Re: Do you ever think you hate her?

[Guest guest]

Standing ovation! YOU GOT MAD!!!

Took me 1 1/2 years of weekly therapy to get mad. To BE angry! I was so sucked

clean of MY authentic emotions to what SHE does that I didn't know I had the

right to be angry at her lifelong violations!

THIS IS HUGE!!!!

First thing my therapist said to me after the BPD thing came out on week 3 was,

" What concerns me most is you have NO anger. You should be VERY angry... you

are ENTITLED to be ANGRY! We'll start there.... "

It took a long, long time to get there.

You're on your way!

Congrats!

Lynnette

>

> Sometimes I think of the things she has said and done to me--nada, that

is--and I just feel like saying. I hate her.

>

> When I planned to go visit her for Christmas, I asked her and planned it out

months ahead of time. But most importantly, I asked her if it was a good time

for her. She had been begging me to visit for years.

>

> Whenever she comes to visit my brother, SIL, and nephews, she doesn't bother

telling me until after she books her flight, then sends me her itinerary and

expects me to drop everything to spend time with her, and rent a car and drive

40 miles round trip to spend an hour with her when she decides it's not prime

grandson time.

>

> I confronted her about it the first time she did it and we had a huge fight.

Then she did again the next year, and her response to me was " Guess what,

? It's not all about you " ! Well, duh. If it was even a little about me you

would confer with me to ask me if it was a good time of year. So my response to

her was " I know it's not all about me. But if you are planning on visiting with

me, then you should be figuring out with me when is a good time to do that and

if I'm even able to at that time of year. " The time she had chosen was really

bad for me. I was working long hours at work and it was right before the opening

of our new galleries in a new building (huge gala and other events and press

conferences I had to be present for, etc.) and I had other things planned and

going on as well. I also responded, " have a nice trip. I probably won't be able

to see you since you didn't consult me at all about when you would be in town

and I have already a lot of things on my plate at that time. "

>

> After she completed making her plans and such she sends me an email saying, " I

hope that you'll be able to take time from your busy schedule to spend a day

with me, stepdad, and stepbro. "

>

> It doesn't have to be all about me, but if she expects to see me, then

shouldn't it be a little about me?

>

> I don't know. Lately I have felt like I should allow myself to feel the anger

that I feel. And frankly I'm feeling like I hate her for screwing with my mind,

my emotions, and my mental health. I hate her for turning my Christmas into a

nightmare and for all the nightmares I have every night. I don't care if she has

a disorder. She won't seek help, so I can't have that much compassion for her.

And frankly, I feel like I should call CPS on her and my stepfather because I am

so worried for the mental health of my stepbrother. But that would certainly get

me cast out from all of my family. And nada would never forgive me. But do I

care?

>

[Guest guest]

I agree! It is a big step to be able to consciously feel anger that has been

repressed as " bad " for a lifetime.

Its probably anger and hurt feelings. It *does* hurt to not be treated as an

equal in one's family, as though your time and your job are not important at

all. It hurts to never be consulted ahead of time whether or not any particular

dates are good for you, and merely told when to appear.

It *isn't* fair. And it hurts even more when you've asked politely to be

included in the planning and are ignored repeatedly. That would hurt anyone's

feelings, and make anyone angry.

I'll add my congrats for accessing your authentic anger as well.

(If you want to visit your brother and his family, maybe you could do that on

your own without nada? Is that a possibility?)

-Annie

>

> Standing ovation! YOU GOT MAD!!!

>

> Took me 1 1/2 years of weekly therapy to get mad. To BE angry! I was so

sucked clean of MY authentic emotions to what SHE does that I didn't know I had

the right to be angry at her lifelong violations!

>

> THIS IS HUGE!!!!

>

> First thing my therapist said to me after the BPD thing came out on week 3

was, " What concerns me most is you have NO anger. You should be VERY angry...

you are ENTITLED to be ANGRY! We'll start there.... "

>

> It took a long, long time to get there.

>

> You're on your way!

>

> Congrats!

>

> Lynnette

[Guest guest]

I hated nada my entire life. Every decision I ever made was to ensure I would

not become anything like her and ran to counseling the first time I heard her

words coming out of my mouth towards my own child.

I argued with her daily when I lived at home, trying to get her to admit she was

wrong. Never happened. At 27 I got into Alanon and learned to " accept the

things I cannot change " and stopped arguing with her, but I ended up being a

doormat for the next 20 years, for I neglected the part of the Serenity Prayer

that says " Courage to change the things I can " . In the last three years I've

set boundaries and its paying off. I even blew up at Nada last fall and said

some long-withheld things and it seemed to put her in her place. She's been

walking on eggshells around me and it feels good that the tables have turned.

Enough is enough!

>

> Sometimes I think of the things she has said and done to me--nada, that

is--and I just feel like saying. I hate her.

>

> When I planned to go visit her for Christmas, I asked her and planned it out

months ahead of time. But most importantly, I asked her if it was a good time

for her. She had been begging me to visit for years.

>

> Whenever she comes to visit my brother, SIL, and nephews, she doesn't bother

telling me until after she books her flight, then sends me her itinerary and

expects me to drop everything to spend time with her, and rent a car and drive

40 miles round trip to spend an hour with her when she decides it's not prime

grandson time.

>

> I confronted her about it the first time she did it and we had a huge fight.

Then she did again the next year, and her response to me was " Guess what,

? It's not all about you " ! Well, duh. If it was even a little about me you

would confer with me to ask me if it was a good time of year. So my response to

her was " I know it's not all about me. But if you are planning on visiting with

me, then you should be figuring out with me when is a good time to do that and

if I'm even able to at that time of year. " The time she had chosen was really

bad for me. I was working long hours at work and it was right before the opening

of our new galleries in a new building (huge gala and other events and press

conferences I had to be present for, etc.) and I had other things planned and

going on as well. I also responded, " have a nice trip. I probably won't be able

to see you since you didn't consult me at all about when you would be in town

and I have already a lot of things on my plate at that time. "

>

> After she completed making her plans and such she sends me an email saying, " I

hope that you'll be able to take time from your busy schedule to spend a day

with me, stepdad, and stepbro. "

>

> It doesn't have to be all about me, but if she expects to see me, then

shouldn't it be a little about me?

>

> I don't know. Lately I have felt like I should allow myself to feel the anger

that I feel. And frankly I'm feeling like I hate her for screwing with my mind,

my emotions, and my mental health. I hate her for turning my Christmas into a

nightmare and for all the nightmares I have every night. I don't care if she has

a disorder. She won't seek help, so I can't have that much compassion for her.

And frankly, I feel like I should call CPS on her and my stepfather because I am

so worried for the mental health of my stepbrother. But that would certainly get

me cast out from all of my family. And nada would never forgive me. But do I

care?

>

[Guest guest]

I hated nada my entire life. Every decision I ever made was to ensure I would

not become anything like her and ran to counseling the first time I heard her

words coming out of my mouth towards my own child.

I argued with her daily when I lived at home, trying to get her to admit she was

wrong. Never happened. At 27 I got into Alanon and learned to " accept the

things I cannot change " and stopped arguing with her, but I ended up being a

doormat for the next 20 years, for I neglected the part of the Serenity Prayer

that says " Courage to change the things I can " . In the last three years I've

set boundaries and its paying off. I even blew up at Nada last fall and said

some long-withheld things and it seemed to put her in her place. She's been

walking on eggshells around me and it feels good that the tables have turned.

Enough is enough!

>

> Sometimes I think of the things she has said and done to me--nada, that

is--and I just feel like saying. I hate her.

>

> When I planned to go visit her for Christmas, I asked her and planned it out

months ahead of time. But most importantly, I asked her if it was a good time

for her. She had been begging me to visit for years.

>

> Whenever she comes to visit my brother, SIL, and nephews, she doesn't bother

telling me until after she books her flight, then sends me her itinerary and

expects me to drop everything to spend time with her, and rent a car and drive

40 miles round trip to spend an hour with her when she decides it's not prime

grandson time.

>

> I confronted her about it the first time she did it and we had a huge fight.

Then she did again the next year, and her response to me was " Guess what,

? It's not all about you " ! Well, duh. If it was even a little about me you

would confer with me to ask me if it was a good time of year. So my response to

her was " I know it's not all about me. But if you are planning on visiting with

me, then you should be figuring out with me when is a good time to do that and

if I'm even able to at that time of year. " The time she had chosen was really

bad for me. I was working long hours at work and it was right before the opening

of our new galleries in a new building (huge gala and other events and press

conferences I had to be present for, etc.) and I had other things planned and

going on as well. I also responded, " have a nice trip. I probably won't be able

to see you since you didn't consult me at all about when you would be in town

and I have already a lot of things on my plate at that time. "

>

> After she completed making her plans and such she sends me an email saying, " I

hope that you'll be able to take time from your busy schedule to spend a day

with me, stepdad, and stepbro. "

>

> It doesn't have to be all about me, but if she expects to see me, then

shouldn't it be a little about me?

>

> I don't know. Lately I have felt like I should allow myself to feel the anger

that I feel. And frankly I'm feeling like I hate her for screwing with my mind,

my emotions, and my mental health. I hate her for turning my Christmas into a

nightmare and for all the nightmares I have every night. I don't care if she has

a disorder. She won't seek help, so I can't have that much compassion for her.

And frankly, I feel like I should call CPS on her and my stepfather because I am

so worried for the mental health of my stepbrother. But that would certainly get

me cast out from all of my family. And nada would never forgive me. But do I

care?

>

[Guest guest]

I hated nada my entire life. Every decision I ever made was to ensure I would

not become anything like her and ran to counseling the first time I heard her

words coming out of my mouth towards my own child.

I argued with her daily when I lived at home, trying to get her to admit she was

wrong. Never happened. At 27 I got into Alanon and learned to " accept the

things I cannot change " and stopped arguing with her, but I ended up being a

doormat for the next 20 years, for I neglected the part of the Serenity Prayer

that says " Courage to change the things I can " . In the last three years I've

set boundaries and its paying off. I even blew up at Nada last fall and said

some long-withheld things and it seemed to put her in her place. She's been

walking on eggshells around me and it feels good that the tables have turned.

Enough is enough!

>

> Sometimes I think of the things she has said and done to me--nada, that

is--and I just feel like saying. I hate her.

>

> When I planned to go visit her for Christmas, I asked her and planned it out

months ahead of time. But most importantly, I asked her if it was a good time

for her. She had been begging me to visit for years.

>

> Whenever she comes to visit my brother, SIL, and nephews, she doesn't bother

telling me until after she books her flight, then sends me her itinerary and

expects me to drop everything to spend time with her, and rent a car and drive

40 miles round trip to spend an hour with her when she decides it's not prime

grandson time.

>

> I confronted her about it the first time she did it and we had a huge fight.

Then she did again the next year, and her response to me was " Guess what,

? It's not all about you " ! Well, duh. If it was even a little about me you

would confer with me to ask me if it was a good time of year. So my response to

her was " I know it's not all about me. But if you are planning on visiting with

me, then you should be figuring out with me when is a good time to do that and

if I'm even able to at that time of year. " The time she had chosen was really

bad for me. I was working long hours at work and it was right before the opening

of our new galleries in a new building (huge gala and other events and press

conferences I had to be present for, etc.) and I had other things planned and

going on as well. I also responded, " have a nice trip. I probably won't be able

to see you since you didn't consult me at all about when you would be in town

and I have already a lot of things on my plate at that time. "

>

> After she completed making her plans and such she sends me an email saying, " I

hope that you'll be able to take time from your busy schedule to spend a day

with me, stepdad, and stepbro. "

>

> It doesn't have to be all about me, but if she expects to see me, then

shouldn't it be a little about me?

>

> I don't know. Lately I have felt like I should allow myself to feel the anger

that I feel. And frankly I'm feeling like I hate her for screwing with my mind,

my emotions, and my mental health. I hate her for turning my Christmas into a

nightmare and for all the nightmares I have every night. I don't care if she has

a disorder. She won't seek help, so I can't have that much compassion for her.

And frankly, I feel like I should call CPS on her and my stepfather because I am

so worried for the mental health of my stepbrother. But that would certainly get

me cast out from all of my family. And nada would never forgive me. But do I

care?

>

[Guest guest]

Annie,

Just to clarify, nada lives out of state. Brother lives one city away from me.

Yes, I used to visit him on my own a lot until he turned into a flying monkey.

Now I don't visit him. The problem was nada making plans to come visit " us " (he

and I both) when she was really just making plans to visit him, and I'm supposed

to just appear at some odd hour when her grandkids are asleep and she has

nothing better to do.This wasn't about including me in going to visit, it was

about her talking to me before she books travel, etc., and comes to town

expecting me to be able to drop everything and wait on her.

> >

> > Standing ovation! YOU GOT MAD!!!

> >

> > Took me 1 1/2 years of weekly therapy to get mad. To BE angry! I was so

sucked clean of MY authentic emotions to what SHE does that I didn't know I had

the right to be angry at her lifelong violations!

> >

> > THIS IS HUGE!!!!

> >

> > First thing my therapist said to me after the BPD thing came out on week 3

was, " What concerns me most is you have NO anger. You should be VERY angry...

you are ENTITLED to be ANGRY! We'll start there.... "

> >

> > It took a long, long time to get there.

> >

> > You're on your way!

> >

> > Congrats!

> >

> > Lynnette

>

[Guest guest]

Yes I hate my nada. And no I don't blame you.

I don't know if hate is totally right - I've given up on mine. I'm somewhat

indifferent to her now. So I guess for present and future stuff I'm

indifferent but for past stuff I hate her. Does that make any sense?

>

>

> Annie,

>

> Just to clarify, nada lives out of state. Brother lives one city away from

> me. Yes, I used to visit him on my own a lot until he turned into a flying

> monkey. Now I don't visit him. The problem was nada making plans to come

> visit " us " (he and I both) when she was really just making plans to visit

> him, and I'm supposed to just appear at some odd hour when her grandkids are

> asleep and she has nothing better to do.This wasn't about including me in

> going to visit, it was about her talking to me before she books travel,

> etc., and comes to town expecting me to be able to drop everything and wait

> on her.

>

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Standing ovation! YOU GOT MAD!!!

> > >

> > > Took me 1 1/2 years of weekly therapy to get mad. To BE angry! I was so

> sucked clean of MY authentic emotions to what SHE does that I didn't know I

> had the right to be angry at her lifelong violations!

> > >

> > > THIS IS HUGE!!!!

> > >

> > > First thing my therapist said to me after the BPD thing came out on

> week 3 was, " What concerns me most is you have NO anger. You should be VERY

> angry... you are ENTITLED to be ANGRY! We'll start there.... "

> > >

> > > It took a long, long time to get there.

> > >

> > > You're on your way!

> > >

> > > Congrats!

> > >

> > > Lynnette

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes I hate my nada. And no I don't blame you.

I don't know if hate is totally right - I've given up on mine. I'm somewhat

indifferent to her now. So I guess for present and future stuff I'm

indifferent but for past stuff I hate her. Does that make any sense?

>

>

> Annie,

>

> Just to clarify, nada lives out of state. Brother lives one city away from

> me. Yes, I used to visit him on my own a lot until he turned into a flying

> monkey. Now I don't visit him. The problem was nada making plans to come

> visit " us " (he and I both) when she was really just making plans to visit

> him, and I'm supposed to just appear at some odd hour when her grandkids are

> asleep and she has nothing better to do.This wasn't about including me in

> going to visit, it was about her talking to me before she books travel,

> etc., and comes to town expecting me to be able to drop everything and wait

> on her.

>

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Standing ovation! YOU GOT MAD!!!

> > >

> > > Took me 1 1/2 years of weekly therapy to get mad. To BE angry! I was so

> sucked clean of MY authentic emotions to what SHE does that I didn't know I

> had the right to be angry at her lifelong violations!

> > >

> > > THIS IS HUGE!!!!

> > >

> > > First thing my therapist said to me after the BPD thing came out on

> week 3 was, " What concerns me most is you have NO anger. You should be VERY

> angry... you are ENTITLED to be ANGRY! We'll start there.... "

> > >

> > > It took a long, long time to get there.

> > >

> > > You're on your way!

> > >

> > > Congrats!

> > >

> > > Lynnette

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Do I " think " I hate her?

I'd like to think I don't hate her, I only hate the disease.

But that's crap. Yes, of course I hate her sometimes.

Being humiliated and abused since birth finally (with work and therapy) becomes

justifiable rage. And . . . impotent-yet-justifiable-rage feels as close to

hate as I ever want to get.

Anger is good. Anger takes courage. Serious anger means you are doing great!!

Good work!

Blessings,

Karla

>

> Sometimes I think of the things she has said and done to me--nada, that

is--and I just feel like saying. I hate her.

>

> When I planned to go visit her for Christmas, I asked her and planned it out

months ahead of time. But most importantly, I asked her if it was a good time

for her. She had been begging me to visit for years.

>

> Whenever she comes to visit my brother, SIL, and nephews, she doesn't bother

telling me until after she books her flight, then sends me her itinerary and

expects me to drop everything to spend time with her, and rent a car and drive

40 miles round trip to spend an hour with her when she decides it's not prime

grandson time.

>

> I confronted her about it the first time she did it and we had a huge fight.

Then she did again the next year, and her response to me was " Guess what,

? It's not all about you " ! Well, duh. If it was even a little about me you

would confer with me to ask me if it was a good time of year. So my response to

her was " I know it's not all about me. But if you are planning on visiting with

me, then you should be figuring out with me when is a good time to do that and

if I'm even able to at that time of year. " The time she had chosen was really

bad for me. I was working long hours at work and it was right before the opening

of our new galleries in a new building (huge gala and other events and press

conferences I had to be present for, etc.) and I had other things planned and

going on as well. I also responded, " have a nice trip. I probably won't be able

to see you since you didn't consult me at all about when you would be in town

and I have already a lot of things on my plate at that time. "

>

> After she completed making her plans and such she sends me an email saying, " I

hope that you'll be able to take time from your busy schedule to spend a day

with me, stepdad, and stepbro. "

>

> It doesn't have to be all about me, but if she expects to see me, then

shouldn't it be a little about me?

>

> I don't know. Lately I have felt like I should allow myself to feel the anger

that I feel. And frankly I'm feeling like I hate her for screwing with my mind,

my emotions, and my mental health. I hate her for turning my Christmas into a

nightmare and for all the nightmares I have every night. I don't care if she has

a disorder. She won't seek help, so I can't have that much compassion for her.

And frankly, I feel like I should call CPS on her and my stepfather because I am

so worried for the mental health of my stepbrother. But that would certainly get

me cast out from all of my family. And nada would never forgive me. But do I

care?

>

[Guest guest]

I think you're right: both love and hate keep us connected to a person; both are

a form of attachment. I'm trying to get to a place where I feel neither of them

for my nada. I want to achieve neutrality, or detachment. I haven't been

making much progress toward neutrality for about a year now, though.

Just when I'm starting to feel detached, my Sister will inform me of some new

development. " Nada is acting more normal these days, " or " Nada made another

ugly false accusation against me and then later claimed that she never said any

such thing even though I asked her twice if that's what she really meant, " or

" Nada is starting to hallucinate now. " It just never stops. I guess it will,

eventually, though.

And yes, that is one of the most cruel, damaging, crazy-making things about

borderline pd (and perhaps the other Cluster B pds too) is how a parent with bpd

will single out one child (or more) for covert abuse (all-bad/scapegoat) and

will praise the other child (the golden child, or children) *as though that is

OK and normal.* Its just unconscionable to do that to your own children. Plus

it drives the siblings away from each other; it can permanently corrupt the

sibs' ability to bond with each other.

That particular behavior: " arbitrary role assignments: you're all-good, and

you're all-bad " ... that *alone* should disqualify someone from being trusted

with child-rearing responsibilities.

Gah!!!

-Annie

>

> Do I hate her? Hell yes. I don't like using such a strong word, but in this

case for the years of emotional abuse and manipulation - yes I hate her.

>

> Like has previously been mentioned, I have done my best to try to live my life

in a way that I never become her, I never behave like her.

>

> I think love and hate are so close and so far that we can feel both for a

person and it can feel right and wrong all at the same time (sorry this probably

doesn't make much sense).

>

> What I hate the most, is also that she can behave fine with everyone else, I

have 4 sisters and she treats them all fine. It is just me that gets to see the

witch at her worst.

>

> Society would try and tell us it is wrong to hate our Mother, but isn't it

also wrong for her to treat you the way she does? I agree, hating her for what

she has done is only a natural response. Just don't let it consume your life.

>