG in any way that I can, and manipulate you into telling me how good I am, without acknowledging the behaviors that you objected to, and set boundaries on. I am not, of course going to respect your boundaries, or make any change, but I am going to try to do an end run around them with this little trap. And once you bite and tell me how good I am, I ll respond with some utterly insincere praise about you, which will be so blatantly untrue and insincere that it will insult your intelligence for me to say it, and since I wont mean it, it will cost me nothing. I win all around, because I get around your boundaries and don t have to acknowledge or change a thing. Do you notice what is implied there? You say I m bad, but I say you re bad too. So lets just all concentrate on the good stuff and make nice. These exercises are good for couples therapy, or situations in which estranged family members are trying to heal relationships with a counselor. But it skips the very vital step of acknowledging her stuff, accepting responsibility for her bad behaviors. And it implicitly requires you to just swallow them and let it go while you engage in the focus on the good stuff exercise. Any news can be sent separately. > The positive statements will not be commented on nor challenged by any > of us. " They stated that they would like to try this and reevaluate it > after two months. She has intentionally kept my husband out of it, and a > major issue I have with her is how she has 'demonised' my husband. Notice also, she does not leave any vehicle for either to express even a feeling of how things they may do make you feel bad. Why would anyone challenge a positive statement made about them? See the trap there? She ll give you a left handed compliment that amounts to a slap in the face, and by this agreement you can t comment on it. And of course she controls it without dealing with issues and bad behaviors. So you can t comment on it by her rules, nor does she have to deal with her vitriol toward your husband. > I encourage the idea that my mother tries to focus on the " good " about > me, but without proper counselling and medication, I fear this is just > an empty exercise and that she is in denial-not focused on the real > issue at hand. This feels like " another dance, dressed up differently > and in a different location " . I fear she is going to ruminate on what > she had or liked about me in the past and cannot have now and will > spiral downwards, quickly. > > Am I over-reacting? Should I trust this and play along? This is not an exercise, it is a blatant manipulation. Of COURSE she is in denial, she isnt wrong or responsible for anything, ever. Whatever she does, it will be nothing good. For example, It was good when you were a young girl and listened to me before that worthless son of a bitch you re married to came into the picture. But you can t comment! No, you are not over reacting. NEVER, EVER, EVER trust a BP to do anything other than model BP behaviors. Play is the operative word. This is a game. You never win in BP games. The only winning move is not to play. I would counter, if you are interested in healing the relationship, you can start by respecting my boundaries. I don t have to justify them, these are what I need to be safe and healthy around you. And you can agree to family therapy sessions with my therapist, so she can help us deal with the broken family dynamics. My guess it she will draw a vacuum backing away from that idea. But what you are describing is all on her terms, ignores you and your concerns and safe limits, and does nothing to deal with the situation. You do not need her to tell you what was right with you. And for her to require you to tell her, I liked making candy with you when I was 6, but forbidding you to say, you do xyz to me now and I don t like it, or mom, these behaviors when I was growing up hurt me, is pure manipulation. Don t fall for it. Nice answer, is counter offer to respect boundaries and do family counseling. Direct answer, is bullshit. Nice try, but not a frigging chance. Doug > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Hello Mexmouse, and welcome. If you are new to all this, I strongly suggest that you read SWOE, and check out BDPCentral.com. There s a wealth of information there for you. A few observations below on your post. He seems to have changed over the past year or so and has > fervently taken her side, to the detriment of the relationship between > him and every other member of our family (immediate and extended). She > had already damaged those relationships over the years. Sadly, your dad has become a flying monkey. Oz metaphor, the flying monkeys were not the Wicked witch, but they flew out to do her bidding and pull Dorothy back into the witches castle, so she could have her way with Dorothy. See the analogy? > Last week I got an email from her (signed by both) which proposed that > all three of us: " look far into the past to remember good things about > each other. Then we can send an email with a positive statement twice a > week. That is, you send two to Dad, and two to me, and we each send two > to you. These positive statements will be the only thing in that > email......not combined with any news. May I cut through the FOG and interpret that for you? You are an evil , ungrateful daughter to cut me off. I m not going to take responsibility for my bad behaviors which caused you to set boundaries that I don t like. Since my bad behaviors are not my fault, you are wrong for setting boundaries about them and I ll treat them as such. I m going to ignore them, and play the noble victim role, and noblles oblige, I ll play the one who is big about your problem. So, I m going to let you fall back into the FOG in any way that I can, and manipulate you into telling me how good I am, without acknowledging the behaviors that you objected to, and set boundaries on. I am not, of course going to respect your boundaries, or make any change, but I am going to try to do an end run around them with this little trap. And once you bite and tell me how good I am, I ll respond with some utterly insincere praise about you, which will be so blatantly untrue and insincere that it will insult your intelligence for me to say it, and since I wont mean it, it will cost me nothing. I win all around, because I get around your boundaries and don t have to acknowledge or change a thing. Do you notice what is implied there? You say I m bad, but I say you re bad too. So lets just all concentrate on the good stuff and make nice. These exercises are good for couples therapy, or situations in which estranged family members are trying to heal relationships with a counselor. But it skips the very vital step of acknowledging her stuff, accepting responsibility for her bad behaviors. And it implicitly requires you to just swallow them and let it go while you engage in the focus on the good stuff exercise. Any news can be sent separately. > The positive statements will not be commented on nor challenged by any > of us. " They stated that they would like to try this and reevaluate it > after two months. She has intentionally kept my husband out of it, and a > major issue I have with her is how she has 'demonised' my husband. Notice also, she does not leave any vehicle for either to express even a feeling of how things they may do make you feel bad. Why would anyone challenge a positive statement made about them? See the trap there? She ll give you a left handed compliment that amounts to a slap in the face, and by this agreement you can t comment on it. And of course she controls it without dealing with issues and bad behaviors. So you can t comment on it by her rules, nor does she have to deal with her vitriol toward your husband. > I encourage the idea that my mother tries to focus on the " good " about > me, but without proper counselling and medication, I fear this is just > an empty exercise and that she is in denial-not focused on the real > issue at hand. This feels like " another dance, dressed up differently > and in a different location " . I fear she is going to ruminate on what > she had or liked about me in the past and cannot have now and will > spiral downwards, quickly. > > Am I over-reacting? Should I trust this and play along? This is not an exercise, it is a blatant manipulation. Of COURSE she is in denial, she isnt wrong or responsible for anything, ever. Whatever she does, it will be nothing good. For example, It was good when you were a young girl and listened to me before that worthless son of a bitch you re married to came into the picture. But you can t comment! No, you are not over reacting. NEVER, EVER, EVER trust a BP to do anything other than model BP behaviors. Play is the operative word. This is a game. You never win in BP games. The only winning move is not to play. I would counter, if you are interested in healing the relationship, you can start by respecting my boundaries. I don t have to justify them, these are what I need to be safe and healthy around you. And you can agree to family therapy sessions with my therapist, so she can help us deal with the broken family dynamics. My guess it she will draw a vacuum backing away from that idea. But what you are describing is all on her terms, ignores you and your concerns and safe limits, and does nothing to deal with the situation. You do not need her to tell you what was right with you. And for her to require you to tell her, I liked making candy with you when I was 6, but forbidding you to say, you do xyz to me now and I don t like it, or mom, these behaviors when I was growing up hurt me, is pure manipulation. Don t fall for it. Nice answer, is counter offer to respect boundaries and do family counseling. Direct answer, is bullshit. Nice try, but not a frigging chance. Doug > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Thank you, Doug! Boy did I need a good laugh. I have begun the habit of checking in with WTO every night before bed. It's amazing how much better I sleep. I haven't been on the site a month yet, and I don't know what I would do with out it, or all of you. A thousand blessings on you all. Kay > > > > I am new here too, but if I'm learning anything it's that you can't > ever trust a BP to do anything but be a BP. > > Kay > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Thank you, Doug! Boy did I need a good laugh. I have begun the habit of checking in with WTO every night before bed. It's amazing how much better I sleep. I haven't been on the site a month yet, and I don't know what I would do with out it, or all of you. A thousand blessings on you all. Kay > > > > I am new here too, but if I'm learning anything it's that you can't > ever trust a BP to do anything but be a BP. > > Kay > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Thank you, Doug! Boy did I need a good laugh. I have begun the habit of checking in with WTO every night before bed. It's amazing how much better I sleep. I haven't been on the site a month yet, and I don't know what I would do with out it, or all of you. A thousand blessings on you all. Kay > > > > I am new here too, but if I'm learning anything it's that you can't > ever trust a BP to do anything but be a BP. > > Kay > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Doug that was FANTASTIC. Mexmouse, I agree with Doug 100%. Funny though for me was when I was ready this post I too felt like I could of been sucked into playing her games. After hearing Doug's advice it was so obvious not to. I can't wait to get to that stage where I am TOTALLY out of the fog. This post made me realise it is still there. Lucky for me Nada only contacts my daughter through the mail so I don't have her make any promises or plans for our relationship to be better. This post has helped me and if the day ever comes when Nada wants to get professional help and get out of denial I will always try and remember this. For me though I hope I am never confronted with that problem of reconciliation and her apology and promises of getting therapy. Hope the advice from others helped you Mexmouse. Kazam x > > > He seems to have changed over the past year or so and has > > fervently taken her side, to the detriment of the relationship between > > him and every other member of our family (immediate and extended). > She > > had already damaged those relationships over the years. > > Sadly, your dad has become a flying monkey. Oz metaphor, the flying > monkeys were not the Wicked witch, but they flew out to do her bidding > and pull Dorothy back into the witches castle, so she could have her way > with Dorothy. See the analogy? > > > > Last week I got an email from her (signed by both) which proposed that > > all three of us: " look far into the past to remember good things about > > each other. Then we can send an email with a positive statement twice > a > > week. That is, you send two to Dad, and two to me, and we each send > two > > to you. These positive statements will be the only thing in that > > email......not combined with any news. > > May I cut through the FOG and interpret that for you? > > You are an evil , ungrateful daughter to cut me off. I m not going to > take responsibility for my bad behaviors which caused you to set > boundaries that I don t like. Since my bad behaviors are not my fault, > you are wrong for setting boundaries about them and I ll treat them as > such. I m going to ignore them, and play the noble victim role, and > noblles oblige, I ll play the one who is big about your problem. > > So, I m going to let you fall back into the FOG in any way that I can, > and manipulate you into telling me how good I am, without acknowledging > the behaviors that you objected to, and set boundaries on. I am not, of > course going to respect your boundaries, or make any change, but I am > going to try to do an end run around them with this little trap. And > once you bite and tell me how good I am, I ll respond with some utterly > insincere praise about you, which will be so blatantly untrue and > insincere that it will insult your intelligence for me to say it, and > since I wont mean it, it will cost me nothing. > > I win all around, because I get around your boundaries and don t have to > acknowledge or change a thing. > > Do you notice what is implied there? You say I m bad, but I say you re > bad too. So lets just all concentrate on the good stuff and make nice. > These exercises are good for couples therapy, or situations in which > estranged family members are trying to heal relationships with a > counselor. But it skips the very vital step of acknowledging her stuff, > accepting responsibility for her bad behaviors. And it implicitly > requires you to just swallow them and let it go while you engage in the > focus on the good stuff exercise. > > > > > Any news can be sent separately. > > The positive statements will not be commented on nor challenged by any > > of us. " They stated that they would like to try this and reevaluate > it > > after two months. She has intentionally kept my husband out of it, and > a > > major issue I have with her is how she has 'demonised' my husband. > > > Notice also, she does not leave any vehicle for either to express even a > feeling of how things they may do make you feel bad. Why would anyone > challenge a positive statement made about them? See the trap there? > She ll give you a left handed compliment that amounts to a slap in the > face, and by this agreement you can t comment on it. > > And of course she controls it without dealing with issues and bad > behaviors. So you can t comment on it by her rules, nor does she have > to deal with her vitriol toward your husband. > > > > I encourage the idea that my mother tries to focus on the " good " about > > me, but without proper counselling and medication, I fear this is just > > an empty exercise and that she is in denial-not focused on the real > > issue at hand. This feels like " another dance, dressed up differently > > and in a different location " . I fear she is going to ruminate on what > > she had or liked about me in the past and cannot have now and will > > spiral downwards, quickly. > > > > Am I over-reacting? Should I trust this and play along? > > > This is not an exercise, it is a blatant manipulation. Of COURSE she is > in denial, she isnt wrong or responsible for anything, ever. Whatever > she does, it will be nothing good. > > For example, It was good when you were a young girl and listened to me > before that worthless son of a bitch you re married to came into the > picture. > > But you can t comment! > > No, you are not over reacting. NEVER, EVER, EVER trust a BP to do > anything other than model BP behaviors. > > Play is the operative word. This is a game. You never win in BP games. > The only winning move is not to play. > > I would counter, if you are interested in healing the relationship, you > can start by respecting my boundaries. I don t have to justify them, > these are what I need to be safe and healthy around you. And you can > agree to family therapy sessions with my therapist, so she can help us > deal with the broken family dynamics. > > My guess it she will draw a vacuum backing away from that idea. > > But what you are describing is all on her terms, ignores you and your > concerns and safe limits, and does nothing to deal with the situation. > > You do not need her to tell you what was right with you. And for her to > require you to tell her, I liked making candy with you when I was 6, but > forbidding you to say, you do xyz to me now and I don t like it, or mom, > these behaviors when I was growing up hurt me, is pure manipulation. > > Don t fall for it. > > Nice answer, is counter offer to respect boundaries and do family > counseling. > > Direct answer, is bullshit. Nice try, but not a frigging chance. > > Doug > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Doug that was FANTASTIC. Mexmouse, I agree with Doug 100%. Funny though for me was when I was ready this post I too felt like I could of been sucked into playing her games. After hearing Doug's advice it was so obvious not to. I can't wait to get to that stage where I am TOTALLY out of the fog. This post made me realise it is still there. Lucky for me Nada only contacts my daughter through the mail so I don't have her make any promises or plans for our relationship to be better. This post has helped me and if the day ever comes when Nada wants to get professional help and get out of denial I will always try and remember this. For me though I hope I am never confronted with that problem of reconciliation and her apology and promises of getting therapy. Hope the advice from others helped you Mexmouse. Kazam x > > > He seems to have changed over the past year or so and has > > fervently taken her side, to the detriment of the relationship between > > him and every other member of our family (immediate and extended). > She > > had already damaged those relationships over the years. > > Sadly, your dad has become a flying monkey. Oz metaphor, the flying > monkeys were not the Wicked witch, but they flew out to do her bidding > and pull Dorothy back into the witches castle, so she could have her way > with Dorothy. See the analogy? > > > > Last week I got an email from her (signed by both) which proposed that > > all three of us: " look far into the past to remember good things about > > each other. Then we can send an email with a positive statement twice > a > > week. That is, you send two to Dad, and two to me, and we each send > two > > to you. These positive statements will be the only thing in that > > email......not combined with any news. > > May I cut through the FOG and interpret that for you? > > You are an evil , ungrateful daughter to cut me off. I m not going to > take responsibility for my bad behaviors which caused you to set > boundaries that I don t like. Since my bad behaviors are not my fault, > you are wrong for setting boundaries about them and I ll treat them as > such. I m going to ignore them, and play the noble victim role, and > noblles oblige, I ll play the one who is big about your problem. > > So, I m going to let you fall back into the FOG in any way that I can, > and manipulate you into telling me how good I am, without acknowledging > the behaviors that you objected to, and set boundaries on. I am not, of > course going to respect your boundaries, or make any change, but I am > going to try to do an end run around them with this little trap. And > once you bite and tell me how good I am, I ll respond with some utterly > insincere praise about you, which will be so blatantly untrue and > insincere that it will insult your intelligence for me to say it, and > since I wont mean it, it will cost me nothing. > > I win all around, because I get around your boundaries and don t have to > acknowledge or change a thing. > > Do you notice what is implied there? You say I m bad, but I say you re > bad too. So lets just all concentrate on the good stuff and make nice. > These exercises are good for couples therapy, or situations in which > estranged family members are trying to heal relationships with a > counselor. But it skips the very vital step of acknowledging her stuff, > accepting responsibility for her bad behaviors. And it implicitly > requires you to just swallow them and let it go while you engage in the > focus on the good stuff exercise. > > > > > Any news can be sent separately. > > The positive statements will not be commented on nor challenged by any > > of us. " They stated that they would like to try this and reevaluate > it > > after two months. She has intentionally kept my husband out of it, and > a > > major issue I have with her is how she has 'demonised' my husband. > > > Notice also, she does not leave any vehicle for either to express even a > feeling of how things they may do make you feel bad. Why would anyone > challenge a positive statement made about them? See the trap there? > She ll give you a left handed compliment that amounts to a slap in the > face, and by this agreement you can t comment on it. > > And of course she controls it without dealing with issues and bad > behaviors. So you can t comment on it by her rules, nor does she have > to deal with her vitriol toward your husband. > > > > I encourage the idea that my mother tries to focus on the " good " about > > me, but without proper counselling and medication, I fear this is just > > an empty exercise and that she is in denial-not focused on the real > > issue at hand. This feels like " another dance, dressed up differently > > and in a different location " . I fear she is going to ruminate on what > > she had or liked about me in the past and cannot have now and will > > spiral downwards, quickly. > > > > Am I over-reacting? Should I trust this and play along? > > > This is not an exercise, it is a blatant manipulation. Of COURSE she is > in denial, she isnt wrong or responsible for anything, ever. Whatever > she does, it will be nothing good. > > For example, It was good when you were a young girl and listened to me > before that worthless son of a bitch you re married to came into the > picture. > > But you can t comment! > > No, you are not over reacting. NEVER, EVER, EVER trust a BP to do > anything other than model BP behaviors. > > Play is the operative word. This is a game. You never win in BP games. > The only winning move is not to play. > > I would counter, if you are interested in healing the relationship, you > can start by respecting my boundaries. I don t have to justify them, > these are what I need to be safe and healthy around you. And you can > agree to family therapy sessions with my therapist, so she can help us > deal with the broken family dynamics. > > My guess it she will draw a vacuum backing away from that idea. > > But what you are describing is all on her terms, ignores you and your > concerns and safe limits, and does nothing to deal with the situation. > > You do not need her to tell you what was right with you. And for her to > require you to tell her, I liked making candy with you when I was 6, but > forbidding you to say, you do xyz to me now and I don t like it, or mom, > these behaviors when I was growing up hurt me, is pure manipulation. > > Don t fall for it. > > Nice answer, is counter offer to respect boundaries and do family > counseling. > > Direct answer, is bullshit. Nice try, but not a frigging chance. > > Doug > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Doug that was FANTASTIC. Mexmouse, I agree with Doug 100%. Funny though for me was when I was ready this post I too felt like I could of been sucked into playing her games. After hearing Doug's advice it was so obvious not to. I can't wait to get to that stage where I am TOTALLY out of the fog. This post made me realise it is still there. Lucky for me Nada only contacts my daughter through the mail so I don't have her make any promises or plans for our relationship to be better. This post has helped me and if the day ever comes when Nada wants to get professional help and get out of denial I will always try and remember this. For me though I hope I am never confronted with that problem of reconciliation and her apology and promises of getting therapy. Hope the advice from others helped you Mexmouse. Kazam x > > > He seems to have changed over the past year or so and has > > fervently taken her side, to the detriment of the relationship between > > him and every other member of our family (immediate and extended). > She > > had already damaged those relationships over the years. > > Sadly, your dad has become a flying monkey. Oz metaphor, the flying > monkeys were not the Wicked witch, but they flew out to do her bidding > and pull Dorothy back into the witches castle, so she could have her way > with Dorothy. See the analogy? > > > > Last week I got an email from her (signed by both) which proposed that > > all three of us: " look far into the past to remember good things about > > each other. Then we can send an email with a positive statement twice > a > > week. That is, you send two to Dad, and two to me, and we each send > two > > to you. These positive statements will be the only thing in that > > email......not combined with any news. > > May I cut through the FOG and interpret that for you? > > You are an evil , ungrateful daughter to cut me off. I m not going to > take responsibility for my bad behaviors which caused you to set > boundaries that I don t like. Since my bad behaviors are not my fault, > you are wrong for setting boundaries about them and I ll treat them as > such. I m going to ignore them, and play the noble victim role, and > noblles oblige, I ll play the one who is big about your problem. > > So, I m going to let you fall back into the FOG in any way that I can, > and manipulate you into telling me how good I am, without acknowledging > the behaviors that you objected to, and set boundaries on. I am not, of > course going to respect your boundaries, or make any change, but I am > going to try to do an end run around them with this little trap. And > once you bite and tell me how good I am, I ll respond with some utterly > insincere praise about you, which will be so blatantly untrue and > insincere that it will insult your intelligence for me to say it, and > since I wont mean it, it will cost me nothing. > > I win all around, because I get around your boundaries and don t have to > acknowledge or change a thing. > > Do you notice what is implied there? You say I m bad, but I say you re > bad too. So lets just all concentrate on the good stuff and make nice. > These exercises are good for couples therapy, or situations in which > estranged family members are trying to heal relationships with a > counselor. But it skips the very vital step of acknowledging her stuff, > accepting responsibility for her bad behaviors. And it implicitly > requires you to just swallow them and let it go while you engage in the > focus on the good stuff exercise. > > > > > Any news can be sent separately. > > The positive statements will not be commented on nor challenged by any > > of us. " They stated that they would like to try this and reevaluate > it > > after two months. She has intentionally kept my husband out of it, and > a > > major issue I have with her is how she has 'demonised' my husband. > > > Notice also, she does not leave any vehicle for either to express even a > feeling of how things they may do make you feel bad. Why would anyone > challenge a positive statement made about them? See the trap there? > She ll give you a left handed compliment that amounts to a slap in the > face, and by this agreement you can t comment on it. > > And of course she controls it without dealing with issues and bad > behaviors. So you can t comment on it by her rules, nor does she have > to deal with her vitriol toward your husband. > > > > I encourage the idea that my mother tries to focus on the " good " about > > me, but without proper counselling and medication, I fear this is just > > an empty exercise and that she is in denial-not focused on the real > > issue at hand. This feels like " another dance, dressed up differently > > and in a different location " . I fear she is going to ruminate on what > > she had or liked about me in the past and cannot have now and will > > spiral downwards, quickly. > > > > Am I over-reacting? Should I trust this and play along? > > > This is not an exercise, it is a blatant manipulation. Of COURSE she is > in denial, she isnt wrong or responsible for anything, ever. Whatever > she does, it will be nothing good. > > For example, It was good when you were a young girl and listened to me > before that worthless son of a bitch you re married to came into the > picture. > > But you can t comment! > > No, you are not over reacting. NEVER, EVER, EVER trust a BP to do > anything other than model BP behaviors. > > Play is the operative word. This is a game. You never win in BP games. > The only winning move is not to play. > > I would counter, if you are interested in healing the relationship, you > can start by respecting my boundaries. I don t have to justify them, > these are what I need to be safe and healthy around you. And you can > agree to family therapy sessions with my therapist, so she can help us > deal with the broken family dynamics. > > My guess it she will draw a vacuum backing away from that idea. > > But what you are describing is all on her terms, ignores you and your > concerns and safe limits, and does nothing to deal with the situation. > > You do not need her to tell you what was right with you. And for her to > require you to tell her, I liked making candy with you when I was 6, but > forbidding you to say, you do xyz to me now and I don t like it, or mom, > these behaviors when I was growing up hurt me, is pure manipulation. > > Don t fall for it. > > Nice answer, is counter offer to respect boundaries and do family > counseling. > > Direct answer, is bullshit. Nice try, but not a frigging chance. > > Doug > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 > Last week I got an email from her (signed by both) which proposed that > all three of us: " look far into the past to remember good things about > each other. Then we can send an email with a positive statement twice a > week. That is, you send two to Dad, and two to me, and we each send two > to you. These positive statements will be the only thing in that > email......not combined with any news. Any news can be sent separately. > The positive statements will not be commented on nor challenged by any > of us. " Wow. Just...wow. I have to say that (for me) it is so much easier to deal with all this mess when they come up with something so outrageously ridiculous as this! What can you do but laugh? I haven't read all the replies, but seeing who sent them, I know I don't have to tell you what this means or suggest what to do about it, because they always say the same things I do. But what I couldn't help thinking as I read that email is how subjective the term " positive statements " is. I mean, let's assume the family goes through with this remarkable plan to have an emotional orgy (forgive the term, but that's what it makes me think of)...So, you do your darndest to come up with something genuine that might be a compliment, or heck, maybe you even tell her she's better than Jesus and that the stars wouldn't shine without her...and it wouldn't be good enough. And then, her idea of a compliment is telling you you're the most beautiful fat person she's ever seen or that you could be so successful if you didn't have to work so hard to compensate for your loser of a husband. To a nada, that seems like a compliment! And built into the rules is the genius caveat that you can't argue with her about any of them. Puh-lease. I see what I presume others have pointed out already: a big shiny hook with a nasty, wriggly, worm that doesn't even cover up the giant barb on the end. Does she seriously think you're going to bite? I mean, come on...the least she could do is head over to the tackle shop for a realistic-looking fly. > I encourage the idea that my mother tries to focus on the " good " about > me, but without proper counselling and medication, I fear this is just > an empty exercise and that she is in denial-not focused on the real > issue at hand. It sounds like you have keen perception of what is going on here. I think when a person with BPD is focused on the good, it is usually part of splitting. You know too well that demonization comes rapidly at the heels of idealization. The trick is to understand that neither extreme is to be trusted, and to come to your own understanding of who you are, taking shelter somewhere in the stable middle ground of life that they don't know even exists. Does that make sense? She might compliment you, but it's really just the only way she knows to get people to like her or to mirror back to her the attention that she so desperately craves...and when it doesn't work or the high wears off, she'll go back to using you as the rubbish bin where she tries to put all the things she hates about herself. I think you're right not to trust her. KT KT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 > Last week I got an email from her (signed by both) which proposed that > all three of us: " look far into the past to remember good things about > each other. Then we can send an email with a positive statement twice a > week. That is, you send two to Dad, and two to me, and we each send two > to you. These positive statements will be the only thing in that > email......not combined with any news. Any news can be sent separately. > The positive statements will not be commented on nor challenged by any > of us. " Wow. Just...wow. I have to say that (for me) it is so much easier to deal with all this mess when they come up with something so outrageously ridiculous as this! What can you do but laugh? I haven't read all the replies, but seeing who sent them, I know I don't have to tell you what this means or suggest what to do about it, because they always say the same things I do. But what I couldn't help thinking as I read that email is how subjective the term " positive statements " is. I mean, let's assume the family goes through with this remarkable plan to have an emotional orgy (forgive the term, but that's what it makes me think of)...So, you do your darndest to come up with something genuine that might be a compliment, or heck, maybe you even tell her she's better than Jesus and that the stars wouldn't shine without her...and it wouldn't be good enough. And then, her idea of a compliment is telling you you're the most beautiful fat person she's ever seen or that you could be so successful if you didn't have to work so hard to compensate for your loser of a husband. To a nada, that seems like a compliment! And built into the rules is the genius caveat that you can't argue with her about any of them. Puh-lease. I see what I presume others have pointed out already: a big shiny hook with a nasty, wriggly, worm that doesn't even cover up the giant barb on the end. Does she seriously think you're going to bite? I mean, come on...the least she could do is head over to the tackle shop for a realistic-looking fly. > I encourage the idea that my mother tries to focus on the " good " about > me, but without proper counselling and medication, I fear this is just > an empty exercise and that she is in denial-not focused on the real > issue at hand. It sounds like you have keen perception of what is going on here. I think when a person with BPD is focused on the good, it is usually part of splitting. You know too well that demonization comes rapidly at the heels of idealization. The trick is to understand that neither extreme is to be trusted, and to come to your own understanding of who you are, taking shelter somewhere in the stable middle ground of life that they don't know even exists. Does that make sense? She might compliment you, but it's really just the only way she knows to get people to like her or to mirror back to her the attention that she so desperately craves...and when it doesn't work or the high wears off, she'll go back to using you as the rubbish bin where she tries to put all the things she hates about herself. I think you're right not to trust her. KT KT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 > Last week I got an email from her (signed by both) which proposed that > all three of us: " look far into the past to remember good things about > each other. Then we can send an email with a positive statement twice a > week. That is, you send two to Dad, and two to me, and we each send two > to you. These positive statements will be the only thing in that > email......not combined with any news. Any news can be sent separately. > The positive statements will not be commented on nor challenged by any > of us. " Wow. Just...wow. I have to say that (for me) it is so much easier to deal with all this mess when they come up with something so outrageously ridiculous as this! What can you do but laugh? I haven't read all the replies, but seeing who sent them, I know I don't have to tell you what this means or suggest what to do about it, because they always say the same things I do. But what I couldn't help thinking as I read that email is how subjective the term " positive statements " is. I mean, let's assume the family goes through with this remarkable plan to have an emotional orgy (forgive the term, but that's what it makes me think of)...So, you do your darndest to come up with something genuine that might be a compliment, or heck, maybe you even tell her she's better than Jesus and that the stars wouldn't shine without her...and it wouldn't be good enough. And then, her idea of a compliment is telling you you're the most beautiful fat person she's ever seen or that you could be so successful if you didn't have to work so hard to compensate for your loser of a husband. To a nada, that seems like a compliment! And built into the rules is the genius caveat that you can't argue with her about any of them. Puh-lease. I see what I presume others have pointed out already: a big shiny hook with a nasty, wriggly, worm that doesn't even cover up the giant barb on the end. Does she seriously think you're going to bite? I mean, come on...the least she could do is head over to the tackle shop for a realistic-looking fly. > I encourage the idea that my mother tries to focus on the " good " about > me, but without proper counselling and medication, I fear this is just > an empty exercise and that she is in denial-not focused on the real > issue at hand. It sounds like you have keen perception of what is going on here. I think when a person with BPD is focused on the good, it is usually part of splitting. You know too well that demonization comes rapidly at the heels of idealization. The trick is to understand that neither extreme is to be trusted, and to come to your own understanding of who you are, taking shelter somewhere in the stable middle ground of life that they don't know even exists. Does that make sense? She might compliment you, but it's really just the only way she knows to get people to like her or to mirror back to her the attention that she so desperately craves...and when it doesn't work or the high wears off, she'll go back to using you as the rubbish bin where she tries to put all the things she hates about herself. I think you're right not to trust her. KT KT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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