Re: Advice needed--my mother hates the words your choice

[Guest guest]

Hi Mandy,

I'm sorry to have to say this, but I don't think there are any

phrases that will get that point across without setting her off

once she gets the point. The problem is the point, not the

phrase you're using to get it across. One of the problems with

nadas is that they don't recognize/accept that it is possible

for us to see things differently than they do without someone

being wrong. You have to either agree with them or be against

them. There's no agreeing to disagree. They tend to feel

attacked when you disagree. The idea that two different opinions

or choices could both be valid isn't one they like to entertain.

My nada once had a fit because I expressed liking for the green

run rather than the blue one when she asked which I liked better

at the store. My technique in dealing with her is to make

neutral comments that don't agree or disagree with her. You can

try saying things like " And how do you expect that to work out? "

or " What do you think will happen after that? " when she tells

you she's going to do something that you disagree with. If what

she's saying is insulting to me or otherwise nasty, I just tell

her we're not going to talk about that, and then I make good on

that threat and remove myself from the conversation if she won't

stop. The only way to win that game is not to play, so I refuse

to play.

At 11:11 PM 01/18/2011 mandy wrote:

>Hello Everyone--

>After reading several books (WSYL being one of them) I've

>employed several phrases to deflect rages by my mother. I find

>phrases like, " I understand that you see it that way, I see

>things differently, " and " Yes, that is my choice, you are

>allowed to make your choice " . It worked great....for a

>while. (*Side note she is currently being foreclosed on and I

>have been helping her find and apt, move, take her wrath

>regarding the whole situation...etc.) Anyway, now she starts

>yelling, " Stop it with that 'I understand' and 'your choice'

>crap! " and gets even more enraged. She also yells that I talk

>to her like she is one of my students (I'm an elementary

>teacher). Which is not accurate. I'd like to tell her the

>difference is my kids are mostly logical, rational,

>hard-working individuals and are NOTHING like her...but I doubt

>that would help....haha!

>

>Does anyone have any suggestions for " phrases " that get across

>the point that I'm not arguing and that we can see things

>differently without using the words " choice " and " I

>understand " ? Have you ever had a similar issue?

>

>Thanks for your help.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Hi Mandy,

I'm sorry to have to say this, but I don't think there are any

phrases that will get that point across without setting her off

once she gets the point. The problem is the point, not the

phrase you're using to get it across. One of the problems with

nadas is that they don't recognize/accept that it is possible

for us to see things differently than they do without someone

being wrong. You have to either agree with them or be against

them. There's no agreeing to disagree. They tend to feel

attacked when you disagree. The idea that two different opinions

or choices could both be valid isn't one they like to entertain.

My nada once had a fit because I expressed liking for the green

run rather than the blue one when she asked which I liked better

at the store. My technique in dealing with her is to make

neutral comments that don't agree or disagree with her. You can

try saying things like " And how do you expect that to work out? "

or " What do you think will happen after that? " when she tells

you she's going to do something that you disagree with. If what

she's saying is insulting to me or otherwise nasty, I just tell

her we're not going to talk about that, and then I make good on

that threat and remove myself from the conversation if she won't

stop. The only way to win that game is not to play, so I refuse

to play.

At 11:11 PM 01/18/2011 mandy wrote:

>Hello Everyone--

>After reading several books (WSYL being one of them) I've

>employed several phrases to deflect rages by my mother. I find

>phrases like, " I understand that you see it that way, I see

>things differently, " and " Yes, that is my choice, you are

>allowed to make your choice " . It worked great....for a

>while. (*Side note she is currently being foreclosed on and I

>have been helping her find and apt, move, take her wrath

>regarding the whole situation...etc.) Anyway, now she starts

>yelling, " Stop it with that 'I understand' and 'your choice'

>crap! " and gets even more enraged. She also yells that I talk

>to her like she is one of my students (I'm an elementary

>teacher). Which is not accurate. I'd like to tell her the

>difference is my kids are mostly logical, rational,

>hard-working individuals and are NOTHING like her...but I doubt

>that would help....haha!

>

>Does anyone have any suggestions for " phrases " that get across

>the point that I'm not arguing and that we can see things

>differently without using the words " choice " and " I

>understand " ? Have you ever had a similar issue?

>

>Thanks for your help.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Hi Mandy,

Welcome to the Group.

It sounds to me like your bpd mom is under an extra amount of stress and anxiety

lately. Getting foreclosed on is a very big deal and will send even a normally

calm and mentally healthy person into a tailspin of upset and emotional

dysregulation, seems to me. Perhaps she feels ashamed of her predicament, and

although she is grateful for your help, needing your help shames her, so she

lashes out with criticism to take you down a peg or two so she can feel equal to

or even superior to you again.

Or perhaps the dynamic is: if she can provoke you into a " fight " with her, then

she gets to play the victim, making you the villain/ persecutor.

I'm so sorry that even though you are doing your best to help her, its just

getting you more verbal abuse.

You could set a boundary with her when she acts out and say something like,

" You're upset right now and when you're upset you try to pick a fight with me.

I can't be around you when you treat me like that. I'm leaving now and we can

get together later when you're feeling more calm. "

.... and then leave.

That's the consequence for her treating you abusively.

Consistent negative consequences for acting out will perhaps eventually make it

clear to your bpd mom that if she wants your company and your help, she needs to

treat you with the same politeness and courtesy that she would show any neighbor

or acquaintance. I think our bpd moms (or " nadas " ) get into the habit of being

rude, insulting and even cruel to us because they feel entitled to do so (they

own us and/or we owe them) and justified to do so (we are a disappointment to

them, we can be blamed for their current predicament, we are handy, convenient

punching bags, etc.)

and as children or young people we didn't have the power to call them on this

bad behavior.

But now, we do have the power to stand up for ourselves and demand to be treated

with simple politeness and courtesy.

Just my two cent's worth, to take or leave.

-Annie

>

> Hello Everyone--

> After reading several books (WSYL being one of them) I've employed several

phrases to deflect rages by my mother. I find phrases like, " I understand that

you see it that way, I see things differently, " and " Yes, that is my choice, you

are allowed to make your choice " . It worked great....for a while. (*Side note

she is currently being foreclosed on and I have been helping her find and apt,

move, take her wrath regarding the whole situation...etc.) Anyway, now she

starts yelling, " Stop it with that 'I understand' and 'your choice' crap! " and

gets even more enraged. She also yells that I talk to her like she is one of my

students (I'm an elementary teacher). Which is not accurate. I'd like to tell

her the difference is my kids are mostly logical, rational, hard-working

individuals and are NOTHING like her...but I doubt that would help....haha!

>

> Does anyone have any suggestions for " phrases " that get across the point that

I'm not arguing and that we can see things differently without using the words

" choice " and " I understand " ? Have you ever had a similar issue?

>

> Thanks for your help.

>

[Guest guest]

I love this phrase: " The problem is the point " that's awesome!

Yeah, I agree. When she starts attacking you for your choice of words, its

time to make your exit with a quick explanation. Make sure you are never in

a situation (like driving in the same car) where you can't make a quick

escape. And if you go to a restaurant, have cash ready to toss over your

shoulder as you run away.

Good luck, GS

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 12:38 AM, anuria67854 wrote:

>

>

> Hi Mandy,

>

> Welcome to the Group.

>

> It sounds to me like your bpd mom is under an extra amount of stress and

> anxiety lately. Getting foreclosed on is a very big deal and will send even

> a normally calm and mentally healthy person into a tailspin of upset and

> emotional dysregulation, seems to me. Perhaps she feels ashamed of her

> predicament, and although she is grateful for your help, needing your help

> shames her, so she lashes out with criticism to take you down a peg or two

> so she can feel equal to or even superior to you again.

>

> Or perhaps the dynamic is: if she can provoke you into a " fight " with her,

> then she gets to play the victim, making you the villain/ persecutor.

>

> I'm so sorry that even though you are doing your best to help her, its just

> getting you more verbal abuse.

>

> You could set a boundary with her when she acts out and say something like,

> " You're upset right now and when you're upset you try to pick a fight with

> me. I can't be around you when you treat me like that. I'm leaving now and

> we can get together later when you're feeling more calm. "

> ... and then leave.

> That's the consequence for her treating you abusively.

>

> Consistent negative consequences for acting out will perhaps eventually

> make it clear to your bpd mom that if she wants your company and your help,

> she needs to treat you with the same politeness and courtesy that she would

> show any neighbor or acquaintance. I think our bpd moms (or " nadas " ) get

> into the habit of being rude, insulting and even cruel to us because they

> feel entitled to do so (they own us and/or we owe them) and justified to do

> so (we are a disappointment to them, we can be blamed for their current

> predicament, we are handy, convenient punching bags, etc.)

> and as children or young people we didn't have the power to call them on

> this bad behavior.

>

> But now, we do have the power to stand up for ourselves and demand to be

> treated with simple politeness and courtesy.

>

> Just my two cent's worth, to take or leave.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> >

> > Hello Everyone--

> > After reading several books (WSYL being one of them) I've employed

> several phrases to deflect rages by my mother. I find phrases like, " I

> understand that you see it that way, I see things differently, " and " Yes,

> that is my choice, you are allowed to make your choice " . It worked

> great....for a while. (*Side note she is currently being foreclosed on and I

> have been helping her find and apt, move, take her wrath regarding the whole

> situation...etc.) Anyway, now she starts yelling, " Stop it with that 'I

> understand' and 'your choice' crap! " and gets even more enraged. She also

> yells that I talk to her like she is one of my students (I'm an elementary

> teacher). Which is not accurate. I'd like to tell her the difference is my

> kids are mostly logical, rational, hard-working individuals and are NOTHING

> like her...but I doubt that would help....haha!

> >

> > Does anyone have any suggestions for " phrases " that get across the point

> that I'm not arguing and that we can see things differently without using

> the words " choice " and " I understand " ? Have you ever had a similar issue?

> >

> > Thanks for your help.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Mandy,

When I was actually speaking with my mother, she would do the same exact thing.

When we say things to our nadas that are logical like " It's your choice " , etc,

it might make them feel like they are hitting a wall. Like you are making them

face a reality that isn't their own and they get stuck and don't know what to

do. Like taking candy from a baby. I would say stuff like that with my nada and

just like you, it worked at first, but then one day she freaking blew up and

told me not to say stuff like that, that SHE is the MOM and I am the CHILD and

that I was treated her like my students (I work for a college) and that I can't

tell her this and that. It's ridiculous.

I don't have any suggestions for you as far as phrases go. In my experience I

tried this a few times with nada, and after a short while she catches on and

demands that I " stop talking like that! "

~Sara Jo

>

> Hello Everyone--

> After reading several books (WSYL being one of them) I've employed several

phrases to deflect rages by my mother. I find phrases like, " I understand that

you see it that way, I see things differently, " and " Yes, that is my choice, you

are allowed to make your choice " . It worked great....for a while. (*Side note

she is currently being foreclosed on and I have been helping her find and apt,

move, take her wrath regarding the whole situation...etc.) Anyway, now she

starts yelling, " Stop it with that 'I understand' and 'your choice' crap! " and

gets even more enraged. She also yells that I talk to her like she is one of my

students (I'm an elementary teacher). Which is not accurate. I'd like to tell

her the difference is my kids are mostly logical, rational, hard-working

individuals and are NOTHING like her...but I doubt that would help....haha!

>

> Does anyone have any suggestions for " phrases " that get across the point that

I'm not arguing and that we can see things differently without using the words

" choice " and " I understand " ? Have you ever had a similar issue?

>

> Thanks for your help.

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Mandy,

When I was actually speaking with my mother, she would do the same exact thing.

When we say things to our nadas that are logical like " It's your choice " , etc,

it might make them feel like they are hitting a wall. Like you are making them

face a reality that isn't their own and they get stuck and don't know what to

do. Like taking candy from a baby. I would say stuff like that with my nada and

just like you, it worked at first, but then one day she freaking blew up and

told me not to say stuff like that, that SHE is the MOM and I am the CHILD and

that I was treated her like my students (I work for a college) and that I can't

tell her this and that. It's ridiculous.

I don't have any suggestions for you as far as phrases go. In my experience I

tried this a few times with nada, and after a short while she catches on and

demands that I " stop talking like that! "

~Sara Jo

>

> Hello Everyone--

> After reading several books (WSYL being one of them) I've employed several

phrases to deflect rages by my mother. I find phrases like, " I understand that

you see it that way, I see things differently, " and " Yes, that is my choice, you

are allowed to make your choice " . It worked great....for a while. (*Side note

she is currently being foreclosed on and I have been helping her find and apt,

move, take her wrath regarding the whole situation...etc.) Anyway, now she

starts yelling, " Stop it with that 'I understand' and 'your choice' crap! " and

gets even more enraged. She also yells that I talk to her like she is one of my

students (I'm an elementary teacher). Which is not accurate. I'd like to tell

her the difference is my kids are mostly logical, rational, hard-working

individuals and are NOTHING like her...but I doubt that would help....haha!

>

> Does anyone have any suggestions for " phrases " that get across the point that

I'm not arguing and that we can see things differently without using the words

" choice " and " I understand " ? Have you ever had a similar issue?

>

> Thanks for your help.

>

[Guest guest]

Mandy.

Remember, the whole point to using those phrases is to reflect back her misery

that she tries initially to project onto you.

That's what offends her most--not the phrases themselves, but the accountability

that comes back to her lap. Above all else, BPDs HATE it when you stop letting

them dump on you. So you might as well have fun with it--pull out a thesaurus

and get creative with word insertion until she figures out you are no longer her

dumping area. It will take a long time, and she'll still try occasionally so you

always must remain on guard.

>

> Hello Everyone--

> After reading several books (WSYL being one of them) I've employed several

phrases to deflect rages by my mother. I find phrases like, " I understand that

you see it that way, I see things differently, " and " Yes, that is my choice, you

are allowed to make your choice " . It worked great....for a while. (*Side note

she is currently being foreclosed on and I have been helping her find and apt,

move, take her wrath regarding the whole situation...etc.) Anyway, now she

starts yelling, " Stop it with that 'I understand' and 'your choice' crap! " and

gets even more enraged. She also yells that I talk to her like she is one of my

students (I'm an elementary teacher). Which is not accurate. I'd like to tell

her the difference is my kids are mostly logical, rational, hard-working

individuals and are NOTHING like her...but I doubt that would help....haha!

>

> Does anyone have any suggestions for " phrases " that get across the point that

I'm not arguing and that we can see things differently without using the words

" choice " and " I understand " ? Have you ever had a similar issue?

>

> Thanks for your help.

>

[Guest guest]

Mandy.

Remember, the whole point to using those phrases is to reflect back her misery

that she tries initially to project onto you.

That's what offends her most--not the phrases themselves, but the accountability

that comes back to her lap. Above all else, BPDs HATE it when you stop letting

them dump on you. So you might as well have fun with it--pull out a thesaurus

and get creative with word insertion until she figures out you are no longer her

dumping area. It will take a long time, and she'll still try occasionally so you

always must remain on guard.

>

> Hello Everyone--

> After reading several books (WSYL being one of them) I've employed several

phrases to deflect rages by my mother. I find phrases like, " I understand that

you see it that way, I see things differently, " and " Yes, that is my choice, you

are allowed to make your choice " . It worked great....for a while. (*Side note

she is currently being foreclosed on and I have been helping her find and apt,

move, take her wrath regarding the whole situation...etc.) Anyway, now she

starts yelling, " Stop it with that 'I understand' and 'your choice' crap! " and

gets even more enraged. She also yells that I talk to her like she is one of my

students (I'm an elementary teacher). Which is not accurate. I'd like to tell

her the difference is my kids are mostly logical, rational, hard-working

individuals and are NOTHING like her...but I doubt that would help....haha!

>

> Does anyone have any suggestions for " phrases " that get across the point that

I'm not arguing and that we can see things differently without using the words

" choice " and " I understand " ? Have you ever had a similar issue?

>

> Thanks for your help.

>

[Guest guest]

I can really relate to both you AND Jo. I think Jo and I have the

same nadas!

Nothing you say unless you agree with her WILL make her happy. I get the same

" I'M the MOTHER and YOU'RE the KID " and I'm 60! So now I just let her ramble on

and roll my eyes and make funny faces on the other end of the phone while she

makes her weird or stupid comments. I have to be careful about not listening

though because she sometimes asks me questions and I have NO idea what she was

talking about lol.

For the last three months I have been making it all about HER and only if asked

mention things about me and that's only if I can't change the subject and get

her off that particular topic which now that she has dementia along with the BPD

is very easy to do. Before she was like a tenacious dog with a bone and

wouldn't let go of the topic no matter what I tried to do, but now I can get her

to change the subject because she doesn't remember I don't think what she was

railing about if I get her absorbed in the new topic. It's always something

mundane that she can't get accusatory, inflammatory, vicious or derogatory

about.

As my nada is nearing the end of her life, I wish I could get a nada who wasn't

so quick to be offensive, insulting, derogatory or accusatory towards me but I

will never have that.

[Guest guest]

Thanks all!

I think I knew that the problem was with " the point " not the words...I was just

hoping there was a magical solution! haha, the idea!

I can imagine that being foreclosed on is a struggle. Hers is especially

annoying because my brother and I have been trying to get her to sell that house

for years and she wouldn't...then we find out that she has to move out by Feb.

9th, lose all the equity, and have nothing to show for 30 yrs of mortgage

payments. And of course...it isn't HER fault, she maintains. It is the bank's

fault....oh and my brother and I because she claims she has spent all her money

on us (we are 28 and 30 and living in our own houses) so this simply did not

happen outside of her mind.

ANYWAY--it is just so annoying to go over to house and have to work with her

when she rages. I've left and told her I won't be treated that way but I can

only do that so many times before Feb. 9th, unfortunately I'm working under a

deadline here.

Thank you again for your responses!!

>

> Hello Everyone--

> After reading several books (WSYL being one of them) I've employed several

phrases to deflect rages by my mother. I find phrases like, " I understand that

you see it that way, I see things differently, " and " Yes, that is my choice, you

are allowed to make your choice " . It worked great....for a while. (*Side note

she is currently being foreclosed on and I have been helping her find and apt,

move, take her wrath regarding the whole situation...etc.) Anyway, now she

starts yelling, " Stop it with that 'I understand' and 'your choice' crap! " and

gets even more enraged. She also yells that I talk to her like she is one of my

students (I'm an elementary teacher). Which is not accurate. I'd like to tell

her the difference is my kids are mostly logical, rational, hard-working

individuals and are NOTHING like her...but I doubt that would help....haha!

>

> Does anyone have any suggestions for " phrases " that get across the point that

I'm not arguing and that we can see things differently without using the words

" choice " and " I understand " ? Have you ever had a similar issue?

>

> Thanks for your help.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks all!

I think I knew that the problem was with " the point " not the words...I was just

hoping there was a magical solution! haha, the idea!

I can imagine that being foreclosed on is a struggle. Hers is especially

annoying because my brother and I have been trying to get her to sell that house

for years and she wouldn't...then we find out that she has to move out by Feb.

9th, lose all the equity, and have nothing to show for 30 yrs of mortgage

payments. And of course...it isn't HER fault, she maintains. It is the bank's

fault....oh and my brother and I because she claims she has spent all her money

on us (we are 28 and 30 and living in our own houses) so this simply did not

happen outside of her mind.

ANYWAY--it is just so annoying to go over to house and have to work with her

when she rages. I've left and told her I won't be treated that way but I can

only do that so many times before Feb. 9th, unfortunately I'm working under a

deadline here.

Thank you again for your responses!!

>

> Hello Everyone--

> After reading several books (WSYL being one of them) I've employed several

phrases to deflect rages by my mother. I find phrases like, " I understand that

you see it that way, I see things differently, " and " Yes, that is my choice, you

are allowed to make your choice " . It worked great....for a while. (*Side note

she is currently being foreclosed on and I have been helping her find and apt,

move, take her wrath regarding the whole situation...etc.) Anyway, now she

starts yelling, " Stop it with that 'I understand' and 'your choice' crap! " and

gets even more enraged. She also yells that I talk to her like she is one of my

students (I'm an elementary teacher). Which is not accurate. I'd like to tell

her the difference is my kids are mostly logical, rational, hard-working

individuals and are NOTHING like her...but I doubt that would help....haha!

>

> Does anyone have any suggestions for " phrases " that get across the point that

I'm not arguing and that we can see things differently without using the words

" choice " and " I understand " ? Have you ever had a similar issue?

>

> Thanks for your help.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks all!

I think I knew that the problem was with " the point " not the words...I was just

hoping there was a magical solution! haha, the idea!

I can imagine that being foreclosed on is a struggle. Hers is especially

annoying because my brother and I have been trying to get her to sell that house

for years and she wouldn't...then we find out that she has to move out by Feb.

9th, lose all the equity, and have nothing to show for 30 yrs of mortgage

payments. And of course...it isn't HER fault, she maintains. It is the bank's

fault....oh and my brother and I because she claims she has spent all her money

on us (we are 28 and 30 and living in our own houses) so this simply did not

happen outside of her mind.

ANYWAY--it is just so annoying to go over to house and have to work with her

when she rages. I've left and told her I won't be treated that way but I can

only do that so many times before Feb. 9th, unfortunately I'm working under a

deadline here.

Thank you again for your responses!!

>

> Hello Everyone--

> After reading several books (WSYL being one of them) I've employed several

phrases to deflect rages by my mother. I find phrases like, " I understand that

you see it that way, I see things differently, " and " Yes, that is my choice, you

are allowed to make your choice " . It worked great....for a while. (*Side note

she is currently being foreclosed on and I have been helping her find and apt,

move, take her wrath regarding the whole situation...etc.) Anyway, now she

starts yelling, " Stop it with that 'I understand' and 'your choice' crap! " and

gets even more enraged. She also yells that I talk to her like she is one of my

students (I'm an elementary teacher). Which is not accurate. I'd like to tell

her the difference is my kids are mostly logical, rational, hard-working

individuals and are NOTHING like her...but I doubt that would help....haha!

>

> Does anyone have any suggestions for " phrases " that get across the point that

I'm not arguing and that we can see things differently without using the words

" choice " and " I understand " ? Have you ever had a similar issue?

>

> Thanks for your help.

>

[Guest guest]

De doo doo doo, de da da da

That's all I have to say to you.... Song by the Police, remember that?

Innocuous, bland murmurings to help you say something, anything:

Yes, Mom, I know it's hard....

It'll soon be over.

I'm sorry you have to go through this.

As soon as we're through with (task at hand) let's make tea.

Because anything intelligent and clarifying of the situation will raise her ire,

I'd go bland, beige words. Talk without saying anything. That's my best

offering. Then get the heck away as fast as you can.

AFB

[Guest guest]

De doo doo doo, de da da da

That's all I have to say to you.... Song by the Police, remember that?

Innocuous, bland murmurings to help you say something, anything:

Yes, Mom, I know it's hard....

It'll soon be over.

I'm sorry you have to go through this.

As soon as we're through with (task at hand) let's make tea.

Because anything intelligent and clarifying of the situation will raise her ire,

I'd go bland, beige words. Talk without saying anything. That's my best

offering. Then get the heck away as fast as you can.

AFB

[Guest guest]

Ohhhhhh. I HATE that behavior. She can just let everything go to hell and fall

down around her ears because she KNOWS you and your brother will bail her out.

Man. I know where you're coming from. You don't want her to lose out on that

equity. But what about HER? Why doesn't SHE feel any responsiblity to save her

own behind?

Agh! Aggrivating. I want to tell you to just walk away and let her deal with it,

but I know you won't, because I wouldn't either. I'm the " fixer " in the family

.... or whatever our co-dependent label is.

[Guest guest]

Ohhhhhh. I HATE that behavior. She can just let everything go to hell and fall

down around her ears because she KNOWS you and your brother will bail her out.

Man. I know where you're coming from. You don't want her to lose out on that

equity. But what about HER? Why doesn't SHE feel any responsiblity to save her

own behind?

Agh! Aggrivating. I want to tell you to just walk away and let her deal with it,

but I know you won't, because I wouldn't either. I'm the " fixer " in the family

.... or whatever our co-dependent label is.

[Guest guest]

Ohhhhhh. I HATE that behavior. She can just let everything go to hell and fall

down around her ears because she KNOWS you and your brother will bail her out.

Man. I know where you're coming from. You don't want her to lose out on that

equity. But what about HER? Why doesn't SHE feel any responsiblity to save her

own behind?

Agh! Aggrivating. I want to tell you to just walk away and let her deal with it,

but I know you won't, because I wouldn't either. I'm the " fixer " in the family

.... or whatever our co-dependent label is.