Re: KO Anger: still politically incorrect, it would seem

[Guest guest]

I agree: acceptance and/or detachment is a good place to be, but a lot of us

have to pass through anger to get there. I eventually want to reach that stage

you describe, myself; I've been thinking of it as " compassionate detachment " , a

neutral but benign feeling towards nada. I'm just not there yet. I'm starting

to see glimpses of it, though. I truly hate to think of my nada being alone and

terrified by unpleasant hallucinations; nobody deserves that. But I still feel,

well... safe within my anger. Its less intense than it used to be, though, and

that's a good sign.

-Annie

>

> Another thought: The place that I've found in myself is probably best called

" acceptance. " I acknowledge the dysfunction of my family, I don't deny it or

brush feelings away, I accept, clear-eyed that it happened. I don't need to go

any further than that. With acceptance, I find peace. If I want to go back and

dredge up anger, I can do that, but acceptance seems to put it gently to bed,

allows me to turn my focus to other, productive things, like living my life to

the fullest. I don't need to boomerang between anger and forgiveness. I just

accept and move on.

> AFB

>

> --

>

[Guest guest]

Truly, that is a life-altering/mind-altering concept when we as KOs can finally

wrap our heads around it: we are adults now, and we have the right to choose. We

are not obligated to relate to nada on her terms any longer.

-Annie

>

> Brilliantly said!

>

> I'm currently very LC and debating NC with Nada. What has been swirling

inside of me (after 2+ years of weekly therapy with an excellent therapist) is

this: I can choose the relationship I will have with Nada. She'll always

continue to bite me when she's in BPD mode... but I don't have to have to put my

hand in her cage when she's snarling.. just because she wants to bite me.

Hmmm... novel concept, this whole thing of " me first and by my choices. "

>

> I didn't know I could choose. It was always about what SHE wanted. Now it's

about what I want.

>

> Freedom.

>

> Lynnette

[Guest guest]

Truly, that is a life-altering/mind-altering concept when we as KOs can finally

wrap our heads around it: we are adults now, and we have the right to choose. We

are not obligated to relate to nada on her terms any longer.

-Annie

>

> Brilliantly said!

>

> I'm currently very LC and debating NC with Nada. What has been swirling

inside of me (after 2+ years of weekly therapy with an excellent therapist) is

this: I can choose the relationship I will have with Nada. She'll always

continue to bite me when she's in BPD mode... but I don't have to have to put my

hand in her cage when she's snarling.. just because she wants to bite me.

Hmmm... novel concept, this whole thing of " me first and by my choices. "

>

> I didn't know I could choose. It was always about what SHE wanted. Now it's

about what I want.

>

> Freedom.

>

> Lynnette

[Guest guest]

Its a little confusing, but there are (or were) three different discussions on

the same topic at three different locations:

The original article that prompted discussion was by Kristalyn

Salters-Pedneault, PhD at her blog " Borderline Personality Disorder Blog " at

About.com. Those posts are still up:

http://bpd.about.com/b/2010/12/23/have-compassion.htm#comment-60591

Then Randi Kreger wrote an article in response, at her " Stop Walking On

Eggshells " Blog at Psychology Today, which prompted posts in response there.

That is the link you posted, and yes, those posts are still up.

Then, 's article AND Randi's article were posted at " bpdfamily.com " by a

moderator there, along with his comments, and that's what generated the thread

of discussion I was following with interest at bpdfamily.com until it was locked

and then removed altogether. Here's the link to that site:

http://bpdfamily.com

In any case, I wanted to thank you VERY much: I think you've made an important

and astute observation that the families of those with personality disorder are

negatively impacted in a very similar (if not IDENTICAL) way to the way that the

families of alcoholics/drug abusers are negatively impacted. Plus, you pointed

out *why* the psychiatric community seems to be unaware of this! (They study

individuals, not family systems.) I think you've hit on a way to make this

issue much clearer and easier to understand for both the general public and the

psychiatric community. I am very grateful to you for sharing your insight, I

think it will have a great impact on getting this very crucial point across!

-Annie

>

> I found that article and the comments kind of irritating, and I was able to

post there. I have to commend Randi for writing a great response.

>

> I was able to access the comments just a few days ago. I used this link, see

if this works:

>

> http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells

>

>

> I think that the psychology profession, in general, focuses on individuals.

They particularly focus on individuals with pathologies. There are only some

psychologists who see family systems as a whole, and then only for some

pathologies like alcoholism. In terms of alcoholics, there is a general

recognition that children of and spouses of, everyone around them, is affected.

With PDs and other pathologies, most psychologists, I would think, aren't really

aware of how damaging they are to the people around them, and take the

perspective that the people with pathologies have to be advocated for. There

seems to be this bias in psychology towards people with mental illness, which

explains to me why so many people with PDs end up working as counselors. It

seems like most of society doesn't understand what it would be like to have a PD

in your FOO.

>

> This website is really about generating a lot of hits. I think the use of the

word " vitriol " , a word used in the news industry, indicates to me that this

website is about generating controversy and not about resolution. It's a newsy

site, and they want a lot of people to post, so that their advertisers make

money. It's a bottom line thing. I don't think it's set up for mental health

or as a support group. That's how I explained the wierd way they phrased their

position. I had to explain it to myself some kind of way.

>

> Hope you can see it, and check out my post. I haven't checked it since,

because I don't want to see if someone said something mean about my heartfelt

post.

>

> Hugs,

> Walkingto Happiness

>

[Guest guest]

Its a little confusing, but there are (or were) three different discussions on

the same topic at three different locations:

The original article that prompted discussion was by Kristalyn

Salters-Pedneault, PhD at her blog " Borderline Personality Disorder Blog " at

About.com. Those posts are still up:

http://bpd.about.com/b/2010/12/23/have-compassion.htm#comment-60591

Then Randi Kreger wrote an article in response, at her " Stop Walking On

Eggshells " Blog at Psychology Today, which prompted posts in response there.

That is the link you posted, and yes, those posts are still up.

Then, 's article AND Randi's article were posted at " bpdfamily.com " by a

moderator there, along with his comments, and that's what generated the thread

of discussion I was following with interest at bpdfamily.com until it was locked

and then removed altogether. Here's the link to that site:

http://bpdfamily.com

In any case, I wanted to thank you VERY much: I think you've made an important

and astute observation that the families of those with personality disorder are

negatively impacted in a very similar (if not IDENTICAL) way to the way that the

families of alcoholics/drug abusers are negatively impacted. Plus, you pointed

out *why* the psychiatric community seems to be unaware of this! (They study

individuals, not family systems.) I think you've hit on a way to make this

issue much clearer and easier to understand for both the general public and the

psychiatric community. I am very grateful to you for sharing your insight, I

think it will have a great impact on getting this very crucial point across!

-Annie

>

> I found that article and the comments kind of irritating, and I was able to

post there. I have to commend Randi for writing a great response.

>

> I was able to access the comments just a few days ago. I used this link, see

if this works:

>

> http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells

>

>

> I think that the psychology profession, in general, focuses on individuals.

They particularly focus on individuals with pathologies. There are only some

psychologists who see family systems as a whole, and then only for some

pathologies like alcoholism. In terms of alcoholics, there is a general

recognition that children of and spouses of, everyone around them, is affected.

With PDs and other pathologies, most psychologists, I would think, aren't really

aware of how damaging they are to the people around them, and take the

perspective that the people with pathologies have to be advocated for. There

seems to be this bias in psychology towards people with mental illness, which

explains to me why so many people with PDs end up working as counselors. It

seems like most of society doesn't understand what it would be like to have a PD

in your FOO.

>

> This website is really about generating a lot of hits. I think the use of the

word " vitriol " , a word used in the news industry, indicates to me that this

website is about generating controversy and not about resolution. It's a newsy

site, and they want a lot of people to post, so that their advertisers make

money. It's a bottom line thing. I don't think it's set up for mental health

or as a support group. That's how I explained the wierd way they phrased their

position. I had to explain it to myself some kind of way.

>

> Hope you can see it, and check out my post. I haven't checked it since,

because I don't want to see if someone said something mean about my heartfelt

post.

>

> Hugs,

> Walkingto Happiness

>

[Guest guest]

'I believe even saints had a right to show anger.'

Yes, even Jesus expressed anger.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 2:55:34 PM

Subject: Re: KO Anger: still politically incorrect, it would

seem

I agree. Emotions are emotions. You suppose to express them. There's so much

guilt and shame about showing anger. Why? because it makes people

uncomfortable!? or would it make you look weak for showing emotions ?!When you

were being abused what did you suppose to do. Smile and say thank you for the

pain and discomfort ?! Emotions help people. Anger helps at times, like if I

feel anger for being disrespected by Nada I'll go LC or NC. Anger is used

constructively here. But if I use anger to cut my self, hate myself ( anger

misdirected ) then it's self destructive and even for that there's a thing

called behavioural therapy ( for those of us who didn't have an opportunity for

a good role model ). Anger is just a raw emotion and it's your right to have.

What choices we make while or after feeling it is important. Come on, we're just

human beings. I believe even saints had a right to show anger.

[Guest guest]

'I believe even saints had a right to show anger.'

Yes, even Jesus expressed anger.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 2:55:34 PM

Subject: Re: KO Anger: still politically incorrect, it would

seem

I agree. Emotions are emotions. You suppose to express them. There's so much

guilt and shame about showing anger. Why? because it makes people

uncomfortable!? or would it make you look weak for showing emotions ?!When you

were being abused what did you suppose to do. Smile and say thank you for the

pain and discomfort ?! Emotions help people. Anger helps at times, like if I

feel anger for being disrespected by Nada I'll go LC or NC. Anger is used

constructively here. But if I use anger to cut my self, hate myself ( anger

misdirected ) then it's self destructive and even for that there's a thing

called behavioural therapy ( for those of us who didn't have an opportunity for

a good role model ). Anger is just a raw emotion and it's your right to have.

What choices we make while or after feeling it is important. Come on, we're just

human beings. I believe even saints had a right to show anger.

[Guest guest]

>

> I agree: acceptance and/or detachment is a good place to be, but a lot of us

have to pass through anger to get there.

Well this certainly was an AHA! moment for me. Thanks for the enlightenment. I'm

sure I have read this in all three of my BPD go to books SWOE, SWOE workbook and

Surviving the Borderline Parent, but didn't grasp it until I saw it on this site

just a few minutes ago.

Anuria, my deepest gratitude. I would love to find a therapist but I live in an

isolated rural community, with a small fifty bed hospital. I may try to find one

this summer we have a great university about an hour away, maybe I could get

help there but they have a long waiting list. I'm not sure that some of you who

live in areas where therapists are a little more prevalent realize what life

lines you throw to folks like me.

Many, many thanks.

Kay

[Guest guest]

>

> I agree: acceptance and/or detachment is a good place to be, but a lot of us

have to pass through anger to get there.

Well this certainly was an AHA! moment for me. Thanks for the enlightenment. I'm

sure I have read this in all three of my BPD go to books SWOE, SWOE workbook and

Surviving the Borderline Parent, but didn't grasp it until I saw it on this site

just a few minutes ago.

Anuria, my deepest gratitude. I would love to find a therapist but I live in an

isolated rural community, with a small fifty bed hospital. I may try to find one

this summer we have a great university about an hour away, maybe I could get

help there but they have a long waiting list. I'm not sure that some of you who

live in areas where therapists are a little more prevalent realize what life

lines you throw to folks like me.

Many, many thanks.

Kay

[Guest guest]

Glad I could help! Its occurred to me that in a way, our stages of detaching

from our abusive parent/foo and healing from the emotional abuse they inflicted

on us are *sort of* like the stages of grief as described by Dr.

Kubler-Ross, which I've adapted here for our purposes:

Denial:

Nothing's wrong with my mother, She's not mentally ill, The way she treats me

isn't THAT bad, She's just " high-strung " , I'm just too sensitive, etc.

Anger:

Why does MY mother have a personality disorder? Why was I singled out for

abuse? It's just not fair! Why didn't anybody rescue me? Why doesn't my (dad,

siblings, relatives, etc) believe me? What did I do to deserve this? etc.

Bargaining:

I just need to wait and she'll get over it, She didn't mean it, I just need to

try harder, I just need to be more compassionate, Maybe if I offer to go to

therapy with her it will help, etc.

Depression:

I'm so sad, why bother with anything? What's the point? Why go on?

Acceptance:

It's going to be OK, I can't change nada so I might as well just deal with it,

I CAN change the way *I* respond to her behaviors, I can set boundaries, I can

go No Contact, etc.

Excerpt:

" Kübler-Ross originally applied these stages to people suffering from terminal

illness, later to any form of catastrophic personal loss (job, income, freedom).

This may also include significant life events such as the death of a loved one,

divorce, drug addiction, the onset of a disease or chronic illness, an

infertility diagnosis, as well many tragedies and disasters. (like realizing

that your mother has a severe mental illness called bpd.)

Kübler-Ross claimed these steps do not necessarily come in the order noted

above, nor are all steps experienced by all patients, though she stated a person

will always experience at least two. Often, people will experience several

stages in a " roller coaster " effect—switching between two or more stages,

returning to one or more several times before working through it.[2]

Significantly, people experiencing (or caretakers observing) the stages should

not force the process. The grief process is highly personal and should not be

rushed, nor lengthened, on the basis of an individual's imposed time frame or

opinion. One should merely be aware that the stages will be worked through and

the ultimate stage of " Acceptance " will be reached.

However... Those who experience problems working through the stages should

consider professional grief counseling or support groups. "

from " The Kubler-Ross Model " at Wikipedia

-Annie

> >

> > I agree: acceptance and/or detachment is a good place to be, but a lot of us

have to pass through anger to get there.

>

> Well this certainly was an AHA! moment for me. Thanks for the enlightenment.

I'm sure I have read this in all three of my BPD go to books SWOE, SWOE workbook

and Surviving the Borderline Parent, but didn't grasp it until I saw it on this

site just a few minutes ago.

>

> Anuria, my deepest gratitude. I would love to find a therapist but I live in

an isolated rural community, with a small fifty bed hospital. I may try to find

one this summer we have a great university about an hour away, maybe I could get

help there but they have a long waiting list. I'm not sure that some of you who

live in areas where therapists are a little more prevalent realize what life

lines you throw to folks like me.

>

> Many, many thanks.

>

> Kay

>