Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 The testimonials come only from those he's > accepted for ablation, we don't hear from those he's rejected. Kathleen Well, actually, a bunch of people in the group have gone to Natale for consults about ablations. I haven't heard one post that he's turned them down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 It may be important to clarify what the definition of success is. Being unable to induce AF at the end of a procedure might be termed a success. Being in permanent NSR and med free 12,24 or more months down the road are perhaps the more useful figures to see. -- D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 It may be important to clarify what the definition of success is. Being unable to induce AF at the end of a procedure might be termed a success. Being in permanent NSR and med free 12,24 or more months down the road are perhaps the more useful figures to see. -- D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 It may be important to clarify what the definition of success is. Being unable to induce AF at the end of a procedure might be termed a success. Being in permanent NSR and med free 12,24 or more months down the road are perhaps the more useful figures to see. -- D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 > Thanks, , I understand and that's good info. The test of good science, > though, and good medicine, is ultimately when it's published in peer-reviewed > literature, and I'm just hoping he's done that. The best surgeons do. There are > highly specialized medical journals for just such communications among > experts. (Cleveland just got a number one rating for Cardiology nationwide in > USNews and World Report, so I know they're good, as is Natale - I'm just > nosey, I'd like to see the data in its full form - if it's available). Kathleen ***** Kathleen, Dr. Natale publishes a lot, and I have read many of his articles.Dr. Natale is not a surgeon, he is an electrophysiologist. You would not go to him for open heart surgery. I have no idea if such a paper exists where he states I (we) have done blah blah in a patient population of blah and are results are 80% cure after the first, 95% cure after the second, but let me know if you find one. That's a good question for the next person who goes for a consult to ask. I have also been for a consult with Marchlinski at Penn, whose bibliography runs on into infinity, but I haven't seen a journal article by him either which backs up his similar cure rate. Anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 > Thanks, , I understand and that's good info. The test of good science, > though, and good medicine, is ultimately when it's published in peer-reviewed > literature, and I'm just hoping he's done that. The best surgeons do. There are > highly specialized medical journals for just such communications among > experts. (Cleveland just got a number one rating for Cardiology nationwide in > USNews and World Report, so I know they're good, as is Natale - I'm just > nosey, I'd like to see the data in its full form - if it's available). Kathleen ***** Kathleen, Dr. Natale publishes a lot, and I have read many of his articles.Dr. Natale is not a surgeon, he is an electrophysiologist. You would not go to him for open heart surgery. I have no idea if such a paper exists where he states I (we) have done blah blah in a patient population of blah and are results are 80% cure after the first, 95% cure after the second, but let me know if you find one. That's a good question for the next person who goes for a consult to ask. I have also been for a consult with Marchlinski at Penn, whose bibliography runs on into infinity, but I haven't seen a journal article by him either which backs up his similar cure rate. Anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 > Thanks, , I understand and that's good info. The test of good science, > though, and good medicine, is ultimately when it's published in peer-reviewed > literature, and I'm just hoping he's done that. The best surgeons do. There are > highly specialized medical journals for just such communications among > experts. (Cleveland just got a number one rating for Cardiology nationwide in > USNews and World Report, so I know they're good, as is Natale - I'm just > nosey, I'd like to see the data in its full form - if it's available). Kathleen ***** Kathleen, Dr. Natale publishes a lot, and I have read many of his articles.Dr. Natale is not a surgeon, he is an electrophysiologist. You would not go to him for open heart surgery. I have no idea if such a paper exists where he states I (we) have done blah blah in a patient population of blah and are results are 80% cure after the first, 95% cure after the second, but let me know if you find one. That's a good question for the next person who goes for a consult to ask. I have also been for a consult with Marchlinski at Penn, whose bibliography runs on into infinity, but I haven't seen a journal article by him either which backs up his similar cure rate. Anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 I have a friend who's " in process " > post ablation with Natale, and his experiences have been mixed thusfar, > including having talked with Dr. Natale in person almost not at all at any stage, > and not yet in nsr two months post-ablation though everyone remains > optimistic. I'm not rushing to ablation, no need, but I'm keeping my eyes and > ears open and appreciate the good words about your own experiences. >Kathleen **** Kathleen, I understand your skepticism. We see an awful lot of tributes to Dr. Natale on the Internet. I wish you would encourage your friend to write in about his/her experience, as it might lend some balance. When I first called Dr. Natale's office, I was told I could come in for a consult, or I could just fax my records to get an appointment for an ablation. I elected to fly out to Cleveland for a consult with him first. The only test I had while there was an echocardiogram mainly to check the size of my left atrium. I certainly did not get the feeling that I was being sized up as a candidate who would increase or decrease his success stats. And I was accepted. Even with a mildly enlarged left atrium. The people who don't request a consult first probably do not see much of Dr. Natale, until their three-month check-up appointment. I could be wrong about this and if so, someone will correct me. I asked him if he would be in to see me after the ablation, and he said I will be out to see your family and tell them that you are okay, and I might also check in with you, but you probably won't remember me doing so, because of the drugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 > Thor, thanks. I'm sure the hospital records are meticulous, no question about > Cleveland's high standing. But I know from a friend's experience that Natale > puts all his prospective patients through a very thorough screening and many > tests, and good as he is I'm still suspicious that he's got such a high rate > because he doesn't take on high-risk cases. When (and if....) the best of > surgeons publish their work in the peer-reviewed journals, they give details of > the patient population, their techniques, and the results. What's missing in the > " stories " about Natale is a full description of his patient population, including > those he rejects for ablation. The testimonials come only from those he's > accepted for ablation, we don't hear from those he's rejected. Kathleen ****** Kathleen, Could you tell us a little more about the thorough screening you friend was subjected to, and what tests your friend had to undergo? The best of surgeons and electrophysiologists and all other physicians do publish their work in peer-reviewed journals. Again, Dr. Natale is not a surgeon, he is an electrophysiologist. EP is a subspecialty of cardiology, not surgery. I have a suggestion for you. You can call Dr. Natale's office and ask to speak to one of his physician's assistants. They could direct you to the literature you are seeking. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 > It may be important to clarify what the definition of success is. > Being unable to induce AF at the end of a procedure might be termed a success. > Being in permanent NSR and med free 12,24 or more months down the road are > perhaps the more useful figures to see. > > -- > D .......................... I've told by every EP I've seen that success is defined as " maintaining a NSR six months after the procedure without the use of anti arrhythmic drugs. P <MI> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 > It may be important to clarify what the definition of success is. > Being unable to induce AF at the end of a procedure might be termed a success. > Being in permanent NSR and med free 12,24 or more months down the road are > perhaps the more useful figures to see. > > -- > D .......................... I've told by every EP I've seen that success is defined as " maintaining a NSR six months after the procedure without the use of anti arrhythmic drugs. P <MI> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 > It may be important to clarify what the definition of success is. > Being unable to induce AF at the end of a procedure might be termed a success. > Being in permanent NSR and med free 12,24 or more months down the road are > perhaps the more useful figures to see. > > -- > D .......................... I've told by every EP I've seen that success is defined as " maintaining a NSR six months after the procedure without the use of anti arrhythmic drugs. P <MI> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 > In a message dated 7/27/04 4:34:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > susanr20z03@y... writes: > > > Kathleen, I just had a consult with Dr. Natale on July 16. I > > specifically asked him about success rates. So here, from the > > horse's mouth, is his answer: 80%, (not 85%) for the first one, 95% > > after a second one. As far as making a selection up front, he told > > me (and don't hold me to this figure because I didn't write it down) > > that 20% of his practice is people who have already had one or two > > ablations at other centers and were not cured. > > > > I didn't have my PVA by Dr. Natale. Time did not allow for it. I chose > another path and have no regrets. That being said. Given all the testimonials on > this board and additional public information, it sounds like Dr. Natale is #1 in > ablation technique, AF research, staff support and bed side manor. The guys a > winner. > I think all our talk about success rates should not take away from his > accomplishments and compassion for his patients. If I needed another PVA, I would go > to Dr. Natale. Period. You gotta go with the winna! (Boston Talk) > Rich O > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 I just had a consult with Dr. Natale on July 16. I > specifically asked him about success rates. So here, from the > horse's mouth, is his answer: 80%, (not 85%) for the first one, 95% > after a second one. > ............................................. He told me exactly the same thing whe I saw him in June....80%. P <MI> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 I just had a consult with Dr. Natale on July 16. I > specifically asked him about success rates. So here, from the > horse's mouth, is his answer: 80%, (not 85%) for the first one, 95% > after a second one. > ............................................. He told me exactly the same thing whe I saw him in June....80%. P <MI> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 > I didn't have my PVA by Dr. Natale. Time did not allow for it. I chose > another path and have no regrets. That being said. Given all the testimonials on > this board and additional public information, it sounds like Dr. Natale is #1 in > ablation technique, AF research, staff support and bed side manor. The guys a > winner. > I think all our talk about success rates should not take away from his > accomplishments and compassion for his patients. If I needed another PVA, I would go > to Dr. Natale. Period. You gotta go with the winna! (Boston Talk) > Rich O ***** Rich, let me try agian to reply---I agree with you, but your Ep was obviously no slouch either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 , one of Dr. Natale's nurses, discussed the procedure with me & asked that I fax my medical records to her. I did so, and a few days later called her to make sure she had received them. She literally said " I think so, yes, here they are. Would you like me to go over them while you're on the phone ? " She did so, and after less than 5 minutes pronounced me a good candidate for the procedure & scheduled my initial my appointment for all the tests required & the PVA the following day. > Thor ........................................................ is one of the nicest medical professionals I've met. I was very impressed with her knowledge, friendliness and her concern about the patient. I was impressed with the whole CC experience. P <MI> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 , one of Dr. Natale's nurses, discussed the procedure with me & asked that I fax my medical records to her. I did so, and a few days later called her to make sure she had received them. She literally said " I think so, yes, here they are. Would you like me to go over them while you're on the phone ? " She did so, and after less than 5 minutes pronounced me a good candidate for the procedure & scheduled my initial my appointment for all the tests required & the PVA the following day. > Thor ........................................................ is one of the nicest medical professionals I've met. I was very impressed with her knowledge, friendliness and her concern about the patient. I was impressed with the whole CC experience. P <MI> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 , one of Dr. Natale's nurses, discussed the procedure with me & asked that I fax my medical records to her. I did so, and a few days later called her to make sure she had received them. She literally said " I think so, yes, here they are. Would you like me to go over them while you're on the phone ? " She did so, and after less than 5 minutes pronounced me a good candidate for the procedure & scheduled my initial my appointment for all the tests required & the PVA the following day. > Thor ........................................................ is one of the nicest medical professionals I've met. I was very impressed with her knowledge, friendliness and her concern about the patient. I was impressed with the whole CC experience. P <MI> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 > I've told by every EP I've seen that success is defined > as " maintaining a NSR six months after the procedure without the use > of anti arrhythmic drugs. > >P <MI> ***** That's been my experience also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 > I've told by every EP I've seen that success is defined > as " maintaining a NSR six months after the procedure without the use > of anti arrhythmic drugs. > >P <MI> ***** That's been my experience also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 > I've told by every EP I've seen that success is defined > as " maintaining a NSR six months after the procedure without the use > of anti arrhythmic drugs. > >P <MI> ***** That's been my experience also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 I would also be interested in longterm studies - 5 to 10 years. I'm assuming Dr. Natale's patients will be tracked. (?) > It may be important to clarify what the definition of success is. > Being unable to induce AF at the end of a procedure might be termed a success. > Being in permanent NSR and med free 12,24 or more months down the road are > perhaps the more useful figures to see. > > -- > D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 I would also be interested in longterm studies - 5 to 10 years. I'm assuming Dr. Natale's patients will be tracked. (?) > It may be important to clarify what the definition of success is. > Being unable to induce AF at the end of a procedure might be termed a success. > Being in permanent NSR and med free 12,24 or more months down the road are > perhaps the more useful figures to see. > > -- > D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 In a message dated 7/27/04 9:15:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, susanr20z03@... writes: > Rich, let me try agian to reply---I agree with you, but your Ep was > obviously no slouch either! > > , I for one appreciate your insights and thoughts. Thanks for stirring the pot! Good job. Rich O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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