Re: Considering going NC- needing input, thoughts

January 27, 2011

Geez--consistently overstepping boundaries...and so much of it sounds so

familiar---my dad is BPD with NPD, or maybe just narcissistic

tendencies...but geez, all the swearing and putting things on you to make it

right...

Basically, you have EVERY right to be NC. You don't owe her anything,

allegiance, money, food, etc. You were right to have the police check on her

because of her suicidal threats. She can stay wrapped up in herself, but

take care of YOU and your husband and your children first. Your marriage is

more important than trying to make her life better because she blames you

for her broken marriage.

You can go NC all at once, or you could step back slowly, going through LC

first. How you go about it is up to you, but I'm sure others have good

advice on how to go about that, too. But remember, first and foremost, your

responsibility lies with the family you've made with your husband and

children, not to your family of origin, who's nutty as hell.

Holly

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 2:39 AM, blairkoch@... wrote:

>

> So-

>

> Long story short, my mother is BPD with narcissistic tendencies. She's

> always been this way but it hasn't been until the last couple of years that

> myself, twin sister and older sister have been able to pinpoint it.

>

> When I was 15, my stepfather molested me. I'm not minimizing the situation

> but, unlike many victims who live with years of abuse- " it " only happened to

> me twice.

>

> I know that what he did was terribly wrong but my mother and his

> relationship wasn't good- sexually. Of course, she would fill me in with the

> details. We grew up with the message that 'any hole will do,' 'sex is dirty

> and always bad, even when you're married sex is only to meet a man's needs

> and to portray power over a woman.'

>

> when my sisters and I became teenagers we weren't allowed to date, we

> weren't allowed to go out with friends, go to the movies, have friends over,

> etc. We weren't allowed to wear makeup or shave(when I brought up that I

> needed to shave (badly) she snidely remarked 'why, are you ready to start

> fucking boys. I guess you need to douche, too.' I didn't know what she was

> talking about. She dressed all of us like paupers- and weren't poor but we

> were forced to wear old, hand-me-down clothing that was always way too big

> on us- then she'd comment about how fat we looked.

>

> Here recently, I tried to tell her how uncomfortable I was, as a child, to

> have to hear about her and my step-father sex life (on the RARE occassion

> they had sex) she'd tell me all about his semen running down her leg after

> they had sex- when I brought it up and said it was too much information for

> a child (and a daughter, period) she responded with " Well, I thought I could

> talk to you as a mature adult. I guess you weren't mature and still aren't.

> If you'd rather: I'll talk to you like a child. " (I'm nearly 30 years old!)

>

> After the abuse, my mother confided in me that she felt like I was " the

> other woman. "

>

> While I knew it wasn't my fault, I've only realized now- nearly 15 years

> later-that her statement about me being the other women placed me in a

> terrible situation: living every day to serve her and prove that I was on

> her side. This fed her need to have a submissive underling perfectly and I

> became her fiercest defender.

>

> Instead of heading to law school (I'd already been accepted into several

> prestigious pre-law programs in Washington D.C. and Stanford) but my mom

> never told me about the programs and refused to let me go- I only recently

> found out after she gave me misc. stuff from my school years and the

> acceptance letters were kept) Instead of me and my sisters being let go to

> continue life after high school she bemoaned that she was no longer needed

> and had she known we would just " leave her anyway " she wouldn't have had

> children.

>

> Not surprisingly-At 17, looking for acceptance and having sex on my terms I

> got pregnant (luckily, my marriage has been blessed and we've been together

> since and have a (somewhat) happy family- even having another son.He's been

> extremely patient with this process but it has added some distress- added to

> the fact that my mother constantly berates me to divorce him and move in

> with her)

>

> After the pregnancy, my mom held me hostage. Not only did I ruin her life

> by her marriage (which was never healthy) crumbling because of what happened

> now I was pregnant " AND HOW COULD I DO THAT TO HER???? "

> So my burden was even greater.(I felt ashamed for getting pregnant. Here I

> was- within the top five students of my graduating class, a National Honor

> Society member, etc.While I was a teen mom I don't recommend it) Anyway, she

> refused to let me move out-even though I had been able to graduate high

> school early and had enrolled in community college. Although living with her

> my husband supported me and was paying all of my living expenses, basically

> rent to my mom, and my food, clothing, medical care, etc., At 7 months

> pregnant, we were engaged I moved out. That was met with more drama and an

> even greater demand for continuing penance to her. Even though once the

> pregnancy was announced and " I was no longer her f-ing problem " she

> illegally claimed me on her tax return for YEARS- even after I got married-

> because " I had to realize that since HER husband was gone- she needed the

> few extra hundred dollars " (God forbid she get a job) and denied my family

> the thousand of dollars it would have saved us. She forced us to buy a car

> from her- because she had me believing that no one would give me- a loser

> teen mom- a loan for a car and she was soooo generous- even though the car

> cost us several thousand dollars more than it was worth.Again, not only did

> we owe her for the car- we owed her for her allowing us to buy it. She did

> us another " favor " a few years later by forcing us into purchasing a piece

> of property she had- I didn't want it but she went to the county and filed

> the paperwork indicating she was " gifting it " to us and then informing me

> that it was my f-ing problem and that I owed her- this time for nearly twice

> what the property was worth. This act was again met with more demands- if

> she needed something we owed it to her, because jeeze- now I've caused her

> to lose her husband and her private property.

>

> My selfworth was so poor and I felt bad for my mom. She had been a

> stay-at-home mom (never let us forget it, that she had NO job skills because

> she was raising US- so again, we owe her) that I let her control me. I also

> (wrongly) stopped my husband from sticking up for us. I always thought- and

> I think many can relate- that if I went along with her craziness that one

> day she would be happy and I would be redeemed. I would be the good daughter

> I was trained to be and allowed to fly free-like a healthy adult should.

>

> My older sister flew the coup early on, meeting someone online and moving

> back east to visit- she never returned. I don't blame her.

>

> My twin sister's first husband entered the military and she left.

> Each time, my mom would go into a crazy tailspin.

>

> Although these milestones should be happy they weren't. High school

> graduations, proms- even our weddings were cast in her shadow.

>

> Growing up, she broke all of my older sisters prized ceramic and keepsake

> rabbit collection because she went out with our biological father for

> easter. Instead of apologizing- it was my sister's fault- because: " How

> could YOU DO THAT TO ME??? "

>

> For years, I was a slave for her. I did her grocery shopping, took her

> places and was her primary social contact.I forced my husband and family to

> spend every extra moment we had with her, because I felt guilty. Every year,

> when my husband got a week vacation it was spent fixing things for her-

> because we owed her. He got HER daughter pregnant and of course- redemption

> is earned by being controlled- like a carrot on the stick. You do everything

> asked but never get closer to the carrot- the prize-the freedom. The

> acknowledgment that we are responsible adults.

>

> I helped her file her taxes, insurance paperwork job interviews, resumes

> and cover letters. When she moved out from the home we grew up in- she

> blamed me for her " having to move " she threw a vacuum cleaner at me (my son

> still remembers that) because 'she couldn't get any help with the moving'

> even though I packed almost everything up and my husband arranged for and

> paid for a van and lined up his friends to do the heavy lifting. What she

> did do during her move was order us to load stuff she suddenly didn't want-

> everything from furniture to clothing and blankets, books, our childhood

> memorabilia- to be donated. Now, when she looks for something that she gave

> away she accuses me stealing it.

>

> Of course, there were things too valuable to give away, that she didn't

> have room for- a fenced dog run, riding lawn mower and misc. lawn care items

> and some tools that I told her I didn't want but she insisted I take. Now,

> of course, I owe her because of this " generosity "

>

> Even married, it took six years for my husband and family to be able to go

> out for the afternoon without my feeling guilty or worried that she would be

> upset for not knowing where I was going- or asking permission beforehand.

> Not a dinner out would go unnoticed and I always got the riot act- what

> about her? what about her life, she's stuck at home doing NOTHING and we

> can't think of her! How dare us!

>

> A few years ago my family decided to move out of state. My husband had a

> great job, benefits and I enrolled in the university in the city. When my

> mom and grandparents dropped me and my son (3-years-old at the time) off at

> the airport she wouldn't even get out of the car or say good by. 'a fucking

> goodbye is a fucking goodbye " was as good as it got.

> The entire few months we were gone she called and sobbed on the phone for

> HOURS, everyday, about how we were only leaving because we were selfish and

> wanted money. One day, I received a card that was clearly meant for star

> crossed and separated lovers. She sent it to me- to illustrate how much she

> missed me! It was disgusting. She even tried talking me into getting a full

> time job so I could pay her to watch our son- even though I was lucky to not

> have had to work at the time.

> After my grandparents suffered many health issues we decided to move back-

> because my mom wouldn't take care of her parents. " I just have so much of my

> own life, " she would say- even though her life consisted of working part

> time and spending the rest of the day with her feet up, drinking coffee,

> smoking ciggs and talking on the phone.

>

> Moving back was the worst thing-ever.

>

> The past six months has been the final straw. For Thanksgiving I cooked the

> entire dinner and then packed it into her house- 2 miles away- because she

> didn't feel like leaving her home. And then she whined because we didn't

> bring our own plates- because it would cost her 50 cents in dish soap. She

> couldn't even offer drinks- we had to bring that too! And we had to leave

> her ample leftovers because she 'doesn't have money'- remember- I caused her

> husband to leave her and she doesn't have any money because of it.

>

> It was mid-November that I took a job, fulltime at the newspaper I've

> written for for nearly 6 years. That's really what set her off. I was no

> longer at her beck and call. Even though I was working at home- my time was

> never respected. She called 6-10 times a day and then bitch when I'd say I

> have to get to work. I thought actually having to go to the office would

> create some natural boundaries- she doesn't like that!

>

> After the first month I worked 60+ hour weeks with training and finding my

> groove and during that time my husband was out of town with his job for two

> weeks. Add in the holidays and we were dead beat tired.

>

> Freelancing, I didn't get more than a day off every two weeks so at

> Christmastime, we decided to go skiing. My husband pulled his back and we

> had to postpone our ski trip. On the Sunday we were going to go- we ended up

> getting going too late and decided to spend the day, at home, just our

> family.

>

> Well, mom wasn't about to let that happen. She called me 4 times, before

> noon, to remind me that my husband had promised he would cut her some fire

> wood. Her pile was running low. I told her that we would still be in to do

> the chore- and he did tell her he would and is a man of his word- but that

> it wouldn't be that day because we were spending a quiet day at home. The

> first such day we've been able to have in YEARS.

>

> Instead of understanding, like a normal parent, that we need our family

> time and I was stressed with the new job and the holidays- she blew up. You

> know how nadas get the voice, twisting every word until your insides are

> knotted up and you cave, just to cut your losses and move on -she informed

> me 'to enjoy my fucking day with my family. I guess I'll just have to stay

> home, alone, freezing. I guess I'll just have to turn my heater on. You may

> have money to burn but I don't have money but I guess I'll have to turn my

> heater on-there goes ALL my money. "

>

> I thought: fuck it: we'll go in, cut her fire wood and come home. Our kids

> decided they'd stay home and play their new video games they got for

> Christmas and we went in.

>

> Well, she was pleased as punch we came in but once she realized that I

> hadn't come in to visit- that I was helping my man move the wood- because

> his back still hurt- she got PISSED. She came out while I was sweeping off

> her porch of wood shavings and told me " I'm done with you. I'm fucking done.

> Get off my fucking property and go home. I'm done, had it with you and your

> attitude. "

>

> We shrugged it off and went home.

>

> Next came New Year's Eve- I hadn't called and neither had she. A whole

> blissful week of no contact.

> On New Year's Day she called all three of us kids and informed us to have a

> happy f-ing new year, that she was tired of our crap and that this was going

> to be HER YEAR. Her message informed me that, after all I've done for you-

> given you- and you can't do the right thing without having an

> attitude...yada, yada, yada.

>

> We all ignored it.

>

> Then, the suicide threats started. This went on for over a week.My sisters

> called the local 911 and police were sent to her house multiple times for

> welfare checks- she was " fine " and they wouldn't commit her.

>

> Before she exploded over the fire-wood chopping incident she watched my

> younger son a few times a week but once she snapped and started getting very

> hateful. Taking her violent behavior in the past, I informed her that the

> children would not be placed in the middle until she had her anger under

> control and got help. My twin sister, who lives locally, gave her the same

> mandate.

>

> To get back at me- she threatened to call Child Protective Services- not

> because my children are in danger but to hurt me in response to her having

> the police check in.

>

> She's made comments like " She'll have to suffer the consequences of keeping

> the children from me, " and it chilled me to the bone.

>

> Now that her cycle seems to have run its course, this time, she's called

> and left a few messages and emails. She's claiming that she's stepping out

> of the " cycle of abuse " me and my sisters are supposedly putting her in.

> She's also begging to see my youngest son. (my oldest doesn't really want to

> put up with her shit) so he hasn't been mentioned.

>

> She's now saying " I've said I'm sorry and there's nothing I can do. It's

> now in your control. Only you have the power for us to have a normal

> mother/daughter relationship. That's what I've wanted all along, but it's up

> to you. "

>

> I suggested a group counseling session but she's refused (although she says

> she's seeing one and that this professional told her that her emotions are

> validated and it sounds like we're manipulating her!) She " doesn't have to

> disclose to us who her counselor is because this is HER journey' and I doubt

> a counselor exists.

>

> So: are my feelings justified. I'm scared to death that she'll take off

> with my son and disappear but on the other hand, feel maybe I'm being

> paranoid and should try to be understanding of her mental illness....

>

> I need some input, quickly.

>

> I know that I need to focus on getting myself healthy. My nerves are shot

> and I just keep gaining weight but I don't know what to do about my mom.

>

> Sorry my post is so long, it's one of the first such posting I've made here

> and I really need some reassurance.

>

> Thank you!

>

January 27, 2011

Wow - that's horrifying. And yet I can imagine my own nada doing almost

every single one of those things.

I would absolutely go NC. I would also do whatever I could to protect my

kids. I would notify the school to keep the kids away from her immediately.

Can you move? Or is that impossible. Witness protection program!

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 5:28 AM, Holly Byers

wrote:

> Geez--consistently overstepping boundaries...and so much of it sounds so

> familiar---my dad is BPD with NPD, or maybe just narcissistic

> tendencies...but geez, all the swearing and putting things on you to make

> it

> right...

>

> Basically, you have EVERY right to be NC. You don't owe her anything,

> allegiance, money, food, etc. You were right to have the police check on

> her

> because of her suicidal threats. She can stay wrapped up in herself, but

> take care of YOU and your husband and your children first. Your marriage is

> more important than trying to make her life better because she blames you

> for her broken marriage.

>

> You can go NC all at once, or you could step back slowly, going through LC

> first. How you go about it is up to you, but I'm sure others have good

> advice on how to go about that, too. But remember, first and foremost, your

> responsibility lies with the family you've made with your husband and

> children, not to your family of origin, who's nutty as hell.

>

> Holly

>

> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 2:39 AM, blairkoch@... <blairkoch@...

> >wrote:

>

> >

> > So-

> >

> > Long story short, my mother is BPD with narcissistic tendencies. She's

> > always been this way but it hasn't been until the last couple of years

> that

> > myself, twin sister and older sister have been able to pinpoint it.

> >

> > When I was 15, my stepfather molested me. I'm not minimizing the

> situation

> > but, unlike many victims who live with years of abuse- " it " only happened

> to

> > me twice.

> >

> > I know that what he did was terribly wrong but my mother and his

> > relationship wasn't good- sexually. Of course, she would fill me in with

> the

> > details. We grew up with the message that 'any hole will do,' 'sex is

> dirty

> > and always bad, even when you're married sex is only to meet a man's

> needs

> > and to portray power over a woman.'

> >

> > when my sisters and I became teenagers we weren't allowed to date, we

> > weren't allowed to go out with friends, go to the movies, have friends

> over,

> > etc. We weren't allowed to wear makeup or shave(when I brought up that I

> > needed to shave (badly) she snidely remarked 'why, are you ready to start

> > fucking boys. I guess you need to douche, too.' I didn't know what she

> was

> > talking about. She dressed all of us like paupers- and weren't poor but

> we

> > were forced to wear old, hand-me-down clothing that was always way too

> big

> > on us- then she'd comment about how fat we looked.

> >

> > Here recently, I tried to tell her how uncomfortable I was, as a child,

> to

> > have to hear about her and my step-father sex life (on the RARE occassion

> > they had sex) she'd tell me all about his semen running down her leg

> after

> > they had sex- when I brought it up and said it was too much information

> for

> > a child (and a daughter, period) she responded with " Well, I thought I

> could

> > talk to you as a mature adult. I guess you weren't mature and still

> aren't.

> > If you'd rather: I'll talk to you like a child. " (I'm nearly 30 years

> old!)

> >

> > After the abuse, my mother confided in me that she felt like I was " the

> > other woman. "

> >

> > While I knew it wasn't my fault, I've only realized now- nearly 15 years

> > later-that her statement about me being the other women placed me in a

> > terrible situation: living every day to serve her and prove that I was on

> > her side. This fed her need to have a submissive underling perfectly and

> I

> > became her fiercest defender.

> >

> > Instead of heading to law school (I'd already been accepted into several

> > prestigious pre-law programs in Washington D.C. and Stanford) but my mom

> > never told me about the programs and refused to let me go- I only

> recently

> > found out after she gave me misc. stuff from my school years and the

> > acceptance letters were kept) Instead of me and my sisters being let go

> to

> > continue life after high school she bemoaned that she was no longer

> needed

> > and had she known we would just " leave her anyway " she wouldn't have had

> > children.

> >

> > Not surprisingly-At 17, looking for acceptance and having sex on my terms

> I

> > got pregnant (luckily, my marriage has been blessed and we've been

> together

> > since and have a (somewhat) happy family- even having another son.He's

> been

> > extremely patient with this process but it has added some distress- added

> to

> > the fact that my mother constantly berates me to divorce him and move in

> > with her)

> >

> > After the pregnancy, my mom held me hostage. Not only did I ruin her life

> > by her marriage (which was never healthy) crumbling because of what

> happened

> > now I was pregnant " AND HOW COULD I DO THAT TO HER???? "

> > So my burden was even greater.(I felt ashamed for getting pregnant. Here

> I

> > was- within the top five students of my graduating class, a National

> Honor

> > Society member, etc.While I was a teen mom I don't recommend it) Anyway,

> she

> > refused to let me move out-even though I had been able to graduate high

> > school early and had enrolled in community college. Although living with

> her

> > my husband supported me and was paying all of my living expenses,

> basically

> > rent to my mom, and my food, clothing, medical care, etc., At 7 months

> > pregnant, we were engaged I moved out. That was met with more drama and

> an

> > even greater demand for continuing penance to her. Even though once the

> > pregnancy was announced and " I was no longer her f-ing problem " she

> > illegally claimed me on her tax return for YEARS- even after I got

> married-

> > because " I had to realize that since HER husband was gone- she needed the

> > few extra hundred dollars " (God forbid she get a job) and denied my

> family

> > the thousand of dollars it would have saved us. She forced us to buy a

> car

> > from her- because she had me believing that no one would give me- a loser

> > teen mom- a loan for a car and she was soooo generous- even though the

> car

> > cost us several thousand dollars more than it was worth.Again, not only

> did

> > we owe her for the car- we owed her for her allowing us to buy it. She

> did

> > us another " favor " a few years later by forcing us into purchasing a

> piece

> > of property she had- I didn't want it but she went to the county and

> filed

> > the paperwork indicating she was " gifting it " to us and then informing me

> > that it was my f-ing problem and that I owed her- this time for nearly

> twice

> > what the property was worth. This act was again met with more demands- if

> > she needed something we owed it to her, because jeeze- now I've caused

> her

> > to lose her husband and her private property.

> >

> > My selfworth was so poor and I felt bad for my mom. She had been a

> > stay-at-home mom (never let us forget it, that she had NO job skills

> because

> > she was raising US- so again, we owe her) that I let her control me. I

> also

> > (wrongly) stopped my husband from sticking up for us. I always thought-

> and

> > I think many can relate- that if I went along with her craziness that one

> > day she would be happy and I would be redeemed. I would be the good

> daughter

> > I was trained to be and allowed to fly free-like a healthy adult should.

> >

> > My older sister flew the coup early on, meeting someone online and moving

> > back east to visit- she never returned. I don't blame her.

> >

> > My twin sister's first husband entered the military and she left.

> > Each time, my mom would go into a crazy tailspin.

> >

> > Although these milestones should be happy they weren't. High school

> > graduations, proms- even our weddings were cast in her shadow.

> >

> > Growing up, she broke all of my older sisters prized ceramic and keepsake

> > rabbit collection because she went out with our biological father for

> > easter. Instead of apologizing- it was my sister's fault- because: " How

> > could YOU DO THAT TO ME??? "

> >

> > For years, I was a slave for her. I did her grocery shopping, took her

> > places and was her primary social contact.I forced my husband and family

> to

> > spend every extra moment we had with her, because I felt guilty. Every

> year,

> > when my husband got a week vacation it was spent fixing things for her-

> > because we owed her. He got HER daughter pregnant and of course-

> redemption

> > is earned by being controlled- like a carrot on the stick. You do

> everything

> > asked but never get closer to the carrot- the prize-the freedom. The

> > acknowledgment that we are responsible adults.

> >

> > I helped her file her taxes, insurance paperwork job interviews, resumes

> > and cover letters. When she moved out from the home we grew up in- she

> > blamed me for her " having to move " she threw a vacuum cleaner at me (my

> son

> > still remembers that) because 'she couldn't get any help with the moving'

> > even though I packed almost everything up and my husband arranged for and

> > paid for a van and lined up his friends to do the heavy lifting. What she

> > did do during her move was order us to load stuff she suddenly didn't

> want-

> > everything from furniture to clothing and blankets, books, our childhood

> > memorabilia- to be donated. Now, when she looks for something that she

> gave

> > away she accuses me stealing it.

> >

> > Of course, there were things too valuable to give away, that she didn't

> > have room for- a fenced dog run, riding lawn mower and misc. lawn care

> items

> > and some tools that I told her I didn't want but she insisted I take.

> Now,

> > of course, I owe her because of this " generosity "

> >

> > Even married, it took six years for my husband and family to be able to

> go

> > out for the afternoon without my feeling guilty or worried that she would

> be

> > upset for not knowing where I was going- or asking permission beforehand.

> > Not a dinner out would go unnoticed and I always got the riot act- what

> > about her? what about her life, she's stuck at home doing NOTHING and we

> > can't think of her! How dare us!

> >

> > A few years ago my family decided to move out of state. My husband had a

> > great job, benefits and I enrolled in the university in the city. When my

> > mom and grandparents dropped me and my son (3-years-old at the time) off

> at

> > the airport she wouldn't even get out of the car or say good by. 'a

> fucking

> > goodbye is a fucking goodbye " was as good as it got.

> > The entire few months we were gone she called and sobbed on the phone for

> > HOURS, everyday, about how we were only leaving because we were selfish

> and

> > wanted money. One day, I received a card that was clearly meant for star

> > crossed and separated lovers. She sent it to me- to illustrate how much

> she

> > missed me! It was disgusting. She even tried talking me into getting a

> full

> > time job so I could pay her to watch our son- even though I was lucky to

> not

> > have had to work at the time.

> > After my grandparents suffered many health issues we decided to move

> back-

> > because my mom wouldn't take care of her parents. " I just have so much of

> my

> > own life, " she would say- even though her life consisted of working part

> > time and spending the rest of the day with her feet up, drinking coffee,

> > smoking ciggs and talking on the phone.

> >

> > Moving back was the worst thing-ever.

> >

> > The past six months has been the final straw. For Thanksgiving I cooked

> the

> > entire dinner and then packed it into her house- 2 miles away- because

> she

> > didn't feel like leaving her home. And then she whined because we didn't

> > bring our own plates- because it would cost her 50 cents in dish soap.

> She

> > couldn't even offer drinks- we had to bring that too! And we had to leave

> > her ample leftovers because she 'doesn't have money'- remember- I caused

> her

> > husband to leave her and she doesn't have any money because of it.

> >

> > It was mid-November that I took a job, fulltime at the newspaper I've

> > written for for nearly 6 years. That's really what set her off. I was no

> > longer at her beck and call. Even though I was working at home- my time

> was

> > never respected. She called 6-10 times a day and then bitch when I'd say

> I

> > have to get to work. I thought actually having to go to the office would

> > create some natural boundaries- she doesn't like that!

> >

> > After the first month I worked 60+ hour weeks with training and finding

> my

> > groove and during that time my husband was out of town with his job for

> two

> > weeks. Add in the holidays and we were dead beat tired.

> >

> > Freelancing, I didn't get more than a day off every two weeks so at

> > Christmastime, we decided to go skiing. My husband pulled his back and we

> > had to postpone our ski trip. On the Sunday we were going to go- we ended

> up

> > getting going too late and decided to spend the day, at home, just our

> > family.

> >

> > Well, mom wasn't about to let that happen. She called me 4 times, before

> > noon, to remind me that my husband had promised he would cut her some

> fire

> > wood. Her pile was running low. I told her that we would still be in to

> do

> > the chore- and he did tell her he would and is a man of his word- but

> that

> > it wouldn't be that day because we were spending a quiet day at home. The

> > first such day we've been able to have in YEARS.

> >

> > Instead of understanding, like a normal parent, that we need our family

> > time and I was stressed with the new job and the holidays- she blew up.

> You

> > know how nadas get the voice, twisting every word until your insides are

> > knotted up and you cave, just to cut your losses and move on -she

> informed

> > me 'to enjoy my fucking day with my family. I guess I'll just have to

> stay

> > home, alone, freezing. I guess I'll just have to turn my heater on. You

> may

> > have money to burn but I don't have money but I guess I'll have to turn

> my

> > heater on-there goes ALL my money. "

> >

> > I thought: fuck it: we'll go in, cut her fire wood and come home. Our

> kids

> > decided they'd stay home and play their new video games they got for

> > Christmas and we went in.

> >

> > Well, she was pleased as punch we came in but once she realized that I

> > hadn't come in to visit- that I was helping my man move the wood- because

> > his back still hurt- she got PISSED. She came out while I was sweeping

> off

> > her porch of wood shavings and told me " I'm done with you. I'm fucking

> done.

> > Get off my fucking property and go home. I'm done, had it with you and

> your

> > attitude. "

> >

> > We shrugged it off and went home.

> >

> > Next came New Year's Eve- I hadn't called and neither had she. A whole

> > blissful week of no contact.

> > On New Year's Day she called all three of us kids and informed us to have

> a

> > happy f-ing new year, that she was tired of our crap and that this was

> going

> > to be HER YEAR. Her message informed me that, after all I've done for

> you-

> > given you- and you can't do the right thing without having an

> > attitude...yada, yada, yada.

> >

> > We all ignored it.

> >

> > Then, the suicide threats started. This went on for over a week.My

> sisters

> > called the local 911 and police were sent to her house multiple times for

> > welfare checks- she was " fine " and they wouldn't commit her.

> >

> > Before she exploded over the fire-wood chopping incident she watched my

> > younger son a few times a week but once she snapped and started getting

> very

> > hateful. Taking her violent behavior in the past, I informed her that the

> > children would not be placed in the middle until she had her anger under

> > control and got help. My twin sister, who lives locally, gave her the

> same

> > mandate.

> >

> > To get back at me- she threatened to call Child Protective Services- not

> > because my children are in danger but to hurt me in response to her

> having

> > the police check in.

> >

> > She's made comments like " She'll have to suffer the consequences of

> keeping

> > the children from me, " and it chilled me to the bone.

> >

> > Now that her cycle seems to have run its course, this time, she's called

> > and left a few messages and emails. She's claiming that she's stepping

> out

> > of the " cycle of abuse " me and my sisters are supposedly putting her in.

> > She's also begging to see my youngest son. (my oldest doesn't really want

> to

> > put up with her shit) so he hasn't been mentioned.

> >

> > She's now saying " I've said I'm sorry and there's nothing I can do. It's

> > now in your control. Only you have the power for us to have a normal

> > mother/daughter relationship. That's what I've wanted all along, but it's

> up

> > to you. "

> >

> > I suggested a group counseling session but she's refused (although she

> says

> > she's seeing one and that this professional told her that her emotions

> are

> > validated and it sounds like we're manipulating her!) She " doesn't have

> to

> > disclose to us who her counselor is because this is HER journey' and I

> doubt

> > a counselor exists.

> >

> > So: are my feelings justified. I'm scared to death that she'll take off

> > with my son and disappear but on the other hand, feel maybe I'm being

> > paranoid and should try to be understanding of her mental illness....

> >

> > I need some input, quickly.

> >

> > I know that I need to focus on getting myself healthy. My nerves are shot

> > and I just keep gaining weight but I don't know what to do about my mom.

> >

> > Sorry my post is so long, it's one of the first such posting I've made

> here

> > and I really need some reassurance.

> >

> > Thank you!

> >

>

January 27, 2011

Wow - that's horrifying. And yet I can imagine my own nada doing almost

every single one of those things.

I would absolutely go NC. I would also do whatever I could to protect my

kids. I would notify the school to keep the kids away from her immediately.

Can you move? Or is that impossible. Witness protection program!

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 5:28 AM, Holly Byers

wrote:

> Geez--consistently overstepping boundaries...and so much of it sounds so

> familiar---my dad is BPD with NPD, or maybe just narcissistic

> tendencies...but geez, all the swearing and putting things on you to make

> it

> right...

>

> Basically, you have EVERY right to be NC. You don't owe her anything,

> allegiance, money, food, etc. You were right to have the police check on

> her

> because of her suicidal threats. She can stay wrapped up in herself, but

> take care of YOU and your husband and your children first. Your marriage is

> more important than trying to make her life better because she blames you

> for her broken marriage.

>

> You can go NC all at once, or you could step back slowly, going through LC

> first. How you go about it is up to you, but I'm sure others have good

> advice on how to go about that, too. But remember, first and foremost, your

> responsibility lies with the family you've made with your husband and

> children, not to your family of origin, who's nutty as hell.

>

> Holly

>

> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 2:39 AM, blairkoch@... <blairkoch@...

> >wrote:

>

> >

> > So-

> >

> > Long story short, my mother is BPD with narcissistic tendencies. She's

> > always been this way but it hasn't been until the last couple of years

> that

> > myself, twin sister and older sister have been able to pinpoint it.

> >

> > When I was 15, my stepfather molested me. I'm not minimizing the

> situation

> > but, unlike many victims who live with years of abuse- " it " only happened

> to

> > me twice.

> >

> > I know that what he did was terribly wrong but my mother and his

> > relationship wasn't good- sexually. Of course, she would fill me in with

> the

> > details. We grew up with the message that 'any hole will do,' 'sex is

> dirty

> > and always bad, even when you're married sex is only to meet a man's

> needs

> > and to portray power over a woman.'

> >

> > when my sisters and I became teenagers we weren't allowed to date, we

> > weren't allowed to go out with friends, go to the movies, have friends

> over,

> > etc. We weren't allowed to wear makeup or shave(when I brought up that I

> > needed to shave (badly) she snidely remarked 'why, are you ready to start

> > fucking boys. I guess you need to douche, too.' I didn't know what she

> was

> > talking about. She dressed all of us like paupers- and weren't poor but

> we

> > were forced to wear old, hand-me-down clothing that was always way too

> big

> > on us- then she'd comment about how fat we looked.

> >

> > Here recently, I tried to tell her how uncomfortable I was, as a child,

> to

> > have to hear about her and my step-father sex life (on the RARE occassion

> > they had sex) she'd tell me all about his semen running down her leg

> after

> > they had sex- when I brought it up and said it was too much information

> for

> > a child (and a daughter, period) she responded with " Well, I thought I

> could

> > talk to you as a mature adult. I guess you weren't mature and still

> aren't.

> > If you'd rather: I'll talk to you like a child. " (I'm nearly 30 years

> old!)

> >

> > After the abuse, my mother confided in me that she felt like I was " the

> > other woman. "

> >

> > While I knew it wasn't my fault, I've only realized now- nearly 15 years

> > later-that her statement about me being the other women placed me in a

> > terrible situation: living every day to serve her and prove that I was on

> > her side. This fed her need to have a submissive underling perfectly and

> I

> > became her fiercest defender.

> >

> > Instead of heading to law school (I'd already been accepted into several

> > prestigious pre-law programs in Washington D.C. and Stanford) but my mom

> > never told me about the programs and refused to let me go- I only

> recently

> > found out after she gave me misc. stuff from my school years and the

> > acceptance letters were kept) Instead of me and my sisters being let go

> to

> > continue life after high school she bemoaned that she was no longer

> needed

> > and had she known we would just " leave her anyway " she wouldn't have had

> > children.

> >

> > Not surprisingly-At 17, looking for acceptance and having sex on my terms

> I

> > got pregnant (luckily, my marriage has been blessed and we've been

> together

> > since and have a (somewhat) happy family- even having another son.He's

> been

> > extremely patient with this process but it has added some distress- added

> to

> > the fact that my mother constantly berates me to divorce him and move in

> > with her)

> >

> > After the pregnancy, my mom held me hostage. Not only did I ruin her life

> > by her marriage (which was never healthy) crumbling because of what

> happened

> > now I was pregnant " AND HOW COULD I DO THAT TO HER???? "

> > So my burden was even greater.(I felt ashamed for getting pregnant. Here

> I

> > was- within the top five students of my graduating class, a National

> Honor

> > Society member, etc.While I was a teen mom I don't recommend it) Anyway,

> she

> > refused to let me move out-even though I had been able to graduate high

> > school early and had enrolled in community college. Although living with

> her

> > my husband supported me and was paying all of my living expenses,

> basically

> > rent to my mom, and my food, clothing, medical care, etc., At 7 months

> > pregnant, we were engaged I moved out. That was met with more drama and

> an

> > even greater demand for continuing penance to her. Even though once the

> > pregnancy was announced and " I was no longer her f-ing problem " she

> > illegally claimed me on her tax return for YEARS- even after I got

> married-

> > because " I had to realize that since HER husband was gone- she needed the

> > few extra hundred dollars " (God forbid she get a job) and denied my

> family

> > the thousand of dollars it would have saved us. She forced us to buy a

> car

> > from her- because she had me believing that no one would give me- a loser

> > teen mom- a loan for a car and she was soooo generous- even though the

> car

> > cost us several thousand dollars more than it was worth.Again, not only

> did

> > we owe her for the car- we owed her for her allowing us to buy it. She

> did

> > us another " favor " a few years later by forcing us into purchasing a

> piece

> > of property she had- I didn't want it but she went to the county and

> filed

> > the paperwork indicating she was " gifting it " to us and then informing me

> > that it was my f-ing problem and that I owed her- this time for nearly

> twice

> > what the property was worth. This act was again met with more demands- if

> > she needed something we owed it to her, because jeeze- now I've caused

> her

> > to lose her husband and her private property.

> >

> > My selfworth was so poor and I felt bad for my mom. She had been a

> > stay-at-home mom (never let us forget it, that she had NO job skills

> because

> > she was raising US- so again, we owe her) that I let her control me. I

> also

> > (wrongly) stopped my husband from sticking up for us. I always thought-

> and

> > I think many can relate- that if I went along with her craziness that one

> > day she would be happy and I would be redeemed. I would be the good

> daughter

> > I was trained to be and allowed to fly free-like a healthy adult should.

> >

> > My older sister flew the coup early on, meeting someone online and moving

> > back east to visit- she never returned. I don't blame her.

> >

> > My twin sister's first husband entered the military and she left.

> > Each time, my mom would go into a crazy tailspin.

> >

> > Although these milestones should be happy they weren't. High school

> > graduations, proms- even our weddings were cast in her shadow.

> >

> > Growing up, she broke all of my older sisters prized ceramic and keepsake

> > rabbit collection because she went out with our biological father for

> > easter. Instead of apologizing- it was my sister's fault- because: " How

> > could YOU DO THAT TO ME??? "

> >

> > For years, I was a slave for her. I did her grocery shopping, took her

> > places and was her primary social contact.I forced my husband and family

> to

> > spend every extra moment we had with her, because I felt guilty. Every

> year,

> > when my husband got a week vacation it was spent fixing things for her-

> > because we owed her. He got HER daughter pregnant and of course-

> redemption

> > is earned by being controlled- like a carrot on the stick. You do

> everything

> > asked but never get closer to the carrot- the prize-the freedom. The

> > acknowledgment that we are responsible adults.

> >

> > I helped her file her taxes, insurance paperwork job interviews, resumes

> > and cover letters. When she moved out from the home we grew up in- she

> > blamed me for her " having to move " she threw a vacuum cleaner at me (my

> son

> > still remembers that) because 'she couldn't get any help with the moving'

> > even though I packed almost everything up and my husband arranged for and

> > paid for a van and lined up his friends to do the heavy lifting. What she

> > did do during her move was order us to load stuff she suddenly didn't

> want-

> > everything from furniture to clothing and blankets, books, our childhood

> > memorabilia- to be donated. Now, when she looks for something that she

> gave

> > away she accuses me stealing it.

> >

> > Of course, there were things too valuable to give away, that she didn't

> > have room for- a fenced dog run, riding lawn mower and misc. lawn care

> items

> > and some tools that I told her I didn't want but she insisted I take.

> Now,

> > of course, I owe her because of this " generosity "

> >

> > Even married, it took six years for my husband and family to be able to

> go

> > out for the afternoon without my feeling guilty or worried that she would

> be

> > upset for not knowing where I was going- or asking permission beforehand.

> > Not a dinner out would go unnoticed and I always got the riot act- what

> > about her? what about her life, she's stuck at home doing NOTHING and we

> > can't think of her! How dare us!

> >

> > A few years ago my family decided to move out of state. My husband had a

> > great job, benefits and I enrolled in the university in the city. When my

> > mom and grandparents dropped me and my son (3-years-old at the time) off

> at

> > the airport she wouldn't even get out of the car or say good by. 'a

> fucking

> > goodbye is a fucking goodbye " was as good as it got.

> > The entire few months we were gone she called and sobbed on the phone for

> > HOURS, everyday, about how we were only leaving because we were selfish

> and

> > wanted money. One day, I received a card that was clearly meant for star

> > crossed and separated lovers. She sent it to me- to illustrate how much

> she

> > missed me! It was disgusting. She even tried talking me into getting a

> full

> > time job so I could pay her to watch our son- even though I was lucky to

> not

> > have had to work at the time.

> > After my grandparents suffered many health issues we decided to move

> back-

> > because my mom wouldn't take care of her parents. " I just have so much of

> my

> > own life, " she would say- even though her life consisted of working part

> > time and spending the rest of the day with her feet up, drinking coffee,

> > smoking ciggs and talking on the phone.

> >

> > Moving back was the worst thing-ever.

> >

> > The past six months has been the final straw. For Thanksgiving I cooked

> the

> > entire dinner and then packed it into her house- 2 miles away- because

> she

> > didn't feel like leaving her home. And then she whined because we didn't

> > bring our own plates- because it would cost her 50 cents in dish soap.

> She

> > couldn't even offer drinks- we had to bring that too! And we had to leave

> > her ample leftovers because she 'doesn't have money'- remember- I caused

> her

> > husband to leave her and she doesn't have any money because of it.

> >

> > It was mid-November that I took a job, fulltime at the newspaper I've

> > written for for nearly 6 years. That's really what set her off. I was no

> > longer at her beck and call. Even though I was working at home- my time

> was

> > never respected. She called 6-10 times a day and then bitch when I'd say

> I

> > have to get to work. I thought actually having to go to the office would

> > create some natural boundaries- she doesn't like that!

> >

> > After the first month I worked 60+ hour weeks with training and finding

> my

> > groove and during that time my husband was out of town with his job for

> two

> > weeks. Add in the holidays and we were dead beat tired.

> >

> > Freelancing, I didn't get more than a day off every two weeks so at

> > Christmastime, we decided to go skiing. My husband pulled his back and we

> > had to postpone our ski trip. On the Sunday we were going to go- we ended

> up

> > getting going too late and decided to spend the day, at home, just our

> > family.

> >

> > Well, mom wasn't about to let that happen. She called me 4 times, before

> > noon, to remind me that my husband had promised he would cut her some

> fire

> > wood. Her pile was running low. I told her that we would still be in to

> do

> > the chore- and he did tell her he would and is a man of his word- but

> that

> > it wouldn't be that day because we were spending a quiet day at home. The

> > first such day we've been able to have in YEARS.

> >

> > Instead of understanding, like a normal parent, that we need our family

> > time and I was stressed with the new job and the holidays- she blew up.

> You

> > know how nadas get the voice, twisting every word until your insides are

> > knotted up and you cave, just to cut your losses and move on -she

> informed

> > me 'to enjoy my fucking day with my family. I guess I'll just have to

> stay

> > home, alone, freezing. I guess I'll just have to turn my heater on. You

> may

> > have money to burn but I don't have money but I guess I'll have to turn

> my

> > heater on-there goes ALL my money. "

> >

> > I thought: fuck it: we'll go in, cut her fire wood and come home. Our

> kids

> > decided they'd stay home and play their new video games they got for

> > Christmas and we went in.

> >

> > Well, she was pleased as punch we came in but once she realized that I

> > hadn't come in to visit- that I was helping my man move the wood- because

> > his back still hurt- she got PISSED. She came out while I was sweeping

> off

> > her porch of wood shavings and told me " I'm done with you. I'm fucking

> done.

> > Get off my fucking property and go home. I'm done, had it with you and

> your

> > attitude. "

> >

> > We shrugged it off and went home.

> >

> > Next came New Year's Eve- I hadn't called and neither had she. A whole

> > blissful week of no contact.

> > On New Year's Day she called all three of us kids and informed us to have

> a

> > happy f-ing new year, that she was tired of our crap and that this was

> going

> > to be HER YEAR. Her message informed me that, after all I've done for

> you-

> > given you- and you can't do the right thing without having an

> > attitude...yada, yada, yada.

> >

> > We all ignored it.

> >

> > Then, the suicide threats started. This went on for over a week.My

> sisters

> > called the local 911 and police were sent to her house multiple times for

> > welfare checks- she was " fine " and they wouldn't commit her.

> >

> > Before she exploded over the fire-wood chopping incident she watched my

> > younger son a few times a week but once she snapped and started getting

> very

> > hateful. Taking her violent behavior in the past, I informed her that the

> > children would not be placed in the middle until she had her anger under

> > control and got help. My twin sister, who lives locally, gave her the

> same

> > mandate.

> >

> > To get back at me- she threatened to call Child Protective Services- not

> > because my children are in danger but to hurt me in response to her

> having

> > the police check in.

> >

> > She's made comments like " She'll have to suffer the consequences of

> keeping

> > the children from me, " and it chilled me to the bone.

> >

> > Now that her cycle seems to have run its course, this time, she's called

> > and left a few messages and emails. She's claiming that she's stepping

> out

> > of the " cycle of abuse " me and my sisters are supposedly putting her in.

> > She's also begging to see my youngest son. (my oldest doesn't really want

> to

> > put up with her shit) so he hasn't been mentioned.

> >

> > She's now saying " I've said I'm sorry and there's nothing I can do. It's

> > now in your control. Only you have the power for us to have a normal

> > mother/daughter relationship. That's what I've wanted all along, but it's

> up

> > to you. "

> >

> > I suggested a group counseling session but she's refused (although she

> says

> > she's seeing one and that this professional told her that her emotions

> are

> > validated and it sounds like we're manipulating her!) She " doesn't have

> to

> > disclose to us who her counselor is because this is HER journey' and I

> doubt

> > a counselor exists.

> >

> > So: are my feelings justified. I'm scared to death that she'll take off

> > with my son and disappear but on the other hand, feel maybe I'm being

> > paranoid and should try to be understanding of her mental illness....

> >

> > I need some input, quickly.

> >

> > I know that I need to focus on getting myself healthy. My nerves are shot

> > and I just keep gaining weight but I don't know what to do about my mom.

> >

> > Sorry my post is so long, it's one of the first such posting I've made

> here

> > and I really need some reassurance.

> >

> > Thank you!

> >

>

January 27, 2011

Hi Blair,

I'm so sorry for what your mother and stepfather put you and your sisters

through. No child deserves that kind of treatment.

This is just my own personal opinion for you to take or leave as it suits you,

but in my non-professional opinion its as though you were raised in a mini-cult;

your mother brainwashed you from birth to serve her, the cult-leader.

Your mother has been mistreating and exploiting you your whole life. You were

either her rival or a object she could use, and you were conditioned to obey

just to earn a tiny scrap of her approval. But the reality is that you are only

valuable to her as long as you meet her needs, otherwise you are discarded.

Your mother *is* dependent on you, but that's not the same as love.

In my opinion, nothing you describe has anything to do with love, on her part.

The more I read about the study of psychopathy, the more it seems to overlap

with the Cluster B disorders; the most chilling part is that those with

psychopathy are incapable of attaching (experiencing love) in a meaningful way

with other people. Although they are incapable of giving and receiving love in

the way that normal people are (other people's needs and feelings don't exist

for them) they are good mimics and can appear engaging and normal when it suits

them.

I hope you will seek therapy from a psychologist who is experienced treating the

adult survivors of child abuse. You have become trauma-bonded to your mother.

Trauma-bonding happens when a person who has complete power over you (like a

parent, or a kidnapper) alternates from being loving and kind to being your

tormentor. The switching back-and-forth from hurting you to rescuing you over

and over creates a trauma bond, and its like epoxy glue. Its a very unhealthy

bond.

Randi Kreger (who owns this list and wrote " Stop Walking On Eggshells " and other

books for those with a bpd person in their life) wrote that the children of

severely abusive parents seem to wind up either becoming totally enmeshed with

their abuser, or they run away fairly early. You and I both became enmeshed,

whereas our siblings broke away and escaped earlier.

If my nada and dad hadn't " dumped " me and moved away, I'd probably still be

enmeshed with nada.

My advice is to start reading up on trauma-bonding and co-dependency, and find a

therapist who specializes in treating the adult survivors of child abuse, who

can " deprogram " you from your cult-like attachment to someone who has never had

your best interest in her heart.

You have the right to a joyful, independent, self-actualized adult life, instead

of the semi-prison experience you've been having.

Eventually you may be able to care for your mother's needs from the safety of

emotional detachment from her and perhaps physical distance from her, utilizing

the safety of very low contact and strong boundaries.

But only, in my opinion, after a period of no contact at all so you can get

" deprogrammed " or " detoxed " from your unhealthy attachment to her.

Again, whether my advice resonates with you or not, I hope you will start

reading up and educating your self about borderline pd, trauma bonding and co

dependency, and I hope you will consider giving yourself the gift of seeking

therapy.

Nobody rescued you as a child, but you now have the power to rescue yourself.

" Degradation by someone who claims to love you is qualitatively different than

degradation by a stranger. "

- Ann Lawson, Ph.D.

" Trauma and Recovery " by Judith Herman

" Boundaries " by Cloud and Townsend

" Understanding The Borderline Mother " - Lawson

-Annie

>

> So-

>

> Long story short, my mother is BPD with narcissistic tendencies. She's always

been this way but it hasn't been until the last couple of years that myself,

twin sister and older sister have been able to pinpoint it.

>

> When I was 15, my stepfather molested me. I'm not minimizing the situation

but, unlike many victims who live with years of abuse- " it " only happened to me

twice.

>

> I know that what he did was terribly wrong but my mother and his relationship

wasn't good- sexually. Of course, she would fill me in with the details. We grew

up with the message that 'any hole will do,' 'sex is dirty and always bad, even

when you're married sex is only to meet a man's needs and to portray power over

a woman.'

>

> when my sisters and I became teenagers we weren't allowed to date, we weren't

allowed to go out with friends, go to the movies, have friends over, etc. We

weren't allowed to wear makeup or shave(when I brought up that I needed to shave

(badly) she snidely remarked 'why, are you ready to start fucking boys. I guess

you need to douche, too.' I didn't know what she was talking about. She dressed

all of us like paupers- and weren't poor but we were forced to wear old,

hand-me-down clothing that was always way too big on us- then she'd comment

about how fat we looked.

(edited for length)

January 27, 2011

Hi! I just read everything and have been through everything you are talking

about but just the details are a little different. I am 45 years old and I

struggled with wanting to be away from my Mom since I was about 16. For me just

like you the guilt kept me from going NC although my heart longed for it. I

even secretly wished for the day she died so I would finally be free. When I

was 30 and had my first baby she became even more present in my life because she

was trying to bond with my innocent child since I was a lost cause. Her calls

got more frequent and because the calls were always so negative and just her

bashing me the whole time I became like the dog " Pavlov " and every time I heard

the phone ring I would start to have a mild panic attack not even knowing who

was calling. I had developed social anxiety so bad that I couldn't leave my

house and was having more extreme panic attacks. Then on her last visit I

noticed she started to treat my then 6 and 7 year sons like she use to treat me.

I think because they were starting to have their own opinions and would tell her

No. When I saw this I became a Mama Lion, I may not have been able to stick up

for myself but there was no way in Hell I was going to let her do to my kids

what she had done to me.

I knew I was at the end of my rope and I had to get her out of my life. But,

how??? How do we honor our Parents the way the Bible says if disown them? How

do I tell people I have a Mom but we don't have communication with her with out

them thinking that is so weird, or something is wrong with me?

Well, I was just sick about it, in the biggest decision I ever had to make. I

can't live anymore with her in my life, she is destroying me (literally) and how

can I live with out her the GUILT will destroy me? So I stopped and dropped to

my knees, and I prayed and I prayed and I cried and I prayed and bawled and

prayed for 3 weeks straight. I almost did nothing else but pray for those 3

weeks. Asking God what do I do????? After 3 weeks and I don't know how

religious you are but God loves the number 3. I went to Church on the 3rd Sunday

and I needed to go to the bathroom and was about to get up and the pastor said

that todays talk was going to be about what to do about people in our lives that

bring us down and make us feel bad and do it to make themselves feel better.

WHAT??? I have never heard a pastor ever talk about this before. I KNEW that

the Pastors next words were straight from God's mouth to my ears. I knew he was

speaking to me and answering my prayers from the last 3 weeks. I did not go to

the bathroom and I sat on the edge of my seat with my mouth hanging open the

whole hour and a half. Ha ha! My Pastor said there are people in the world who

take pleasure in bringing others down, that belittle others to make themselves

feel better about themselves. These people live to cut others down and be

negative because it somehow gives them power and helps them feel less terrible

about themselves. He gave many examples. Then he said.... " God does not want

you to constantly put yourself in harms way " " God wants you to live a full and

happy life " " You can love someone and pray for someone but they do not have to

be in your life to do that " He said " if there is someone in your life, it

doesn't matter who it is, that is keeping you from growing to your full

potential, someone who makes you feel down and bad about yourself, someone who

belittles you and cuts you down to make themselves feel better " " someone who

keeps you from living the full happy life that God intended you to have " He

said.... " WALK AWAY! " " MOVE " " CHANGE YOUR PHONE NUMBER " " DON " T LOOK BACK "

If someone is keeping you from being your best then how can you do the things

God wants you to do in this world? Be a good wife and Mother, help others,

thrive and do great things for the world? If someone is keeping you down then

you can't live your life in a way that's pleasing to God. Yes I makes him sad

when he sees our Nadas and Fadas suffering with their mental illnesses, but I

think it makes him twice as sad to see it causing others around them to suffer

as much or more. Sometimes you have to walk away and save yourself otherwise

there are two lives that are lost and not just the one.

Now after I heard all this I was so excited...it was my answer and it came

straight from God. I knew then I could go NC and I did. That was 3.5 years

ago. The first year I did feel a ton of Guilt so much so that on certain days

of the year like holidays and her birthday I felt like I was in a dream, like I

was everything was surreal. That first year was the hardest thing I ever had to

do. But the good news is I kept praying and kept working towards complete NC,

no more e-mails no more sending her Christmas cards...NC! and now I can honestly

say that the last 2.5 years of my life have been the happiest in my entire

life!!!! I want to sing like a bird for joy!!!! This is so much better than

wishing her to die to be out of my life. I pray for her and ask God to heal

her, take care of her, forgive her help her find her way. But then i let it

go....I try to never think about her. I know I will see her again in Heaven one

day and then she and I will be able to have that relationship that just wasn't

possible here on earth. God will take care of your Nada........... You need to

do what's right for you and your husband and kids!!!!! You are going to be so

amazed at the woman you become over the next few years away from her. If we had

only gotten taken away from them when we were babies, we might even be First

Female President...Ha ha, I'm kidding but I sometimes wonder if I grew this much

over the last 3.5 years and it took me till 45 to be amazing, what my life would

or could have been like if I had a loving Mother instead.

The other thing....I so know what you mean by thinking the molestation thing

didn't really effect you that much because it only happened twice....well I

thought the exact same thing because my Grand Dad only molested me once.....Girl

you are going to have to deal with that someday too. One thing at a time and

even though you don't think it meant that much you have no idea what is does to

you even once. I think I didn't think it was a big deal because my mind didn't

let me really go there and I had my Nada to think about and that was just too

much to try to deal with both at the same time. Once you get your Mother out of

your life and start to heal you will probably find that issues are coming up in

your life about the molestation. I think it's a self defense thing that we

can't take on too much at one time. For me I had great sex before marriage but

for some reason after I got married I thought my husband was a pervert to want

to have sex with me and we have had many sex issues come up in our marriage from

about the age of 30 on up. Do yourself and your husband a favor and get therapy

for that as soon as your able, even if you think you don't need it!!!!

Good Luck!!!!

>

> So-

>

> Long story short, my mother is BPD with narcissistic tendencies. She's always

been this way but it hasn't been until the last couple of years that myself,

twin sister and older sister have been able to pinpoint it.

>

> When I was 15, my stepfather molested me. I'm not minimizing the situation

but, unlike many victims who live with years of abuse- " it " only happened to me

twice.

>

> I know that what he did was terribly wrong but my mother and his relationship

wasn't good- sexually. Of course, she would fill me in with the details. We grew

up with the message that 'any hole will do,' 'sex is dirty and always bad, even

when you're married sex is only to meet a man's needs and to portray power over

a woman.'

>

> when my sisters and I became teenagers we weren't allowed to date, we weren't

allowed to go out with friends, go to the movies, have friends over, etc. We

weren't allowed to wear makeup or shave(when I brought up that I needed to shave

(badly) she snidely remarked 'why, are you ready to start fucking boys. I guess

you need to douche, too.' I didn't know what she was talking about. She dressed

all of us like paupers- and weren't poor but we were forced to wear old,

hand-me-down clothing that was always way too big on us- then she'd comment

about how fat we looked.

>

> Here recently, I tried to tell her how uncomfortable I was, as a child, to

have to hear about her and my step-father sex life (on the RARE occassion they

had sex) she'd tell me all about his semen running down her leg after they had

sex- when I brought it up and said it was too much information for a child (and

a daughter, period) she responded with " Well, I thought I could talk to you as a

mature adult. I guess you weren't mature and still aren't. If you'd rather: I'll

talk to you like a child. " (I'm nearly 30 years old!)

>

> After the abuse, my mother confided in me that she felt like I was " the other

woman. "

>

> While I knew it wasn't my fault, I've only realized now- nearly 15 years

later-that her statement about me being the other women placed me in a terrible

situation: living every day to serve her and prove that I was on her side. This

fed her need to have a submissive underling perfectly and I became her fiercest

defender.

>

> Instead of heading to law school (I'd already been accepted into several

prestigious pre-law programs in Washington D.C. and Stanford) but my mom never

told me about the programs and refused to let me go- I only recently found out

after she gave me misc. stuff from my school years and the acceptance letters

were kept) Instead of me and my sisters being let go to continue life after high

school she bemoaned that she was no longer needed and had she known we would

just " leave her anyway " she wouldn't have had children.

>

> Not surprisingly-At 17, looking for acceptance and having sex on my terms I

got pregnant (luckily, my marriage has been blessed and we've been together

since and have a (somewhat) happy family- even having another son.He's been

extremely patient with this process but it has added some distress- added to the

fact that my mother constantly berates me to divorce him and move in with her)

>

> After the pregnancy, my mom held me hostage. Not only did I ruin her life by

her marriage (which was never healthy) crumbling because of what happened now I

was pregnant " AND HOW COULD I DO THAT TO HER???? "

> So my burden was even greater.(I felt ashamed for getting pregnant. Here I

was- within the top five students of my graduating class, a National Honor

Society member, etc.While I was a teen mom I don't recommend it) Anyway, she

refused to let me move out-even though I had been able to graduate high school

early and had enrolled in community college. Although living with her my husband

supported me and was paying all of my living expenses, basically rent to my mom,

and my food, clothing, medical care, etc., At 7 months pregnant, we were engaged

I moved out. That was met with more drama and an even greater demand for

continuing penance to her. Even though once the pregnancy was announced and " I

was no longer her f-ing problem " she illegally claimed me on her tax return for

YEARS- even after I got married- because " I had to realize that since HER

husband was gone- she needed the few extra hundred dollars " (God forbid she get

a job) and denied my family the thousand of dollars it would have saved us. She

forced us to buy a car from her- because she had me believing that no one would

give me- a loser teen mom- a loan for a car and she was soooo generous- even

though the car cost us several thousand dollars more than it was worth.Again,

not only did we owe her for the car- we owed her for her allowing us to buy it.

She did us another " favor " a few years later by forcing us into purchasing a

piece of property she had- I didn't want it but she went to the county and filed

the paperwork indicating she was " gifting it " to us and then informing me that

it was my f-ing problem and that I owed her- this time for nearly twice what the

property was worth. This act was again met with more demands- if she needed

something we owed it to her, because jeeze- now I've caused her to lose her

husband and her private property.

>

> My selfworth was so poor and I felt bad for my mom. She had been a

stay-at-home mom (never let us forget it, that she had NO job skills because she

was raising US- so again, we owe her) that I let her control me. I also

(wrongly) stopped my husband from sticking up for us. I always thought- and I

think many can relate- that if I went along with her craziness that one day she

would be happy and I would be redeemed. I would be the good daughter I was

trained to be and allowed to fly free-like a healthy adult should.

>

> My older sister flew the coup early on, meeting someone online and moving back

east to visit- she never returned. I don't blame her.

>

> My twin sister's first husband entered the military and she left.

> Each time, my mom would go into a crazy tailspin.

>

> Although these milestones should be happy they weren't. High school

graduations, proms- even our weddings were cast in her shadow.

>

> Growing up, she broke all of my older sisters prized ceramic and keepsake

rabbit collection because she went out with our biological father for easter.

Instead of apologizing- it was my sister's fault- because: " How could YOU DO

THAT TO ME??? "

>

> For years, I was a slave for her. I did her grocery shopping, took her places

and was her primary social contact.I forced my husband and family to spend every

extra moment we had with her, because I felt guilty. Every year, when my husband

got a week vacation it was spent fixing things for her- because we owed her. He

got HER daughter pregnant and of course- redemption is earned by being

controlled- like a carrot on the stick. You do everything asked but never get

closer to the carrot- the prize-the freedom. The acknowledgment that we are

responsible adults.

>

> I helped her file her taxes, insurance paperwork job interviews, resumes and

cover letters. When she moved out from the home we grew up in- she blamed me for

her " having to move " she threw a vacuum cleaner at me (my son still remembers

that) because 'she couldn't get any help with the moving' even though I packed

almost everything up and my husband arranged for and paid for a van and lined up

his friends to do the heavy lifting. What she did do during her move was order

us to load stuff she suddenly didn't want- everything from furniture to clothing

and blankets, books, our childhood memorabilia- to be donated. Now, when she

looks for something that she gave away she accuses me stealing it.

>

> Of course, there were things too valuable to give away, that she didn't have

room for- a fenced dog run, riding lawn mower and misc. lawn care items and some

tools that I told her I didn't want but she insisted I take. Now, of course, I

owe her because of this " generosity "

>

> Even married, it took six years for my husband and family to be able to go

out for the afternoon without my feeling guilty or worried that she would be

upset for not knowing where I was going- or asking permission beforehand. Not a

dinner out would go unnoticed and I always got the riot act- what about her?

what about her life, she's stuck at home doing NOTHING and we can't think of

her! How dare us!

>

> A few years ago my family decided to move out of state. My husband had a great

job, benefits and I enrolled in the university in the city. When my mom and

grandparents dropped me and my son (3-years-old at the time) off at the airport

she wouldn't even get out of the car or say good by. 'a fucking goodbye is a

fucking goodbye " was as good as it got.

> The entire few months we were gone she called and sobbed on the phone for

HOURS, everyday, about how we were only leaving because we were selfish and

wanted money. One day, I received a card that was clearly meant for star crossed

and separated lovers. She sent it to me- to illustrate how much she missed me!

It was disgusting. She even tried talking me into getting a full time job so I

could pay her to watch our son- even though I was lucky to not have had to work

at the time.

> After my grandparents suffered many health issues we decided to move back-

because my mom wouldn't take care of her parents. " I just have so much of my own

life, " she would say- even though her life consisted of working part time and

spending the rest of the day with her feet up, drinking coffee, smoking ciggs

and talking on the phone.

>

> Moving back was the worst thing-ever.

>

> The past six months has been the final straw. For Thanksgiving I cooked the

entire dinner and then packed it into her house- 2 miles away- because she

didn't feel like leaving her home. And then she whined because we didn't bring

our own plates- because it would cost her 50 cents in dish soap. She couldn't

even offer drinks- we had to bring that too! And we had to leave her ample

leftovers because she 'doesn't have money'- remember- I caused her husband to

leave her and she doesn't have any money because of it.

>

> It was mid-November that I took a job, fulltime at the newspaper I've written

for for nearly 6 years. That's really what set her off. I was no longer at her

beck and call. Even though I was working at home- my time was never respected.

She called 6-10 times a day and then bitch when I'd say I have to get to work. I

thought actually having to go to the office would create some natural

boundaries- she doesn't like that!

>

> After the first month I worked 60+ hour weeks with training and finding my

groove and during that time my husband was out of town with his job for two

weeks. Add in the holidays and we were dead beat tired.

>

> Freelancing, I didn't get more than a day off every two weeks so at

Christmastime, we decided to go skiing. My husband pulled his back and we had to

postpone our ski trip. On the Sunday we were going to go- we ended up getting

going too late and decided to spend the day, at home, just our family.

>

> Well, mom wasn't about to let that happen. She called me 4 times, before noon,

to remind me that my husband had promised he would cut her some fire wood. Her

pile was running low. I told her that we would still be in to do the chore- and

he did tell her he would and is a man of his word- but that it wouldn't be that

day because we were spending a quiet day at home. The first such day we've been

able to have in YEARS.

>

> Instead of understanding, like a normal parent, that we need our family time

and I was stressed with the new job and the holidays- she blew up. You know how

nadas get the voice, twisting every word until your insides are knotted up and

you cave, just to cut your losses and move on -she informed me 'to enjoy my

fucking day with my family. I guess I'll just have to stay home, alone,

freezing. I guess I'll just have to turn my heater on. You may have money to

burn but I don't have money but I guess I'll have to turn my heater on-there

goes ALL my money. "

>

> I thought: fuck it: we'll go in, cut her fire wood and come home. Our kids

decided they'd stay home and play their new video games they got for Christmas

and we went in.

>

> Well, she was pleased as punch we came in but once she realized that I hadn't

come in to visit- that I was helping my man move the wood- because his back

still hurt- she got PISSED. She came out while I was sweeping off her porch of

wood shavings and told me " I'm done with you. I'm fucking done. Get off my

fucking property and go home. I'm done, had it with you and your attitude. "

>

> We shrugged it off and went home.

>

> Next came New Year's Eve- I hadn't called and neither had she. A whole

blissful week of no contact.

> On New Year's Day she called all three of us kids and informed us to have a

happy f-ing new year, that she was tired of our crap and that this was going to

be HER YEAR. Her message informed me that, after all I've done for you- given

you- and you can't do the right thing without having an attitude...yada, yada,

yada.

>

> We all ignored it.

>

> Then, the suicide threats started. This went on for over a week.My sisters

called the local 911 and police were sent to her house multiple times for

welfare checks- she was " fine " and they wouldn't commit her.

>

> Before she exploded over the fire-wood chopping incident she watched my

younger son a few times a week but once she snapped and started getting very

hateful. Taking her violent behavior in the past, I informed her that the

children would not be placed in the middle until she had her anger under control

and got help. My twin sister, who lives locally, gave her the same mandate.

>

> To get back at me- she threatened to call Child Protective Services- not

because my children are in danger but to hurt me in response to her having the

police check in.

>

> She's made comments like " She'll have to suffer the consequences of keeping

the children from me, " and it chilled me to the bone.

>

> Now that her cycle seems to have run its course, this time, she's called and

left a few messages and emails. She's claiming that she's stepping out of the

" cycle of abuse " me and my sisters are supposedly putting her in. She's also

begging to see my youngest son. (my oldest doesn't really want to put up with

her shit) so he hasn't been mentioned.

>

> She's now saying " I've said I'm sorry and there's nothing I can do. It's now

in your control. Only you have the power for us to have a normal mother/daughter

relationship. That's what I've wanted all along, but it's up to you. "

>

> I suggested a group counseling session but she's refused (although she says

she's seeing one and that this professional told her that her emotions are

validated and it sounds like we're manipulating her!) She " doesn't have to

disclose to us who her counselor is because this is HER journey' and I doubt a

counselor exists.

>

> So: are my feelings justified. I'm scared to death that she'll take off with

my son and disappear but on the other hand, feel maybe I'm being paranoid and

should try to be understanding of her mental illness....

>

> I need some input, quickly.

>

> I know that I need to focus on getting myself healthy. My nerves are shot and

I just keep gaining weight but I don't know what to do about my mom.

>

> Sorry my post is so long, it's one of the first such posting I've made here

and I really need some reassurance.

>

> Thank you!

>

January 27, 2011

Thank you, all for your input.

I know it will be tough- but knowing that there are others, just like me, helps

to know that it will be okay.

> >

> > So-

> >

> > Long story short, my mother is BPD with narcissistic tendencies. She's

always been this way but it hasn't been until the last couple of years that

myself, twin sister and older sister have been able to pinpoint it.

> >

> > When I was 15, my stepfather molested me. I'm not minimizing the situation

but, unlike many victims who live with years of abuse- " it " only happened to me

twice.

> >

> > I know that what he did was terribly wrong but my mother and his

relationship wasn't good- sexually. Of course, she would fill me in with the

details. We grew up with the message that 'any hole will do,' 'sex is dirty and

always bad, even when you're married sex is only to meet a man's needs and to

portray power over a woman.'

> >

> > when my sisters and I became teenagers we weren't allowed to date, we

weren't allowed to go out with friends, go to the movies, have friends over,

etc. We weren't allowed to wear makeup or shave(when I brought up that I needed

to shave (badly) she snidely remarked 'why, are you ready to start fucking boys.

I guess you need to douche, too.' I didn't know what she was talking about. She

dressed all of us like paupers- and weren't poor but we were forced to wear old,

hand-me-down clothing that was always way too big on us- then she'd comment

about how fat we looked.

> >

> > Here recently, I tried to tell her how uncomfortable I was, as a child, to

have to hear about her and my step-father sex life (on the RARE occassion they

had sex) she'd tell me all about his semen running down her leg after they had

sex- when I brought it up and said it was too much information for a child (and

a daughter, period) she responded with " Well, I thought I could talk to you as a

mature adult. I guess you weren't mature and still aren't. If you'd rather: I'll

talk to you like a child. " (I'm nearly 30 years old!)

> >

> > After the abuse, my mother confided in me that she felt like I was " the

other woman. "

> >

> > While I knew it wasn't my fault, I've only realized now- nearly 15 years

later-that her statement about me being the other women placed me in a terrible

situation: living every day to serve her and prove that I was on her side. This

fed her need to have a submissive underling perfectly and I became her fiercest

defender.

> >

> > Instead of heading to law school (I'd already been accepted into several

prestigious pre-law programs in Washington D.C. and Stanford) but my mom never

told me about the programs and refused to let me go- I only recently found out

after she gave me misc. stuff from my school years and the acceptance letters

were kept) Instead of me and my sisters being let go to continue life after high

school she bemoaned that she was no longer needed and had she known we would

just " leave her anyway " she wouldn't have had children.

> >

> > Not surprisingly-At 17, looking for acceptance and having sex on my terms I

got pregnant (luckily, my marriage has been blessed and we've been together

since and have a (somewhat) happy family- even having another son.He's been

extremely patient with this process but it has added some distress- added to the

fact that my mother constantly berates me to divorce him and move in with her)

> >

> > After the pregnancy, my mom held me hostage. Not only did I ruin her life by

her marriage (which was never healthy) crumbling because of what happened now I

was pregnant " AND HOW COULD I DO THAT TO HER???? "

> > So my burden was even greater.(I felt ashamed for getting pregnant. Here I