Re: What about confronting my abusers?

[Guest guest]

That's funny, Annie, because you don't strike me as a hateful person. How

unfair! It sounds like bpdfamily is continuing abusive patterns, which is

not healthy...

Thanks for sharing the link--I will take a look at it when I get home. But I

have to say, I've been speaking out more and more. For one thing, I hope

that something of my speaking out against child abuse will trickle down to

my four littlest siblings who are still at home. I want so much for them to

have a better childhood than myself. I've been wanting that so much that

I've been having dreams on occasion that I was playing the game just so I

could have access to my siblings, in order for me to let them know that it's

not them, it's fada.

I think about them every single day.

Holly

On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 1:34 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

>

>

> " The Adult Survivors of Child Abuse " is an organization that offers both

> on-line and in-person support groups for those who were emotionally,

> physically or sexually abused, neglected, exploited, etc., by their parents

> or other family members as a child.

>

> Here's their link. They have a 21-step program " Survivor To Thriver " (with

> manual) for overcoming the damage done and getting on with one's life; there

> is a sort-of-interactive version of their program manual available online

> and they have an on-line support forum like this one in addition to

> in-person meet ups.

>

> www.ascasupport.org/

>

> I was skimming through their manual when I came across this section:

>

> " Chapter 1, Pg 13: What About Confronting My Abusers?

> This is a very difficult question, and one that only you can answer for

> yourself. Step 18 of ASCA reads: " I have resolved the abuse with my

> offenders to the extent that is acceptable to me. " For some survivors, this

> means an internal coming to terms with the abuse and the abuser(s) but does

> not involve direct confrontation. For others, it means direct confrontation,

> either face-to-face or by letter or phone. *For still others it may mean

> writing articles, stories, newspaper op-ed pieces or by speaking out in

> public gatherings. And for still others it may mean pursuing legal action to

> gain restitution for the abuse suffered.* Every survivor is different in

> his/her need to confront the abuser(s). Neither ASCA nor THE MORRIS CENTER

> has a policy or position on confrontation. Instead, we believe that each

> survivor must make this choice individually. We do, however,encourage

> survivors to think carefully about their options and the consequences of

> their choices. "

>

> I find it SO validating that choosing to speak out publicly against child

> abuse (including advocating that child abusers be held accountable for their

> actions, that pursuing legal action and recompense can work for some,

> pointing out that those who are unable to control their negative, damaging

> acting-out behaviors are too mentally ill to be raising children, etc.) is

> listed as a good way for the former victims of child abuse to gain healing

> and resolution... and I find it particularly validating because I was banned

> at bpdfamily.com for advocating that!

>

> AND I find it highly ironic that bpdfamily.com posts this same ASCA

> 21-step recovery program manual at their site!

>

> I was told that I was banned because I was too stuck in anger, that

> advocating confrontation of the abuser and pursuing legal action against the

> abuser (who happen to be parents who have bpd) was " unhealthy " for the

> children of bpd parents and " insensitive " to and " lacking in compassion " for

> those with bpd.

>

> So, I can only conclude that the owners and/or moderators at bpdfamily.commust

have a different agenda regarding tolerance, reconciliation and

> forgiveness RE the adult children of abusive bpd parents than they do for

> those in chosen relationships with a person with bpd (where the emphasis

> seems to be on self-preservation and detachment instead of reconciliation

> and forgiveness.)

>

> Why there is a different policy, I have no idea!

>

> But I have to admit that I feel angry about being banned because it feels

> unfair to me, and I guess I am sensitive about unfairness.

>

> But, I can share my thoughts freely here and I AM grateful for that.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

If a mentally ill person rapes you, do you not have the right to be angry and

want to seek retribution? Even if they are sorry they did it and/or couldn't

help it?

If a mentally ill person kills a college student, does the family not have the

right to grieve (and be angry) and seek retribution and confront their child's

killer?

I'm not saying we should not be compassionate to their plight, but since when is

BPD a get-out-of-jail-free pass for hurting people. Having a personality

disorder does NOT excuse you from being responsible for your own actions. And

claiming that those of us who have been hurt and abused, physically and

mentally, by someone who has BPD do not have the right to confront our abusers

or to be angry about it is offensive.

If BPD family does not want the people with BPD on their site to have to deal

with those who have been abused by BPDs, then they should have it be a people

with BPD only site. Period. It's one thing to moderate a discussion and try to

keep it civil while those with BPD and those without it freely discuss their

experience and their emotions about it, it's another to ban someone simply

because they believe they have the right to confront their abuser and be angry.

As long as you're not personally bashing someone on their forum, they should not

be banning you.

I've only been on BPD family once, and I didn't particularly like it. I prefer

to be in a BPD free zone so I know I can say things openly, even mean things,

and not be judged, because you all know what I am going through, and that the

only way to recover is to express even the meanest things I feel.

You know, the moderators there can't be in the dark on the fact that if you have

a site where BPDs and nonBPDs are co-mingling is going to have some strife and

disagreement. If they are, well then, I don't see how they are really helping

anyone.

>

> " The Adult Survivors of Child Abuse " is an organization that offers both

on-line and in-person support groups for those who were emotionally, physically

or sexually abused, neglected, exploited, etc., by their parents or other family

members as a child.

>

> Here's their link. They have a 21-step program " Survivor To Thriver " (with

manual) for overcoming the damage done and getting on with one's life; there is

a sort-of-interactive version of their program manual available online and they

have an on-line support forum like this one in addition to in-person meet ups.

>

> www.ascasupport.org/

>

> I was skimming through their manual when I came across this section:

>

> " Chapter 1, Pg 13: What About Confronting My Abusers?

> This is a very difficult question, and one that only you can answer for

yourself. Step 18 of ASCA reads: " I have resolved the abuse with my offenders to

the extent that is acceptable to me. " For some survivors, this means an internal

coming to terms with the abuse and the abuser(s) but does not involve direct

confrontation. For others, it means direct confrontation, either face-to-face or

by letter or phone. *For still others it may mean writing articles, stories,

newspaper op-ed pieces or by speaking out in public gatherings. And for still

others it may mean pursuing legal action to gain restitution for the abuse

suffered.* Every survivor is different in his/her need to confront the

abuser(s). Neither ASCA nor THE MORRIS CENTER has a policy or position on

confrontation. Instead, we believe that each survivor must make this choice

individually. We do, however,encourage survivors to think carefully about their

options and the consequences of their choices. "

>

> I find it SO validating that choosing to speak out publicly against child

abuse (including advocating that child abusers be held accountable for their

actions, that pursuing legal action and recompense can work for some, pointing

out that those who are unable to control their negative, damaging acting-out

behaviors are too mentally ill to be raising children, etc.) is listed as a good

way for the former victims of child abuse to gain healing and resolution... and

I find it particularly validating because I was banned at bpdfamily.com for

advocating that!

>

> AND I find it highly ironic that bpdfamily.com posts this same ASCA 21-step

recovery program manual at their site!

>

> I was told that I was banned because I was too stuck in anger, that advocating

confrontation of the abuser and pursuing legal action against the abuser (who

happen to be parents who have bpd) was " unhealthy " for the children of bpd

parents and " insensitive " to and " lacking in compassion " for those with bpd.

>

> So, I can only conclude that the owners and/or moderators at bpdfamily.com

must have a different agenda regarding tolerance, reconciliation and forgiveness

RE the adult children of abusive bpd parents than they do for those in chosen

relationships with a person with bpd (where the emphasis seems to be on

self-preservation and detachment instead of reconciliation and forgiveness.)

>

> Why there is a different policy, I have no idea!

>

> But I have to admit that I feel angry about being banned because it feels

unfair to me, and I guess I am sensitive about unfairness.

>

> But, I can share my thoughts freely here and I AM grateful for that.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

If a mentally ill person rapes you, do you not have the right to be angry and

want to seek retribution? Even if they are sorry they did it and/or couldn't

help it?

If a mentally ill person kills a college student, does the family not have the

right to grieve (and be angry) and seek retribution and confront their child's

killer?

I'm not saying we should not be compassionate to their plight, but since when is

BPD a get-out-of-jail-free pass for hurting people. Having a personality

disorder does NOT excuse you from being responsible for your own actions. And

claiming that those of us who have been hurt and abused, physically and

mentally, by someone who has BPD do not have the right to confront our abusers

or to be angry about it is offensive.

If BPD family does not want the people with BPD on their site to have to deal

with those who have been abused by BPDs, then they should have it be a people

with BPD only site. Period. It's one thing to moderate a discussion and try to

keep it civil while those with BPD and those without it freely discuss their

experience and their emotions about it, it's another to ban someone simply

because they believe they have the right to confront their abuser and be angry.

As long as you're not personally bashing someone on their forum, they should not

be banning you.

I've only been on BPD family once, and I didn't particularly like it. I prefer

to be in a BPD free zone so I know I can say things openly, even mean things,

and not be judged, because you all know what I am going through, and that the

only way to recover is to express even the meanest things I feel.

You know, the moderators there can't be in the dark on the fact that if you have

a site where BPDs and nonBPDs are co-mingling is going to have some strife and

disagreement. If they are, well then, I don't see how they are really helping

anyone.

>

> " The Adult Survivors of Child Abuse " is an organization that offers both

on-line and in-person support groups for those who were emotionally, physically

or sexually abused, neglected, exploited, etc., by their parents or other family

members as a child.

>

> Here's their link. They have a 21-step program " Survivor To Thriver " (with

manual) for overcoming the damage done and getting on with one's life; there is

a sort-of-interactive version of their program manual available online and they

have an on-line support forum like this one in addition to in-person meet ups.

>

> www.ascasupport.org/

>

> I was skimming through their manual when I came across this section:

>

> " Chapter 1, Pg 13: What About Confronting My Abusers?

> This is a very difficult question, and one that only you can answer for

yourself. Step 18 of ASCA reads: " I have resolved the abuse with my offenders to

the extent that is acceptable to me. " For some survivors, this means an internal

coming to terms with the abuse and the abuser(s) but does not involve direct

confrontation. For others, it means direct confrontation, either face-to-face or

by letter or phone. *For still others it may mean writing articles, stories,

newspaper op-ed pieces or by speaking out in public gatherings. And for still

others it may mean pursuing legal action to gain restitution for the abuse

suffered.* Every survivor is different in his/her need to confront the

abuser(s). Neither ASCA nor THE MORRIS CENTER has a policy or position on

confrontation. Instead, we believe that each survivor must make this choice

individually. We do, however,encourage survivors to think carefully about their

options and the consequences of their choices. "

>

> I find it SO validating that choosing to speak out publicly against child

abuse (including advocating that child abusers be held accountable for their

actions, that pursuing legal action and recompense can work for some, pointing

out that those who are unable to control their negative, damaging acting-out

behaviors are too mentally ill to be raising children, etc.) is listed as a good

way for the former victims of child abuse to gain healing and resolution... and

I find it particularly validating because I was banned at bpdfamily.com for

advocating that!

>

> AND I find it highly ironic that bpdfamily.com posts this same ASCA 21-step

recovery program manual at their site!

>

> I was told that I was banned because I was too stuck in anger, that advocating

confrontation of the abuser and pursuing legal action against the abuser (who

happen to be parents who have bpd) was " unhealthy " for the children of bpd

parents and " insensitive " to and " lacking in compassion " for those with bpd.

>

> So, I can only conclude that the owners and/or moderators at bpdfamily.com

must have a different agenda regarding tolerance, reconciliation and forgiveness

RE the adult children of abusive bpd parents than they do for those in chosen

relationships with a person with bpd (where the emphasis seems to be on

self-preservation and detachment instead of reconciliation and forgiveness.)

>

> Why there is a different policy, I have no idea!

>

> But I have to admit that I feel angry about being banned because it feels

unfair to me, and I guess I am sensitive about unfairness.

>

> But, I can share my thoughts freely here and I AM grateful for that.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

As I reply, I can also see Holly's reply, and I agree with her that you

don't strike me as hateful at all. I think it's also hypocritical of them

to offer information about this 21-step program, and then when you discuss

it on the list, you're banned? There's something very wrong with that

picture.

Like you, I am also sensitive to unfairness... maybe for us it's a KO thing,

we saw unfairness all the time growing up. I also don't blame you for being

angry about being banned. Anger is just another emotion, it's not good or

bad. It's what you do with it that makes it good or bad. I'm sure you know

that all ready, but I just want to let you know you're allowed to be angry

about it. I think I would be too. In fact, I think I am a little angry

about it because you are a constant source of support and knowledge here,

and I just can't believe they'd ban you.

Anyway, I will check out that link, thank you for posting it. Sounds like

an interesting program.

Mia

>

[Guest guest]

I have thought about this for some time. My father is dead so there is not a

possibility of discussing anything with him. He seemed to be an okay parent

until he drank. When I lived with him, I had good food to eat, nice clothes to

wear, toys, shoes and felt loved. He became verbally abusive when he drank -

mostly because I reminded him of nada (who he always loved and never really got

over). Sad.

Nada, gosh, I just don't see what the point would be. I once told her that her

neglect and verbal abuse screwed me over for life because even though I can see

the grass is green and the sky is blue I will always question that because she

always told me that what I saw was not real. She deflected and didn't respond.

As I grew in life, I came to understand that hurt people hurt people. Getting

even or calling them out doesn't change their wounds deep inside - it actually

just adds to their self-loathing and pain and to me just doesn't seem to be a

good use of my energy. I have had a very long time, though, to come to terms

with my anger and disappointment with my nada. My putting her in her place

would do nothing to aid her healing or mine. If the tables were turned, she'd

go for the jugular - heck, she goes for the jugular anyway. She's obviously so

twisted with pain inside that I just can't see adding to it. I consider her

much like a venomous snake. A rattle snake does not know that it is a rattle

snake. The rattle snake cannot comprehend no matter how many attempts i make to

befriend it that I love and deeply respect it. It will strike because that is

its nature. But, since it is a rattle snake and, therefore, deadly to me, I have

to keep my distance.

To me, its not a worthy battle to unleash on an obviously wounded person. That

does not in any way mean I do not hold nada accountable, I just focus on what I

can do for me and don't make any attempts to change her behavior. She is what

she is...just like a venomous rattle snake. For those that call me horrible and

judgmental for keeping out of striking range, I tell them, fine - you go pet the

snake and them come back and tell me why your dying how right you were to stand

with the deadly snake.

I've learned in life that the only power or control I have is over me, my

thoughts, my reactions and actions and my emotions. I do not have to be drawn

into battle because nada knows how to get my goat or push my buttons and does

things on purpose to get me to react. I see my reactions (getting drawn in) as

the same thing as handing an alcoholic a pint of Vodka. I won't do it. I won't

enable her addiction to pain and negative reactions to help create her own

self-fulfilling prophecy of (I am a loathesome individual, I am unworthy of

love, I am small, petty and vindictive - I'll prove it again and again by

attacking those I love and when they go away, I will be right even if alone).

I just can't do it. Despite the verbal abuse and neglect, she did bring me into

this world. She cannot comprehend love so no wonder she attacks me for not

loving her. She can't see the love that I do give her...and she must extract

vengeance for me making her feel so small...but she also cannot see that her

anger is really with her. She has to project it onto me in order to be okay.

There is a heart in there somewhere and it is breaking only due to her own

delusions and distortions. She can't help it without treatment and without

treatment I remain NC. I don't like venomous snakes. But I also don't need to

shout at the snake to tell it it's a snake that shouldn't hurt people that love

it and want to make friends. The concept would be totally lost.

In my long winded way, I'm saying I think it's pointless to confront.

Confrontation cannot undo the damage done and it will not do one thing to change

future behavior. In fact, it'll just fuel it further (I think - Huge assumption

but one made based on experience specific to nada).

Please understand that I also do not suggest that you swallow you anger and just

put up with abuse. I suggest finding a treatment program YOU control and work

with and help YOU resolve the anger so that YOU can come to forgiveness - not to

excuse nadas and fadas but so you can free yourself of the toxic venom.

I hate that we all have to be here but I love the fact that we have the support

that we do and that we can encourage eachother to reach beyond the blocks of

anger and pain and live normal and healthy lives despite the abuse we suffered.

Much love and many blessings to all of you.

[Guest guest]

I have thought about this for some time. My father is dead so there is not a

possibility of discussing anything with him. He seemed to be an okay parent

until he drank. When I lived with him, I had good food to eat, nice clothes to

wear, toys, shoes and felt loved. He became verbally abusive when he drank -

mostly because I reminded him of nada (who he always loved and never really got

over). Sad.

Nada, gosh, I just don't see what the point would be. I once told her that her

neglect and verbal abuse screwed me over for life because even though I can see

the grass is green and the sky is blue I will always question that because she

always told me that what I saw was not real. She deflected and didn't respond.

As I grew in life, I came to understand that hurt people hurt people. Getting

even or calling them out doesn't change their wounds deep inside - it actually

just adds to their self-loathing and pain and to me just doesn't seem to be a

good use of my energy. I have had a very long time, though, to come to terms

with my anger and disappointment with my nada. My putting her in her place

would do nothing to aid her healing or mine. If the tables were turned, she'd

go for the jugular - heck, she goes for the jugular anyway. She's obviously so

twisted with pain inside that I just can't see adding to it. I consider her

much like a venomous snake. A rattle snake does not know that it is a rattle

snake. The rattle snake cannot comprehend no matter how many attempts i make to

befriend it that I love and deeply respect it. It will strike because that is

its nature. But, since it is a rattle snake and, therefore, deadly to me, I have

to keep my distance.

To me, its not a worthy battle to unleash on an obviously wounded person. That

does not in any way mean I do not hold nada accountable, I just focus on what I

can do for me and don't make any attempts to change her behavior. She is what

she is...just like a venomous rattle snake. For those that call me horrible and

judgmental for keeping out of striking range, I tell them, fine - you go pet the

snake and them come back and tell me why your dying how right you were to stand

with the deadly snake.

I've learned in life that the only power or control I have is over me, my

thoughts, my reactions and actions and my emotions. I do not have to be drawn

into battle because nada knows how to get my goat or push my buttons and does

things on purpose to get me to react. I see my reactions (getting drawn in) as

the same thing as handing an alcoholic a pint of Vodka. I won't do it. I won't

enable her addiction to pain and negative reactions to help create her own

self-fulfilling prophecy of (I am a loathesome individual, I am unworthy of

love, I am small, petty and vindictive - I'll prove it again and again by

attacking those I love and when they go away, I will be right even if alone).

I just can't do it. Despite the verbal abuse and neglect, she did bring me into

this world. She cannot comprehend love so no wonder she attacks me for not

loving her. She can't see the love that I do give her...and she must extract

vengeance for me making her feel so small...but she also cannot see that her

anger is really with her. She has to project it onto me in order to be okay.

There is a heart in there somewhere and it is breaking only due to her own

delusions and distortions. She can't help it without treatment and without

treatment I remain NC. I don't like venomous snakes. But I also don't need to

shout at the snake to tell it it's a snake that shouldn't hurt people that love

it and want to make friends. The concept would be totally lost.

In my long winded way, I'm saying I think it's pointless to confront.

Confrontation cannot undo the damage done and it will not do one thing to change

future behavior. In fact, it'll just fuel it further (I think - Huge assumption

but one made based on experience specific to nada).

Please understand that I also do not suggest that you swallow you anger and just

put up with abuse. I suggest finding a treatment program YOU control and work

with and help YOU resolve the anger so that YOU can come to forgiveness - not to

excuse nadas and fadas but so you can free yourself of the toxic venom.

I hate that we all have to be here but I love the fact that we have the support

that we do and that we can encourage eachother to reach beyond the blocks of

anger and pain and live normal and healthy lives despite the abuse we suffered.

Much love and many blessings to all of you.

[Guest guest]

I have thought about this for some time. My father is dead so there is not a

possibility of discussing anything with him. He seemed to be an okay parent

until he drank. When I lived with him, I had good food to eat, nice clothes to

wear, toys, shoes and felt loved. He became verbally abusive when he drank -

mostly because I reminded him of nada (who he always loved and never really got

over). Sad.

Nada, gosh, I just don't see what the point would be. I once told her that her

neglect and verbal abuse screwed me over for life because even though I can see

the grass is green and the sky is blue I will always question that because she

always told me that what I saw was not real. She deflected and didn't respond.

As I grew in life, I came to understand that hurt people hurt people. Getting

even or calling them out doesn't change their wounds deep inside - it actually

just adds to their self-loathing and pain and to me just doesn't seem to be a

good use of my energy. I have had a very long time, though, to come to terms

with my anger and disappointment with my nada. My putting her in her place

would do nothing to aid her healing or mine. If the tables were turned, she'd

go for the jugular - heck, she goes for the jugular anyway. She's obviously so

twisted with pain inside that I just can't see adding to it. I consider her

much like a venomous snake. A rattle snake does not know that it is a rattle

snake. The rattle snake cannot comprehend no matter how many attempts i make to

befriend it that I love and deeply respect it. It will strike because that is

its nature. But, since it is a rattle snake and, therefore, deadly to me, I have

to keep my distance.

To me, its not a worthy battle to unleash on an obviously wounded person. That

does not in any way mean I do not hold nada accountable, I just focus on what I

can do for me and don't make any attempts to change her behavior. She is what

she is...just like a venomous rattle snake. For those that call me horrible and

judgmental for keeping out of striking range, I tell them, fine - you go pet the

snake and them come back and tell me why your dying how right you were to stand

with the deadly snake.

I've learned in life that the only power or control I have is over me, my

thoughts, my reactions and actions and my emotions. I do not have to be drawn

into battle because nada knows how to get my goat or push my buttons and does

things on purpose to get me to react. I see my reactions (getting drawn in) as

the same thing as handing an alcoholic a pint of Vodka. I won't do it. I won't

enable her addiction to pain and negative reactions to help create her own

self-fulfilling prophecy of (I am a loathesome individual, I am unworthy of

love, I am small, petty and vindictive - I'll prove it again and again by

attacking those I love and when they go away, I will be right even if alone).

I just can't do it. Despite the verbal abuse and neglect, she did bring me into

this world. She cannot comprehend love so no wonder she attacks me for not

loving her. She can't see the love that I do give her...and she must extract

vengeance for me making her feel so small...but she also cannot see that her

anger is really with her. She has to project it onto me in order to be okay.

There is a heart in there somewhere and it is breaking only due to her own

delusions and distortions. She can't help it without treatment and without

treatment I remain NC. I don't like venomous snakes. But I also don't need to

shout at the snake to tell it it's a snake that shouldn't hurt people that love

it and want to make friends. The concept would be totally lost.

In my long winded way, I'm saying I think it's pointless to confront.

Confrontation cannot undo the damage done and it will not do one thing to change

future behavior. In fact, it'll just fuel it further (I think - Huge assumption

but one made based on experience specific to nada).

Please understand that I also do not suggest that you swallow you anger and just

put up with abuse. I suggest finding a treatment program YOU control and work

with and help YOU resolve the anger so that YOU can come to forgiveness - not to

excuse nadas and fadas but so you can free yourself of the toxic venom.

I hate that we all have to be here but I love the fact that we have the support

that we do and that we can encourage eachother to reach beyond the blocks of

anger and pain and live normal and healthy lives despite the abuse we suffered.

Much love and many blessings to all of you.

[Guest guest]

Let me clarify:

I'm not suggesting that we all go confronting our nadas and fadas, because I

don't see the use in it either, since, at least my nada, will never see what

she's done. However, my point is mainly that we have the right to be angry and

want to confront--it's a justifiable response. It's not fair for someone to

invalidate our feelings of anger about what was done to us because the person

who did it has BPD. Yes, the diagnosis might mean we have to deal with the anger

in different ways, or confront it in different ways--like speaking out against

child abuse or lobbying for better mental health care, etc.--but my point was

just that banning someone from a board because they are angry at what has been

done to them is wrong and unfair. They should be angry, and they come to the

forum to learn how to deal with that anger (I mean at BPDfamily.org), not to be

told they just have to get over it.

>

> A huge part of me would love to confront my nada, but why bother? She

> wouldn't hear me, would have an excuse or wouldn't remember anyway.

>

> I might do something my T recommended. Simple stuff, really... write a

> letter to her but don't really send it. Just to get the emotion out. I'd

> be tempted to send it though... would have to mail it to a friend first to

> have her mail it from her house so nada wouldn't see the city postmark on

> the envelope. Stupid, huh?

>

> Mia

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Let me clarify:

I'm not suggesting that we all go confronting our nadas and fadas, because I

don't see the use in it either, since, at least my nada, will never see what

she's done. However, my point is mainly that we have the right to be angry and

want to confront--it's a justifiable response. It's not fair for someone to

invalidate our feelings of anger about what was done to us because the person

who did it has BPD. Yes, the diagnosis might mean we have to deal with the anger

in different ways, or confront it in different ways--like speaking out against

child abuse or lobbying for better mental health care, etc.--but my point was

just that banning someone from a board because they are angry at what has been

done to them is wrong and unfair. They should be angry, and they come to the

forum to learn how to deal with that anger (I mean at BPDfamily.org), not to be

told they just have to get over it.

>

> A huge part of me would love to confront my nada, but why bother? She

> wouldn't hear me, would have an excuse or wouldn't remember anyway.

>

> I might do something my T recommended. Simple stuff, really... write a

> letter to her but don't really send it. Just to get the emotion out. I'd

> be tempted to send it though... would have to mail it to a friend first to

> have her mail it from her house so nada wouldn't see the city postmark on

> the envelope. Stupid, huh?

>

> Mia

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Let me clarify:

I'm not suggesting that we all go confronting our nadas and fadas, because I

don't see the use in it either, since, at least my nada, will never see what

she's done. However, my point is mainly that we have the right to be angry and

want to confront--it's a justifiable response. It's not fair for someone to

invalidate our feelings of anger about what was done to us because the person

who did it has BPD. Yes, the diagnosis might mean we have to deal with the anger

in different ways, or confront it in different ways--like speaking out against

child abuse or lobbying for better mental health care, etc.--but my point was

just that banning someone from a board because they are angry at what has been

done to them is wrong and unfair. They should be angry, and they come to the

forum to learn how to deal with that anger (I mean at BPDfamily.org), not to be

told they just have to get over it.

>

> A huge part of me would love to confront my nada, but why bother? She

> wouldn't hear me, would have an excuse or wouldn't remember anyway.

>

> I might do something my T recommended. Simple stuff, really... write a

> letter to her but don't really send it. Just to get the emotion out. I'd

> be tempted to send it though... would have to mail it to a friend first to

> have her mail it from her house so nada wouldn't see the city postmark on

> the envelope. Stupid, huh?

>

> Mia

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Annie, they banned you from that forum??!!!*??% & & /// & &

You are such a nice and kind person with such a deep knowledge they must be

complete morons !!!

But when you touch some taboo or common myths this is very common reaction.

Kill the messenger to avoid hearing the truth. What you have said about that

topic are things they should at least consider and think about it. And if they

would not be so much in denial and afraid what it may come out if they open that

box probably they would. But it is easier for them just to ban you. They don't

know what they are missing!

If it helps - I was banned ( or I'm persona no grata) for the same reason (

telling the truth others don't want to hear) from so much groups I could make a

huge collection :-)

For example: Years ago I made a lot of articles about sexual abuse of the

children - I wanted to rise awareness that this happened more times like we

wanted to hear and mostly in domestic environment. I worked a lot with some

NGO group with their lady boss ( ex cop) . We made a lot of good things.

But....years later it was a huge expansion of false allegations in cases of

divorce ( it was really absurd numbers of that kind of cases) When I ( hardly)

convinced my boss that we had to do that , the same lady from NGO attacked me

very badly ( on forums, call my bosses and tell them bad things about me and I

suspect that she used her former co-workers (police) to secretly follow my

mails)

She was convinced that it is better that some Innocent man ( or woman) goes to

prison for molesting his or her child than to miss some real abusing and she was

convinced if we would talk about false allegations people would stop believing

when some real one will occur.

I was convinced that if one parent falsely accuse another parent that he or she

are sexual abusing their child ( for revenge or to cut other partner out of

children life) is total abuse of children and we have to protect them from that

too. And the only way to really stop that is to talk about that.

I was the biggest and the worst bitch in the entire universe ( not just in her

eyes) but after that other journalists had courage to write about that and

institutes confess that this is happening (even she has to admit that publicly)

and things changed. It still happens but not so absurdly a lot and the

institutes are more sensitive about that.

So Annie don't stop telling your truth. It is really important what you have to

tell and it makes so much difference for people who struggle with that issue (

including me) . I use your wisdom and your your words a lot when I'm trying to

explain things which are so hard to explain to others. And really really thank

you for your effort!!

Hug

Yenaine

>

> " The Adult Survivors of Child Abuse " is an organization that offers both

on-line and in-person support groups for those who were emotionally, physically

or sexually abused, neglected, exploited, etc., by their parents or other family

members as a child.

>

> Here's their link. They have a 21-step program " Survivor To Thriver " (with

manual) for overcoming the damage done and getting on with one's life; there is

a sort-of-interactive version of their program manual available online and they

have an on-line support forum like this one in addition to in-person meet ups.

>

> www.ascasupport.org/

>

> I was skimming through their manual when I came across this section:

>

> " Chapter 1, Pg 13: What About Confronting My Abusers?

> This is a very difficult question, and one that only you can answer for

yourself. Step 18 of ASCA reads: " I have resolved the abuse with my offenders to

the extent that is acceptable to me. " For some survivors, this means an internal

coming to terms with the abuse and the abuser(s) but does not involve direct

confrontation. For others, it means direct confrontation, either face-to-face or

by letter or phone. *For still others it may mean writing articles, stories,

newspaper op-ed pieces or by speaking out in public gatherings. And for still

others it may mean pursuing legal action to gain restitution for the abuse

suffered.* Every survivor is different in his/her need to confront the

abuser(s). Neither ASCA nor THE MORRIS CENTER has a policy or position on

confrontation. Instead, we believe that each survivor must make this choice

individually. We do, however,encourage survivors to think carefully about their

options and the consequences of their choices. "

>

> I find it SO validating that choosing to speak out publicly against child

abuse (including advocating that child abusers be held accountable for their

actions, that pursuing legal action and recompense can work for some, pointing

out that those who are unable to control their negative, damaging acting-out

behaviors are too mentally ill to be raising children, etc.) is listed as a good

way for the former victims of child abuse to gain healing and resolution... and

I find it particularly validating because I was banned at bpdfamily.com for

advocating that!

>

> AND I find it highly ironic that bpdfamily.com posts this same ASCA 21-step

recovery program manual at their site!

>

> I was told that I was banned because I was too stuck in anger, that advocating

confrontation of the abuser and pursuing legal action against the abuser (who

happen to be parents who have bpd) was " unhealthy " for the children of bpd

parents and " insensitive " to and " lacking in compassion " for those with bpd.

>

> So, I can only conclude that the owners and/or moderators at bpdfamily.com

must have a different agenda regarding tolerance, reconciliation and forgiveness

RE the adult children of abusive bpd parents than they do for those in chosen

relationships with a person with bpd (where the emphasis seems to be on

self-preservation and detachment instead of reconciliation and forgiveness.)

>

> Why there is a different policy, I have no idea!

>

> But I have to admit that I feel angry about being banned because it feels

unfair to me, and I guess I am sensitive about unfairness.

>

> But, I can share my thoughts freely here and I AM grateful for that.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

Annie, they banned you from that forum??!!!*??% & & /// & &

You are such a nice and kind person with such a deep knowledge they must be

complete morons !!!

But when you touch some taboo or common myths this is very common reaction.

Kill the messenger to avoid hearing the truth. What you have said about that

topic are things they should at least consider and think about it. And if they

would not be so much in denial and afraid what it may come out if they open that

box probably they would. But it is easier for them just to ban you. They don't

know what they are missing!

If it helps - I was banned ( or I'm persona no grata) for the same reason (

telling the truth others don't want to hear) from so much groups I could make a

huge collection :-)

For example: Years ago I made a lot of articles about sexual abuse of the

children - I wanted to rise awareness that this happened more times like we

wanted to hear and mostly in domestic environment. I worked a lot with some

NGO group with their lady boss ( ex cop) . We made a lot of good things.

But....years later it was a huge expansion of false allegations in cases of

divorce ( it was really absurd numbers of that kind of cases) When I ( hardly)

convinced my boss that we had to do that , the same lady from NGO attacked me

very badly ( on forums, call my bosses and tell them bad things about me and I

suspect that she used her former co-workers (police) to secretly follow my

mails)

She was convinced that it is better that some Innocent man ( or woman) goes to

prison for molesting his or her child than to miss some real abusing and she was

convinced if we would talk about false allegations people would stop believing

when some real one will occur.

I was convinced that if one parent falsely accuse another parent that he or she

are sexual abusing their child ( for revenge or to cut other partner out of

children life) is total abuse of children and we have to protect them from that

too. And the only way to really stop that is to talk about that.

I was the biggest and the worst bitch in the entire universe ( not just in her

eyes) but after that other journalists had courage to write about that and

institutes confess that this is happening (even she has to admit that publicly)

and things changed. It still happens but not so absurdly a lot and the

institutes are more sensitive about that.

So Annie don't stop telling your truth. It is really important what you have to

tell and it makes so much difference for people who struggle with that issue (

including me) . I use your wisdom and your your words a lot when I'm trying to

explain things which are so hard to explain to others. And really really thank

you for your effort!!

Hug

Yenaine

>

> " The Adult Survivors of Child Abuse " is an organization that offers both

on-line and in-person support groups for those who were emotionally, physically

or sexually abused, neglected, exploited, etc., by their parents or other family

members as a child.

>

> Here's their link. They have a 21-step program " Survivor To Thriver " (with

manual) for overcoming the damage done and getting on with one's life; there is

a sort-of-interactive version of their program manual available online and they

have an on-line support forum like this one in addition to in-person meet ups.

>

> www.ascasupport.org/

>

> I was skimming through their manual when I came across this section:

>

> " Chapter 1, Pg 13: What About Confronting My Abusers?

> This is a very difficult question, and one that only you can answer for

yourself. Step 18 of ASCA reads: " I have resolved the abuse with my offenders to

the extent that is acceptable to me. " For some survivors, this means an internal

coming to terms with the abuse and the abuser(s) but does not involve direct

confrontation. For others, it means direct confrontation, either face-to-face or

by letter or phone. *For still others it may mean writing articles, stories,

newspaper op-ed pieces or by speaking out in public gatherings. And for still

others it may mean pursuing legal action to gain restitution for the abuse

suffered.* Every survivor is different in his/her need to confront the

abuser(s). Neither ASCA nor THE MORRIS CENTER has a policy or position on

confrontation. Instead, we believe that each survivor must make this choice

individually. We do, however,encourage survivors to think carefully about their

options and the consequences of their choices. "

>

> I find it SO validating that choosing to speak out publicly against child

abuse (including advocating that child abusers be held accountable for their

actions, that pursuing legal action and recompense can work for some, pointing

out that those who are unable to control their negative, damaging acting-out

behaviors are too mentally ill to be raising children, etc.) is listed as a good

way for the former victims of child abuse to gain healing and resolution... and

I find it particularly validating because I was banned at bpdfamily.com for

advocating that!

>

> AND I find it highly ironic that bpdfamily.com posts this same ASCA 21-step

recovery program manual at their site!

>

> I was told that I was banned because I was too stuck in anger, that advocating

confrontation of the abuser and pursuing legal action against the abuser (who

happen to be parents who have bpd) was " unhealthy " for the children of bpd

parents and " insensitive " to and " lacking in compassion " for those with bpd.

>

> So, I can only conclude that the owners and/or moderators at bpdfamily.com

must have a different agenda regarding tolerance, reconciliation and forgiveness

RE the adult children of abusive bpd parents than they do for those in chosen

relationships with a person with bpd (where the emphasis seems to be on

self-preservation and detachment instead of reconciliation and forgiveness.)

>

> Why there is a different policy, I have no idea!

>

> But I have to admit that I feel angry about being banned because it feels

unfair to me, and I guess I am sensitive about unfairness.

>

> But, I can share my thoughts freely here and I AM grateful for that.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Yenaine and my fellow KOs here. I guess getting banned was at least

partially my fault for being very passionate in my comments; when other posters

would describe some particularly awful kind of abuse they'd endured and it

shocked me, I'd reply offering sympathy by calling it " sadistic " or

" reprehensible " , or I'd say that I thought that was criminal child abuse and

their parent should have been arrested.

I was reprimanded more than once for generalizing: for tarring everyone with bpd

with the same brush. So I owned that generalizing was inaccurate, insensitive

and counterproductive, so instead I started referring to specific behaviors or

sets of behaviors as abusive.

Then they told me that I was only to speak of my own nada's behaviors and not

comment on the behaviors of the bpd parents of other posters.

Then I was banned from specific sections of the Forum, then banned altogether.

But I think on reflection that the underlying issue is: at that particular Forum

both bpds and non-bpds are members (although that is not made very clear) and

the owners and mods must be envisioning their Forum as an avenue of

reconciliation and forgiveness between bpd parents and non-children, that being

the best course of action. And there I was advocating that detaching for

self-protection is *equally valid* if that's what works best for some KOs. And

advocating that there is *nothing wrong* with protecting yourself from further

abuse, and offering the concept that accessing repressed anger can even be

productive: it can energize and empower a KO to initiate self-protective actions

(such as setting boundaries or going No Contact.)

So... I was going counter to their agenda, it would seem. But instead of just

saying openly that: " This Forum is here to promote compassion, forgiveness and

reconciliation between non-bpd children and their bpd parents, " instead they

chose to attack my viewpoint (and me) as " unhealthy " and " insensitive " and then

ban me. Oh well. I'll get over it.

They have the right to promote their own agenda at their own Forum, I just

objected to being called " unhealthy " and silenced because I happen to have a

different viewpoint. And if their agenda had been clearly stated, like a

" mission statement " or something, I might have chosen not to join in the first

place.

So anyway... yes, it sounds like you went through something very similar.

Kudos/applause to you for trying to increase public awareness of incest, even

though there are false accusations made in contentious divorce cases, incest

still goes on and kids still need to be rescued from it.

I think that the answer is to educate the children themselves about what incest

is and that (a) its not OK for relatives to have sex with each other, whether

its parent/child or sibling/sibling sex, and ( its OK for children to tell

some other adult like a teacher or a police officer about it so it can stop.

(Then, the reality is that once a child informs on his or her parents for

committing criminal acts such as incest, the family unit is effectively

shattered beyond repair. So there is yet another issue that must be dealt with.

It just never ends.)

Well, we'll survive. We are definitely survivors.

-Annie

>

> Annie, they banned you from that forum??!!!*??% & & /// & &

>

> You are such a nice and kind person with such a deep knowledge they must be

complete morons !!!

>

> But when you touch some taboo or common myths this is very common reaction.

Kill the messenger to avoid hearing the truth. What you have said about that

topic are things they should at least consider and think about it. And if they

would not be so much in denial and afraid what it may come out if they open that

box probably they would. But it is easier for them just to ban you. They don't

know what they are missing!

>

> If it helps - I was banned ( or I'm persona no grata) for the same reason (

telling the truth others don't want to hear) from so much groups I could make a

huge collection :-)

>

> For example: Years ago I made a lot of articles about sexual abuse of the

children - I wanted to rise awareness that this happened more times like we

wanted to hear and mostly in domestic environment. I worked a lot with some

NGO group with their lady boss ( ex cop) . We made a lot of good things.

>

> But....years later it was a huge expansion of false allegations in cases of

divorce ( it was really absurd numbers of that kind of cases) When I ( hardly)

convinced my boss that we had to do that , the same lady from NGO attacked me

very badly ( on forums, call my bosses and tell them bad things about me and I

suspect that she used her former co-workers (police) to secretly follow my

mails)

>

> She was convinced that it is better that some Innocent man ( or woman) goes to

prison for molesting his or her child than to miss some real abusing and she was

convinced if we would talk about false allegations people would stop believing

when some real one will occur.

>

> I was convinced that if one parent falsely accuse another parent that he or

she are sexual abusing their child ( for revenge or to cut other partner out

of children life) is total abuse of children and we have to protect them from

that too. And the only way to really stop that is to talk about that.

>

> I was the biggest and the worst bitch in the entire universe ( not just in her

eyes) but after that other journalists had courage to write about that and

institutes confess that this is happening (even she has to admit that publicly)

and things changed. It still happens but not so absurdly a lot and the

institutes are more sensitive about that.

>

> So Annie don't stop telling your truth. It is really important what you have

to tell and it makes so much difference for people who struggle with that issue

( including me) . I use your wisdom and your your words a lot when I'm trying to

explain things which are so hard to explain to others. And really really thank

you for your effort!!

> Hug

> Yenaine

[Guest guest]

Thanks Yenaine and my fellow KOs here. I guess getting banned was at least

partially my fault for being very passionate in my comments; when other posters

would describe some particularly awful kind of abuse they'd endured and it

shocked me, I'd reply offering sympathy by calling it " sadistic " or

" reprehensible " , or I'd say that I thought that was criminal child abuse and

their parent should have been arrested.

I was reprimanded more than once for generalizing: for tarring everyone with bpd

with the same brush. So I owned that generalizing was inaccurate, insensitive

and counterproductive, so instead I started referring to specific behaviors or

sets of behaviors as abusive.

Then they told me that I was only to speak of my own nada's behaviors and not

comment on the behaviors of the bpd parents of other posters.

Then I was banned from specific sections of the Forum, then banned altogether.

But I think on reflection that the underlying issue is: at that particular Forum

both bpds and non-bpds are members (although that is not made very clear) and

the owners and mods must be envisioning their Forum as an avenue of

reconciliation and forgiveness between bpd parents and non-children, that being

the best course of action. And there I was advocating that detaching for

self-protection is *equally valid* if that's what works best for some KOs. And

advocating that there is *nothing wrong* with protecting yourself from further

abuse, and offering the concept that accessing repressed anger can even be

productive: it can energize and empower a KO to initiate self-protective actions

(such as setting boundaries or going No Contact.)

So... I was going counter to their agenda, it would seem. But instead of just

saying openly that: " This Forum is here to promote compassion, forgiveness and

reconciliation between non-bpd children and their bpd parents, " instead they

chose to attack my viewpoint (and me) as " unhealthy " and " insensitive " and then

ban me. Oh well. I'll get over it.

They have the right to promote their own agenda at their own Forum, I just

objected to being called " unhealthy " and silenced because I happen to have a

different viewpoint. And if their agenda had been clearly stated, like a

" mission statement " or something, I might have chosen not to join in the first

place.

So anyway... yes, it sounds like you went through something very similar.

Kudos/applause to you for trying to increase public awareness of incest, even

though there are false accusations made in contentious divorce cases, incest

still goes on and kids still need to be rescued from it.

I think that the answer is to educate the children themselves about what incest

is and that (a) its not OK for relatives to have sex with each other, whether

its parent/child or sibling/sibling sex, and ( its OK for children to tell

some other adult like a teacher or a police officer about it so it can stop.

(Then, the reality is that once a child informs on his or her parents for

committing criminal acts such as incest, the family unit is effectively

shattered beyond repair. So there is yet another issue that must be dealt with.

It just never ends.)

Well, we'll survive. We are definitely survivors.

-Annie

>

> Annie, they banned you from that forum??!!!*??% & & /// & &

>

> You are such a nice and kind person with such a deep knowledge they must be

complete morons !!!

>

> But when you touch some taboo or common myths this is very common reaction.

Kill the messenger to avoid hearing the truth. What you have said about that

topic are things they should at least consider and think about it. And if they

would not be so much in denial and afraid what it may come out if they open that

box probably they would. But it is easier for them just to ban you. They don't

know what they are missing!

>

> If it helps - I was banned ( or I'm persona no grata) for the same reason (

telling the truth others don't want to hear) from so much groups I could make a

huge collection :-)

>

> For example: Years ago I made a lot of articles about sexual abuse of the

children - I wanted to rise awareness that this happened more times like we

wanted to hear and mostly in domestic environment. I worked a lot with some

NGO group with their lady boss ( ex cop) . We made a lot of good things.

>

> But....years later it was a huge expansion of false allegations in cases of

divorce ( it was really absurd numbers of that kind of cases) When I ( hardly)

convinced my boss that we had to do that , the same lady from NGO attacked me

very badly ( on forums, call my bosses and tell them bad things about me and I

suspect that she used her former co-workers (police) to secretly follow my

mails)

>

> She was convinced that it is better that some Innocent man ( or woman) goes to

prison for molesting his or her child than to miss some real abusing and she was

convinced if we would talk about false allegations people would stop believing

when some real one will occur.

>

> I was convinced that if one parent falsely accuse another parent that he or

she are sexual abusing their child ( for revenge or to cut other partner out

of children life) is total abuse of children and we have to protect them from

that too. And the only way to really stop that is to talk about that.

>

> I was the biggest and the worst bitch in the entire universe ( not just in her

eyes) but after that other journalists had courage to write about that and

institutes confess that this is happening (even she has to admit that publicly)

and things changed. It still happens but not so absurdly a lot and the

institutes are more sensitive about that.

>

> So Annie don't stop telling your truth. It is really important what you have

to tell and it makes so much difference for people who struggle with that issue

( including me) . I use your wisdom and your your words a lot when I'm trying to

explain things which are so hard to explain to others. And really really thank

you for your effort!!

> Hug

> Yenaine

[Guest guest]

Thanks Yenaine and my fellow KOs here. I guess getting banned was at least

partially my fault for being very passionate in my comments; when other posters

would describe some particularly awful kind of abuse they'd endured and it

shocked me, I'd reply offering sympathy by calling it " sadistic " or

" reprehensible " , or I'd say that I thought that was criminal child abuse and

their parent should have been arrested.

I was reprimanded more than once for generalizing: for tarring everyone with bpd

with the same brush. So I owned that generalizing was inaccurate, insensitive

and counterproductive, so instead I started referring to specific behaviors or

sets of behaviors as abusive.

Then they told me that I was only to speak of my own nada's behaviors and not

comment on the behaviors of the bpd parents of other posters.

Then I was banned from specific sections of the Forum, then banned altogether.

But I think on reflection that the underlying issue is: at that particular Forum

both bpds and non-bpds are members (although that is not made very clear) and

the owners and mods must be envisioning their Forum as an avenue of

reconciliation and forgiveness between bpd parents and non-children, that being

the best course of action. And there I was advocating that detaching for

self-protection is *equally valid* if that's what works best for some KOs. And

advocating that there is *nothing wrong* with protecting yourself from further

abuse, and offering the concept that accessing repressed anger can even be

productive: it can energize and empower a KO to initiate self-protective actions

(such as setting boundaries or going No Contact.)

So... I was going counter to their agenda, it would seem. But instead of just

saying openly that: " This Forum is here to promote compassion, forgiveness and

reconciliation between non-bpd children and their bpd parents, " instead they

chose to attack my viewpoint (and me) as " unhealthy " and " insensitive " and then

ban me. Oh well. I'll get over it.

They have the right to promote their own agenda at their own Forum, I just

objected to being called " unhealthy " and silenced because I happen to have a

different viewpoint. And if their agenda had been clearly stated, like a

" mission statement " or something, I might have chosen not to join in the first

place.

So anyway... yes, it sounds like you went through something very similar.

Kudos/applause to you for trying to increase public awareness of incest, even

though there are false accusations made in contentious divorce cases, incest

still goes on and kids still need to be rescued from it.

I think that the answer is to educate the children themselves about what incest

is and that (a) its not OK for relatives to have sex with each other, whether

its parent/child or sibling/sibling sex, and ( its OK for children to tell

some other adult like a teacher or a police officer about it so it can stop.

(Then, the reality is that once a child informs on his or her parents for

committing criminal acts such as incest, the family unit is effectively

shattered beyond repair. So there is yet another issue that must be dealt with.

It just never ends.)

Well, we'll survive. We are definitely survivors.

-Annie

>

> Annie, they banned you from that forum??!!!*??% & & /// & &

>

> You are such a nice and kind person with such a deep knowledge they must be

complete morons !!!

>

> But when you touch some taboo or common myths this is very common reaction.

Kill the messenger to avoid hearing the truth. What you have said about that

topic are things they should at least consider and think about it. And if they

would not be so much in denial and afraid what it may come out if they open that

box probably they would. But it is easier for them just to ban you. They don't

know what they are missing!

>

> If it helps - I was banned ( or I'm persona no grata) for the same reason (

telling the truth others don't want to hear) from so much groups I could make a

huge collection :-)

>

> For example: Years ago I made a lot of articles about sexual abuse of the

children - I wanted to rise awareness that this happened more times like we

wanted to hear and mostly in domestic environment. I worked a lot with some

NGO group with their lady boss ( ex cop) . We made a lot of good things.

>

> But....years later it was a huge expansion of false allegations in cases of

divorce ( it was really absurd numbers of that kind of cases) When I ( hardly)

convinced my boss that we had to do that , the same lady from NGO attacked me

very badly ( on forums, call my bosses and tell them bad things about me and I

suspect that she used her former co-workers (police) to secretly follow my

mails)

>

> She was convinced that it is better that some Innocent man ( or woman) goes to

prison for molesting his or her child than to miss some real abusing and she was

convinced if we would talk about false allegations people would stop believing

when some real one will occur.

>

> I was convinced that if one parent falsely accuse another parent that he or

she are sexual abusing their child ( for revenge or to cut other partner out

of children life) is total abuse of children and we have to protect them from

that too. And the only way to really stop that is to talk about that.

>

> I was the biggest and the worst bitch in the entire universe ( not just in her

eyes) but after that other journalists had courage to write about that and

institutes confess that this is happening (even she has to admit that publicly)

and things changed. It still happens but not so absurdly a lot and the

institutes are more sensitive about that.

>

> So Annie don't stop telling your truth. It is really important what you have

to tell and it makes so much difference for people who struggle with that issue

( including me) . I use your wisdom and your your words a lot when I'm trying to

explain things which are so hard to explain to others. And really really thank

you for your effort!!

> Hug

> Yenaine

[Guest guest]

Annie, I wanted to add my two cents in support. I think you have a righteous

anger that is inspiring. So many of us, me included, have trouble sometimes

with getting angry. Yet the anger is still there repressed in us knocking

about in the subconscious and breaking the china. It helps to hear someone

speak strongly on these issues. Glad you are here!

[Guest guest]

Annie, I wanted to add my two cents in support. I think you have a righteous

anger that is inspiring. So many of us, me included, have trouble sometimes

with getting angry. Yet the anger is still there repressed in us knocking

about in the subconscious and breaking the china. It helps to hear someone

speak strongly on these issues. Glad you are here!

[Guest guest]

Annie, I wanted to add my two cents in support. I think you have a righteous

anger that is inspiring. So many of us, me included, have trouble sometimes

with getting angry. Yet the anger is still there repressed in us knocking

about in the subconscious and breaking the china. It helps to hear someone

speak strongly on these issues. Glad you are here!

[Guest guest]

Thanks, !

>

> Annie, I wanted to add my two cents in support. I think you have a righteous

anger that is inspiring. So many of us, me included, have trouble sometimes

with getting angry. Yet the anger is still there repressed in us knocking

about in the subconscious and breaking the china. It helps to hear someone

speak strongly on these issues. Glad you are here!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, !

>

> Annie, I wanted to add my two cents in support. I think you have a righteous

anger that is inspiring. So many of us, me included, have trouble sometimes

with getting angry. Yet the anger is still there repressed in us knocking

about in the subconscious and breaking the china. It helps to hear someone

speak strongly on these issues. Glad you are here!

>

>

>