Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 i can relate to no reaction, that's how it was for me talking about the abuse (physical & verbal) before i really knew it was abuse... i know that's weird. i was kind of like 'it just happened'. that was 'normal' i agree with your t though, i think it is really bizarre that you had such a crappy bed, then a 2nd hand bed? very strange. neglectfull yes, neglect is also a form of abuse. i have no idea where my matress came from when i had a twin bed. it wasn't anything like that though, then again, my nada was kind of a neat freak. had to keep up appearances, you know. so i'm guessing it was probably new when she purchased it. i had a waterbed at my dad's house and at some point that ended up at nada's too. i think it was when dad & his 2nd wife were divorcing. mia On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Girlscout Cowboy < girlscout.cowboy@...> wrote: > > > So my T and were talking about hoarding last night and basically how > uncomfortable my childhood home was.I told her that there were only a > couple > of chairs I could sit in without having an allergic reaction because of the > dust, dander and unhygenic conditions. So I spent a lot of time standing > up. > > Anyway, i was telling her that I did have my own place to sleep, but my > mattress was my dad's mattress from his childhood. By the time I was in > about 4th grade it had holes about 4 inches around with bed spring popping > out of them on both sides. I would wake up covered in bruises and scratches > from the springs. My T was shocked. She was pretty much like " that was not > ok. " > > I looked inside for an emotional response - but all I could find was that > it > was true. That was how it was. My dad went, after a LONG time of me getting > beat up by my mattress, and bought me one from a second hand store. I don't > know why he did that. . . he had a good, stable job and an advanced degree. > We weren't destitute. I don't know why I was such a low priority. But all I > know is that it was how it was. That was what my parents did and those were > their choices. > > Thoughts guys? My T seemed to think I should be sobbing at the memory - but > to me its just normal. Is that neglect by the way? I guess its not abuse, > but I think it might be neglect. > > And while we are on it, what was everyone's childhood bed like? Perhaps > this > is a symbol of my past. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 i can relate to no reaction, that's how it was for me talking about the abuse (physical & verbal) before i really knew it was abuse... i know that's weird. i was kind of like 'it just happened'. that was 'normal' i agree with your t though, i think it is really bizarre that you had such a crappy bed, then a 2nd hand bed? very strange. neglectfull yes, neglect is also a form of abuse. i have no idea where my matress came from when i had a twin bed. it wasn't anything like that though, then again, my nada was kind of a neat freak. had to keep up appearances, you know. so i'm guessing it was probably new when she purchased it. i had a waterbed at my dad's house and at some point that ended up at nada's too. i think it was when dad & his 2nd wife were divorcing. mia On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Girlscout Cowboy < girlscout.cowboy@...> wrote: > > > So my T and were talking about hoarding last night and basically how > uncomfortable my childhood home was.I told her that there were only a > couple > of chairs I could sit in without having an allergic reaction because of the > dust, dander and unhygenic conditions. So I spent a lot of time standing > up. > > Anyway, i was telling her that I did have my own place to sleep, but my > mattress was my dad's mattress from his childhood. By the time I was in > about 4th grade it had holes about 4 inches around with bed spring popping > out of them on both sides. I would wake up covered in bruises and scratches > from the springs. My T was shocked. She was pretty much like " that was not > ok. " > > I looked inside for an emotional response - but all I could find was that > it > was true. That was how it was. My dad went, after a LONG time of me getting > beat up by my mattress, and bought me one from a second hand store. I don't > know why he did that. . . he had a good, stable job and an advanced degree. > We weren't destitute. I don't know why I was such a low priority. But all I > know is that it was how it was. That was what my parents did and those were > their choices. > > Thoughts guys? My T seemed to think I should be sobbing at the memory - but > to me its just normal. Is that neglect by the way? I guess its not abuse, > but I think it might be neglect. > > And while we are on it, what was everyone's childhood bed like? Perhaps > this > is a symbol of my past. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 i can relate to no reaction, that's how it was for me talking about the abuse (physical & verbal) before i really knew it was abuse... i know that's weird. i was kind of like 'it just happened'. that was 'normal' i agree with your t though, i think it is really bizarre that you had such a crappy bed, then a 2nd hand bed? very strange. neglectfull yes, neglect is also a form of abuse. i have no idea where my matress came from when i had a twin bed. it wasn't anything like that though, then again, my nada was kind of a neat freak. had to keep up appearances, you know. so i'm guessing it was probably new when she purchased it. i had a waterbed at my dad's house and at some point that ended up at nada's too. i think it was when dad & his 2nd wife were divorcing. mia On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Girlscout Cowboy < girlscout.cowboy@...> wrote: > > > So my T and were talking about hoarding last night and basically how > uncomfortable my childhood home was.I told her that there were only a > couple > of chairs I could sit in without having an allergic reaction because of the > dust, dander and unhygenic conditions. So I spent a lot of time standing > up. > > Anyway, i was telling her that I did have my own place to sleep, but my > mattress was my dad's mattress from his childhood. By the time I was in > about 4th grade it had holes about 4 inches around with bed spring popping > out of them on both sides. I would wake up covered in bruises and scratches > from the springs. My T was shocked. She was pretty much like " that was not > ok. " > > I looked inside for an emotional response - but all I could find was that > it > was true. That was how it was. My dad went, after a LONG time of me getting > beat up by my mattress, and bought me one from a second hand store. I don't > know why he did that. . . he had a good, stable job and an advanced degree. > We weren't destitute. I don't know why I was such a low priority. But all I > know is that it was how it was. That was what my parents did and those were > their choices. > > Thoughts guys? My T seemed to think I should be sobbing at the memory - but > to me its just normal. Is that neglect by the way? I guess its not abuse, > but I think it might be neglect. > > And while we are on it, what was everyone's childhood bed like? Perhaps > this > is a symbol of my past. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 I guess another " me too. " I'm always horrified when I hear about the physical abuse some posters here talk about from their witch/queen mothers (mine's a hermit/waif) but then I remember that I was hit quite a lot before the age of about 10, when I was suddenly as big as her and I think she was afraid I'd hit her back. What hurts me most is all the psychological and emotional abuse I've endured. The physical stuff I tend to not think about too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 I guess another " me too. " I'm always horrified when I hear about the physical abuse some posters here talk about from their witch/queen mothers (mine's a hermit/waif) but then I remember that I was hit quite a lot before the age of about 10, when I was suddenly as big as her and I think she was afraid I'd hit her back. What hurts me most is all the psychological and emotional abuse I've endured. The physical stuff I tend to not think about too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 I guess another " me too. " I'm always horrified when I hear about the physical abuse some posters here talk about from their witch/queen mothers (mine's a hermit/waif) but then I remember that I was hit quite a lot before the age of about 10, when I was suddenly as big as her and I think she was afraid I'd hit her back. What hurts me most is all the psychological and emotional abuse I've endured. The physical stuff I tend to not think about too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Amber, I agree... the psychologica & emotional were much worse for me too. i look back on it and yeah, the physical was bad too of course, but not as bad as all the " mind f**ks " she pulled. I think others here have mentioned similar feelings on it too. mia > > > I guess another " me too. " I'm always horrified when I hear about the > physical abuse some posters here talk about from their witch/queen mothers > (mine's a hermit/waif) but then I remember that I was hit quite a lot before > the age of about 10, when I was suddenly as big as her and I think she was > afraid I'd hit her back. > > What hurts me most is all the psychological and emotional abuse I've > endured. The physical stuff I tend to not think about too much. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Amber, I agree... the psychologica & emotional were much worse for me too. i look back on it and yeah, the physical was bad too of course, but not as bad as all the " mind f**ks " she pulled. I think others here have mentioned similar feelings on it too. mia > > > I guess another " me too. " I'm always horrified when I hear about the > physical abuse some posters here talk about from their witch/queen mothers > (mine's a hermit/waif) but then I remember that I was hit quite a lot before > the age of about 10, when I was suddenly as big as her and I think she was > afraid I'd hit her back. > > What hurts me most is all the psychological and emotional abuse I've > endured. The physical stuff I tend to not think about too much. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Amber, I agree... the psychologica & emotional were much worse for me too. i look back on it and yeah, the physical was bad too of course, but not as bad as all the " mind f**ks " she pulled. I think others here have mentioned similar feelings on it too. mia > > > I guess another " me too. " I'm always horrified when I hear about the > physical abuse some posters here talk about from their witch/queen mothers > (mine's a hermit/waif) but then I remember that I was hit quite a lot before > the age of about 10, when I was suddenly as big as her and I think she was > afraid I'd hit her back. > > What hurts me most is all the psychological and emotional abuse I've > endured. The physical stuff I tend to not think about too much. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Yes, neglect is abuse. Making your child live in a filthy environment that creates or exacerbates health problems is abuse. Making your child sleep on a mattress that was dangerous (you could have gotten an eye injury from bare springs sticking out and you were probably eaten up with bedbugs, fleas, ticks and even cockroaches) is just appalling. Your fada was actually engaged in a form of hoarding; he was piling up and hoarding the money he made and living like a pauper. That would be less heinous if he were just stinting his own self (denying himself luxuries) but to force his child to live like a homeless orphan in a third-world country is just appalling. Its appalling because children have no comprehension of their own condition, they believe they deserve to receive the treatment they receive from their parents, whatever that treatment is. Its the child's " normal. " Its a serious betrayal of trust, duty and responsibility when parents mistreat and neglect their kids. Neglected children feel deep shame when they begin to realize that their parents refuse to provide them with necessities, but will provide themselves or other siblings with necessities or even treats. The neglected child has no other option but to believe that it must be her own fault: if she was good enough her parents would love her and treat her the same as themselves and the other sibs. Maybe it would be a good idea if pre-natal care included a psychological exam and parenting classes for both parents to assess their strong points and weak points RE being good-enough parents. -Annie > > Amber, I agree... the psychologica & emotional were much worse for me too. > i look back on it and yeah, the physical was bad too of course, but not as > bad as all the " mind f**ks " she pulled. I think others here have mentioned > similar feelings on it too. > > mia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Yes, neglect is abuse. Making your child live in a filthy environment that creates or exacerbates health problems is abuse. Making your child sleep on a mattress that was dangerous (you could have gotten an eye injury from bare springs sticking out and you were probably eaten up with bedbugs, fleas, ticks and even cockroaches) is just appalling. Your fada was actually engaged in a form of hoarding; he was piling up and hoarding the money he made and living like a pauper. That would be less heinous if he were just stinting his own self (denying himself luxuries) but to force his child to live like a homeless orphan in a third-world country is just appalling. Its appalling because children have no comprehension of their own condition, they believe they deserve to receive the treatment they receive from their parents, whatever that treatment is. Its the child's " normal. " Its a serious betrayal of trust, duty and responsibility when parents mistreat and neglect their kids. Neglected children feel deep shame when they begin to realize that their parents refuse to provide them with necessities, but will provide themselves or other siblings with necessities or even treats. The neglected child has no other option but to believe that it must be her own fault: if she was good enough her parents would love her and treat her the same as themselves and the other sibs. Maybe it would be a good idea if pre-natal care included a psychological exam and parenting classes for both parents to assess their strong points and weak points RE being good-enough parents. -Annie > > Amber, I agree... the psychologica & emotional were much worse for me too. > i look back on it and yeah, the physical was bad too of course, but not as > bad as all the " mind f**ks " she pulled. I think others here have mentioned > similar feelings on it too. > > mia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 This is definitely neglect, and neglect IS abuse I believe. From other posts you've made about your childhood it seems you were very neglected as a kid, I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I know how you mean that it " just was " because you didn't know anything else, so how could you be sad about it? My parents didn't neglect me at all, my mother was trying to be not like HER mother, so she pretty much gave me everything she never had as a child. If anything my brother and I were spoiled. She neglected me in physical affection, though, which she gave to my brother freely. My bed was pretty decent, I'm pretty sure it was new - my mother refuses to buy things used. I don't remember much about it, except that when I was 3 or 4 I fell off and had to get stitches in my chin! When I was a teenager my parents bought me a full size bed (I wanted a water bed, but they got a normal one.) My nada wouldn't let me take it when I left home. Casey > > So my T and were talking about hoarding last night and basically how > uncomfortable my childhood home was.I told her that there were only a couple > of chairs I could sit in without having an allergic reaction because of the > dust, dander and unhygenic conditions. So I spent a lot of time standing up. > > > Anyway, i was telling her that I did have my own place to sleep, but my > mattress was my dad's mattress from his childhood. By the time I was in > about 4th grade it had holes about 4 inches around with bed spring popping > out of them on both sides. I would wake up covered in bruises and scratches > from the springs. My T was shocked. She was pretty much like " that was not > ok. " > > I looked inside for an emotional response - but all I could find was that it > was true. That was how it was. My dad went, after a LONG time of me getting > beat up by my mattress, and bought me one from a second hand store. I don't > know why he did that. . . he had a good, stable job and an advanced degree. > We weren't destitute. I don't know why I was such a low priority. But all I > know is that it was how it was. That was what my parents did and those were > their choices. > > Thoughts guys? My T seemed to think I should be sobbing at the memory - but > to me its just normal. Is that neglect by the way? I guess its not abuse, > but I think it might be neglect. > > And while we are on it, what was everyone's childhood bed like? Perhaps this > is a symbol of my past. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 I understand the nuance here. I remembered one of my first counselors telling me, " You just told me a horrible story, a terribly sad story and yet you do it with a complete lack of emotion. " The way I felt was, " You asked me how it was, this is how it was. It wasn't a bad thing, it just was what it was. " She said, " Sweety, it was a very BAD thing and what we will do is reconnect you with your emotions so you can heal and move on from this. " She did. It hurt...I'm only just now realizing the full extent of neglect and abuse we suffered at my nada's hands...one is being left alone at 7 in the apartment at night while she went out drinking and looking for men. " I was so scared, every little creek and groan of the building made me want to cry but I couldn't cry or my little brother would get scared. I was strong for him. Then there were abusive baby sitters - again, I could not cry - I had to be strong so I didn't scare him. I learned to cry later when the symptoms of unhealed pain showed up in my life as relationships with people so very unworthy of me. I felt they were the best I could get and I should be grateful. Gosh, now I know better. My parents were not THAT bad but their addictions clearly were taken care of before us kids. That was wrong. They should have known better but they didn't. In time, with therapy, I actually cried my last tear and worked on forgiveness. They were both mental in some capacity so in a way, they couldn't help it. I don't excuse wrong behavior but I accept it so I can forgive them. Forgiving them was not excusing them. I forgave them so I wouldn't have to carry the guilt, shame and toxic anger any more - so I could stop punishing myself. Keep up with the therapy. It has been an absolute life saver and can really bring all the pieces of you back together, healthy and whole. Much love and God speed on your healing journey! Jaie > > So my T and were talking about hoarding last night and basically how > uncomfortable my childhood home was.I told her that there were only a couple > of chairs I could sit in without having an allergic reaction because of the > dust, dander and unhygenic conditions. So I spent a lot of time standing up. > > > Anyway, i was telling her that I did have my own place to sleep, but my > mattress was my dad's mattress from his childhood. By the time I was in > about 4th grade it had holes about 4 inches around with bed spring popping > out of them on both sides. I would wake up covered in bruises and scratches > from the springs. My T was shocked. She was pretty much like " that was not > ok. " > > I looked inside for an emotional response - but all I could find was that it > was true. That was how it was. My dad went, after a LONG time of me getting > beat up by my mattress, and bought me one from a second hand store. I don't > know why he did that. . . he had a good, stable job and an advanced degree. > We weren't destitute. I don't know why I was such a low priority. But all I > know is that it was how it was. That was what my parents did and those were > their choices. > > Thoughts guys? My T seemed to think I should be sobbing at the memory - but > to me its just normal. Is that neglect by the way? I guess its not abuse, > but I think it might be neglect. > > And while we are on it, what was everyone's childhood bed like? Perhaps this > is a symbol of my past. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 I understand the nuance here. I remembered one of my first counselors telling me, " You just told me a horrible story, a terribly sad story and yet you do it with a complete lack of emotion. " The way I felt was, " You asked me how it was, this is how it was. It wasn't a bad thing, it just was what it was. " She said, " Sweety, it was a very BAD thing and what we will do is reconnect you with your emotions so you can heal and move on from this. " She did. It hurt...I'm only just now realizing the full extent of neglect and abuse we suffered at my nada's hands...one is being left alone at 7 in the apartment at night while she went out drinking and looking for men. " I was so scared, every little creek and groan of the building made me want to cry but I couldn't cry or my little brother would get scared. I was strong for him. Then there were abusive baby sitters - again, I could not cry - I had to be strong so I didn't scare him. I learned to cry later when the symptoms of unhealed pain showed up in my life as relationships with people so very unworthy of me. I felt they were the best I could get and I should be grateful. Gosh, now I know better. My parents were not THAT bad but their addictions clearly were taken care of before us kids. That was wrong. They should have known better but they didn't. In time, with therapy, I actually cried my last tear and worked on forgiveness. They were both mental in some capacity so in a way, they couldn't help it. I don't excuse wrong behavior but I accept it so I can forgive them. Forgiving them was not excusing them. I forgave them so I wouldn't have to carry the guilt, shame and toxic anger any more - so I could stop punishing myself. Keep up with the therapy. It has been an absolute life saver and can really bring all the pieces of you back together, healthy and whole. Much love and God speed on your healing journey! Jaie > > So my T and were talking about hoarding last night and basically how > uncomfortable my childhood home was.I told her that there were only a couple > of chairs I could sit in without having an allergic reaction because of the > dust, dander and unhygenic conditions. So I spent a lot of time standing up. > > > Anyway, i was telling her that I did have my own place to sleep, but my > mattress was my dad's mattress from his childhood. By the time I was in > about 4th grade it had holes about 4 inches around with bed spring popping > out of them on both sides. I would wake up covered in bruises and scratches > from the springs. My T was shocked. She was pretty much like " that was not > ok. " > > I looked inside for an emotional response - but all I could find was that it > was true. That was how it was. My dad went, after a LONG time of me getting > beat up by my mattress, and bought me one from a second hand store. I don't > know why he did that. . . he had a good, stable job and an advanced degree. > We weren't destitute. I don't know why I was such a low priority. But all I > know is that it was how it was. That was what my parents did and those were > their choices. > > Thoughts guys? My T seemed to think I should be sobbing at the memory - but > to me its just normal. Is that neglect by the way? I guess its not abuse, > but I think it might be neglect. > > And while we are on it, what was everyone's childhood bed like? Perhaps this > is a symbol of my past. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 I understand the nuance here. I remembered one of my first counselors telling me, " You just told me a horrible story, a terribly sad story and yet you do it with a complete lack of emotion. " The way I felt was, " You asked me how it was, this is how it was. It wasn't a bad thing, it just was what it was. " She said, " Sweety, it was a very BAD thing and what we will do is reconnect you with your emotions so you can heal and move on from this. " She did. It hurt...I'm only just now realizing the full extent of neglect and abuse we suffered at my nada's hands...one is being left alone at 7 in the apartment at night while she went out drinking and looking for men. " I was so scared, every little creek and groan of the building made me want to cry but I couldn't cry or my little brother would get scared. I was strong for him. Then there were abusive baby sitters - again, I could not cry - I had to be strong so I didn't scare him. I learned to cry later when the symptoms of unhealed pain showed up in my life as relationships with people so very unworthy of me. I felt they were the best I could get and I should be grateful. Gosh, now I know better. My parents were not THAT bad but their addictions clearly were taken care of before us kids. That was wrong. They should have known better but they didn't. In time, with therapy, I actually cried my last tear and worked on forgiveness. They were both mental in some capacity so in a way, they couldn't help it. I don't excuse wrong behavior but I accept it so I can forgive them. Forgiving them was not excusing them. I forgave them so I wouldn't have to carry the guilt, shame and toxic anger any more - so I could stop punishing myself. Keep up with the therapy. It has been an absolute life saver and can really bring all the pieces of you back together, healthy and whole. Much love and God speed on your healing journey! Jaie > > So my T and were talking about hoarding last night and basically how > uncomfortable my childhood home was.I told her that there were only a couple > of chairs I could sit in without having an allergic reaction because of the > dust, dander and unhygenic conditions. So I spent a lot of time standing up. > > > Anyway, i was telling her that I did have my own place to sleep, but my > mattress was my dad's mattress from his childhood. By the time I was in > about 4th grade it had holes about 4 inches around with bed spring popping > out of them on both sides. I would wake up covered in bruises and scratches > from the springs. My T was shocked. She was pretty much like " that was not > ok. " > > I looked inside for an emotional response - but all I could find was that it > was true. That was how it was. My dad went, after a LONG time of me getting > beat up by my mattress, and bought me one from a second hand store. I don't > know why he did that. . . he had a good, stable job and an advanced degree. > We weren't destitute. I don't know why I was such a low priority. But all I > know is that it was how it was. That was what my parents did and those were > their choices. > > Thoughts guys? My T seemed to think I should be sobbing at the memory - but > to me its just normal. Is that neglect by the way? I guess its not abuse, > but I think it might be neglect. > > And while we are on it, what was everyone's childhood bed like? Perhaps this > is a symbol of my past. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Huh well I'll be damned. I really had no idea that most other kids had brand new beds. I feel like a dufus or a country bumpkin or something. i know that dogs aren't the same as kids, but last night boyfriend carried our brand new Christmas dog beds into the bedroom from the living room. The one our old rottweiler had been sleeping on at night was not as soft as it used to be. So that was my way of honoring the childhood me - by making sure MY baby had a soft and warm place to sleep. Yeah, I still don't feel sad or anything really about the bed. Just more intellectually curious. And I feel like it's another example of the fact that I was worthless - or treated as such. And Annie, to your point, I had ticks many many times, my dad would burn them or smother them off me, and once one was in a very private area and it was embarassing. But bed bugs were rare, fleas don't exist and cockroaches don't thrive out here in the west. But I had plenty of other gross things. yeah, the doctors would tell nada that I shouldn't be around a million animals or in a dusty dirty home because of asthma and allergies, and so she taught me to lie to the doctors. That I know is neglect. The rest of it, I have to look up in the CPS manuals to see what the definition is. Is that weird, that I want to see in black and white an official opinion that it is abuse or neglect? I want to know for sure. I want to see it in official written form. I guess that's because I really truely didn't know any better. > > > I understand the nuance here. I remembered one of my first counselors > telling me, " You just told me a horrible story, a terribly sad story and yet > you do it with a complete lack of emotion. " The way I felt was, " You asked > me how it was, this is how it was. It wasn't a bad thing, it just was what > it was. " She said, " Sweety, it was a very BAD thing and what we will do is > reconnect you with your emotions so you can heal and move on from this. " She > did. It hurt...I'm only just now realizing the full extent of neglect and > abuse we suffered at my nada's hands...one is being left alone at 7 in the > apartment at night while she went out drinking and looking for men. " I was > so scared, every little creek and groan of the building made me want to cry > but I couldn't cry or my little brother would get scared. I was strong for > him. Then there were abusive baby sitters - again, I could not cry - I had > to be strong so I didn't scare him. I learned to cry later when the symptoms > of unhealed pain showed up in my life as relationships with people so very > unworthy of me. I felt they were the best I could get and I should be > grateful. Gosh, now I know better. My parents were not THAT bad but their > addictions clearly were taken care of before us kids. That was wrong. They > should have known better but they didn't. > > In time, with therapy, I actually cried my last tear and worked on > forgiveness. They were both mental in some capacity so in a way, they > couldn't help it. I don't excuse wrong behavior but I accept it so I can > forgive them. Forgiving them was not excusing them. I forgave them so I > wouldn't have to carry the guilt, shame and toxic anger any more - so I > could stop punishing myself. > > Keep up with the therapy. It has been an absolute life saver and can really > bring all the pieces of you back together, healthy and whole. > > Much love and God speed on your healing journey! > > Jaie > > > > > > > So my T and were talking about hoarding last night and basically how > > uncomfortable my childhood home was.I told her that there were only a > couple > > of chairs I could sit in without having an allergic reaction because of > the > > dust, dander and unhygenic conditions. So I spent a lot of time standing > up. > > > > > > Anyway, i was telling her that I did have my own place to sleep, but my > > mattress was my dad's mattress from his childhood. By the time I was in > > about 4th grade it had holes about 4 inches around with bed spring > popping > > out of them on both sides. I would wake up covered in bruises and > scratches > > from the springs. My T was shocked. She was pretty much like " that was > not > > ok. " > > > > I looked inside for an emotional response - but all I could find was that > it > > was true. That was how it was. My dad went, after a LONG time of me > getting > > beat up by my mattress, and bought me one from a second hand store. I > don't > > know why he did that. . . he had a good, stable job and an advanced > degree. > > We weren't destitute. I don't know why I was such a low priority. But all > I > > know is that it was how it was. That was what my parents did and those > were > > their choices. > > > > Thoughts guys? My T seemed to think I should be sobbing at the memory - > but > > to me its just normal. Is that neglect by the way? I guess its not abuse, > > but I think it might be neglect. > > > > And while we are on it, what was everyone's childhood bed like? Perhaps > this > > is a symbol of my past. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Huh well I'll be damned. I really had no idea that most other kids had brand new beds. I feel like a dufus or a country bumpkin or something. i know that dogs aren't the same as kids, but last night boyfriend carried our brand new Christmas dog beds into the bedroom from the living room. The one our old rottweiler had been sleeping on at night was not as soft as it used to be. So that was my way of honoring the childhood me - by making sure MY baby had a soft and warm place to sleep. Yeah, I still don't feel sad or anything really about the bed. Just more intellectually curious. And I feel like it's another example of the fact that I was worthless - or treated as such. And Annie, to your point, I had ticks many many times, my dad would burn them or smother them off me, and once one was in a very private area and it was embarassing. But bed bugs were rare, fleas don't exist and cockroaches don't thrive out here in the west. But I had plenty of other gross things. yeah, the doctors would tell nada that I shouldn't be around a million animals or in a dusty dirty home because of asthma and allergies, and so she taught me to lie to the doctors. That I know is neglect. The rest of it, I have to look up in the CPS manuals to see what the definition is. Is that weird, that I want to see in black and white an official opinion that it is abuse or neglect? I want to know for sure. I want to see it in official written form. I guess that's because I really truely didn't know any better. > > > I understand the nuance here. I remembered one of my first counselors > telling me, " You just told me a horrible story, a terribly sad story and yet > you do it with a complete lack of emotion. " The way I felt was, " You asked > me how it was, this is how it was. It wasn't a bad thing, it just was what > it was. " She said, " Sweety, it was a very BAD thing and what we will do is > reconnect you with your emotions so you can heal and move on from this. " She > did. It hurt...I'm only just now realizing the full extent of neglect and > abuse we suffered at my nada's hands...one is being left alone at 7 in the > apartment at night while she went out drinking and looking for men. " I was > so scared, every little creek and groan of the building made me want to cry > but I couldn't cry or my little brother would get scared. I was strong for > him. Then there were abusive baby sitters - again, I could not cry - I had > to be strong so I didn't scare him. I learned to cry later when the symptoms > of unhealed pain showed up in my life as relationships with people so very > unworthy of me. I felt they were the best I could get and I should be > grateful. Gosh, now I know better. My parents were not THAT bad but their > addictions clearly were taken care of before us kids. That was wrong. They > should have known better but they didn't. > > In time, with therapy, I actually cried my last tear and worked on > forgiveness. They were both mental in some capacity so in a way, they > couldn't help it. I don't excuse wrong behavior but I accept it so I can > forgive them. Forgiving them was not excusing them. I forgave them so I > wouldn't have to carry the guilt, shame and toxic anger any more - so I > could stop punishing myself. > > Keep up with the therapy. It has been an absolute life saver and can really > bring all the pieces of you back together, healthy and whole. > > Much love and God speed on your healing journey! > > Jaie > > > > > > > So my T and were talking about hoarding last night and basically how > > uncomfortable my childhood home was.I told her that there were only a > couple > > of chairs I could sit in without having an allergic reaction because of > the > > dust, dander and unhygenic conditions. So I spent a lot of time standing > up. > > > > > > Anyway, i was telling her that I did have my own place to sleep, but my > > mattress was my dad's mattress from his childhood. By the time I was in > > about 4th grade it had holes about 4 inches around with bed spring > popping > > out of them on both sides. I would wake up covered in bruises and > scratches > > from the springs. My T was shocked. She was pretty much like " that was > not > > ok. " > > > > I looked inside for an emotional response - but all I could find was that > it > > was true. That was how it was. My dad went, after a LONG time of me > getting > > beat up by my mattress, and bought me one from a second hand store. I > don't > > know why he did that. . . he had a good, stable job and an advanced > degree. > > We weren't destitute. I don't know why I was such a low priority. But all > I > > know is that it was how it was. That was what my parents did and those > were > > their choices. > > > > Thoughts guys? My T seemed to think I should be sobbing at the memory - > but > > to me its just normal. Is that neglect by the way? I guess its not abuse, > > but I think it might be neglect. > > > > And while we are on it, what was everyone's childhood bed like? Perhaps > this > > is a symbol of my past. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Huh well I'll be damned. I really had no idea that most other kids had brand new beds. I feel like a dufus or a country bumpkin or something. i know that dogs aren't the same as kids, but last night boyfriend carried our brand new Christmas dog beds into the bedroom from the living room. The one our old rottweiler had been sleeping on at night was not as soft as it used to be. So that was my way of honoring the childhood me - by making sure MY baby had a soft and warm place to sleep. Yeah, I still don't feel sad or anything really about the bed. Just more intellectually curious. And I feel like it's another example of the fact that I was worthless - or treated as such. And Annie, to your point, I had ticks many many times, my dad would burn them or smother them off me, and once one was in a very private area and it was embarassing. But bed bugs were rare, fleas don't exist and cockroaches don't thrive out here in the west. But I had plenty of other gross things. yeah, the doctors would tell nada that I shouldn't be around a million animals or in a dusty dirty home because of asthma and allergies, and so she taught me to lie to the doctors. That I know is neglect. The rest of it, I have to look up in the CPS manuals to see what the definition is. Is that weird, that I want to see in black and white an official opinion that it is abuse or neglect? I want to know for sure. I want to see it in official written form. I guess that's because I really truely didn't know any better. > > > I understand the nuance here. I remembered one of my first counselors > telling me, " You just told me a horrible story, a terribly sad story and yet > you do it with a complete lack of emotion. " The way I felt was, " You asked > me how it was, this is how it was. It wasn't a bad thing, it just was what > it was. " She said, " Sweety, it was a very BAD thing and what we will do is > reconnect you with your emotions so you can heal and move on from this. " She > did. It hurt...I'm only just now realizing the full extent of neglect and > abuse we suffered at my nada's hands...one is being left alone at 7 in the > apartment at night while she went out drinking and looking for men. " I was > so scared, every little creek and groan of the building made me want to cry > but I couldn't cry or my little brother would get scared. I was strong for > him. Then there were abusive baby sitters - again, I could not cry - I had > to be strong so I didn't scare him. I learned to cry later when the symptoms > of unhealed pain showed up in my life as relationships with people so very > unworthy of me. I felt they were the best I could get and I should be > grateful. Gosh, now I know better. My parents were not THAT bad but their > addictions clearly were taken care of before us kids. That was wrong. They > should have known better but they didn't. > > In time, with therapy, I actually cried my last tear and worked on > forgiveness. They were both mental in some capacity so in a way, they > couldn't help it. I don't excuse wrong behavior but I accept it so I can > forgive them. Forgiving them was not excusing them. I forgave them so I > wouldn't have to carry the guilt, shame and toxic anger any more - so I > could stop punishing myself. > > Keep up with the therapy. It has been an absolute life saver and can really > bring all the pieces of you back together, healthy and whole. > > Much love and God speed on your healing journey! > > Jaie > > > > > > > So my T and were talking about hoarding last night and basically how > > uncomfortable my childhood home was.I told her that there were only a > couple > > of chairs I could sit in without having an allergic reaction because of > the > > dust, dander and unhygenic conditions. So I spent a lot of time standing > up. > > > > > > Anyway, i was telling her that I did have my own place to sleep, but my > > mattress was my dad's mattress from his childhood. By the time I was in > > about 4th grade it had holes about 4 inches around with bed spring > popping > > out of them on both sides. I would wake up covered in bruises and > scratches > > from the springs. My T was shocked. She was pretty much like " that was > not > > ok. " > > > > I looked inside for an emotional response - but all I could find was that > it > > was true. That was how it was. My dad went, after a LONG time of me > getting > > beat up by my mattress, and bought me one from a second hand store. I > don't > > know why he did that. . . he had a good, stable job and an advanced > degree. > > We weren't destitute. I don't know why I was such a low priority. But all > I > > know is that it was how it was. That was what my parents did and those > were > > their choices. > > > > Thoughts guys? My T seemed to think I should be sobbing at the memory - > but > > to me its just normal. Is that neglect by the way? I guess its not abuse, > > but I think it might be neglect. > > > > And while we are on it, what was everyone's childhood bed like? Perhaps > this > > is a symbol of my past. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 You wrote: > Thoughts guys? My T seemed to think I should be sobbing at the memory - but > to me its just normal. Is that neglect by the way? I guess its not abuse, > but I think it might be neglect. > > And while we are on it, what was everyone's childhood bed like? Perhaps this > is a symbol of my past. > > I think a lot of us have that response when someone tells us we were abused in our childhood. So many of us had to self parent that I think we turned off the part of us that should be sad, or angry over the abuse. My mother died when I was 3 and I was never allowed to grieve, I kind of sort of had to go into self-parenting and parenting the Fada mode. I was lucky I lived with an aunt and while that was definitely a dysfunctional existence it was better than living with fada full time. After I was in my forties I was sitting with my Dad when he was telling a new acquaintance how hard his life was and how he had to raise me all by himself. I made the off hand comment " Yeah it wasn't easy for me, growing up without a mother, either. " and he gave me the dirtiest look anyone's every given me in my life. At that moment I knew I never mattered, no wonder when some one identifies abuse in our childhood we almost have a non-reaction. We were given countless overt and covert messages that we didn't matter, and we probably survived by telling ourselves the abuse didn't matter. I will never forget the look of anger, hatred, and disdain on Fada's face when I pointed out that I grew up without a mother, at that moment I knew no one's pain mattered but his. Oh BTW I slept in a crib until I was 8 and was too long for it. Kay > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 That's why child neglect and abuse is so reprehensible: because the child can't comprehend that she's being abused (the same as a little neglected and abused puppy.) Children just think that's the way things *are.* In cases where there is severe scapegoating and only one child is targeted for abuse and deprivation, that child can only believe that she somehow deserves it because she is bad or worthless. If you Google " children living in filth " you'll find way too many news stories about children neglected and deprived and living in shocking filth, to the point that they develop medical problems. Here's a couple of instances in which filth-encrusted, urine-soaked mattresses are mentioned: http://www.wpxi.com/news/26532102/detail.html http://www.wsbtv.com/news/24686008/detail.html In each of these cases the parents were charged with felony-level child neglect, indicating that the abuse was severe and had been going on for a long time. Apparently, the decision about whether the child endangerment or child cruelty charges are felony-level or not depends on the condition of the children's health, or lack of health. -Annie > > Huh well I'll be damned. I really had no idea that most other kids had brand > new beds. I feel like a dufus or a country bumpkin or something. > > i know that dogs aren't the same as kids, but last night boyfriend carried > our brand new Christmas dog beds into the bedroom from the living room. The > one our old rottweiler had been sleeping on at night was not as soft as it > used to be. So that was my way of honoring the childhood me - by making sure > MY baby had a soft and warm place to sleep. > > Yeah, I still don't feel sad or anything really about the bed. Just more > intellectually curious. And I feel like it's another example of the fact > that I was worthless - or treated as such. > > And Annie, to your point, I had ticks many many times, my dad would burn > them or smother them off me, and once one was in a very private area and it > was embarassing. But bed bugs were rare, fleas don't exist and cockroaches > don't thrive out here in the west. But I had plenty of other gross things. > yeah, the doctors would tell nada that I shouldn't be around a million > animals or in a dusty dirty home because of asthma and allergies, and so she > taught me to lie to the doctors. That I know is neglect. The rest of it, I > have to look up in the CPS manuals to see what the definition is. > > Is that weird, that I want to see in black and white an official opinion > that it is abuse or neglect? I want to know for sure. I want to see it in > official written form. I guess that's because I really truely didn't know > any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 That's why child neglect and abuse is so reprehensible: because the child can't comprehend that she's being abused (the same as a little neglected and abused puppy.) Children just think that's the way things *are.* In cases where there is severe scapegoating and only one child is targeted for abuse and deprivation, that child can only believe that she somehow deserves it because she is bad or worthless. If you Google " children living in filth " you'll find way too many news stories about children neglected and deprived and living in shocking filth, to the point that they develop medical problems. Here's a couple of instances in which filth-encrusted, urine-soaked mattresses are mentioned: http://www.wpxi.com/news/26532102/detail.html http://www.wsbtv.com/news/24686008/detail.html In each of these cases the parents were charged with felony-level child neglect, indicating that the abuse was severe and had been going on for a long time. Apparently, the decision about whether the child endangerment or child cruelty charges are felony-level or not depends on the condition of the children's health, or lack of health. -Annie > > Huh well I'll be damned. I really had no idea that most other kids had brand > new beds. I feel like a dufus or a country bumpkin or something. > > i know that dogs aren't the same as kids, but last night boyfriend carried > our brand new Christmas dog beds into the bedroom from the living room. The > one our old rottweiler had been sleeping on at night was not as soft as it > used to be. So that was my way of honoring the childhood me - by making sure > MY baby had a soft and warm place to sleep. > > Yeah, I still don't feel sad or anything really about the bed. Just more > intellectually curious. And I feel like it's another example of the fact > that I was worthless - or treated as such. > > And Annie, to your point, I had ticks many many times, my dad would burn > them or smother them off me, and once one was in a very private area and it > was embarassing. But bed bugs were rare, fleas don't exist and cockroaches > don't thrive out here in the west. But I had plenty of other gross things. > yeah, the doctors would tell nada that I shouldn't be around a million > animals or in a dusty dirty home because of asthma and allergies, and so she > taught me to lie to the doctors. That I know is neglect. The rest of it, I > have to look up in the CPS manuals to see what the definition is. > > Is that weird, that I want to see in black and white an official opinion > that it is abuse or neglect? I want to know for sure. I want to see it in > official written form. I guess that's because I really truely didn't know > any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 That's why child neglect and abuse is so reprehensible: because the child can't comprehend that she's being abused (the same as a little neglected and abused puppy.) Children just think that's the way things *are.* In cases where there is severe scapegoating and only one child is targeted for abuse and deprivation, that child can only believe that she somehow deserves it because she is bad or worthless. If you Google " children living in filth " you'll find way too many news stories about children neglected and deprived and living in shocking filth, to the point that they develop medical problems. Here's a couple of instances in which filth-encrusted, urine-soaked mattresses are mentioned: http://www.wpxi.com/news/26532102/detail.html http://www.wsbtv.com/news/24686008/detail.html In each of these cases the parents were charged with felony-level child neglect, indicating that the abuse was severe and had been going on for a long time. Apparently, the decision about whether the child endangerment or child cruelty charges are felony-level or not depends on the condition of the children's health, or lack of health. -Annie > > Huh well I'll be damned. I really had no idea that most other kids had brand > new beds. I feel like a dufus or a country bumpkin or something. > > i know that dogs aren't the same as kids, but last night boyfriend carried > our brand new Christmas dog beds into the bedroom from the living room. The > one our old rottweiler had been sleeping on at night was not as soft as it > used to be. So that was my way of honoring the childhood me - by making sure > MY baby had a soft and warm place to sleep. > > Yeah, I still don't feel sad or anything really about the bed. Just more > intellectually curious. And I feel like it's another example of the fact > that I was worthless - or treated as such. > > And Annie, to your point, I had ticks many many times, my dad would burn > them or smother them off me, and once one was in a very private area and it > was embarassing. But bed bugs were rare, fleas don't exist and cockroaches > don't thrive out here in the west. But I had plenty of other gross things. > yeah, the doctors would tell nada that I shouldn't be around a million > animals or in a dusty dirty home because of asthma and allergies, and so she > taught me to lie to the doctors. That I know is neglect. The rest of it, I > have to look up in the CPS manuals to see what the definition is. > > Is that weird, that I want to see in black and white an official opinion > that it is abuse or neglect? I want to know for sure. I want to see it in > official written form. I guess that's because I really truely didn't know > any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Not to make light, but you guys are really making me paranoid about my old mattress. > > > > Huh well I'll be damned. I really had no idea that most other kids had brand > > new beds. I feel like a dufus or a country bumpkin or something. > > > > i know that dogs aren't the same as kids, but last night boyfriend carried > > our brand new Christmas dog beds into the bedroom from the living room. The > > one our old rottweiler had been sleeping on at night was not as soft as it > > used to be. So that was my way of honoring the childhood me - by making sure > > MY baby had a soft and warm place to sleep. > > > > Yeah, I still don't feel sad or anything really about the bed. Just more > > intellectually curious. And I feel like it's another example of the fact > > that I was worthless - or treated as such. > > > > And Annie, to your point, I had ticks many many times, my dad would burn > > them or smother them off me, and once one was in a very private area and it > > was embarassing. But bed bugs were rare, fleas don't exist and cockroaches > > don't thrive out here in the west. But I had plenty of other gross things. > > yeah, the doctors would tell nada that I shouldn't be around a million > > animals or in a dusty dirty home because of asthma and allergies, and so she > > taught me to lie to the doctors. That I know is neglect. The rest of it, I > > have to look up in the CPS manuals to see what the definition is. > > > > Is that weird, that I want to see in black and white an official opinion > > that it is abuse or neglect? I want to know for sure. I want to see it in > > official written form. I guess that's because I really truely didn't know > > any better. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 I know what you mean! All this reading about filthy mattresses makes me realize that my mattress, while not filthy, is about 10 years old now so I need to consider replacing it this year. -Annie > > > > > > Huh well I'll be damned. I really had no idea that most other kids had brand > > > new beds. I feel like a dufus or a country bumpkin or something. > > > > > > i know that dogs aren't the same as kids, but last night boyfriend carried > > > our brand new Christmas dog beds into the bedroom from the living room. The > > > one our old rottweiler had been sleeping on at night was not as soft as it > > > used to be. So that was my way of honoring the childhood me - by making sure > > > MY baby had a soft and warm place to sleep. > > > > > > Yeah, I still don't feel sad or anything really about the bed. Just more > > > intellectually curious. And I feel like it's another example of the fact > > > that I was worthless - or treated as such. > > > > > > And Annie, to your point, I had ticks many many times, my dad would burn > > > them or smother them off me, and once one was in a very private area and it > > > was embarassing. But bed bugs were rare, fleas don't exist and cockroaches > > > don't thrive out here in the west. But I had plenty of other gross things. > > > yeah, the doctors would tell nada that I shouldn't be around a million > > > animals or in a dusty dirty home because of asthma and allergies, and so she > > > taught me to lie to the doctors. That I know is neglect. The rest of it, I > > > have to look up in the CPS manuals to see what the definition is. > > > > > > Is that weird, that I want to see in black and white an official opinion > > > that it is abuse or neglect? I want to know for sure. I want to see it in > > > official written form. I guess that's because I really truely didn't know > > > any better. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 How odd. I slept on my dad's old mattress as well. I didn't know any better, either. My parents could have afforded a new mattress at any time as well. Eventually, they got me a new one. Yes, it was neglect. In your case, I'd even add abuse if you were getting bruises. It was just . . . there were so many other, more traumatic and more intense dangers to deal with every day. What was the point of getting too upset over a mattress? That makes total sense to me. I can tell you one thing, though . . . no decent human being would let their dog sleep on something that would give it physical wounds. Much less their kid. Hope that helps. Blessings, Karla > > So my T and were talking about hoarding last night and basically how > uncomfortable my childhood home was.I told her that there were only a couple > of chairs I could sit in without having an allergic reaction because of the > dust, dander and unhygenic conditions. So I spent a lot of time standing up. > > > Anyway, i was telling her that I did have my own place to sleep, but my > mattress was my dad's mattress from his childhood. By the time I was in > about 4th grade it had holes about 4 inches around with bed spring popping > out of them on both sides. I would wake up covered in bruises and scratches > from the springs. My T was shocked. She was pretty much like " that was not > ok. " > > I looked inside for an emotional response - but all I could find was that it > was true. That was how it was. My dad went, after a LONG time of me getting > beat up by my mattress, and bought me one from a second hand store. I don't > know why he did that. . . he had a good, stable job and an advanced degree. > We weren't destitute. I don't know why I was such a low priority. But all I > know is that it was how it was. That was what my parents did and those were > their choices. > > Thoughts guys? My T seemed to think I should be sobbing at the memory - but > to me its just normal. Is that neglect by the way? I guess its not abuse, > but I think it might be neglect. > > And while we are on it, what was everyone's childhood bed like? Perhaps this > is a symbol of my past. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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