Re: I have to do something but what?

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I'm no psychologist but it sounds to me like you're suffering from

post-traumatic stress disorder. The Christmas visit was so frightening and

upsetting to you that it was like being in a car accident or being assaulted.

(I'd feel the same way under the conditions you described; your mother's

behaviors did sound just horrible.)

Are you currently in therapy? It seems to me that this is something that a

psychologist can help you tackle better than anything else. PTSD isn't

something that just " goes away " on its own, like a cold.

A therapist will probably recommend that you go NC, " no contact " , for a while to

give you time to process the trauma and recover from it. From what I've read,

its virtually impossible to recover from abuse-trauma if you're still being

chronically abused.

You are not obligated to tell your mother anything or get her understanding or

approval. Its not her business.

Me personally, I'd just write a short private note saying something like, " I

need a time-out from contact with you, mom. I don't know for how long, but I'll

let you know when I'm ready to resume contact.

Thanks for understanding. "

But each of us has the right to figure out what works best for us as an

individual. The above is just my 2 cent's worth to take or leave as it suits

you.

-Annie

>

> Hi all,

>

> Over the past few weeks I've trying to recover from the horrific incident that

was my Christmas (I posted it elsewhere but long story short, but mother flew

into a violent rage, was hyperparanoid the whole time, and in the end we all

spent 2 days not being able to talk to anyone in the house because of her

paranoia--2 days snowed in without being able to have any conversation and only

basic cable and a broken DVD player).

>

> The thing is, anytime there is any contact from my mother, the trauma starts

all over again. I mean, we've barely talked since Christmas--only one phone call

that lasted 2 seconds for her to say Happy New Year. The rest has been via

Facebook. At first she commented on my posts (like nothing was wrong and she

hadn't said these awful things about and to me), so I took your advice and made

it so she can still be a friend on Facebook, but not comment. Then, I got my

hair cut (13.5 inches off) and posted some pics to Facebook. Since she couldn't

comment, she sent me a Facebook email. Then this morning, she posted all the

pics from Xmas and tagged me in them.

>

> Now, I haven't had any conversation with her about what happened--my guess is

that she would deny it all happened anyways--and I haven't stated any actual

boundaries with her. But I think it's time to. Every time I have any contact

with her, it triggers me now. I get severely depressed and just want to go

sleep. But then when I do sleep, I have all these awful dreams concerning her. I

haven't had one night of peace since I returned--all awful dreams.

>

> I don't want to hang out with friends because I don't feel normal anymore. I

mean, I want to, but I'm scared to because I might just start crying. I tried to

tell my friends about what happened, but they just didn't understand--and I

think they were also embarrassed that I was sharing it with them.

>

> I haven't been able to talk to my stepfather to get an update about what

happened. Everyone in my family is downplaying it like it wasn't that big of a

deal. I'm sitting here, freaking traumatized, and they're acting like nothing

happened!

>

> I can block my mom entirely on Facebook, but what do I say to her when I do

that? How do I have a conversation with a woman who doesn't acknowledge that

anything is wrong, that she did anything wrong, or that anything even happened?

I don't want to hurt her, but it's been almost three weeks, and I haven't been

able to move on because my abuser is still abusing me, basically.

>

> Please help. I need this year to turn around.

>

> Thanks to all,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I'm no psychologist but it sounds to me like you're suffering from

post-traumatic stress disorder. The Christmas visit was so frightening and

upsetting to you that it was like being in a car accident or being assaulted.

(I'd feel the same way under the conditions you described; your mother's

behaviors did sound just horrible.)

Are you currently in therapy? It seems to me that this is something that a

psychologist can help you tackle better than anything else. PTSD isn't

something that just " goes away " on its own, like a cold.

A therapist will probably recommend that you go NC, " no contact " , for a while to

give you time to process the trauma and recover from it. From what I've read,

its virtually impossible to recover from abuse-trauma if you're still being

chronically abused.

You are not obligated to tell your mother anything or get her understanding or

approval. Its not her business.

Me personally, I'd just write a short private note saying something like, " I

need a time-out from contact with you, mom. I don't know for how long, but I'll

let you know when I'm ready to resume contact.

Thanks for understanding. "

But each of us has the right to figure out what works best for us as an

individual. The above is just my 2 cent's worth to take or leave as it suits

you.

-Annie

>

> Hi all,

>

> Over the past few weeks I've trying to recover from the horrific incident that

was my Christmas (I posted it elsewhere but long story short, but mother flew

into a violent rage, was hyperparanoid the whole time, and in the end we all

spent 2 days not being able to talk to anyone in the house because of her

paranoia--2 days snowed in without being able to have any conversation and only

basic cable and a broken DVD player).

>

> The thing is, anytime there is any contact from my mother, the trauma starts

all over again. I mean, we've barely talked since Christmas--only one phone call

that lasted 2 seconds for her to say Happy New Year. The rest has been via

Facebook. At first she commented on my posts (like nothing was wrong and she

hadn't said these awful things about and to me), so I took your advice and made

it so she can still be a friend on Facebook, but not comment. Then, I got my

hair cut (13.5 inches off) and posted some pics to Facebook. Since she couldn't

comment, she sent me a Facebook email. Then this morning, she posted all the

pics from Xmas and tagged me in them.

>

> Now, I haven't had any conversation with her about what happened--my guess is

that she would deny it all happened anyways--and I haven't stated any actual

boundaries with her. But I think it's time to. Every time I have any contact

with her, it triggers me now. I get severely depressed and just want to go

sleep. But then when I do sleep, I have all these awful dreams concerning her. I

haven't had one night of peace since I returned--all awful dreams.

>

> I don't want to hang out with friends because I don't feel normal anymore. I

mean, I want to, but I'm scared to because I might just start crying. I tried to

tell my friends about what happened, but they just didn't understand--and I

think they were also embarrassed that I was sharing it with them.

>

> I haven't been able to talk to my stepfather to get an update about what

happened. Everyone in my family is downplaying it like it wasn't that big of a

deal. I'm sitting here, freaking traumatized, and they're acting like nothing

happened!

>

> I can block my mom entirely on Facebook, but what do I say to her when I do

that? How do I have a conversation with a woman who doesn't acknowledge that

anything is wrong, that she did anything wrong, or that anything even happened?

I don't want to hurt her, but it's been almost three weeks, and I haven't been

able to move on because my abuser is still abusing me, basically.

>

> Please help. I need this year to turn around.

>

> Thanks to all,

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I am a total wuss when it comes to any kind of confrontation and eased out of

boundary setting when my mother developed dementia to the point she requires

nursing home care, so I can offer no good advice - I'm sure others will.

However, you can go on Facebook and go to your wall and find a post from your

mother. Hover your mouse on the bottom right of it and you will get an option to

" hide all posts " from her. I have done this with a few high school classmates

who put up so many religious posts each day I was missing other posts.

She will never know and you won't be triggered because you won't see her

comments, tags, etc.

Not a permanent solution, but one that can buy you some peace to recover your

inner equilibrium.

Em

Sent from my blueberry.

> Hi all,

>

> Over the past few weeks I've trying to recover from the horrific incident that

was my Christmas (I posted it elsewhere but long story short, but mother flew

into a violent rage, was hyperparanoid the whole time, and in the end we all

spent 2 days not being able to talk to anyone in the house because of her

paranoia--2 days snowed in without being able to have any conversation and only

basic cable and a broken DVD player).

>

> The thing is, anytime there is any contact from my mother, the trauma starts

all over again. I mean, we've barely talked since Christmas--only one phone call

that lasted 2 seconds for her to say Happy New Year. The rest has been via

Facebook. At first she commented on my posts (like nothing was wrong and she

hadn't said these awful things about and to me), so I took your advice and made

it so she can still be a friend on Facebook, but not comment. Then, I got my

hair cut (13.5 inches off) and posted some pics to Facebook. Since she couldn't

comment, she sent me a Facebook email. Then this morning, she posted all the

pics from Xmas and tagged me in them.

>

> Now, I haven't had any conversation with her about what happened--my guess is

that she would deny it all happened anyways--and I haven't stated any actual

boundaries with her. But I think it's time to. Every time I have any contact

with her, it triggers me now. I get severely depressed and just want to go

sleep. But then when I do sleep, I have all these awful dreams concerning her. I

haven't had one night of peace since I returned--all awful dreams.

>

> I don't want to hang out with friends because I don't feel normal anymore. I

mean, I want to, but I'm scared to because I might just start crying. I tried to

tell my friends about what happened, but they just didn't understand--and I

think they were also embarrassed that I was sharing it with them.

>

> I haven't been able to talk to my stepfather to get an update about what

happened. Everyone in my family is downplaying it like it wasn't that big of a

deal. I'm sitting here, freaking traumatized, and they're acting like nothing

happened!

>

> I can block my mom entirely on Facebook, but what do I say to her when I do

that? How do I have a conversation with a woman who doesn't acknowledge that

anything is wrong, that she did anything wrong, or that anything even happened?

I don't want to hurt her, but it's been almost three weeks, and I haven't been

able to move on because my abuser is still abusing me, basically.

>

> Please help. I need this year to turn around.

>

> Thanks to all,

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

It sounds like you had a really terrible experience at

Christmas. Why do you have to say anything to your nada if you

block her on Facebook? She's the one who has behaved badly. You

don't owe her anything or have to justify your reactions. You

say you don't want to hurt her, as if it is your responsibility

to protect her from feeling hurt. It isn't. If she feels hurt

because you choose to protect yourself, that's her problem not

yours. Where BPD is concerned, you really can't stop them from

feeling hurt anyway because pretty much anything you do can

result in them feeling hurt, even if you do exactly what they

claimed they wanted you to do. Having abnormal negative emotions

is a big part of what BPD is all about. You ask how you have a

conversation about it with a woman who won't admit that anything

is wrong. The answer to that is that you don't. You can't have a

logical discussion of a problem with someone who is just not

rational and doesn't think logically. Nothing you say is going

to make her understand what she did wrong. Short of totally

giving in and saying she was right, pretty much anything you say

is likely to make things worse. I find that it helps to think of

my nada as emotionally like a two or three-year-old. Small

children have tantrums when they don't get what they want. They

generally don't understand when you try to explain to them the

reasons they can't have or do whatever it is. That's what nadas

are like much of the time. The way their brains work just

doesn't allow them to respond normally to us.

My advice is to start putting your own needs first, and start

taking steps to cut her off when she is says and does abusive

things. You can't control her behavior but you can control how

much you put up with and how you react to what she does. I'd

limit the amount and types of contact you have with her,

assuming that you want contact with her at all. Blocking her on

Facebook would be a good start. Facebook makes it really easy

for nadas to misbehave without immediate and obvious

consequences. For more direct forms of contact, make it clear

that that contact gets cut off when she misbehaves. Don't put up

with verbally abusive phone calls for example, or with excessive

numbers of phone calls. The next time you visit, make

arrangements to stay elsewhere. In my experience, if you have a

plan for how to deal with the things she does, that helps

minimize the feelings of fear about what she might do. If the

fear is overwhelming, and if you haven't gotten a single good

night's sleep for a couple of weeks, I think it probably is,

getting some professional help might be called for. You don't

have to deal with it all on your own.

As for going out with your friends, I'd recommend not worrying

about whether you might cry. If you do, just say that you've had

some upsetting experiences recently. You might be right about

them feeling embarassed when you shared details with them.

People often don't know how to react to the things we've

experienced and not knowing what to say often makes them

uncomfortable. Socializing with reasonable people is a good

distraction and should help to make you feel better in the long

run. If they have negative reactions to the way you feel, you

might want to find a better group of friends. Real friends care

about you, and if you cry, they generally want to make you feel

better even if they don't understand what the problem is.

At 12:37 PM 01/12/2011 afldancer wrote:

>Hi all,

>

>Over the past few weeks I've trying to recover from the

>horrific incident that was my Christmas (I posted it elsewhere

>but long story short, but mother flew into a violent rage, was

>hyperparanoid the whole time, and in the end we all spent 2

>days not being able to talk to anyone in the house because of

>her paranoia--2 days snowed in without being able to have any

>conversation and only basic cable and a broken DVD player).

>

>The thing is, anytime there is any contact from my mother, the

>trauma starts all over again. I mean, we've barely talked since

>Christmas--only one phone call that lasted 2 seconds for her to

>say Happy New Year. The rest has been via Facebook. At first

>she commented on my posts (like nothing was wrong and she

>hadn't said these awful things about and to me), so I took your

>advice and made it so she can still be a friend on Facebook,

>but not comment. Then, I got my hair cut (13.5 inches off) and

>posted some pics to Facebook. Since she couldn't comment, she

>sent me a Facebook email. Then this morning, she posted all the

>pics from Xmas and tagged me in them.

>

>Now, I haven't had any conversation with her about what

>happened--my guess is that she would deny it all happened

>anyways--and I haven't stated any actual boundaries with her.

>But I think it's time to. Every time I have any contact with

>her, it triggers me now. I get severely depressed and just want

>to go sleep. But then when I do sleep, I have all these awful

>dreams concerning her. I haven't had one night of peace since I

>returned--all awful dreams.

>

>I don't want to hang out with friends because I don't feel

>normal anymore. I mean, I want to, but I'm scared to because I

>might just start crying. I tried to tell my friends about what

>happened, but they just didn't understand--and I think they

>were also embarrassed that I was sharing it with them.

>

>I haven't been able to talk to my stepfather to get an update

>about what happened. Everyone in my family is downplaying it

>like it wasn't that big of a deal. I'm sitting here, freaking

>traumatized, and they're acting like nothing happened!

>

>I can block my mom entirely on Facebook, but what do I say to

>her when I do that? How do I have a conversation with a woman

>who doesn't acknowledge that anything is wrong, that she did

>anything wrong, or that anything even happened? I don't want to

>hurt her, but it's been almost three weeks, and I haven't been

>able to move on because my abuser is still abusing me,

>basically.

>

>Please help. I need this year to turn around.

>

>Thanks to all,

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Every thing you say makes perfect sense, and even reading what I wrote, makes me

go " did you hear what you said, ?! " I guess I just feel like taking this

action will start some kind of world war 3 in my family. I'm already estranged

from a brother who behaves poorly towards people and who enables my mother as

well.

I hid all her posts on Facebook, and I'm going to weigh the pros and cons of

blocking her on Facebook. She is definitely using it to pretend nothing is

wrong. Because before this episode, she used to IM me through her AOL account,

almost everyday, and she hasn't tried to actually talk to me at all. It's like

if she can post little comments and I don't do anything, then everything is

okay, right? WRONG.

I'm going to talk to a therapist, and I think I have to limit my contact--but

frankly I want her to know I'm limiting my contact because of her behavior--it's

like I want it on record or something.

Re: my friends-they are very good people, I think they just don't know what to

say to me because they have no experience with family like this. I don't think

they'd walk away if I started crying in front of them. I just think they have no

idea what to do. One of my closest friends is actually a doctoral student here

from England, and she's just naturally a little more formal.

It just feels good to admit that I clearly have a problem. That my own feelings

on this matter are not dissipating and the shock and trauma is not just going to

fade away. But in writing this it's also becoming clear to me that if she is

going to cause such psychological trauma in my life, that I have to go as LC as

possible.

This is really hard. Up until this minute I still had this hope that everything

could be normal. I'm realizing now I had moved so far away and covered this

whole thing up--I mean the whole thing, my childhood, how she behaved in the

past, being an adult when I was a kid, etc. But it never went away, I just built

my life around it like volcano. And now the volcano is erupting.

[Guest guest]

Taking action won't be the start of world war 3 in your family.

World war 3 has already been started by her actions. The

question is whether you're going to fight back and stop the

invasion or just let yourself be overrun.

Giving up hope of a normal relationship is hard to do, even when

you've been given evidence over and over again that it isn't

likely. Often it takes some really dreadful experience to really

get through to us that such hope is pointless. Likening her to a

volcano is a good analogy. I use Livejournal to post about what

is going on in my life. Each post has an icon that goes with it.

The one I use for posts about my nada's horrible behavior is a

picture of the " volcano eruption evacuation route " from

Washington state. It seems entirely appropriate to me. My nada

can go off without warning and when she does it can be either

horribly destructive or just a lot of smoke and sparks.

At 02:58 PM 01/12/2011 afldancer wrote:

>Every thing you say makes perfect sense, and even reading what

>I wrote, makes me go " did you hear what you said, ?! " I

>guess I just feel like taking this action will start some kind

>of world war 3 in my family. I'm already estranged from a

>brother who behaves poorly towards people and who enables my

>mother as well.

>

>I hid all her posts on Facebook, and I'm going to weigh the

>pros and cons of blocking her on Facebook. She is definitely

>using it to pretend nothing is wrong. Because before this

>episode, she used to IM me through her AOL account, almost

>everyday, and she hasn't tried to actually talk to me at all.

>It's like if she can post little comments and I don't do

>anything, then everything is okay, right? WRONG.

>

>I'm going to talk to a therapist, and I think I have to limit

>my contact--but frankly I want her to know I'm limiting my

>contact because of her behavior--it's like I want it on record

>or something.

>

>Re: my friends-they are very good people, I think they just

>don't know what to say to me because they have no experience

>with family like this. I don't think they'd walk away if I

>started crying in front of them. I just think they have no idea

>what to do. One of my closest friends is actually a doctoral

>student here from England, and she's just naturally a little

>more formal.

>

>It just feels good to admit that I clearly have a problem. That

>my own feelings on this matter are not dissipating and the

>shock and trauma is not just going to fade away. But in writing

>this it's also becoming clear to me that if she is going to

>cause such psychological trauma in my life, that I have to go

>as LC as possible.

>

>This is really hard. Up until this minute I still had this hope

>that everything could be normal. I'm realizing now I had moved

>so far away and covered this whole thing up--I mean the whole

>thing, my childhood, how she behaved in the past, being an

>adult when I was a kid, etc. But it never went away, I just

>built my life around it like volcano. And now the volcano is

>erupting.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Facebook is a BPD's Best Friend!

I read this and thought - WOW THAT'S MY NADA, TOO!!!

" I hid all her posts on Facebook, and I'm going to weigh the

pros and cons of blocking her on Facebook. She is definitely

using it to pretend nothing is wrong. Because before this

episode, she used to IM me through her AOL account, almost

everyday, and she hasn't tried to actually talk to me at all.

It's like if she can post little comments and I don't do

anything, then everything is okay, right? WRONG. "

All of these: Yahoo/IM, MSN/Messenger, FB/ wall to wall, posts, threads,

chat/IM/messages, cell texts, cell VM, house VM.. You can be if she wants to

show up, she sends the SAME MESSAGE to all of these... yes... ALL of them.

Cut/paste is Nada's new mode of the last couple of years....

I've blocked most of the IM accts from her (so who knows how much actually

sneaks through) and am considering blocking her on FB. That may start a war but

really, who cares? lol I'm already in the habit of pulling her posts off my

stuff (90% of them) because they are 1) inappropriate or 2) crazy and

embarassing. I've explained to her WHY I'm on FB and what is NOT acceptable to

my purpose. Well THAT WENT OVER LIKE A LEAD BALLOON... what a shocker.

All I can say is THANK GOD FOR CALLER ID!

Lynnette

> >Every thing you say makes perfect sense, and even reading what

> >I wrote, makes me go " did you hear what you said, ?! " I

> >guess I just feel like taking this action will start some kind

> >of world war 3 in my family. I'm already estranged from a

> >brother who behaves poorly towards people and who enables my

> >mother as well.

> >

> >I hid all her posts on Facebook, and I'm going to weigh the

> >pros and cons of blocking her on Facebook. She is definitely

> >using it to pretend nothing is wrong. Because before this

> >episode, she used to IM me through her AOL account, almost

> >everyday, and she hasn't tried to actually talk to me at all.

> >It's like if she can post little comments and I don't do

> >anything, then everything is okay, right? WRONG.

> >

> >I'm going to talk to a therapist, and I think I have to limit

> >my contact--but frankly I want her to know I'm limiting my

> >contact because of her behavior--it's like I want it on record

> >or something.

> >

> >Re: my friends-they are very good people, I think they just

> >don't know what to say to me because they have no experience

> >with family like this. I don't think they'd walk away if I

> >started crying in front of them. I just think they have no idea

> >what to do. One of my closest friends is actually a doctoral

> >student here from England, and she's just naturally a little

> >more formal.

> >

> >It just feels good to admit that I clearly have a problem. That

> >my own feelings on this matter are not dissipating and the

> >shock and trauma is not just going to fade away. But in writing

> >this it's also becoming clear to me that if she is going to

> >cause such psychological trauma in my life, that I have to go

> >as LC as possible.

> >

> >This is really hard. Up until this minute I still had this hope

> >that everything could be normal. I'm realizing now I had moved

> >so far away and covered this whole thing up--I mean the whole

> >thing, my childhood, how she behaved in the past, being an

> >adult when I was a kid, etc. But it never went away, I just

> >built my life around it like volcano. And now the volcano is

> >erupting.

>

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

My name is also , and reading your post had me a bit confused because it

sounded so much like my Christmas experience with my BPD mother. I am talking

to a psychologist and I agree with Annie that it is a tremendous help to talk to

a professional. It helped my depression, and made me feel less isolated. I

definitely know what you are going through and you are not alone, and things can

and will get better.

Good luck,

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > Over the past few weeks I've trying to recover from the horrific incident

that was my Christmas (I posted it elsewhere but long story short, but mother

flew into a violent rage, was hyperparanoid the whole time, and in the end we

all spent 2 days not being able to talk to anyone in the house because of her

paranoia--2 days snowed in without being able to have any conversation and only

basic cable and a broken DVD player).

> >

> > The thing is, anytime there is any contact from my mother, the trauma starts

all over again. I mean, we've barely talked since Christmas--only one phone call

that lasted 2 seconds for her to say Happy New Year. The rest has been via

Facebook. At first she commented on my posts (like nothing was wrong and she

hadn't said these awful things about and to me), so I took your advice and made

it so she can still be a friend on Facebook, but not comment. Then, I got my

hair cut (13.5 inches off) and posted some pics to Facebook. Since she couldn't

comment, she sent me a Facebook email. Then this morning, she posted all the

pics from Xmas and tagged me in them.

> >

> > Now, I haven't had any conversation with her about what happened--my guess

is that she would deny it all happened anyways--and I haven't stated any actual

boundaries with her. But I think it's time to. Every time I have any contact

with her, it triggers me now. I get severely depressed and just want to go

sleep. But then when I do sleep, I have all these awful dreams concerning her. I

haven't had one night of peace since I returned--all awful dreams.

> >

> > I don't want to hang out with friends because I don't feel normal anymore. I

mean, I want to, but I'm scared to because I might just start crying. I tried to

tell my friends about what happened, but they just didn't understand--and I

think they were also embarrassed that I was sharing it with them.

> >

> > I haven't been able to talk to my stepfather to get an update about what

happened. Everyone in my family is downplaying it like it wasn't that big of a

deal. I'm sitting here, freaking traumatized, and they're acting like nothing

happened!

> >

> > I can block my mom entirely on Facebook, but what do I say to her when I do

that? How do I have a conversation with a woman who doesn't acknowledge that

anything is wrong, that she did anything wrong, or that anything even happened?

I don't want to hurt her, but it's been almost three weeks, and I haven't been

able to move on because my abuser is still abusing me, basically.

> >

> > Please help. I need this year to turn around.

> >

> > Thanks to all,

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, I'm so glad you all understand and here for me to talk to. None of her

posts could really be taken as inappropriate or hurtful or anything. Most of

them are just " oh, nice haircut " or her " liking " or " disliking " something, but

the thing is, any contact from her triggers me into a panic right now. It

doesn't matter if it's good or bad.

I can see now how difficult going NC is, because as I weigh that option, I think

about how it will affect my relationship with other family members. But this

panic and anxiety anytime I see her name or my cell phone shows she is calling

is just too much.

> > >Every thing you say makes perfect sense, and even reading what

> > >I wrote, makes me go " did you hear what you said, ?! " I

> > >guess I just feel like taking this action will start some kind

> > >of world war 3 in my family. I'm already estranged from a

> > >brother who behaves poorly towards people and who enables my

> > >mother as well.

> > >

> > >I hid all her posts on Facebook, and I'm going to weigh the

> > >pros and cons of blocking her on Facebook. She is definitely

> > >using it to pretend nothing is wrong. Because before this

> > >episode, she used to IM me through her AOL account, almost

> > >everyday, and she hasn't tried to actually talk to me at all.

> > >It's like if she can post little comments and I don't do

> > >anything, then everything is okay, right? WRONG.

> > >

> > >I'm going to talk to a therapist, and I think I have to limit

> > >my contact--but frankly I want her to know I'm limiting my

> > >contact because of her behavior--it's like I want it on record

> > >or something.

> > >

> > >Re: my friends-they are very good people, I think they just

> > >don't know what to say to me because they have no experience

> > >with family like this. I don't think they'd walk away if I

> > >started crying in front of them. I just think they have no idea

> > >what to do. One of my closest friends is actually a doctoral

> > >student here from England, and she's just naturally a little

> > >more formal.

> > >

> > >It just feels good to admit that I clearly have a problem. That

> > >my own feelings on this matter are not dissipating and the

> > >shock and trauma is not just going to fade away. But in writing

> > >this it's also becoming clear to me that if she is going to

> > >cause such psychological trauma in my life, that I have to go

> > >as LC as possible.

> > >

> > >This is really hard. Up until this minute I still had this hope

> > >that everything could be normal. I'm realizing now I had moved

> > >so far away and covered this whole thing up--I mean the whole

> > >thing, my childhood, how she behaved in the past, being an

> > >adult when I was a kid, etc. But it never went away, I just

> > >built my life around it like volcano. And now the volcano is

> > >erupting.

> >

> > --

> > Katrina

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi .

Sorry your Christmas was spoiled by a BP outburst.

-but mother flew into a violent rage, was hyperparanoid the whole time,

and in the end we all spent 2 days not being able to talk to anyone in

the house because of her paranoia-

In short, your nada displayed BP behaviors, manipulated everyone by

using FOG, and the family spent the weekend walking on eggshells. That

is the story of our lives, until we take them back. And we can, if we

choose it.

any contact from my mother, the trauma starts all over again.

(like nothing was wrong and she hadn't said these awful things about and

to me),

Typical BP. The nasty behaviors work for her. She is in charge. And

of course she did nothing wrong. She can do or say whatever she wants

to. It is all someone elses problem and fault. Most of us KO s are

suffering from PTSD to some extent, and of course when you are still

being subjected to the traumas, you can t begin to heal.

my guess is that she would deny it all happened anyways--and I haven't

stated any actual boundaries with her.

Sure she would. Gaslighting, remembering reality different than it

really was. Boundaries are good. I firmly believe in them in dealing

with BPs. However, we get into distorted thinking because we are

trained to put up with so much. If your Nada had torn off all her

clothes, urinated on the Christmas presents, and ran down the street

pole dancing on utility poles, would you think , oh, Gee, I should have

established boundaries? I m illustrating by absurdity of course, but

that behavior is so clearly outrageous that any reasonable person would

say NONSENSE! How dare you behave in that manner around me. The

behaviors you described on her part are no less outrageous, but you and

your FOO have been trained for decades to minimize it, deny it, over

look it.

Let me assure you, from an objective point of view, that nothing you

failed to say accounts for her behavior. It was unacceptable for

anyone. And you need not have said so in advance to be justified in

rejecting it.

I get severely depressed and just want to go sleep. But then when I do

sleep, I have all these awful dreams concerning her. I haven't had one

night of peace since I returned--all awful dreams.

You are probably depressed. I would be amazed if you were not. You can

get help dealing with that. I know. I m dealing with it myself. It is a

long slow process, but it is worth it.

> I don't want to hang out with friends because I don't feel normal

anymore. I mean, I want to, but I'm scared to because I might just start

crying. I tried to tell my friends about what happened, but they just

didn't understand--and I think they were also embarrassed that I was

sharing it with them.

It is hard. You need safe, healthy people around you. You need to be

able to express your anger, and grief , and embarrassment at her

behaviors. Perhaps you can find one friend that you can share with.

Just one. And if your tears are still so ready at the drop of a hat, I

repeat what I said about depression. Do you have a Therapist? If not,

I d really urge you to find one and get some help.

>

> I haven't been able to talk to my stepfather to get an update about

what happened. Everyone in my family is downplaying it like it wasn't

that big of a deal. I'm sitting here, freaking traumatized, and they're

acting like nothing happened!

FOO s and flying monkeys usually deal with it by walking on eggshells,

and denying that there is a problem. Denial will kill you. It was a

big deal. It was a big deal to you, whether it was to them or not. You

don t have to justify your reactions to the behavior. You may be all

alone as far as your FOO is concerned when you say , enough, no more.

It takes strength, and courage, and maybe, just a tiny bit of anger. I

think you ve got it.

>

> I can block my mom entirely on Facebook, but what do I say to her when

I do that?

Not a frigging word! I get on my soapbox about this. We KO s tend to

think so, but we DO not have to justify or explain not friending on FB,

not answering our phone, not being around someone. Take her off your

friend list and block her. Don t tell her a GD thing!

How do I have a conversation with a woman who doesn't acknowledge that

anything is wrong, that she did anything wrong, or that anything even

happened?

You don t. At most, you can try, if you prefer, to talk to her abour

your boundaries, and what will happen each time she violates them. You

can tell her her behaviors at Christmas were totally out of line, and

you are not about to accept that ever again. If she turns abusive as

you try, just terminate the conversation and leave, or hang up.

I don't want to hurt her, but it's been almost three weeks, and I

haven't been able to move on because my abuser is still abusing me,

basically.

You do hurt her, just by not being everything she wants you to be every

second. But no one can, and she sets herself up to be hurt. In her

mind, for you to live your life and do anything other than exactly what

she wants is hurting her. She will not permit you to live without

hurting her, in her mind.

It s a trap of obligation and guilt. Again, you don t heal from PTSD

while the trauma is still going on. Under the circumstances you

describe, I would most likely go to NC with her for a time. Even if

that also means NC from FOO. And with her not able to further

traumatize you, get some professional help with your depression, and

PTSD. And take the time to learn about BP, get stronger, until you are

ready , perhaps, to try LC.

You don t owe her the right to live and ruin your life. Take it back.

Doug

[Guest guest]

Hi .

Sorry your Christmas was spoiled by a BP outburst.

-but mother flew into a violent rage, was hyperparanoid the whole time,

and in the end we all spent 2 days not being able to talk to anyone in

the house because of her paranoia-

In short, your nada displayed BP behaviors, manipulated everyone by

using FOG, and the family spent the weekend walking on eggshells. That

is the story of our lives, until we take them back. And we can, if we

choose it.

any contact from my mother, the trauma starts all over again.

(like nothing was wrong and she hadn't said these awful things about and

to me),

Typical BP. The nasty behaviors work for her. She is in charge. And

of course she did nothing wrong. She can do or say whatever she wants

to. It is all someone elses problem and fault. Most of us KO s are

suffering from PTSD to some extent, and of course when you are still

being subjected to the traumas, you can t begin to heal.

my guess is that she would deny it all happened anyways--and I haven't

stated any actual boundaries with her.

Sure she would. Gaslighting, remembering reality different than it

really was. Boundaries are good. I firmly believe in them in dealing

with BPs. However, we get into distorted thinking because we are

trained to put up with so much. If your Nada had torn off all her

clothes, urinated on the Christmas presents, and ran down the street

pole dancing on utility poles, would you think , oh, Gee, I should have

established boundaries? I m illustrating by absurdity of course, but

that behavior is so clearly outrageous that any reasonable person would

say NONSENSE! How dare you behave in that manner around me. The

behaviors you described on her part are no less outrageous, but you and

your FOO have been trained for decades to minimize it, deny it, over

look it.

Let me assure you, from an objective point of view, that nothing you

failed to say accounts for her behavior. It was unacceptable for

anyone. And you need not have said so in advance to be justified in

rejecting it.

I get severely depressed and just want to go sleep. But then when I do

sleep, I have all these awful dreams concerning her. I haven't had one

night of peace since I returned--all awful dreams.

You are probably depressed. I would be amazed if you were not. You can

get help dealing with that. I know. I m dealing with it myself. It is a

long slow process, but it is worth it.

> I don't want to hang out with friends because I don't feel normal

anymore. I mean, I want to, but I'm scared to because I might just start

crying. I tried to tell my friends about what happened, but they just

didn't understand--and I think they were also embarrassed that I was

sharing it with them.

It is hard. You need safe, healthy people around you. You need to be

able to express your anger, and grief , and embarrassment at her

behaviors. Perhaps you can find one friend that you can share with.

Just one. And if your tears are still so ready at the drop of a hat, I

repeat what I said about depression. Do you have a Therapist? If not,

I d really urge you to find one and get some help.

>

> I haven't been able to talk to my stepfather to get an update about

what happened. Everyone in my family is downplaying it like it wasn't

that big of a deal. I'm sitting here, freaking traumatized, and they're

acting like nothing happened!

FOO s and flying monkeys usually deal with it by walking on eggshells,

and denying that there is a problem. Denial will kill you. It was a

big deal. It was a big deal to you, whether it was to them or not. You

don t have to justify your reactions to the behavior. You may be all

alone as far as your FOO is concerned when you say , enough, no more.

It takes strength, and courage, and maybe, just a tiny bit of anger. I

think you ve got it.

>

> I can block my mom entirely on Facebook, but what do I say to her when

I do that?

Not a frigging word! I get on my soapbox about this. We KO s tend to

think so, but we DO not have to justify or explain not friending on FB,

not answering our phone, not being around someone. Take her off your

friend list and block her. Don t tell her a GD thing!

How do I have a conversation with a woman who doesn't acknowledge that

anything is wrong, that she did anything wrong, or that anything even

happened?

You don t. At most, you can try, if you prefer, to talk to her abour

your boundaries, and what will happen each time she violates them. You

can tell her her behaviors at Christmas were totally out of line, and

you are not about to accept that ever again. If she turns abusive as

you try, just terminate the conversation and leave, or hang up.

I don't want to hurt her, but it's been almost three weeks, and I

haven't been able to move on because my abuser is still abusing me,

basically.

You do hurt her, just by not being everything she wants you to be every

second. But no one can, and she sets herself up to be hurt. In her

mind, for you to live your life and do anything other than exactly what

she wants is hurting her. She will not permit you to live without

hurting her, in her mind.

It s a trap of obligation and guilt. Again, you don t heal from PTSD

while the trauma is still going on. Under the circumstances you

describe, I would most likely go to NC with her for a time. Even if

that also means NC from FOO. And with her not able to further

traumatize you, get some professional help with your depression, and

PTSD. And take the time to learn about BP, get stronger, until you are

ready , perhaps, to try LC.

You don t owe her the right to live and ruin your life. Take it back.

Doug

[Guest guest]

EAP s, Employee Assistance Programs, will pay for a certain limited

number of visists with a mental health pro. Use that, and one of the

things you can do with the MHP you see is ask for help sorting out what

benefits you have and what they will take.

You might also benefit from a depression support group.

Tell her, don t tell her. But do it because it is what you WANT to do,

not what you probably SHOULD do. Should is FOG talking.

One of the things nada squeezes out of you is a feeling you have a right

to do things for your own benefit.

Fault her for breaking it....is still FOG thinking. The purpose of

boundaries is not to punish nada, or to establish a winner or loser. It

is to fence off a safe place for YOU. If they violate, you pull back

and refuse to let them abuse you further.

I agree that an email is appropriate. You might use the BIFF

principle for communication with her. Here is a link about using it in

emails.

http://www.highconflictinstitute.com/index.php?option=com_content & view=a\

rticle & id=30 & Itemid=101

In brief, BIFF is

BRIEF

Keep your response brief. This will reduce the chances of a prolonged

and angry back and forth. The more you write, the more the other person

will be tempted to criticize in your writing. It also signals that you

don't wish to get into a dialogue. Just make your response, then

end your letter.

Don't take their statements personally (even if they were intended

as personal attacks) and don't respond with an item-by-item

personal attack. It just escalates the conflict and keeps it going and

going and going.

You don't have to defend yourself to someone you disagree with. If

your friends still like you, you don't have to prove anything to

those who don't.

INFORMATIVE

Focus on the accurate statements you want to make, not on the

inaccurate statement the other person made. For example: " Just to

clear things up, I was out of state on a trip on February 12th, so I

would not have been the person who was making loud noises that

day. "

Avoid negative comments, like little digs. Avoid sarcasm. Avoid

threats. Especially avoid personal remarks, like those about

someone's intelligence, ethics or moral behavior. If the other

person has a " high conflict personality, " you will have no

success in reducing the conflict with personal attacks. While most

people can ignore personal attacks or might think harder about what you

are saying, high conflict people feel they have no choice but to

respond in anger – and keep the conflict going and going. Personal

attacks rarely lead to insight or positive change.

FRIENDLY

While you may be tempted to write a response in anger, you are much

more likely to reach your goal by writing in a friendly (and brief)

manner. Consciously thinking about a friendly response will increase

your chances of getting a friendly – or neutral response – in

return. If your goal is to end the conflict, then being friendly has

the greatest likelihood of success.

This does not mean that you have to be overly friendly. Just make it

sound a little relaxed and non-antagonistic. Make it sound like you

recognize their concerns. Brief comments that show your Empathy,

Attention and Respect (E.A.R.) will generally calm the other person

down, even if only for a short time.

FIRM

In a non-threatening way, clearly tell the other person your

information or position on an issue. (For example: " That's all

I'm going to say on this issue. " ) Be careful not to make

comments that leave the door open to more discussion, unless you are

negotiating an issue or want to keep a dialogue going back and forth.

(Avoid comments that leave an opening, such as: " I hope you will

agree with me that this does not need further discussion. " This

invites the other person to tell you " I don't agree. " )

Sound confident and don't ask for more information, if you want to

end the back-and-forth. A confident-sounding person is less likely to

be challenged with further emails. If you get further emails anyway,

you can ignore them, if you have sufficiently addressed the inaccurate

information already. If you need to respond again, keep it even briefer

and do not emotionally engage. In fact, it often helps to just repeat

the key information using the same words. ( " As I said in my email of

March 6th, that is all I am going to say on this subject. " )

I know it s tough. You re worth it. Good luck.

Doug

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Doug. Seriously, you have really helped me. I will probably sleep on it

for a day or two, then send begin the business of NC.

[Guest guest]

Update: I haven't gone NC yet, but I've hidden her profile on Facebook and

removed her from my IM lists. Not seeing her posts or even her name on my IM

list is like a sigh of relief.

I'm going to let it go on this extremely LC for a little while and see if my

anxiety/panic attacks feel any better. Although the nightmares still haven't

stopped. I think that will take a little therapy or just time.

>

> Hi all,

>

> Over the past few weeks I've trying to recover from the horrific incident that

was my Christmas (I posted it elsewhere but long story short, but mother flew

into a violent rage, was hyperparanoid the whole time, and in the end we all

spent 2 days not being able to talk to anyone in the house because of her

paranoia--2 days snowed in without being able to have any conversation and only

basic cable and a broken DVD player).

>

> The thing is, anytime there is any contact from my mother, the trauma starts

all over again. I mean, we've barely talked since Christmas--only one phone call

that lasted 2 seconds for her to say Happy New Year. The rest has been via

Facebook. At first she commented on my posts (like nothing was wrong and she

hadn't said these awful things about and to me), so I took your advice and made

it so she can still be a friend on Facebook, but not comment. Then, I got my

hair cut (13.5 inches off) and posted some pics to Facebook. Since she couldn't

comment, she sent me a Facebook email. Then this morning, she posted all the

pics from Xmas and tagged me in them.

>

> Now, I haven't had any conversation with her about what happened--my guess is

that she would deny it all happened anyways--and I haven't stated any actual

boundaries with her. But I think it's time to. Every time I have any contact

with her, it triggers me now. I get severely depressed and just want to go

sleep. But then when I do sleep, I have all these awful dreams concerning her. I

haven't had one night of peace since I returned--all awful dreams.

>

> I don't want to hang out with friends because I don't feel normal anymore. I

mean, I want to, but I'm scared to because I might just start crying. I tried to

tell my friends about what happened, but they just didn't understand--and I

think they were also embarrassed that I was sharing it with them.

>

> I haven't been able to talk to my stepfather to get an update about what

happened. Everyone in my family is downplaying it like it wasn't that big of a

deal. I'm sitting here, freaking traumatized, and they're acting like nothing

happened!

>

> I can block my mom entirely on Facebook, but what do I say to her when I do

that? How do I have a conversation with a woman who doesn't acknowledge that

anything is wrong, that she did anything wrong, or that anything even happened?

I don't want to hurt her, but it's been almost three weeks, and I haven't been

able to move on because my abuser is still abusing me, basically.

>

> Please help. I need this year to turn around.

>

> Thanks to all,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Update: I haven't gone NC yet, but I've hidden her profile on Facebook and

removed her from my IM lists. Not seeing her posts or even her name on my IM

list is like a sigh of relief.

I'm going to let it go on this extremely LC for a little while and see if my

anxiety/panic attacks feel any better. Although the nightmares still haven't

stopped. I think that will take a little therapy or just time.

>

> Hi all,

>

> Over the past few weeks I've trying to recover from the horrific incident that

was my Christmas (I posted it elsewhere but long story short, but mother flew

into a violent rage, was hyperparanoid the whole time, and in the end we all

spent 2 days not being able to talk to anyone in the house because of her

paranoia--2 days snowed in without being able to have any conversation and only

basic cable and a broken DVD player).

>

> The thing is, anytime there is any contact from my mother, the trauma starts

all over again. I mean, we've barely talked since Christmas--only one phone call

that lasted 2 seconds for her to say Happy New Year. The rest has been via

Facebook. At first she commented on my posts (like nothing was wrong and she

hadn't said these awful things about and to me), so I took your advice and made

it so she can still be a friend on Facebook, but not comment. Then, I got my

hair cut (13.5 inches off) and posted some pics to Facebook. Since she couldn't

comment, she sent me a Facebook email. Then this morning, she posted all the

pics from Xmas and tagged me in them.

>

> Now, I haven't had any conversation with her about what happened--my guess is

that she would deny it all happened anyways--and I haven't stated any actual

boundaries with her. But I think it's time to. Every time I have any contact

with her, it triggers me now. I get severely depressed and just want to go

sleep. But then when I do sleep, I have all these awful dreams concerning her. I

haven't had one night of peace since I returned--all awful dreams.

>

> I don't want to hang out with friends because I don't feel normal anymore. I

mean, I want to, but I'm scared to because I might just start crying. I tried to

tell my friends about what happened, but they just didn't understand--and I

think they were also embarrassed that I was sharing it with them.

>

> I haven't been able to talk to my stepfather to get an update about what

happened. Everyone in my family is downplaying it like it wasn't that big of a

deal. I'm sitting here, freaking traumatized, and they're acting like nothing

happened!

>

> I can block my mom entirely on Facebook, but what do I say to her when I do

that? How do I have a conversation with a woman who doesn't acknowledge that

anything is wrong, that she did anything wrong, or that anything even happened?

I don't want to hurt her, but it's been almost three weeks, and I haven't been

able to move on because my abuser is still abusing me, basically.

>

> Please help. I need this year to turn around.

>

> Thanks to all,

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm also not a therapist or anything, but I agree with Annie. Lots of

healing hugs to you, ! You're sure not alone, and you don't have to

go through this alone. A psychologist can help a lot, and so can being on

this list =)

Try to take care of YOU.

Mia

[Guest guest]

I'm also not a therapist or anything, but I agree with Annie. Lots of

healing hugs to you, ! You're sure not alone, and you don't have to

go through this alone. A psychologist can help a lot, and so can being on

this list =)

Try to take care of YOU.

Mia

[Guest guest]

I'm also not a therapist or anything, but I agree with Annie. Lots of

healing hugs to you, ! You're sure not alone, and you don't have to

go through this alone. A psychologist can help a lot, and so can being on

this list =)

Try to take care of YOU.

Mia

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

I can see that you are getting much-needed validation and support here from the

sheer volume of replies. Isn't this Group amazing?!!!

I just wanted to chime in because I struggled so much with nightmares myself.

They are so weird and terrible - I would almost describe them as demonic. I'm

not a religious freak, but it feels like the actual devil in some of them. I

wonder if it's my mind's way of personifying the evil of BPD behavior.

I have suspicions (and some confirmations) of neglect from my infancy. My mom

was divorced, working in a bar nights and an alcoholic. My step-father

confirmed that he found me unattended and crying with nada passed out on the

floor. Other than that, it's hard to tell because no one was there to witness.

I do know my 4 year-old sister was responsible for me and changed my diapers.

Bless her heart. I also know I had a severe diaper rash (duh), breathing

difficulties requiring hospitalization in an oxygen tent and hearing loss from

ear infections (almost deaf in one ear).

Somehow, I " feel " like I remember her hurting me. I have no way to confirm this

and have always denied this sense. Perhaps it was the extreme neglect while

ill, etc. But I am so intensely afraid of her - of my memory of her younger

self anyway. Not so much now.

Just wanted to share that you are not crazy or weird or different at all. In

fact, having a normal reaction to abusive behavior is NORMAL. Your friends

might not understand the situation, but don't feel isolated. You are not alone.

We are all here; and some of them probably have difficult things to deal with in

their lives as well. You are obviously an intelligent and caring person. Hang

in there and work through this. It will be worth it. (Just look at Doug and

Annie and KT and Girlscout and others! What if we can get to a place like that

- actually able to help other people out of our pain?)

Love and Peace,

+Coal Miner's Daughter :-)

>

> Update: I haven't gone NC yet, but I've hidden her profile on Facebook and

removed her from my IM lists. Not seeing her posts or even her name on my IM

list is like a sigh of relief.

>

> I'm going to let it go on this extremely LC for a little while and see if my

anxiety/panic attacks feel any better. Although the nightmares still haven't

stopped. I think that will take a little therapy or just time.

>

>