Re: Message from step sister

[Guest guest]

Thanks Katrina. I guess most people don't get it if I tell them my fears

like this. Then again, most people don't have BPD nadas & fadas.... and

flying monkeys lol.

We'll see what happens now. Like I said in my reply to Doug, I really need

to work on putting up boundaries and sticking to them. This just might be

an opportunity for that. Still scares the daylights out of me though.

And yeah, it is a very nada-like thing to do. Granted, I can't be sure nada

put her up to it, but I can't be sure she didn't.

I used to call this paranoia... my therapist said it's not. She said it's

hyper vigilance. I totally see the difference now but still wonder if it's

just a euphemism for paranoia. But again, I think normal (non BPD FOO)

people don't see it that way & just don't get it and smack you in the head

with that label that says " crazy " .

One day it would be nice to just say something like " No, I " m not crazy. I'm

just the child of a borderline " and for everyone to go " oooh ok " LOL

Mia

[Guest guest]

lol Girlscout

Mia

On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Girlscout Cowboy <

girlscout.cowboy@...> wrote:

> FOG FOG FOG Alert

> Flying monkey - DUCKKKK

>

> I say block her ass on facebook. Bye bye step SIL named " "

>

[Guest guest]

lol Girlscout

Mia

On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Girlscout Cowboy <

girlscout.cowboy@...> wrote:

> FOG FOG FOG Alert

> Flying monkey - DUCKKKK

>

> I say block her ass on facebook. Bye bye step SIL named " "

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Anyway, I'm going to shut up now because I feel incredibly stupid for

> sharing that fear.

>

>

Others beat me to it...but it sounds like there's a thought in there that you

might need to challenge. (i.e., " It is wrong for me to have these feelings and

I'm stupid if I share them. " )

Where did it come from? Is it true? If not, what can you replace it with?

Feelings are feelings; they aren't right or wrong. They are often good

indicators about what our personal limits are, even if we've been taught to

ignore them or that we don't deserve personal limits. When we listen to our

feelings, we can find out a lot about what we need.

You have a right to feel fear that your mother will violate your boundary and

intrude on your private life. Your fear isn't right, it isn't wrong, it's just

what you feel. If you wonder whether the thinking that leads to the fear is

irrational, examine the facts: Her past behaviors are evidence that she is

willing and able to do this to you. As far as you know, she has not made any

significant changes in her behavior and is not remorseful about it. An object

in motion will stay in motion unless acted on by an outside force; in other

words, past behavior is a good predictor of future behavior, unless there is a

decision to change it. Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that it is

possible for her to continue to do the same thing in the future.

It seems to me that the thoughts you are having about the possibility of your

mother invading your medical privacy are based in fact, and the feeling of fear

is a good indicator that you need to take steps to protect yourself. Others

have given good suggestions for that.

This is a safe place to share. We are all recovering here. I do not think it

is stupid to be honest about feelings; in fact, I think it is necessary to be

honest in order to grow and heal.

So, good job!

KT

PS, Yes, your doctor broke the law when he spoke to your mother without your

consent. You would be within your rights to report the incident to the state

medical licensing or ethics board.

[Guest guest]

>

> Anyway, I'm going to shut up now because I feel incredibly stupid for

> sharing that fear.

>

>

Others beat me to it...but it sounds like there's a thought in there that you

might need to challenge. (i.e., " It is wrong for me to have these feelings and

I'm stupid if I share them. " )

Where did it come from? Is it true? If not, what can you replace it with?

Feelings are feelings; they aren't right or wrong. They are often good

indicators about what our personal limits are, even if we've been taught to

ignore them or that we don't deserve personal limits. When we listen to our

feelings, we can find out a lot about what we need.

You have a right to feel fear that your mother will violate your boundary and

intrude on your private life. Your fear isn't right, it isn't wrong, it's just

what you feel. If you wonder whether the thinking that leads to the fear is

irrational, examine the facts: Her past behaviors are evidence that she is

willing and able to do this to you. As far as you know, she has not made any

significant changes in her behavior and is not remorseful about it. An object

in motion will stay in motion unless acted on by an outside force; in other

words, past behavior is a good predictor of future behavior, unless there is a

decision to change it. Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that it is

possible for her to continue to do the same thing in the future.

It seems to me that the thoughts you are having about the possibility of your

mother invading your medical privacy are based in fact, and the feeling of fear

is a good indicator that you need to take steps to protect yourself. Others

have given good suggestions for that.

This is a safe place to share. We are all recovering here. I do not think it

is stupid to be honest about feelings; in fact, I think it is necessary to be

honest in order to grow and heal.

So, good job!

KT

PS, Yes, your doctor broke the law when he spoke to your mother without your

consent. You would be within your rights to report the incident to the state

medical licensing or ethics board.

[Guest guest]

I know she still has

> my original social security card...

If it makes you feel more secure, I think you can report the card stolen and

apply for a new number.

[Guest guest]

I have to say... everytime I see FOG - I remember what I used to think it stood

for (and I still think it's very accurate): Fear OBLITERATION Guilt.

Lynnette

>

> >

> >

> >

> > -

> >

> > >

> > Before surgery #2 when nada insisted I was only doing it for

> > > attention, etc... I told her not to show up, and she did anyway. (And

> > though

> > > I told the doctor not to talk to anyone but my now exhusband, he

> > talked to

> > > nada anyway! Arg!)

> >

> > Your Dr screwed up. That is a HIPPA violation. Before you go in for

> > surgery, ask for a form to sign and keep in your chart stating your

> > limits on who can be informed and who can decidedly NOT be informed

> > about your medical condition.

> > Make if very clear, before they get any anesthetics into you, that the

> > Hospital does NOT have your permission to discuss your treatment or

> > condition with your mother, who they may contact, and let them know

> > very specifically what the Dr did before. And say, there will NOT be a

> > repeat of that this time. Or I will file a complaint for a HIPPA

> > violation.

> >

> > People in the health care professions get fired over such things.

> >

> >

> > But there is still that fear after having dealt

> > > with a serial boundary violator my whole life. So I do think the

> > timing of

> > > step sis's message was bad, regardless if they know what's going on or

> > not.

> > >

> > > Anyway, I'm going to shut up now because I feel incredibly stupid for

> > > sharing that fear.

> >

> > It is NOT a a stupid fear. My mother died about 18 months ago, when I

> > was 53. I had only found out about BP and established boundaries with

> > her about 5 years before. I was on LC with her, because every week or

> > so she would again violate my boundary, and I would immediately enforce

> > it with a period of NC.

> >

> > You can claim your life. You don t have to justify your feelings or

> > your choices of who gets to be in your life.

> >

> > >

> > > Mia

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Lol! Somehow that reminds me of one of cartoonist Matt Groenig's books: " Work

Is Hell " , in which he illustrated the " 9 Kinds of Bosses " . " The Boss-Monster

From Hell " was screaming in rage, " How DARE you duck when I throw things at

you?! "

I think that's why I always loved reading heroic or fairy-tale stories, because

the hero was going up against an impossibly powerful foe who could and would

OBLITERATE the hero for challenging their authority. And the hero always wins,

in fairy-tales.

We weren't even allowed to *think* about defying our nada, Sister and I. She

WAS indeed all-powerful and had the right and the ability to obliterate us. It

was terrifying to me how often she seemed to *want* to do that, my own mother.

So when we do finally stand up and challenge or just walk fearlessly away from

the all-source of our childhood terror, its a pretty amazing act of courage.

-Annie

>

> I have to say... everytime I see FOG - I remember what I used to think it

stood for (and I still think it's very accurate): Fear OBLITERATION Guilt.

>

> Lynnette

[Guest guest]

> I need more practice at setting boundaries & putting my foot down.

It's

> still very scary for me.

Yes it is scary.

>

> I feel like I haven't really come that far in my recovery! Yet, I

know I

> have, but at the same time... I feel like I still have such a damn

long way

> to go.

It took you, what , 30 years to get to where you were when you began to

retake your life? It will take some time to grow strong and confident.

But it will happen. Patience.

> I guess I've been suckered again since I did sort of " middle chill "

reply to

> her (or whatever the name of that was, oops. I think Annie posted it.

It

> was awesome.)

>

> I could put a positive spin on this though... I said I need more

practice at

> setting boundaries & putting my foot down, right? LOL... I may just

get that

> opportunity now. Oy.

>

> I also realize I am in no way shape or form obligated to reply to her.

If I

> chose to do so again, I can do it on my terms, on my time. I am having

> surgery tomorrow. I am not taking my lap top to the hospital. If she

> replies while I'm there and I'm too " loopy " to reply when I get

home... meh!

> I can do it IF I want to, WHEN I want to. No rush.

>

> WHy should I bend over backwards to please someone who's also violated

my

> boundaries? Yes, I was trained to do that. I have GOT to untrain

myself of

> that.

>

> As for what happened with the doctor breaking HIPPA, I'm aware, FULLY

aware

> of what he did and how wrong it was. I was aware when this happened

which

> was long before becoming a nursing student. My ex husband even

witnessed

> it. I asked him the next day if I had really seen that (It was

outpatient

> surgery & I was obviously still under the effects of anesthesia & pain

> medications). He said, " yes. Do you want to call a lawyer? "

>

> We had talked about it for quite awhile and came to the conclusion it

would

> be our word against his. Now I realize that by not taking action, I

allowed

> myself to be victimized again.

Even though it was a couple of years ago, and you chose not to deal with

it at the time, I would, and this is just me, contact the Dr. , perhaps

by a letter. Remind him what happened. Tell him why, aside from

violating your instructions, it was a wrong thing to tell your mom

anything. Remind him that is was a HIPPA violation, and hospitals do

take that very seriously. And I would conclude by saying that at the

time you chose not to address the problem because of not being sure if

anyone would believe you. But that if that were to happen to you today,

you would immediatley ask to speak to the Hospital Administrator. And

that you sincerely hope that he takes this seriously and makes sure to

talk to in the future.

> I have all ready expressed to my doctor that she is to speak to no one

other

> than my fiance. Again, I realize the fear of nada showing up when I'm

now

> 200 miles away is a bit out there, but as I said... serial boundary

violator

> and as she likes to prey on me when I'm weak, this would be a prime

> opportunity for her. Also, she is my nada after all... I know she

still has

> my original social security card... nadas like mine have a way of

getting

> what they want. I do feel she is equip with enough information to

find me.

>

> But yes, I fully intend to make sure there is not a repeat of that

breach in

> confidentiality and will make sure that everything is crystal clear

before I

> sign consent forms. (They won't medicate you until after you've signed

> them).

>

> And if nada did show up, I can push the call light & get a nurse, I

can pick

> up the phone & call security & hell... I can yell for help.

>

> I do often feel helpless about dealing with her & FOO, but I tend to

bounce

> back much more quickly then I did even 3 years ago. Doug, your

replies were

> empowering and really just what I needed right now, Thanks a ton,

really. I

> am grateful.

>

> Mia

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

(((((Mia)))))

I don't think it's a stupid fear!!!!! The timing totally SUCKS.It

reminds me of how small children seem to just have a " radar " for that moment

when you finally have time to make yourself a cup of tea or stretch out on the

sofa or something and boom they wake up from their nap like they

*know*,lol...maybe BPDs have a similar " radar " like very small children--it is

pretty odd how they'll often show up or crop up with some needy problem at

either othe worst time or just when you've gotten some equilibrium or when you

have something going on you need to tend to for yourself.

They don't know you're having surgery,so although your fear is

understandable it's highly unlikely they'll show up.I can't see how they would.I

am visualizing positive thoughts of it all going well and you recuperating in

peace.And just wanting to tell you that I will have you in my thoughts tomorrow

and will be wishing you all the best with your surgery and recovery.

(((((Take care)))))

[Guest guest]

(((((Mia)))))

I don't think it's a stupid fear!!!!! The timing totally SUCKS.It

reminds me of how small children seem to just have a " radar " for that moment

when you finally have time to make yourself a cup of tea or stretch out on the

sofa or something and boom they wake up from their nap like they

*know*,lol...maybe BPDs have a similar " radar " like very small children--it is

pretty odd how they'll often show up or crop up with some needy problem at

either othe worst time or just when you've gotten some equilibrium or when you

have something going on you need to tend to for yourself.

They don't know you're having surgery,so although your fear is

understandable it's highly unlikely they'll show up.I can't see how they would.I

am visualizing positive thoughts of it all going well and you recuperating in

peace.And just wanting to tell you that I will have you in my thoughts tomorrow

and will be wishing you all the best with your surgery and recovery.

(((((Take care)))))

[Guest guest]

(((((Mia)))))

I don't think it's a stupid fear!!!!! The timing totally SUCKS.It

reminds me of how small children seem to just have a " radar " for that moment

when you finally have time to make yourself a cup of tea or stretch out on the

sofa or something and boom they wake up from their nap like they

*know*,lol...maybe BPDs have a similar " radar " like very small children--it is

pretty odd how they'll often show up or crop up with some needy problem at

either othe worst time or just when you've gotten some equilibrium or when you

have something going on you need to tend to for yourself.

They don't know you're having surgery,so although your fear is

understandable it's highly unlikely they'll show up.I can't see how they would.I

am visualizing positive thoughts of it all going well and you recuperating in

peace.And just wanting to tell you that I will have you in my thoughts tomorrow

and will be wishing you all the best with your surgery and recovery.

(((((Take care)))))

[Guest guest]

Thanks ((())) I appreciate that.

It feels like never ending agony just waiting. Just want this over with.

Mia

>

[Guest guest]

Dough you are the best!!!! I yust LOVE to read your posts. Simple and strait to

the point.

Let the force be with you :-)

Yenaine

Sent via BlackBerry from Vodafone

Re: Message from step sister

If you put a Borderline in a room with a hundred people, and one person

who is the type who will marry them, they will find each other.

You often see family clusters of BP s. If your step dad married your

nada, fair chance his first was a BP as well. Equally fair chance that

his son would marry a BP.

So, SIL may be a BP.

You wrote

I tried to set my boundaries and asked her not to bring up nada because

I didn't want to talk about it.

As Yoda said, there is not try! Do! Or do not! But choose. You don t

try to set boundaries, you set them. You establish the consequences of

breaking your boundaries. And when people choose to ignore you and

violate them you pull the trigger on the consequences. If that is no

contact, then that is what it is.

YOU wrote

>

> Well, she sent a few more, one which I think was most likely a lie

based on

> manipulation by nada, I don't know. Something about, " Just thought

you'd

> want to know that your mom had surgery & is doing fine " . I simply

replied

> along the lines of " glad she's ok " .

An appropriate, and fully justified reply here would be . " Look

. ( just made up a name for her) I told you before not to bring up

my mother as I did not choose to discuss her with you or anyone else.

Since you cannot seem to abide by my desires, I m not going to have any

further contact with you. You are free to have whatever relationship

you want with my Mom, and I m not trying to control your choices. But my

choices are that I won t have a relationship with people who insist on

discussing her with me. So , goodbye. Please do not contact me

anymore. "

And that is how you enforce a boundary. You do NOT owe her a

relationship.

YOU wrote

being a 4.0 student, but would

> take the time to comment on a little rant about people in my house not

> picking up after themselves with something like " Looks like it's time

to

> find a new place to live " . Really? She doesn't even have the first

clue

> about my situation. Anyway, it was after that " dig " that I removed

her.

First of all, your FOO didnt say so, but CONGRATS on 4.0! Smart, and

hard working, and you are to be congratulated for it.

My response to her dig about time to find a new place to live would be

either

1. Bite me , Bitch.

or

2. You know nothing about me or my life. How dare you choose to make

such a snarky little remark.

You do NOT have to have a relationship with people who are toxic to you,

and this woman is. FOG alert, KO s are taught by nada that you ARE

obligated to LOVE ME, I M the MOTHER, regardless how awful she is. So

it is hard to realize that no, we don t have to do that at all. Whether

she is a BP in her own right, or a flying monkey with lots of Nada

fleas, she is treating you just like a BP would.

> Well, it took her a while to realize that I had and I got a message

from her

> asking why I took her off. I didn't reply. Now she's messaged me

again.

>

> She was having some health issues last I knew about which I do totally

feel

> for her about having health issues of my own. But this message just

strikes

> up that fear feeling in my gut and makes me feel like... well, like a

kid.

> And being a KO I'm sure you all have a pretty good idea of how great

that

> was (not).

There are many people in the world who have health problems. Is it up

to you to go and befriend all of them? Even if they are assholes and

treat you like shit?

> I just read it to fiance who just looked at me puzzled & said, " that's

> weird " .

>

> Is it? Am I blowing this out of proportion or am I justified? I just

don't

> know. I would love to NOT blow her off but again, I can't help but

get that

> gut feeling of red flags going up all over the place.

>

YES!!! By God it is weird. If this woman is not BP in her own right, she

is a flying monkey for nada. You don t need to have a relationship with

a flying monkey. Trying to suck you into a relationship with tales of

her sickness is a FOG alert: trying to manipulate you with guilt.

I feel for her but I just don't feel comfortable with her after she

violated my

> clear boundaries of not wanting to talk about nada with her

That is ALL the reason you need. I DONT FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH HER. You

dont have to have contact with her. You don t have to make excuses why

you choose not to have a relationship with the wife of the son of your

crazy assed mother s new husband. Only us KO s could be feeling

ambivalence and guilt about that.

> Didn't need this right now.

Or ever. Look, I even wrote one out for you, you are free to use it.

You are NOT blowing her off, you are enforcing your boundaries. Her

illness is not a justification for her to treat you any way she wants.

It is the way a BP has of saying, you don t matter, you exist only as an

extension of myself.

" Look . ( just made up a name for her) I told you before not to

bring up my mother as I did not choose to discuss her with you or

anyone else. Since you cannot seem to abide by my desires, I m not

going to have any further contact with you.

I thought I had made this clear by removing you from my FB account, but

it seems not. And yes, it does seem like you are stalking me. So let

me be direct and perfectly unambiguous this time.

I told you not to mention my mom in conversations with me. You chose to

ignore me and press on and do it anyway. I find you condescending and

sarcastic, and do not appreciate it. So, I choose not to have

conversations or contact with you.

You are free to have whatever relationship you want with my Mom, and I

m not trying to control your choices. But my choices are that I won t

have a relationship with people who insist on discussing her with me.

So , goodbye. Please do not contact me anymore. "

>

> Mia

>

Several of us on here have found great help dealing with the toxic

people in our lives from the book , Safe People, by Cloud and Townsend.

I think you would too. I also predict you will find a description of

your mom, and your pseudo sister in law.

Good luck!

Doug