Re: KO Anger: still politically incorrect, it would seem

[Guest guest]

Brilliantly said!

I'm currently very LC and debating NC with Nada. What has been swirling inside

of me (after 2+ years of weekly therapy with an excellent therapist) is this: I

can choose the relationship I will have with Nada. She'll always continue to

bite me when she's in BPD mode... but I don't have to have to put my hand in her

cage when she's snarling.. just because she wants to bite me. Hmmm... novel

concept, this whole thing of " me first and by my choices. "

I didn't know I could choose. It was always about what SHE wanted. Now it's

about what I want.

Freedom.

Lynnette

>

> It's one thing to forgive and walk away. It's quite another to forgive and

then continue to let the person abuse you, which we KOs are forced to do our

entire lives.

>

> Forgiving someone doesn't mean that their behavior won't make you angry again

when it re-emerges or that you should go right back to letting someone hurt you.

There's a difference between forgiving and sitting back and letting someone

continue to abuse you. That's what these " forgiveness/brightside " folks seem to

be preaching to me. Not forgiveness; because I can forgive my mother. I can

understand that it's a coping mechanism because of the awful incestual

molestation that occured when she was a child, and her own mother refused to

help her. I have complete compassion for her. But she's like a wounded animal.

And while I feel sorry for a wounded animal and can forgive it for it's

frightened behavior, I also am not going to stick my hand in its cage and let it

bite my fingers off.

>

> Forgiveness doesn't mean we have to continue our relationships with the BPDs

in our lives.

>

[Guest guest]

I found that article and the comments kind of irritating, and I was able to post

there. I have to commend Randi for writing a great response.

I was able to access the comments just a few days ago. I used this link, see if

this works:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells

I think that the psychology profession, in general, focuses on individuals.

They particularly focus on individuals with pathologies. There are only some

psychologists who see family systems as a whole, and then only for some

pathologies like alcoholism. In terms of alcoholics, there is a general

recognition that children of and spouses of, everyone around them, is affected.

With PDs and other pathologies, most psychologists, I would think, aren't really

aware of how damaging they are to the people around them, and take the

perspective that the people with pathologies have to be advocated for. There

seems to be this bias in psychology towards people with mental illness, which

explains to me why so many people with PDs end up working as counselors. It

seems like most of society doesn't understand what it would be like to have a PD

in your FOO.

This website is really about generating a lot of hits. I think the use of the

word " vitriol " , a word used in the news industry, indicates to me that this

website is about generating controversy and not about resolution. It's a newsy

site, and they want a lot of people to post, so that their advertisers make

money. It's a bottom line thing. I don't think it's set up for mental health

or as a support group. That's how I explained the wierd way they phrased their

position. I had to explain it to myself some kind of way.

Hope you can see it, and check out my post. I haven't checked it since, because

I don't want to see if someone said something mean about my heartfelt post.

Hugs,

Walkingto Happiness

[Guest guest]

I just read the article and saw Randi's post...

Randi = Good

Article = Bad

Sure... I'll be more compassionate towards Nada...

As soon as I'm whole after 42 years of ongoing abuse. As soon as MY child is

done with his issues of abandonment via Nada. As soon as my dad is safe. As

soon as everyone is free and safe from Nada's craziness.

No problem. I'll be as compassionate as #$%@#$%.

Geez... my therapist pointed this out for me about a year ago... " ... you're mom

is more damaging that the family alcholic because she feels entitled to act the

way she does because of some sense of entitlement to her feelings based on

biological reasons someone told her years ago. She is removed from their

outcomes by choice... and in your case... you're still being abused... badly. "

I wish the author would at least attempt to 'get that.'

Lynnette

>

> I found that article and the comments kind of irritating, and I was able to

post there. I have to commend Randi for writing a great response.

>

> I was able to access the comments just a few days ago. I used this link, see

if this works:

>

> http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells

>

>

> I think that the psychology profession, in general, focuses on individuals.

They particularly focus on individuals with pathologies. There are only some

psychologists who see family systems as a whole, and then only for some

pathologies like alcoholism. In terms of alcoholics, there is a general

recognition that children of and spouses of, everyone around them, is affected.

With PDs and other pathologies, most psychologists, I would think, aren't really

aware of how damaging they are to the people around them, and take the

perspective that the people with pathologies have to be advocated for. There

seems to be this bias in psychology towards people with mental illness, which

explains to me why so many people with PDs end up working as counselors. It

seems like most of society doesn't understand what it would be like to have a PD

in your FOO.

>

> This website is really about generating a lot of hits. I think the use of the

word " vitriol " , a word used in the news industry, indicates to me that this

website is about generating controversy and not about resolution. It's a newsy

site, and they want a lot of people to post, so that their advertisers make

money. It's a bottom line thing. I don't think it's set up for mental health

or as a support group. That's how I explained the wierd way they phrased their

position. I had to explain it to myself some kind of way.

>

> Hope you can see it, and check out my post. I haven't checked it since,

because I don't want to see if someone said something mean about my heartfelt

post.

>

> Hugs,

> Walkingto Happiness

>

[Guest guest]

I just read the article and saw Randi's post...

Randi = Good

Article = Bad

Sure... I'll be more compassionate towards Nada...

As soon as I'm whole after 42 years of ongoing abuse. As soon as MY child is

done with his issues of abandonment via Nada. As soon as my dad is safe. As

soon as everyone is free and safe from Nada's craziness.

No problem. I'll be as compassionate as #$%@#$%.

Geez... my therapist pointed this out for me about a year ago... " ... you're mom

is more damaging that the family alcholic because she feels entitled to act the

way she does because of some sense of entitlement to her feelings based on

biological reasons someone told her years ago. She is removed from their

outcomes by choice... and in your case... you're still being abused... badly. "

I wish the author would at least attempt to 'get that.'

Lynnette

>

> I found that article and the comments kind of irritating, and I was able to

post there. I have to commend Randi for writing a great response.

>

> I was able to access the comments just a few days ago. I used this link, see

if this works:

>

> http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells

>

>

> I think that the psychology profession, in general, focuses on individuals.

They particularly focus on individuals with pathologies. There are only some

psychologists who see family systems as a whole, and then only for some

pathologies like alcoholism. In terms of alcoholics, there is a general

recognition that children of and spouses of, everyone around them, is affected.

With PDs and other pathologies, most psychologists, I would think, aren't really

aware of how damaging they are to the people around them, and take the

perspective that the people with pathologies have to be advocated for. There

seems to be this bias in psychology towards people with mental illness, which

explains to me why so many people with PDs end up working as counselors. It

seems like most of society doesn't understand what it would be like to have a PD

in your FOO.

>

> This website is really about generating a lot of hits. I think the use of the

word " vitriol " , a word used in the news industry, indicates to me that this

website is about generating controversy and not about resolution. It's a newsy

site, and they want a lot of people to post, so that their advertisers make

money. It's a bottom line thing. I don't think it's set up for mental health

or as a support group. That's how I explained the wierd way they phrased their

position. I had to explain it to myself some kind of way.

>

> Hope you can see it, and check out my post. I haven't checked it since,

because I don't want to see if someone said something mean about my heartfelt

post.

>

> Hugs,

> Walkingto Happiness

>

[Guest guest]

I just read the article and saw Randi's post...

Randi = Good

Article = Bad

Sure... I'll be more compassionate towards Nada...

As soon as I'm whole after 42 years of ongoing abuse. As soon as MY child is

done with his issues of abandonment via Nada. As soon as my dad is safe. As

soon as everyone is free and safe from Nada's craziness.

No problem. I'll be as compassionate as #$%@#$%.

Geez... my therapist pointed this out for me about a year ago... " ... you're mom

is more damaging that the family alcholic because she feels entitled to act the

way she does because of some sense of entitlement to her feelings based on

biological reasons someone told her years ago. She is removed from their

outcomes by choice... and in your case... you're still being abused... badly. "

I wish the author would at least attempt to 'get that.'

Lynnette

>

> I found that article and the comments kind of irritating, and I was able to

post there. I have to commend Randi for writing a great response.

>

> I was able to access the comments just a few days ago. I used this link, see

if this works:

>

> http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells

>

>

> I think that the psychology profession, in general, focuses on individuals.

They particularly focus on individuals with pathologies. There are only some

psychologists who see family systems as a whole, and then only for some

pathologies like alcoholism. In terms of alcoholics, there is a general

recognition that children of and spouses of, everyone around them, is affected.

With PDs and other pathologies, most psychologists, I would think, aren't really

aware of how damaging they are to the people around them, and take the

perspective that the people with pathologies have to be advocated for. There

seems to be this bias in psychology towards people with mental illness, which

explains to me why so many people with PDs end up working as counselors. It

seems like most of society doesn't understand what it would be like to have a PD

in your FOO.

>

> This website is really about generating a lot of hits. I think the use of the

word " vitriol " , a word used in the news industry, indicates to me that this

website is about generating controversy and not about resolution. It's a newsy

site, and they want a lot of people to post, so that their advertisers make

money. It's a bottom line thing. I don't think it's set up for mental health

or as a support group. That's how I explained the wierd way they phrased their

position. I had to explain it to myself some kind of way.

>

> Hope you can see it, and check out my post. I haven't checked it since,

because I don't want to see if someone said something mean about my heartfelt

post.

>

> Hugs,

> Walkingto Happiness

>

[Guest guest]

Ooooohhh...

THANK YOU for this explanation. Helps a lot.

+Coal Miner's Daughter

>>

>>

>>

> Children do not understand how it feels when they hit or bite, until someone

does it back to them. BPDs are emotional children and until you allow them to

feel the pain they dish out, they'll keep right on doing it. From my

experience, compassion does not work on BPD, in their minds compassion =

permission.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ooooohhh...

THANK YOU for this explanation. Helps a lot.

+Coal Miner's Daughter

>>

>>

>>

> Children do not understand how it feels when they hit or bite, until someone

does it back to them. BPDs are emotional children and until you allow them to

feel the pain they dish out, they'll keep right on doing it. From my

experience, compassion does not work on BPD, in their minds compassion =

permission.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ooooohhh...

THANK YOU for this explanation. Helps a lot.

+Coal Miner's Daughter

>>

>>

>>

> Children do not understand how it feels when they hit or bite, until someone

does it back to them. BPDs are emotional children and until you allow them to

feel the pain they dish out, they'll keep right on doing it. From my

experience, compassion does not work on BPD, in their minds compassion =

permission.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

After going to this link, click on the link to the comments to the article (with

almost a 100 comments now).

>

> http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells

>

>

[Guest guest]

I really like your explanation of a BP's defintion of compassion. I wish you

would post that on the comments to that article.

Hugs

WTh

>

> I agree with you Annie. You know I have seen this all over the internet and I

am trying to understand it rather then nut myself up with anger over it (I did

that at first...LOL). One thing that I found on the other support groups I've

run across is that the moderators were themselves diagnosed as BPD and I believe

they are asking for compassion but true to the diagnosis, they fail to recognize

the expression of compassion and love from their non-BPD family and friends.

Compassion and love to them seems to me to mean, you will do what I want you to

do, you will rescue me only in the manner with which I choose to impose upon you

and you will adore and lavish me with undying devotion and love no matter what I

say or do or you are wrong, unloving and hateful and I will extract insidious

revenge against you (you're all bad). The challenge is non-BPDs are not

permitted to be who they are because that act means that they are not being who

the BPD wants them to be.

>

> This is the crux of the issue...the non-BPDs incredulous because they are

standing their loving and showing compassion and being verbally and emotionally

beaten for being uncaring, lacking compassion and selfish. It is the BPDs own

failure to consider their view is skewed and then add to that the illness

created by the BPD in the non-BPD of people pleasing, walking on eggshells,

doubting reality and wholly diminished self-esteem from taking the beatings.

>

> There is no easy answer. BPDs not in treatment don't get to abuse people and

not have them react. See, non-BPDs have rights and they may exercise them

however they choose. I think of my own case...I feel so bad for nada, I

understand nada completely but with my high-stress life as it is, I am unable to

cope with the attacks, the verbal beatings, the fear, guilt, obligation,

outbursts etc. I am not strong enough. So, it is what it is. It is lack of

understanding that their mental health may in fact be compromised. However, the

non-BPDs who do realize their mental health has been compromised get help and

begin to heal but only if they can step away from the BPD. If the BPD does not

get help, like an alcoholic, they are forever lost - it is such a tragedy...but

its not our job to solve it. We did not create it. We can understand it and

try to work with it to the best of our ability. If we are angry, we have the

right to be angry and we need no support group to validate that and just because

moderators would like to avoid the conflict of BPDs or the pain of facing what

they created if they are themselves BPD, it doesn't make them right and us

wrong. It's a difficult diagnosis...but I always fall back to what I chose for

me, personally...I choose to be free of abuse period regardless of the source,

regardless of the reason, history, what have you. That's what I need to live a

healthy and productive life.

>

> Many Blessings to All!

>

> Jaie

>

[Guest guest]

I really like your explanation of a BP's defintion of compassion. I wish you

would post that on the comments to that article.

Hugs

WTh

>

> I agree with you Annie. You know I have seen this all over the internet and I

am trying to understand it rather then nut myself up with anger over it (I did

that at first...LOL). One thing that I found on the other support groups I've

run across is that the moderators were themselves diagnosed as BPD and I believe

they are asking for compassion but true to the diagnosis, they fail to recognize

the expression of compassion and love from their non-BPD family and friends.

Compassion and love to them seems to me to mean, you will do what I want you to

do, you will rescue me only in the manner with which I choose to impose upon you

and you will adore and lavish me with undying devotion and love no matter what I

say or do or you are wrong, unloving and hateful and I will extract insidious

revenge against you (you're all bad). The challenge is non-BPDs are not

permitted to be who they are because that act means that they are not being who

the BPD wants them to be.

>

> This is the crux of the issue...the non-BPDs incredulous because they are

standing their loving and showing compassion and being verbally and emotionally

beaten for being uncaring, lacking compassion and selfish. It is the BPDs own

failure to consider their view is skewed and then add to that the illness

created by the BPD in the non-BPD of people pleasing, walking on eggshells,

doubting reality and wholly diminished self-esteem from taking the beatings.

>

> There is no easy answer. BPDs not in treatment don't get to abuse people and

not have them react. See, non-BPDs have rights and they may exercise them

however they choose. I think of my own case...I feel so bad for nada, I

understand nada completely but with my high-stress life as it is, I am unable to

cope with the attacks, the verbal beatings, the fear, guilt, obligation,

outbursts etc. I am not strong enough. So, it is what it is. It is lack of

understanding that their mental health may in fact be compromised. However, the

non-BPDs who do realize their mental health has been compromised get help and

begin to heal but only if they can step away from the BPD. If the BPD does not

get help, like an alcoholic, they are forever lost - it is such a tragedy...but

its not our job to solve it. We did not create it. We can understand it and

try to work with it to the best of our ability. If we are angry, we have the

right to be angry and we need no support group to validate that and just because

moderators would like to avoid the conflict of BPDs or the pain of facing what

they created if they are themselves BPD, it doesn't make them right and us

wrong. It's a difficult diagnosis...but I always fall back to what I chose for

me, personally...I choose to be free of abuse period regardless of the source,

regardless of the reason, history, what have you. That's what I need to live a

healthy and productive life.

>

> Many Blessings to All!

>

> Jaie

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I agree: acceptance and/or detachment is a good place to be, but a lot of us

have to pass through anger to get there.

Well this certainly was an AHA! moment for me. Thanks for the enlightenment. I'm

sure I have read this in all three of my BPD go to books SWOE, SWOE workbook and

Surviving the Borderline Parent, but didn't grasp it until I saw it on this site

just a few minutes ago.

Anuria, my deepest gratitude. I would love to find a therapist but I live in an

isolated rural community, with a small fifty bed hospital. I may try to find one

this summer we have a great university about an hour away, maybe I could get

help there but they have a long waiting list. I'm not sure that some of you who

live in areas where therapists are a little more prevalent realize what life

lines you throw to folks like me.

Many, many thanks.

Kay