Re: Re: minimizing minimizing

January 19, 2011

Girlscout,

I understand this completely. My mother was extremely high-functioning. The

house was beautifully decorated, I was dressed stylishly, had travel

opportunities, lessons, a pool in the backyard, and to all appearances a perfect

childhood.

But if I disagreed with her I got the silent treatment - and for whatever reason

(I have very few memories before age 14) I was so compliant I simply didn't.

(She told DD if she went away to college she would " die " and demanded constant

contact from me too. I feel certain this is why I turned down two full

scholarships at away schools, etc.)

And there's lots more I won't put here.

But my point is that because there was no screaming (I think) or raging or

hitting or physical neglect I start thinking it wasn't that bad and maybe I am

the crazy one. IE minimizing.

So I get where you are coming from with this.

Em

Sent from my blueberry.

> So my T pointed out to me a few days ago that when I first came to see her I

> > was seriously minimizing the abuse I suffered

January 19, 2011

Girlscout,

I understand this completely. My mother was extremely high-functioning. The

house was beautifully decorated, I was dressed stylishly, had travel

opportunities, lessons, a pool in the backyard, and to all appearances a perfect

childhood.

But if I disagreed with her I got the silent treatment - and for whatever reason

(I have very few memories before age 14) I was so compliant I simply didn't.

(She told DD if she went away to college she would " die " and demanded constant

contact from me too. I feel certain this is why I turned down two full

scholarships at away schools, etc.)

And there's lots more I won't put here.

But my point is that because there was no screaming (I think) or raging or

hitting or physical neglect I start thinking it wasn't that bad and maybe I am

the crazy one. IE minimizing.

So I get where you are coming from with this.

Em

Sent from my blueberry.

> So my T pointed out to me a few days ago that when I first came to see her I

> > was seriously minimizing the abuse I suffered

January 19, 2011

Huh Annie - i just can't imagine anyone considering my nada to be " high

functioning. " She did have melt downs in public every once in a while. And

she got into some shouting matches at church that turned into full on feuds

(ha ha at CHURCH!). And she wasn't able to pay her bills or keep up with

that though she tried to about once every 6 months and she made it a huge

production, even setting up a special table to do the job right in the

doorway to the living room.

So I guess I'm imagining a giant continuum between high and low functioning

BPD. At the low end we have the prison population and at the high end, we

have these nadas with perfect homes and perfectly groomed children with

beautiful yards and house plants. My nada was probably about 1/3rd of the

way in from very low functioning. That's my best guess. . . I don't know why

it matters to me so much. Actually, I do know why it matters. Because it

seems to me that if she was low functioning, someone somewhere somehow

should have noticed what she was doing to me. And if she was high

functioning, she would have been able to hide it and I would be able to see

that and understand it. But as for me, I don't see how anyone could look at

a 300 pound woman with flaming red, pink and orange spiked hair wearing

denim overalls every single day in one of the most conservative areas in the

country, having melt downs at church and at the mall (she flat out refused

to grocery shop or else there would be more melt downs) and not see

something was wrong.

And my therapist would probably add that the fact that this happened leaves

me assuming and believing that no one noticed because I wasn't worth

noticing.

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 11:47 AM, yp_lynnette_cameron_park <

h_l_maston@...> wrote:

>

> {{{Hugs}}}

>

> I minimized too. Therapists #1 concern with me when I first saw her was

> that I had NO ANGER at what had been done to me. Zip. Zilch. Nothing. It

> took over a year of weekly therapy for me to get mad. Then another 6 months

> for me to realize I had been " seriously, repeatedly, systematically sbused.

> And the abuse contines. " Gulp.

>

> I 'hear' ya.

>

> Lynnette

>

> >

> > So my T pointed out to me a few days ago that when I first came to see

> her I

> > was seriously minimizing the abuse I suffered. She said that I would have

> > been removed from the home if the authorities had been aware. I doubt

> this

> > would ever happen, because the community I grew up in had blinders on ,

> it

> > was literally known by the nickname " Happy Valley " and the residents

> heard

> > no evil, saw no evil, smelled no evil and tasted no evil, so long as the

> > evil people were " members " of the community. T and I talked about how the

> > world has changed to some degree since I was small, child abuse advocates

> > are more aggressive, teachers are subject to more stringent child

> protection

> > laws etc. Personally though, i think the community I am from still has

> their

> > blinders firmly in place. Evidence of this is the fact that my mother

> > teaches disabled children - I can't imagine a more frightening situation

> for

> > vulnerable tiny kids. wow

> >

> > Anyway, my point is that there is one more issue I have really minimized.

> > The hoarding. I thought my mother was a hoarder, but I wasn't sure how

> > severe. The thing is, when it is " normal " to you because it has always

> been

> > that way since you were born, it is hard to know what other people would

> > think is normal. So for research last night I watched a Brittish

> documentary

> > about hoarding as well as a couple of episodes of The Hoarders.

> >

> > The verdict --- yes my mother was a hoarder. She brought home piles of

> shit

> > from the thrift stores every weekend, spending her entire pay check on

> junk.

> > She didn't think she should have to share her income with her family and

> so

> > she didn't. She had serious debt problems because she couldn't control

> her

> > spending. Our house was filled floor to ceiling with crap - not as bad as

> on

> > The Hoarders, but very very close to the levels seen on the Brittish

> show. I

> > believe it would have been worse if my dad hadn't periodically thrown

> things

> > out and fought with her about it. It was bad enough that their weren't

> empty

> > chairs to sit on, doors wouldn't close because of crap, and if you

> openned

> > the kitchen cupboards, dishes would come flying out and hit you in the

> head.

> > It was a very hard home to live in. To this day I can't stand rugs in a

> home

> > because her unwashed rugs would wad up and block the doors from openning

> and

> > closing, making it hard if not impossible to get into and out of the

> house.

> > And did I mention she had 2 file cabinets next to her bed as well as

> stacks

> > and stacks of papers. She saved everything for her " jounrals. " I think

> she

> > believed someone would one day (probably me) would write a book about her

> > life using every scrap of paper that came her way. She also tended toward

> > animal hoarding, though that never got as severe as on the shows. The

> worst

> > was the cats- when I was little she sort of collected pregnant female

> stray

> > cats and then " gave " them to me so that they were my responsibility. At

> age

> > 6, 7, 8 and 9, I had as many as 10 cats at a time that were entirely my

> > responsibility. I could break out in a cold sweat just remembering the

> > stress. And they died. They died all the time, kitten birth

> complications,

> > hit by cars etc etc. UGHHHHH SHIVER!!! I'm an animal lover and it about

> > killed me to not be able to take care of them. But I was too small and

> there

> > were too many. And then she blamed me for it. I've never had a cat since

> > then.

> >

> > Another indication of hoarding - and I don't totaly get this one. After I

> > married (now divorced) and bought my own home, I wanted to go get my

> > belongings and clean out my room in her home. She Threw A Huge Fit!!! She

> > never let me in to get my stuff. Then she would bring me a few things at

> a

> > time out of my room (I had particularly wanted to get my childhood

> journals

> > and favorite toys and stuffed animals). She seemed to need too control

> which

> > things I could have, and when I could have them. I even went to her home

> a

> > few times to find girls a little younger than me wearing my clothes out

> of

> > my room!!!! Is that weird or what? Now I chalk it up to abandonment fears

> on

> > her part. And I dealt with it by turning my back and walking away on all

> the

> > people, posessions and everything else.

> >

> > I don't know what I'm asking for from you guys, I guess I just wanted to

> > share. It seems to me that the high functioning BPDs are perfectionists

> > about their homes, while the low functioning tend to hoard. I am not

> totally

> > sure, but I think my nada leaned very much toward the low functioning

> side.

> > She did do certain things - she held a job, she finished her BS degree

> (it

> > took 9 years for a 4 year degree), she played piano pretty well, but on

> the

> > other had she hardly got out of bed on Saturdays, it took her 2 hours to

> > complete a 15 min task, she couldn't make left hand turns in the car and

> she

> > never prepared a single meal after my 5th birthday etc etc etc. Anyone

> have

> > opinions on high or low functioning?

> >

> > XOXO thanks for letting me ramble, Girlscout

> >

January 19, 2011

Yeah I guess another aspect of the sting of the neglect is that I treat my

dogs so much better than she treated me - better than any adult did. For

example, boyfriend gets home from work about an hour and a half before me.

Every day when I get home I check to see if my dogs have water. Last week

for 3 nights in a row they didn't and I threw a total fit that I wouldn't

allow my pets to go without water and set a schedule for him to follow to

make sure they aren't dehydrated for 90 min before I arrive home. i check

before work and now he checks after.

No one did that kind of thing for me. Not once. . . . Ugh.

I'm having a bad day. I spilled water in my laptop and I may have to have

surgery, I was just at the doctor and now I'm trying to get an ultra sound

appt for my liver/gallbladder. So maybe I'm just upset about that and its

bleeding into all the saddness in my life.

UGH!

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 4:53 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

>

> You're right, your nada's behaviors do sound more like a middle-range of

> functionality; she's OK with small children as her students but not OK

> around other adults, or around her own kids.

>

> And I agree, it hurts pretty badly to realize that even though other

> adults, particularly our grandparents, aunts, uncles or our own fathers

> *knew* that something was wrong with our mom and that we kids were very

> likely being mistreated, still... they did nothing about it.

> Its not so much that the child isn't worth it, its that the non-pd adults

> are basically... wimps and dishrags.

>

> I think family members of the mentally ill probably all swim in the same

> pond of denial and minimizing RE their relative or spouse with bpd because

> openly recognizing it and pointing it out means an ugly confrontation with

> the person with bpd and being painted " all black " by them permanently.

>

> Most people *hate* confrontation and avoid it like the plague. They think

> of all kinds of reasons to avoid confrontation; they don't want to step in

> because " its not my business " , or because " she's just having a bad day " or,

> " Oh, its not that bad. "

>

> But as the adult child of a Cluster B mom with a hair-trigger temper whose

> rages would escalate into physical violence, and who would relieve her own

> feelings of inadequacy and self-loathing by projecting those unwanted

> attributes onto me, I can assure the public that yes, it IS " that bad. "

>

> I think everyone should be a " mandated reporter " and I urge all non-pd

> adults to grow a backbone and say something when they recognize that a child

> is being emotionally or physically abused and mistreated and/or neglected or

> exploited by her own parents/caregivers.

>

> Break the cycle of denial and generational abuse!

>

> -Annie

>

> >

> > Huh Annie - i just can't imagine anyone considering my nada to be " high

> > functioning. " She did have melt downs in public every once in a while.

> And

> > she got into some shouting matches at church that turned into full on

> feuds

> > (ha ha at CHURCH!). And she wasn't able to pay her bills or keep up with

> > that though she tried to about once every 6 months and she made it a huge

> > production, even setting up a special table to do the job right in the

> > doorway to the living room.

> >

> > So I guess I'm imagining a giant continuum between high and low

> functioning

> > BPD. At the low end we have the prison population and at the high end, we

> > have these nadas with perfect homes and perfectly groomed children with

> > beautiful yards and house plants. My nada was probably about 1/3rd of the

> > way in from very low functioning. That's my best guess. . . I don't know

> why

> > it matters to me so much. Actually, I do know why it matters. Because it

> > seems to me that if she was low functioning, someone somewhere somehow

> > should have noticed what she was doing to me. And if she was high

> > functioning, she would have been able to hide it and I would be able to

> see

> > that and understand it. But as for me, I don't see how anyone could look

> at

> > a 300 pound woman with flaming red, pink and orange spiked hair wearing

> > denim overalls every single day in one of the most conservative areas in

> the

> > country, having melt downs at church and at the mall (she flat out

> refused

> > to grocery shop or else there would be more melt downs) and not see

> > something was wrong.

> >

> > And my therapist would probably add that the fact that this happened

> leaves

> > me assuming and believing that no one noticed because I wasn't worth

> > noticing.

> >

>

January 19, 2011

Yep, I understand too and could have written what Lynnette wrote - same

thing, no anger. When I was discussing with my former T about a problem I

was having, she said something like " I think anyone who lived through the

type of abuse you did would feel that way " . I stopped and said, " I wasn't

abused " . She handled it perfectly... she didn't look at me funny or gasp or

anything, she just asked me what I thought abuse was. I went into detail

about some of the really awful horror stories you hear about parents locking

kids in closets and sexual abuse. She simply said something like, " You're

right, that is absolutely abuse. But not all abuse is that severe or

extreme. " She then gave me homework to learn more about abuse. It suddenly

started to hit me, I WAS abused. I absolutely think that I was minimizing

the situation. Absolutely yes.

Mia

>

January 19, 2011