Guest guest Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Definitely this concept resonates with me RE my own nada's behaviors. Mine was able to appear charming, rational and appealing in public (I think that ability is deteriorating now) yet nada would behave completely differently in private. My nada's contrition and remorse and her promises RE her acting out behaviors would also evaporate quickly, as you describe. -Annie > > Oops, that was supposed to say 'evil', not 'even'. Sorry everybody! My nada said to me once that 'she had this EVIL in her' that she could not control. She seemed so sincerely upset about it! But only because it made her 'bad', not because she had hurt me...because 24 hours later she was back to hurting me again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Definitely this concept resonates with me RE my own nada's behaviors. Mine was able to appear charming, rational and appealing in public (I think that ability is deteriorating now) yet nada would behave completely differently in private. My nada's contrition and remorse and her promises RE her acting out behaviors would also evaporate quickly, as you describe. -Annie > > Oops, that was supposed to say 'evil', not 'even'. Sorry everybody! My nada said to me once that 'she had this EVIL in her' that she could not control. She seemed so sincerely upset about it! But only because it made her 'bad', not because she had hurt me...because 24 hours later she was back to hurting me again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Definitely this concept resonates with me RE my own nada's behaviors. Mine was able to appear charming, rational and appealing in public (I think that ability is deteriorating now) yet nada would behave completely differently in private. My nada's contrition and remorse and her promises RE her acting out behaviors would also evaporate quickly, as you describe. -Annie > > Oops, that was supposed to say 'evil', not 'even'. Sorry everybody! My nada said to me once that 'she had this EVIL in her' that she could not control. She seemed so sincerely upset about it! But only because it made her 'bad', not because she had hurt me...because 24 hours later she was back to hurting me again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 I think that is probably her way of avoiding personal responsibility for what she says and does and of avoiding having to actually work at changing her behaviors by saying in effect that its useless: " Yes, I act out and I'm abusive, but its not my fault; I have this thing called bpd, I can't help it. " (Really similar to the way alcohol abusers think: " I'm an alcoholic. Its not my fault; its a disease and I can't help it. " ) -Annie > > You know, that was the weird thing. She wasn't contrite at all. She was talking about her disease like someone discussing their diabetes. Descriptive. Calm. Talking about the reality of it while wishing it she didn't have it. Wishing, more than anything, that she could just make it go away. > > AND she still has all of those behaviors. I could see her cognitive distortions even as we talked. It was like she could discuss the fact that she had cognitive distortions, but couldn't stop them from happening. Or, for that matter, even know when she was doing it. > > It was like someone discussing any other medical condition. " I have this condition. It makes me do this. It restricts this activity. I hate it and wish I could be healed. " She was very clinical in her discussion of BPD. > > Again, for me it just drove home one point: it is a mental illness. Which doesn't help those of us who suffered under that illness AT ALL. Somehow, that makes it worse for me in ways. > > And, for the record, I won't have contact with her again. It was fascinating. I appreciated it very much. It was an entirely new perspective, which made a huge difference for me. She is an incredible person for coming as far as she has. I admire the heck out of her. And . . . she is BPD. Period, end of story. Which means there is no way whatsoever I will have continued contact. > > I'm fascinated. Not stupid. :-) > > Blessings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 I think that is probably her way of avoiding personal responsibility for what she says and does and of avoiding having to actually work at changing her behaviors by saying in effect that its useless: " Yes, I act out and I'm abusive, but its not my fault; I have this thing called bpd, I can't help it. " (Really similar to the way alcohol abusers think: " I'm an alcoholic. Its not my fault; its a disease and I can't help it. " ) -Annie > > You know, that was the weird thing. She wasn't contrite at all. She was talking about her disease like someone discussing their diabetes. Descriptive. Calm. Talking about the reality of it while wishing it she didn't have it. Wishing, more than anything, that she could just make it go away. > > AND she still has all of those behaviors. I could see her cognitive distortions even as we talked. It was like she could discuss the fact that she had cognitive distortions, but couldn't stop them from happening. Or, for that matter, even know when she was doing it. > > It was like someone discussing any other medical condition. " I have this condition. It makes me do this. It restricts this activity. I hate it and wish I could be healed. " She was very clinical in her discussion of BPD. > > Again, for me it just drove home one point: it is a mental illness. Which doesn't help those of us who suffered under that illness AT ALL. Somehow, that makes it worse for me in ways. > > And, for the record, I won't have contact with her again. It was fascinating. I appreciated it very much. It was an entirely new perspective, which made a huge difference for me. She is an incredible person for coming as far as she has. I admire the heck out of her. And . . . she is BPD. Period, end of story. Which means there is no way whatsoever I will have continued contact. > > I'm fascinated. Not stupid. :-) > > Blessings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 I think that is probably her way of avoiding personal responsibility for what she says and does and of avoiding having to actually work at changing her behaviors by saying in effect that its useless: " Yes, I act out and I'm abusive, but its not my fault; I have this thing called bpd, I can't help it. " (Really similar to the way alcohol abusers think: " I'm an alcoholic. Its not my fault; its a disease and I can't help it. " ) -Annie > > You know, that was the weird thing. She wasn't contrite at all. She was talking about her disease like someone discussing their diabetes. Descriptive. Calm. Talking about the reality of it while wishing it she didn't have it. Wishing, more than anything, that she could just make it go away. > > AND she still has all of those behaviors. I could see her cognitive distortions even as we talked. It was like she could discuss the fact that she had cognitive distortions, but couldn't stop them from happening. Or, for that matter, even know when she was doing it. > > It was like someone discussing any other medical condition. " I have this condition. It makes me do this. It restricts this activity. I hate it and wish I could be healed. " She was very clinical in her discussion of BPD. > > Again, for me it just drove home one point: it is a mental illness. Which doesn't help those of us who suffered under that illness AT ALL. Somehow, that makes it worse for me in ways. > > And, for the record, I won't have contact with her again. It was fascinating. I appreciated it very much. It was an entirely new perspective, which made a huge difference for me. She is an incredible person for coming as far as she has. I admire the heck out of her. And . . . she is BPD. Period, end of story. Which means there is no way whatsoever I will have continued contact. > > I'm fascinated. Not stupid. :-) > > Blessings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Again, similar to an alcoholic. The alcoholic is never " cured " , they always will be an alcoholic, its just that some of them are in more conscious control of their craving to get drunk. Even knowing that alcohol will kill them, even after going through " detox " so that their physical dependence on the drug is over, they still have the craving to get drunk. But some decide that having self-respect, having a loving family, a job, a longer and more healthy life, etc., are more important to them, so they make the titanic effort it takes to not drink anymore, even though they want to. -Annie > > p.s. Not discouraged at all! Obviously, her and I can't be friends. Nor acquaintances, for that matter. > > Like I said--this was the hope without hope. Even the BPD who knew her diagnosis and has come miles farther than any other BPD . . . she was still just as sick. Still just as destructive. Still just as addictive/harmful/you name it. > > Her knowing didn't make any of her awful behaviors go away. Wow. > > I just didn't expect that! > > Blessings, > Karla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Again, similar to an alcoholic. The alcoholic is never " cured " , they always will be an alcoholic, its just that some of them are in more conscious control of their craving to get drunk. Even knowing that alcohol will kill them, even after going through " detox " so that their physical dependence on the drug is over, they still have the craving to get drunk. But some decide that having self-respect, having a loving family, a job, a longer and more healthy life, etc., are more important to them, so they make the titanic effort it takes to not drink anymore, even though they want to. -Annie > > p.s. Not discouraged at all! Obviously, her and I can't be friends. Nor acquaintances, for that matter. > > Like I said--this was the hope without hope. Even the BPD who knew her diagnosis and has come miles farther than any other BPD . . . she was still just as sick. Still just as destructive. Still just as addictive/harmful/you name it. > > Her knowing didn't make any of her awful behaviors go away. Wow. > > I just didn't expect that! > > Blessings, > Karla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Again, similar to an alcoholic. The alcoholic is never " cured " , they always will be an alcoholic, its just that some of them are in more conscious control of their craving to get drunk. Even knowing that alcohol will kill them, even after going through " detox " so that their physical dependence on the drug is over, they still have the craving to get drunk. But some decide that having self-respect, having a loving family, a job, a longer and more healthy life, etc., are more important to them, so they make the titanic effort it takes to not drink anymore, even though they want to. -Annie > > p.s. Not discouraged at all! Obviously, her and I can't be friends. Nor acquaintances, for that matter. > > Like I said--this was the hope without hope. Even the BPD who knew her diagnosis and has come miles farther than any other BPD . . . she was still just as sick. Still just as destructive. Still just as addictive/harmful/you name it. > > Her knowing didn't make any of her awful behaviors go away. Wow. > > I just didn't expect that! > > Blessings, > Karla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Yes, that's true. I'm not arguing any of this, I'm just speaking to my new place of understanding. It really is a mental illness. Yes, they choose to avoid healing. Yes, they can engage enough therapy to make a difference. But no. They don't choose to be mentally ill. And I've never seen the " mental illness " portion of it so loud and clear. Behaving like they do isn't something they choose in the moment. They are mentally ill. Which, of course, does not let them off the hook at all. Nor does it make our pain any less--in fact, it seems to make it worse. Like I said: seeing this as a mental illness that can't be " chosen " out of in the moment was (for me) the hope with no hope. I'm aware of how BPD works. I'm certainly aware of how manipulative they are and what good actors they are. Based on my reading, I'm also aware there are the rare cases where people with BPD do get help and show improvement, however small. I had the benefit of meeting one of these people. For me, it was a profound moment. It was also a place of healing and acceptance for me. I always thought, from the time I was little, that nada would change her behavior if only I could make her SEE how much she hurt me! The meeting was a way for me to truly put that to rest. Even if nada had seen, even if she got to the point where she could admit she had BPD, she wouldn't have been able to change. Not without many, many years of therapy. For me, it brought a very intense place of new understanding. It wasn't the start of a beautiful friendship, it wasn't a redemption of my mother's wrongs, and it wasn't an excuse for any behavior. It was just a new place of understanding. Thanks, Karla > > > > p.s. Not discouraged at all! Obviously, her and I can't be friends. Nor acquaintances, for that matter. > > > > Like I said--this was the hope without hope. Even the BPD who knew her diagnosis and has come miles farther than any other BPD . . . she was still just as sick. Still just as destructive. Still just as addictive/harmful/you name it. > > > > Her knowing didn't make any of her awful behaviors go away. Wow. > > > > I just didn't expect that! > > > > Blessings, > > Karla > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Yes, that's true. I'm not arguing any of this, I'm just speaking to my new place of understanding. It really is a mental illness. Yes, they choose to avoid healing. Yes, they can engage enough therapy to make a difference. But no. They don't choose to be mentally ill. And I've never seen the " mental illness " portion of it so loud and clear. Behaving like they do isn't something they choose in the moment. They are mentally ill. Which, of course, does not let them off the hook at all. Nor does it make our pain any less--in fact, it seems to make it worse. Like I said: seeing this as a mental illness that can't be " chosen " out of in the moment was (for me) the hope with no hope. I'm aware of how BPD works. I'm certainly aware of how manipulative they are and what good actors they are. Based on my reading, I'm also aware there are the rare cases where people with BPD do get help and show improvement, however small. I had the benefit of meeting one of these people. For me, it was a profound moment. It was also a place of healing and acceptance for me. I always thought, from the time I was little, that nada would change her behavior if only I could make her SEE how much she hurt me! The meeting was a way for me to truly put that to rest. Even if nada had seen, even if she got to the point where she could admit she had BPD, she wouldn't have been able to change. Not without many, many years of therapy. For me, it brought a very intense place of new understanding. It wasn't the start of a beautiful friendship, it wasn't a redemption of my mother's wrongs, and it wasn't an excuse for any behavior. It was just a new place of understanding. Thanks, Karla > > > > p.s. Not discouraged at all! Obviously, her and I can't be friends. Nor acquaintances, for that matter. > > > > Like I said--this was the hope without hope. Even the BPD who knew her diagnosis and has come miles farther than any other BPD . . . she was still just as sick. Still just as destructive. Still just as addictive/harmful/you name it. > > > > Her knowing didn't make any of her awful behaviors go away. Wow. > > > > I just didn't expect that! > > > > Blessings, > > Karla > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Yes, that's true. I'm not arguing any of this, I'm just speaking to my new place of understanding. It really is a mental illness. Yes, they choose to avoid healing. Yes, they can engage enough therapy to make a difference. But no. They don't choose to be mentally ill. And I've never seen the " mental illness " portion of it so loud and clear. Behaving like they do isn't something they choose in the moment. They are mentally ill. Which, of course, does not let them off the hook at all. Nor does it make our pain any less--in fact, it seems to make it worse. Like I said: seeing this as a mental illness that can't be " chosen " out of in the moment was (for me) the hope with no hope. I'm aware of how BPD works. I'm certainly aware of how manipulative they are and what good actors they are. Based on my reading, I'm also aware there are the rare cases where people with BPD do get help and show improvement, however small. I had the benefit of meeting one of these people. For me, it was a profound moment. It was also a place of healing and acceptance for me. I always thought, from the time I was little, that nada would change her behavior if only I could make her SEE how much she hurt me! The meeting was a way for me to truly put that to rest. Even if nada had seen, even if she got to the point where she could admit she had BPD, she wouldn't have been able to change. Not without many, many years of therapy. For me, it brought a very intense place of new understanding. It wasn't the start of a beautiful friendship, it wasn't a redemption of my mother's wrongs, and it wasn't an excuse for any behavior. It was just a new place of understanding. Thanks, Karla > > > > p.s. Not discouraged at all! Obviously, her and I can't be friends. Nor acquaintances, for that matter. > > > > Like I said--this was the hope without hope. Even the BPD who knew her diagnosis and has come miles farther than any other BPD . . . she was still just as sick. Still just as destructive. Still just as addictive/harmful/you name it. > > > > Her knowing didn't make any of her awful behaviors go away. Wow. > > > > I just didn't expect that! > > > > Blessings, > > Karla > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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