Re: Is innate resilence the key?

[Guest guest]

Yes; seems to me that there must be many possible, potential combinations of

factors/variables that result in bpd, otherwise we'd already know what causes it

and there would be preventions and effective treatments or even cures in place.

Unfortunately, personality disorder does not seem to have one single cause, like

a single nasty virus that we can develop a vaccine for and inoculate everyone

against.

-Annie

>

> Agreed; it has to be genes + environment......b/c there are a lot of us that

have siblings with BPD/NPD, but we do not...............it must be the genes

mix, plus perhaps our birth order, plus perhaps other factors, such as excelling

academically, or being particularly lovely, or having very high energy......or,

as another person mentioned, having the good luck to have had a healthy adult

reach out and help us when we are in trouble.

>

> Alastriona

[Guest guest]

Books were my salvation, too..

Mine, too! And it also seems that a lot of resilients were self-parenting from

ideals and healthy patterns they learned from books.

It also might explain why so many of us also seem to be writers .

Kay

[Guest guest]

Wow, Fiona--I really feel your pain I was the golden one for so long, and

Fada was always harder on the boys in the family, and my brother couldn't

ever do right by him, getting in trouble all the time with him (when there

was nothing really for him to be punished to the extent Fada did).

now it's totally flip-flopped. I don't know if he's any harder or easier on

my brother, but I know I'm the black sheep in the family now. I like to

imagine that he's lightened up on my brother, esp now that he's moved out

and married.

It's just my four littlest siblings--I really really worry about them,

especially the way fadas and nadas pit siblings against each other. It's

like in " 1984 " where everybody's encouraged to report on any behavior that

might be seen as subversive.

Thank God DH called CPS to voice his concerns. Between my call last summer

and his call this month, there's some sort of paper trail now.

I hurt all over hearing these stories and thinking of my own

Holly

>

>

> Yenaine - YES! You are very right. I think it is harder, or at least just

> plain hard, for the " golden " child.

>

> I was my father's golden child. I could do no wrong--as long as I always

> did as he said and agreed with me. As long as I wasn't noisy. As long as I

> sat around reading books. As long as I didn't show any interest in boys or

> show signs that I was growing up.

>

> For some reason, my father really disliked my brother. I don't know if I

> will ever know why. [My father is dead.]

>

> I can feel myself even now, getting upset about this, how my father would

> use me against my brother. " Why can't you be more like your sister? Your

> sister did it right? Why can't you? "

>

> One memory I will never, ever forget and that I have trouble understanding

> WHY my father did this: my brother loved his comic books. Even now, he loves

> them. My father could be very, very mean and mean-spirited. He saw how much

> my brother relished his comics. So one day, he gets on my brother's case

> about something he did wrong, so my father says to me, " Fiona, bring me the

> comic books. " My brother started to scream. [it is very, very hard to write

> this.] I said no. He said, " Fiona NOW. " So I brought them to him. Compliant

> and obedient. He slowly and with a big smile ripped them up in front of my

> brother. It was so cruel. I still feel such shame and guilt over that and so

> many other times my father chose me over my brother and I hated my father

> for it. I hated being liked by him.

>

> I became my brother's rescuer and cheerleader, to the point of

> codependence. Now, I avoid his company, I'm sure in part because of all

> these dynamics, but also because it's just hard to be around him. He's a

> very melancholy, solitary person and it takes me so much energy to take in

> all he has to say. I know that I know that I know my father scarred him for

> life, emotionally. But he won't get help.

>

> Anyway, yes, it sucks being the golden one. I'm glad I'm not any more. I

> wish I'd had the courage to grab the comics and run out of the room.

>

> Fiona

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Annie,

> > > >

> > > > It is interesting how we all react differently. In another thread

> here, some were comparing how their mothers demanded academic excellence

> from them, etc. My mother never demanded this from me, but I excelled

> academically anyways, in the hopes that it would get me noticed as a person,

> not just as a possession. Didn't work. My mother was proud of me as a

> possession not as a person. And that always hurt. It's really hard to hear

> her say the words " I'm so proud of you " because there is something so weird

> about the way she says it. It's not believable, and, to me, she's proud of

> me in some way that allows her to brag about me to friends. Yet she never

> had anything to do with any of my success.

> > > >

> > > > I also never equated her behavior with normal. (I never knew it was a

> disorder, I just thought it was her.) I knew other people's families didn't

> behave that way. I think that the survival of the KO in the BPD environment

> is largely affected by how they are cared for by other adults. I realize now

> that I had many other adults in my life that I looked up to and replaced as

> role models over my parents. Unfortunately, some KOs will not have other

> caring adults in their lives. I worry for them.

> > > >

> > > > But make no mistake, even with other adults in my life, I still am

> susceptible to FOG, hoovering, emotional triggers, etc.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have thought the same exact thing...that the intellectual potential I had went

in service to surviving the abuse instead of just serving *me* to be ALL I could

be.What a waste of promise,this energy and capacity used to repair a damage that

never should have been and although I have also achieved,I have lost out on so

much that I could have/might have had.I try not to obsess on that,water under

the bridge,but I agree: what a needless waste,to have to use those resources to

attend to the damage rather than using them to really,really live as I might

have.And what would have happened otherwise or what would have been...I have

many dashed opportunities,horizons that got blotted out...but as long as we are

here to draw another breath,we can determine our future.At the risk of sounding

like a Pollyanna,what happens from now can be better than anything we could have

envisioned for ourselves before.

> Like you said my intelligence helped me to survive but sometimes I wonder

> what it would happened if I would use it for some other things not just for

> surviving and fixing my damaged self almost all my life. I achieve quite a

> lot in my life but still....what a waste.

> Yenaine

[Guest guest]

I have thought the same exact thing...that the intellectual potential I had went

in service to surviving the abuse instead of just serving *me* to be ALL I could

be.What a waste of promise,this energy and capacity used to repair a damage that

never should have been and although I have also achieved,I have lost out on so

much that I could have/might have had.I try not to obsess on that,water under

the bridge,but I agree: what a needless waste,to have to use those resources to

attend to the damage rather than using them to really,really live as I might

have.And what would have happened otherwise or what would have been...I have

many dashed opportunities,horizons that got blotted out...but as long as we are

here to draw another breath,we can determine our future.At the risk of sounding

like a Pollyanna,what happens from now can be better than anything we could have

envisioned for ourselves before.

> Like you said my intelligence helped me to survive but sometimes I wonder

> what it would happened if I would use it for some other things not just for

> surviving and fixing my damaged self almost all my life. I achieve quite a

> lot in my life but still....what a waste.

> Yenaine

[Guest guest]

I have thought the same exact thing...that the intellectual potential I had went

in service to surviving the abuse instead of just serving *me* to be ALL I could

be.What a waste of promise,this energy and capacity used to repair a damage that

never should have been and although I have also achieved,I have lost out on so

much that I could have/might have had.I try not to obsess on that,water under

the bridge,but I agree: what a needless waste,to have to use those resources to

attend to the damage rather than using them to really,really live as I might

have.And what would have happened otherwise or what would have been...I have

many dashed opportunities,horizons that got blotted out...but as long as we are

here to draw another breath,we can determine our future.At the risk of sounding

like a Pollyanna,what happens from now can be better than anything we could have

envisioned for ourselves before.

> Like you said my intelligence helped me to survive but sometimes I wonder

> what it would happened if I would use it for some other things not just for

> surviving and fixing my damaged self almost all my life. I achieve quite a

> lot in my life but still....what a waste.

> Yenaine

[Guest guest]

((((Fiona))))) As a child,you wouldn't have been able to grab those comics and

run out of the room.I've had these kinds of discussions with my therapist,about

owning the shame and guilt that rightfully belong to my abusers,not to me.It's

so hard when you're put into an untenable situation that simply should not have

happened in the first place...the shame and guilt you feel over being *forced*

to be complicit in an abusive act is an indication of your basic health,of

having a conscience and to me it's just terrible how we as children who had a

chance of being healthy got saddled with these personality disordered parents

and now we bear these burdens that really aren't ours to bear.

I'm sorry it hurt you so much to write that.My younger brother was the

" golden " one and,you know,he never had the bedrock of conscience and health that

you had and have.If ever he told me that he felt such shame and guilt for having

joined in scapegoating me,I'd want to relieve him of that.I can't blame him for

how he behaved as a child,but as an adult he is not like you: he continues to

smear me as all bad.I'm really sorry that the dysfunction in your family,that

wasn't your fault,led you to wanting to be your brother's rescuer and

cheerleader to the point of codepedence and that you feel now as if you can't

take in his pain.That you can even say that indicates your basic soundness; that

fundamentally you are healthy.The fact that it hurts--as horribly sucky as it

is--speaks to your soundness of mind.

My " golden " brother has no such shame or guilt for the way that he treated

me,or treats me now,and he has no real sense of personal agency.He also won't

get help although he needs it so badly---because he has no idea that he needs

it.I hurt for him,as the one who " got out " while he is still so toxically

enmeshed...the estrangement between siblings that happens because of our

parents' mental illness and the needless suffering both siblings endure is

really tragic.I feel very sad for my brother but I can't stand dealing with his

denial,projection and aggression.I miss the brother I never really had.I am

afraid of my brother and that is truly a tragedy for both of us.

It's not your fault,it's the legacy we inherit itself that it shameful,not

us...

[Guest guest]

((((Fiona))))) As a child,you wouldn't have been able to grab those comics and

run out of the room.I've had these kinds of discussions with my therapist,about

owning the shame and guilt that rightfully belong to my abusers,not to me.It's

so hard when you're put into an untenable situation that simply should not have

happened in the first place...the shame and guilt you feel over being *forced*

to be complicit in an abusive act is an indication of your basic health,of

having a conscience and to me it's just terrible how we as children who had a

chance of being healthy got saddled with these personality disordered parents

and now we bear these burdens that really aren't ours to bear.

I'm sorry it hurt you so much to write that.My younger brother was the

" golden " one and,you know,he never had the bedrock of conscience and health that

you had and have.If ever he told me that he felt such shame and guilt for having

joined in scapegoating me,I'd want to relieve him of that.I can't blame him for

how he behaved as a child,but as an adult he is not like you: he continues to

smear me as all bad.I'm really sorry that the dysfunction in your family,that

wasn't your fault,led you to wanting to be your brother's rescuer and

cheerleader to the point of codepedence and that you feel now as if you can't

take in his pain.That you can even say that indicates your basic soundness; that

fundamentally you are healthy.The fact that it hurts--as horribly sucky as it

is--speaks to your soundness of mind.

My " golden " brother has no such shame or guilt for the way that he treated

me,or treats me now,and he has no real sense of personal agency.He also won't

get help although he needs it so badly---because he has no idea that he needs

it.I hurt for him,as the one who " got out " while he is still so toxically

enmeshed...the estrangement between siblings that happens because of our

parents' mental illness and the needless suffering both siblings endure is

really tragic.I feel very sad for my brother but I can't stand dealing with his

denial,projection and aggression.I miss the brother I never really had.I am

afraid of my brother and that is truly a tragedy for both of us.

It's not your fault,it's the legacy we inherit itself that it shameful,not

us...

[Guest guest]

((((Fiona))))) As a child,you wouldn't have been able to grab those comics and

run out of the room.I've had these kinds of discussions with my therapist,about

owning the shame and guilt that rightfully belong to my abusers,not to me.It's

so hard when you're put into an untenable situation that simply should not have

happened in the first place...the shame and guilt you feel over being *forced*

to be complicit in an abusive act is an indication of your basic health,of

having a conscience and to me it's just terrible how we as children who had a

chance of being healthy got saddled with these personality disordered parents

and now we bear these burdens that really aren't ours to bear.

I'm sorry it hurt you so much to write that.My younger brother was the

" golden " one and,you know,he never had the bedrock of conscience and health that

you had and have.If ever he told me that he felt such shame and guilt for having

joined in scapegoating me,I'd want to relieve him of that.I can't blame him for

how he behaved as a child,but as an adult he is not like you: he continues to

smear me as all bad.I'm really sorry that the dysfunction in your family,that

wasn't your fault,led you to wanting to be your brother's rescuer and

cheerleader to the point of codepedence and that you feel now as if you can't

take in his pain.That you can even say that indicates your basic soundness; that

fundamentally you are healthy.The fact that it hurts--as horribly sucky as it

is--speaks to your soundness of mind.

My " golden " brother has no such shame or guilt for the way that he treated

me,or treats me now,and he has no real sense of personal agency.He also won't

get help although he needs it so badly---because he has no idea that he needs

it.I hurt for him,as the one who " got out " while he is still so toxically

enmeshed...the estrangement between siblings that happens because of our

parents' mental illness and the needless suffering both siblings endure is

really tragic.I feel very sad for my brother but I can't stand dealing with his

denial,projection and aggression.I miss the brother I never really had.I am

afraid of my brother and that is truly a tragedy for both of us.

It's not your fault,it's the legacy we inherit itself that it shameful,not

us...