Guest guest Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Thanks for this. Fascinating. I'd love to hear more. I'm not particularly surprised that even though she knows she's BPD, she can't control her behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Thanks for this. Fascinating. I'd love to hear more. I'm not particularly surprised that even though she knows she's BPD, she can't control her behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Thanks for this. Fascinating. I'd love to hear more. I'm not particularly surprised that even though she knows she's BPD, she can't control her behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 That is fascinating! I think such bpds do exist, but are as rare as hen's teeth. Very, very rare. These individuals would probably be called " bpd lite " if there was such a rating; they experience some of the traits or behaviors but not all, or they experience them to a very, very mild degree. Or, perhaps such an individual only has a severe case of " fleas. " Its truly a conundrum because the very definition of " personality disorder " includes the concept that pd is " ego syntonic. " That means it is such an integral part of the individual's core being that they are not upset or distressed by their perception of reality or by their behaviors. How they behave and how they think seems quite natural, normal and acceptable to them: its everyone else who has a problem. So someone who IS upset by her behaviors, feels a sense of personal responsibility and accountability, and wishes to modify her behaviors because she perceives that they are abnormal, negative and destructive, and that she is hurting those around her (and herself) cannot *by definition* have a personality disorder! Anyway, I can understand how interesting that must have been for you. I hope you can keep us posted as to her progress, I think it would be educational for us if you could. -Annie > > As an informal pastor, I often get together with folks I meet at church to discuss life/spiritual issues. Last night, I met with a young lady who was experiencing some difficulties. I didn't know her well--we had only met 2 times. > > I asked her about her life story. In the middle of the story, she said " I struggle a lot, because I have a mental illness. It's not bi-polar, it's something called Borderline Personality Disorder . . . " > > ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? > > With great restraint, I didn't run from the table immediately and change my phone number. And I'm glad I didn't. > > Turns out, I found the holy grail. A BPD who acknowledges her illness and fully owns her behavior. Yeah. I know. > > She described her life from a BPD's perspective. It was amazing. She talked about how she gets triggered, and has about 30 seconds before she completely disassociates. Then, she " comes to " and looks around the room, checks out everyone's non-verbals and quickly pieces together what she did. (Reading non-verbals is a skill she does exceptionally well). > > She talked about how hard it is, because she alienates everyone and she is a very social person. She said " It's not their fault--I do these really crazy things and I'm not safe. " > > She talked about " hoovering " and how she intentionally escalates her behavior to hook people back in once she's alienated them. And it was interesting, because she described it as something like an addiction: " I don't want to do it, but I can't stop myself--it's like something else takes over, and I have to get them back. " > > As we talked about a major life decision she's trying to make, she said, several times, " I'm trying really hard to be in a grey area here. You know everything is so black and white and extreme--I have a hard time being balanced. " > > Of course, she admitted she's addicted to alcohol and engaging in some very self-destructive behavior. I stayed far away from that discussion. > > It was a conversation I thought I'd never have, and it was very surreal experience. Imagine . . .discussing BPD with a " recovering " BPD. I was even able to ask her some questions about my mother. i.e., what is it like when you do this? > > Good news: BPDs who acknowledge themselves as the problem do exist! > > Bad news: Even with all of her amazing self-awareness . . . none of the behaviors have changed. She's still getting fired wherever she goes, lies as easily as she breathes (since she creates her own reality on the spot) and is so destructive her family won't be around her. > > It's like a hope with no hope. > > Blessings, > Karla > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Karla, thanks for sharing this. I'm amazed that she can admit to being at fault that way. My impression is that getting them to accept treatment is much more likely if they're diagnosed while still young. I'd guess that being at an age when they can be forced into treatment by their parents helps and that catching it while they're young gives the therapy a better chance of helping because their brains aren't so set into the bad patterns yet. At 01:23 PM 01/22/2011 kyjohnson40days wrote: >As an informal pastor, I often get together with folks I meet >at church to discuss life/spiritual issues. Last night, I met >with a young lady who was experiencing some difficulties. I >didn't know her well--we had only met 2 times. > >I asked her about her life story. In the middle of the story, >she said " I struggle a lot, because I have a mental >illness. It's not bi-polar, it's something called Borderline >Personality Disorder . . . " > >ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? > >With great restraint, I didn't run from the table immediately >and change my phone number. And I'm glad I didn't. > >Turns out, I found the holy grail. A BPD who acknowledges her >illness and fully owns her behavior. Yeah. I know. > >She described her life from a BPD's perspective. It was >amazing. She talked about how she gets triggered, and has >about 30 seconds before she completely disassociates. Then, >she " comes to " and looks around the room, checks out everyone's >non-verbals and quickly pieces together what she did. (Reading >non-verbals is a skill she does exceptionally well). > >She talked about how hard it is, because she alienates everyone >and she is a very social person. She said " It's not their >fault--I do these really crazy things and I'm not safe. " > >She talked about " hoovering " and how she intentionally >escalates her behavior to hook people back in once she's >alienated them. And it was interesting, because she described >it as something like an addiction: " I don't want to do it, but >I can't stop myself--it's like something else takes over, and I >have to get them back. " > >As we talked about a major life decision she's trying to make, >she said, several times, " I'm trying really hard to be in a >grey area here. You know everything is so black and white and >extreme--I have a hard time being balanced. " > >Of course, she admitted she's addicted to alcohol and engaging >in some very self-destructive behavior. I stayed far away from >that discussion. > >It was a conversation I thought I'd never have, and it was very >surreal experience. Imagine . . .discussing BPD with a > " recovering " BPD. I was even able to ask her some questions >about my mother. i.e., what is it like when you do this? > >Good news: BPDs who acknowledge themselves as the problem do >exist! > >Bad news: Even with all of her amazing self-awareness . . . >none of the behaviors have changed. She's still getting fired >wherever she goes, lies as easily as she breathes (since she >creates her own reality on the spot) and is so destructive her >family won't be around her. > >It's like a hope with no hope. > >Blessings, >Karla -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Karla, thanks for sharing this. I'm amazed that she can admit to being at fault that way. My impression is that getting them to accept treatment is much more likely if they're diagnosed while still young. I'd guess that being at an age when they can be forced into treatment by their parents helps and that catching it while they're young gives the therapy a better chance of helping because their brains aren't so set into the bad patterns yet. At 01:23 PM 01/22/2011 kyjohnson40days wrote: >As an informal pastor, I often get together with folks I meet >at church to discuss life/spiritual issues. Last night, I met >with a young lady who was experiencing some difficulties. I >didn't know her well--we had only met 2 times. > >I asked her about her life story. In the middle of the story, >she said " I struggle a lot, because I have a mental >illness. It's not bi-polar, it's something called Borderline >Personality Disorder . . . " > >ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? > >With great restraint, I didn't run from the table immediately >and change my phone number. And I'm glad I didn't. > >Turns out, I found the holy grail. A BPD who acknowledges her >illness and fully owns her behavior. Yeah. I know. > >She described her life from a BPD's perspective. It was >amazing. She talked about how she gets triggered, and has >about 30 seconds before she completely disassociates. Then, >she " comes to " and looks around the room, checks out everyone's >non-verbals and quickly pieces together what she did. (Reading >non-verbals is a skill she does exceptionally well). > >She talked about how hard it is, because she alienates everyone >and she is a very social person. She said " It's not their >fault--I do these really crazy things and I'm not safe. " > >She talked about " hoovering " and how she intentionally >escalates her behavior to hook people back in once she's >alienated them. And it was interesting, because she described >it as something like an addiction: " I don't want to do it, but >I can't stop myself--it's like something else takes over, and I >have to get them back. " > >As we talked about a major life decision she's trying to make, >she said, several times, " I'm trying really hard to be in a >grey area here. You know everything is so black and white and >extreme--I have a hard time being balanced. " > >Of course, she admitted she's addicted to alcohol and engaging >in some very self-destructive behavior. I stayed far away from >that discussion. > >It was a conversation I thought I'd never have, and it was very >surreal experience. Imagine . . .discussing BPD with a > " recovering " BPD. I was even able to ask her some questions >about my mother. i.e., what is it like when you do this? > >Good news: BPDs who acknowledge themselves as the problem do >exist! > >Bad news: Even with all of her amazing self-awareness . . . >none of the behaviors have changed. She's still getting fired >wherever she goes, lies as easily as she breathes (since she >creates her own reality on the spot) and is so destructive her >family won't be around her. > >It's like a hope with no hope. > >Blessings, >Karla -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Karla, thanks for sharing this. I'm amazed that she can admit to being at fault that way. My impression is that getting them to accept treatment is much more likely if they're diagnosed while still young. I'd guess that being at an age when they can be forced into treatment by their parents helps and that catching it while they're young gives the therapy a better chance of helping because their brains aren't so set into the bad patterns yet. At 01:23 PM 01/22/2011 kyjohnson40days wrote: >As an informal pastor, I often get together with folks I meet >at church to discuss life/spiritual issues. Last night, I met >with a young lady who was experiencing some difficulties. I >didn't know her well--we had only met 2 times. > >I asked her about her life story. In the middle of the story, >she said " I struggle a lot, because I have a mental >illness. It's not bi-polar, it's something called Borderline >Personality Disorder . . . " > >ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? > >With great restraint, I didn't run from the table immediately >and change my phone number. And I'm glad I didn't. > >Turns out, I found the holy grail. A BPD who acknowledges her >illness and fully owns her behavior. Yeah. I know. > >She described her life from a BPD's perspective. It was >amazing. She talked about how she gets triggered, and has >about 30 seconds before she completely disassociates. Then, >she " comes to " and looks around the room, checks out everyone's >non-verbals and quickly pieces together what she did. (Reading >non-verbals is a skill she does exceptionally well). > >She talked about how hard it is, because she alienates everyone >and she is a very social person. She said " It's not their >fault--I do these really crazy things and I'm not safe. " > >She talked about " hoovering " and how she intentionally >escalates her behavior to hook people back in once she's >alienated them. And it was interesting, because she described >it as something like an addiction: " I don't want to do it, but >I can't stop myself--it's like something else takes over, and I >have to get them back. " > >As we talked about a major life decision she's trying to make, >she said, several times, " I'm trying really hard to be in a >grey area here. You know everything is so black and white and >extreme--I have a hard time being balanced. " > >Of course, she admitted she's addicted to alcohol and engaging >in some very self-destructive behavior. I stayed far away from >that discussion. > >It was a conversation I thought I'd never have, and it was very >surreal experience. Imagine . . .discussing BPD with a > " recovering " BPD. I was even able to ask her some questions >about my mother. i.e., what is it like when you do this? > >Good news: BPDs who acknowledge themselves as the problem do >exist! > >Bad news: Even with all of her amazing self-awareness . . . >none of the behaviors have changed. She's still getting fired >wherever she goes, lies as easily as she breathes (since she >creates her own reality on the spot) and is so destructive her >family won't be around her. > >It's like a hope with no hope. > >Blessings, >Karla -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 It seems to me that overcoming BPD requires the help of your family, if you are the one with it. What she describes as occurring when she is triggered, it seems to me that if there were people in her life who were willing to help her, that she could progress. It's really hard to beat something like an addiction without a support system. My heart really goes out to her. ly, if my mother could acknowledge her problem and seek therapy, it would go a long way towards healing my relationship with her. I'm perfectly willing to be there for someone who WANTS help, but if not, I have to take care of myself. I wonder how long she has been in treatment? I understand that treatment does take a long time to start to show results. The fact that she is aware, IMHO, is really important and a sign of progress. I wonder what happens if you have BPD, and you get a job, and then you discuss with your employer that, not that you have BPD, but you have certain triggers that create certain responses, and in the instance that one of those triggers occur, you would need to excuse yourself for a few moments. I know, having had a similar conversation with my own boss about my anxiety, that she was very understanding. But I have also been at my job for 4 years, and I am a proven fundraiser so I have some seniority that allows me the comfort of saying that. Our employers and health care need to provide more options for people with mental illnesses/disorders. It's so sad that with help, so many people could resolve so many issues that in turn have an effect on their weight, their lifestyles, their productivity, their careers... Thank you for sharing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 It seems to me that overcoming BPD requires the help of your family, if you are the one with it. What she describes as occurring when she is triggered, it seems to me that if there were people in her life who were willing to help her, that she could progress. It's really hard to beat something like an addiction without a support system. My heart really goes out to her. ly, if my mother could acknowledge her problem and seek therapy, it would go a long way towards healing my relationship with her. I'm perfectly willing to be there for someone who WANTS help, but if not, I have to take care of myself. I wonder how long she has been in treatment? I understand that treatment does take a long time to start to show results. The fact that she is aware, IMHO, is really important and a sign of progress. I wonder what happens if you have BPD, and you get a job, and then you discuss with your employer that, not that you have BPD, but you have certain triggers that create certain responses, and in the instance that one of those triggers occur, you would need to excuse yourself for a few moments. I know, having had a similar conversation with my own boss about my anxiety, that she was very understanding. But I have also been at my job for 4 years, and I am a proven fundraiser so I have some seniority that allows me the comfort of saying that. Our employers and health care need to provide more options for people with mental illnesses/disorders. It's so sad that with help, so many people could resolve so many issues that in turn have an effect on their weight, their lifestyles, their productivity, their careers... Thank you for sharing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Yes, Annie--I wondered about that, too. That's one of the reasons this was so strange. I asked her when she was diagnosed, because I was also questioning if she was real. She was diagnosed at 16 and also in her early 20s. And I can tell you, she's the real deal--destructive, no sense of self, black and white thinking, identity issues, extreme behavior, addiction, hoovering, terrified of abandonment, cognitive distortions, you name it! That's one of the reasons I was blown away. Even as she was able to speak to me with coherence and insight, the details of her story screamed BPD!!! She was clearly " cleaning it up " for a stranger. And she has " recovered " to the point where she knows she's sick and she knows she's destructive. Maybe that's one of the reasons it was so surreal. Acknowledging her behavior and owning her diagnosis didn't change anything--she is still a trainwreck. Knowing about her illness doesn't give her the power to stop it from day-to-day. It is (like Randi Kreger says) a slow recovery process that takes intense therapy for YEARS. I truly saw the " mental illness " portion of the whole thing. She said the book " Get me Out of Here " was dead-on right: as she does these things, she can't stop herself. She often will black out. NOT THAT THIS IS AN EXCUSE!!! But it was fascinating to see how she really works hard to remain normal and still can't control her own behavior. I struggled to not resent her. I wanted to take out all of my frustration on her and punish her for being BPD. Thankfully, I just listened. It really shook up my assumptions. I always assumed (from my little girl desperation place) that getting nada to see her illness would change the behavior. Nope. She really is ill. Again--no excuses here. And I'm certainly not signing myself up to be her next victim. But what a difference in perspective for me. Also, I thought of you during the conversation, Annie. At one point she mentioned in passing: " I don't know if I'll ever had kids, but if I do . . . " YIKES!!! Blessings, Karla > > > > As an informal pastor, I often get together with folks I meet at church to discuss life/spiritual issues. Last night, I met with a young lady who was experiencing some difficulties. I didn't know her well--we had only met 2 times. > > > > I asked her about her life story. In the middle of the story, she said " I struggle a lot, because I have a mental illness. It's not bi-polar, it's something called Borderline Personality Disorder . . . " > > > > ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? > > > > With great restraint, I didn't run from the table immediately and change my phone number. And I'm glad I didn't. > > > > Turns out, I found the holy grail. A BPD who acknowledges her illness and fully owns her behavior. Yeah. I know. > > > > She described her life from a BPD's perspective. It was amazing. She talked about how she gets triggered, and has about 30 seconds before she completely disassociates. Then, she " comes to " and looks around the room, checks out everyone's non-verbals and quickly pieces together what she did. (Reading non-verbals is a skill she does exceptionally well). > > > > She talked about how hard it is, because she alienates everyone and she is a very social person. She said " It's not their fault--I do these really crazy things and I'm not safe. " > > > > She talked about " hoovering " and how she intentionally escalates her behavior to hook people back in once she's alienated them. And it was interesting, because she described it as something like an addiction: " I don't want to do it, but I can't stop myself--it's like something else takes over, and I have to get them back. " > > > > As we talked about a major life decision she's trying to make, she said, several times, " I'm trying really hard to be in a grey area here. You know everything is so black and white and extreme--I have a hard time being balanced. " > > > > Of course, she admitted she's addicted to alcohol and engaging in some very self-destructive behavior. I stayed far away from that discussion. > > > > It was a conversation I thought I'd never have, and it was very surreal experience. Imagine . . .discussing BPD with a " recovering " BPD. I was even able to ask her some questions about my mother. i.e., what is it like when you do this? > > > > Good news: BPDs who acknowledge themselves as the problem do exist! > > > > Bad news: Even with all of her amazing self-awareness . . . none of the behaviors have changed. She's still getting fired wherever she goes, lies as easily as she breathes (since she creates her own reality on the spot) and is so destructive her family won't be around her. > > > > It's like a hope with no hope. > > > > Blessings, > > Karla > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Thanks for sharing that, Katrina-- Obviously, I asked her a lot of questions about her " recovery " process. She credited a therapist who stuck with her for three years. It took intense therapy several times a week for her to get to where she is. (Self-aware, with all of the symptoms). She started very young. > >As an informal pastor, I often get together with folks I meet > >at church to discuss life/spiritual issues. Last night, I met > >with a young lady who was experiencing some difficulties. I > >didn't know her well--we had only met 2 times. > > > >I asked her about her life story. In the middle of the story, > >she said " I struggle a lot, because I have a mental > >illness. It's not bi-polar, it's something called Borderline > >Personality Disorder . . . " > > > >ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? > > > >With great restraint, I didn't run from the table immediately > >and change my phone number. And I'm glad I didn't. > > > >Turns out, I found the holy grail. A BPD who acknowledges her > >illness and fully owns her behavior. Yeah. I know. > > > >She described her life from a BPD's perspective. It was > >amazing. She talked about how she gets triggered, and has > >about 30 seconds before she completely disassociates. Then, > >she " comes to " and looks around the room, checks out everyone's > >non-verbals and quickly pieces together what she did. (Reading > >non-verbals is a skill she does exceptionally well). > > > >She talked about how hard it is, because she alienates everyone > >and she is a very social person. She said " It's not their > >fault--I do these really crazy things and I'm not safe. " > > > >She talked about " hoovering " and how she intentionally > >escalates her behavior to hook people back in once she's > >alienated them. And it was interesting, because she described > >it as something like an addiction: " I don't want to do it, but > >I can't stop myself--it's like something else takes over, and I > >have to get them back. " > > > >As we talked about a major life decision she's trying to make, > >she said, several times, " I'm trying really hard to be in a > >grey area here. You know everything is so black and white and > >extreme--I have a hard time being balanced. " > > > >Of course, she admitted she's addicted to alcohol and engaging > >in some very self-destructive behavior. I stayed far away from > >that discussion. > > > >It was a conversation I thought I'd never have, and it was very > >surreal experience. Imagine . . .discussing BPD with a > > " recovering " BPD. I was even able to ask her some questions > >about my mother. i.e., what is it like when you do this? > > > >Good news: BPDs who acknowledge themselves as the problem do > >exist! > > > >Bad news: Even with all of her amazing self-awareness . . . > >none of the behaviors have changed. She's still getting fired > >wherever she goes, lies as easily as she breathes (since she > >creates her own reality on the spot) and is so destructive her > >family won't be around her. > > > >It's like a hope with no hope. > > > >Blessings, > >Karla > > -- > Katrina > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 How true! I only wish she were " lite " though. She was only " lite " because I was a stranger and it was less than 2 hours. Given her story, I wouldn't be surprised if her family members were on some of the other boards here! > > > >As an informal pastor, I often get together with folks I meet > > > >at church to discuss life/spiritual issues. Last night, I met > > > >with a young lady who was experiencing some difficulties. I > > > >didn't know her well--we had only met 2 times. > > > > > > > >I asked her about her life story. In the middle of the story, > > > >she said " I struggle a lot, because I have a mental > > > >illness. It's not bi-polar, it's something called Borderline > > > >Personality Disorder . . . " > > > > > > > >ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? > > > > > > > >With great restraint, I didn't run from the table immediately > > > >and change my phone number. And I'm glad I didn't. > > > > > > > >Turns out, I found the holy grail. A BPD who acknowledges her > > > >illness and fully owns her behavior. Yeah. I know. > > > > > > > >She described her life from a BPD's perspective. It was > > > >amazing. She talked about how she gets triggered, and has > > > >about 30 seconds before she completely disassociates. Then, > > > >she " comes to " and looks around the room, checks out everyone's > > > >non-verbals and quickly pieces together what she did. (Reading > > > >non-verbals is a skill she does exceptionally well). > > > > > > > >She talked about how hard it is, because she alienates everyone > > > >and she is a very social person. She said " It's not their > > > >fault--I do these really crazy things and I'm not safe. " > > > > > > > >She talked about " hoovering " and how she intentionally > > > >escalates her behavior to hook people back in once she's > > > >alienated them. And it was interesting, because she described > > > >it as something like an addiction: " I don't want to do it, but > > > >I can't stop myself--it's like something else takes over, and I > > > >have to get them back. " > > > > > > > >As we talked about a major life decision she's trying to make, > > > >she said, several times, " I'm trying really hard to be in a > > > >grey area here. You know everything is so black and white and > > > >extreme--I have a hard time being balanced. " > > > > > > > >Of course, she admitted she's addicted to alcohol and engaging > > > >in some very self-destructive behavior. I stayed far away from > > > >that discussion. > > > > > > > >It was a conversation I thought I'd never have, and it was very > > > >surreal experience. Imagine . . .discussing BPD with a > > > > " recovering " BPD. I was even able to ask her some questions > > > >about my mother. i.e., what is it like when you do this? > > > > > > > >Good news: BPDs who acknowledge themselves as the problem do > > > >exist! > > > > > > > >Bad news: Even with all of her amazing self-awareness . . . > > > >none of the behaviors have changed. She's still getting fired > > > >wherever she goes, lies as easily as she breathes (since she > > > >creates her own reality on the spot) and is so destructive her > > > >family won't be around her. > > > > > > > >It's like a hope with no hope. > > > > > > > >Blessings, > > > >Karla > > > > > > -- > > > Katrina > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 How true! I only wish she were " lite " though. She was only " lite " because I was a stranger and it was less than 2 hours. Given her story, I wouldn't be surprised if her family members were on some of the other boards here! > > > >As an informal pastor, I often get together with folks I meet > > > >at church to discuss life/spiritual issues. Last night, I met > > > >with a young lady who was experiencing some difficulties. I > > > >didn't know her well--we had only met 2 times. > > > > > > > >I asked her about her life story. In the middle of the story, > > > >she said " I struggle a lot, because I have a mental > > > >illness. It's not bi-polar, it's something called Borderline > > > >Personality Disorder . . . " > > > > > > > >ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? > > > > > > > >With great restraint, I didn't run from the table immediately > > > >and change my phone number. And I'm glad I didn't. > > > > > > > >Turns out, I found the holy grail. A BPD who acknowledges her > > > >illness and fully owns her behavior. Yeah. I know. > > > > > > > >She described her life from a BPD's perspective. It was > > > >amazing. She talked about how she gets triggered, and has > > > >about 30 seconds before she completely disassociates. Then, > > > >she " comes to " and looks around the room, checks out everyone's > > > >non-verbals and quickly pieces together what she did. (Reading > > > >non-verbals is a skill she does exceptionally well). > > > > > > > >She talked about how hard it is, because she alienates everyone > > > >and she is a very social person. She said " It's not their > > > >fault--I do these really crazy things and I'm not safe. " > > > > > > > >She talked about " hoovering " and how she intentionally > > > >escalates her behavior to hook people back in once she's > > > >alienated them. And it was interesting, because she described > > > >it as something like an addiction: " I don't want to do it, but > > > >I can't stop myself--it's like something else takes over, and I > > > >have to get them back. " > > > > > > > >As we talked about a major life decision she's trying to make, > > > >she said, several times, " I'm trying really hard to be in a > > > >grey area here. You know everything is so black and white and > > > >extreme--I have a hard time being balanced. " > > > > > > > >Of course, she admitted she's addicted to alcohol and engaging > > > >in some very self-destructive behavior. I stayed far away from > > > >that discussion. > > > > > > > >It was a conversation I thought I'd never have, and it was very > > > >surreal experience. Imagine . . .discussing BPD with a > > > > " recovering " BPD. I was even able to ask her some questions > > > >about my mother. i.e., what is it like when you do this? > > > > > > > >Good news: BPDs who acknowledge themselves as the problem do > > > >exist! > > > > > > > >Bad news: Even with all of her amazing self-awareness . . . > > > >none of the behaviors have changed. She's still getting fired > > > >wherever she goes, lies as easily as she breathes (since she > > > >creates her own reality on the spot) and is so destructive her > > > >family won't be around her. > > > > > > > >It's like a hope with no hope. > > > > > > > >Blessings, > > > >Karla > > > > > > -- > > > Katrina > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 How true! I only wish she were " lite " though. She was only " lite " because I was a stranger and it was less than 2 hours. Given her story, I wouldn't be surprised if her family members were on some of the other boards here! > > > >As an informal pastor, I often get together with folks I meet > > > >at church to discuss life/spiritual issues. Last night, I met > > > >with a young lady who was experiencing some difficulties. I > > > >didn't know her well--we had only met 2 times. > > > > > > > >I asked her about her life story. In the middle of the story, > > > >she said " I struggle a lot, because I have a mental > > > >illness. It's not bi-polar, it's something called Borderline > > > >Personality Disorder . . . " > > > > > > > >ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? > > > > > > > >With great restraint, I didn't run from the table immediately > > > >and change my phone number. And I'm glad I didn't. > > > > > > > >Turns out, I found the holy grail. A BPD who acknowledges her > > > >illness and fully owns her behavior. Yeah. I know. > > > > > > > >She described her life from a BPD's perspective. It was > > > >amazing. She talked about how she gets triggered, and has > > > >about 30 seconds before she completely disassociates. Then, > > > >she " comes to " and looks around the room, checks out everyone's > > > >non-verbals and quickly pieces together what she did. (Reading > > > >non-verbals is a skill she does exceptionally well). > > > > > > > >She talked about how hard it is, because she alienates everyone > > > >and she is a very social person. She said " It's not their > > > >fault--I do these really crazy things and I'm not safe. " > > > > > > > >She talked about " hoovering " and how she intentionally > > > >escalates her behavior to hook people back in once she's > > > >alienated them. And it was interesting, because she described > > > >it as something like an addiction: " I don't want to do it, but > > > >I can't stop myself--it's like something else takes over, and I > > > >have to get them back. " > > > > > > > >As we talked about a major life decision she's trying to make, > > > >she said, several times, " I'm trying really hard to be in a > > > >grey area here. You know everything is so black and white and > > > >extreme--I have a hard time being balanced. " > > > > > > > >Of course, she admitted she's addicted to alcohol and engaging > > > >in some very self-destructive behavior. I stayed far away from > > > >that discussion. > > > > > > > >It was a conversation I thought I'd never have, and it was very > > > >surreal experience. Imagine . . .discussing BPD with a > > > > " recovering " BPD. I was even able to ask her some questions > > > >about my mother. i.e., what is it like when you do this? > > > > > > > >Good news: BPDs who acknowledge themselves as the problem do > > > >exist! > > > > > > > >Bad news: Even with all of her amazing self-awareness . . . > > > >none of the behaviors have changed. She's still getting fired > > > >wherever she goes, lies as easily as she breathes (since she > > > >creates her own reality on the spot) and is so destructive her > > > >family won't be around her. > > > > > > > >It's like a hope with no hope. > > > > > > > >Blessings, > > > >Karla > > > > > > -- > > > Katrina > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Wow,Karla,that was some dinner! Thank you so much for sharing this--what this BPD young lady said about " hoovering " is pretty much *exactly* what my nada said about her suicide " attempts " .Major ah ha there for me because I've suspected for years that it was manipulation but,you know,it's hard to just accept that at face value--if I said I was going to kill myself it would be because I actually wanted to die,not to hook back in someone I had alienated...like the opposite of escalating; in fact winding it all down to absolute zero. But wow,that's exactly what nada always was doing when she went into one of her " suicidal " moods: she was escalating.It always *felt* like that to me,too.Mainly she reserved her " suicide " threats for fada and in all my conscious memories of these episodes she threatened to kill herself with her car.She'd start some kind of argument with him and go farther and farther into hysterics until she was running out the door screaming she was going to go crash the car. When I was little he always ran after her and wrestled her back into the house but by the time I was a teenager he just let her go.I remember one time when I was about fourteen she tore off in her car and I wondered if she was going to ever come back or wind up dead or cause an accident.My brother was sobbing and fada was just sitting on the living room sofa seething. She did come back in one piece some time later and I overhead her and fada talking in the kitchen.He was asking her, " Why? Why do you do this? " And she said, " Something just comes over me and I can't stop it... " I was so disgusted with that I went to my room and closed the door.It sounded like she was just making up an excuse,to me.And every time she pulled that " suicide " crap it was like she wanted to make fada pay for not reacting to her fit she way she wanted him to. Out of the mouth of a BPD: " I have to get them back. " Wow.That really is what nada was doing... > > As an informal pastor, I often get together with folks I meet at church to discuss life/spiritual issues. Last night, I met with a young lady who was experiencing some difficulties. I didn't know her well--we had only met 2 times. > > I asked her about her life story. In the middle of the story, she said " I struggle a lot, because I have a mental illness. It's not bi-polar, it's something called Borderline Personality Disorder . . . " > > ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? > > With great restraint, I didn't run from the table immediately and change my phone number. And I'm glad I didn't. > > Turns out, I found the holy grail. A BPD who acknowledges her illness and fully owns her behavior. Yeah. I know. > > She described her life from a BPD's perspective. It was amazing. She talked about how she gets triggered, and has about 30 seconds before she completely disassociates. Then, she " comes to " and looks around the room, checks out everyone's non-verbals and quickly pieces together what she did. (Reading non-verbals is a skill she does exceptionally well). > > She talked about how hard it is, because she alienates everyone and she is a very social person. She said " It's not their fault--I do these really crazy things and I'm not safe. " > > She talked about " hoovering " and how she intentionally escalates her behavior to hook people back in once she's alienated them. And it was interesting, because she described it as something like an addiction: " I don't want to do it, but I can't stop myself--it's like something else takes over, and I have to get them back. " > > As we talked about a major life decision she's trying to make, she said, several times, " I'm trying really hard to be in a grey area here. You know everything is so black and white and extreme--I have a hard time being balanced. " > > Of course, she admitted she's addicted to alcohol and engaging in some very self-destructive behavior. I stayed far away from that discussion. > > It was a conversation I thought I'd never have, and it was very surreal experience. Imagine . . .discussing BPD with a " recovering " BPD. I was even able to ask her some questions about my mother. i.e., what is it like when you do this? > > Good news: BPDs who acknowledge themselves as the problem do exist! > > Bad news: Even with all of her amazing self-awareness . . . none of the behaviors have changed. She's still getting fired wherever she goes, lies as easily as she breathes (since she creates her own reality on the spot) and is so destructive her family won't be around her. > > It's like a hope with no hope. > > Blessings, > Karla > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Wow,Karla,that was some dinner! Thank you so much for sharing this--what this BPD young lady said about " hoovering " is pretty much *exactly* what my nada said about her suicide " attempts " .Major ah ha there for me because I've suspected for years that it was manipulation but,you know,it's hard to just accept that at face value--if I said I was going to kill myself it would be because I actually wanted to die,not to hook back in someone I had alienated...like the opposite of escalating; in fact winding it all down to absolute zero. But wow,that's exactly what nada always was doing when she went into one of her " suicidal " moods: she was escalating.It always *felt* like that to me,too.Mainly she reserved her " suicide " threats for fada and in all my conscious memories of these episodes she threatened to kill herself with her car.She'd start some kind of argument with him and go farther and farther into hysterics until she was running out the door screaming she was going to go crash the car. When I was little he always ran after her and wrestled her back into the house but by the time I was a teenager he just let her go.I remember one time when I was about fourteen she tore off in her car and I wondered if she was going to ever come back or wind up dead or cause an accident.My brother was sobbing and fada was just sitting on the living room sofa seething. She did come back in one piece some time later and I overhead her and fada talking in the kitchen.He was asking her, " Why? Why do you do this? " And she said, " Something just comes over me and I can't stop it... " I was so disgusted with that I went to my room and closed the door.It sounded like she was just making up an excuse,to me.And every time she pulled that " suicide " crap it was like she wanted to make fada pay for not reacting to her fit she way she wanted him to. Out of the mouth of a BPD: " I have to get them back. " Wow.That really is what nada was doing... > > As an informal pastor, I often get together with folks I meet at church to discuss life/spiritual issues. Last night, I met with a young lady who was experiencing some difficulties. I didn't know her well--we had only met 2 times. > > I asked her about her life story. In the middle of the story, she said " I struggle a lot, because I have a mental illness. It's not bi-polar, it's something called Borderline Personality Disorder . . . " > > ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? > > With great restraint, I didn't run from the table immediately and change my phone number. And I'm glad I didn't. > > Turns out, I found the holy grail. A BPD who acknowledges her illness and fully owns her behavior. Yeah. I know. > > She described her life from a BPD's perspective. It was amazing. She talked about how she gets triggered, and has about 30 seconds before she completely disassociates. Then, she " comes to " and looks around the room, checks out everyone's non-verbals and quickly pieces together what she did. (Reading non-verbals is a skill she does exceptionally well). > > She talked about how hard it is, because she alienates everyone and she is a very social person. She said " It's not their fault--I do these really crazy things and I'm not safe. " > > She talked about " hoovering " and how she intentionally escalates her behavior to hook people back in once she's alienated them. And it was interesting, because she described it as something like an addiction: " I don't want to do it, but I can't stop myself--it's like something else takes over, and I have to get them back. " > > As we talked about a major life decision she's trying to make, she said, several times, " I'm trying really hard to be in a grey area here. You know everything is so black and white and extreme--I have a hard time being balanced. " > > Of course, she admitted she's addicted to alcohol and engaging in some very self-destructive behavior. I stayed far away from that discussion. > > It was a conversation I thought I'd never have, and it was very surreal experience. Imagine . . .discussing BPD with a " recovering " BPD. I was even able to ask her some questions about my mother. i.e., what is it like when you do this? > > Good news: BPDs who acknowledge themselves as the problem do exist! > > Bad news: Even with all of her amazing self-awareness . . . none of the behaviors have changed. She's still getting fired wherever she goes, lies as easily as she breathes (since she creates her own reality on the spot) and is so destructive her family won't be around her. > > It's like a hope with no hope. > > Blessings, > Karla > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Wow,Karla,that was some dinner! Thank you so much for sharing this--what this BPD young lady said about " hoovering " is pretty much *exactly* what my nada said about her suicide " attempts " .Major ah ha there for me because I've suspected for years that it was manipulation but,you know,it's hard to just accept that at face value--if I said I was going to kill myself it would be because I actually wanted to die,not to hook back in someone I had alienated...like the opposite of escalating; in fact winding it all down to absolute zero. But wow,that's exactly what nada always was doing when she went into one of her " suicidal " moods: she was escalating.It always *felt* like that to me,too.Mainly she reserved her " suicide " threats for fada and in all my conscious memories of these episodes she threatened to kill herself with her car.She'd start some kind of argument with him and go farther and farther into hysterics until she was running out the door screaming she was going to go crash the car. When I was little he always ran after her and wrestled her back into the house but by the time I was a teenager he just let her go.I remember one time when I was about fourteen she tore off in her car and I wondered if she was going to ever come back or wind up dead or cause an accident.My brother was sobbing and fada was just sitting on the living room sofa seething. She did come back in one piece some time later and I overhead her and fada talking in the kitchen.He was asking her, " Why? Why do you do this? " And she said, " Something just comes over me and I can't stop it... " I was so disgusted with that I went to my room and closed the door.It sounded like she was just making up an excuse,to me.And every time she pulled that " suicide " crap it was like she wanted to make fada pay for not reacting to her fit she way she wanted him to. Out of the mouth of a BPD: " I have to get them back. " Wow.That really is what nada was doing... > > As an informal pastor, I often get together with folks I meet at church to discuss life/spiritual issues. Last night, I met with a young lady who was experiencing some difficulties. I didn't know her well--we had only met 2 times. > > I asked her about her life story. In the middle of the story, she said " I struggle a lot, because I have a mental illness. It's not bi-polar, it's something called Borderline Personality Disorder . . . " > > ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? > > With great restraint, I didn't run from the table immediately and change my phone number. And I'm glad I didn't. > > Turns out, I found the holy grail. A BPD who acknowledges her illness and fully owns her behavior. Yeah. I know. > > She described her life from a BPD's perspective. It was amazing. She talked about how she gets triggered, and has about 30 seconds before she completely disassociates. Then, she " comes to " and looks around the room, checks out everyone's non-verbals and quickly pieces together what she did. (Reading non-verbals is a skill she does exceptionally well). > > She talked about how hard it is, because she alienates everyone and she is a very social person. She said " It's not their fault--I do these really crazy things and I'm not safe. " > > She talked about " hoovering " and how she intentionally escalates her behavior to hook people back in once she's alienated them. And it was interesting, because she described it as something like an addiction: " I don't want to do it, but I can't stop myself--it's like something else takes over, and I have to get them back. " > > As we talked about a major life decision she's trying to make, she said, several times, " I'm trying really hard to be in a grey area here. You know everything is so black and white and extreme--I have a hard time being balanced. " > > Of course, she admitted she's addicted to alcohol and engaging in some very self-destructive behavior. I stayed far away from that discussion. > > It was a conversation I thought I'd never have, and it was very surreal experience. Imagine . . .discussing BPD with a " recovering " BPD. I was even able to ask her some questions about my mother. i.e., what is it like when you do this? > > Good news: BPDs who acknowledge themselves as the problem do exist! > > Bad news: Even with all of her amazing self-awareness . . . none of the behaviors have changed. She's still getting fired wherever she goes, lies as easily as she breathes (since she creates her own reality on the spot) and is so destructive her family won't be around her. > > It's like a hope with no hope. > > Blessings, > Karla > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Hi Karla, Wow! Thanks for this detailed account, it's really fascinating. I have to say that, in many years on the board, I've seen a few KOs describe moments or cycles of ludicity in the bpd. During that time, they seem to admit and comprehend *everything*, just like this parishioner of yours...but then, sadly, they fall right back into denial and their normal ways. My own nada once said to me that she 'had this even in [her]' and she didn't understand it or where it came from. That contrition lasted about 24 hours... I'm sorry to be such a cynic, but I almost feel like this bpd was using her conversation with you, where she said all the right, contrite things, to prove to herself she was 'good' even though her family wouldn't talk to her. I am very jaded though, so please don't be discouraged by my impression! --Charlie > > As an informal pastor, I often get together with folks I meet at church to discuss life/spiritual issues. Last night, I met with a young lady who was experiencing some difficulties. I didn't know her well--we had only met 2 times. > > I asked her about her life story. In the middle of the story, she said " I struggle a lot, because I have a mental illness. It's not bi-polar, it's something called Borderline Personality Disorder . . . " > > ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? > > With great restraint, I didn't run from the table immediately and change my phone number. And I'm glad I didn't. > > Turns out, I found the holy grail. A BPD who acknowledges her illness and fully owns her behavior. Yeah. I know. > > She described her life from a BPD's perspective. It was amazing. She talked about how she gets triggered, and has about 30 seconds before she completely disassociates. Then, she " comes to " and looks around the room, checks out everyone's non-verbals and quickly pieces together what she did. (Reading non-verbals is a skill she does exceptionally well). > > She talked about how hard it is, because she alienates everyone and she is a very social person. She said " It's not their fault--I do these really crazy things and I'm not safe. " > > She talked about " hoovering " and how she intentionally escalates her behavior to hook people back in once she's alienated them. And it was interesting, because she described it as something like an addiction: " I don't want to do it, but I can't stop myself--it's like something else takes over, and I have to get them back. " > > As we talked about a major life decision she's trying to make, she said, several times, " I'm trying really hard to be in a grey area here. You know everything is so black and white and extreme--I have a hard time being balanced. " > > Of course, she admitted she's addicted to alcohol and engaging in some very self-destructive behavior. I stayed far away from that discussion. > > It was a conversation I thought I'd never have, and it was very surreal experience. Imagine . . .discussing BPD with a " recovering " BPD. I was even able to ask her some questions about my mother. i.e., what is it like when you do this? > > Good news: BPDs who acknowledge themselves as the problem do exist! > > Bad news: Even with all of her amazing self-awareness . . . none of the behaviors have changed. She's still getting fired wherever she goes, lies as easily as she breathes (since she creates her own reality on the spot) and is so destructive her family won't be around her. > > It's like a hope with no hope. > > Blessings, > Karla > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Hi Karla, Wow! Thanks for this detailed account, it's really fascinating. I have to say that, in many years on the board, I've seen a few KOs describe moments or cycles of ludicity in the bpd. During that time, they seem to admit and comprehend *everything*, just like this parishioner of yours...but then, sadly, they fall right back into denial and their normal ways. My own nada once said to me that she 'had this even in [her]' and she didn't understand it or where it came from. That contrition lasted about 24 hours... I'm sorry to be such a cynic, but I almost feel like this bpd was using her conversation with you, where she said all the right, contrite things, to prove to herself she was 'good' even though her family wouldn't talk to her. I am very jaded though, so please don't be discouraged by my impression! --Charlie > > As an informal pastor, I often get together with folks I meet at church to discuss life/spiritual issues. Last night, I met with a young lady who was experiencing some difficulties. I didn't know her well--we had only met 2 times. > > I asked her about her life story. In the middle of the story, she said " I struggle a lot, because I have a mental illness. It's not bi-polar, it's something called Borderline Personality Disorder . . . " > > ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? > > With great restraint, I didn't run from the table immediately and change my phone number. And I'm glad I didn't. > > Turns out, I found the holy grail. A BPD who acknowledges her illness and fully owns her behavior. Yeah. I know. > > She described her life from a BPD's perspective. It was amazing. She talked about how she gets triggered, and has about 30 seconds before she completely disassociates. Then, she " comes to " and looks around the room, checks out everyone's non-verbals and quickly pieces together what she did. (Reading non-verbals is a skill she does exceptionally well). > > She talked about how hard it is, because she alienates everyone and she is a very social person. She said " It's not their fault--I do these really crazy things and I'm not safe. " > > She talked about " hoovering " and how she intentionally escalates her behavior to hook people back in once she's alienated them. And it was interesting, because she described it as something like an addiction: " I don't want to do it, but I can't stop myself--it's like something else takes over, and I have to get them back. " > > As we talked about a major life decision she's trying to make, she said, several times, " I'm trying really hard to be in a grey area here. You know everything is so black and white and extreme--I have a hard time being balanced. " > > Of course, she admitted she's addicted to alcohol and engaging in some very self-destructive behavior. I stayed far away from that discussion. > > It was a conversation I thought I'd never have, and it was very surreal experience. Imagine . . .discussing BPD with a " recovering " BPD. I was even able to ask her some questions about my mother. i.e., what is it like when you do this? > > Good news: BPDs who acknowledge themselves as the problem do exist! > > Bad news: Even with all of her amazing self-awareness . . . none of the behaviors have changed. She's still getting fired wherever she goes, lies as easily as she breathes (since she creates her own reality on the spot) and is so destructive her family won't be around her. > > It's like a hope with no hope. > > Blessings, > Karla > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Hi Karla, Wow! Thanks for this detailed account, it's really fascinating. I have to say that, in many years on the board, I've seen a few KOs describe moments or cycles of ludicity in the bpd. During that time, they seem to admit and comprehend *everything*, just like this parishioner of yours...but then, sadly, they fall right back into denial and their normal ways. My own nada once said to me that she 'had this even in [her]' and she didn't understand it or where it came from. That contrition lasted about 24 hours... I'm sorry to be such a cynic, but I almost feel like this bpd was using her conversation with you, where she said all the right, contrite things, to prove to herself she was 'good' even though her family wouldn't talk to her. I am very jaded though, so please don't be discouraged by my impression! --Charlie > > As an informal pastor, I often get together with folks I meet at church to discuss life/spiritual issues. Last night, I met with a young lady who was experiencing some difficulties. I didn't know her well--we had only met 2 times. > > I asked her about her life story. In the middle of the story, she said " I struggle a lot, because I have a mental illness. It's not bi-polar, it's something called Borderline Personality Disorder . . . " > > ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? > > With great restraint, I didn't run from the table immediately and change my phone number. And I'm glad I didn't. > > Turns out, I found the holy grail. A BPD who acknowledges her illness and fully owns her behavior. Yeah. I know. > > She described her life from a BPD's perspective. It was amazing. She talked about how she gets triggered, and has about 30 seconds before she completely disassociates. Then, she " comes to " and looks around the room, checks out everyone's non-verbals and quickly pieces together what she did. (Reading non-verbals is a skill she does exceptionally well). > > She talked about how hard it is, because she alienates everyone and she is a very social person. She said " It's not their fault--I do these really crazy things and I'm not safe. " > > She talked about " hoovering " and how she intentionally escalates her behavior to hook people back in once she's alienated them. And it was interesting, because she described it as something like an addiction: " I don't want to do it, but I can't stop myself--it's like something else takes over, and I have to get them back. " > > As we talked about a major life decision she's trying to make, she said, several times, " I'm trying really hard to be in a grey area here. You know everything is so black and white and extreme--I have a hard time being balanced. " > > Of course, she admitted she's addicted to alcohol and engaging in some very self-destructive behavior. I stayed far away from that discussion. > > It was a conversation I thought I'd never have, and it was very surreal experience. Imagine . . .discussing BPD with a " recovering " BPD. I was even able to ask her some questions about my mother. i.e., what is it like when you do this? > > Good news: BPDs who acknowledge themselves as the problem do exist! > > Bad news: Even with all of her amazing self-awareness . . . none of the behaviors have changed. She's still getting fired wherever she goes, lies as easily as she breathes (since she creates her own reality on the spot) and is so destructive her family won't be around her. > > It's like a hope with no hope. > > Blessings, > Karla > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Oops, that was supposed to say 'evil', not 'even'. Sorry everybody! My nada said to me once that 'she had this EVIL in her' that she could not control. She seemed so sincerely upset about it! But only because it made her 'bad', not because she had hurt me...because 24 hours later she was back to hurting me again. > > > > > > > Hi Karla, > > > > Wow! Thanks for this detailed account, it's really fascinating. I have to > > say that, in many years on the board, I've seen a few KOs describe moments > > or cycles of ludicity in the bpd. During that time, they seem to admit and > > comprehend *everything*, just like this parishioner of yours...but then, > > sadly, they fall right back into denial and their normal ways. My own nada > > once said to me that she 'had this even in [her]' and she didn't understand > > it or where it came from. That contrition lasted about 24 hours... I'm sorry > > to be such a cynic, but I almost feel like this bpd was using her > > conversation with you, where she said all the right, contrite things, to > > prove to herself she was 'good' even though her family wouldn't talk to her. > > I am very jaded though, so please don't be discouraged by my impression! > > > > --Charlie > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Oops, that was supposed to say 'evil', not 'even'. Sorry everybody! My nada said to me once that 'she had this EVIL in her' that she could not control. She seemed so sincerely upset about it! But only because it made her 'bad', not because she had hurt me...because 24 hours later she was back to hurting me again. > > > > > > > Hi Karla, > > > > Wow! Thanks for this detailed account, it's really fascinating. I have to > > say that, in many years on the board, I've seen a few KOs describe moments > > or cycles of ludicity in the bpd. During that time, they seem to admit and > > comprehend *everything*, just like this parishioner of yours...but then, > > sadly, they fall right back into denial and their normal ways. My own nada > > once said to me that she 'had this even in [her]' and she didn't understand > > it or where it came from. That contrition lasted about 24 hours... I'm sorry > > to be such a cynic, but I almost feel like this bpd was using her > > conversation with you, where she said all the right, contrite things, to > > prove to herself she was 'good' even though her family wouldn't talk to her. > > I am very jaded though, so please don't be discouraged by my impression! > > > > --Charlie > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Oops, that was supposed to say 'evil', not 'even'. Sorry everybody! My nada said to me once that 'she had this EVIL in her' that she could not control. She seemed so sincerely upset about it! But only because it made her 'bad', not because she had hurt me...because 24 hours later she was back to hurting me again. > > > > > > > Hi Karla, > > > > Wow! Thanks for this detailed account, it's really fascinating. I have to > > say that, in many years on the board, I've seen a few KOs describe moments > > or cycles of ludicity in the bpd. During that time, they seem to admit and > > comprehend *everything*, just like this parishioner of yours...but then, > > sadly, they fall right back into denial and their normal ways. My own nada > > once said to me that she 'had this even in [her]' and she didn't understand > > it or where it came from. That contrition lasted about 24 hours... I'm sorry > > to be such a cynic, but I almost feel like this bpd was using her > > conversation with you, where she said all the right, contrite things, to > > prove to herself she was 'good' even though her family wouldn't talk to her. > > I am very jaded though, so please don't be discouraged by my impression! > > > > --Charlie > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 You know, that was the weird thing. She wasn't contrite at all. She was talking about her disease like someone discussing their diabetes. Descriptive. Calm. Talking about the reality of it while wishing it she didn't have it. Wishing, more than anything, that she could just make it go away. AND she still has all of those behaviors. I could see her cognitive distortions even as we talked. It was like she could discuss the fact that she had cognitive distortions, but couldn't stop them from happening. Or, for that matter, even know when she was doing it. It was like someone discussing any other medical condition. " I have this condition. It makes me do this. It restricts this activity. I hate it and wish I could be healed. " She was very clinical in her discussion of BPD. Again, for me it just drove home one point: it is a mental illness. Which doesn't help those of us who suffered under that illness AT ALL. Somehow, that makes it worse for me in ways. And, for the record, I won't have contact with her again. It was fascinating. I appreciated it very much. It was an entirely new perspective, which made a huge difference for me. She is an incredible person for coming as far as she has. I admire the heck out of her. And . . . she is BPD. Period, end of story. Which means there is no way whatsoever I will have continued contact. I'm fascinated. Not stupid. :-) Blessings! > > > > As an informal pastor, I often get together with folks I meet at church to discuss life/spiritual issues. Last night, I met with a young lady who was experiencing some difficulties. I didn't know her well--we had only met 2 times. > > > > I asked her about her life story. In the middle of the story, she said " I struggle a lot, because I have a mental illness. It's not bi-polar, it's something called Borderline Personality Disorder . . . " > > > > ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? > > > > With great restraint, I didn't run from the table immediately and change my phone number. And I'm glad I didn't. > > > > Turns out, I found the holy grail. A BPD who acknowledges her illness and fully owns her behavior. Yeah. I know. > > > > She described her life from a BPD's perspective. It was amazing. She talked about how she gets triggered, and has about 30 seconds before she completely disassociates. Then, she " comes to " and looks around the room, checks out everyone's non-verbals and quickly pieces together what she did. (Reading non-verbals is a skill she does exceptionally well). > > > > She talked about how hard it is, because she alienates everyone and she is a very social person. She said " It's not their fault--I do these really crazy things and I'm not safe. " > > > > She talked about " hoovering " and how she intentionally escalates her behavior to hook people back in once she's alienated them. And it was interesting, because she described it as something like an addiction: " I don't want to do it, but I can't stop myself--it's like something else takes over, and I have to get them back. " > > > > As we talked about a major life decision she's trying to make, she said, several times, " I'm trying really hard to be in a grey area here. You know everything is so black and white and extreme--I have a hard time being balanced. " > > > > Of course, she admitted she's addicted to alcohol and engaging in some very self-destructive behavior. I stayed far away from that discussion. > > > > It was a conversation I thought I'd never have, and it was very surreal experience. Imagine . . .discussing BPD with a " recovering " BPD. I was even able to ask her some questions about my mother. i.e., what is it like when you do this? > > > > Good news: BPDs who acknowledge themselves as the problem do exist! > > > > Bad news: Even with all of her amazing self-awareness . . . none of the behaviors have changed. She's still getting fired wherever she goes, lies as easily as she breathes (since she creates her own reality on the spot) and is so destructive her family won't be around her. > > > > It's like a hope with no hope. > > > > Blessings, > > Karla > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 p.s. Not discouraged at all! Obviously, her and I can't be friends. Nor acquaintances, for that matter. Like I said--this was the hope without hope. Even the BPD who knew her diagnosis and has come miles farther than any other BPD . . . she was still just as sick. Still just as destructive. Still just as addictive/harmful/you name it. Her knowing didn't make any of her awful behaviors go away. Wow. I just didn't expect that! Blessings, Karla > > > > As an informal pastor, I often get together with folks I meet at church to discuss life/spiritual issues. Last night, I met with a young lady who was experiencing some difficulties. I didn't know her well--we had only met 2 times. > > > > I asked her about her life story. In the middle of the story, she said " I struggle a lot, because I have a mental illness. It's not bi-polar, it's something called Borderline Personality Disorder . . . " > > > > ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? > > > > With great restraint, I didn't run from the table immediately and change my phone number. And I'm glad I didn't. > > > > Turns out, I found the holy grail. A BPD who acknowledges her illness and fully owns her behavior. Yeah. I know. > > > > She described her life from a BPD's perspective. It was amazing. She talked about how she gets triggered, and has about 30 seconds before she completely disassociates. Then, she " comes to " and looks around the room, checks out everyone's non-verbals and quickly pieces together what she did. (Reading non-verbals is a skill she does exceptionally well). > > > > She talked about how hard it is, because she alienates everyone and she is a very social person. She said " It's not their fault--I do these really crazy things and I'm not safe. " > > > > She talked about " hoovering " and how she intentionally escalates her behavior to hook people back in once she's alienated them. And it was interesting, because she described it as something like an addiction: " I don't want to do it, but I can't stop myself--it's like something else takes over, and I have to get them back. " > > > > As we talked about a major life decision she's trying to make, she said, several times, " I'm trying really hard to be in a grey area here. You know everything is so black and white and extreme--I have a hard time being balanced. " > > > > Of course, she admitted she's addicted to alcohol and engaging in some very self-destructive behavior. I stayed far away from that discussion. > > > > It was a conversation I thought I'd never have, and it was very surreal experience. Imagine . . .discussing BPD with a " recovering " BPD. I was even able to ask her some questions about my mother. i.e., what is it like when you do this? > > > > Good news: BPDs who acknowledge themselves as the problem do exist! > > > > Bad news: Even with all of her amazing self-awareness . . . none of the behaviors have changed. She's still getting fired wherever she goes, lies as easily as she breathes (since she creates her own reality on the spot) and is so destructive her family won't be around her. > > > > It's like a hope with no hope. > > > > Blessings, > > Karla > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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