Re: non-BPs and anger toward BPs

[Guest guest]

Hi, Randi,

I wanted to let you know that I read your book STOP WALKING ON EGGSHELLS and

it was very helpful to me in learning about what BPD is, etc. I just

recently learned about BPD and that my mother has this although she has

never been " officially " diagnosed. The symptoms are classic.

Perhaps you can help me with the following: I signed up with

" WTOAdultChildren " some time back, but would now like to cancel this. How

can I go about doing this? ly I don't have time to read all the emails

for this and my inbox is quickly getting a LOT of emails in it.

Thank you for your help.

Sincerely,

Mrs. Wooden

On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Randi Kreger wrote:

>

>

>

>

> http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells

>

> Should we post angry comments on blogs, or keep it in? What is the

> difference between healthy and unhealthy anger? Are family members expected

> to hold in their rage and be very understanding when rage is directed to

> them? See my latest blog post on the subject. Subscribe while you're at it

> and you'll be notified when I post (about twice a month).

>

> Randi Kreger

>

> Randi @BPDCentral.com

>

> Author, " The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder: New

> Tools and Techniques to Stop Walking on Eggshells "

>

> Available at www.BPDCentral.com <http://www.bpdcentral.com/>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Randi,

I wanted to let you know that I read your book STOP WALKING ON EGGSHELLS and

it was very helpful to me in learning about what BPD is, etc. I just

recently learned about BPD and that my mother has this although she has

never been " officially " diagnosed. The symptoms are classic.

Perhaps you can help me with the following: I signed up with

" WTOAdultChildren " some time back, but would now like to cancel this. How

can I go about doing this? ly I don't have time to read all the emails

for this and my inbox is quickly getting a LOT of emails in it.

Thank you for your help.

Sincerely,

Mrs. Wooden

On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Randi Kreger wrote:

>

>

>

>

> http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells

>

> Should we post angry comments on blogs, or keep it in? What is the

> difference between healthy and unhealthy anger? Are family members expected

> to hold in their rage and be very understanding when rage is directed to

> them? See my latest blog post on the subject. Subscribe while you're at it

> and you'll be notified when I post (about twice a month).

>

> Randi Kreger

>

> Randi @BPDCentral.com

>

> Author, " The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder: New

> Tools and Techniques to Stop Walking on Eggshells "

>

> Available at www.BPDCentral.com <http://www.bpdcentral.com/>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I wanted to let Randi know that the link to your article is not working any

longer. I can get to the main page at Psychology Today with the first paragraph

of your article and the comments link, which is accessible, but the entire SWOE

blog post itself is not accessible now. Hopefully its just my computer that's

screwy, but, maybe you can check that link, Randi, to make sure its working?

There are very interesting comments and debates going on RE Randi's article both

at the Psychology Today site and at another site for those with a bpd in their

life, called bpdfamily.com.

The topic being: " Do family members of people with borderline pd have enough

compassion? "

Me personally, I think that the point being missed is that the parent-child

relationship is unique: you only get one biomom and one biodad. Its the very

definition of an unchosen relationship: even the parents have a choice on

whether to get pregnant or not, the child has Absolutely No Choice At All. And

on top of that the infant and child is the very definition of " helpless victim "

when the parent is abusive.

If a child grows to maturity with chronic, even daily emotional abuse, physical

abuse, and/or sexual abuse, the whole issue of having " compassion " for his or

her abuser is in an *entirely different context* than in a chosen relationship,

or even when its the opposite end of the unchosen relationship: when a non-pd

parent gives birth to a pd child.

For me, its like asking the victim of incest to have compassion for and to

remain in contact with her rapist, because the poor rapist has a personality

disorder and is suffering, and can't help himself.

Nobody in their right mind would ask such a thing of a victim of incest: " But

he's your f-a-a-ather, he loves you, that's just the way he is, you have to be

more forgiving, blah, blah, blah. "

Um, no. Daddy needs to go to jail for doing that to his little girl or little

boy. And Mommies who starve their child, lock their child in a closet for days

without food or water, publicly shame and humiliate their child, steal from

their child, sell their child for drugs, refuse to provide medical care, turn

their child into their servant/rescuer/parent, refuse to ever be pleased or

never give praise or encouragement, batter their child, etc., are also guilty of

criminal child abuse and should do some jail time or be under psychiatric care

in an institution for the criminally insane.

But the victims of emotionally and physically and even sexually abusive mothers

aren't shown the same compassion, and we are told our anger is " not nice " or

" inappropriate " or " hurtful " .

Um, no. Its righteous anger. Its appropriate anger. I have both the right and

the need to express it. Its part of my healing process. How long do I stay in

the anger phase, how long is it healthy to do so? I don't know. How long does

it take child POWs to recover from growing up in a concentration camp?

I think the adult survivors of child abuse simply have a different experience

and different needs RE showing or not showing compassion toward their perp, aka

parent, than others do and that needs to be respected and validated.

-Annie

>

>

>

> http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells

>

>

>

> Should we post angry comments on blogs, or keep it in? What is the

> difference between healthy and unhealthy anger? Are family members expected

> to hold in their rage and be very understanding when rage is directed to

> them? See my latest blog post on the subject. Subscribe while you're at it

> and you'll be notified when I post (about twice a month).

>

>

>

> Randi Kreger

>

> Randi @BPDCentral.com

>

> Author, " The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder: New

> Tools and Techniques to Stop Walking on Eggshells "

>

> Available at www.BPDCentral.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Update: the link is working again, thanks!

Annie

>

> I wanted to let Randi know that the link to your article is not working any

longer. I can get to the main page at Psychology Today with the first paragraph

of your article and the comments link, which is accessible, but the entire SWOE

blog post itself is not accessible now. Hopefully its just my computer that's

screwy, but, maybe you can check that link, Randi, to make sure its working?

>

[Guest guest]

Update: the link is working again, thanks!

Annie

>

> I wanted to let Randi know that the link to your article is not working any

longer. I can get to the main page at Psychology Today with the first paragraph

of your article and the comments link, which is accessible, but the entire SWOE

blog post itself is not accessible now. Hopefully its just my computer that's

screwy, but, maybe you can check that link, Randi, to make sure its working?

>

[Guest guest]

Update: the link is working again, thanks!

Annie

>

> I wanted to let Randi know that the link to your article is not working any

longer. I can get to the main page at Psychology Today with the first paragraph

of your article and the comments link, which is accessible, but the entire SWOE

blog post itself is not accessible now. Hopefully its just my computer that's

screwy, but, maybe you can check that link, Randi, to make sure its working?

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Randi, for the article you wrote. Thank you so much!

I posted this message at the site:

" When alcoholics enter AA, one of the steps required of them is going to the

people they have hurt and asking for forgiveness, and being accountable for

their actions.

Family members of people with Borderline Personality Disorder, in contrast,

often never are allowed to express their own hurt, and are expected to take on a

caretaking role. The definition of family ought to be a place where everyone

can express their feelings, as long as they respect others. The problem with

BPD people inside the family environment, is that their needs take over everyone

else's. And people with BPD often do not aknowledge their damaging and abusive

actions. In psychologically evaluative settings, such as counseling sessions,

BPDs act differently than the reality that family members see; BPD people are by

definition master manipulators.

When family members of alcoholics show compassion, it is called enabling. When

family members of BPD people ask that the BP person be held accountable for

their harmful and abusive actions, we are told to be more accountable... this

doesn't make much sense. In essence, this article seems to be telling us to

enable further the destructive behavior of BPD people, at the cost of our own

development and happiness. It is really sad how the psychology profession

seems to prefer the caretaking of unhealthy BPDs over the healthiness of family

members. Remember that the expression of anger on the part of family members is

also an expression of hurt.

Who holds BPD people accountable for their actions? Articles such as these

enable the destructive behavior of BPD people, and ask that family members

enable that abuse and destruction. I wish psychologists could use their efforts

to create more mental health, instead of reinforcing and supporting the abusive

people. "

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Randi, for the article you wrote. Thank you so much!

I posted this message at the site:

" When alcoholics enter AA, one of the steps required of them is going to the

people they have hurt and asking for forgiveness, and being accountable for

their actions.

Family members of people with Borderline Personality Disorder, in contrast,

often never are allowed to express their own hurt, and are expected to take on a

caretaking role. The definition of family ought to be a place where everyone

can express their feelings, as long as they respect others. The problem with

BPD people inside the family environment, is that their needs take over everyone

else's. And people with BPD often do not aknowledge their damaging and abusive

actions. In psychologically evaluative settings, such as counseling sessions,

BPDs act differently than the reality that family members see; BPD people are by

definition master manipulators.

When family members of alcoholics show compassion, it is called enabling. When

family members of BPD people ask that the BP person be held accountable for

their harmful and abusive actions, we are told to be more accountable... this

doesn't make much sense. In essence, this article seems to be telling us to

enable further the destructive behavior of BPD people, at the cost of our own

development and happiness. It is really sad how the psychology profession

seems to prefer the caretaking of unhealthy BPDs over the healthiness of family

members. Remember that the expression of anger on the part of family members is

also an expression of hurt.

Who holds BPD people accountable for their actions? Articles such as these

enable the destructive behavior of BPD people, and ask that family members

enable that abuse and destruction. I wish psychologists could use their efforts

to create more mental health, instead of reinforcing and supporting the abusive

people. "

[Guest guest]

Thanks for sharing your reply here, I think what you posted is very

well-reasoned and the points you made by comparing bpd behavior to alcoholic

recovery are really valid.

I agree that the adult children and spouses of those with bpd seem to be held to

a different standard than the families of alcoholics. KOs appear to be saddled

with the responsibility of " bpd maintenance " , whereas alcoholics are expected to

accept responsibility for their own behaviors and their own recovery.

You're right: that doesn't make sense, and it isn't fair.

I've been hitting my head against that brick wall of illogic for a while now: on

the one hand, bpd-compassion-advocates say that the bpd is so damaged and is

suffering so badly that the family members need to show compassion and " manage "

the relationship by becoming in effect full-time psychotherapists for the person

with bpd. While on the other hand, illogically, the bpd-compassion-advocates

say that the person with bpd has the capacity to accept personal responsibility

for their behaviors and is able to consciously learn how to modify and control

their behaviors and " recover. "

Well, you can't have your cake and eat it too; its one or the other.

If a bpd individual is so thought-disordered, impulsive, irrational, suicidal,

violent, and emotionally disregulated that she must be handled with kid gloves,

then, she's not in control of her own behaviors and is too mentally ill to be

raising children. Such an individual needs to be under psychiatric care, and

her children need to be removed for their own safety and emotional health.

If a bpd individual acts out abusively but has enough control over her behaviors

to appear " normal " in public, only target certain individuals (such as her

children and/or her spouse), is able to commit violent physical and emotional

and/or sexual abuse but keep it just " under the radar " of public detection,

then, she needs to be held accountable for the abuse she inflicts and be brought

up on criminal charges if she's crossed that line with mistreatment of her kids,

and the kids need to be removed from her care for their own safety and emotional

health.

-Annie

>

> Thanks, Randi, for the article you wrote. Thank you so much!

>

> I posted this message at the site:

>

> " When alcoholics enter AA, one of the steps required of them is going to the

people they have hurt and asking for forgiveness, and being accountable for

their actions.

>

> Family members of people with Borderline Personality Disorder, in contrast,

often never are allowed to express their own hurt, and are expected to take on a

caretaking role. The definition of family ought to be a place where everyone

can express their feelings, as long as they respect others. The problem with

BPD people inside the family environment, is that their needs take over everyone

else's. And people with BPD often do not aknowledge their damaging and abusive

actions. In psychologically evaluative settings, such as counseling sessions,

BPDs act differently than the reality that family members see; BPD people are by

definition master manipulators.

>

> When family members of alcoholics show compassion, it is called enabling.

When family members of BPD people ask that the BP person be held accountable for

their harmful and abusive actions, we are told to be more accountable... this

doesn't make much sense. In essence, this article seems to be telling us to

enable further the destructive behavior of BPD people, at the cost of our own

development and happiness. It is really sad how the psychology profession

seems to prefer the caretaking of unhealthy BPDs over the healthiness of family

members. Remember that the expression of anger on the part of family members is

also an expression of hurt.

>

> Who holds BPD people accountable for their actions? Articles such as these

enable the destructive behavior of BPD people, and ask that family members

enable that abuse and destruction. I wish psychologists could use their efforts

to create more mental health, instead of reinforcing and supporting the abusive

people. "

>