Guest guest Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 My Nada - " Working on the same B.A. in Psych since 1968. " Yeah, I get it. Lynnette > > > > > > So my T pointed out to me a few days ago that when I first came to see > > her I > > > was seriously minimizing the abuse I suffered. She said that I would have > > > been removed from the home if the authorities had been aware. I doubt > > this > > > would ever happen, because the community I grew up in had blinders on , > > it > > > was literally known by the nickname " Happy Valley " and the residents > > heard > > > no evil, saw no evil, smelled no evil and tasted no evil, so long as the > > > evil people were " members " of the community. T and I talked about how the > > > world has changed to some degree since I was small, child abuse advocates > > > are more aggressive, teachers are subject to more stringent child > > protection > > > laws etc. Personally though, i think the community I am from still has > > their > > > blinders firmly in place. Evidence of this is the fact that my mother > > > teaches disabled children - I can't imagine a more frightening situation > > for > > > vulnerable tiny kids. wow > > > > > > Anyway, my point is that there is one more issue I have really minimized. > > > The hoarding. I thought my mother was a hoarder, but I wasn't sure how > > > severe. The thing is, when it is " normal " to you because it has always > > been > > > that way since you were born, it is hard to know what other people would > > > think is normal. So for research last night I watched a Brittish > > documentary > > > about hoarding as well as a couple of episodes of The Hoarders. > > > > > > The verdict --- yes my mother was a hoarder. She brought home piles of > > shit > > > from the thrift stores every weekend, spending her entire pay check on > > junk. > > > She didn't think she should have to share her income with her family and > > so > > > she didn't. She had serious debt problems because she couldn't control > > her > > > spending. Our house was filled floor to ceiling with crap - not as bad as > > on > > > The Hoarders, but very very close to the levels seen on the Brittish > > show. I > > > believe it would have been worse if my dad hadn't periodically thrown > > things > > > out and fought with her about it. It was bad enough that their weren't > > empty > > > chairs to sit on, doors wouldn't close because of crap, and if you > > openned > > > the kitchen cupboards, dishes would come flying out and hit you in the > > head. > > > It was a very hard home to live in. To this day I can't stand rugs in a > > home > > > because her unwashed rugs would wad up and block the doors from openning > > and > > > closing, making it hard if not impossible to get into and out of the > > house. > > > And did I mention she had 2 file cabinets next to her bed as well as > > stacks > > > and stacks of papers. She saved everything for her " jounrals. " I think > > she > > > believed someone would one day (probably me) would write a book about her > > > life using every scrap of paper that came her way. She also tended toward > > > animal hoarding, though that never got as severe as on the shows. The > > worst > > > was the cats- when I was little she sort of collected pregnant female > > stray > > > cats and then " gave " them to me so that they were my responsibility. At > > age > > > 6, 7, 8 and 9, I had as many as 10 cats at a time that were entirely my > > > responsibility. I could break out in a cold sweat just remembering the > > > stress. And they died. They died all the time, kitten birth > > complications, > > > hit by cars etc etc. UGHHHHH SHIVER!!! I'm an animal lover and it about > > > killed me to not be able to take care of them. But I was too small and > > there > > > were too many. And then she blamed me for it. I've never had a cat since > > > then. > > > > > > Another indication of hoarding - and I don't totaly get this one. After I > > > married (now divorced) and bought my own home, I wanted to go get my > > > belongings and clean out my room in her home. She Threw A Huge Fit!!! She > > > never let me in to get my stuff. Then she would bring me a few things at > > a > > > time out of my room (I had particularly wanted to get my childhood > > journals > > > and favorite toys and stuffed animals). She seemed to need too control > > which > > > things I could have, and when I could have them. I even went to her home > > a > > > few times to find girls a little younger than me wearing my clothes out > > of > > > my room!!!! Is that weird or what? Now I chalk it up to abandonment fears > > on > > > her part. And I dealt with it by turning my back and walking away on all > > the > > > people, posessions and everything else. > > > > > > I don't know what I'm asking for from you guys, I guess I just wanted to > > > share. It seems to me that the high functioning BPDs are perfectionists > > > about their homes, while the low functioning tend to hoard. I am not > > totally > > > sure, but I think my nada leaned very much toward the low functioning > > side. > > > She did do certain things - she held a job, she finished her BS degree > > (it > > > took 9 years for a 4 year degree), she played piano pretty well, but on > > the > > > other had she hardly got out of bed on Saturdays, it took her 2 hours to > > > complete a 15 min task, she couldn't make left hand turns in the car and > > she > > > never prepared a single meal after my 5th birthday etc etc etc. Anyone > > have > > > opinions on high or low functioning? > > > > > > XOXO thanks for letting me ramble, Girlscout > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Hi GS, I can relate to much of what you wrote because my mother is a hoarder too. She also took in too many cats and I was exposed to their deaths in a way that was traumatizing for me. To me there's two (at least) issues here regarding functioning. There's high-to-low functioning regarding the hoarding and there's high-to-low functioning regarding the BPD. These two do not have to be the same thing. My mother started out high functioning on the hoarding in her 40's - things were abnormal but not freakish but shifted to low functioning in her 60's and right now she's mid-level. Her BPD behaviors were the worst toward me as a child until I left home but she moderated some in the years since with very rare open anger displays. Still lots and lots of dysfunctional subtle passive-aggressive stuff though. But however low functioning your mother was with BPD, hoarding, and whatever else she may have it never EVER reflected on your value. I think people don't get involved even when they do see a problem because they lack courage, they lack conviction, and they lack strength. And it does take those things to step in and take action that could result in someone losing their child and I suspect a lot of reasonable nice people find those circumstances too extreme to cope in. And yeah, we're the ones who actually lived the extreme circumstances! But sadly most people want to stay comfortable and uninvolved and that sad state of affairs says everything about them, and *nothing* about us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Hi GS, I can relate to much of what you wrote because my mother is a hoarder too. She also took in too many cats and I was exposed to their deaths in a way that was traumatizing for me. To me there's two (at least) issues here regarding functioning. There's high-to-low functioning regarding the hoarding and there's high-to-low functioning regarding the BPD. These two do not have to be the same thing. My mother started out high functioning on the hoarding in her 40's - things were abnormal but not freakish but shifted to low functioning in her 60's and right now she's mid-level. Her BPD behaviors were the worst toward me as a child until I left home but she moderated some in the years since with very rare open anger displays. Still lots and lots of dysfunctional subtle passive-aggressive stuff though. But however low functioning your mother was with BPD, hoarding, and whatever else she may have it never EVER reflected on your value. I think people don't get involved even when they do see a problem because they lack courage, they lack conviction, and they lack strength. And it does take those things to step in and take action that could result in someone losing their child and I suspect a lot of reasonable nice people find those circumstances too extreme to cope in. And yeah, we're the ones who actually lived the extreme circumstances! But sadly most people want to stay comfortable and uninvolved and that sad state of affairs says everything about them, and *nothing* about us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 As infuriating as it is that everyone thinks I am nuts because my nada is high functioning, you get that infuriated that clearly nada wasn't high function (or just under the " red light flashing nutso " radar)and wasn't providing for you so why the hell didn't anyone come and rescue you from your hell of a life, ?yes? I baby sat for a small baby one summer as a teenager. Her brothers, age 7 and 9, were in and out of the house but were on their own. Mom was ok with that. The house was a disaster - dirty dishes, crap everywhere... But mom was a nurse and was sweet and loved her kids. I later found out mom had schizophrenia. Her then teenager daughter (the baby) had the Goth thing going on and was quiet but other than that seemed ok. But she stayed by her mom as if to take care of her. Other people at church would even commend her for helping her mom out. Reality is, she probably didn't have a childhood. Ok...so, rambling aside, maybe you appeared to be ok enough to other people that they left it alone instead of getting involved. I am going out on a limb here and maybe you did send out signals that everything wasn't ok but if you learned to take care of animals, feed and cloth yourself, probably clean and many other adult activities to survive, maybe your ability to handle it all was sadly what kept anyone from stepping in to rescue you. That is sad. You deserved to have a childhood and be protected instead of the other way around. {{{hugs for you and your lost childhood GS}}} peace patinage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I think you've hit on a key point, Doug. As children, we were basically *forbidden* to display or even consciously register any anger towards our mother. That would make us monsters. It was like an instant ticket to hell. How *dare* we show any disrespectful anger toward Our Own Mother...!?? Well, this deeply-rooted taboo has NEVER taken into account the mother who is mentally ill and abusive to her own child. The Mother as destroyer who cannibalizes her own children only appears in fairy tales as " the Wicked Stepmother " or " The Evil Queen. " The notion that a bio-mom can be actively hostile and dangerous to her own children is THAT disturbing to the collective unconscious, that an abusive bio-mom is almost universally transmuted into a *step* mother or into some kind of creature, Witch or monster in fairy tales. Bio-mom is sacred! This means that the children of mentally ill, abusive, but high-functioning mothers are basically screwed. When the child is subjected to covert emotional abuse, then, its only the child's word against his or her mother's word, and most people will take an adult's word over a child's. That's why its so important for the relatives of mentally ill individuals to take into account that abuse can be and often is covert. The types and degrees of abuse are lengthy and depressing to list here. There are many sources on the Internet listing the various forms that physical, emotional and sexual abuse, neglect, and exploitation can take. Relatives of the mentally ill/personality-disordered need to be on the alert for signs of abuse in the children of their mentally ill, alcoholic or drug-abusing family members. There are many sites on the Internet that describe the traits and behaviors of children who are being emotionally, physically or sexually abused, neglected or exploited. Be the compassionate adult you wished would come into your life, who would offer you kindness and empathy when you were a minor child or teen. If you have the stomach for it, you can hear a mom having a totally out-of-control rage-tantrum at her teenage son AND you can hear the dishrag dad enabling her, on YouTube. Its classic bpd hysteric rage behavior and classic enabling behavior. Its very, very, very triggering. This kind of screaming rage would culminate in physical abuse for me and my Sister, so I find it particularly triggering. I broke out in a cold sweat listening to it, and don't care to hear it again, myself. Be warned. -Annie > > > I was just the opposite: Filled with barely suppressed rage. She did > things that elicited anger, but I wasnt supposed to be angry at her, > cause she s THE MOTHER. But that anger goes somewhere, doesnt it? Let > it out, express it, or just let the ulcer bleed, the addiction grow, the > stress bind up the muscles. > > I wonder, how many of us were sick most of our lives, because we either > shut down the emotions, or felt them like a raging tiger wanting to get > out and devour some sumbitch, but pushed them down inside. > > I think we are 2 sides of the same coin. We didnt dare feel, or express > our true emotions. That would break eggshells. > > Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I think you've hit on a key point, Doug. As children, we were basically *forbidden* to display or even consciously register any anger towards our mother. That would make us monsters. It was like an instant ticket to hell. How *dare* we show any disrespectful anger toward Our Own Mother...!?? Well, this deeply-rooted taboo has NEVER taken into account the mother who is mentally ill and abusive to her own child. The Mother as destroyer who cannibalizes her own children only appears in fairy tales as " the Wicked Stepmother " or " The Evil Queen. " The notion that a bio-mom can be actively hostile and dangerous to her own children is THAT disturbing to the collective unconscious, that an abusive bio-mom is almost universally transmuted into a *step* mother or into some kind of creature, Witch or monster in fairy tales. Bio-mom is sacred! This means that the children of mentally ill, abusive, but high-functioning mothers are basically screwed. When the child is subjected to covert emotional abuse, then, its only the child's word against his or her mother's word, and most people will take an adult's word over a child's. That's why its so important for the relatives of mentally ill individuals to take into account that abuse can be and often is covert. The types and degrees of abuse are lengthy and depressing to list here. There are many sources on the Internet listing the various forms that physical, emotional and sexual abuse, neglect, and exploitation can take. Relatives of the mentally ill/personality-disordered need to be on the alert for signs of abuse in the children of their mentally ill, alcoholic or drug-abusing family members. There are many sites on the Internet that describe the traits and behaviors of children who are being emotionally, physically or sexually abused, neglected or exploited. Be the compassionate adult you wished would come into your life, who would offer you kindness and empathy when you were a minor child or teen. If you have the stomach for it, you can hear a mom having a totally out-of-control rage-tantrum at her teenage son AND you can hear the dishrag dad enabling her, on YouTube. Its classic bpd hysteric rage behavior and classic enabling behavior. Its very, very, very triggering. This kind of screaming rage would culminate in physical abuse for me and my Sister, so I find it particularly triggering. I broke out in a cold sweat listening to it, and don't care to hear it again, myself. Be warned. -Annie > > > I was just the opposite: Filled with barely suppressed rage. She did > things that elicited anger, but I wasnt supposed to be angry at her, > cause she s THE MOTHER. But that anger goes somewhere, doesnt it? Let > it out, express it, or just let the ulcer bleed, the addiction grow, the > stress bind up the muscles. > > I wonder, how many of us were sick most of our lives, because we either > shut down the emotions, or felt them like a raging tiger wanting to get > out and devour some sumbitch, but pushed them down inside. > > I think we are 2 sides of the same coin. We didnt dare feel, or express > our true emotions. That would break eggshells. > > Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I think you've hit on a key point, Doug. As children, we were basically *forbidden* to display or even consciously register any anger towards our mother. That would make us monsters. It was like an instant ticket to hell. How *dare* we show any disrespectful anger toward Our Own Mother...!?? Well, this deeply-rooted taboo has NEVER taken into account the mother who is mentally ill and abusive to her own child. The Mother as destroyer who cannibalizes her own children only appears in fairy tales as " the Wicked Stepmother " or " The Evil Queen. " The notion that a bio-mom can be actively hostile and dangerous to her own children is THAT disturbing to the collective unconscious, that an abusive bio-mom is almost universally transmuted into a *step* mother or into some kind of creature, Witch or monster in fairy tales. Bio-mom is sacred! This means that the children of mentally ill, abusive, but high-functioning mothers are basically screwed. When the child is subjected to covert emotional abuse, then, its only the child's word against his or her mother's word, and most people will take an adult's word over a child's. That's why its so important for the relatives of mentally ill individuals to take into account that abuse can be and often is covert. The types and degrees of abuse are lengthy and depressing to list here. There are many sources on the Internet listing the various forms that physical, emotional and sexual abuse, neglect, and exploitation can take. Relatives of the mentally ill/personality-disordered need to be on the alert for signs of abuse in the children of their mentally ill, alcoholic or drug-abusing family members. There are many sites on the Internet that describe the traits and behaviors of children who are being emotionally, physically or sexually abused, neglected or exploited. Be the compassionate adult you wished would come into your life, who would offer you kindness and empathy when you were a minor child or teen. If you have the stomach for it, you can hear a mom having a totally out-of-control rage-tantrum at her teenage son AND you can hear the dishrag dad enabling her, on YouTube. Its classic bpd hysteric rage behavior and classic enabling behavior. Its very, very, very triggering. This kind of screaming rage would culminate in physical abuse for me and my Sister, so I find it particularly triggering. I broke out in a cold sweat listening to it, and don't care to hear it again, myself. Be warned. -Annie > > > I was just the opposite: Filled with barely suppressed rage. She did > things that elicited anger, but I wasnt supposed to be angry at her, > cause she s THE MOTHER. But that anger goes somewhere, doesnt it? Let > it out, express it, or just let the ulcer bleed, the addiction grow, the > stress bind up the muscles. > > I wonder, how many of us were sick most of our lives, because we either > shut down the emotions, or felt them like a raging tiger wanting to get > out and devour some sumbitch, but pushed them down inside. > > I think we are 2 sides of the same coin. We didnt dare feel, or express > our true emotions. That would break eggshells. > > Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Ah! I didn't catch that part, that the enabling male voice was not the dad, but the current live-in boyfriend of the enraged, screaming nada. I don't want to listen to it again, so, I will trust your assessment. I think that we are in a truly miraculous new era RE the ability to record and share information via the Internet. When such abusive behaviors can be recorded and shared with millions of other people online, it sheds a new light and (hopefully) will give a new perspective to the general public RE what the children of the mentally ill have to endure, sometimes on a daily basis. Sometimes, several times a day. These out-of-control screaming rages are horrible enough for anyone to endure, but they can completely traumatize a small child, send them into shock and dissociation. Particularly when the screaming is accompanied by physical abuse. I was slapped around, shaken, hit and even beaten with a leather belt while being screamed at like that. I hope that such true-life recorded incidents will result in more compassion for the children of the mentally ill, and result in more children being rescued from such abuse. -Annie > > > Holy Christ. > > The guy was not dad, this was one of mom s latest boyfriends. And, I > might add, flying monkey. There is absolutely no excuse for her > behavior. Or his. If he were any kind of responsible adult, he would > have called the cops and had them take this boy to his father, or to > foster care. > > You guys don t help your mom out around here enough? Oh my. My nada > sent a flying monkey to toss that one at me once. This, from my mom, the > hoarder, whose every house since I had been born had been so filthy, > well just indescribable. > > In case any of you wonder, this is what the rages and out of control > emotional storms were like. Of course, this doesnt show the crying > jags, or the sympathy ploys, or the suicide games. But this was very > much, for me, a part of life with a BP mom. > > Brrr. > > > > > > > -Annie > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Ah! I didn't catch that part, that the enabling male voice was not the dad, but the current live-in boyfriend of the enraged, screaming nada. I don't want to listen to it again, so, I will trust your assessment. I think that we are in a truly miraculous new era RE the ability to record and share information via the Internet. When such abusive behaviors can be recorded and shared with millions of other people online, it sheds a new light and (hopefully) will give a new perspective to the general public RE what the children of the mentally ill have to endure, sometimes on a daily basis. Sometimes, several times a day. These out-of-control screaming rages are horrible enough for anyone to endure, but they can completely traumatize a small child, send them into shock and dissociation. Particularly when the screaming is accompanied by physical abuse. I was slapped around, shaken, hit and even beaten with a leather belt while being screamed at like that. I hope that such true-life recorded incidents will result in more compassion for the children of the mentally ill, and result in more children being rescued from such abuse. -Annie > > > Holy Christ. > > The guy was not dad, this was one of mom s latest boyfriends. And, I > might add, flying monkey. There is absolutely no excuse for her > behavior. Or his. If he were any kind of responsible adult, he would > have called the cops and had them take this boy to his father, or to > foster care. > > You guys don t help your mom out around here enough? Oh my. My nada > sent a flying monkey to toss that one at me once. This, from my mom, the > hoarder, whose every house since I had been born had been so filthy, > well just indescribable. > > In case any of you wonder, this is what the rages and out of control > emotional storms were like. Of course, this doesnt show the crying > jags, or the sympathy ploys, or the suicide games. But this was very > much, for me, a part of life with a BP mom. > > Brrr. > > > > > > > -Annie > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Wow, kinda wishing I hadn't watched that because it was a like an instant re-play of Christmas. Oh, different words and insults, but the same insane screaming with no rhyme or reason. And calm responses to her only made it worse. Wow. Just, wow. I wish I had had the forethought to record my nada's psychotic break. I even had my smartphone in my hand! Which reminds me, I just wanted to share this, but when I talked to the counselor today and told him about how nada behaved while I was growing up and the the incident at Christmas, he flat out said: at that point, she needed hospitalization. Of course, that's easy for me to say in hindsight, and you don't know what's going on, and you're probably scared stiff so you don't even want to move, but that would have been the best time to get her evaluated and get her help. " It was really nice to tell someone what was going on and be validated. I feel so bad for this kid. It's too bad he didn't call the police. He clearly knows she's behaving insane. But maybe he's just too scared or indifferent about it to call the police. And that stupid fada that says that shit to him. I have made amends with my father, I can only think of a couple of times when he did the flying monkey thing, but gosh does this video drudge up those few incidents and pick at those scabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Wow, kinda wishing I hadn't watched that because it was a like an instant re-play of Christmas. Oh, different words and insults, but the same insane screaming with no rhyme or reason. And calm responses to her only made it worse. Wow. Just, wow. I wish I had had the forethought to record my nada's psychotic break. I even had my smartphone in my hand! Which reminds me, I just wanted to share this, but when I talked to the counselor today and told him about how nada behaved while I was growing up and the the incident at Christmas, he flat out said: at that point, she needed hospitalization. Of course, that's easy for me to say in hindsight, and you don't know what's going on, and you're probably scared stiff so you don't even want to move, but that would have been the best time to get her evaluated and get her help. " It was really nice to tell someone what was going on and be validated. I feel so bad for this kid. It's too bad he didn't call the police. He clearly knows she's behaving insane. But maybe he's just too scared or indifferent about it to call the police. And that stupid fada that says that shit to him. I have made amends with my father, I can only think of a couple of times when he did the flying monkey thing, but gosh does this video drudge up those few incidents and pick at those scabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Yes, it's an acquired taste for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Yes, it's an acquired taste for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Sigh... I didn't know either. I just thought that if I was " better, smarter, thinner, more popular, never complained, never expressed a need/want that went counter to what she wanted, always flattered her, turned myself inside out.... " it would stop and mommy would be nice to me consistently. If I 'failed' at any of the above, I deserved what I got - snide, sould stripping remarks. So I learned to never fail. But when I did fail, I didn't know what to do... huge panic attacks, shut down, soul ripping self-torture - if Nada wasn't around to punish my failures as a human being, my God - I was gonna do it for her!!!! I've stopped doing that. If I fail at something... find the lesson and move on. I'm not defined by my failures or successes anymore - I'm defined by love and patience and understanding. WOW! Who knew? LYnnette > > Yep, I understand too and could have written what Lynnette wrote - same > thing, no anger. When I was discussing with my former T about a problem I > was having, she said something like " I think anyone who lived through the > type of abuse you did would feel that way " . I stopped and said, " I wasn't > abused " . She handled it perfectly... she didn't look at me funny or gasp or > anything, she just asked me what I thought abuse was. I went into detail > about some of the really awful horror stories you hear about parents locking > kids in closets and sexual abuse. She simply said something like, " You're > right, that is absolutely abuse. But not all abuse is that severe or > extreme. " She then gave me homework to learn more about abuse. It suddenly > started to hit me, I WAS abused. I absolutely think that I was minimizing > the situation. Absolutely yes. > > Mia > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Sigh... I didn't know either. I just thought that if I was " better, smarter, thinner, more popular, never complained, never expressed a need/want that went counter to what she wanted, always flattered her, turned myself inside out.... " it would stop and mommy would be nice to me consistently. If I 'failed' at any of the above, I deserved what I got - snide, sould stripping remarks. So I learned to never fail. But when I did fail, I didn't know what to do... huge panic attacks, shut down, soul ripping self-torture - if Nada wasn't around to punish my failures as a human being, my God - I was gonna do it for her!!!! I've stopped doing that. If I fail at something... find the lesson and move on. I'm not defined by my failures or successes anymore - I'm defined by love and patience and understanding. WOW! Who knew? LYnnette > > Yep, I understand too and could have written what Lynnette wrote - same > thing, no anger. When I was discussing with my former T about a problem I > was having, she said something like " I think anyone who lived through the > type of abuse you did would feel that way " . I stopped and said, " I wasn't > abused " . She handled it perfectly... she didn't look at me funny or gasp or > anything, she just asked me what I thought abuse was. I went into detail > about some of the really awful horror stories you hear about parents locking > kids in closets and sexual abuse. She simply said something like, " You're > right, that is absolutely abuse. But not all abuse is that severe or > extreme. " She then gave me homework to learn more about abuse. It suddenly > started to hit me, I WAS abused. I absolutely think that I was minimizing > the situation. Absolutely yes. > > Mia > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Wow, this was MORNING and she was able to go at it without taking a breath. My nada would need to have a few drinks mid-afternoon to let it fly like this. I felt horrible for the child, but did it also strike anyone else that his coping behaviors were baiting and denial? Makes you wonder how long they have been living in that dynamic. I was too cowed to push back at my nada like that until I was in my 30s and in therapy. I'm surprised she didn't stroke out. > > > > > > I was just the opposite: Filled with barely suppressed rage. She did > > things that elicited anger, but I wasnt supposed to be angry at her, > > cause she s THE MOTHER. But that anger goes somewhere, doesnt it? Let > > it out, express it, or just let the ulcer bleed, the addiction grow, the > > stress bind up the muscles. > > > > I wonder, how many of us were sick most of our lives, because we either > > shut down the emotions, or felt them like a raging tiger wanting to get > > out and devour some sumbitch, but pushed them down inside. > > > > I think we are 2 sides of the same coin. We didnt dare feel, or express > > our true emotions. That would break eggshells. > > > > Doug > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 A continuum of failure? YOU BET! Of course the BA 'work' has been interrupted by: men, drugs, pre-school teaching, 2 marriages/divorces, moving a lot, avoiding creditors, weight, snow, heat, physical stuff (real AND imagined) and ME.... Super! > > > > > > > > > > So my T pointed out to me a few days ago that when I first came to > > see > > > > her I > > > > > was seriously minimizing the abuse I suffered. She said that I would > > have > > > > > been removed from the home if the authorities had been aware. I doubt > > > > this > > > > > would ever happen, because the community I grew up in had blinders on > > , > > > > it > > > > > was literally known by the nickname " Happy Valley " and the residents > > > > heard > > > > > no evil, saw no evil, smelled no evil and tasted no evil, so long as > > the > > > > > evil people were " members " of the community. T and I talked about how > > the > > > > > world has changed to some degree since I was small, child abuse > > advocates > > > > > are more aggressive, teachers are subject to more stringent child > > > > protection > > > > > laws etc. Personally though, i think the community I am from still > > has > > > > their > > > > > blinders firmly in place. Evidence of this is the fact that my mother > > > > > teaches disabled children - I can't imagine a more frightening > > situation > > > > for > > > > > vulnerable tiny kids. wow > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, my point is that there is one more issue I have really > > minimized. > > > > > The hoarding. I thought my mother was a hoarder, but I wasn't sure > > how > > > > > severe. The thing is, when it is " normal " to you because it has > > always > > > > been > > > > > that way since you were born, it is hard to know what other people > > would > > > > > think is normal. So for research last night I watched a Brittish > > > > documentary > > > > > about hoarding as well as a couple of episodes of The Hoarders. > > > > > > > > > > The verdict --- yes my mother was a hoarder. She brought home piles > > of > > > > shit > > > > > from the thrift stores every weekend, spending her entire pay check > > on > > > > junk. > > > > > She didn't think she should have to share her income with her family > > and > > > > so > > > > > she didn't. She had serious debt problems because she couldn't > > control > > > > her > > > > > spending. Our house was filled floor to ceiling with crap - not as > > bad as > > > > on > > > > > The Hoarders, but very very close to the levels seen on the Brittish > > > > show. I > > > > > believe it would have been worse if my dad hadn't periodically thrown > > > > things > > > > > out and fought with her about it. It was bad enough that their > > weren't > > > > empty > > > > > chairs to sit on, doors wouldn't close because of crap, and if you > > > > openned > > > > > the kitchen cupboards, dishes would come flying out and hit you in > > the > > > > head. > > > > > It was a very hard home to live in. To this day I can't stand rugs in > > a > > > > home > > > > > because her unwashed rugs would wad up and block the doors from > > openning > > > > and > > > > > closing, making it hard if not impossible to get into and out of the > > > > house. > > > > > And did I mention she had 2 file cabinets next to her bed as well as > > > > stacks > > > > > and stacks of papers. She saved everything for her " jounrals. " I > > think > > > > she > > > > > believed someone would one day (probably me) would write a book about > > her > > > > > life using every scrap of paper that came her way. She also tended > > toward > > > > > animal hoarding, though that never got as severe as on the shows. The > > > > worst > > > > > was the cats- when I was little she sort of collected pregnant female > > > > stray > > > > > cats and then " gave " them to me so that they were my responsibility. > > At > > > > age > > > > > 6, 7, 8 and 9, I had as many as 10 cats at a time that were entirely > > my > > > > > responsibility. I could break out in a cold sweat just remembering > > the > > > > > stress. And they died. They died all the time, kitten birth > > > > complications, > > > > > hit by cars etc etc. UGHHHHH SHIVER!!! I'm an animal lover and it > > about > > > > > killed me to not be able to take care of them. But I was too small > > and > > > > there > > > > > were too many. And then she blamed me for it. I've never had a cat > > since > > > > > then. > > > > > > > > > > Another indication of hoarding - and I don't totaly get this one. > > After I > > > > > married (now divorced) and bought my own home, I wanted to go get my > > > > > belongings and clean out my room in her home. She Threw A Huge Fit!!! > > She > > > > > never let me in to get my stuff. Then she would bring me a few things > > at > > > > a > > > > > time out of my room (I had particularly wanted to get my childhood > > > > journals > > > > > and favorite toys and stuffed animals). She seemed to need too > > control > > > > which > > > > > things I could have, and when I could have them. I even went to her > > home > > > > a > > > > > few times to find girls a little younger than me wearing my clothes > > out > > > > of > > > > > my room!!!! Is that weird or what? Now I chalk it up to abandonment > > fears > > > > on > > > > > her part. And I dealt with it by turning my back and walking away on > > all > > > > the > > > > > people, posessions and everything else. > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what I'm asking for from you guys, I guess I just wanted > > to > > > > > share. It seems to me that the high functioning BPDs are > > perfectionists > > > > > about their homes, while the low functioning tend to hoard. I am not > > > > totally > > > > > sure, but I think my nada leaned very much toward the low functioning > > > > side. > > > > > She did do certain things - she held a job, she finished her BS > > degree > > > > (it > > > > > took 9 years for a 4 year degree), she played piano pretty well, but > > on > > > > the > > > > > other had she hardly got out of bed on Saturdays, it took her 2 hours > > to > > > > > complete a 15 min task, she couldn't make left hand turns in the car > > and > > > > she > > > > > never prepared a single meal after my 5th birthday etc etc etc. > > Anyone > > > > have > > > > > opinions on high or low functioning? > > > > > > > > > > XOXO thanks for letting me ramble, Girlscout > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 I WONT listen to it again. I lived it once. Once was enough. Very triggering. Very disturbing. Any wonder we become risk averse and conflict avoidant? > > Ah! I didn't catch that part, that the enabling male voice was not the dad, but the current live-in boyfriend of the enraged, screaming nada. I don't want to listen to it again, so, I will trust your assessment. > > I think that we are in a truly miraculous new era RE the ability to record and share information via the Internet. When such abusive behaviors can be recorded and shared with millions of other people online, it sheds a new light and (hopefully) will give a new perspective to the general public RE what the children of the mentally ill have to endure, sometimes on a daily basis. Sometimes, several times a day. > > These out-of-control screaming rages are horrible enough for anyone to endure, but they can completely traumatize a small child, send them into shock and dissociation. Particularly when the screaming is accompanied by physical abuse. I was slapped around, shaken, hit and even beaten with a leather belt while being screamed at like that. > > I hope that such true-life recorded incidents will result in more compassion for the children of the mentally ill, and result in more children being rescued from such abuse. > > -Annie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 I WONT listen to it again. I lived it once. Once was enough. Very triggering. Very disturbing. Any wonder we become risk averse and conflict avoidant? > > Ah! I didn't catch that part, that the enabling male voice was not the dad, but the current live-in boyfriend of the enraged, screaming nada. I don't want to listen to it again, so, I will trust your assessment. > > I think that we are in a truly miraculous new era RE the ability to record and share information via the Internet. When such abusive behaviors can be recorded and shared with millions of other people online, it sheds a new light and (hopefully) will give a new perspective to the general public RE what the children of the mentally ill have to endure, sometimes on a daily basis. Sometimes, several times a day. > > These out-of-control screaming rages are horrible enough for anyone to endure, but they can completely traumatize a small child, send them into shock and dissociation. Particularly when the screaming is accompanied by physical abuse. I was slapped around, shaken, hit and even beaten with a leather belt while being screamed at like that. > > I hope that such true-life recorded incidents will result in more compassion for the children of the mentally ill, and result in more children being rescued from such abuse. > > -Annie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 I WONT listen to it again. I lived it once. Once was enough. Very triggering. Very disturbing. Any wonder we become risk averse and conflict avoidant? > > Ah! I didn't catch that part, that the enabling male voice was not the dad, but the current live-in boyfriend of the enraged, screaming nada. I don't want to listen to it again, so, I will trust your assessment. > > I think that we are in a truly miraculous new era RE the ability to record and share information via the Internet. When such abusive behaviors can be recorded and shared with millions of other people online, it sheds a new light and (hopefully) will give a new perspective to the general public RE what the children of the mentally ill have to endure, sometimes on a daily basis. Sometimes, several times a day. > > These out-of-control screaming rages are horrible enough for anyone to endure, but they can completely traumatize a small child, send them into shock and dissociation. Particularly when the screaming is accompanied by physical abuse. I was slapped around, shaken, hit and even beaten with a leather belt while being screamed at like that. > > I hope that such true-life recorded incidents will result in more compassion for the children of the mentally ill, and result in more children being rescued from such abuse. > > -Annie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Oh yea, Mia. Just hit me. For Christ sake, hit me and be done with it. That will heal. Doug > > I hope that kid got out & went to live with his dad. At one point you hear > her screaming at him something about that & child support. That kid should > have called the cops, played that video as evidence. But, I'm sure they > wouldn't do squat because it's not physical abuse. > > When will people wake up & realize that sh** like that IS STILL ABUSE?? > > I've told people before, and I'll say it again and again: I'd take the > physical abuse any day over the verbal & emotional abuse. That did far more > damage to me. > > Mia > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Oh yea, Mia. Just hit me. For Christ sake, hit me and be done with it. That will heal. Doug > > I hope that kid got out & went to live with his dad. At one point you hear > her screaming at him something about that & child support. That kid should > have called the cops, played that video as evidence. But, I'm sure they > wouldn't do squat because it's not physical abuse. > > When will people wake up & realize that sh** like that IS STILL ABUSE?? > > I've told people before, and I'll say it again and again: I'd take the > physical abuse any day over the verbal & emotional abuse. That did far more > damage to me. > > Mia > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Oh yea, Mia. Just hit me. For Christ sake, hit me and be done with it. That will heal. Doug > > I hope that kid got out & went to live with his dad. At one point you hear > her screaming at him something about that & child support. That kid should > have called the cops, played that video as evidence. But, I'm sure they > wouldn't do squat because it's not physical abuse. > > When will people wake up & realize that sh** like that IS STILL ABUSE?? > > I've told people before, and I'll say it again and again: I'd take the > physical abuse any day over the verbal & emotional abuse. That did far more > damage to me. > > Mia > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 He was a little cocky. He was obviously not the " good child " who would do whatever it took to placate Nada. He needed a bit of correction about his attitude. THAT was not correction. I raised four kids, right thru the cocky, smart mouthed phase. And That is NOT how you discipline them. She was having a fight. You don t have a fight with your child. Except, nada s do, on a regular basis. I would love for CPS to see that video, along with the address. For those of you who have heard me in the past on my soapbox about what to do in re to kids being left with a BP, watch this video. Then, I repeat. Rescue them. Doug > > Wow, this was MORNING and she was able to go at it without taking a breath. My nada would need to have a few drinks mid-afternoon to let it fly like this. > > I felt horrible for the child, but did it also strike anyone else that his coping behaviors were baiting and denial? Makes you wonder how long they have been living in that dynamic. I was too cowed to push back at my nada like that until I was in my 30s and in therapy. I'm surprised she didn't stroke out. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 You've seen/heard that video. Now I want you to imagine that level of rage, that high-volume, shrieking, name-calling, vitriolic verbal abuse... directed at an 8-year-old. At a 4-year-old. At a 2-year-old. Imagine the mother looming over the small child, red-faced, spittle-flying, gripping the child hard by the upper arms to hold him or her close enough to feel mom's spittle hitting their face. Imagine being shaken, then slapped hard in the face because you're not looking into mommy's eyes as she's hating you and telling you you're a horrible, disgusting worthless piece of crap child. Being forced to look into her eyes as she's hating you is the worst part of it, and it goes on, and on. Imagine the level of terror mixed with deep shame the child is experiencing. This extreme, out-of-control-feeling kind of rage from a parent is trauma-inducing in a little child. Its like a terrorist attack; you're never sure you're even going to live through it. My little Sister told me that a couple of times when our nada started screaming at her like that when she was only 3 or so, Sister urinated on herself out of stark mindless terror, like a little animal. Of course, that just made nada more enraged. Then imagine afterward. The rage has past, the child is shaking and near shock from the episode. Then mommy bursts into tears and hysterically, pitiably begs the child to come to her, hug her, and tell her she is forgiven. Mommy is soooo, so sorry, and promises to never, never do that again. And the child has to pick herself up off the floor and go to mommy and hug her and say I love you mommy, even though the child knows that the promise means nothing. That promise has been made many times before. Or... Imagine mommy just kind of dusting her hands, straightening out her clothes, and humming a cheery tune as she walks away, leaving you on the floor, shaking and trying not to show how scared and bewildered you are, as you choke back your sobs and your own rage. THAT is what my little Sister and I had to endure, way too frequently. All that trauma, and no way to process it because we weren't allowed to speak of it. We had to pretend that it never happened. If we cried or acted upset, well, guess what? That could trigger yet another rage right then and there; start the whole damned thing all over again. THAT is the shocking reality that is emotional dysregulation and intense, inappropriate rage, and I hope that YouTube will continue to bring to the public's attention. I think technology is finally giving us a means to " out " covert parental and care-giver child abuse, no matter what causes it: personality disorder, alcoholism, drug abuse, whatever. The voiceless finally have a voice. - Annie > > > > I hope that kid got out & went to live with his dad. At one point you > hear > > her screaming at him something about that & child support. That kid > should > > have called the cops, played that video as evidence. But, I'm sure > they > > wouldn't do squat because it's not physical abuse. > > > > When will people wake up & realize that sh** like that IS STILL > ABUSE?? > > > > I've told people before, and I'll say it again and again: I'd take the > > physical abuse any day over the verbal & emotional abuse. That did > far more > > damage to me. > > > > Mia > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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