Re: I have no contact, but she wants back in.

[Guest guest]

I need a drink before I tackle this one. I ll be back to you.

Doug

[Guest guest]

I need a drink before I tackle this one. I ll be back to you.

Doug

[Guest guest]

I need a drink before I tackle this one. I ll be back to you.

Doug

[Guest guest]

pour me one too Doug. Sounds a lot like my nada.

Mia

>

>

> I need a drink before I tackle this one. I ll be back to you.

>

> Doug

>

[Guest guest]

pour me one too Doug. Sounds a lot like my nada.

Mia

>

>

> I need a drink before I tackle this one. I ll be back to you.

>

> Doug

>

[Guest guest]

pour me one too Doug. Sounds a lot like my nada.

Mia

>

>

> I need a drink before I tackle this one. I ll be back to you.

>

> Doug

>

[Guest guest]

Grewels, well, I'm a newbie at this stuff, but wow! Talk about a queen of guilt

trips. I'm really sorry she sent you those texts. I can imagine it's very

traumatic to receive such nastiness via cellphone from your nada.

Can you have the phone company block texts from her or change your phone number?

Contact should be on your terms. She shouldn't be able to disrupt your life at

will by sending a barrage of nasty texts to you.

You wrote this " I just can't let someone so hurtful back into my life so easily

without even a slight acknowledgment that they did something wrong. " There it

is. You laid it down. If she won't acknowledge what she's done to you (which my

understanding is that BPs will never do that) then you won't be in contact with

her. Is she aware of this boundary (I'm guessing you've said it to her before)?

You could (but don't have to) reiterate to her the boundaries that you have set

and state that if she is not willing to maintain contact within those

boundaries, then you will not see her.

Be firm, stick to your guns. You know what's good for you and what's healthy for

you. You can't save her, you can't save your baby brother. When he's old enough,

if he wants to seek you out, then he will. But your nada is right. Life is too

short. It's too short to spend it with people who only say hurtful things, who

don't care that they do things that are hurtful, and who can never take

responsibility for their actions or their emotions.

Stay strong.

[Guest guest]

Grewels, well, I'm a newbie at this stuff, but wow! Talk about a queen of guilt

trips. I'm really sorry she sent you those texts. I can imagine it's very

traumatic to receive such nastiness via cellphone from your nada.

Can you have the phone company block texts from her or change your phone number?

Contact should be on your terms. She shouldn't be able to disrupt your life at

will by sending a barrage of nasty texts to you.

You wrote this " I just can't let someone so hurtful back into my life so easily

without even a slight acknowledgment that they did something wrong. " There it

is. You laid it down. If she won't acknowledge what she's done to you (which my

understanding is that BPs will never do that) then you won't be in contact with

her. Is she aware of this boundary (I'm guessing you've said it to her before)?

You could (but don't have to) reiterate to her the boundaries that you have set

and state that if she is not willing to maintain contact within those

boundaries, then you will not see her.

Be firm, stick to your guns. You know what's good for you and what's healthy for

you. You can't save her, you can't save your baby brother. When he's old enough,

if he wants to seek you out, then he will. But your nada is right. Life is too

short. It's too short to spend it with people who only say hurtful things, who

don't care that they do things that are hurtful, and who can never take

responsibility for their actions or their emotions.

Stay strong.

[Guest guest]

Grewels, well, I'm a newbie at this stuff, but wow! Talk about a queen of guilt

trips. I'm really sorry she sent you those texts. I can imagine it's very

traumatic to receive such nastiness via cellphone from your nada.

Can you have the phone company block texts from her or change your phone number?

Contact should be on your terms. She shouldn't be able to disrupt your life at

will by sending a barrage of nasty texts to you.

You wrote this " I just can't let someone so hurtful back into my life so easily

without even a slight acknowledgment that they did something wrong. " There it

is. You laid it down. If she won't acknowledge what she's done to you (which my

understanding is that BPs will never do that) then you won't be in contact with

her. Is she aware of this boundary (I'm guessing you've said it to her before)?

You could (but don't have to) reiterate to her the boundaries that you have set

and state that if she is not willing to maintain contact within those

boundaries, then you will not see her.

Be firm, stick to your guns. You know what's good for you and what's healthy for

you. You can't save her, you can't save your baby brother. When he's old enough,

if he wants to seek you out, then he will. But your nada is right. Life is too

short. It's too short to spend it with people who only say hurtful things, who

don't care that they do things that are hurtful, and who can never take

responsibility for their actions or their emotions.

Stay strong.

[Guest guest]

Damn, out of everything but a Tawny Port. A little too sweet, but oh

well.

>

> >

> >

> > I need a drink before I tackle this one. I ll be back to you.

> >

> > Doug

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Damn, out of everything but a Tawny Port. A little too sweet, but oh

well.

>

> >

> >

> > I need a drink before I tackle this one. I ll be back to you.

> >

> > Doug

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Damn, out of everything but a Tawny Port. A little too sweet, but oh

well.

>

> >

> >

> > I need a drink before I tackle this one. I ll be back to you.

> >

> > Doug

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Whew.

In case you were wondering, yes, your mother IS BPD. I ve re ordered

your post below, and will try to break it down and give you some

feedback throughout in various places.

>

> I have actually had no contact with my mom for about a year now, I cut

her out of my life. I have a lot of guilt, and i get a lot of guilt

from everyone on that side of the family. Especially because the crisis

surrounding the time I " abandoned her " was the birth of my baby brother.

Due to cutting her out of my life, I have also cut my baby brother

out... She sends me picture messages of him, but I have not seen him

since I walked away because of the unhappiness she bring me.

Families typically do not understand the behaviors that drive those

closest, the victims of the borderline behavior away. And of course you

are going to get guilt from dear old mom.

Not seeing or knowing your baby brother is a terrible price to pay. It

is one of the prices we often do pay for choosing what will let us be

healthy after a relationship with a BPD parent; we lose other family as

well.

Something does prompt me to ask, though, if your mom had a baby a year

ago, how old are you? If you are an adult and she is having a baby

after " raising " a child, that is a pretty wide gap in between.

> She wants contact, and wants to talk again, but has never owned up to

what she did... and i know she probably never will. I just can't let

someone so hurtful back into my life so easily without even a slight

acknowledgment that they did something wrong.

If she is a BPD, she will not acknowledge any wrong she did. She will

blame it all on you, while she plays the victim. And whatever she did

to hurt, and the myriad things she did to hurt you for the years of your

life, she will certainly do again. Her text makes it obvious she is not

ready to change. She will also choose to remember the incidents very

differently than you do, and challenge your reality.

> Oh yea, and to be clear, i was the one humble enough to send cards

for each holiday, gifts for christmas and birthdays.... with no

response from her except a bitter text " enjoy your life with your new

family. " The only ounce of contact she has done was sending picture

messages of my brother. We did talk on christmas day, i thought things

might turn around from there in a positive way, but of course not.

She is not going to just turn around due to a conversation. You need to

start some reading about BPD. Start with SWOE, then move to the

Complete Family Guide to bpd. You can find both on BPDCentral.com.

> Her latest text to me reads:

> " So i can't sleep, I've let this go long enough. U need to talk to

me, i can't believe this is going on a year, u don't talk to us, or see

us, it's just not ok. Talk to me about us, deal with it, i'm your mom,

i raised you, it's not ok hurting like this not seeing n talking to me,

really, a year, really [my name].

No mention of her hurting you, I notice. It s all about her: I m your

mom, I raised you. If she is truly willing to deal with it, then I

would suggest that you start seeing a therapist if you have not done so

already. And when you are comfortable and ready, and you are sure the

therapist understands that your mom has BPD, then offer to meet her at a

family therapy session with your T, and begin to deal with it there. I

doubt she ll accept, but it is a safe way to hold open the door for a

relationship, without caving in to her blackmail.

This is how you're gunna be??? Your little brothers going to have

surgery on his bday, and your not even talking to us, like who cares

about mom and your brother... i brought you up as a single mom all your

life, good times and bad times. i didn't give you up n disown u. I've

tryed contacting u this past year, all i get is a cold shoulder, it's

not ok.

Has she really? Your post says she has not responded to your cards and

such other than one txt. This would be a standard BPD behavior,

gaslighting. Her memory of something is entirely different than y ours,

or reality.

You couldn't even see your little brother, really [my name], you don't

care that much??? no feelings for me or him, really, a year. your

mother deserves more respect... your brother doesn't even know his big

sister, thats just wrong n hurtful, at least i've tried to contact you

this year.

Again, really? And if she is concerned about your brother knowing you,

she can make arrangements so that you can visit him without her present.

This is not ok. We are alive, we are your family, you've punished me

long enough, and i've let this go long enough.

Does anyone but me notice this? Not, sorry, daughter, that I hurt you,

or if I hurt you in some way. Please forgive me, and lets try to work

out a relationship. Instead, typical BPD. You have punished me long

enough. So it is YOUR fault for punishing her , not her fault for the

temper outburst or whatever caused you to leave. Notice too, that nada

( our slang for a BP mom, nada= not a mother ) plays the hero and victim

at the same time. You ve punished me long enough, and I ve let this go

long enough. Implying that is was her choice. It wasnt.

It would NEVER ever occur to a BP that your lack of contact is not to

punish her, but to keep you safe and sane, and to not subject yourself

to further abuses. I hope that is your reason, because the revenge

motive, the hate motive, even if justified, eats at us, not at them.

You just want to heal and be healthy.

life is too short to be doing this. Life happens, it is what it is. I

can only deal with so much, you have a part in our relationship, so this

is not ok, any longer.

FOG alert! Fear Obligation Guilt, is how nada s manipulate us. You

have a part in this relationship: Guilt .

One of us could die tonight, then what??? Fear

[my name] life is too short for this crap. And i'm a pretty cool

fricken mom by the way, remember that, oh yea the good things, yes im

keeping it real. Obligation. If you are a pretty cool fricken parent,

by the way, you don t need to tell your kids that.

Manipulation , anyone.

I'm worried about you too, love you, mom. So there! "

Now who, but a BP, could pull off the statement, I love you, mom. So

there! If this was written by a 3 year old it would be cute, if bratty.

She did not say I love you out of love, it was out of FOG, I love you ,

so there. Now you have to respond to me.

>

> All i want to say back is " I'm sorry that your explosive anger tainted

so many wonderful experiences in my life, it's just sad that you can't

recognize why i can't continue a relationship with you. " But, i chose

to say nothing, and not engage to her pleas.

I understand why you think this, being a KO and having had a life of it.

But why do you think you Cannot say

I'm sorry that your explosive anger tainted so many wonderful

experiences in my life, it's just sad that you can't recognize why i

can't continue a relationship with you

Not that I expect that will make her say, oh, sorry, I didnt realize

that. I ll change. But you do NOT have to walk on eggshells with her.

It IS exhausting. You ve sent cards and presents, you ve received a

txt. So you have ways to say what is truly inside you without having a

conversation with her. Why not? If nothing else, you finally get to

say it. You ll feel better for being honest about your feelings.

> So exhausting, it's exhausting even when i have cut her out.... how

does she have that much control! Not sure what to do.

But you have NOT cut her out. You are in a very limited LC, or limited

contact. Otherwise, she could not text you, she wouldnt have your

number. NC means NC. And LC should mean you hold all the cards, you can

contact her, but she cannot contact you unless you choose it and permit

it. Right now , you are half in and half out. I m sure it is wearing

you to a nubbin.

> Break down this text for me, give me strength and affirmation that

what I'm doing is not the wrong way/ least therapeutic way to handle

this.

Ok, thats about as broken down as I can make it. I m sorry, deeply

sorry, that you don t have a nurturing mother, and that you have not

seen your little brother.

But your first priority must be, what must I do to be healthy. Build

from there.

May we all heal.

Doug

>

> Thank you!

>

[Guest guest]

Whew.

In case you were wondering, yes, your mother IS BPD. I ve re ordered

your post below, and will try to break it down and give you some

feedback throughout in various places.

>

> I have actually had no contact with my mom for about a year now, I cut

her out of my life. I have a lot of guilt, and i get a lot of guilt

from everyone on that side of the family. Especially because the crisis

surrounding the time I " abandoned her " was the birth of my baby brother.

Due to cutting her out of my life, I have also cut my baby brother

out... She sends me picture messages of him, but I have not seen him

since I walked away because of the unhappiness she bring me.

Families typically do not understand the behaviors that drive those

closest, the victims of the borderline behavior away. And of course you

are going to get guilt from dear old mom.

Not seeing or knowing your baby brother is a terrible price to pay. It

is one of the prices we often do pay for choosing what will let us be

healthy after a relationship with a BPD parent; we lose other family as

well.

Something does prompt me to ask, though, if your mom had a baby a year

ago, how old are you? If you are an adult and she is having a baby

after " raising " a child, that is a pretty wide gap in between.

> She wants contact, and wants to talk again, but has never owned up to

what she did... and i know she probably never will. I just can't let

someone so hurtful back into my life so easily without even a slight

acknowledgment that they did something wrong.

If she is a BPD, she will not acknowledge any wrong she did. She will

blame it all on you, while she plays the victim. And whatever she did

to hurt, and the myriad things she did to hurt you for the years of your

life, she will certainly do again. Her text makes it obvious she is not

ready to change. She will also choose to remember the incidents very

differently than you do, and challenge your reality.

> Oh yea, and to be clear, i was the one humble enough to send cards

for each holiday, gifts for christmas and birthdays.... with no

response from her except a bitter text " enjoy your life with your new

family. " The only ounce of contact she has done was sending picture

messages of my brother. We did talk on christmas day, i thought things

might turn around from there in a positive way, but of course not.

She is not going to just turn around due to a conversation. You need to

start some reading about BPD. Start with SWOE, then move to the

Complete Family Guide to bpd. You can find both on BPDCentral.com.

> Her latest text to me reads:

> " So i can't sleep, I've let this go long enough. U need to talk to

me, i can't believe this is going on a year, u don't talk to us, or see

us, it's just not ok. Talk to me about us, deal with it, i'm your mom,

i raised you, it's not ok hurting like this not seeing n talking to me,

really, a year, really [my name].

No mention of her hurting you, I notice. It s all about her: I m your

mom, I raised you. If she is truly willing to deal with it, then I

would suggest that you start seeing a therapist if you have not done so

already. And when you are comfortable and ready, and you are sure the

therapist understands that your mom has BPD, then offer to meet her at a

family therapy session with your T, and begin to deal with it there. I

doubt she ll accept, but it is a safe way to hold open the door for a

relationship, without caving in to her blackmail.

This is how you're gunna be??? Your little brothers going to have

surgery on his bday, and your not even talking to us, like who cares

about mom and your brother... i brought you up as a single mom all your

life, good times and bad times. i didn't give you up n disown u. I've

tryed contacting u this past year, all i get is a cold shoulder, it's

not ok.

Has she really? Your post says she has not responded to your cards and

such other than one txt. This would be a standard BPD behavior,

gaslighting. Her memory of something is entirely different than y ours,

or reality.

You couldn't even see your little brother, really [my name], you don't

care that much??? no feelings for me or him, really, a year. your

mother deserves more respect... your brother doesn't even know his big

sister, thats just wrong n hurtful, at least i've tried to contact you

this year.

Again, really? And if she is concerned about your brother knowing you,

she can make arrangements so that you can visit him without her present.

This is not ok. We are alive, we are your family, you've punished me

long enough, and i've let this go long enough.

Does anyone but me notice this? Not, sorry, daughter, that I hurt you,

or if I hurt you in some way. Please forgive me, and lets try to work

out a relationship. Instead, typical BPD. You have punished me long

enough. So it is YOUR fault for punishing her , not her fault for the

temper outburst or whatever caused you to leave. Notice too, that nada

( our slang for a BP mom, nada= not a mother ) plays the hero and victim

at the same time. You ve punished me long enough, and I ve let this go

long enough. Implying that is was her choice. It wasnt.

It would NEVER ever occur to a BP that your lack of contact is not to

punish her, but to keep you safe and sane, and to not subject yourself

to further abuses. I hope that is your reason, because the revenge

motive, the hate motive, even if justified, eats at us, not at them.

You just want to heal and be healthy.

life is too short to be doing this. Life happens, it is what it is. I

can only deal with so much, you have a part in our relationship, so this

is not ok, any longer.

FOG alert! Fear Obligation Guilt, is how nada s manipulate us. You

have a part in this relationship: Guilt .

One of us could die tonight, then what??? Fear

[my name] life is too short for this crap. And i'm a pretty cool

fricken mom by the way, remember that, oh yea the good things, yes im

keeping it real. Obligation. If you are a pretty cool fricken parent,

by the way, you don t need to tell your kids that.

Manipulation , anyone.

I'm worried about you too, love you, mom. So there! "

Now who, but a BP, could pull off the statement, I love you, mom. So

there! If this was written by a 3 year old it would be cute, if bratty.

She did not say I love you out of love, it was out of FOG, I love you ,

so there. Now you have to respond to me.

>

> All i want to say back is " I'm sorry that your explosive anger tainted

so many wonderful experiences in my life, it's just sad that you can't

recognize why i can't continue a relationship with you. " But, i chose

to say nothing, and not engage to her pleas.

I understand why you think this, being a KO and having had a life of it.

But why do you think you Cannot say

I'm sorry that your explosive anger tainted so many wonderful

experiences in my life, it's just sad that you can't recognize why i

can't continue a relationship with you

Not that I expect that will make her say, oh, sorry, I didnt realize

that. I ll change. But you do NOT have to walk on eggshells with her.

It IS exhausting. You ve sent cards and presents, you ve received a

txt. So you have ways to say what is truly inside you without having a

conversation with her. Why not? If nothing else, you finally get to

say it. You ll feel better for being honest about your feelings.

> So exhausting, it's exhausting even when i have cut her out.... how

does she have that much control! Not sure what to do.

But you have NOT cut her out. You are in a very limited LC, or limited

contact. Otherwise, she could not text you, she wouldnt have your

number. NC means NC. And LC should mean you hold all the cards, you can

contact her, but she cannot contact you unless you choose it and permit

it. Right now , you are half in and half out. I m sure it is wearing

you to a nubbin.

> Break down this text for me, give me strength and affirmation that

what I'm doing is not the wrong way/ least therapeutic way to handle

this.

Ok, thats about as broken down as I can make it. I m sorry, deeply

sorry, that you don t have a nurturing mother, and that you have not

seen your little brother.

But your first priority must be, what must I do to be healthy. Build

from there.

May we all heal.

Doug

>

> Thank you!

>

[Guest guest]

Whew.

In case you were wondering, yes, your mother IS BPD. I ve re ordered

your post below, and will try to break it down and give you some

feedback throughout in various places.

>

> I have actually had no contact with my mom for about a year now, I cut

her out of my life. I have a lot of guilt, and i get a lot of guilt

from everyone on that side of the family. Especially because the crisis

surrounding the time I " abandoned her " was the birth of my baby brother.

Due to cutting her out of my life, I have also cut my baby brother

out... She sends me picture messages of him, but I have not seen him

since I walked away because of the unhappiness she bring me.

Families typically do not understand the behaviors that drive those

closest, the victims of the borderline behavior away. And of course you

are going to get guilt from dear old mom.

Not seeing or knowing your baby brother is a terrible price to pay. It

is one of the prices we often do pay for choosing what will let us be

healthy after a relationship with a BPD parent; we lose other family as

well.

Something does prompt me to ask, though, if your mom had a baby a year

ago, how old are you? If you are an adult and she is having a baby

after " raising " a child, that is a pretty wide gap in between.

> She wants contact, and wants to talk again, but has never owned up to

what she did... and i know she probably never will. I just can't let

someone so hurtful back into my life so easily without even a slight

acknowledgment that they did something wrong.

If she is a BPD, she will not acknowledge any wrong she did. She will

blame it all on you, while she plays the victim. And whatever she did

to hurt, and the myriad things she did to hurt you for the years of your

life, she will certainly do again. Her text makes it obvious she is not

ready to change. She will also choose to remember the incidents very

differently than you do, and challenge your reality.

> Oh yea, and to be clear, i was the one humble enough to send cards

for each holiday, gifts for christmas and birthdays.... with no

response from her except a bitter text " enjoy your life with your new

family. " The only ounce of contact she has done was sending picture

messages of my brother. We did talk on christmas day, i thought things

might turn around from there in a positive way, but of course not.

She is not going to just turn around due to a conversation. You need to

start some reading about BPD. Start with SWOE, then move to the

Complete Family Guide to bpd. You can find both on BPDCentral.com.

> Her latest text to me reads:

> " So i can't sleep, I've let this go long enough. U need to talk to

me, i can't believe this is going on a year, u don't talk to us, or see

us, it's just not ok. Talk to me about us, deal with it, i'm your mom,

i raised you, it's not ok hurting like this not seeing n talking to me,

really, a year, really [my name].

No mention of her hurting you, I notice. It s all about her: I m your

mom, I raised you. If she is truly willing to deal with it, then I

would suggest that you start seeing a therapist if you have not done so

already. And when you are comfortable and ready, and you are sure the

therapist understands that your mom has BPD, then offer to meet her at a

family therapy session with your T, and begin to deal with it there. I

doubt she ll accept, but it is a safe way to hold open the door for a

relationship, without caving in to her blackmail.

This is how you're gunna be??? Your little brothers going to have

surgery on his bday, and your not even talking to us, like who cares

about mom and your brother... i brought you up as a single mom all your

life, good times and bad times. i didn't give you up n disown u. I've

tryed contacting u this past year, all i get is a cold shoulder, it's

not ok.

Has she really? Your post says she has not responded to your cards and

such other than one txt. This would be a standard BPD behavior,

gaslighting. Her memory of something is entirely different than y ours,

or reality.

You couldn't even see your little brother, really [my name], you don't

care that much??? no feelings for me or him, really, a year. your

mother deserves more respect... your brother doesn't even know his big

sister, thats just wrong n hurtful, at least i've tried to contact you

this year.

Again, really? And if she is concerned about your brother knowing you,

she can make arrangements so that you can visit him without her present.

This is not ok. We are alive, we are your family, you've punished me

long enough, and i've let this go long enough.

Does anyone but me notice this? Not, sorry, daughter, that I hurt you,

or if I hurt you in some way. Please forgive me, and lets try to work

out a relationship. Instead, typical BPD. You have punished me long

enough. So it is YOUR fault for punishing her , not her fault for the

temper outburst or whatever caused you to leave. Notice too, that nada

( our slang for a BP mom, nada= not a mother ) plays the hero and victim

at the same time. You ve punished me long enough, and I ve let this go

long enough. Implying that is was her choice. It wasnt.

It would NEVER ever occur to a BP that your lack of contact is not to

punish her, but to keep you safe and sane, and to not subject yourself

to further abuses. I hope that is your reason, because the revenge

motive, the hate motive, even if justified, eats at us, not at them.

You just want to heal and be healthy.

life is too short to be doing this. Life happens, it is what it is. I

can only deal with so much, you have a part in our relationship, so this

is not ok, any longer.

FOG alert! Fear Obligation Guilt, is how nada s manipulate us. You

have a part in this relationship: Guilt .

One of us could die tonight, then what??? Fear

[my name] life is too short for this crap. And i'm a pretty cool

fricken mom by the way, remember that, oh yea the good things, yes im

keeping it real. Obligation. If you are a pretty cool fricken parent,

by the way, you don t need to tell your kids that.

Manipulation , anyone.

I'm worried about you too, love you, mom. So there! "

Now who, but a BP, could pull off the statement, I love you, mom. So

there! If this was written by a 3 year old it would be cute, if bratty.

She did not say I love you out of love, it was out of FOG, I love you ,

so there. Now you have to respond to me.

>

> All i want to say back is " I'm sorry that your explosive anger tainted

so many wonderful experiences in my life, it's just sad that you can't

recognize why i can't continue a relationship with you. " But, i chose

to say nothing, and not engage to her pleas.

I understand why you think this, being a KO and having had a life of it.

But why do you think you Cannot say

I'm sorry that your explosive anger tainted so many wonderful

experiences in my life, it's just sad that you can't recognize why i

can't continue a relationship with you

Not that I expect that will make her say, oh, sorry, I didnt realize

that. I ll change. But you do NOT have to walk on eggshells with her.

It IS exhausting. You ve sent cards and presents, you ve received a

txt. So you have ways to say what is truly inside you without having a

conversation with her. Why not? If nothing else, you finally get to

say it. You ll feel better for being honest about your feelings.

> So exhausting, it's exhausting even when i have cut her out.... how

does she have that much control! Not sure what to do.

But you have NOT cut her out. You are in a very limited LC, or limited

contact. Otherwise, she could not text you, she wouldnt have your

number. NC means NC. And LC should mean you hold all the cards, you can

contact her, but she cannot contact you unless you choose it and permit

it. Right now , you are half in and half out. I m sure it is wearing

you to a nubbin.

> Break down this text for me, give me strength and affirmation that

what I'm doing is not the wrong way/ least therapeutic way to handle

this.

Ok, thats about as broken down as I can make it. I m sorry, deeply

sorry, that you don t have a nurturing mother, and that you have not

seen your little brother.

But your first priority must be, what must I do to be healthy. Build

from there.

May we all heal.

Doug

>

> Thank you!

>

[Guest guest]

Doug, that was so good. I needed every ounce of that. Thank you, you offer

great advice and I plan to try some of your suggestions.

I have been slowly reading SWOE as much as my emotions will let me.

I am young, about to be 24. My mom is going on 43, and my brother will be

turning 1 in just days. So yes, very extreme age gap.

It's an interesting concept, but I can't help to think that she conveniently had

a baby only a few years after I left the home to prevent loneliness.

I will continue LC, only because I want to be available to eventually have

contact with my brother, WITHOUT NADA! My boundaries are set, and I will never

put myself in a situation that I am alone with her.

I love myself and DH too much to be an emotional wreck, I choose to surround

myself with people who care and love me, I just need to grieve the loss of a

mother that I wish I could have had.

-JL

> >

> > I have actually had no contact with my mom for about a year now, I cut

> her out of my life. I have a lot of guilt, and i get a lot of guilt

> from everyone on that side of the family. Especially because the crisis

> surrounding the time I " abandoned her " was the birth of my baby brother.

> Due to cutting her out of my life, I have also cut my baby brother

> out... She sends me picture messages of him, but I have not seen him

> since I walked away because of the unhappiness she bring me.

>

> Families typically do not understand the behaviors that drive those

> closest, the victims of the borderline behavior away. And of course you

> are going to get guilt from dear old mom.

>

> Not seeing or knowing your baby brother is a terrible price to pay. It

> is one of the prices we often do pay for choosing what will let us be

> healthy after a relationship with a BPD parent; we lose other family as

> well.

>

> Something does prompt me to ask, though, if your mom had a baby a year

> ago, how old are you? If you are an adult and she is having a baby

> after " raising " a child, that is a pretty wide gap in between.

>

>

> > She wants contact, and wants to talk again, but has never owned up to

> what she did... and i know she probably never will. I just can't let

> someone so hurtful back into my life so easily without even a slight

> acknowledgment that they did something wrong.

>

> If she is a BPD, she will not acknowledge any wrong she did. She will

> blame it all on you, while she plays the victim. And whatever she did

> to hurt, and the myriad things she did to hurt you for the years of your

> life, she will certainly do again. Her text makes it obvious she is not

> ready to change. She will also choose to remember the incidents very

> differently than you do, and challenge your reality.

>

>

>

> > Oh yea, and to be clear, i was the one humble enough to send cards

> for each holiday, gifts for christmas and birthdays.... with no

> response from her except a bitter text " enjoy your life with your new

> family. " The only ounce of contact she has done was sending picture

> messages of my brother. We did talk on christmas day, i thought things

> might turn around from there in a positive way, but of course not.

>

> She is not going to just turn around due to a conversation. You need to

> start some reading about BPD. Start with SWOE, then move to the

> Complete Family Guide to bpd. You can find both on BPDCentral.com.

>

>

>

> > Her latest text to me reads:

> > " So i can't sleep, I've let this go long enough. U need to talk to

> me, i can't believe this is going on a year, u don't talk to us, or see

> us, it's just not ok. Talk to me about us, deal with it, i'm your mom,

> i raised you, it's not ok hurting like this not seeing n talking to me,

> really, a year, really [my name].

>

> No mention of her hurting you, I notice. It s all about her: I m your

> mom, I raised you. If she is truly willing to deal with it, then I

> would suggest that you start seeing a therapist if you have not done so

> already. And when you are comfortable and ready, and you are sure the

> therapist understands that your mom has BPD, then offer to meet her at a

> family therapy session with your T, and begin to deal with it there. I

> doubt she ll accept, but it is a safe way to hold open the door for a

> relationship, without caving in to her blackmail.

>

>

>

> This is how you're gunna be??? Your little brothers going to have

> surgery on his bday, and your not even talking to us, like who cares

> about mom and your brother... i brought you up as a single mom all your

> life, good times and bad times. i didn't give you up n disown u. I've

> tryed contacting u this past year, all i get is a cold shoulder, it's

> not ok.

>

>

> Has she really? Your post says she has not responded to your cards and

> such other than one txt. This would be a standard BPD behavior,

> gaslighting. Her memory of something is entirely different than y ours,

> or reality.

>

>

>

>

> You couldn't even see your little brother, really [my name], you don't

> care that much??? no feelings for me or him, really, a year. your

> mother deserves more respect... your brother doesn't even know his big

> sister, thats just wrong n hurtful, at least i've tried to contact you

> this year.

>

> Again, really? And if she is concerned about your brother knowing you,

> she can make arrangements so that you can visit him without her present.

>

> This is not ok. We are alive, we are your family, you've punished me

> long enough, and i've let this go long enough.

>

> Does anyone but me notice this? Not, sorry, daughter, that I hurt you,

> or if I hurt you in some way. Please forgive me, and lets try to work

> out a relationship. Instead, typical BPD. You have punished me long

> enough. So it is YOUR fault for punishing her , not her fault for the

> temper outburst or whatever caused you to leave. Notice too, that nada

> ( our slang for a BP mom, nada= not a mother ) plays the hero and victim

> at the same time. You ve punished me long enough, and I ve let this go

> long enough. Implying that is was her choice. It wasnt.

>

> It would NEVER ever occur to a BP that your lack of contact is not to

> punish her, but to keep you safe and sane, and to not subject yourself

> to further abuses. I hope that is your reason, because the revenge

> motive, the hate motive, even if justified, eats at us, not at them.

> You just want to heal and be healthy.

>

> life is too short to be doing this. Life happens, it is what it is. I

> can only deal with so much, you have a part in our relationship, so this

> is not ok, any longer.

>

> FOG alert! Fear Obligation Guilt, is how nada s manipulate us. You

> have a part in this relationship: Guilt .

>

>

> One of us could die tonight, then what??? Fear

>

>

>

> [my name] life is too short for this crap. And i'm a pretty cool

> fricken mom by the way, remember that, oh yea the good things, yes im

> keeping it real. Obligation. If you are a pretty cool fricken parent,

> by the way, you don t need to tell your kids that.

>

> Manipulation , anyone.

>

>

> I'm worried about you too, love you, mom. So there! "

>

> Now who, but a BP, could pull off the statement, I love you, mom. So

> there! If this was written by a 3 year old it would be cute, if bratty.

> She did not say I love you out of love, it was out of FOG, I love you ,

> so there. Now you have to respond to me.

>

>

> >

> > All i want to say back is " I'm sorry that your explosive anger tainted

> so many wonderful experiences in my life, it's just sad that you can't

> recognize why i can't continue a relationship with you. " But, i chose

> to say nothing, and not engage to her pleas.

>

> I understand why you think this, being a KO and having had a life of it.

> But why do you think you Cannot say

>

> I'm sorry that your explosive anger tainted so many wonderful

> experiences in my life, it's just sad that you can't recognize why i

> can't continue a relationship with you

>

> Not that I expect that will make her say, oh, sorry, I didnt realize

> that. I ll change. But you do NOT have to walk on eggshells with her.

> It IS exhausting. You ve sent cards and presents, you ve received a

> txt. So you have ways to say what is truly inside you without having a

> conversation with her. Why not? If nothing else, you finally get to

> say it. You ll feel better for being honest about your feelings.

>

> > So exhausting, it's exhausting even when i have cut her out.... how

> does she have that much control! Not sure what to do.

>

> But you have NOT cut her out. You are in a very limited LC, or limited

> contact. Otherwise, she could not text you, she wouldnt have your

> number. NC means NC. And LC should mean you hold all the cards, you can

> contact her, but she cannot contact you unless you choose it and permit

> it. Right now , you are half in and half out. I m sure it is wearing

> you to a nubbin.

>

>

>

> > Break down this text for me, give me strength and affirmation that

> what I'm doing is not the wrong way/ least therapeutic way to handle

> this.

>

> Ok, thats about as broken down as I can make it. I m sorry, deeply

> sorry, that you don t have a nurturing mother, and that you have not

> seen your little brother.

>

> But your first priority must be, what must I do to be healthy. Build

> from there.

>

> May we all heal.

>

> Doug

>

>

> >

> > Thank you!

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Doug, that was so good. I needed every ounce of that. Thank you, you offer

great advice and I plan to try some of your suggestions.

I have been slowly reading SWOE as much as my emotions will let me.

I am young, about to be 24. My mom is going on 43, and my brother will be

turning 1 in just days. So yes, very extreme age gap.

It's an interesting concept, but I can't help to think that she conveniently had

a baby only a few years after I left the home to prevent loneliness.

I will continue LC, only because I want to be available to eventually have

contact with my brother, WITHOUT NADA! My boundaries are set, and I will never

put myself in a situation that I am alone with her.

I love myself and DH too much to be an emotional wreck, I choose to surround

myself with people who care and love me, I just need to grieve the loss of a

mother that I wish I could have had.

-JL

> >

> > I have actually had no contact with my mom for about a year now, I cut

> her out of my life. I have a lot of guilt, and i get a lot of guilt

> from everyone on that side of the family. Especially because the crisis

> surrounding the time I " abandoned her " was the birth of my baby brother.

> Due to cutting her out of my life, I have also cut my baby brother

> out... She sends me picture messages of him, but I have not seen him

> since I walked away because of the unhappiness she bring me.

>

> Families typically do not understand the behaviors that drive those

> closest, the victims of the borderline behavior away. And of course you

> are going to get guilt from dear old mom.

>

> Not seeing or knowing your baby brother is a terrible price to pay. It

> is one of the prices we often do pay for choosing what will let us be

> healthy after a relationship with a BPD parent; we lose other family as

> well.

>

> Something does prompt me to ask, though, if your mom had a baby a year

> ago, how old are you? If you are an adult and she is having a baby

> after " raising " a child, that is a pretty wide gap in between.

>

>

> > She wants contact, and wants to talk again, but has never owned up to

> what she did... and i know she probably never will. I just can't let

> someone so hurtful back into my life so easily without even a slight

> acknowledgment that they did something wrong.

>

> If she is a BPD, she will not acknowledge any wrong she did. She will

> blame it all on you, while she plays the victim. And whatever she did

> to hurt, and the myriad things she did to hurt you for the years of your

> life, she will certainly do again. Her text makes it obvious she is not

> ready to change. She will also choose to remember the incidents very

> differently than you do, and challenge your reality.

>

>

>

> > Oh yea, and to be clear, i was the one humble enough to send cards

> for each holiday, gifts for christmas and birthdays.... with no

> response from her except a bitter text " enjoy your life with your new

> family. " The only ounce of contact she has done was sending picture

> messages of my brother. We did talk on christmas day, i thought things

> might turn around from there in a positive way, but of course not.

>

> She is not going to just turn around due to a conversation. You need to

> start some reading about BPD. Start with SWOE, then move to the

> Complete Family Guide to bpd. You can find both on BPDCentral.com.

>

>

>

> > Her latest text to me reads:

> > " So i can't sleep, I've let this go long enough. U need to talk to

> me, i can't believe this is going on a year, u don't talk to us, or see

> us, it's just not ok. Talk to me about us, deal with it, i'm your mom,

> i raised you, it's not ok hurting like this not seeing n talking to me,

> really, a year, really [my name].

>

> No mention of her hurting you, I notice. It s all about her: I m your

> mom, I raised you. If she is truly willing to deal with it, then I

> would suggest that you start seeing a therapist if you have not done so

> already. And when you are comfortable and ready, and you are sure the

> therapist understands that your mom has BPD, then offer to meet her at a

> family therapy session with your T, and begin to deal with it there. I

> doubt she ll accept, but it is a safe way to hold open the door for a

> relationship, without caving in to her blackmail.

>

>

>

> This is how you're gunna be??? Your little brothers going to have

> surgery on his bday, and your not even talking to us, like who cares

> about mom and your brother... i brought you up as a single mom all your

> life, good times and bad times. i didn't give you up n disown u. I've

> tryed contacting u this past year, all i get is a cold shoulder, it's

> not ok.

>

>

> Has she really? Your post says she has not responded to your cards and

> such other than one txt. This would be a standard BPD behavior,

> gaslighting. Her memory of something is entirely different than y ours,

> or reality.

>

>

>

>

> You couldn't even see your little brother, really [my name], you don't

> care that much??? no feelings for me or him, really, a year. your

> mother deserves more respect... your brother doesn't even know his big

> sister, thats just wrong n hurtful, at least i've tried to contact you

> this year.

>

> Again, really? And if she is concerned about your brother knowing you,

> she can make arrangements so that you can visit him without her present.

>

> This is not ok. We are alive, we are your family, you've punished me

> long enough, and i've let this go long enough.

>

> Does anyone but me notice this? Not, sorry, daughter, that I hurt you,

> or if I hurt you in some way. Please forgive me, and lets try to work

> out a relationship. Instead, typical BPD. You have punished me long

> enough. So it is YOUR fault for punishing her , not her fault for the

> temper outburst or whatever caused you to leave. Notice too, that nada

> ( our slang for a BP mom, nada= not a mother ) plays the hero and victim

> at the same time. You ve punished me long enough, and I ve let this go

> long enough. Implying that is was her choice. It wasnt.

>

> It would NEVER ever occur to a BP that your lack of contact is not to

> punish her, but to keep you safe and sane, and to not subject yourself

> to further abuses. I hope that is your reason, because the revenge

> motive, the hate motive, even if justified, eats at us, not at them.

> You just want to heal and be healthy.

>

> life is too short to be doing this. Life happens, it is what it is. I

> can only deal with so much, you have a part in our relationship, so this

> is not ok, any longer.

>

> FOG alert! Fear Obligation Guilt, is how nada s manipulate us. You

> have a part in this relationship: Guilt .

>

>

> One of us could die tonight, then what??? Fear

>

>

>

> [my name] life is too short for this crap. And i'm a pretty cool

> fricken mom by the way, remember that, oh yea the good things, yes im

> keeping it real. Obligation. If you are a pretty cool fricken parent,

> by the way, you don t need to tell your kids that.

>

> Manipulation , anyone.

>

>

> I'm worried about you too, love you, mom. So there! "

>

> Now who, but a BP, could pull off the statement, I love you, mom. So

> there! If this was written by a 3 year old it would be cute, if bratty.

> She did not say I love you out of love, it was out of FOG, I love you ,

> so there. Now you have to respond to me.

>

>

> >

> > All i want to say back is " I'm sorry that your explosive anger tainted

> so many wonderful experiences in my life, it's just sad that you can't

> recognize why i can't continue a relationship with you. " But, i chose

> to say nothing, and not engage to her pleas.

>

> I understand why you think this, being a KO and having had a life of it.

> But why do you think you Cannot say

>

> I'm sorry that your explosive anger tainted so many wonderful

> experiences in my life, it's just sad that you can't recognize why i

> can't continue a relationship with you

>

> Not that I expect that will make her say, oh, sorry, I didnt realize

> that. I ll change. But you do NOT have to walk on eggshells with her.

> It IS exhausting. You ve sent cards and presents, you ve received a

> txt. So you have ways to say what is truly inside you without having a

> conversation with her. Why not? If nothing else, you finally get to

> say it. You ll feel better for being honest about your feelings.

>

> > So exhausting, it's exhausting even when i have cut her out.... how

> does she have that much control! Not sure what to do.

>

> But you have NOT cut her out. You are in a very limited LC, or limited

> contact. Otherwise, she could not text you, she wouldnt have your

> number. NC means NC. And LC should mean you hold all the cards, you can

> contact her, but she cannot contact you unless you choose it and permit

> it. Right now , you are half in and half out. I m sure it is wearing

> you to a nubbin.

>

>

>

> > Break down this text for me, give me strength and affirmation that

> what I'm doing is not the wrong way/ least therapeutic way to handle

> this.

>

> Ok, thats about as broken down as I can make it. I m sorry, deeply

> sorry, that you don t have a nurturing mother, and that you have not

> seen your little brother.

>

> But your first priority must be, what must I do to be healthy. Build

> from there.

>

> May we all heal.

>

> Doug

>

>

> >

> > Thank you!

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

That was a great breakdown Doug. I agree with the comments that Doug has

inserted regarding the text. Nada's are brilliant at manipulating us into a FOG

and being the compassionate people we are, it is easy to be led into this

manipulation and feel guilt and feel like we 'owe' our Nada something. Families

often don't help with this as they don't understand and put even more pressure

on us. My family is doing it to me something serious at the moment and don't

understand why I am resisting, but yes, it is exhausting!

We are incredible people if everything that happens in our relationships is

somehow our fault, is it not?! Of course not, your line about your Nada just

taking responsibility for her own behaviour, that is how I feel about my Nada

and why I choose to not respond to her communication at this time. Deep down I

know I will probably never get anything from her that is even close to a sorry

or taking responsibility for her behaviour, but I still desparately hope for it.

My biggest struggle at the moment is trying to let that go. Whilst I am still

hoping for it, I am also making it easier for her to drag me back into the FOG.

There are some very good psychologists that can help and I have sought their

help. When you get bogged down into your emotions, it can be great to have

someone external, but trustworthy you can just spill it all to who can feed it

back to you, so you can work out what is going on and take a step back from all

the emotion that can just blind you sometimes. They can help you clarify what

you want and what boundaries you want.

I think that is the biggest challenge in dealing with our Nada's, we need to be

clear in what we want and what we are willing to give (i.e. our boundaries)

before we can effectively deal with them. It is a practice over time, coz we

have emotions and we care and can't just shut those off. Over Christmas, all but

1 of my 4 sisters avoided me because I am not responding to my Nada - and they

blame me - they have told me so. It is hard and it hurts like hell. But I have

learnt, until you look after yourself and are healthy within yourself, you can't

have a meaningful relationship with someone else as you get to caught up in the

emotional turmoil. Your Nada may make it sound selfish, but you need to look

after you first, coz otherwise who will? Then you decide how much you can give

others and what you are willing to give. Your Nada will try and distort

situations, but you know you have kept contact with your brother in a way that

is safe for you.

Stay strong, it is hard, but you can do it! You are not alone and there are

people who understand what you are going through.

[Guest guest]

That was a great breakdown Doug. I agree with the comments that Doug has

inserted regarding the text. Nada's are brilliant at manipulating us into a FOG

and being the compassionate people we are, it is easy to be led into this

manipulation and feel guilt and feel like we 'owe' our Nada something. Families

often don't help with this as they don't understand and put even more pressure

on us. My family is doing it to me something serious at the moment and don't

understand why I am resisting, but yes, it is exhausting!

We are incredible people if everything that happens in our relationships is

somehow our fault, is it not?! Of course not, your line about your Nada just

taking responsibility for her own behaviour, that is how I feel about my Nada

and why I choose to not respond to her communication at this time. Deep down I

know I will probably never get anything from her that is even close to a sorry

or taking responsibility for her behaviour, but I still desparately hope for it.

My biggest struggle at the moment is trying to let that go. Whilst I am still

hoping for it, I am also making it easier for her to drag me back into the FOG.

There are some very good psychologists that can help and I have sought their

help. When you get bogged down into your emotions, it can be great to have

someone external, but trustworthy you can just spill it all to who can feed it

back to you, so you can work out what is going on and take a step back from all

the emotion that can just blind you sometimes. They can help you clarify what

you want and what boundaries you want.

I think that is the biggest challenge in dealing with our Nada's, we need to be

clear in what we want and what we are willing to give (i.e. our boundaries)

before we can effectively deal with them. It is a practice over time, coz we

have emotions and we care and can't just shut those off. Over Christmas, all but

1 of my 4 sisters avoided me because I am not responding to my Nada - and they

blame me - they have told me so. It is hard and it hurts like hell. But I have

learnt, until you look after yourself and are healthy within yourself, you can't

have a meaningful relationship with someone else as you get to caught up in the

emotional turmoil. Your Nada may make it sound selfish, but you need to look

after you first, coz otherwise who will? Then you decide how much you can give

others and what you are willing to give. Your Nada will try and distort

situations, but you know you have kept contact with your brother in a way that

is safe for you.

Stay strong, it is hard, but you can do it! You are not alone and there are

people who understand what you are going through.

[Guest guest]

I'd just like to start by saying it sounds like you are handling this situation

really well! You know what you need, you recognize her message as manipulative,

and you choose not to reward that behavior with a response. Two thumbs way up!

afldancer wrote:

>Is she aware of this boundary (I'm guessing you've said it to her before)?

You could (but don't have to) reiterate to her the boundaries that >you have set

and state that if she is not willing to maintain contact within those

>boundaries, then you will not see her.

I agree that you don't have to tell her what the boundary is. To a pwBPD, even

negative attention is attention. I think communicating with her at this point,

even just to tell her why you don't want contact, might teach her that you will

eventually give in if she just keeps pestering you enough. It's called

" intermittent reinforcement. " I think your limits are for you, and since you

know what your limit is, you can just continue NC until she makes the changes

you need.

Her message to you was full of shaming and scolding, blame and FOG (fear,

obligation, guilt.) It reminds me how my mother used my name like it was a bad

word. Other posters are right that in her mind, this really is all about you

being mean to her; to a pwBPD, feelings=facts! You know the truth, whether she

ever figures it out or not.

Here is the statement that most stood out to me in your BPDm's message:

>Your little brothers going to have surgery on his bday, and your not even

talking to us...

Wow. Guilt trip, much? Just like a pwBPD to ruin what should be a happy event

by hijacking it with their own drama. I guarantee that surgery could have been

scheduled for another day, but it gets her a lot more attention and pity by

putting it on his birthday. How sad for your little brother that he's only a

year old and she's already usurped his life. How would that be different if you

were talking to them? BPD " logic " really doesn't make sense. None of what's

going on with your brother is your fault, and you don't have the power to change

it. I think you're wise to recognize that and keep your distance for now.

Then, she said this:

And i'm a pretty cool fricken mom by the way, remember that, oh yea the good

things, yes im keeping it real. I'm worried about you too, love you, mom. So

there! "

>

LMAO! Right...because " pretty cool fricken mom " s abuse and manipulate their

children until they stop talking to them for a year, and then send them angry

guilt trip messages that end in a childish " So there! " ???? Way to go, Mom of

the Year!

I think she's trying hard to convince herself this is all your fault and not

hers (projecting). At least after all that, she's given you an opportunity to

laugh about it a little.

You're doing a good job.

KT

[Guest guest]

The " so there " part reminded me of my nada and how she used to say " I love

you " like it was obligatory. I wish I could describe it here for you, the

tone of voice she would use when she said it. It's like " really? You love

me? Are you sure? "

I also agree it sounds like you are handling the situation well. Good for

you! I am sorry to hear about your brother though, and yes... surgery on

his birthday does sound very BPD like.

Mia

[Guest guest]

The " so there " part reminded me of my nada and how she used to say " I love

you " like it was obligatory. I wish I could describe it here for you, the

tone of voice she would use when she said it. It's like " really? You love

me? Are you sure? "

I also agree it sounds like you are handling the situation well. Good for

you! I am sorry to hear about your brother though, and yes... surgery on

his birthday does sound very BPD like.

Mia

[Guest guest]

I haven't read every response but I wanted to chime in and say she played

EVERY SINGLE CARD IN THE POOR ME DECK! " Respect your mother, " Your baby bro

needs you, your baby bro is sick, etc ect ect. They are just cards in a card

game and control of your life is the prize.

I'd change my number and try to get a therapy appt to get some help with the

guilt. Stay strong. XOXO Girlscout

>

>

> The " so there " part reminded me of my nada and how she used to say " I love

> you " like it was obligatory. I wish I could describe it here for you, the

> tone of voice she would use when she said it. It's like " really? You love

> me? Are you sure? "

>

> I also agree it sounds like you are handling the situation well. Good for

> you! I am sorry to hear about your brother though, and yes... surgery on

> his birthday does sound very BPD like.

>

> Mia

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I haven't read every response but I wanted to chime in and say she played

EVERY SINGLE CARD IN THE POOR ME DECK! " Respect your mother, " Your baby bro

needs you, your baby bro is sick, etc ect ect. They are just cards in a card

game and control of your life is the prize.

I'd change my number and try to get a therapy appt to get some help with the

guilt. Stay strong. XOXO Girlscout

>

>

> The " so there " part reminded me of my nada and how she used to say " I love

> you " like it was obligatory. I wish I could describe it here for you, the

> tone of voice she would use when she said it. It's like " really? You love

> me? Are you sure? "

>

> I also agree it sounds like you are handling the situation well. Good for

> you! I am sorry to hear about your brother though, and yes... surgery on

> his birthday does sound very BPD like.

>

> Mia

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Grewels, may you have all the strenght you need. My goodness. Your nada sure

knows how to play the guilt trip. My nada used to tell me about the excrutiating

pain she had when she was giving birth to me and those conversations happened

only when she felt I was drifting away or emotionally detached. My response was,

well when you get pregnant you eventually need to give birth I guess !!

Anyhow if it was me I wouldn't react in anyway to her message, this will show

her no matter how manipulative she is you wont give in. That's just my opinion.

You take care,