Guest guest Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Hello Talk2Me2, To answer your first question, you turned out so different because you are your own person, not a duplicate of her. BPD seems to have genetic links, but having a parent who has it doesn't mean you inherited whatever particular gene combination is involved. It may or may not also involve invalidating or abusive experiences growing up that trigger it. Those you may have had in plenty, but most people who have bad experiences growing up don't end up with BPD. As for your second question, that's harder to answer. Having a mental illness isn't something they have control over, but that doesn't mean they have no control over themselves. Mental illnesses make it harder to act properly, but they don't take away the ability to make choices and act. The way I see it, the problem with people who have BPD is NOT that they can't control their behavior. They obviously can control it. The problem is that their mechanism for making choices is terribly broken, so the control they exert over themselves isn't what the rest of us consider appropriate control. Your threat to cut off contact with your children may have been enough to get through to her that she had to behave decently around your children. Like anyone else, they sometimes want things badly enough to behave in ways they wouldn't otherwise choose. She apparently wanted contact with your children more than she wanted to misbehave when she was around them. At 02:48 PM 01/17/2011 talk2me242 wrote: >I am new to this group. >I am female 60 yo. >My mother is BP, and while I have been able to manage our >relationship..or at least I think so, maybe I have been kidding >myself. >But she has recently been much more demanding, accusatory, >raging, gaslighting, threats of self-harm and generally >manipulative the closer my son & dtr in law get to the delivery >of my first grandchild. >She is 86, while my enabling father has been deceased for 6 >years. He is now a 'saint' in her recollection, although never >was when he was alive. > > >First-I wonder, why I turned out so different from her. >I am very empathetic, see the world in shades of grey. My two >children, are mentally healthy and did not even know my mother >was BP until they reached the age of 20-25. I told her in very >clear terms when I was pregnant with my first that if she >behaved badly she would have no contact with my child, later >children. And she held it together. >So my second question is, how is that possible? If this is >mental illness, that she has no control over, how could she >hold it together when around them. Granted, she still acted out >with my father, around me and my husband and with her friends, >but if she truly could not control herself, how did she manage >this? > >Thanks in advance for any insight. >talk2me2 -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Hi talk2me. Nice to meet you! Welcome. I think BPs are good at holding it together when it suits them. But generally when they do (in my experience anyway), they are worse when they do rage & go off. Nada is a word many of us use to talk about our BPD mothers. as in " nada real mother " ... if you say it out loud it sounds like " not a real mother " . Anyway, my nada was always far worse with her rages & rants if she had to keep it together to keep up appearances. It's very bizarre if you ask me, but it does seem to be a common theme here with our nadas & fadas (fada = BPD father). Like you, I also wonder how on earth I managed to escape the crazy. I'm much different from my nada... always have been. I think that made her even more angry at me, because I was not like her. I'm my own person and she tried so hard to keep me from being me, but we are who we are. I don't know if God exists or not, but I do pray & thank him every day that I am not like her. I also seem to be noticing a pattern from reading other people's posts. It seems many of the BPD parents get worse in their older age. I'm sorry you have to deal with that, it must be very draining & frustrating. Anyhow, welcome to the group. I'm sorry you had a need to find us, but glad that you did. Mia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Hi talk2me. Nice to meet you! Welcome. I think BPs are good at holding it together when it suits them. But generally when they do (in my experience anyway), they are worse when they do rage & go off. Nada is a word many of us use to talk about our BPD mothers. as in " nada real mother " ... if you say it out loud it sounds like " not a real mother " . Anyway, my nada was always far worse with her rages & rants if she had to keep it together to keep up appearances. It's very bizarre if you ask me, but it does seem to be a common theme here with our nadas & fadas (fada = BPD father). Like you, I also wonder how on earth I managed to escape the crazy. I'm much different from my nada... always have been. I think that made her even more angry at me, because I was not like her. I'm my own person and she tried so hard to keep me from being me, but we are who we are. I don't know if God exists or not, but I do pray & thank him every day that I am not like her. I also seem to be noticing a pattern from reading other people's posts. It seems many of the BPD parents get worse in their older age. I'm sorry you have to deal with that, it must be very draining & frustrating. Anyhow, welcome to the group. I'm sorry you had a need to find us, but glad that you did. Mia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Annie, I find it fascinating that you wrote... " it seems to manifest itself most severely within close, personal relationships. Only the closest family members, particularly the children of these individuals receive the most abuse. " In my effort to deal more effectively, (safely for me) I have tried to set up some rules with my nada. This past weekend I informed her I expected to be treated (at a minimum)with the respect she would give a total stranger. It sounded odd to her, and even odd to my own ears at the time...but she does treat total strangers almost appropriately (unless they do something she feels is a personal slight). It is sad that my aspiration is to be treated as well as a stranger, but that would represent a huge improvement. obviously I still have a lot of work to do...with my self...I don't aspire to change her...just my reactions/interactions with her. Thanks for your thoughts and insight. I rushed home from work to check in and see what had been written..this forum is truly a gift. > > > > I am new to this group. > > I am female 60 yo. > > My mother is BP, and while I have been able to manage our relationship..or at least I think so, maybe I have been kidding myself. > > But she has recently been much more demanding, accusatory, raging, gaslighting, threats of self-harm and generally manipulative the closer my son & dtr in law get to the delivery of my first grandchild. > > She is 86, while my enabling father has been deceased for 6 years. He is now a 'saint' in her recollection, although never was when he was alive. > > > > > > First-I wonder, why I turned out so different from her. > > I am very empathetic, see the world in shades of grey. My two children, are mentally healthy and did not even know my mother was BP until they reached the age of 20-25. I told her in very clear terms when I was pregnant with my first that if she behaved badly she would have no contact with my child, later children. And she held it together. > > So my second question is, how is that possible? If this is mental illness, that she has no control over, how could she hold it together when around them. Granted, she still acted out with my father, around me and my husband and with her friends, but if she truly could not control herself, how did she manage this? > > > > Thanks in advance for any insight. > > talk2me2 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 I wouldn't be able to forgive him either. He threw you, a child, into the path of a monster so his life would be more stable. That's not parenting, that's being spineless. > > > > Hi talk2me. Nice to meet you! Welcome. > > > > I think BPs are good at holding it together when it suits them. But > > generally when they do (in my experience anyway), they are worse when they > > do rage & go off. Nada is a word many of us use to talk about our BPD > > mothers. as in " nada real mother " ... if you say it out loud it sounds like > > " not a real mother " . Anyway, my nada was always far worse with her rages & > > rants if she had to keep it together to keep up appearances. It's very > > bizarre if you ask me, but it does seem to be a common theme here with our > > nadas & fadas (fada = BPD father). > > > > Like you, I also wonder how on earth I managed to escape the crazy. I'm much > > different from my nada... always have been. I think that made her even more > > angry at me, because I was not like her. I'm my own person and she tried so > > hard to keep me from being me, but we are who we are. I don't know if God > > exists or not, but I do pray & thank him every day that I am not like her. > > > > I also seem to be noticing a pattern from reading other people's posts. It > > seems many of the BPD parents get worse in their older age. I'm sorry you > > have to deal with that, it must be very draining & frustrating. > > > > Anyhow, welcome to the group. I'm sorry you had a need to find us, but glad > > that you did. > > > > Mia > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 I wouldn't be able to forgive him either. He threw you, a child, into the path of a monster so his life would be more stable. That's not parenting, that's being spineless. > > > > Hi talk2me. Nice to meet you! Welcome. > > > > I think BPs are good at holding it together when it suits them. But > > generally when they do (in my experience anyway), they are worse when they > > do rage & go off. Nada is a word many of us use to talk about our BPD > > mothers. as in " nada real mother " ... if you say it out loud it sounds like > > " not a real mother " . Anyway, my nada was always far worse with her rages & > > rants if she had to keep it together to keep up appearances. It's very > > bizarre if you ask me, but it does seem to be a common theme here with our > > nadas & fadas (fada = BPD father). > > > > Like you, I also wonder how on earth I managed to escape the crazy. I'm much > > different from my nada... always have been. I think that made her even more > > angry at me, because I was not like her. I'm my own person and she tried so > > hard to keep me from being me, but we are who we are. I don't know if God > > exists or not, but I do pray & thank him every day that I am not like her. > > > > I also seem to be noticing a pattern from reading other people's posts. It > > seems many of the BPD parents get worse in their older age. I'm sorry you > > have to deal with that, it must be very draining & frustrating. > > > > Anyhow, welcome to the group. I'm sorry you had a need to find us, but glad > > that you did. > > > > Mia > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 I agee, that was a terrible thing to do to his little daughter. Spineless is a good description of it. -Annie > > I wouldn't be able to forgive him either. He threw you, a child, into the path of a monster so his life would be more stable. That's not parenting, that's being spineless. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Hi, I've had the same thoughts........I think some of it must be genetic; I got my granddad's genes, instead of my BPD grandmother's genes.........at least that is MY theory. *sigh* Alastriona Subject: I'm new too To: WTOAdultChildren1 Date: Monday, January 17, 2011, 2:48 PM I am new to this group. I am female 60 yo. My mother is BP, and while I have been able to manage our relationship..or at least I think so, maybe I have been kidding myself. But she has recently been much more demanding, accusatory, raging, gaslighting, threats of self-harm and generally manipulative the closer my son & dtr in law get to the delivery of my first grandchild. She is 86, while my enabling father has been deceased for 6 years. He is now a 'saint' in her recollection, although never was when he was alive. First-I wonder, why I turned out so different from her. I am very empathetic, see the world in shades of grey. My two children, are mentally healthy and did not even know my mother was BP until they reached the age of 20-25. I told her in very clear terms when I was pregnant with my first that if she behaved badly she would have no contact with my child, later children. And she held it together. So my second question is, how is that possible? If this is mental illness, that she has no control over, how could she hold it together when around them. Granted, she still acted out with my father, around me and my husband and with her friends, but if she truly could not control herself, how did she manage this? Thanks in advance for any insight. talk2me2 ------------------------------------ **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new book The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells, available at www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write @.... DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST. To unsub from this list, send a blank email to WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe . Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline Parent, " and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to find) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Hi, I've had the same thoughts........I think some of it must be genetic; I got my granddad's genes, instead of my BPD grandmother's genes.........at least that is MY theory. *sigh* Alastriona Subject: I'm new too To: WTOAdultChildren1 Date: Monday, January 17, 2011, 2:48 PM I am new to this group. I am female 60 yo. My mother is BP, and while I have been able to manage our relationship..or at least I think so, maybe I have been kidding myself. But she has recently been much more demanding, accusatory, raging, gaslighting, threats of self-harm and generally manipulative the closer my son & dtr in law get to the delivery of my first grandchild. She is 86, while my enabling father has been deceased for 6 years. He is now a 'saint' in her recollection, although never was when he was alive. First-I wonder, why I turned out so different from her. I am very empathetic, see the world in shades of grey. My two children, are mentally healthy and did not even know my mother was BP until they reached the age of 20-25. I told her in very clear terms when I was pregnant with my first that if she behaved badly she would have no contact with my child, later children. And she held it together. So my second question is, how is that possible? If this is mental illness, that she has no control over, how could she hold it together when around them. Granted, she still acted out with my father, around me and my husband and with her friends, but if she truly could not control herself, how did she manage this? Thanks in advance for any insight. talk2me2 ------------------------------------ **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new book The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells, available at www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write @.... DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST. To unsub from this list, send a blank email to WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe . Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline Parent, " and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to find) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Hi, I've had the same thoughts........I think some of it must be genetic; I got my granddad's genes, instead of my BPD grandmother's genes.........at least that is MY theory. *sigh* Alastriona Subject: I'm new too To: WTOAdultChildren1 Date: Monday, January 17, 2011, 2:48 PM I am new to this group. I am female 60 yo. My mother is BP, and while I have been able to manage our relationship..or at least I think so, maybe I have been kidding myself. But she has recently been much more demanding, accusatory, raging, gaslighting, threats of self-harm and generally manipulative the closer my son & dtr in law get to the delivery of my first grandchild. She is 86, while my enabling father has been deceased for 6 years. He is now a 'saint' in her recollection, although never was when he was alive. First-I wonder, why I turned out so different from her. I am very empathetic, see the world in shades of grey. My two children, are mentally healthy and did not even know my mother was BP until they reached the age of 20-25. I told her in very clear terms when I was pregnant with my first that if she behaved badly she would have no contact with my child, later children. And she held it together. So my second question is, how is that possible? If this is mental illness, that she has no control over, how could she hold it together when around them. Granted, she still acted out with my father, around me and my husband and with her friends, but if she truly could not control herself, how did she manage this? Thanks in advance for any insight. talk2me2 ------------------------------------ **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new book The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells, available at www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write @.... DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST. To unsub from this list, send a blank email to WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe . Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline Parent, " and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to find) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 My BPD mom's mother came from a family where all the siblings lied, cheated each other, gaslighted each other, let small disagreements turn into mountains and, out of the 6 sibs, not any two were often on speaking terms. Most of them died with hatred between them. My grandmother was for sure a NPD, but most likely her entire family was BPD. Is it genetic or learned? IDK, but when it gets into a family dynamic, it nests in all the future generations unless something is done to stop it (i.e., functional parenting). My sister and I are both neurotics/codependent instead of BPDs. So far none of our children act out BPD behaviors, so maybe we broke the chain. As for your mom's escalated behavior, I may have some insight there because of my own situation. My mom is 78. The 1980's were the absolute worst time for her condition--she was always in witch mode and I think her hormone levels exacerbated her moods. Then we had relative peace from 1997-2007, she was mostly under control and not acting out. Since 2007, she is keeping secrets/lying again, making ridiculous demands and her interpretations of what is going on around her is all panic focused, judgmental and accusatory. She just had an MRI and will be seeing a neuropsych, because the MRI revealed some deterioration in her brain consistent with dementia. So sad, really, as I had hoped that she would end this world on good terms with those around her. But that is just not to be. I drove myself crazy for years trying to understand why/how she could appear normal to the world, but then behind closed doors she would come unglued. Funny how they feel safe enough in their own home to drop the acting, but the home is anything but safe for the other people who live there. They understand boundaries, they just ignore them unless someone makes it all very clear for them. You did, and she knew she either respect your edict or lose access to her grand children. Congratulations on being an functional parent--the best gift you could have given your children! > > I am new to this group. > I am female 60 yo. > My mother is BP, and while I have been able to manage our relationship..or at least I think so, maybe I have been kidding myself. > But she has recently been much more demanding, accusatory, raging, gaslighting, threats of self-harm and generally manipulative the closer my son & dtr in law get to the delivery of my first grandchild. > She is 86, while my enabling father has been deceased for 6 years. He is now a 'saint' in her recollection, although never was when he was alive. > > > First-I wonder, why I turned out so different from her. > I am very empathetic, see the world in shades of grey. My two children, are mentally healthy and did not even know my mother was BP until they reached the age of 20-25. I told her in very clear terms when I was pregnant with my first that if she behaved badly she would have no contact with my child, later children. And she held it together. > So my second question is, how is that possible? If this is mental illness, that she has no control over, how could she hold it together when around them. Granted, she still acted out with my father, around me and my husband and with her friends, but if she truly could not control herself, how did she manage this? > > Thanks in advance for any insight. > talk2me2 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 My BPD mom's mother came from a family where all the siblings lied, cheated each other, gaslighted each other, let small disagreements turn into mountains and, out of the 6 sibs, not any two were often on speaking terms. Most of them died with hatred between them. My grandmother was for sure a NPD, but most likely her entire family was BPD. Is it genetic or learned? IDK, but when it gets into a family dynamic, it nests in all the future generations unless something is done to stop it (i.e., functional parenting). My sister and I are both neurotics/codependent instead of BPDs. So far none of our children act out BPD behaviors, so maybe we broke the chain. As for your mom's escalated behavior, I may have some insight there because of my own situation. My mom is 78. The 1980's were the absolute worst time for her condition--she was always in witch mode and I think her hormone levels exacerbated her moods. Then we had relative peace from 1997-2007, she was mostly under control and not acting out. Since 2007, she is keeping secrets/lying again, making ridiculous demands and her interpretations of what is going on around her is all panic focused, judgmental and accusatory. She just had an MRI and will be seeing a neuropsych, because the MRI revealed some deterioration in her brain consistent with dementia. So sad, really, as I had hoped that she would end this world on good terms with those around her. But that is just not to be. I drove myself crazy for years trying to understand why/how she could appear normal to the world, but then behind closed doors she would come unglued. Funny how they feel safe enough in their own home to drop the acting, but the home is anything but safe for the other people who live there. They understand boundaries, they just ignore them unless someone makes it all very clear for them. You did, and she knew she either respect your edict or lose access to her grand children. Congratulations on being an functional parent--the best gift you could have given your children! > > I am new to this group. > I am female 60 yo. > My mother is BP, and while I have been able to manage our relationship..or at least I think so, maybe I have been kidding myself. > But she has recently been much more demanding, accusatory, raging, gaslighting, threats of self-harm and generally manipulative the closer my son & dtr in law get to the delivery of my first grandchild. > She is 86, while my enabling father has been deceased for 6 years. He is now a 'saint' in her recollection, although never was when he was alive. > > > First-I wonder, why I turned out so different from her. > I am very empathetic, see the world in shades of grey. My two children, are mentally healthy and did not even know my mother was BP until they reached the age of 20-25. I told her in very clear terms when I was pregnant with my first that if she behaved badly she would have no contact with my child, later children. And she held it together. > So my second question is, how is that possible? If this is mental illness, that she has no control over, how could she hold it together when around them. Granted, she still acted out with my father, around me and my husband and with her friends, but if she truly could not control herself, how did she manage this? > > Thanks in advance for any insight. > talk2me2 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.