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Geez--consistently overstepping boundaries...and so much of it sounds so

familiar---my dad is BPD with NPD, or maybe just narcissistic

tendencies...but geez, all the swearing and putting things on you to make it

right...

Basically, you have EVERY right to be NC. You don't owe her anything,

allegiance, money, food, etc. You were right to have the police check on her

because of her suicidal threats. She can stay wrapped up in herself, but

take care of YOU and your husband and your children first. Your marriage is

more important than trying to make her life better because she blames you

for her broken marriage.

You can go NC all at once, or you could step back slowly, going through LC

first. How you go about it is up to you, but I'm sure others have good

advice on how to go about that, too. But remember, first and foremost, your

responsibility lies with the family you've made with your husband and

children, not to your family of origin, who's nutty as hell.

Holly

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 2:39 AM, blairkoch@... wrote:

>

>

> So-

>

> Long story short, my mother is BPD with narcissistic tendencies. She's

> always been this way but it hasn't been until the last couple of years that

> myself, twin sister and older sister have been able to pinpoint it.

>

> When I was 15, my stepfather molested me. I'm not minimizing the situation

> but, unlike many victims who live with years of abuse- " it " only happened to

> me twice.

>

> I know that what he did was terribly wrong but my mother and his

> relationship wasn't good- sexually. Of course, she would fill me in with the

> details. We grew up with the message that 'any hole will do,' 'sex is dirty

> and always bad, even when you're married sex is only to meet a man's needs

> and to portray power over a woman.'

>

> when my sisters and I became teenagers we weren't allowed to date, we

> weren't allowed to go out with friends, go to the movies, have friends over,

> etc. We weren't allowed to wear makeup or shave(when I brought up that I

> needed to shave (badly) she snidely remarked 'why, are you ready to start

> fucking boys. I guess you need to douche, too.' I didn't know what she was

> talking about. She dressed all of us like paupers- and weren't poor but we

> were forced to wear old, hand-me-down clothing that was always way too big

> on us- then she'd comment about how fat we looked.

>

> Here recently, I tried to tell her how uncomfortable I was, as a child, to

> have to hear about her and my step-father sex life (on the RARE occassion

> they had sex) she'd tell me all about his semen running down her leg after

> they had sex- when I brought it up and said it was too much information for

> a child (and a daughter, period) she responded with " Well, I thought I could

> talk to you as a mature adult. I guess you weren't mature and still aren't.

> If you'd rather: I'll talk to you like a child. " (I'm nearly 30 years old!)

>

> After the abuse, my mother confided in me that she felt like I was " the

> other woman. "

>

> While I knew it wasn't my fault, I've only realized now- nearly 15 years

> later-that her statement about me being the other women placed me in a

> terrible situation: living every day to serve her and prove that I was on

> her side. This fed her need to have a submissive underling perfectly and I

> became her fiercest defender.

>

> Instead of heading to law school (I'd already been accepted into several

> prestigious pre-law programs in Washington D.C. and Stanford) but my mom

> never told me about the programs and refused to let me go- I only recently

> found out after she gave me misc. stuff from my school years and the

> acceptance letters were kept) Instead of me and my sisters being let go to

> continue life after high school she bemoaned that she was no longer needed

> and had she known we would just " leave her anyway " she wouldn't have had

> children.

>

> Not surprisingly-At 17, looking for acceptance and having sex on my terms I

> got pregnant (luckily, my marriage has been blessed and we've been together

> since and have a (somewhat) happy family- even having another son.He's been

> extremely patient with this process but it has added some distress- added to

> the fact that my mother constantly berates me to divorce him and move in

> with her)

>

> After the pregnancy, my mom held me hostage. Not only did I ruin her life

> by her marriage (which was never healthy) crumbling because of what happened

> now I was pregnant " AND HOW COULD I DO THAT TO HER???? "

> So my burden was even greater.(I felt ashamed for getting pregnant. Here I

> was- within the top five students of my graduating class, a National Honor

> Society member, etc.While I was a teen mom I don't recommend it) Anyway, she

> refused to let me move out-even though I had been able to graduate high

> school early and had enrolled in community college. Although living with her

> my husband supported me and was paying all of my living expenses, basically

> rent to my mom, and my food, clothing, medical care, etc., At 7 months

> pregnant, we were engaged I moved out. That was met with more drama and an

> even greater demand for continuing penance to her. Even though once the

> pregnancy was announced and " I was no longer her f-ing problem " she

> illegally claimed me on her tax return for YEARS- even after I got married-

> because " I had to realize that since HER husband was gone- she needed the

> few extra hundred dollars " (God forbid she get a job) and denied my family

> the thousand of dollars it would have saved us. She forced us to buy a car

> from her- because she had me believing that no one would give me- a loser

> teen mom- a loan for a car and she was soooo generous- even though the car

> cost us several thousand dollars more than it was worth.Again, not only did

> we owe her for the car- we owed her for her allowing us to buy it. She did

> us another " favor " a few years later by forcing us into purchasing a piece

> of property she had- I didn't want it but she went to the county and filed

> the paperwork indicating she was " gifting it " to us and then informing me

> that it was my f-ing problem and that I owed her- this time for nearly twice

> what the property was worth. This act was again met with more demands- if

> she needed something we owed it to her, because jeeze- now I've caused her

> to lose her husband and her private property.

>

> My selfworth was so poor and I felt bad for my mom. She had been a

> stay-at-home mom (never let us forget it, that she had NO job skills because

> she was raising US- so again, we owe her) that I let her control me. I also

> (wrongly) stopped my husband from sticking up for us. I always thought- and

> I think many can relate- that if I went along with her craziness that one

> day she would be happy and I would be redeemed. I would be the good daughter

> I was trained to be and allowed to fly free-like a healthy adult should.

>

> My older sister flew the coup early on, meeting someone online and moving

> back east to visit- she never returned. I don't blame her.

>

> My twin sister's first husband entered the military and she left.

> Each time, my mom would go into a crazy tailspin.

>

> Although these milestones should be happy they weren't. High school

> graduations, proms- even our weddings were cast in her shadow.

>

> Growing up, she broke all of my older sisters prized ceramic and keepsake

> rabbit collection because she went out with our biological father for

> easter. Instead of apologizing- it was my sister's fault- because: " How

> could YOU DO THAT TO ME??? "

>

> For years, I was a slave for her. I did her grocery shopping, took her

> places and was her primary social contact.I forced my husband and family to

> spend every extra moment we had with her, because I felt guilty. Every year,

> when my husband got a week vacation it was spent fixing things for her-

> because we owed her. He got HER daughter pregnant and of course- redemption

> is earned by being controlled- like a carrot on the stick. You do everything

> asked but never get closer to the carrot- the prize-the freedom. The

> acknowledgment that we are responsible adults.

>

> I helped her file her taxes, insurance paperwork job interviews, resumes

> and cover letters. When she moved out from the home we grew up in- she

> blamed me for her " having to move " she threw a vacuum cleaner at me (my son

> still remembers that) because 'she couldn't get any help with the moving'

> even though I packed almost everything up and my husband arranged for and

> paid for a van and lined up his friends to do the heavy lifting. What she

> did do during her move was order us to load stuff she suddenly didn't want-

> everything from furniture to clothing and blankets, books, our childhood

> memorabilia- to be donated. Now, when she looks for something that she gave

> away she accuses me stealing it.

>

> Of course, there were things too valuable to give away, that she didn't

> have room for- a fenced dog run, riding lawn mower and misc. lawn care items

> and some tools that I told her I didn't want but she insisted I take. Now,

> of course, I owe her because of this " generosity "

>

> Even married, it took six years for my husband and family to be able to go

> out for the afternoon without my feeling guilty or worried that she would be

> upset for not knowing where I was going- or asking permission beforehand.

> Not a dinner out would go unnoticed and I always got the riot act- what

> about her? what about her life, she's stuck at home doing NOTHING and we

> can't think of her! How dare us!

>

> A few years ago my family decided to move out of state. My husband had a

> great job, benefits and I enrolled in the university in the city. When my

> mom and grandparents dropped me and my son (3-years-old at the time) off at

> the airport she wouldn't even get out of the car or say good by. 'a fucking

> goodbye is a fucking goodbye " was as good as it got.

> The entire few months we were gone she called and sobbed on the phone for

> HOURS, everyday, about how we were only leaving because we were selfish and

> wanted money. One day, I received a card that was clearly meant for star

> crossed and separated lovers. She sent it to me- to illustrate how much she

> missed me! It was disgusting. She even tried talking me into getting a full

> time job so I could pay her to watch our son- even though I was lucky to not

> have had to work at the time.

> After my grandparents suffered many health issues we decided to move back-

> because my mom wouldn't take care of her parents. " I just have so much of my

> own life, " she would say- even though her life consisted of working part

> time and spending the rest of the day with her feet up, drinking coffee,

> smoking ciggs and talking on the phone.

>

> Moving back was the worst thing-ever.

>

> The past six months has been the final straw. For Thanksgiving I cooked the

> entire dinner and then packed it into her house- 2 miles away- because she

> didn't feel like leaving her home. And then she whined because we didn't

> bring our own plates- because it would cost her 50 cents in dish soap. She

> couldn't even offer drinks- we had to bring that too! And we had to leave

> her ample leftovers because she 'doesn't have money'- remember- I caused her

> husband to leave her and she doesn't have any money because of it.

>

> It was mid-November that I took a job, fulltime at the newspaper I've

> written for for nearly 6 years. That's really what set her off. I was no

> longer at her beck and call. Even though I was working at home- my time was

> never respected. She called 6-10 times a day and then bitch when I'd say I

> have to get to work. I thought actually having to go to the office would

> create some natural boundaries- she doesn't like that!

>

> After the first month I worked 60+ hour weeks with training and finding my

> groove and during that time my husband was out of town with his job for two

> weeks. Add in the holidays and we were dead beat tired.

>

> Freelancing, I didn't get more than a day off every two weeks so at

> Christmastime, we decided to go skiing. My husband pulled his back and we

> had to postpone our ski trip. On the Sunday we were going to go- we ended up

> getting going too late and decided to spend the day, at home, just our

> family.

>

> Well, mom wasn't about to let that happen. She called me 4 times, before

> noon, to remind me that my husband had promised he would cut her some fire

> wood. Her pile was running low. I told her that we would still be in to do

> the chore- and he did tell her he would and is a man of his word- but that

> it wouldn't be that day because we were spending a quiet day at home. The

> first such day we've been able to have in YEARS.

>

> Instead of understanding, like a normal parent, that we need our family

> time and I was stressed with the new job and the holidays- she blew up. You

> know how nadas get the voice, twisting every word until your insides are

> knotted up and you cave, just to cut your losses and move on -she informed

> me 'to enjoy my fucking day with my family. I guess I'll just have to stay

> home, alone, freezing. I guess I'll just have to turn my heater on. You may

> have money to burn but I don't have money but I guess I'll have to turn my

> heater on-there goes ALL my money. "

>

> I thought: fuck it: we'll go in, cut her fire wood and come home. Our kids

> decided they'd stay home and play their new video games they got for

> Christmas and we went in.

>

> Well, she was pleased as punch we came in but once she realized that I

> hadn't come in to visit- that I was helping my man move the wood- because

> his back still hurt- she got PISSED. She came out while I was sweeping off

> her porch of wood shavings and told me " I'm done with you. I'm fucking done.

> Get off my fucking property and go home. I'm done, had it with you and your

> attitude. "

>

> We shrugged it off and went home.

>

> Next came New Year's Eve- I hadn't called and neither had she. A whole

> blissful week of no contact.

> On New Year's Day she called all three of us kids and informed us to have a

> happy f-ing new year, that she was tired of our crap and that this was going

> to be HER YEAR. Her message informed me that, after all I've done for you-

> given you- and you can't do the right thing without having an

> attitude...yada, yada, yada.

>

> We all ignored it.

>

> Then, the suicide threats started. This went on for over a week.My sisters

> called the local 911 and police were sent to her house multiple times for

> welfare checks- she was " fine " and they wouldn't commit her.

>

> Before she exploded over the fire-wood chopping incident she watched my

> younger son a few times a week but once she snapped and started getting very

> hateful. Taking her violent behavior in the past, I informed her that the

> children would not be placed in the middle until she had her anger under

> control and got help. My twin sister, who lives locally, gave her the same

> mandate.

>

> To get back at me- she threatened to call Child Protective Services- not

> because my children are in danger but to hurt me in response to her having

> the police check in.

>

> She's made comments like " She'll have to suffer the consequences of keeping

> the children from me, " and it chilled me to the bone.

>

> Now that her cycle seems to have run its course, this time, she's called

> and left a few messages and emails. She's claiming that she's stepping out

> of the " cycle of abuse " me and my sisters are supposedly putting her in.

> She's also begging to see my youngest son. (my oldest doesn't really want to

> put up with her shit) so he hasn't been mentioned.

>

> She's now saying " I've said I'm sorry and there's nothing I can do. It's

> now in your control. Only you have the power for us to have a normal

> mother/daughter relationship. That's what I've wanted all along, but it's up

> to you. "

>

> I suggested a group counseling session but she's refused (although she says

> she's seeing one and that this professional told her that her emotions are

> validated and it sounds like we're manipulating her!) She " doesn't have to

> disclose to us who her counselor is because this is HER journey' and I doubt

> a counselor exists.

>

> So: are my feelings justified. I'm scared to death that she'll take off

> with my son and disappear but on the other hand, feel maybe I'm being

> paranoid and should try to be understanding of her mental illness....

>

> I need some input, quickly.

>

> I know that I need to focus on getting myself healthy. My nerves are shot

> and I just keep gaining weight but I don't know what to do about my mom.

>

> Sorry my post is so long, it's one of the first such posting I've made here

> and I really need some reassurance.

>

> Thank you!

>

>

>

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Wow - that's horrifying. And yet I can imagine my own nada doing almost

every single one of those things.

I would absolutely go NC. I would also do whatever I could to protect my

kids. I would notify the school to keep the kids away from her immediately.

Can you move? Or is that impossible. Witness protection program!

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 5:28 AM, Holly Byers

wrote:

> Geez--consistently overstepping boundaries...and so much of it sounds so

> familiar---my dad is BPD with NPD, or maybe just narcissistic

> tendencies...but geez, all the swearing and putting things on you to make

> it

> right...

>

> Basically, you have EVERY right to be NC. You don't owe her anything,

> allegiance, money, food, etc. You were right to have the police check on

> her

> because of her suicidal threats. She can stay wrapped up in herself, but

> take care of YOU and your husband and your children first. Your marriage is

> more important than trying to make her life better because she blames you

> for her broken marriage.

>

> You can go NC all at once, or you could step back slowly, going through LC

> first. How you go about it is up to you, but I'm sure others have good

> advice on how to go about that, too. But remember, first and foremost, your

> responsibility lies with the family you've made with your husband and

> children, not to your family of origin, who's nutty as hell.

>

> Holly

>

> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 2:39 AM, blairkoch@... <blairkoch@...

> >wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > So-

> >

> > Long story short, my mother is BPD with narcissistic tendencies. She's

> > always been this way but it hasn't been until the last couple of years

> that

> > myself, twin sister and older sister have been able to pinpoint it.

> >

> > When I was 15, my stepfather molested me. I'm not minimizing the

> situation

> > but, unlike many victims who live with years of abuse- " it " only happened

> to

> > me twice.

> >

> > I know that what he did was terribly wrong but my mother and his

> > relationship wasn't good- sexually. Of course, she would fill me in with

> the

> > details. We grew up with the message that 'any hole will do,' 'sex is

> dirty

> > and always bad, even when you're married sex is only to meet a man's

> needs

> > and to portray power over a woman.'

> >

> > when my sisters and I became teenagers we weren't allowed to date, we

> > weren't allowed to go out with friends, go to the movies, have friends

> over,

> > etc. We weren't allowed to wear makeup or shave(when I brought up that I

> > needed to shave (badly) she snidely remarked 'why, are you ready to start

> > fucking boys. I guess you need to douche, too.' I didn't know what she

> was

> > talking about. She dressed all of us like paupers- and weren't poor but

> we

> > were forced to wear old, hand-me-down clothing that was always way too

> big

> > on us- then she'd comment about how fat we looked.

> >

> > Here recently, I tried to tell her how uncomfortable I was, as a child,

> to

> > have to hear about her and my step-father sex life (on the RARE occassion

> > they had sex) she'd tell me all about his semen running down her leg

> after

> > they had sex- when I brought it up and said it was too much information

> for

> > a child (and a daughter, period) she responded with " Well, I thought I

> could

> > talk to you as a mature adult. I guess you weren't mature and still

> aren't.

> > If you'd rather: I'll talk to you like a child. " (I'm nearly 30 years

> old!)

> >

> > After the abuse, my mother confided in me that she felt like I was " the

> > other woman. "

> >

> > While I knew it wasn't my fault, I've only realized now- nearly 15 years

> > later-that her statement about me being the other women placed me in a

> > terrible situation: living every day to serve her and prove that I was on

> > her side. This fed her need to have a submissive underling perfectly and

> I

> > became her fiercest defender.

> >

> > Instead of heading to law school (I'd already been accepted into several

> > prestigious pre-law programs in Washington D.C. and Stanford) but my mom

> > never told me about the programs and refused to let me go- I only

> recently

> > found out after she gave me misc. stuff from my school years and the

> > acceptance letters were kept) Instead of me and my sisters being let go

> to

> > continue life after high school she bemoaned that she was no longer

> needed

> > and had she known we would just " leave her anyway " she wouldn't have had

> > children.

> >

> > Not surprisingly-At 17, looking for acceptance and having sex on my terms

> I

> > got pregnant (luckily, my marriage has been blessed and we've been

> together

> > since and have a (somewhat) happy family- even having another son.He's

> been

> > extremely patient with this process but it has added some distress- added

> to

> > the fact that my mother constantly berates me to divorce him and move in

> > with her)

> >

> > After the pregnancy, my mom held me hostage. Not only did I ruin her life

> > by her marriage (which was never healthy) crumbling because of what

> happened

> > now I was pregnant " AND HOW COULD I DO THAT TO HER???? "

> > So my burden was even greater.(I felt ashamed for getting pregnant. Here

> I

> > was- within the top five students of my graduating class, a National

> Honor

> > Society member, etc.While I was a teen mom I don't recommend it) Anyway,

> she

> > refused to let me move out-even though I had been able to graduate high

> > school early and had enrolled in community college. Although living with

> her

> > my husband supported me and was paying all of my living expenses,

> basically

> > rent to my mom, and my food, clothing, medical care, etc., At 7 months

> > pregnant, we were engaged I moved out. That was met with more drama and

> an

> > even greater demand for continuing penance to her. Even though once the

> > pregnancy was announced and " I was no longer her f-ing problem " she

> > illegally claimed me on her tax return for YEARS- even after I got

> married-

> > because " I had to realize that since HER husband was gone- she needed the

> > few extra hundred dollars " (God forbid she get a job) and denied my

> family

> > the thousand of dollars it would have saved us. She forced us to buy a

> car

> > from her- because she had me believing that no one would give me- a loser

> > teen mom- a loan for a car and she was soooo generous- even though the

> car

> > cost us several thousand dollars more than it was worth.Again, not only

> did

> > we owe her for the car- we owed her for her allowing us to buy it. She

> did

> > us another " favor " a few years later by forcing us into purchasing a

> piece

> > of property she had- I didn't want it but she went to the county and

> filed

> > the paperwork indicating she was " gifting it " to us and then informing me

> > that it was my f-ing problem and that I owed her- this time for nearly

> twice

> > what the property was worth. This act was again met with more demands- if

> > she needed something we owed it to her, because jeeze- now I've caused

> her

> > to lose her husband and her private property.

> >

> > My selfworth was so poor and I felt bad for my mom. She had been a

> > stay-at-home mom (never let us forget it, that she had NO job skills

> because

> > she was raising US- so again, we owe her) that I let her control me. I

> also

> > (wrongly) stopped my husband from sticking up for us. I always thought-

> and

> > I think many can relate- that if I went along with her craziness that one

> > day she would be happy and I would be redeemed. I would be the good

> daughter

> > I was trained to be and allowed to fly free-like a healthy adult should.

> >

> > My older sister flew the coup early on, meeting someone online and moving

> > back east to visit- she never returned. I don't blame her.

> >

> > My twin sister's first husband entered the military and she left.

> > Each time, my mom would go into a crazy tailspin.

> >

> > Although these milestones should be happy they weren't. High school

> > graduations, proms- even our weddings were cast in her shadow.

> >

> > Growing up, she broke all of my older sisters prized ceramic and keepsake

> > rabbit collection because she went out with our biological father for

> > easter. Instead of apologizing- it was my sister's fault- because: " How

> > could YOU DO THAT TO ME??? "

> >

> > For years, I was a slave for her. I did her grocery shopping, took her

> > places and was her primary social contact.I forced my husband and family

> to

> > spend every extra moment we had with her, because I felt guilty. Every

> year,

> > when my husband got a week vacation it was spent fixing things for her-

> > because we owed her. He got HER daughter pregnant and of course-

> redemption

> > is earned by being controlled- like a carrot on the stick. You do

> everything

> > asked but never get closer to the carrot- the prize-the freedom. The

> > acknowledgment that we are responsible adults.

> >

> > I helped her file her taxes, insurance paperwork job interviews, resumes

> > and cover letters. When she moved out from the home we grew up in- she

> > blamed me for her " having to move " she threw a vacuum cleaner at me (my

> son

> > still remembers that) because 'she couldn't get any help with the moving'

> > even though I packed almost everything up and my husband arranged for and

> > paid for a van and lined up his friends to do the heavy lifting. What she

> > did do during her move was order us to load stuff she suddenly didn't

> want-

> > everything from furniture to clothing and blankets, books, our childhood

> > memorabilia- to be donated. Now, when she looks for something that she

> gave

> > away she accuses me stealing it.

> >

> > Of course, there were things too valuable to give away, that she didn't

> > have room for- a fenced dog run, riding lawn mower and misc. lawn care

> items

> > and some tools that I told her I didn't want but she insisted I take.

> Now,

> > of course, I owe her because of this " generosity "

> >

> > Even married, it took six years for my husband and family to be able to

> go

> > out for the afternoon without my feeling guilty or worried that she would

> be

> > upset for not knowing where I was going- or asking permission beforehand.

> > Not a dinner out would go unnoticed and I always got the riot act- what

> > about her? what about her life, she's stuck at home doing NOTHING and we

> > can't think of her! How dare us!

> >

> > A few years ago my family decided to move out of state. My husband had a

> > great job, benefits and I enrolled in the university in the city. When my

> > mom and grandparents dropped me and my son (3-years-old at the time) off

> at

> > the airport she wouldn't even get out of the car or say good by. 'a

> fucking

> > goodbye is a fucking goodbye " was as good as it got.

> > The entire few months we were gone she called and sobbed on the phone for

> > HOURS, everyday, about how we were only leaving because we were selfish

> and

> > wanted money. One day, I received a card that was clearly meant for star

> > crossed and separated lovers. She sent it to me- to illustrate how much

> she

> > missed me! It was disgusting. She even tried talking me into getting a

> full

> > time job so I could pay her to watch our son- even though I was lucky to

> not

> > have had to work at the time.

> > After my grandparents suffered many health issues we decided to move

> back-

> > because my mom wouldn't take care of her parents. " I just have so much of

> my

> > own life, " she would say- even though her life consisted of working part

> > time and spending the rest of the day with her feet up, drinking coffee,

> > smoking ciggs and talking on the phone.

> >

> > Moving back was the worst thing-ever.

> >

> > The past six months has been the final straw. For Thanksgiving I cooked

> the

> > entire dinner and then packed it into her house- 2 miles away- because

> she

> > didn't feel like leaving her home. And then she whined because we didn't

> > bring our own plates- because it would cost her 50 cents in dish soap.

> She

> > couldn't even offer drinks- we had to bring that too! And we had to leave

> > her ample leftovers because she 'doesn't have money'- remember- I caused

> her

> > husband to leave her and she doesn't have any money because of it.

> >

> > It was mid-November that I took a job, fulltime at the newspaper I've

> > written for for nearly 6 years. That's really what set her off. I was no

> > longer at her beck and call. Even though I was working at home- my time

> was

> > never respected. She called 6-10 times a day and then bitch when I'd say

> I

> > have to get to work. I thought actually having to go to the office would

> > create some natural boundaries- she doesn't like that!

> >

> > After the first month I worked 60+ hour weeks with training and finding

> my

> > groove and during that time my husband was out of town with his job for

> two

> > weeks. Add in the holidays and we were dead beat tired.

> >

> > Freelancing, I didn't get more than a day off every two weeks so at

> > Christmastime, we decided to go skiing. My husband pulled his back and we

> > had to postpone our ski trip. On the Sunday we were going to go- we ended

> up

> > getting going too late and decided to spend the day, at home, just our

> > family.

> >

> > Well, mom wasn't about to let that happen. She called me 4 times, before

> > noon, to remind me that my husband had promised he would cut her some

> fire

> > wood. Her pile was running low. I told her that we would still be in to

> do

> > the chore- and he did tell her he would and is a man of his word- but

> that

> > it wouldn't be that day because we were spending a quiet day at home. The

> > first such day we've been able to have in YEARS.

> >

> > Instead of understanding, like a normal parent, that we need our family

> > time and I was stressed with the new job and the holidays- she blew up.

> You

> > know how nadas get the voice, twisting every word until your insides are

> > knotted up and you cave, just to cut your losses and move on -she

> informed

> > me 'to enjoy my fucking day with my family. I guess I'll just have to

> stay

> > home, alone, freezing. I guess I'll just have to turn my heater on. You

> may

> > have money to burn but I don't have money but I guess I'll have to turn

> my

> > heater on-there goes ALL my money. "

> >

> > I thought: fuck it: we'll go in, cut her fire wood and come home. Our

> kids

> > decided they'd stay home and play their new video games they got for

> > Christmas and we went in.

> >

> > Well, she was pleased as punch we came in but once she realized that I

> > hadn't come in to visit- that I was helping my man move the wood- because

> > his back still hurt- she got PISSED. She came out while I was sweeping

> off

> > her porch of wood shavings and told me " I'm done with you. I'm fucking

> done.

> > Get off my fucking property and go home. I'm done, had it with you and

> your

> > attitude. "

> >

> > We shrugged it off and went home.

> >

> > Next came New Year's Eve- I hadn't called and neither had she. A whole

> > blissful week of no contact.

> > On New Year's Day she called all three of us kids and informed us to have

> a

> > happy f-ing new year, that she was tired of our crap and that this was

> going

> > to be HER YEAR. Her message informed me that, after all I've done for

> you-

> > given you- and you can't do the right thing without having an

> > attitude...yada, yada, yada.

> >

> > We all ignored it.

> >

> > Then, the suicide threats started. This went on for over a week.My

> sisters

> > called the local 911 and police were sent to her house multiple times for

> > welfare checks- she was " fine " and they wouldn't commit her.

> >

> > Before she exploded over the fire-wood chopping incident she watched my

> > younger son a few times a week but once she snapped and started getting

> very

> > hateful. Taking her violent behavior in the past, I informed her that the

> > children would not be placed in the middle until she had her anger under

> > control and got help. My twin sister, who lives locally, gave her the

> same

> > mandate.

> >

> > To get back at me- she threatened to call Child Protective Services- not

> > because my children are in danger but to hurt me in response to her

> having

> > the police check in.

> >

> > She's made comments like " She'll have to suffer the consequences of

> keeping

> > the children from me, " and it chilled me to the bone.

> >

> > Now that her cycle seems to have run its course, this time, she's called

> > and left a few messages and emails. She's claiming that she's stepping

> out

> > of the " cycle of abuse " me and my sisters are supposedly putting her in.

> > She's also begging to see my youngest son. (my oldest doesn't really want

> to

> > put up with her shit) so he hasn't been mentioned.

> >

> > She's now saying " I've said I'm sorry and there's nothing I can do. It's

> > now in your control. Only you have the power for us to have a normal

> > mother/daughter relationship. That's what I've wanted all along, but it's

> up

> > to you. "

> >

> > I suggested a group counseling session but she's refused (although she

> says

> > she's seeing one and that this professional told her that her emotions

> are

> > validated and it sounds like we're manipulating her!) She " doesn't have

> to

> > disclose to us who her counselor is because this is HER journey' and I

> doubt

> > a counselor exists.

> >

> > So: are my feelings justified. I'm scared to death that she'll take off

> > with my son and disappear but on the other hand, feel maybe I'm being

> > paranoid and should try to be understanding of her mental illness....

> >

> > I need some input, quickly.

> >

> > I know that I need to focus on getting myself healthy. My nerves are shot

> > and I just keep gaining weight but I don't know what to do about my mom.

> >

> > Sorry my post is so long, it's one of the first such posting I've made

> here

> > and I really need some reassurance.

> >

> > Thank you!

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

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Wow - that's horrifying. And yet I can imagine my own nada doing almost

every single one of those things.

I would absolutely go NC. I would also do whatever I could to protect my

kids. I would notify the school to keep the kids away from her immediately.

Can you move? Or is that impossible. Witness protection program!

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 5:28 AM, Holly Byers

wrote:

> Geez--consistently overstepping boundaries...and so much of it sounds so

> familiar---my dad is BPD with NPD, or maybe just narcissistic

> tendencies...but geez, all the swearing and putting things on you to make

> it

> right...

>

> Basically, you have EVERY right to be NC. You don't owe her anything,

> allegiance, money, food, etc. You were right to have the police check on

> her

> because of her suicidal threats. She can stay wrapped up in herself, but

> take care of YOU and your husband and your children first. Your marriage is

> more important than trying to make her life better because she blames you

> for her broken marriage.

>

> You can go NC all at once, or you could step back slowly, going through LC

> first. How you go about it is up to you, but I'm sure others have good

> advice on how to go about that, too. But remember, first and foremost, your

> responsibility lies with the family you've made with your husband and

> children, not to your family of origin, who's nutty as hell.

>

> Holly

>

> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 2:39 AM, blairkoch@... <blairkoch@...

> >wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > So-

> >

> > Long story short, my mother is BPD with narcissistic tendencies. She's

> > always been this way but it hasn't been until the last couple of years

> that

> > myself, twin sister and older sister have been able to pinpoint it.

> >

> > When I was 15, my stepfather molested me. I'm not minimizing the

> situation

> > but, unlike many victims who live with years of abuse- " it " only happened

> to

> > me twice.

> >

> > I know that what he did was terribly wrong but my mother and his

> > relationship wasn't good- sexually. Of course, she would fill me in with

> the

> > details. We grew up with the message that 'any hole will do,' 'sex is

> dirty

> > and always bad, even when you're married sex is only to meet a man's

> needs

> > and to portray power over a woman.'

> >

> > when my sisters and I became teenagers we weren't allowed to date, we

> > weren't allowed to go out with friends, go to the movies, have friends

> over,

> > etc. We weren't allowed to wear makeup or shave(when I brought up that I

> > needed to shave (badly) she snidely remarked 'why, are you ready to start

> > fucking boys. I guess you need to douche, too.' I didn't know what she

> was

> > talking about. She dressed all of us like paupers- and weren't poor but

> we

> > were forced to wear old, hand-me-down clothing that was always way too

> big

> > on us- then she'd comment about how fat we looked.

> >

> > Here recently, I tried to tell her how uncomfortable I was, as a child,

> to

> > have to hear about her and my step-father sex life (on the RARE occassion

> > they had sex) she'd tell me all about his semen running down her leg

> after

> > they had sex- when I brought it up and said it was too much information

> for

> > a child (and a daughter, period) she responded with " Well, I thought I

> could

> > talk to you as a mature adult. I guess you weren't mature and still

> aren't.

> > If you'd rather: I'll talk to you like a child. " (I'm nearly 30 years

> old!)

> >

> > After the abuse, my mother confided in me that she felt like I was " the

> > other woman. "

> >

> > While I knew it wasn't my fault, I've only realized now- nearly 15 years

> > later-that her statement about me being the other women placed me in a

> > terrible situation: living every day to serve her and prove that I was on

> > her side. This fed her need to have a submissive underling perfectly and

> I

> > became her fiercest defender.

> >

> > Instead of heading to law school (I'd already been accepted into several

> > prestigious pre-law programs in Washington D.C. and Stanford) but my mom

> > never told me about the programs and refused to let me go- I only

> recently

> > found out after she gave me misc. stuff from my school years and the

> > acceptance letters were kept) Instead of me and my sisters being let go

> to

> > continue life after high school she bemoaned that she was no longer

> needed

> > and had she known we would just " leave her anyway " she wouldn't have had

> > children.

> >

> > Not surprisingly-At 17, looking for acceptance and having sex on my terms

> I

> > got pregnant (luckily, my marriage has been blessed and we've been

> together

> > since and have a (somewhat) happy family- even having another son.He's

> been

> > extremely patient with this process but it has added some distress- added

> to

> > the fact that my mother constantly berates me to divorce him and move in

> > with her)

> >

> > After the pregnancy, my mom held me hostage. Not only did I ruin her life

> > by her marriage (which was never healthy) crumbling because of what

> happened

> > now I was pregnant " AND HOW COULD I DO THAT TO HER???? "

> > So my burden was even greater.(I felt ashamed for getting pregnant. Here

> I

> > was- within the top five students of my graduating class, a National

> Honor

> > Society member, etc.While I was a teen mom I don't recommend it) Anyway,

> she

> > refused to let me move out-even though I had been able to graduate high

> > school early and had enrolled in community college. Although living with

> her

> > my husband supported me and was paying all of my living expenses,

> basically

> > rent to my mom, and my food, clothing, medical care, etc., At 7 months

> > pregnant, we were engaged I moved out. That was met with more drama and

> an

> > even greater demand for continuing penance to her. Even though once the

> > pregnancy was announced and " I was no longer her f-ing problem " she

> > illegally claimed me on her tax return for YEARS- even after I got

> married-

> > because " I had to realize that since HER husband was gone- she needed the

> > few extra hundred dollars " (God forbid she get a job) and denied my

> family

> > the thousand of dollars it would have saved us. She forced us to buy a

> car

> > from her- because she had me believing that no one would give me- a loser

> > teen mom- a loan for a car and she was soooo generous- even though the

> car

> > cost us several thousand dollars more than it was worth.Again, not only

> did

> > we owe her for the car- we owed her for her allowing us to buy it. She

> did

> > us another " favor " a few years later by forcing us into purchasing a

> piece

> > of property she had- I didn't want it but she went to the county and

> filed

> > the paperwork indicating she was " gifting it " to us and then informing me

> > that it was my f-ing problem and that I owed her- this time for nearly

> twice

> > what the property was worth. This act was again met with more demands- if

> > she needed something we owed it to her, because jeeze- now I've caused

> her

> > to lose her husband and her private property.

> >

> > My selfworth was so poor and I felt bad for my mom. She had been a

> > stay-at-home mom (never let us forget it, that she had NO job skills

> because

> > she was raising US- so again, we owe her) that I let her control me. I

> also

> > (wrongly) stopped my husband from sticking up for us. I always thought-

> and

> > I think many can relate- that if I went along with her craziness that one

> > day she would be happy and I would be redeemed. I would be the good

> daughter

> > I was trained to be and allowed to fly free-like a healthy adult should.

> >

> > My older sister flew the coup early on, meeting someone online and moving

> > back east to visit- she never returned. I don't blame her.

> >

> > My twin sister's first husband entered the military and she left.

> > Each time, my mom would go into a crazy tailspin.

> >

> > Although these milestones should be happy they weren't. High school

> > graduations, proms- even our weddings were cast in her shadow.

> >

> > Growing up, she broke all of my older sisters prized ceramic and keepsake

> > rabbit collection because she went out with our biological father for

> > easter. Instead of apologizing- it was my sister's fault- because: " How

> > could YOU DO THAT TO ME??? "

> >

> > For years, I was a slave for her. I did her grocery shopping, took her

> > places and was her primary social contact.I forced my husband and family

> to

> > spend every extra moment we had with her, because I felt guilty. Every

> year,

> > when my husband got a week vacation it was spent fixing things for her-

> > because we owed her. He got HER daughter pregnant and of course-

> redemption

> > is earned by being controlled- like a carrot on the stick. You do

> everything

> > asked but never get closer to the carrot- the prize-the freedom. The

> > acknowledgment that we are responsible adults.

> >

> > I helped her file her taxes, insurance paperwork job interviews, resumes

> > and cover letters. When she moved out from the home we grew up in- she

> > blamed me for her " having to move " she threw a vacuum cleaner at me (my

> son

> > still remembers that) because 'she couldn't get any help with the moving'

> > even though I packed almost everything up and my husband arranged for and

> > paid for a van and lined up his friends to do the heavy lifting. What she

> > did do during her move was order us to load stuff she suddenly didn't

> want-

> > everything from furniture to clothing and blankets, books, our childhood

> > memorabilia- to be donated. Now, when she looks for something that she

> gave

> > away she accuses me stealing it.

> >

> > Of course, there were things too valuable to give away, that she didn't

> > have room for- a fenced dog run, riding lawn mower and misc. lawn care

> items

> > and some tools that I told her I didn't want but she insisted I take.

> Now,

> > of course, I owe her because of this " generosity "

> >

> > Even married, it took six years for my husband and family to be able to

> go

> > out for the afternoon without my feeling guilty or worried that she would

> be

> > upset for not knowing where I was going- or asking permission beforehand.

> > Not a dinner out would go unnoticed and I always got the riot act- what

> > about her? what about her life, she's stuck at home doing NOTHING and we

> > can't think of her! How dare us!

> >

> > A few years ago my family decided to move out of state. My husband had a

> > great job, benefits and I enrolled in the university in the city. When my

> > mom and grandparents dropped me and my son (3-years-old at the time) off

> at

> > the airport she wouldn't even get out of the car or say good by. 'a

> fucking

> > goodbye is a fucking goodbye " was as good as it got.

> > The entire few months we were gone she called and sobbed on the phone for

> > HOURS, everyday, about how we were only leaving because we were selfish

> and

> > wanted money. One day, I received a card that was clearly meant for star

> > crossed and separated lovers. She sent it to me- to illustrate how much

> she

> > missed me! It was disgusting. She even tried talking me into getting a

> full

> > time job so I could pay her to watch our son- even though I was lucky to

> not

> > have had to work at the time.

> > After my grandparents suffered many health issues we decided to move

> back-

> > because my mom wouldn't take care of her parents. " I just have so much of

> my

> > own life, " she would say- even though her life consisted of working part

> > time and spending the rest of the day with her feet up, drinking coffee,

> > smoking ciggs and talking on the phone.

> >

> > Moving back was the worst thing-ever.

> >

> > The past six months has been the final straw. For Thanksgiving I cooked

> the

> > entire dinner and then packed it into her house- 2 miles away- because

> she

> > didn't feel like leaving her home. And then she whined because we didn't

> > bring our own plates- because it would cost her 50 cents in dish soap.

> She

> > couldn't even offer drinks- we had to bring that too! And we had to leave

> > her ample leftovers because she 'doesn't have money'- remember- I caused

> her

> > husband to leave her and she doesn't have any money because of it.

> >

> > It was mid-November that I took a job, fulltime at the newspaper I've

> > written for for nearly 6 years. That's really what set her off. I was no

> > longer at her beck and call. Even though I was working at home- my time

> was

> > never respected. She called 6-10 times a day and then bitch when I'd say

> I

> > have to get to work. I thought actually having to go to the office would

> > create some natural boundaries- she doesn't like that!

> >

> > After the first month I worked 60+ hour weeks with training and finding

> my

> > groove and during that time my husband was out of town with his job for

> two

> > weeks. Add in the holidays and we were dead beat tired.

> >

> > Freelancing, I didn't get more than a day off every two weeks so at

> > Christmastime, we decided to go skiing. My husband pulled his back and we

> > had to postpone our ski trip. On the Sunday we were going to go- we ended

> up

> > getting going too late and decided to spend the day, at home, just our

> > family.

> >

> > Well, mom wasn't about to let that happen. She called me 4 times, before

> > noon, to remind me that my husband had promised he would cut her some

> fire

> > wood. Her pile was running low. I told her that we would still be in to

> do

> > the chore- and he did tell her he would and is a man of his word- but

> that

> > it wouldn't be that day because we were spending a quiet day at home. The

> > first such day we've been able to have in YEARS.

> >

> > Instead of understanding, like a normal parent, that we need our family

> > time and I was stressed with the new job and the holidays- she blew up.

> You

> > know how nadas get the voice, twisting every word until your insides are

> > knotted up and you cave, just to cut your losses and move on -she

> informed

> > me 'to enjoy my fucking day with my family. I guess I'll just have to

> stay

> > home, alone, freezing. I guess I'll just have to turn my heater on. You

> may

> > have money to burn but I don't have money but I guess I'll have to turn

> my

> > heater on-there goes ALL my money. "

> >

> > I thought: fuck it: we'll go in, cut her fire wood and come home. Our

> kids

> > decided they'd stay home and play their new video games they got for

> > Christmas and we went in.

> >

> > Well, she was pleased as punch we came in but once she realized that I

> > hadn't come in to visit- that I was helping my man move the wood- because

> > his back still hurt- she got PISSED. She came out while I was sweeping

> off

> > her porch of wood shavings and told me " I'm done with you. I'm fucking

> done.

> > Get off my fucking property and go home. I'm done, had it with you and

> your

> > attitude. "

> >

> > We shrugged it off and went home.

> >

> > Next came New Year's Eve- I hadn't called and neither had she. A whole

> > blissful week of no contact.

> > On New Year's Day she called all three of us kids and informed us to have

> a

> > happy f-ing new year, that she was tired of our crap and that this was

> going

> > to be HER YEAR. Her message informed me that, after all I've done for

> you-

> > given you- and you can't do the right thing without having an

> > attitude...yada, yada, yada.

> >

> > We all ignored it.

> >

> > Then, the suicide threats started. This went on for over a week.My

> sisters

> > called the local 911 and police were sent to her house multiple times for

> > welfare checks- she was " fine " and they wouldn't commit her.

> >

> > Before she exploded over the fire-wood chopping incident she watched my

> > younger son a few times a week but once she snapped and started getting

> very

> > hateful. Taking her violent behavior in the past, I informed her that the

> > children would not be placed in the middle until she had her anger under

> > control and got help. My twin sister, who lives locally, gave her the

> same

> > mandate.

> >

> > To get back at me- she threatened to call Child Protective Services- not

> > because my children are in danger but to hurt me in response to her

> having

> > the police check in.

> >

> > She's made comments like " She'll have to suffer the consequences of

> keeping

> > the children from me, " and it chilled me to the bone.

> >

> > Now that her cycle seems to have run its course, this time, she's called

> > and left a few messages and emails. She's claiming that she's stepping

> out

> > of the " cycle of abuse " me and my sisters are supposedly putting her in.

> > She's also begging to see my youngest son. (my oldest doesn't really want

> to

> > put up with her shit) so he hasn't been mentioned.

> >

> > She's now saying " I've said I'm sorry and there's nothing I can do. It's

> > now in your control. Only you have the power for us to have a normal

> > mother/daughter relationship. That's what I've wanted all along, but it's

> up

> > to you. "

> >

> > I suggested a group counseling session but she's refused (although she

> says

> > she's seeing one and that this professional told her that her emotions

> are

> > validated and it sounds like we're manipulating her!) She " doesn't have

> to

> > disclose to us who her counselor is because this is HER journey' and I

> doubt

> > a counselor exists.

> >

> > So: are my feelings justified. I'm scared to death that she'll take off

> > with my son and disappear but on the other hand, feel maybe I'm being

> > paranoid and should try to be understanding of her mental illness....

> >

> > I need some input, quickly.

> >

> > I know that I need to focus on getting myself healthy. My nerves are shot

> > and I just keep gaining weight but I don't know what to do about my mom.

> >

> > Sorry my post is so long, it's one of the first such posting I've made

> here

> > and I really need some reassurance.

> >

> > Thank you!

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

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Hi Blair,

I'm so sorry for what your mother and stepfather put you and your sisters

through. No child deserves that kind of treatment.

This is just my own personal opinion for you to take or leave as it suits you,

but in my non-professional opinion its as though you were raised in a mini-cult;

your mother brainwashed you from birth to serve her, the cult-leader.

Your mother has been mistreating and exploiting you your whole life. You were

either her rival or a object she could use, and you were conditioned to obey

just to earn a tiny scrap of her approval. But the reality is that you are only

valuable to her as long as you meet her needs, otherwise you are discarded.

Your mother *is* dependent on you, but that's not the same as love.

In my opinion, nothing you describe has anything to do with love, on her part.

The more I read about the study of psychopathy, the more it seems to overlap

with the Cluster B disorders; the most chilling part is that those with

psychopathy are incapable of attaching (experiencing love) in a meaningful way

with other people. Although they are incapable of giving and receiving love in

the way that normal people are (other people's needs and feelings don't exist

for them) they are good mimics and can appear engaging and normal when it suits

them.

I hope you will seek therapy from a psychologist who is experienced treating the

adult survivors of child abuse. You have become trauma-bonded to your mother.

Trauma-bonding happens when a person who has complete power over you (like a

parent, or a kidnapper) alternates from being loving and kind to being your

tormentor. The switching back-and-forth from hurting you to rescuing you over

and over creates a trauma bond, and its like epoxy glue. Its a very unhealthy

bond.

Randi Kreger (who owns this list and wrote " Stop Walking On Eggshells " and other

books for those with a bpd person in their life) wrote that the children of

severely abusive parents seem to wind up either becoming totally enmeshed with

their abuser, or they run away fairly early. You and I both became enmeshed,

whereas our siblings broke away and escaped earlier.

If my nada and dad hadn't " dumped " me and moved away, I'd probably still be

enmeshed with nada.

My advice is to start reading up on trauma-bonding and co-dependency, and find a

therapist who specializes in treating the adult survivors of child abuse, who

can " deprogram " you from your cult-like attachment to someone who has never had

your best interest in her heart.

You have the right to a joyful, independent, self-actualized adult life, instead

of the semi-prison experience you've been having.

Eventually you may be able to care for your mother's needs from the safety of

emotional detachment from her and perhaps physical distance from her, utilizing

the safety of very low contact and strong boundaries.

But only, in my opinion, after a period of no contact at all so you can get

" deprogrammed " or " detoxed " from your unhealthy attachment to her.

Again, whether my advice resonates with you or not, I hope you will start

reading up and educating your self about borderline pd, trauma bonding and co

dependency, and I hope you will consider giving yourself the gift of seeking

therapy.

Nobody rescued you as a child, but you now have the power to rescue yourself.

" Degradation by someone who claims to love you is qualitatively different than

degradation by a stranger. "

- Ann Lawson, Ph.D.

" Trauma and Recovery " by Judith Herman

" Boundaries " by Cloud and Townsend

" Understanding The Borderline Mother " - Lawson

-Annie

>

> So-

>

> Long story short, my mother is BPD with narcissistic tendencies. She's always

been this way but it hasn't been until the last couple of years that myself,

twin sister and older sister have been able to pinpoint it.

>

> When I was 15, my stepfather molested me. I'm not minimizing the situation

but, unlike many victims who live with years of abuse- " it " only happened to me

twice.

>

> I know that what he did was terribly wrong but my mother and his relationship

wasn't good- sexually. Of course, she would fill me in with the details. We grew

up with the message that 'any hole will do,' 'sex is dirty and always bad, even

when you're married sex is only to meet a man's needs and to portray power over

a woman.'

>

> when my sisters and I became teenagers we weren't allowed to date, we weren't

allowed to go out with friends, go to the movies, have friends over, etc. We

weren't allowed to wear makeup or shave(when I brought up that I needed to shave

(badly) she snidely remarked 'why, are you ready to start fucking boys. I guess

you need to douche, too.' I didn't know what she was talking about. She dressed

all of us like paupers- and weren't poor but we were forced to wear old,

hand-me-down clothing that was always way too big on us- then she'd comment

about how fat we looked.

(edited for length)

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Hi! I just read everything and have been through everything you are talking

about but just the details are a little different. I am 45 years old and I

struggled with wanting to be away from my Mom since I was about 16. For me just

like you the guilt kept me from going NC although my heart longed for it. I

even secretly wished for the day she died so I would finally be free. When I

was 30 and had my first baby she became even more present in my life because she

was trying to bond with my innocent child since I was a lost cause. Her calls

got more frequent and because the calls were always so negative and just her

bashing me the whole time I became like the dog " Pavlov " and every time I heard

the phone ring I would start to have a mild panic attack not even knowing who

was calling. I had developed social anxiety so bad that I couldn't leave my

house and was having more extreme panic attacks. Then on her last visit I

noticed she started to treat my then 6 and 7 year sons like she use to treat me.

I think because they were starting to have their own opinions and would tell her

No. When I saw this I became a Mama Lion, I may not have been able to stick up

for myself but there was no way in Hell I was going to let her do to my kids

what she had done to me.

I knew I was at the end of my rope and I had to get her out of my life. But,

how??? How do we honor our Parents the way the Bible says if disown them? How

do I tell people I have a Mom but we don't have communication with her with out

them thinking that is so weird, or something is wrong with me?

Well, I was just sick about it, in the biggest decision I ever had to make. I

can't live anymore with her in my life, she is destroying me (literally) and how

can I live with out her the GUILT will destroy me? So I stopped and dropped to

my knees, and I prayed and I prayed and I cried and I prayed and bawled and

prayed for 3 weeks straight. I almost did nothing else but pray for those 3

weeks. Asking God what do I do????? After 3 weeks and I don't know how

religious you are but God loves the number 3. I went to Church on the 3rd Sunday

and I needed to go to the bathroom and was about to get up and the pastor said

that todays talk was going to be about what to do about people in our lives that

bring us down and make us feel bad and do it to make themselves feel better.

WHAT??? I have never heard a pastor ever talk about this before. I KNEW that

the Pastors next words were straight from God's mouth to my ears. I knew he was

speaking to me and answering my prayers from the last 3 weeks. I did not go to

the bathroom and I sat on the edge of my seat with my mouth hanging open the

whole hour and a half. Ha ha! My Pastor said there are people in the world who

take pleasure in bringing others down, that belittle others to make themselves

feel better about themselves. These people live to cut others down and be

negative because it somehow gives them power and helps them feel less terrible

about themselves. He gave many examples. Then he said.... " God does not want

you to constantly put yourself in harms way " " God wants you to live a full and

happy life " " You can love someone and pray for someone but they do not have to

be in your life to do that " He said " if there is someone in your life, it

doesn't matter who it is, that is keeping you from growing to your full

potential, someone who makes you feel down and bad about yourself, someone who

belittles you and cuts you down to make themselves feel better " " someone who

keeps you from living the full happy life that God intended you to have " He

said.... " WALK AWAY! " " MOVE " " CHANGE YOUR PHONE NUMBER " " DON " T LOOK BACK "

If someone is keeping you from being your best then how can you do the things

God wants you to do in this world? Be a good wife and Mother, help others,

thrive and do great things for the world? If someone is keeping you down then

you can't live your life in a way that's pleasing to God. Yes I makes him sad

when he sees our Nadas and Fadas suffering with their mental illnesses, but I

think it makes him twice as sad to see it causing others around them to suffer

as much or more. Sometimes you have to walk away and save yourself otherwise

there are two lives that are lost and not just the one.

Now after I heard all this I was so excited...it was my answer and it came

straight from God. I knew then I could go NC and I did. That was 3.5 years

ago. The first year I did feel a ton of Guilt so much so that on certain days

of the year like holidays and her birthday I felt like I was in a dream, like I

was everything was surreal. That first year was the hardest thing I ever had to

do. But the good news is I kept praying and kept working towards complete NC,

no more e-mails no more sending her Christmas cards...NC! and now I can honestly

say that the last 2.5 years of my life have been the happiest in my entire

life!!!! I want to sing like a bird for joy!!!! This is so much better than

wishing her to die to be out of my life. I pray for her and ask God to heal

her, take care of her, forgive her help her find her way. But then i let it

go....I try to never think about her. I know I will see her again in Heaven one

day and then she and I will be able to have that relationship that just wasn't

possible here on earth. God will take care of your Nada........... You need to

do what's right for you and your husband and kids!!!!! You are going to be so

amazed at the woman you become over the next few years away from her. If we had

only gotten taken away from them when we were babies, we might even be First

Female President...Ha ha, I'm kidding but I sometimes wonder if I grew this much

over the last 3.5 years and it took me till 45 to be amazing, what my life would

or could have been like if I had a loving Mother instead.

The other thing....I so know what you mean by thinking the molestation thing

didn't really effect you that much because it only happened twice....well I

thought the exact same thing because my Grand Dad only molested me once.....Girl

you are going to have to deal with that someday too. One thing at a time and

even though you don't think it meant that much you have no idea what is does to

you even once. I think I didn't think it was a big deal because my mind didn't

let me really go there and I had my Nada to think about and that was just too

much to try to deal with both at the same time. Once you get your Mother out of

your life and start to heal you will probably find that issues are coming up in

your life about the molestation. I think it's a self defense thing that we

can't take on too much at one time. For me I had great sex before marriage but

for some reason after I got married I thought my husband was a pervert to want

to have sex with me and we have had many sex issues come up in our marriage from

about the age of 30 on up. Do yourself and your husband a favor and get therapy

for that as soon as your able, even if you think you don't need it!!!!

Good Luck!!!!

>

> So-

>

> Long story short, my mother is BPD with narcissistic tendencies. She's always

been this way but it hasn't been until the last couple of years that myself,

twin sister and older sister have been able to pinpoint it.

>

> When I was 15, my stepfather molested me. I'm not minimizing the situation

but, unlike many victims who live with years of abuse- " it " only happened to me

twice.

>

> I know that what he did was terribly wrong but my mother and his relationship

wasn't good- sexually. Of course, she would fill me in with the details. We grew

up with the message that 'any hole will do,' 'sex is dirty and always bad, even

when you're married sex is only to meet a man's needs and to portray power over

a woman.'

>

> when my sisters and I became teenagers we weren't allowed to date, we weren't

allowed to go out with friends, go to the movies, have friends over, etc. We

weren't allowed to wear makeup or shave(when I brought up that I needed to shave

(badly) she snidely remarked 'why, are you ready to start fucking boys. I guess

you need to douche, too.' I didn't know what she was talking about. She dressed

all of us like paupers- and weren't poor but we were forced to wear old,

hand-me-down clothing that was always way too big on us- then she'd comment

about how fat we looked.

>

> Here recently, I tried to tell her how uncomfortable I was, as a child, to

have to hear about her and my step-father sex life (on the RARE occassion they

had sex) she'd tell me all about his semen running down her leg after they had

sex- when I brought it up and said it was too much information for a child (and

a daughter, period) she responded with " Well, I thought I could talk to you as a

mature adult. I guess you weren't mature and still aren't. If you'd rather: I'll

talk to you like a child. " (I'm nearly 30 years old!)

>

> After the abuse, my mother confided in me that she felt like I was " the other

woman. "

>

> While I knew it wasn't my fault, I've only realized now- nearly 15 years

later-that her statement about me being the other women placed me in a terrible

situation: living every day to serve her and prove that I was on her side. This

fed her need to have a submissive underling perfectly and I became her fiercest

defender.

>

> Instead of heading to law school (I'd already been accepted into several

prestigious pre-law programs in Washington D.C. and Stanford) but my mom never

told me about the programs and refused to let me go- I only recently found out

after she gave me misc. stuff from my school years and the acceptance letters

were kept) Instead of me and my sisters being let go to continue life after high

school she bemoaned that she was no longer needed and had she known we would

just " leave her anyway " she wouldn't have had children.

>

> Not surprisingly-At 17, looking for acceptance and having sex on my terms I

got pregnant (luckily, my marriage has been blessed and we've been together

since and have a (somewhat) happy family- even having another son.He's been

extremely patient with this process but it has added some distress- added to the

fact that my mother constantly berates me to divorce him and move in with her)

>

> After the pregnancy, my mom held me hostage. Not only did I ruin her life by

her marriage (which was never healthy) crumbling because of what happened now I

was pregnant " AND HOW COULD I DO THAT TO HER???? "

> So my burden was even greater.(I felt ashamed for getting pregnant. Here I

was- within the top five students of my graduating class, a National Honor

Society member, etc.While I was a teen mom I don't recommend it) Anyway, she

refused to let me move out-even though I had been able to graduate high school

early and had enrolled in community college. Although living with her my husband

supported me and was paying all of my living expenses, basically rent to my mom,

and my food, clothing, medical care, etc., At 7 months pregnant, we were engaged

I moved out. That was met with more drama and an even greater demand for

continuing penance to her. Even though once the pregnancy was announced and " I

was no longer her f-ing problem " she illegally claimed me on her tax return for

YEARS- even after I got married- because " I had to realize that since HER

husband was gone- she needed the few extra hundred dollars " (God forbid she get

a job) and denied my family the thousand of dollars it would have saved us. She

forced us to buy a car from her- because she had me believing that no one would

give me- a loser teen mom- a loan for a car and she was soooo generous- even

though the car cost us several thousand dollars more than it was worth.Again,

not only did we owe her for the car- we owed her for her allowing us to buy it.

She did us another " favor " a few years later by forcing us into purchasing a

piece of property she had- I didn't want it but she went to the county and filed

the paperwork indicating she was " gifting it " to us and then informing me that

it was my f-ing problem and that I owed her- this time for nearly twice what the

property was worth. This act was again met with more demands- if she needed

something we owed it to her, because jeeze- now I've caused her to lose her

husband and her private property.

>

> My selfworth was so poor and I felt bad for my mom. She had been a

stay-at-home mom (never let us forget it, that she had NO job skills because she

was raising US- so again, we owe her) that I let her control me. I also

(wrongly) stopped my husband from sticking up for us. I always thought- and I

think many can relate- that if I went along with her craziness that one day she

would be happy and I would be redeemed. I would be the good daughter I was

trained to be and allowed to fly free-like a healthy adult should.

>

> My older sister flew the coup early on, meeting someone online and moving back

east to visit- she never returned. I don't blame her.

>

> My twin sister's first husband entered the military and she left.

> Each time, my mom would go into a crazy tailspin.

>

> Although these milestones should be happy they weren't. High school

graduations, proms- even our weddings were cast in her shadow.

>

> Growing up, she broke all of my older sisters prized ceramic and keepsake

rabbit collection because she went out with our biological father for easter.

Instead of apologizing- it was my sister's fault- because: " How could YOU DO

THAT TO ME??? "

>

> For years, I was a slave for her. I did her grocery shopping, took her places

and was her primary social contact.I forced my husband and family to spend every

extra moment we had with her, because I felt guilty. Every year, when my husband

got a week vacation it was spent fixing things for her- because we owed her. He

got HER daughter pregnant and of course- redemption is earned by being

controlled- like a carrot on the stick. You do everything asked but never get

closer to the carrot- the prize-the freedom. The acknowledgment that we are

responsible adults.

>

> I helped her file her taxes, insurance paperwork job interviews, resumes and

cover letters. When she moved out from the home we grew up in- she blamed me for

her " having to move " she threw a vacuum cleaner at me (my son still remembers

that) because 'she couldn't get any help with the moving' even though I packed

almost everything up and my husband arranged for and paid for a van and lined up

his friends to do the heavy lifting. What she did do during her move was order

us to load stuff she suddenly didn't want- everything from furniture to clothing

and blankets, books, our childhood memorabilia- to be donated. Now, when she

looks for something that she gave away she accuses me stealing it.

>

> Of course, there were things too valuable to give away, that she didn't have

room for- a fenced dog run, riding lawn mower and misc. lawn care items and some

tools that I told her I didn't want but she insisted I take. Now, of course, I

owe her because of this " generosity "

>

> Even married, it took six years for my husband and family to be able to go

out for the afternoon without my feeling guilty or worried that she would be

upset for not knowing where I was going- or asking permission beforehand. Not a

dinner out would go unnoticed and I always got the riot act- what about her?

what about her life, she's stuck at home doing NOTHING and we can't think of

her! How dare us!

>

> A few years ago my family decided to move out of state. My husband had a great

job, benefits and I enrolled in the university in the city. When my mom and

grandparents dropped me and my son (3-years-old at the time) off at the airport

she wouldn't even get out of the car or say good by. 'a fucking goodbye is a

fucking goodbye " was as good as it got.

> The entire few months we were gone she called and sobbed on the phone for

HOURS, everyday, about how we were only leaving because we were selfish and

wanted money. One day, I received a card that was clearly meant for star crossed

and separated lovers. She sent it to me- to illustrate how much she missed me!

It was disgusting. She even tried talking me into getting a full time job so I

could pay her to watch our son- even though I was lucky to not have had to work

at the time.

> After my grandparents suffered many health issues we decided to move back-

because my mom wouldn't take care of her parents. " I just have so much of my own

life, " she would say- even though her life consisted of working part time and

spending the rest of the day with her feet up, drinking coffee, smoking ciggs

and talking on the phone.

>

> Moving back was the worst thing-ever.

>

> The past six months has been the final straw. For Thanksgiving I cooked the

entire dinner and then packed it into her house- 2 miles away- because she

didn't feel like leaving her home. And then she whined because we didn't bring

our own plates- because it would cost her 50 cents in dish soap. She couldn't

even offer drinks- we had to bring that too! And we had to leave her ample

leftovers because she 'doesn't have money'- remember- I caused her husband to

leave her and she doesn't have any money because of it.

>

> It was mid-November that I took a job, fulltime at the newspaper I've written

for for nearly 6 years. That's really what set her off. I was no longer at her

beck and call. Even though I was working at home- my time was never respected.

She called 6-10 times a day and then bitch when I'd say I have to get to work. I

thought actually having to go to the office would create some natural

boundaries- she doesn't like that!

>

> After the first month I worked 60+ hour weeks with training and finding my

groove and during that time my husband was out of town with his job for two

weeks. Add in the holidays and we were dead beat tired.

>

> Freelancing, I didn't get more than a day off every two weeks so at

Christmastime, we decided to go skiing. My husband pulled his back and we had to

postpone our ski trip. On the Sunday we were going to go- we ended up getting

going too late and decided to spend the day, at home, just our family.

>

> Well, mom wasn't about to let that happen. She called me 4 times, before noon,

to remind me that my husband had promised he would cut her some fire wood. Her

pile was running low. I told her that we would still be in to do the chore- and

he did tell her he would and is a man of his word- but that it wouldn't be that

day because we were spending a quiet day at home. The first such day we've been

able to have in YEARS.

>

> Instead of understanding, like a normal parent, that we need our family time

and I was stressed with the new job and the holidays- she blew up. You know how

nadas get the voice, twisting every word until your insides are knotted up and

you cave, just to cut your losses and move on -she informed me 'to enjoy my

fucking day with my family. I guess I'll just have to stay home, alone,

freezing. I guess I'll just have to turn my heater on. You may have money to

burn but I don't have money but I guess I'll have to turn my heater on-there

goes ALL my money. "

>

> I thought: fuck it: we'll go in, cut her fire wood and come home. Our kids

decided they'd stay home and play their new video games they got for Christmas

and we went in.

>

> Well, she was pleased as punch we came in but once she realized that I hadn't

come in to visit- that I was helping my man move the wood- because his back

still hurt- she got PISSED. She came out while I was sweeping off her porch of

wood shavings and told me " I'm done with you. I'm fucking done. Get off my

fucking property and go home. I'm done, had it with you and your attitude. "

>

> We shrugged it off and went home.

>

> Next came New Year's Eve- I hadn't called and neither had she. A whole

blissful week of no contact.

> On New Year's Day she called all three of us kids and informed us to have a

happy f-ing new year, that she was tired of our crap and that this was going to

be HER YEAR. Her message informed me that, after all I've done for you- given

you- and you can't do the right thing without having an attitude...yada, yada,

yada.

>

> We all ignored it.

>

> Then, the suicide threats started. This went on for over a week.My sisters

called the local 911 and police were sent to her house multiple times for

welfare checks- she was " fine " and they wouldn't commit her.

>

> Before she exploded over the fire-wood chopping incident she watched my

younger son a few times a week but once she snapped and started getting very

hateful. Taking her violent behavior in the past, I informed her that the

children would not be placed in the middle until she had her anger under control

and got help. My twin sister, who lives locally, gave her the same mandate.

>

> To get back at me- she threatened to call Child Protective Services- not

because my children are in danger but to hurt me in response to her having the

police check in.

>

> She's made comments like " She'll have to suffer the consequences of keeping

the children from me, " and it chilled me to the bone.

>

> Now that her cycle seems to have run its course, this time, she's called and

left a few messages and emails. She's claiming that she's stepping out of the

" cycle of abuse " me and my sisters are supposedly putting her in. She's also

begging to see my youngest son. (my oldest doesn't really want to put up with

her shit) so he hasn't been mentioned.

>

> She's now saying " I've said I'm sorry and there's nothing I can do. It's now

in your control. Only you have the power for us to have a normal mother/daughter

relationship. That's what I've wanted all along, but it's up to you. "

>

> I suggested a group counseling session but she's refused (although she says

she's seeing one and that this professional told her that her emotions are

validated and it sounds like we're manipulating her!) She " doesn't have to

disclose to us who her counselor is because this is HER journey' and I doubt a

counselor exists.

>

> So: are my feelings justified. I'm scared to death that she'll take off with

my son and disappear but on the other hand, feel maybe I'm being paranoid and

should try to be understanding of her mental illness....

>

> I need some input, quickly.

>

> I know that I need to focus on getting myself healthy. My nerves are shot and

I just keep gaining weight but I don't know what to do about my mom.

>

> Sorry my post is so long, it's one of the first such posting I've made here

and I really need some reassurance.

>

> Thank you!

>

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Thank you, all for your input.

I know it will be tough- but knowing that there are others, just like me, helps

to know that it will be okay.

> >

> > So-

> >

> > Long story short, my mother is BPD with narcissistic tendencies. She's

always been this way but it hasn't been until the last couple of years that

myself, twin sister and older sister have been able to pinpoint it.

> >

> > When I was 15, my stepfather molested me. I'm not minimizing the situation

but, unlike many victims who live with years of abuse- " it " only happened to me

twice.

> >

> > I know that what he did was terribly wrong but my mother and his

relationship wasn't good- sexually. Of course, she would fill me in with the

details. We grew up with the message that 'any hole will do,' 'sex is dirty and

always bad, even when you're married sex is only to meet a man's needs and to

portray power over a woman.'

> >

> > when my sisters and I became teenagers we weren't allowed to date, we

weren't allowed to go out with friends, go to the movies, have friends over,

etc. We weren't allowed to wear makeup or shave(when I brought up that I needed

to shave (badly) she snidely remarked 'why, are you ready to start fucking boys.

I guess you need to douche, too.' I didn't know what she was talking about. She

dressed all of us like paupers- and weren't poor but we were forced to wear old,

hand-me-down clothing that was always way too big on us- then she'd comment

about how fat we looked.

> >

> > Here recently, I tried to tell her how uncomfortable I was, as a child, to

have to hear about her and my step-father sex life (on the RARE occassion they

had sex) she'd tell me all about his semen running down her leg after they had

sex- when I brought it up and said it was too much information for a child (and

a daughter, period) she responded with " Well, I thought I could talk to you as a

mature adult. I guess you weren't mature and still aren't. If you'd rather: I'll

talk to you like a child. " (I'm nearly 30 years old!)

> >

> > After the abuse, my mother confided in me that she felt like I was " the

other woman. "

> >

> > While I knew it wasn't my fault, I've only realized now- nearly 15 years

later-that her statement about me being the other women placed me in a terrible

situation: living every day to serve her and prove that I was on her side. This

fed her need to have a submissive underling perfectly and I became her fiercest

defender.

> >

> > Instead of heading to law school (I'd already been accepted into several

prestigious pre-law programs in Washington D.C. and Stanford) but my mom never

told me about the programs and refused to let me go- I only recently found out

after she gave me misc. stuff from my school years and the acceptance letters

were kept) Instead of me and my sisters being let go to continue life after high

school she bemoaned that she was no longer needed and had she known we would

just " leave her anyway " she wouldn't have had children.

> >

> > Not surprisingly-At 17, looking for acceptance and having sex on my terms I

got pregnant (luckily, my marriage has been blessed and we've been together

since and have a (somewhat) happy family- even having another son.He's been

extremely patient with this process but it has added some distress- added to the

fact that my mother constantly berates me to divorce him and move in with her)

> >

> > After the pregnancy, my mom held me hostage. Not only did I ruin her life by

her marriage (which was never healthy) crumbling because of what happened now I

was pregnant " AND HOW COULD I DO THAT TO HER???? "

> > So my burden was even greater.(I felt ashamed for getting pregnant. Here I

was- within the top five students of my graduating class, a National Honor

Society member, etc.While I was a teen mom I don't recommend it) Anyway, she

refused to let me move out-even though I had been able to graduate high school

early and had enrolled in community college. Although living with her my husband

supported me and was paying all of my living expenses, basically rent to my mom,

and my food, clothing, medical care, etc., At 7 months pregnant, we were engaged

I moved out. That was met with more drama and an even greater demand for

continuing penance to her. Even though once the pregnancy was announced and " I

was no longer her f-ing problem " she illegally claimed me on her tax return for

YEARS- even after I got married- because " I had to realize that since HER

husband was gone- she needed the few extra hundred dollars " (God forbid she get

a job) and denied my family the thousand of dollars it would have saved us. She

forced us to buy a car from her- because she had me believing that no one would

give me- a loser teen mom- a loan for a car and she was soooo generous- even

though the car cost us several thousand dollars more than it was worth.Again,

not only did we owe her for the car- we owed her for her allowing us to buy it.

She did us another " favor " a few years later by forcing us into purchasing a

piece of property she had- I didn't want it but she went to the county and filed

the paperwork indicating she was " gifting it " to us and then informing me that

it was my f-ing problem and that I owed her- this time for nearly twice what the

property was worth. This act was again met with more demands- if she needed

something we owed it to her, because jeeze- now I've caused her to lose her

husband and her private property.

> >

> > My selfworth was so poor and I felt bad for my mom. She had been a

stay-at-home mom (never let us forget it, that she had NO job skills because she

was raising US- so again, we owe her) that I let her control me. I also

(wrongly) stopped my husband from sticking up for us. I always thought- and I

think many can relate- that if I went along with her craziness that one day she

would be happy and I would be redeemed. I would be the good daughter I was

trained to be and allowed to fly free-like a healthy adult should.

> >

> > My older sister flew the coup early on, meeting someone online and moving

back east to visit- she never returned. I don't blame her.

> >

> > My twin sister's first husband entered the military and she left.

> > Each time, my mom would go into a crazy tailspin.

> >

> > Although these milestones should be happy they weren't. High school

graduations, proms- even our weddings were cast in her shadow.

> >

> > Growing up, she broke all of my older sisters prized ceramic and keepsake

rabbit collection because she went out with our biological father for easter.

Instead of apologizing- it was my sister's fault- because: " How could YOU DO

THAT TO ME??? "

> >

> > For years, I was a slave for her. I did her grocery shopping, took her

places and was her primary social contact.I forced my husband and family to

spend every extra moment we had with her, because I felt guilty. Every year,

when my husband got a week vacation it was spent fixing things for her- because

we owed her. He got HER daughter pregnant and of course- redemption is earned by

being controlled- like a carrot on the stick. You do everything asked but never

get closer to the carrot- the prize-the freedom. The acknowledgment that we are

responsible adults.

> >

> > I helped her file her taxes, insurance paperwork job interviews, resumes

and cover letters. When she moved out from the home we grew up in- she blamed me

for her " having to move " she threw a vacuum cleaner at me (my son still

remembers that) because 'she couldn't get any help with the moving' even though

I packed almost everything up and my husband arranged for and paid for a van and

lined up his friends to do the heavy lifting. What she did do during her move

was order us to load stuff she suddenly didn't want- everything from furniture

to clothing and blankets, books, our childhood memorabilia- to be donated. Now,

when she looks for something that she gave away she accuses me stealing it.

> >

> > Of course, there were things too valuable to give away, that she didn't have

room for- a fenced dog run, riding lawn mower and misc. lawn care items and some

tools that I told her I didn't want but she insisted I take. Now, of course, I

owe her because of this " generosity "

> >

> > Even married, it took six years for my husband and family to be able to go

out for the afternoon without my feeling guilty or worried that she would be

upset for not knowing where I was going- or asking permission beforehand. Not a

dinner out would go unnoticed and I always got the riot act- what about her?

what about her life, she's stuck at home doing NOTHING and we can't think of

her! How dare us!

> >

> > A few years ago my family decided to move out of state. My husband had a

great job, benefits and I enrolled in the university in the city. When my mom

and grandparents dropped me and my son (3-years-old at the time) off at the

airport she wouldn't even get out of the car or say good by. 'a fucking goodbye

is a fucking goodbye " was as good as it got.

> > The entire few months we were gone she called and sobbed on the phone for

HOURS, everyday, about how we were only leaving because we were selfish and

wanted money. One day, I received a card that was clearly meant for star crossed

and separated lovers. She sent it to me- to illustrate how much she missed me!

It was disgusting. She even tried talking me into getting a full time job so I

could pay her to watch our son- even though I was lucky to not have had to work

at the time.

> > After my grandparents suffered many health issues we decided to move back-

because my mom wouldn't take care of her parents. " I just have so much of my own

life, " she would say- even though her life consisted of working part time and

spending the rest of the day with her feet up, drinking coffee, smoking ciggs

and talking on the phone.

> >

> > Moving back was the worst thing-ever.

> >

> > The past six months has been the final straw. For Thanksgiving I cooked the

entire dinner and then packed it into her house- 2 miles away- because she

didn't feel like leaving her home. And then she whined because we didn't bring

our own plates- because it would cost her 50 cents in dish soap. She couldn't

even offer drinks- we had to bring that too! And we had to leave her ample

leftovers because she 'doesn't have money'- remember- I caused her husband to

leave her and she doesn't have any money because of it.

> >

> > It was mid-November that I took a job, fulltime at the newspaper I've

written for for nearly 6 years. That's really what set her off. I was no longer

at her beck and call. Even though I was working at home- my time was never

respected. She called 6-10 times a day and then bitch when I'd say I have to get

to work. I thought actually having to go to the office would create some natural

boundaries- she doesn't like that!

> >

> > After the first month I worked 60+ hour weeks with training and finding my

groove and during that time my husband was out of town with his job for two

weeks. Add in the holidays and we were dead beat tired.

> >

> > Freelancing, I didn't get more than a day off every two weeks so at

Christmastime, we decided to go skiing. My husband pulled his back and we had to

postpone our ski trip. On the Sunday we were going to go- we ended up getting

going too late and decided to spend the day, at home, just our family.

> >

> > Well, mom wasn't about to let that happen. She called me 4 times, before

noon, to remind me that my husband had promised he would cut her some fire wood.

Her pile was running low. I told her that we would still be in to do the chore-

and he did tell her he would and is a man of his word- but that it wouldn't be

that day because we were spending a quiet day at home. The first such day we've

been able to have in YEARS.

> >

> > Instead of understanding, like a normal parent, that we need our family time

and I was stressed with the new job and the holidays- she blew up. You know how

nadas get the voice, twisting every word until your insides are knotted up and

you cave, just to cut your losses and move on -she informed me 'to enjoy my

fucking day with my family. I guess I'll just have to stay home, alone,

freezing. I guess I'll just have to turn my heater on. You may have money to

burn but I don't have money but I guess I'll have to turn my heater on-there

goes ALL my money. "

> >

> > I thought: fuck it: we'll go in, cut her fire wood and come home. Our kids

decided they'd stay home and play their new video games they got for Christmas

and we went in.

> >

> > Well, she was pleased as punch we came in but once she realized that I

hadn't come in to visit- that I was helping my man move the wood- because his

back still hurt- she got PISSED. She came out while I was sweeping off her porch

of wood shavings and told me " I'm done with you. I'm fucking done. Get off my

fucking property and go home. I'm done, had it with you and your attitude. "

> >

> > We shrugged it off and went home.

> >

> > Next came New Year's Eve- I hadn't called and neither had she. A whole

blissful week of no contact.

> > On New Year's Day she called all three of us kids and informed us to have a

happy f-ing new year, that she was tired of our crap and that this was going to

be HER YEAR. Her message informed me that, after all I've done for you- given

you- and you can't do the right thing without having an attitude...yada, yada,

yada.

> >

> > We all ignored it.

> >

> > Then, the suicide threats started. This went on for over a week.My sisters

called the local 911 and police were sent to her house multiple times for

welfare checks- she was " fine " and they wouldn't commit her.

> >

> > Before she exploded over the fire-wood chopping incident she watched my

younger son a few times a week but once she snapped and started getting very

hateful. Taking her violent behavior in the past, I informed her that the

children would not be placed in the middle until she had her anger under control

and got help. My twin sister, who lives locally, gave her the same mandate.

> >

> > To get back at me- she threatened to call Child Protective Services- not

because my children are in danger but to hurt me in response to her having the

police check in.

> >

> > She's made comments like " She'll have to suffer the consequences of keeping

the children from me, " and it chilled me to the bone.

> >

> > Now that her cycle seems to have run its course, this time, she's called and

left a few messages and emails. She's claiming that she's stepping out of the

" cycle of abuse " me and my sisters are supposedly putting her in. She's also

begging to see my youngest son. (my oldest doesn't really want to put up with

her shit) so he hasn't been mentioned.

> >

> > She's now saying " I've said I'm sorry and there's nothing I can do. It's now

in your control. Only you have the power for us to have a normal mother/daughter

relationship. That's what I've wanted all along, but it's up to you. "

> >

> > I suggested a group counseling session but she's refused (although she says

she's seeing one and that this professional told her that her emotions are

validated and it sounds like we're manipulating her!) She " doesn't have to

disclose to us who her counselor is because this is HER journey' and I doubt a

counselor exists.

> >

> > So: are my feelings justified. I'm scared to death that she'll take off with

my son and disappear but on the other hand, feel maybe I'm being paranoid and

should try to be understanding of her mental illness....

> >

> > I need some input, quickly.

> >

> > I know that I need to focus on getting myself healthy. My nerves are shot

and I just keep gaining weight but I don't know what to do about my mom.

> >

> > Sorry my post is so long, it's one of the first such posting I've made here

and I really need some reassurance.

> >

> > Thank you!

> >

>

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I have the deepest empathy for you. You've tried off and on to set healthy

boundaries only to have them smashed. You have gone way above and beyond to

help your mother and all you get are threats with CPS? Let her call CPS. In

most states, its a crime to file false charges. My mom filed false charges on

me with so many agencies. I had done nothing wrong so never feared a single

investigation. She said she had medical records to prove that we beat her up

causing a knife wound to her arm, that my ex had molested my kids, that we were

cheating on our taxes and defrauding the government. None of it was true so we

told her go ahead. We did however, have evidence of her defrauding Medicare and

let her know that we had the messages on our cell phone she accidentally dialed

looking for steve to pay up the $100 for the lortabs she sold him on Tuesday

last week (the message was dated). We played it for her and she hung up. no

more threats were made to turn us into any agencies. I went no contact right

after this and did have to file a restraining order because she threatened to

take my kids. She had this nasty habit of calling every night and leaving long

threatening voice mails until our phone recording devices were maxed out message

wise. We recorded all of them to a CD. We were granted the restraining order.

If you want to go no contact, do it. If she drops by, threatens you or

threatens the kids - file restraining order. Take care of as many preemptive

strikes as you can...have people witness everything you do and say concerning

her, record all interactions and tell your nada that you would like her consent

to you recording your conversations going forward - if she won't agree, don't

talk to her. When she threatens criminal activity, she is threatening you and

your family - do what you can to protect yourself. If you can move, move.

Change your phone numbers and never look back. Your nada does not deserve the

kind and loving soul that you are. I'm not a hateful person and I'm not even

angry with my nada but no human being deserves the vulgar, disgusting, inhuman

treatment she gave and gives you and expects you to be grateful for.

I hope that you are in counseling sweetie because this is way too much to handle

without one. You need a break from her madness so you can heal and take care of

you. I'm no counselor but I know that after 3 years of NC, I have peace...a

very happy and joyful life and the only thing that wrecks that is one someone

accidentally passes nada my phone number.

I so totally support your decision to consider NC with her. If any case is

right for NC, this one is it. If you don't, your health is at risk and your

beautiful babies need their sweet loving momma's full attention. Just know that

going NC makes it worse at first...I had to file an RO and that still didn't

stop her from calling and taunting me...I had to change all of my numbers and

move. When she hunts them down, that shows the courts malice on her part and

really wrecks her defense of " I'm a poor fragile unhealthy loving wonderful

mother and grandmother her loves her daughter so much and the evil heartless

demon spawn threw me out on the street because she wanted all of her money to

buy expensive clothes and shoes. I'm all alone in the world and have sacrificed

everything for her and this is how evil she is look at me? " Oh GAWD!

Disgusting. It would never fly now...I have evidence...never answer your phone

from her - let it go to voice mail - leaving a voice mail is consent to

recording and you can use them in court for ROs if necessary.

Protect you and your family. Do what you need to do for you and please Dear

God, don't listen to the fear, obligation and guilt insanity that will spew

forth from her pain twisted mouth.

May God bless you and keep you strong in this my dear. My heart and prayers

will be with you that you can get some peace for you and your own little family.

Jaie

If there is anything else I can do, please let me know.

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I have the deepest empathy for you. You've tried off and on to set healthy

boundaries only to have them smashed. You have gone way above and beyond to

help your mother and all you get are threats with CPS? Let her call CPS. In

most states, its a crime to file false charges. My mom filed false charges on

me with so many agencies. I had done nothing wrong so never feared a single

investigation. She said she had medical records to prove that we beat her up

causing a knife wound to her arm, that my ex had molested my kids, that we were

cheating on our taxes and defrauding the government. None of it was true so we

told her go ahead. We did however, have evidence of her defrauding Medicare and

let her know that we had the messages on our cell phone she accidentally dialed

looking for steve to pay up the $100 for the lortabs she sold him on Tuesday

last week (the message was dated). We played it for her and she hung up. no

more threats were made to turn us into any agencies. I went no contact right

after this and did have to file a restraining order because she threatened to

take my kids. She had this nasty habit of calling every night and leaving long

threatening voice mails until our phone recording devices were maxed out message

wise. We recorded all of them to a CD. We were granted the restraining order.

If you want to go no contact, do it. If she drops by, threatens you or

threatens the kids - file restraining order. Take care of as many preemptive

strikes as you can...have people witness everything you do and say concerning

her, record all interactions and tell your nada that you would like her consent

to you recording your conversations going forward - if she won't agree, don't

talk to her. When she threatens criminal activity, she is threatening you and

your family - do what you can to protect yourself. If you can move, move.

Change your phone numbers and never look back. Your nada does not deserve the

kind and loving soul that you are. I'm not a hateful person and I'm not even

angry with my nada but no human being deserves the vulgar, disgusting, inhuman

treatment she gave and gives you and expects you to be grateful for.

I hope that you are in counseling sweetie because this is way too much to handle

without one. You need a break from her madness so you can heal and take care of

you. I'm no counselor but I know that after 3 years of NC, I have peace...a

very happy and joyful life and the only thing that wrecks that is one someone

accidentally passes nada my phone number.

I so totally support your decision to consider NC with her. If any case is

right for NC, this one is it. If you don't, your health is at risk and your

beautiful babies need their sweet loving momma's full attention. Just know that

going NC makes it worse at first...I had to file an RO and that still didn't

stop her from calling and taunting me...I had to change all of my numbers and

move. When she hunts them down, that shows the courts malice on her part and

really wrecks her defense of " I'm a poor fragile unhealthy loving wonderful

mother and grandmother her loves her daughter so much and the evil heartless

demon spawn threw me out on the street because she wanted all of her money to

buy expensive clothes and shoes. I'm all alone in the world and have sacrificed

everything for her and this is how evil she is look at me? " Oh GAWD!

Disgusting. It would never fly now...I have evidence...never answer your phone

from her - let it go to voice mail - leaving a voice mail is consent to

recording and you can use them in court for ROs if necessary.

Protect you and your family. Do what you need to do for you and please Dear

God, don't listen to the fear, obligation and guilt insanity that will spew

forth from her pain twisted mouth.

May God bless you and keep you strong in this my dear. My heart and prayers

will be with you that you can get some peace for you and your own little family.

Jaie

If there is anything else I can do, please let me know.

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Jaie said it well!! You go girl!!! I love it! One more piece of advice I was

given in here years ago when I went NC that helped me a lot was this....

Before you have a chance to move call the phone company and have a second

phone line set up at your house. It's like $9. a month. Give your new number

only to people who won't give it to her. Keep the answering machine set up on

the old line that she has the number for and let her leave messages, Turn the

ringer off on that phone and the volume off so you don't have to listen...and

try not to, it only hurts to hear what they are saying. The reason this was so

helpful to me is that she had an outlet to yell and scream at me and she thought

I heard it so this satisfied her....with out her dropping by in person! We kept

this second line up till we moved then we totally cut her off, address and

everything, and I didn't have to fear her popping up on my door step any longer.

We lived further away from my Nada at that time than you do from yours, so yours

may still come on over, but this may make it less often. Then like Jaie said

you can use her messages to protect yourself against her in court if you ever

have to. Let your husband listen to them, it's better for you not to hear. Or

save them and listen on a day you are feeling guilty and wondering if you made

the right decision to go NC, then listen and you will be sure you did the right

thing.

>

> I have the deepest empathy for you. You've tried off and on to set healthy

boundaries only to have them smashed. You have gone way above and beyond to

help your mother and all you get are threats with CPS? Let her call CPS. In

most states, its a crime to file false charges. My mom filed false charges on

me with so many agencies. I had done nothing wrong so never feared a single

investigation. She said she had medical records to prove that we beat her up

causing a knife wound to her arm, that my ex had molested my kids, that we were

cheating on our taxes and defrauding the government. None of it was true so we

told her go ahead. We did however, have evidence of her defrauding Medicare and

let her know that we had the messages on our cell phone she accidentally dialed

looking for steve to pay up the $100 for the lortabs she sold him on Tuesday

last week (the message was dated). We played it for her and she hung up. no

more threats were made to turn us into any agencies. I went no contact right

after this and did have to file a restraining order because she threatened to

take my kids. She had this nasty habit of calling every night and leaving long

threatening voice mails until our phone recording devices were maxed out message

wise. We recorded all of them to a CD. We were granted the restraining order.

>

> If you want to go no contact, do it. If she drops by, threatens you or

threatens the kids - file restraining order. Take care of as many preemptive

strikes as you can...have people witness everything you do and say concerning

her, record all interactions and tell your nada that you would like her consent

to you recording your conversations going forward - if she won't agree, don't

talk to her. When she threatens criminal activity, she is threatening you and

your family - do what you can to protect yourself. If you can move, move.

Change your phone numbers and never look back. Your nada does not deserve the

kind and loving soul that you are. I'm not a hateful person and I'm not even

angry with my nada but no human being deserves the vulgar, disgusting, inhuman

treatment she gave and gives you and expects you to be grateful for.

>

> I hope that you are in counseling sweetie because this is way too much to

handle without one. You need a break from her madness so you can heal and take

care of you. I'm no counselor but I know that after 3 years of NC, I have

peace...a very happy and joyful life and the only thing that wrecks that is one

someone accidentally passes nada my phone number.

>

> I so totally support your decision to consider NC with her. If any case is

right for NC, this one is it. If you don't, your health is at risk and your

beautiful babies need their sweet loving momma's full attention. Just know that

going NC makes it worse at first...I had to file an RO and that still didn't

stop her from calling and taunting me...I had to change all of my numbers and

move. When she hunts them down, that shows the courts malice on her part and

really wrecks her defense of " I'm a poor fragile unhealthy loving wonderful

mother and grandmother her loves her daughter so much and the evil heartless

demon spawn threw me out on the street because she wanted all of her money to

buy expensive clothes and shoes. I'm all alone in the world and have sacrificed

everything for her and this is how evil she is look at me? " Oh GAWD!

Disgusting. It would never fly now...I have evidence...never answer your phone

from her - let it go to voice mail - leaving a voice mail is consent to

recording and you can use them in court for ROs if necessary.

>

> Protect you and your family. Do what you need to do for you and please Dear

God, don't listen to the fear, obligation and guilt insanity that will spew

forth from her pain twisted mouth.

>

> May God bless you and keep you strong in this my dear. My heart and prayers

will be with you that you can get some peace for you and your own little family.

>

> Jaie

>

> If there is anything else I can do, please let me know.

>

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Share on other sites

Jaie said it well!! You go girl!!! I love it! One more piece of advice I was

given in here years ago when I went NC that helped me a lot was this....

Before you have a chance to move call the phone company and have a second

phone line set up at your house. It's like $9. a month. Give your new number

only to people who won't give it to her. Keep the answering machine set up on

the old line that she has the number for and let her leave messages, Turn the

ringer off on that phone and the volume off so you don't have to listen...and

try not to, it only hurts to hear what they are saying. The reason this was so

helpful to me is that she had an outlet to yell and scream at me and she thought

I heard it so this satisfied her....with out her dropping by in person! We kept

this second line up till we moved then we totally cut her off, address and

everything, and I didn't have to fear her popping up on my door step any longer.

We lived further away from my Nada at that time than you do from yours, so yours

may still come on over, but this may make it less often. Then like Jaie said

you can use her messages to protect yourself against her in court if you ever

have to. Let your husband listen to them, it's better for you not to hear. Or

save them and listen on a day you are feeling guilty and wondering if you made

the right decision to go NC, then listen and you will be sure you did the right

thing.

>

> I have the deepest empathy for you. You've tried off and on to set healthy

boundaries only to have them smashed. You have gone way above and beyond to

help your mother and all you get are threats with CPS? Let her call CPS. In

most states, its a crime to file false charges. My mom filed false charges on

me with so many agencies. I had done nothing wrong so never feared a single

investigation. She said she had medical records to prove that we beat her up

causing a knife wound to her arm, that my ex had molested my kids, that we were

cheating on our taxes and defrauding the government. None of it was true so we

told her go ahead. We did however, have evidence of her defrauding Medicare and

let her know that we had the messages on our cell phone she accidentally dialed

looking for steve to pay up the $100 for the lortabs she sold him on Tuesday

last week (the message was dated). We played it for her and she hung up. no

more threats were made to turn us into any agencies. I went no contact right

after this and did have to file a restraining order because she threatened to

take my kids. She had this nasty habit of calling every night and leaving long

threatening voice mails until our phone recording devices were maxed out message

wise. We recorded all of them to a CD. We were granted the restraining order.

>

> If you want to go no contact, do it. If she drops by, threatens you or

threatens the kids - file restraining order. Take care of as many preemptive

strikes as you can...have people witness everything you do and say concerning

her, record all interactions and tell your nada that you would like her consent

to you recording your conversations going forward - if she won't agree, don't

talk to her. When she threatens criminal activity, she is threatening you and

your family - do what you can to protect yourself. If you can move, move.

Change your phone numbers and never look back. Your nada does not deserve the

kind and loving soul that you are. I'm not a hateful person and I'm not even

angry with my nada but no human being deserves the vulgar, disgusting, inhuman

treatment she gave and gives you and expects you to be grateful for.

>

> I hope that you are in counseling sweetie because this is way too much to

handle without one. You need a break from her madness so you can heal and take

care of you. I'm no counselor but I know that after 3 years of NC, I have

peace...a very happy and joyful life and the only thing that wrecks that is one

someone accidentally passes nada my phone number.

>

> I so totally support your decision to consider NC with her. If any case is

right for NC, this one is it. If you don't, your health is at risk and your

beautiful babies need their sweet loving momma's full attention. Just know that

going NC makes it worse at first...I had to file an RO and that still didn't

stop her from calling and taunting me...I had to change all of my numbers and

move. When she hunts them down, that shows the courts malice on her part and

really wrecks her defense of " I'm a poor fragile unhealthy loving wonderful

mother and grandmother her loves her daughter so much and the evil heartless

demon spawn threw me out on the street because she wanted all of her money to

buy expensive clothes and shoes. I'm all alone in the world and have sacrificed

everything for her and this is how evil she is look at me? " Oh GAWD!

Disgusting. It would never fly now...I have evidence...never answer your phone

from her - let it go to voice mail - leaving a voice mail is consent to

recording and you can use them in court for ROs if necessary.

>

> Protect you and your family. Do what you need to do for you and please Dear

God, don't listen to the fear, obligation and guilt insanity that will spew

forth from her pain twisted mouth.

>

> May God bless you and keep you strong in this my dear. My heart and prayers

will be with you that you can get some peace for you and your own little family.

>

> Jaie

>

> If there is anything else I can do, please let me know.

>

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Jaie,

Sounds like your Nada was more imposing than mine. Fortunately, she isn't coming

over and hasn't called.

My four-year-old son loves his grandma and still calls her out of the blue- up

until this point, she was an a constant in his life. That's what breaks my heart

the most. Underneath the mental illness, my mom can be very loving.

Unfortunately, the mental illness seems to be taking over more and more. She's

always had tendencies, but was on antidepressants, which kept it in check.

I'm hoping that she'll see the light but in the meantime, realizing that I have

to let go of the mom I want and accept the mom I have- whether or not she's in

my life- that's another question.

I'm so grateful for all the support here. I've heard people say they feel the

same things I and my sisters have felt for years- even the feelings of wishing

her dead so we could be free!

Each day gets better and I'm looking forward to going to therapy. My older

sister started two weeks ago.

Here's to better days ahead!

Thank you!

>

> I have the deepest empathy for you. You've tried off and on to set healthy

boundaries only to have them smashed. You have gone way above and beyond to

help your mother and all you get are threats with CPS? Let her call CPS. In

most states, its a crime to file false charges. My mom filed false charges on

me with so many agencies. I had done nothing wrong so never feared a single

investigation. She said she had medical records to prove that we beat her up

causing a knife wound to her arm, that my ex had molested my kids, that we were

cheating on our taxes and defrauding the government. None of it was true so we

told her go ahead. We did however, have evidence of her defrauding Medicare and

let her know that we had the messages on our cell phone she accidentally dialed

looking for steve to pay up the $100 for the lortabs she sold him on Tuesday

last week (the message was dated). We played it for her and she hung up. no

more threats were made to turn us into any agencies. I went no contact right

after this and did have to file a restraining order because she threatened to

take my kids. She had this nasty habit of calling every night and leaving long

threatening voice mails until our phone recording devices were maxed out message

wise. We recorded all of them to a CD. We were granted the restraining order.

>

> If you want to go no contact, do it. If she drops by, threatens you or

threatens the kids - file restraining order. Take care of as many preemptive

strikes as you can...have people witness everything you do and say concerning

her, record all interactions and tell your nada that you would like her consent

to you recording your conversations going forward - if she won't agree, don't

talk to her. When she threatens criminal activity, she is threatening you and

your family - do what you can to protect yourself. If you can move, move.

Change your phone numbers and never look back. Your nada does not deserve the

kind and loving soul that you are. I'm not a hateful person and I'm not even

angry with my nada but no human being deserves the vulgar, disgusting, inhuman

treatment she gave and gives you and expects you to be grateful for.

>

> I hope that you are in counseling sweetie because this is way too much to

handle without one. You need a break from her madness so you can heal and take

care of you. I'm no counselor but I know that after 3 years of NC, I have

peace...a very happy and joyful life and the only thing that wrecks that is one

someone accidentally passes nada my phone number.

>

> I so totally support your decision to consider NC with her. If any case is

right for NC, this one is it. If you don't, your health is at risk and your

beautiful babies need their sweet loving momma's full attention. Just know that

going NC makes it worse at first...I had to file an RO and that still didn't

stop her from calling and taunting me...I had to change all of my numbers and

move. When she hunts them down, that shows the courts malice on her part and

really wrecks her defense of " I'm a poor fragile unhealthy loving wonderful

mother and grandmother her loves her daughter so much and the evil heartless

demon spawn threw me out on the street because she wanted all of her money to

buy expensive clothes and shoes. I'm all alone in the world and have sacrificed

everything for her and this is how evil she is look at me? " Oh GAWD!

Disgusting. It would never fly now...I have evidence...never answer your phone

from her - let it go to voice mail - leaving a voice mail is consent to

recording and you can use them in court for ROs if necessary.

>

> Protect you and your family. Do what you need to do for you and please Dear

God, don't listen to the fear, obligation and guilt insanity that will spew

forth from her pain twisted mouth.

>

> May God bless you and keep you strong in this my dear. My heart and prayers

will be with you that you can get some peace for you and your own little family.

>

> Jaie

>

> If there is anything else I can do, please let me know.

>

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Jaie,

Sounds like your Nada was more imposing than mine. Fortunately, she isn't coming

over and hasn't called.

My four-year-old son loves his grandma and still calls her out of the blue- up

until this point, she was an a constant in his life. That's what breaks my heart

the most. Underneath the mental illness, my mom can be very loving.

Unfortunately, the mental illness seems to be taking over more and more. She's

always had tendencies, but was on antidepressants, which kept it in check.

I'm hoping that she'll see the light but in the meantime, realizing that I have

to let go of the mom I want and accept the mom I have- whether or not she's in

my life- that's another question.

I'm so grateful for all the support here. I've heard people say they feel the

same things I and my sisters have felt for years- even the feelings of wishing

her dead so we could be free!

Each day gets better and I'm looking forward to going to therapy. My older

sister started two weeks ago.

Here's to better days ahead!

Thank you!

>

> I have the deepest empathy for you. You've tried off and on to set healthy

boundaries only to have them smashed. You have gone way above and beyond to

help your mother and all you get are threats with CPS? Let her call CPS. In

most states, its a crime to file false charges. My mom filed false charges on

me with so many agencies. I had done nothing wrong so never feared a single

investigation. She said she had medical records to prove that we beat her up

causing a knife wound to her arm, that my ex had molested my kids, that we were

cheating on our taxes and defrauding the government. None of it was true so we

told her go ahead. We did however, have evidence of her defrauding Medicare and

let her know that we had the messages on our cell phone she accidentally dialed

looking for steve to pay up the $100 for the lortabs she sold him on Tuesday

last week (the message was dated). We played it for her and she hung up. no

more threats were made to turn us into any agencies. I went no contact right

after this and did have to file a restraining order because she threatened to

take my kids. She had this nasty habit of calling every night and leaving long

threatening voice mails until our phone recording devices were maxed out message

wise. We recorded all of them to a CD. We were granted the restraining order.

>

> If you want to go no contact, do it. If she drops by, threatens you or

threatens the kids - file restraining order. Take care of as many preemptive

strikes as you can...have people witness everything you do and say concerning

her, record all interactions and tell your nada that you would like her consent

to you recording your conversations going forward - if she won't agree, don't

talk to her. When she threatens criminal activity, she is threatening you and

your family - do what you can to protect yourself. If you can move, move.

Change your phone numbers and never look back. Your nada does not deserve the

kind and loving soul that you are. I'm not a hateful person and I'm not even

angry with my nada but no human being deserves the vulgar, disgusting, inhuman

treatment she gave and gives you and expects you to be grateful for.

>

> I hope that you are in counseling sweetie because this is way too much to

handle without one. You need a break from her madness so you can heal and take

care of you. I'm no counselor but I know that after 3 years of NC, I have

peace...a very happy and joyful life and the only thing that wrecks that is one

someone accidentally passes nada my phone number.

>

> I so totally support your decision to consider NC with her. If any case is

right for NC, this one is it. If you don't, your health is at risk and your

beautiful babies need their sweet loving momma's full attention. Just know that

going NC makes it worse at first...I had to file an RO and that still didn't

stop her from calling and taunting me...I had to change all of my numbers and

move. When she hunts them down, that shows the courts malice on her part and

really wrecks her defense of " I'm a poor fragile unhealthy loving wonderful

mother and grandmother her loves her daughter so much and the evil heartless

demon spawn threw me out on the street because she wanted all of her money to

buy expensive clothes and shoes. I'm all alone in the world and have sacrificed

everything for her and this is how evil she is look at me? " Oh GAWD!

Disgusting. It would never fly now...I have evidence...never answer your phone

from her - let it go to voice mail - leaving a voice mail is consent to

recording and you can use them in court for ROs if necessary.

>

> Protect you and your family. Do what you need to do for you and please Dear

God, don't listen to the fear, obligation and guilt insanity that will spew

forth from her pain twisted mouth.

>

> May God bless you and keep you strong in this my dear. My heart and prayers

will be with you that you can get some peace for you and your own little family.

>

> Jaie

>

> If there is anything else I can do, please let me know.

>

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Dear Blair,

I've read your post with a great deal of sympathy/empathy. Your nada seems to

be a combination of my own nada and npd father, swirled into one--and that

sounds truly horrific. I admire your fortitude in taking care of your own

family and maintaining your writing career, and I hope strongly that you will

make it to your grad degree some day. It's never too late, especially in modern

times.

I think that's the first thing I want to say to you. My np-Dad also actively

kept me from attending college, and I also had ivy league chances. This *is* a

thing, and it's unfortunately a recurring story among children of narcissists.

In my own case, Npd sent a mailed card saying his office had mailed one

application fee for me, then months later I got rejected by the college with a

letter saying they never received my fee. Another college I got into, and he

promised to pay (or help me finance however) the day I got in--then he reneged

after it was too late for me to get into any other good colleges. I ended up

going to a small in-state school I *never * would have chosen. But then, on my

own, I made it to grad school. It's never too late. There are many, many grad

students and law students in their 40s and even 50s. So, there's that.

Then there's the idea of being away from your nada, and how to accomplish NC

successfully. I believe that your nada is a molester, she is a sexual abuser;

and some distance from her, real distance--like, several months with no contact

at all--could help you to process that. There's a website out there called

" Making Daughters Safe Again " that I would hope you might check out. You might

find that you come to a place, after comprehending the extent of your nada's

abuse, that you no longer feel any guilt or pressure to see her again, and can

take steps to protect yourself and your family fully.

There are steps along the way to no contact, also. What stages one is ready

for. (And I do know that protecting your children, especially from a

nada-kidnapping, is going to be among your paramount concerns). One option is

limiting phone calls to once a week--informing nada you will call at such and

such time, each week, and sticking to it firmly. An option is to limit all

contact to email only. An earlier level option is to make rules--you'll never

be alone with her; or never alone in a car; or never allow your children to be

alone with her (EVER).

I personally started with the lesser options, and then found more and more

severe options to be necessary, as nada reacted so insanely and disrespectfully

to the limits I did set, and as in the safe distance I realized the extent of

what nada had done (and ndm too), and just how very dangerous contact WAS, for

me. Blair, it might be that you are on a path to complete no contact, which

would involve moving away to another city or even state, and making sure that

noone who knows nada gives me any contact information about your children. I

know that you are far from that, and that such a decision involves more people

than you (husband, kids changing schools, very bad economy, etc.) For now I

just want to throw the option out there to you as a future possibility that

truly IS possible. Some of us do manage to cut off nada, and all nada access,

in its entirety, when it proves necessary; and that IS a valid choice,

especially when nada is a child molester (even if her actions were just verbal;

even if she did it " passively " by allowing someone else to do it to you

instead--these are how Cluster Bs do such things--but they ARE still doing

them).

Again, I am not pressuring you towards any particular course of action, just

validating your experience by saying yes, it is real, it happens to other KOs

too and is not atypical; and just listing to you some of the possibilities you

might consider on the road to further healing and NC. In my case, I ended up

finally going to a *good* grad school and starting a good career, and I have

reached a place of freedom and happiness, and largely, of peace. But I've had

to move far away from all of them, become an orphan really, and cut off contact

with my entire family--because they are not reliable. They would tell nada and

nd-Dad and also my very violent ex-husband of my address and whereabouts and

life in a heartbeat. This is not something that everyone can do or should do,

but I had to. For me, being in contact with my FOO so very limited and crippled

my emotional capacity that I was not even a functional person whilst in contact

with them. For me it was a question of survival alone, not even any right to

'thrive' or such. Since you have a supportive husband, you might not need to

make such drastic changes as I've had to, but I do urge you to find the level of

NC with your nada that makes wholeness, happiness and emotional health possible

for you, whatever that it.

Best wishes,

Charlie

> >

> > Run.

> >

> > YOUR family is important. Your mother only wants to control you, control

your life and your kids life.

> >

> > Too bad you didn't live further away, you may end up getting stalked.

> >

> > You don't deserve that shit, no one does. You wouldn't put up with it from

someone that didn't give birth to you right? If a stranger came up to you and

started talking to you like that? What would you do?

> >

> > So what gives *her* special rights to abuse you and your family like that?

Because you had the misfortune to emerge from HER uterus? I don't think so.

> >

> > Cut off ties and don't look back. Document everything that happened to you,

and will happen. That way if CPS is contacted they have the whole picture, on

paper. Have the foresight to think that she will contact the CPS. Your eldest

won't put up with her right? So, right there the kid and your husband can back

you up.

> >

> >

> >

>

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Dear Blair,

I've read your post with a great deal of sympathy/empathy. Your nada seems to

be a combination of my own nada and npd father, swirled into one--and that

sounds truly horrific. I admire your fortitude in taking care of your own

family and maintaining your writing career, and I hope strongly that you will

make it to your grad degree some day. It's never too late, especially in modern

times.

I think that's the first thing I want to say to you. My np-Dad also actively

kept me from attending college, and I also had ivy league chances. This *is* a

thing, and it's unfortunately a recurring story among children of narcissists.

In my own case, Npd sent a mailed card saying his office had mailed one

application fee for me, then months later I got rejected by the college with a

letter saying they never received my fee. Another college I got into, and he

promised to pay (or help me finance however) the day I got in--then he reneged

after it was too late for me to get into any other good colleges. I ended up

going to a small in-state school I *never * would have chosen. But then, on my

own, I made it to grad school. It's never too late. There are many, many grad

students and law students in their 40s and even 50s. So, there's that.

Then there's the idea of being away from your nada, and how to accomplish NC

successfully. I believe that your nada is a molester, she is a sexual abuser;

and some distance from her, real distance--like, several months with no contact

at all--could help you to process that. There's a website out there called

" Making Daughters Safe Again " that I would hope you might check out. You might

find that you come to a place, after comprehending the extent of your nada's

abuse, that you no longer feel any guilt or pressure to see her again, and can

take steps to protect yourself and your family fully.

There are steps along the way to no contact, also. What stages one is ready

for. (And I do know that protecting your children, especially from a

nada-kidnapping, is going to be among your paramount concerns). One option is

limiting phone calls to once a week--informing nada you will call at such and

such time, each week, and sticking to it firmly. An option is to limit all

contact to email only. An earlier level option is to make rules--you'll never

be alone with her; or never alone in a car; or never allow your children to be

alone with her (EVER).

I personally started with the lesser options, and then found more and more

severe options to be necessary, as nada reacted so insanely and disrespectfully

to the limits I did set, and as in the safe distance I realized the extent of

what nada had done (and ndm too), and just how very dangerous contact WAS, for

me. Blair, it might be that you are on a path to complete no contact, which

would involve moving away to another city or even state, and making sure that

noone who knows nada gives me any contact information about your children. I

know that you are far from that, and that such a decision involves more people

than you (husband, kids changing schools, very bad economy, etc.) For now I

just want to throw the option out there to you as a future possibility that

truly IS possible. Some of us do manage to cut off nada, and all nada access,

in its entirety, when it proves necessary; and that IS a valid choice,

especially when nada is a child molester (even if her actions were just verbal;

even if she did it " passively " by allowing someone else to do it to you

instead--these are how Cluster Bs do such things--but they ARE still doing

them).

Again, I am not pressuring you towards any particular course of action, just

validating your experience by saying yes, it is real, it happens to other KOs

too and is not atypical; and just listing to you some of the possibilities you

might consider on the road to further healing and NC. In my case, I ended up

finally going to a *good* grad school and starting a good career, and I have

reached a place of freedom and happiness, and largely, of peace. But I've had

to move far away from all of them, become an orphan really, and cut off contact

with my entire family--because they are not reliable. They would tell nada and

nd-Dad and also my very violent ex-husband of my address and whereabouts and

life in a heartbeat. This is not something that everyone can do or should do,

but I had to. For me, being in contact with my FOO so very limited and crippled

my emotional capacity that I was not even a functional person whilst in contact

with them. For me it was a question of survival alone, not even any right to

'thrive' or such. Since you have a supportive husband, you might not need to

make such drastic changes as I've had to, but I do urge you to find the level of

NC with your nada that makes wholeness, happiness and emotional health possible

for you, whatever that it.

Best wishes,

Charlie

> >

> > Run.

> >

> > YOUR family is important. Your mother only wants to control you, control

your life and your kids life.

> >

> > Too bad you didn't live further away, you may end up getting stalked.

> >

> > You don't deserve that shit, no one does. You wouldn't put up with it from

someone that didn't give birth to you right? If a stranger came up to you and

started talking to you like that? What would you do?

> >

> > So what gives *her* special rights to abuse you and your family like that?

Because you had the misfortune to emerge from HER uterus? I don't think so.

> >

> > Cut off ties and don't look back. Document everything that happened to you,

and will happen. That way if CPS is contacted they have the whole picture, on

paper. Have the foresight to think that she will contact the CPS. Your eldest

won't put up with her right? So, right there the kid and your husband can back

you up.

> >

> >

> >

>

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>

> Here recently, I tried to tell her how uncomfortable I was, as a

child, to have to hear about her and my step-father sex life (on the

RARE occassion they had sex) she'd tell me all about his semen running

down her leg after they had sex- when I brought it up and said it was

too much information for a child (and a daughter, period) she responded

with " Well, I thought I could talk to you as a mature adult. I guess you

weren't mature and still aren't. If you'd rather: I'll talk to you like

a child. " (I'm nearly 30 years old!)

This is one of the pieces of self excusing behaviors they are so fond of

using. I m 55 years old. I would not have that conversation with

another adult, let alone a child. It is simply crude, vulgar and

inappropriate. My own nada assualted me with TMI about sex and her sex

life with my dad, despite my repeated requests for her to stop it. It

had nothing to do with adulthood. It is a form of sexual abuse. It is

emotional incest. And it took me years to finally draw hard boundaries

and say you will not do that anymore.

> After the pregnancy, my mom held me hostage. Not only did I ruin her

life by her marriage (which was never healthy) crumbling because of what

happened now I was pregnant " AND HOW COULD I DO THAT TO HER???? "

> So my burden was even greater.(I felt ashamed for > The entire few

months we were gone she called and sobbed on the phone for HOURS,

everyday, about how we were only leaving because we were selfish and

wanted money. One day, I received a card that was clearly meant for star

crossed and separated lovers. She sentit to me- to illustrate how much

she missed me! It was disgusting.

They do not respect our limits or boundaries. Everything is all about

her, and nothing is her fault. BP s leave a shattered trail of broken

relationships. No one can tolerate them forever. They are mostly

terribly inappropriate, as your card illustrates.

>> Instead of understanding, like a normal parent, that we need our

family time and I was stressed with the new job and the holidays- she

blew up. You know how nadas get the voice, twisting every word until

your insides are knotted up and you cave, just to cut your losses and

move on -she informed me 'to enjoy my fucking day with my family. I

guess I'll just have to stay home, alone, freezing. I guess I'll just

have to turn my heater on. You may have money to burn but I don't have

money but I guess I'll have to turn my heater on-there goes ALL my

money. "

Your mistake is to play the game. Once you play, you will lose. She

will always win. The solution is never to play. It is not your

responsibility if she is irresponsible with her money and gets in

trouble. Most normal people DO turn on thier heat when it is cold,

go to work so they can pay for the heat, and do not begrudge a family a

day together, making that about the heat in her house.

I would have interupted her hard right after enjoy your f ing day with

your family...MOM..MOM...HEY! I will enjoy my day with my family. I

ll talk to you later. And I do not appreciate you using that sort of

language with me. When you do so , I m going to leave or hang up on

you. So if you want to talk to me, ever, think about that. Then at

once hang up. She won t like it. But you have to change the game. The

game is not about her needs, tho she will always make it so. It is

about her total failure to respect you, give you the courtesy to respect

your needs and priorities, and her constant choice to manipulate you.

Want to win? Then refuse to play.

>

> I thought: fuck it: we'll go in, cut her fire wood and come home. Our

kids decided they'd stay home and play their new video games they got

for Christmas and we went in.

>

> Well, she was pleased as punch we came in but once she realized that I

hadn't come in to visit- that I was helping my man move the wood-

because his back still hurt- she got PISSED. She came out while I was

sweeping off her porch of wood shavings and told me " I'm done with you.

I'm fucking done. Get off my fucking property and go home. I'm done, had

it with you and your attitude. "

>

> We shrugged it off and went home.

Do NOT shrug it off. Think about this. If any other human being

treated you that way, you would say F it, and say have a nice life. Cut

your own damn wood. I m not going to come help you and be abused at the

same time.

> Then, the suicide threats started. This went on for over a week.My

sisters called the local 911 and police were sent to her house multiple

times for welfare checks- she was " fine " and they wouldn't commit her.

My nada used suicide ideations to manipulate me for decades. It is

very , very hard to get mental health pros to commit a BP. If one of

them hears her suicide threat, they can, with 2 MD s concurring, order

a 24 hour hold. But usually unless they actually make a serious

attempt, nothing is done. Some BP s will commit suicide. Far more

with threaten their families with it to manipulate them. You can: Be

manipulated. or, 2. Call police every single time and send them to her

home. Or 3. Suggest she needs to get counseling. ( which she won t, of

course. ) or 4. Say , mom, I hope you won t commit suicide. But I can

t stop you, If you do, it will not be my fault, it will be your choice.

If you wont get help, and do it, then it is all on you. I m not going

to live my life just to keep you from threatening suicide.

Parenthically, most suicides don t hysterically tell their kids I m

gonna f in kill myself. Bullshit. That sort of stuff is pure damn

manipulation.

>

> Before she exploded over the fire-wood chopping incident she watched

my younger son a few times a week but once she snapped and started

getting very hateful. Taking her violent behavior in the past, I

informed her that the children would not be placed in the middle until

she had her anger under control and got help. My twin sister, who lives

locally, gave her the same mandate.

I was a child raised by a BPD mother. I ll share with you my thoughts ,

which I have shared on here many times with others. NEVER , EVER ,

under any circumstances whatsoever, leave any child with a BP. NEVER.

NEVER. Did I mention, NEVER.

>

> To get back at me- she threatened to call Child Protective Services-

not because my children are in danger but to hurt me in response to her

having the police check in.

Let me say this delicately . Call them , Bitch. They get lots of

calls. They screen what they consider legitimate threats and vindictive

calls. If they do get a call and feel the need to investigate, they do

just that. Once they determine there is no issue, they close the case

and move on. They are not some kind of storm troopers just waiting for

a call from some psycho bitch so they can go snatch kids.

> She's made comments like " She'll have to suffer the consequences of

keeping the children from me, " and it chilled me to the bone.

>

> Now that her cycle seems to have run its course, this time, she's

called and left a few messages and emails. She's claiming that she's

stepping out of the " cycle of abuse " me and my sisters are supposedly

putting her in. She's also begging to see my youngest son. (my oldest

doesn't really want to put up with her shit) so he hasn't been

mentioned.

I repeat, if you care at all for any child , NEVER NEVER,NEVER under

any circumstances whatsoever, leave any child with a BP. If they

choose to see them once they are adults, have at it. But now YOU are the

adult. You are the one who can protect them. Do it.

>

> She's now saying " I've said I'm sorry and there's nothing I can do.

It's now in your control. Only you have the power for us to have a

normal mother/daughter relationship. That's what I've wanted all along,

but it's up to you. "

Answer? Mom, you have said you are sorry for 30 years, but you continue

to do the same things. I don t have the power to create a normal

relationship between us. Niether do you, unless you get some

professional help with your issues. If that is really what you want,

then get into counseling and maybe we can have it. If not, then this

is just more meaningless words. I m NOT going to let you manipulate me.

I m going to choose what is healthy for me, and for my family.

>

> I suggested a group counseling session but she's refused (although she

says she's seeing one and that this professional told her that her

emotions are validated and it sounds like we're manipulating her!) She

" doesn't have to disclose to us who her counselor is because this is HER

journey' and I doubt a counselor exists.

I went thru this with nada. When she was in counseling and once when

she was in a psych hosp, 2 diffferent counselors tried to get her in

family counseling sessions. She pouted, played games, showed up35

minutes late for an hour session. When she told me how the shrink or

counselor told her she was right, and everyone else was wrong, I did not

believe her, and she would not give permission for us to talk, or agree

to family sessions.

Of COURSE she is lying. Or if you prefer, gaslighting, remembering it

differently from reality. But even if it were true, so what? Her

emotions , valid or not, do NOT give her license to manipulate you and

treat you so poorly.

But I ll give you long, long odds, no legitimate counselor ever said any

such thing. Counselors despise getting BPs. They are the very

hardest patients they get to treat. Most will limit the number of BP

pts they will see at any one time.

>

> So: are my feelings justified. I'm scared to death that she'll take

off with my son and disappear but on the other hand, feel maybe I'm

being paranoid and should try to be understanding of her mental

illness....

>

> I need some input, quickly.

>

> I know that I need to focus on getting myself healthy. My nerves are

shot and I just keep gaining weight but I don't know what to do about my

mom.

Solid, concrete advice:

1. Read Stop Walking on Eggshells.

2. Find yourself a good counselor

3. Read Boundaries.

4. Set boundaries with your mom. Establish the consequences of her

violating them. ( rage at me, I won t talk to you for a week. Talk

about sex with TMI, I ll hang up the phone. ect. )

5. Decide, you DO have the right to have a life. You do not owe her

your life, your family, or your happiness. You simply don t.

Good luck

Doug

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>

> Here recently, I tried to tell her how uncomfortable I was, as a

child, to have to hear about her and my step-father sex life (on the

RARE occassion they had sex) she'd tell me all about his semen running

down her leg after they had sex- when I brought it up and said it was

too much information for a child (and a daughter, period) she responded

with " Well, I thought I could talk to you as a mature adult. I guess you

weren't mature and still aren't. If you'd rather: I'll talk to you like

a child. " (I'm nearly 30 years old!)

This is one of the pieces of self excusing behaviors they are so fond of

using. I m 55 years old. I would not have that conversation with

another adult, let alone a child. It is simply crude, vulgar and

inappropriate. My own nada assualted me with TMI about sex and her sex

life with my dad, despite my repeated requests for her to stop it. It

had nothing to do with adulthood. It is a form of sexual abuse. It is

emotional incest. And it took me years to finally draw hard boundaries

and say you will not do that anymore.

> After the pregnancy, my mom held me hostage. Not only did I ruin her

life by her marriage (which was never healthy) crumbling because of what

happened now I was pregnant " AND HOW COULD I DO THAT TO HER???? "

> So my burden was even greater.(I felt ashamed for > The entire few

months we were gone she called and sobbed on the phone for HOURS,

everyday, about how we were only leaving because we were selfish and

wanted money. One day, I received a card that was clearly meant for star

crossed and separated lovers. She sentit to me- to illustrate how much

she missed me! It was disgusting.

They do not respect our limits or boundaries. Everything is all about

her, and nothing is her fault. BP s leave a shattered trail of broken

relationships. No one can tolerate them forever. They are mostly

terribly inappropriate, as your card illustrates.

>> Instead of understanding, like a normal parent, that we need our

family time and I was stressed with the new job and the holidays- she

blew up. You know how nadas get the voice, twisting every word until

your insides are knotted up and you cave, just to cut your losses and

move on -she informed me 'to enjoy my fucking day with my family. I

guess I'll just have to stay home, alone, freezing. I guess I'll just

have to turn my heater on. You may have money to burn but I don't have

money but I guess I'll have to turn my heater on-there goes ALL my

money. "

Your mistake is to play the game. Once you play, you will lose. She

will always win. The solution is never to play. It is not your

responsibility if she is irresponsible with her money and gets in

trouble. Most normal people DO turn on thier heat when it is cold,

go to work so they can pay for the heat, and do not begrudge a family a

day together, making that about the heat in her house.

I would have interupted her hard right after enjoy your f ing day with

your family...MOM..MOM...HEY! I will enjoy my day with my family. I

ll talk to you later. And I do not appreciate you using that sort of

language with me. When you do so , I m going to leave or hang up on

you. So if you want to talk to me, ever, think about that. Then at

once hang up. She won t like it. But you have to change the game. The

game is not about her needs, tho she will always make it so. It is

about her total failure to respect you, give you the courtesy to respect

your needs and priorities, and her constant choice to manipulate you.

Want to win? Then refuse to play.

>

> I thought: fuck it: we'll go in, cut her fire wood and come home. Our

kids decided they'd stay home and play their new video games they got

for Christmas and we went in.

>

> Well, she was pleased as punch we came in but once she realized that I

hadn't come in to visit- that I was helping my man move the wood-

because his back still hurt- she got PISSED. She came out while I was

sweeping off her porch of wood shavings and told me " I'm done with you.

I'm fucking done. Get off my fucking property and go home. I'm done, had

it with you and your attitude. "

>

> We shrugged it off and went home.

Do NOT shrug it off. Think about this. If any other human being

treated you that way, you would say F it, and say have a nice life. Cut

your own damn wood. I m not going to come help you and be abused at the

same time.

> Then, the suicide threats started. This went on for over a week.My

sisters called the local 911 and police were sent to her house multiple

times for welfare checks- she was " fine " and they wouldn't commit her.

My nada used suicide ideations to manipulate me for decades. It is

very , very hard to get mental health pros to commit a BP. If one of

them hears her suicide threat, they can, with 2 MD s concurring, order

a 24 hour hold. But usually unless they actually make a serious

attempt, nothing is done. Some BP s will commit suicide. Far more

with threaten their families with it to manipulate them. You can: Be

manipulated. or, 2. Call police every single time and send them to her

home. Or 3. Suggest she needs to get counseling. ( which she won t, of

course. ) or 4. Say , mom, I hope you won t commit suicide. But I can

t stop you, If you do, it will not be my fault, it will be your choice.

If you wont get help, and do it, then it is all on you. I m not going

to live my life just to keep you from threatening suicide.

Parenthically, most suicides don t hysterically tell their kids I m

gonna f in kill myself. Bullshit. That sort of stuff is pure damn

manipulation.

>

> Before she exploded over the fire-wood chopping incident she watched

my younger son a few times a week but once she snapped and started

getting very hateful. Taking her violent behavior in the past, I

informed her that the children would not be placed in the middle until

she had her anger under control and got help. My twin sister, who lives

locally, gave her the same mandate.

I was a child raised by a BPD mother. I ll share with you my thoughts ,

which I have shared on here many times with others. NEVER , EVER ,

under any circumstances whatsoever, leave any child with a BP. NEVER.

NEVER. Did I mention, NEVER.

>

> To get back at me- she threatened to call Child Protective Services-

not because my children are in danger but to hurt me in response to her

having the police check in.

Let me say this delicately . Call them , Bitch. They get lots of

calls. They screen what they consider legitimate threats and vindictive

calls. If they do get a call and feel the need to investigate, they do

just that. Once they determine there is no issue, they close the case

and move on. They are not some kind of storm troopers just waiting for

a call from some psycho bitch so they can go snatch kids.

> She's made comments like " She'll have to suffer the consequences of

keeping the children from me, " and it chilled me to the bone.

>

> Now that her cycle seems to have run its course, this time, she's

called and left a few messages and emails. She's claiming that she's

stepping out of the " cycle of abuse " me and my sisters are supposedly

putting her in. She's also begging to see my youngest son. (my oldest

doesn't really want to put up with her shit) so he hasn't been

mentioned.

I repeat, if you care at all for any child , NEVER NEVER,NEVER under

any circumstances whatsoever, leave any child with a BP. If they

choose to see them once they are adults, have at it. But now YOU are the

adult. You are the one who can protect them. Do it.

>

> She's now saying " I've said I'm sorry and there's nothing I can do.

It's now in your control. Only you have the power for us to have a

normal mother/daughter relationship. That's what I've wanted all along,

but it's up to you. "

Answer? Mom, you have said you are sorry for 30 years, but you continue

to do the same things. I don t have the power to create a normal

relationship between us. Niether do you, unless you get some

professional help with your issues. If that is really what you want,

then get into counseling and maybe we can have it. If not, then this

is just more meaningless words. I m NOT going to let you manipulate me.

I m going to choose what is healthy for me, and for my family.

>

> I suggested a group counseling session but she's refused (although she

says she's seeing one and that this professional told her that her

emotions are validated and it sounds like we're manipulating her!) She

" doesn't have to disclose to us who her counselor is because this is HER

journey' and I doubt a counselor exists.

I went thru this with nada. When she was in counseling and once when

she was in a psych hosp, 2 diffferent counselors tried to get her in

family counseling sessions. She pouted, played games, showed up35

minutes late for an hour session. When she told me how the shrink or

counselor told her she was right, and everyone else was wrong, I did not

believe her, and she would not give permission for us to talk, or agree

to family sessions.

Of COURSE she is lying. Or if you prefer, gaslighting, remembering it

differently from reality. But even if it were true, so what? Her

emotions , valid or not, do NOT give her license to manipulate you and

treat you so poorly.

But I ll give you long, long odds, no legitimate counselor ever said any

such thing. Counselors despise getting BPs. They are the very

hardest patients they get to treat. Most will limit the number of BP

pts they will see at any one time.

>

> So: are my feelings justified. I'm scared to death that she'll take

off with my son and disappear but on the other hand, feel maybe I'm

being paranoid and should try to be understanding of her mental

illness....

>

> I need some input, quickly.

>

> I know that I need to focus on getting myself healthy. My nerves are

shot and I just keep gaining weight but I don't know what to do about my

mom.

Solid, concrete advice:

1. Read Stop Walking on Eggshells.

2. Find yourself a good counselor

3. Read Boundaries.

4. Set boundaries with your mom. Establish the consequences of her

violating them. ( rage at me, I won t talk to you for a week. Talk

about sex with TMI, I ll hang up the phone. ect. )

5. Decide, you DO have the right to have a life. You do not owe her

your life, your family, or your happiness. You simply don t.

Good luck

Doug

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