Re: Nada casually taking credit for my well-being.

[Guest guest]

You said, " Casually " ... mine takes credit for my Doctorate... blatantly.

" Yeah, mom " ... I learned a lot from you. As a child. Homeless.

Lynnette

>

> First off, this one really offended me!

>

> A few days ago during a telephone conversation with my nada, I was

half-listening to her talk at great length about friends and events I have no

familiarity with...when I caught her mentioning a story to the effect of the

following: A friend of hers evidently mentioned her daughter exhibiting familiar

symptoms of depression, which all-in-all my nada has effectively caused and in

part maintained since I was 12 or 13 years old. Now she says that she advised

her friend to get her daughter help as soon as she could (which I commended in

sincerity) right before blurting, " You know, if I could've gotten Elle (me) the

help she needed earlier, who knows what a difference that would've made. "

>

> To some, this may sound like a passing remark which bears little or no weight.

But to me, this only reflects her absolute ignorance about her part in my

sickness, NOT TO MENTION (and this is the worst part for me) her hatred of my

psychologist, whom she attempted to separate me from around the time she

attempted to separate me from my best friend and greatest source of

non-professional support. As I first attended therapy for GAD, though it quickly

became obvious I was primarily suffering from major depression, my nada actually

tried to dissuade me from believing the things my therapist was telling me in an

effort to end my codependency and suicidal thoughts--both stemming from, of

course, an emotionally abusive/manipulative, BPD parent. She discouraged me from

maintaining therapy and again later from taking anti-depressants, the things

which, in the end, enabled me to overcome my suicidal impulses and become strong

enough to confront my illness before it consumed me. During the first few years

of therapy, she served as nothing to me but a deliberate obstacle to my

well-being.

>

> So, for her to say calmly and casually, " If -I- would have known, I would have

given her the help she needed sooner than I did, " is to me repuslive, ignorant,

and one more testament to BPD inability to accept blame, not to mention the

power of their denial. Looking back on the screaming matches in which I

forthrightly told her that she was the root cause of my suicidal behaviors, she

can only remember that -she- gave me help, and if only she had noticed

sooner...!

>

> Hopefully someone else can understand my frustration and relate their story as

well. Thank you for listening, everyone,

>

> Elle

>

[Guest guest]

Yes! I can relate to your frustration. My nada's tendency to re-write history

(so that nada is always in the favorable position: nada the rescuer or nada the

victim) is absolutely crazy-making.

So for me, it boils down to this: I cannot have a relationship with someone

whose version of moment-to-moment real-time reality (and history) is so nearly

diametrically opposed to mine.

Its too upsetting, energy-draining and health-draining for me to be in a

position of continually having to defend what I know to be the truth and in most

cases I can objectively demonstrate to be the truth.

Its sad, but this clash of realities is a major roadblock for me resuming

contact with my nada.

-Annie

>

> First off, this one really offended me!

>

> A few days ago during a telephone conversation with my nada, I was

half-listening to her talk at great length about friends and events I have no

familiarity with...when I caught her mentioning a story to the effect of the

following: A friend of hers evidently mentioned her daughter exhibiting familiar

symptoms of depression, which all-in-all my nada has effectively caused and in

part maintained since I was 12 or 13 years old. Now she says that she advised

her friend to get her daughter help as soon as she could (which I commended in

sincerity) right before blurting, " You know, if I could've gotten Elle (me) the

help she needed earlier, who knows what a difference that would've made. "

>

> To some, this may sound like a passing remark which bears little or no weight.

But to me, this only reflects her absolute ignorance about her part in my

sickness, NOT TO MENTION (and this is the worst part for me) her hatred of my

psychologist, whom she attempted to separate me from around the time she

attempted to separate me from my best friend and greatest source of

non-professional support. As I first attended therapy for GAD, though it quickly

became obvious I was primarily suffering from major depression, my nada actually

tried to dissuade me from believing the things my therapist was telling me in an

effort to end my codependency and suicidal thoughts--both stemming from, of

course, an emotionally abusive/manipulative, BPD parent. She discouraged me from

maintaining therapy and again later from taking anti-depressants, the things

which, in the end, enabled me to overcome my suicidal impulses and become strong

enough to confront my illness before it consumed me. During the first few years

of therapy, she served as nothing to me but a deliberate obstacle to my

well-being.

>

> So, for her to say calmly and casually, " If -I- would have known, I would have

given her the help she needed sooner than I did, " is to me repuslive, ignorant,

and one more testament to BPD inability to accept blame, not to mention the

power of their denial. Looking back on the screaming matches in which I

forthrightly told her that she was the root cause of my suicidal behaviors, she

can only remember that -she- gave me help, and if only she had noticed

sooner...!

>

> Hopefully someone else can understand my frustration and relate their story as

well. Thank you for listening, everyone,

>

> Elle

>

[Guest guest]

Annie, I agree - her view of reality is opposed to mine.

I guess where I struggle is that an entire community thought she was the one

who was right and took her side. Where I get confused is how do I know for

sure that I am right and she is wrong?

Ugh

On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 1:18 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

>

>

> Yes! I can relate to your frustration. My nada's tendency to re-write

> history (so that nada is always in the favorable position: nada the rescuer

> or nada the victim) is absolutely crazy-making.

>

> So for me, it boils down to this: I cannot have a relationship with someone

> whose version of moment-to-moment real-time reality (and history) is so

> nearly diametrically opposed to mine.

>

> Its too upsetting, energy-draining and health-draining for me to be in a

> position of continually having to defend what I know to be the truth and in

> most cases I can objectively demonstrate to be the truth.

>

> Its sad, but this clash of realities is a major roadblock for me resuming

> contact with my nada.

>

> -Annie

>

>

> >

> > First off, this one really offended me!

> >

> > A few days ago during a telephone conversation with my nada, I was

> half-listening to her talk at great length about friends and events I have

> no familiarity with...when I caught her mentioning a story to the effect of

> the following: A friend of hers evidently mentioned her daughter exhibiting

> familiar symptoms of depression, which all-in-all my nada has effectively

> caused and in part maintained since I was 12 or 13 years old. Now she says

> that she advised her friend to get her daughter help as soon as she could

> (which I commended in sincerity) right before blurting, " You know, if I

> could've gotten Elle (me) the help she needed earlier, who knows what a

> difference that would've made. "

> >

> > To some, this may sound like a passing remark which bears little or no

> weight. But to me, this only reflects her absolute ignorance about her part

> in my sickness, NOT TO MENTION (and this is the worst part for me) her

> hatred of my psychologist, whom she attempted to separate me from around the

> time she attempted to separate me from my best friend and greatest source of

> non-professional support. As I first attended therapy for GAD, though it

> quickly became obvious I was primarily suffering from major depression, my

> nada actually tried to dissuade me from believing the things my therapist

> was telling me in an effort to end my codependency and suicidal

> thoughts--both stemming from, of course, an emotionally

> abusive/manipulative, BPD parent. She discouraged me from maintaining

> therapy and again later from taking anti-depressants, the things which, in

> the end, enabled me to overcome my suicidal impulses and become strong

> enough to confront my illness before it consumed me. During the first few

> years of therapy, she served as nothing to me but a deliberate obstacle to

> my well-being.

> >

> > So, for her to say calmly and casually, " If -I- would have known, I would

> have given her the help she needed sooner than I did, " is to me repuslive,

> ignorant, and one more testament to BPD inability to accept blame, not to

> mention the power of their denial. Looking back on the screaming matches in

> which I forthrightly told her that she was the root cause of my suicidal

> behaviors, she can only remember that -she- gave me help, and if only she

> had noticed sooner...!

> >

> > Hopefully someone else can understand my frustration and relate their

> story as well. Thank you for listening, everyone,

> >

> > Elle

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Truly, when its one person's word against another's with no hard evidence to

back you up, then, how do you know who is right? Its he said/she said. The

only way I am comfortable that my version of reality is pretty solid and my

memories are pretty accurate is that I have my younger Sister as my reality

check, as I am for her.

Sister and I were not friends as children, which is totally my fault as the

older sib. I truly believe that if it is possible for a 4 year old child to be

technically insane, then, I was freaking insane. I was convinced that my baby

sister was my replacement and I wanted her dead. Sibling rivalry of biblical

proportions.

Only a few years ago, one day my nada casually shared with me that she (nada)

had " given up on having a normal, loving mother-daughter relationship " with me

by the time I was 3 years old (!!) Nada went on to say that she'd been

convinced that I hated her and rejected her (I was afraid of my own mother

because she screamed at me and hit me, but nada interpreted my fear of her as

" rejection " and " hate " . Can you say " projection " , boys and girls?) so nada said

she was happy to discover that she was pregnant again so that " would have a

second chance to be loved. "

So, having literally been rejected by my nada and pushed aside when the new baby

arrived, I think I went mental. I went from being homicidal toward my younger

sib to reluctantly tolerant of her existence, but wanted nothing to do with her

until after we were both adults.

So in my book, my little Sister is a living saint for not hating me. She has

every right to. I am blessed that throughout our troubled growing up years and

early adulthood she continued to want us to be friends. I am so grateful that I

was able to overcome my childhood insanity (complete enmeshment with nada) and

became able to appreciate the gift of my Sister's presence in my life; we are

truly sisters now, and friends.

We were both very tentative at first RE discussing our mutual history, neither

of us talked about our nada much at all and neither Sister nor I were sure that

the other had the same memories and similar experiences and damage from it, but

as Sister and I gradually became closer and more trusting with each other, we

shared more and more with each other and we found that our experiences with our

mother's behaviors were indeed virtually identical.

So I feel much sympathy for the only-KOs out there; I hope you find someone out

there in your background who can help you validate your memories so you won't be

plagued with the unsettling " is it me? " question.

But your current or more recent past is totally validate-able by your own self,

if you keep a blog or diary of current nada events, AND I also suggest a " retro

diary " : write down your memories. It really, really does help you anchor your

perceptions in reality to write down what you've experienced as soon as you can.

It also helps you refrain from subjecting yourself to more abuse, because you

can look back through your diary and see the pattern of the abnormal behaviors

standing out in relief.

-Annie

> > >

> > > First off, this one really offended me!

> > >

> > > A few days ago during a telephone conversation with my nada, I was

> > half-listening to her talk at great length about friends and events I have

> > no familiarity with...when I caught her mentioning a story to the effect of

> > the following: A friend of hers evidently mentioned her daughter exhibiting

> > familiar symptoms of depression, which all-in-all my nada has effectively

> > caused and in part maintained since I was 12 or 13 years old. Now she says

> > that she advised her friend to get her daughter help as soon as she could

> > (which I commended in sincerity) right before blurting, " You know, if I

> > could've gotten Elle (me) the help she needed earlier, who knows what a

> > difference that would've made. "

> > >

> > > To some, this may sound like a passing remark which bears little or no

> > weight. But to me, this only reflects her absolute ignorance about her part

> > in my sickness, NOT TO MENTION (and this is the worst part for me) her

> > hatred of my psychologist, whom she attempted to separate me from around the

> > time she attempted to separate me from my best friend and greatest source of

> > non-professional support. As I first attended therapy for GAD, though it

> > quickly became obvious I was primarily suffering from major depression, my

> > nada actually tried to dissuade me from believing the things my therapist

> > was telling me in an effort to end my codependency and suicidal

> > thoughts--both stemming from, of course, an emotionally

> > abusive/manipulative, BPD parent. She discouraged me from maintaining

> > therapy and again later from taking anti-depressants, the things which, in

> > the end, enabled me to overcome my suicidal impulses and become strong

> > enough to confront my illness before it consumed me. During the first few

> > years of therapy, she served as nothing to me but a deliberate obstacle to

> > my well-being.

> > >

> > > So, for her to say calmly and casually, " If -I- would have known, I would

> > have given her the help she needed sooner than I did, " is to me repuslive,

> > ignorant, and one more testament to BPD inability to accept blame, not to

> > mention the power of their denial. Looking back on the screaming matches in

> > which I forthrightly told her that she was the root cause of my suicidal

> > behaviors, she can only remember that -she- gave me help, and if only she

> > had noticed sooner...!

> > >

> > > Hopefully someone else can understand my frustration and relate their

> > story as well. Thank you for listening, everyone,

> > >

> > > Elle

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Truly, when its one person's word against another's with no hard evidence to

back you up, then, how do you know who is right? Its he said/she said. The

only way I am comfortable that my version of reality is pretty solid and my

memories are pretty accurate is that I have my younger Sister as my reality

check, as I am for her.

Sister and I were not friends as children, which is totally my fault as the

older sib. I truly believe that if it is possible for a 4 year old child to be

technically insane, then, I was freaking insane. I was convinced that my baby

sister was my replacement and I wanted her dead. Sibling rivalry of biblical

proportions.

Only a few years ago, one day my nada casually shared with me that she (nada)

had " given up on having a normal, loving mother-daughter relationship " with me

by the time I was 3 years old (!!) Nada went on to say that she'd been

convinced that I hated her and rejected her (I was afraid of my own mother

because she screamed at me and hit me, but nada interpreted my fear of her as

" rejection " and " hate " . Can you say " projection " , boys and girls?) so nada said

she was happy to discover that she was pregnant again so that " would have a

second chance to be loved. "

So, having literally been rejected by my nada and pushed aside when the new baby

arrived, I think I went mental. I went from being homicidal toward my younger

sib to reluctantly tolerant of her existence, but wanted nothing to do with her

until after we were both adults.

So in my book, my little Sister is a living saint for not hating me. She has

every right to. I am blessed that throughout our troubled growing up years and

early adulthood she continued to want us to be friends. I am so grateful that I

was able to overcome my childhood insanity (complete enmeshment with nada) and

became able to appreciate the gift of my Sister's presence in my life; we are

truly sisters now, and friends.

We were both very tentative at first RE discussing our mutual history, neither

of us talked about our nada much at all and neither Sister nor I were sure that

the other had the same memories and similar experiences and damage from it, but

as Sister and I gradually became closer and more trusting with each other, we

shared more and more with each other and we found that our experiences with our

mother's behaviors were indeed virtually identical.

So I feel much sympathy for the only-KOs out there; I hope you find someone out

there in your background who can help you validate your memories so you won't be

plagued with the unsettling " is it me? " question.

But your current or more recent past is totally validate-able by your own self,

if you keep a blog or diary of current nada events, AND I also suggest a " retro

diary " : write down your memories. It really, really does help you anchor your

perceptions in reality to write down what you've experienced as soon as you can.

It also helps you refrain from subjecting yourself to more abuse, because you

can look back through your diary and see the pattern of the abnormal behaviors

standing out in relief.

-Annie

> > >

> > > First off, this one really offended me!

> > >

> > > A few days ago during a telephone conversation with my nada, I was

> > half-listening to her talk at great length about friends and events I have

> > no familiarity with...when I caught her mentioning a story to the effect of

> > the following: A friend of hers evidently mentioned her daughter exhibiting

> > familiar symptoms of depression, which all-in-all my nada has effectively

> > caused and in part maintained since I was 12 or 13 years old. Now she says

> > that she advised her friend to get her daughter help as soon as she could

> > (which I commended in sincerity) right before blurting, " You know, if I

> > could've gotten Elle (me) the help she needed earlier, who knows what a

> > difference that would've made. "

> > >

> > > To some, this may sound like a passing remark which bears little or no

> > weight. But to me, this only reflects her absolute ignorance about her part

> > in my sickness, NOT TO MENTION (and this is the worst part for me) her

> > hatred of my psychologist, whom she attempted to separate me from around the

> > time she attempted to separate me from my best friend and greatest source of

> > non-professional support. As I first attended therapy for GAD, though it

> > quickly became obvious I was primarily suffering from major depression, my

> > nada actually tried to dissuade me from believing the things my therapist

> > was telling me in an effort to end my codependency and suicidal

> > thoughts--both stemming from, of course, an emotionally

> > abusive/manipulative, BPD parent. She discouraged me from maintaining

> > therapy and again later from taking anti-depressants, the things which, in

> > the end, enabled me to overcome my suicidal impulses and become strong

> > enough to confront my illness before it consumed me. During the first few

> > years of therapy, she served as nothing to me but a deliberate obstacle to

> > my well-being.

> > >

> > > So, for her to say calmly and casually, " If -I- would have known, I would

> > have given her the help she needed sooner than I did, " is to me repuslive,

> > ignorant, and one more testament to BPD inability to accept blame, not to

> > mention the power of their denial. Looking back on the screaming matches in

> > which I forthrightly told her that she was the root cause of my suicidal

> > behaviors, she can only remember that -she- gave me help, and if only she

> > had noticed sooner...!

> > >

> > > Hopefully someone else can understand my frustration and relate their

> > story as well. Thank you for listening, everyone,

> > >

> > > Elle

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Truly, when its one person's word against another's with no hard evidence to

back you up, then, how do you know who is right? Its he said/she said. The

only way I am comfortable that my version of reality is pretty solid and my

memories are pretty accurate is that I have my younger Sister as my reality

check, as I am for her.

Sister and I were not friends as children, which is totally my fault as the

older sib. I truly believe that if it is possible for a 4 year old child to be

technically insane, then, I was freaking insane. I was convinced that my baby

sister was my replacement and I wanted her dead. Sibling rivalry of biblical

proportions.

Only a few years ago, one day my nada casually shared with me that she (nada)

had " given up on having a normal, loving mother-daughter relationship " with me

by the time I was 3 years old (!!) Nada went on to say that she'd been

convinced that I hated her and rejected her (I was afraid of my own mother

because she screamed at me and hit me, but nada interpreted my fear of her as

" rejection " and " hate " . Can you say " projection " , boys and girls?) so nada said

she was happy to discover that she was pregnant again so that " would have a

second chance to be loved. "

So, having literally been rejected by my nada and pushed aside when the new baby

arrived, I think I went mental. I went from being homicidal toward my younger

sib to reluctantly tolerant of her existence, but wanted nothing to do with her

until after we were both adults.

So in my book, my little Sister is a living saint for not hating me. She has

every right to. I am blessed that throughout our troubled growing up years and

early adulthood she continued to want us to be friends. I am so grateful that I

was able to overcome my childhood insanity (complete enmeshment with nada) and

became able to appreciate the gift of my Sister's presence in my life; we are

truly sisters now, and friends.

We were both very tentative at first RE discussing our mutual history, neither

of us talked about our nada much at all and neither Sister nor I were sure that

the other had the same memories and similar experiences and damage from it, but

as Sister and I gradually became closer and more trusting with each other, we

shared more and more with each other and we found that our experiences with our

mother's behaviors were indeed virtually identical.

So I feel much sympathy for the only-KOs out there; I hope you find someone out

there in your background who can help you validate your memories so you won't be

plagued with the unsettling " is it me? " question.

But your current or more recent past is totally validate-able by your own self,

if you keep a blog or diary of current nada events, AND I also suggest a " retro

diary " : write down your memories. It really, really does help you anchor your

perceptions in reality to write down what you've experienced as soon as you can.

It also helps you refrain from subjecting yourself to more abuse, because you

can look back through your diary and see the pattern of the abnormal behaviors

standing out in relief.

-Annie

> > >

> > > First off, this one really offended me!

> > >

> > > A few days ago during a telephone conversation with my nada, I was

> > half-listening to her talk at great length about friends and events I have

> > no familiarity with...when I caught her mentioning a story to the effect of

> > the following: A friend of hers evidently mentioned her daughter exhibiting

> > familiar symptoms of depression, which all-in-all my nada has effectively

> > caused and in part maintained since I was 12 or 13 years old. Now she says

> > that she advised her friend to get her daughter help as soon as she could

> > (which I commended in sincerity) right before blurting, " You know, if I

> > could've gotten Elle (me) the help she needed earlier, who knows what a

> > difference that would've made. "

> > >

> > > To some, this may sound like a passing remark which bears little or no

> > weight. But to me, this only reflects her absolute ignorance about her part

> > in my sickness, NOT TO MENTION (and this is the worst part for me) her

> > hatred of my psychologist, whom she attempted to separate me from around the

> > time she attempted to separate me from my best friend and greatest source of

> > non-professional support. As I first attended therapy for GAD, though it

> > quickly became obvious I was primarily suffering from major depression, my

> > nada actually tried to dissuade me from believing the things my therapist

> > was telling me in an effort to end my codependency and suicidal

> > thoughts--both stemming from, of course, an emotionally

> > abusive/manipulative, BPD parent. She discouraged me from maintaining

> > therapy and again later from taking anti-depressants, the things which, in

> > the end, enabled me to overcome my suicidal impulses and become strong

> > enough to confront my illness before it consumed me. During the first few

> > years of therapy, she served as nothing to me but a deliberate obstacle to

> > my well-being.

> > >

> > > So, for her to say calmly and casually, " If -I- would have known, I would

> > have given her the help she needed sooner than I did, " is to me repuslive,

> > ignorant, and one more testament to BPD inability to accept blame, not to

> > mention the power of their denial. Looking back on the screaming matches in

> > which I forthrightly told her that she was the root cause of my suicidal

> > behaviors, she can only remember that -she- gave me help, and if only she

> > had noticed sooner...!

> > >

> > > Hopefully someone else can understand my frustration and relate their

> > story as well. Thank you for listening, everyone,

> > >

> > > Elle

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow Annie, thats so cool to have a sis who believes you. I'm afraid I'm in

the opposite boat. My bada hated me just like you hated sis. But he didn't

respond to my post college efforts to reach out, then I realized he was a

total bastard to me and that I spent the 16 years we lived together afraid

he would kill me with his bare hands. I haven't spoken to him since. But I

can tell you, from the fact that his new wife has sent me hate mail, that he

sides with nada.

Really, all that I have is my boyfriend and therapist's opinions that my

family was psycho, and that I'm not. Other than that, I'm on my own. It's

one of the hardest issues for me.

On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 3:51 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

>

>

> Truly, when its one person's word against another's with no hard evidence

> to back you up, then, how do you know who is right? Its he said/she said.

> The only way I am comfortable that my version of reality is pretty solid and

> my memories are pretty accurate is that I have my younger Sister as my

> reality check, as I am for her.

>

> Sister and I were not friends as children, which is totally my fault as the

> older sib. I truly believe that if it is possible for a 4 year old child to

> be technically insane, then, I was freaking insane. I was convinced that my

> baby sister was my replacement and I wanted her dead. Sibling rivalry of

> biblical proportions.

>

> Only a few years ago, one day my nada casually shared with me that she

> (nada) had " given up on having a normal, loving mother-daughter

> relationship " with me by the time I was 3 years old (!!) Nada went on to say

> that she'd been convinced that I hated her and rejected her (I was afraid of

> my own mother because she screamed at me and hit me, but nada interpreted my

> fear of her as " rejection " and " hate " . Can you say " projection " , boys and

> girls?) so nada said she was happy to discover that she was pregnant again

> so that " would have a second chance to be loved. "

>

> So, having literally been rejected by my nada and pushed aside when the new

> baby arrived, I think I went mental. I went from being homicidal toward my

> younger sib to reluctantly tolerant of her existence, but wanted nothing to

> do with her until after we were both adults.

>

> So in my book, my little Sister is a living saint for not hating me. She

> has every right to. I am blessed that throughout our troubled growing up

> years and early adulthood she continued to want us to be friends. I am so

> grateful that I was able to overcome my childhood insanity (complete

> enmeshment with nada) and became able to appreciate the gift of my Sister's

> presence in my life; we are truly sisters now, and friends.

>

> We were both very tentative at first RE discussing our mutual history,

> neither of us talked about our nada much at all and neither Sister nor I

> were sure that the other had the same memories and similar experiences and

> damage from it, but as Sister and I gradually became closer and more

> trusting with each other, we shared more and more with each other and we

> found that our experiences with our mother's behaviors were indeed virtually

> identical.

>

> So I feel much sympathy for the only-KOs out there; I hope you find someone

> out there in your background who can help you validate your memories so you

> won't be plagued with the unsettling " is it me? " question.

>

> But your current or more recent past is totally validate-able by your own

> self, if you keep a blog or diary of current nada events, AND I also suggest

> a " retro diary " : write down your memories. It really, really does help you

> anchor your perceptions in reality to write down what you've experienced as

> soon as you can. It also helps you refrain from subjecting yourself to more

> abuse, because you can look back through your diary and see the pattern of

> the abnormal behaviors standing out in relief.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > First off, this one really offended me!

> > > >

> > > > A few days ago during a telephone conversation with my nada, I was

> > > half-listening to her talk at great length about friends and events I

> have

> > > no familiarity with...when I caught her mentioning a story to the

> effect of

> > > the following: A friend of hers evidently mentioned her daughter

> exhibiting

> > > familiar symptoms of depression, which all-in-all my nada has

> effectively

> > > caused and in part maintained since I was 12 or 13 years old. Now she

> says

> > > that she advised her friend to get her daughter help as soon as she

> could

> > > (which I commended in sincerity) right before blurting, " You know, if I

> > > could've gotten Elle (me) the help she needed earlier, who knows what a

> > > difference that would've made. "

> > > >

> > > > To some, this may sound like a passing remark which bears little or

> no

> > > weight. But to me, this only reflects her absolute ignorance about her

> part

> > > in my sickness, NOT TO MENTION (and this is the worst part for me) her

> > > hatred of my psychologist, whom she attempted to separate me from

> around the

> > > time she attempted to separate me from my best friend and greatest

> source of

> > > non-professional support. As I first attended therapy for GAD, though

> it

> > > quickly became obvious I was primarily suffering from major depression,

> my

> > > nada actually tried to dissuade me from believing the things my

> therapist

> > > was telling me in an effort to end my codependency and suicidal

> > > thoughts--both stemming from, of course, an emotionally

> > > abusive/manipulative, BPD parent. She discouraged me from maintaining

> > > therapy and again later from taking anti-depressants, the things which,

> in

> > > the end, enabled me to overcome my suicidal impulses and become strong

> > > enough to confront my illness before it consumed me. During the first

> few

> > > years of therapy, she served as nothing to me but a deliberate obstacle

> to

> > > my well-being.

> > > >

> > > > So, for her to say calmly and casually, " If -I- would have known, I

> would

> > > have given her the help she needed sooner than I did, " is to me

> repuslive,

> > > ignorant, and one more testament to BPD inability to accept blame, not

> to

> > > mention the power of their denial. Looking back on the screaming

> matches in

> > > which I forthrightly told her that she was the root cause of my

> suicidal

> > > behaviors, she can only remember that -she- gave me help, and if only

> she

> > > had noticed sooner...!

> > > >

> > > > Hopefully someone else can understand my frustration and relate their

> > > story as well. Thank you for listening, everyone,

> > > >

> > > > Elle

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Since I no longer have contact with my stepmom, she hasn't done that to me for a

while.  I do remember when I was in high school.  I wanted to try out for the

flag team in marching band.  Those are things that kids have to ask their

parents for permission to do, so I asked.  When I made the team, she told me

that if she hadn't encouraged me, then I wouldn't have tried out.  I was the

one

who said I wanted to try out...she never knew anything about it until I said

something.  I am glad that I don't have to deal with this, but I have family

thinking I am the bad guy in all of this...no one questions.

Janet

 

 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own

understanding.

 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

 It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.

Proverbs 3:5-8

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Sun, January 23, 2011 1:38:41 PM

Subject: Nada casually taking credit for my well-being.

 

First off, this one really offended me!

A few days ago during a telephone conversation with my nada, I was

half-listening to her talk at great length about friends and events I have no

familiarity with...when I caught her mentioning a story to the effect of the

following: A friend of hers evidently mentioned her daughter exhibiting familiar

symptoms of depression, which all-in-all my nada has effectively caused and in

part maintained since I was 12 or 13 years old. Now she says that she advised

her friend to get her daughter help as soon as she could (which I commended in

sincerity) right before blurting, " You know, if I could've gotten Elle (me) the

help she needed earlier, who knows what a difference that would've made. "

To some, this may sound like a passing remark which bears little or no weight.

But to me, this only reflects her absolute ignorance about her part in my

sickness, NOT TO MENTION (and this is the worst part for me) her hatred of my

psychologist, whom she attempted to separate me from around the time she

attempted to separate me from my best friend and greatest source of

non-professional support. As I first attended therapy for GAD, though it quickly

became obvious I was primarily suffering from major depression, my nada actually

tried to dissuade me from believing the things my therapist was telling me in an

effort to end my codependency and suicidal thoughts--both stemming from, of

course, an emotionally abusive/manipulative, BPD parent. She discouraged me from

maintaining therapy and again later from taking anti-depressants, the things

which, in the end, enabled me to overcome my suicidal impulses and become strong

enough to confront my illness before it consumed me. During the first few years

of therapy, she served as nothing to me but a deliberate obstacle to my

well-being.

So, for her to say calmly and casually, " If -I- would have known, I would have

given her the help she needed sooner than I did, " is to me repuslive, ignorant,

and one more testament to BPD inability to accept blame, not to mention the

power of their denial. Looking back on the screaming matches in which I

forthrightly told her that she was the root cause of my suicidal behaviors, she

can only remember that -she- gave me help, and if only she had noticed

sooner...!

Hopefully someone else can understand my frustration and relate their story as

well. Thank you for listening, everyone,

Elle

[Guest guest]

You're so not alone GS. I know how you feel... I really only have my T, my

fiance & sometimes my dad. I don't always take what my dad says for full

value though. For a long time he was a fada. Guess I don't want to get

burned again by him... he's the only parent I have left.

Also, if she's sending you hate mail, why not take it to the police? I

guess that would depend if it's threatening or not. I don't know.

Mia

[Guest guest]

My nada used to say that she took credit for my musical talent because she

" would put headphones on my belly when I was pregnant with you & play

classical music " .

Yeah, nada... that was it! That made me a great musician. It wasn't at all

through my own hard work, persistence & love of music that I was first chair

on 2 instruments & had scholarships to college if I had wanted to major in

music. It was all you, nada. Thanks! </sarcasm>

Mia

>

>

> Since I no longer have contact with my stepmom, she hasn't done that to me

> for a

> while. I do remember when I was in high school. I wanted to try out for

> the

> flag team in marching band. Those are things that kids have to ask their

> parents for permission to do, so I asked. When I made the team, she told

> me

> that if she hadn't encouraged me, then I wouldn't have tried out. I was

> the one

> who said I wanted to try out...she never knew anything about it until I

> said

> something. I am glad that I don't have to deal with this, but I have

> family

> thinking I am the bad guy in all of this...no one questions.

> Janet

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes ma'am Mia, I got the cops involved and I haven't heard from the FOO

since.

>

>

> My nada used to say that she took credit for my musical talent because she

> " would put headphones on my belly when I was pregnant with you & play

> classical music " .

>

> Yeah, nada... that was it! That made me a great musician. It wasn't at all

> through my own hard work, persistence & love of music that I was first

> chair

> on 2 instruments & had scholarships to college if I had wanted to major in

> music. It was all you, nada. Thanks! </sarcasm>

>

> Mia

>

>

> On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Janet

<dreamytouches@...<dreamytouches%40yahoo.com>>

> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Since I no longer have contact with my stepmom, she hasn't done that to

> me

> > for a

> > while. I do remember when I was in high school. I wanted to try out for

> > the

> > flag team in marching band. Those are things that kids have to ask their

> > parents for permission to do, so I asked. When I made the team, she told

> > me

> > that if she hadn't encouraged me, then I wouldn't have tried out. I was

> > the one

> > who said I wanted to try out...she never knew anything about it until I

> > said

> > something. I am glad that I don't have to deal with this, but I have

> > family

> > thinking I am the bad guy in all of this...no one questions.

> > Janet

> >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes ma'am Mia, I got the cops involved and I haven't heard from the FOO

since.

>

>

> My nada used to say that she took credit for my musical talent because she

> " would put headphones on my belly when I was pregnant with you & play

> classical music " .

>

> Yeah, nada... that was it! That made me a great musician. It wasn't at all

> through my own hard work, persistence & love of music that I was first

> chair

> on 2 instruments & had scholarships to college if I had wanted to major in

> music. It was all you, nada. Thanks! </sarcasm>

>

> Mia

>

>

> On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Janet

<dreamytouches@...<dreamytouches%40yahoo.com>>

> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Since I no longer have contact with my stepmom, she hasn't done that to

> me

> > for a

> > while. I do remember when I was in high school. I wanted to try out for

> > the

> > flag team in marching band. Those are things that kids have to ask their

> > parents for permission to do, so I asked. When I made the team, she told

> > me

> > that if she hadn't encouraged me, then I wouldn't have tried out. I was

> > the one

> > who said I wanted to try out...she never knew anything about it until I

> > said

> > something. I am glad that I don't have to deal with this, but I have

> > family

> > thinking I am the bad guy in all of this...no one questions.

> > Janet

> >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes ma'am Mia, I got the cops involved and I haven't heard from the FOO

since.

>

>

> My nada used to say that she took credit for my musical talent because she

> " would put headphones on my belly when I was pregnant with you & play

> classical music " .

>

> Yeah, nada... that was it! That made me a great musician. It wasn't at all

> through my own hard work, persistence & love of music that I was first

> chair

> on 2 instruments & had scholarships to college if I had wanted to major in

> music. It was all you, nada. Thanks! </sarcasm>

>

> Mia

>

>

> On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Janet

<dreamytouches@...<dreamytouches%40yahoo.com>>

> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Since I no longer have contact with my stepmom, she hasn't done that to

> me

> > for a

> > while. I do remember when I was in high school. I wanted to try out for

> > the

> > flag team in marching band. Those are things that kids have to ask their

> > parents for permission to do, so I asked. When I made the team, she told

> > me

> > that if she hadn't encouraged me, then I wouldn't have tried out. I was

> > the one

> > who said I wanted to try out...she never knew anything about it until I

> > said

> > something. I am glad that I don't have to deal with this, but I have

> > family

> > thinking I am the bad guy in all of this...no one questions.

> > Janet

> >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Let me preface by saying: It's uncanny how attuned this group can be to a

specific need (at least for me, each time) on any given day, how amazingly

supportive this community is, how it seems to be the only place where you can

find exactly the type of support you need day or night.

I have been extremely busy in the last few months (being a full-time medical

student and a full-time mom, since my husband went back to work in November, and

by necessity lives in a different state a plane ride away, has really limited my

ability to visit this group - despite my great need for all that it offers), but

today I just couldn't walk this road alone any more, so I logged in intending to

post exactly about this topic!

My mother takes credit for EVERYthing positive about me and in me. It is amazing

how she has convinced herself that she is the mother of the century, if not the

millenium, and uses this as the platform from which she launches every

accusation and attack on me. Sometimes she can get so far inside my head that I

almost believe everything she says - and it makes me feel crazy, but I have been

getting much better at managing that and keeping my boundaries over the past few

years (once I realized that her problem had a NAME!).

The wild claims she makes used to anger and/or frustrate me, which is something

I have been working on overcoming in the last couple of years. Now I try to keep

things in perspective, not to allow myself to swing too far in one direction or

the other. I try not to deny the good things she has given me (a love of books

and learning, compassion towards animals, a love of science, excellent manners

(I could dine with the Queen of England and probably be more proper than the

Queen herself ), a love of art), while also not denying the damage she has

done to me (the wild mood swings, the emotional instability, the psychologically

and emotionally abusive rants, the selfishness, the aggressiveness, the lack of

empathy, etc.).

I am an only child, and she needs me, she threatens to stop contact with me

(sometimes, more often than I'd like to admit, I hope and pray that she will do

it!) and yet she keeps trying to carve a bigger and bigger place in my life for

herself (which I completely understand, given her advancing age and her need to

have love, attention, care, etc.). So my husband's departure (she hates him with

an unparalleled passion), has given her the opening she wanted so badly. She has

invited herself to stay with me until May to " help " me. She repeatedly asked me

if I wanted her to come and help, and I repeatedly told her that I have my life

under control and do not need help. I tried to be sensitive, and I did not want

to reject her flatly, so I did not tell her NOT to come (which is what I wanted

to do), partly because I feel really sad that she has to live with this terrible

affliction, partly because I do love her as the only mother I know and the only

mother I'll ever have for the good things that she does have (her great

intelligence, her creativity, her ability to have survived a difficult

childhood/life made even more difficult by her illness - I really do feel a lot

of sympathy for people who live with this terrible disease, and the more

medicine I learn, the more I realize how sad this really is). So she arrived in

the middle of last week and I am ready to pull my hair out.

Tonight she went into a tirade about how she is only here " so that [my] life

doesn't get flushed down the toilet, so that [my] medical education/future

career doesn't crash and burn... " blah-blah-blah... she is here " to save " me,

because everything I have ever achieved in my life is " thanks to " her and solely

attributable to her, etc. She will " bring up " my " level " again because

" EVERYTHING am is entirely " her doing and when she is not around I plummet

to the level of " worthless piece of shit " (which is what she has now started

calling my husband and feels very clever/smug and pleased with herself for

coming up with a " perfect nickname " for him " WPS " ).

I am trying to work up the courage and the firmness to tell her to leave because

honestly the dishes she did today and the load of laundry she folded would have

taken me much less time and been much less draining than her tirades and abusive

words.

I run a well-organized household, I have happy, well-adjusted, high-achieving,

fun-loving, creative kids who are emotionally undamaged (thank goodness!), and I

manage my affairs quite well. It's ironic that she left me to fend for myself

pretty much from age 8-9 onward... as long as she could retain control (e.g.,

she sent me to live with my grandparents for a year and a half between ages 8

and 10, then I lived with my dad for 2 years and only came to her house for a

day and a half on the weekends, and most of the time when she'd get home from

work she would go spend the evenings/weekends with her girlfriends, then after

forcing me to stay in our hometown for college so that I would not be

" abandoning " her and " taking [my] father's side " (when I had the opportunity to

go a university that was ranked in the top 5 in the nation), she up and moved to

a different state a month before classes began, but then she would call and

harass me every day about why I wasn't home by 9 PM), but now she suddenly

thinks that I can't make it on my own as a grown woman in my mid-late thirties.

I know the game she's playing now, she pretty much revealed her cards today -

she is here so that she can then try to hold this over my head and present to

the world that she " gave up everything and ran " to my " rescue " so that I could

get through medical school and become a doctor. All the credit should go to

her... never mind the fact that she has been one of the (if not THE) biggest

reasons why it has taken me so long to finally get to my dream of becoming a

doctor (something I knew I wanted to do since before elementary school and

something I was very capable of doing much earlier in my life, had there not

been so many crap storms in life, courtesy of my parents), and never mind the

fact that I can manage quite well on my own (thank you very much!), and her

presence here is VERY disruptive to my life.

Uggghhhh... I am so frustrated. How do I get her to leave without starting

another crap storm, because I don't have the time and energy to deal with a crap

storm right now - it's a VERY rigorous semester and I have my first licensing

exam coming up this summer, so no breaks, no time for distraction.

Thanks for letting me vent... hugs to this whole group!

Arianna

>

> First off, this one really offended me!

>

> A few days ago during a telephone conversation with my nada, I was

half-listening to her talk at great length about friends and events I have no

familiarity with...when I caught her mentioning a story to the effect of the

following: A friend of hers evidently mentioned her daughter exhibiting familiar

symptoms of depression, which all-in-all my nada has effectively caused and in

part maintained since I was 12 or 13 years old. Now she says that she advised

her friend to get her daughter help as soon as she could (which I commended in

sincerity) right before blurting, " You know, if I could've gotten Elle (me) the

help she needed earlier, who knows what a difference that would've made. "

>

> To some, this may sound like a passing remark which bears little or no weight.

But to me, this only reflects her absolute ignorance about her part in my

sickness, NOT TO MENTION (and this is the worst part for me) her hatred of my

psychologist, whom she attempted to separate me from around the time she

attempted to separate me from my best friend and greatest source of

non-professional support. As I first attended therapy for GAD, though it quickly

became obvious I was primarily suffering from major depression, my nada actually

tried to dissuade me from believing the things my therapist was telling me in an

effort to end my codependency and suicidal thoughts--both stemming from, of

course, an emotionally abusive/manipulative, BPD parent. She discouraged me from

maintaining therapy and again later from taking anti-depressants, the things

which, in the end, enabled me to overcome my suicidal impulses and become strong

enough to confront my illness before it consumed me. During the first few years

of therapy, she served as nothing to me but a deliberate obstacle to my

well-being.

>

> So, for her to say calmly and casually, " If -I- would have known, I would have

given her the help she needed sooner than I did, " is to me repuslive, ignorant,

and one more testament to BPD inability to accept blame, not to mention the

power of their denial. Looking back on the screaming matches in which I

forthrightly told her that she was the root cause of my suicidal behaviors, she

can only remember that -she- gave me help, and if only she had noticed

sooner...!

>

> Hopefully someone else can understand my frustration and relate their story as

well. Thank you for listening, everyone,

>

> Elle

>

[Guest guest]

Let me preface by saying: It's uncanny how attuned this group can be to a

specific need (at least for me, each time) on any given day, how amazingly

supportive this community is, how it seems to be the only place where you can

find exactly the type of support you need day or night.

I have been extremely busy in the last few months (being a full-time medical

student and a full-time mom, since my husband went back to work in November, and

by necessity lives in a different state a plane ride away, has really limited my

ability to visit this group - despite my great need for all that it offers), but

today I just couldn't walk this road alone any more, so I logged in intending to

post exactly about this topic!

My mother takes credit for EVERYthing positive about me and in me. It is amazing

how she has convinced herself that she is the mother of the century, if not the

millenium, and uses this as the platform from which she launches every

accusation and attack on me. Sometimes she can get so far inside my head that I

almost believe everything she says - and it makes me feel crazy, but I have been

getting much better at managing that and keeping my boundaries over the past few

years (once I realized that her problem had a NAME!).

The wild claims she makes used to anger and/or frustrate me, which is something

I have been working on overcoming in the last couple of years. Now I try to keep

things in perspective, not to allow myself to swing too far in one direction or

the other. I try not to deny the good things she has given me (a love of books

and learning, compassion towards animals, a love of science, excellent manners

(I could dine with the Queen of England and probably be more proper than the

Queen herself ), a love of art), while also not denying the damage she has

done to me (the wild mood swings, the emotional instability, the psychologically

and emotionally abusive rants, the selfishness, the aggressiveness, the lack of

empathy, etc.).

I am an only child, and she needs me, she threatens to stop contact with me

(sometimes, more often than I'd like to admit, I hope and pray that she will do

it!) and yet she keeps trying to carve a bigger and bigger place in my life for

herself (which I completely understand, given her advancing age and her need to

have love, attention, care, etc.). So my husband's departure (she hates him with

an unparalleled passion), has given her the opening she wanted so badly. She has

invited herself to stay with me until May to " help " me. She repeatedly asked me

if I wanted her to come and help, and I repeatedly told her that I have my life

under control and do not need help. I tried to be sensitive, and I did not want

to reject her flatly, so I did not tell her NOT to come (which is what I wanted

to do), partly because I feel really sad that she has to live with this terrible

affliction, partly because I do love her as the only mother I know and the only

mother I'll ever have for the good things that she does have (her great

intelligence, her creativity, her ability to have survived a difficult

childhood/life made even more difficult by her illness - I really do feel a lot

of sympathy for people who live with this terrible disease, and the more

medicine I learn, the more I realize how sad this really is). So she arrived in

the middle of last week and I am ready to pull my hair out.

Tonight she went into a tirade about how she is only here " so that [my] life

doesn't get flushed down the toilet, so that [my] medical education/future

career doesn't crash and burn... " blah-blah-blah... she is here " to save " me,

because everything I have ever achieved in my life is " thanks to " her and solely

attributable to her, etc. She will " bring up " my " level " again because

" EVERYTHING am is entirely " her doing and when she is not around I plummet

to the level of " worthless piece of shit " (which is what she has now started

calling my husband and feels very clever/smug and pleased with herself for

coming up with a " perfect nickname " for him " WPS " ).

I am trying to work up the courage and the firmness to tell her to leave because

honestly the dishes she did today and the load of laundry she folded would have

taken me much less time and been much less draining than her tirades and abusive

words.

I run a well-organized household, I have happy, well-adjusted, high-achieving,

fun-loving, creative kids who are emotionally undamaged (thank goodness!), and I

manage my affairs quite well. It's ironic that she left me to fend for myself

pretty much from age 8-9 onward... as long as she could retain control (e.g.,

she sent me to live with my grandparents for a year and a half between ages 8

and 10, then I lived with my dad for 2 years and only came to her house for a

day and a half on the weekends, and most of the time when she'd get home from

work she would go spend the evenings/weekends with her girlfriends, then after

forcing me to stay in our hometown for college so that I would not be

" abandoning " her and " taking [my] father's side " (when I had the opportunity to

go a university that was ranked in the top 5 in the nation), she up and moved to

a different state a month before classes began, but then she would call and

harass me every day about why I wasn't home by 9 PM), but now she suddenly

thinks that I can't make it on my own as a grown woman in my mid-late thirties.

I know the game she's playing now, she pretty much revealed her cards today -

she is here so that she can then try to hold this over my head and present to

the world that she " gave up everything and ran " to my " rescue " so that I could

get through medical school and become a doctor. All the credit should go to

her... never mind the fact that she has been one of the (if not THE) biggest

reasons why it has taken me so long to finally get to my dream of becoming a

doctor (something I knew I wanted to do since before elementary school and

something I was very capable of doing much earlier in my life, had there not

been so many crap storms in life, courtesy of my parents), and never mind the

fact that I can manage quite well on my own (thank you very much!), and her

presence here is VERY disruptive to my life.

Uggghhhh... I am so frustrated. How do I get her to leave without starting

another crap storm, because I don't have the time and energy to deal with a crap

storm right now - it's a VERY rigorous semester and I have my first licensing

exam coming up this summer, so no breaks, no time for distraction.

Thanks for letting me vent... hugs to this whole group!

Arianna

>

> First off, this one really offended me!

>

> A few days ago during a telephone conversation with my nada, I was

half-listening to her talk at great length about friends and events I have no

familiarity with...when I caught her mentioning a story to the effect of the

following: A friend of hers evidently mentioned her daughter exhibiting familiar

symptoms of depression, which all-in-all my nada has effectively caused and in

part maintained since I was 12 or 13 years old. Now she says that she advised

her friend to get her daughter help as soon as she could (which I commended in

sincerity) right before blurting, " You know, if I could've gotten Elle (me) the

help she needed earlier, who knows what a difference that would've made. "

>

> To some, this may sound like a passing remark which bears little or no weight.

But to me, this only reflects her absolute ignorance about her part in my

sickness, NOT TO MENTION (and this is the worst part for me) her hatred of my

psychologist, whom she attempted to separate me from around the time she

attempted to separate me from my best friend and greatest source of

non-professional support. As I first attended therapy for GAD, though it quickly

became obvious I was primarily suffering from major depression, my nada actually

tried to dissuade me from believing the things my therapist was telling me in an

effort to end my codependency and suicidal thoughts--both stemming from, of

course, an emotionally abusive/manipulative, BPD parent. She discouraged me from

maintaining therapy and again later from taking anti-depressants, the things

which, in the end, enabled me to overcome my suicidal impulses and become strong

enough to confront my illness before it consumed me. During the first few years

of therapy, she served as nothing to me but a deliberate obstacle to my

well-being.

>

> So, for her to say calmly and casually, " If -I- would have known, I would have

given her the help she needed sooner than I did, " is to me repuslive, ignorant,

and one more testament to BPD inability to accept blame, not to mention the

power of their denial. Looking back on the screaming matches in which I

forthrightly told her that she was the root cause of my suicidal behaviors, she

can only remember that -she- gave me help, and if only she had noticed

sooner...!

>

> Hopefully someone else can understand my frustration and relate their story as

well. Thank you for listening, everyone,

>

> Elle

>

[Guest guest]

Let me preface by saying: It's uncanny how attuned this group can be to a

specific need (at least for me, each time) on any given day, how amazingly

supportive this community is, how it seems to be the only place where you can

find exactly the type of support you need day or night.

I have been extremely busy in the last few months (being a full-time medical

student and a full-time mom, since my husband went back to work in November, and

by necessity lives in a different state a plane ride away, has really limited my

ability to visit this group - despite my great need for all that it offers), but

today I just couldn't walk this road alone any more, so I logged in intending to

post exactly about this topic!

My mother takes credit for EVERYthing positive about me and in me. It is amazing

how she has convinced herself that she is the mother of the century, if not the

millenium, and uses this as the platform from which she launches every

accusation and attack on me. Sometimes she can get so far inside my head that I

almost believe everything she says - and it makes me feel crazy, but I have been

getting much better at managing that and keeping my boundaries over the past few

years (once I realized that her problem had a NAME!).

The wild claims she makes used to anger and/or frustrate me, which is something

I have been working on overcoming in the last couple of years. Now I try to keep

things in perspective, not to allow myself to swing too far in one direction or

the other. I try not to deny the good things she has given me (a love of books

and learning, compassion towards animals, a love of science, excellent manners

(I could dine with the Queen of England and probably be more proper than the

Queen herself ), a love of art), while also not denying the damage she has

done to me (the wild mood swings, the emotional instability, the psychologically

and emotionally abusive rants, the selfishness, the aggressiveness, the lack of

empathy, etc.).

I am an only child, and she needs me, she threatens to stop contact with me

(sometimes, more often than I'd like to admit, I hope and pray that she will do

it!) and yet she keeps trying to carve a bigger and bigger place in my life for

herself (which I completely understand, given her advancing age and her need to

have love, attention, care, etc.). So my husband's departure (she hates him with

an unparalleled passion), has given her the opening she wanted so badly. She has

invited herself to stay with me until May to " help " me. She repeatedly asked me

if I wanted her to come and help, and I repeatedly told her that I have my life

under control and do not need help. I tried to be sensitive, and I did not want

to reject her flatly, so I did not tell her NOT to come (which is what I wanted

to do), partly because I feel really sad that she has to live with this terrible

affliction, partly because I do love her as the only mother I know and the only

mother I'll ever have for the good things that she does have (her great

intelligence, her creativity, her ability to have survived a difficult

childhood/life made even more difficult by her illness - I really do feel a lot

of sympathy for people who live with this terrible disease, and the more

medicine I learn, the more I realize how sad this really is). So she arrived in

the middle of last week and I am ready to pull my hair out.

Tonight she went into a tirade about how she is only here " so that [my] life

doesn't get flushed down the toilet, so that [my] medical education/future

career doesn't crash and burn... " blah-blah-blah... she is here " to save " me,

because everything I have ever achieved in my life is " thanks to " her and solely

attributable to her, etc. She will " bring up " my " level " again because

" EVERYTHING am is entirely " her doing and when she is not around I plummet

to the level of " worthless piece of shit " (which is what she has now started

calling my husband and feels very clever/smug and pleased with herself for

coming up with a " perfect nickname " for him " WPS " ).

I am trying to work up the courage and the firmness to tell her to leave because

honestly the dishes she did today and the load of laundry she folded would have

taken me much less time and been much less draining than her tirades and abusive

words.

I run a well-organized household, I have happy, well-adjusted, high-achieving,

fun-loving, creative kids who are emotionally undamaged (thank goodness!), and I

manage my affairs quite well. It's ironic that she left me to fend for myself

pretty much from age 8-9 onward... as long as she could retain control (e.g.,

she sent me to live with my grandparents for a year and a half between ages 8

and 10, then I lived with my dad for 2 years and only came to her house for a

day and a half on the weekends, and most of the time when she'd get home from

work she would go spend the evenings/weekends with her girlfriends, then after

forcing me to stay in our hometown for college so that I would not be

" abandoning " her and " taking [my] father's side " (when I had the opportunity to

go a university that was ranked in the top 5 in the nation), she up and moved to

a different state a month before classes began, but then she would call and

harass me every day about why I wasn't home by 9 PM), but now she suddenly

thinks that I can't make it on my own as a grown woman in my mid-late thirties.

I know the game she's playing now, she pretty much revealed her cards today -

she is here so that she can then try to hold this over my head and present to

the world that she " gave up everything and ran " to my " rescue " so that I could

get through medical school and become a doctor. All the credit should go to

her... never mind the fact that she has been one of the (if not THE) biggest

reasons why it has taken me so long to finally get to my dream of becoming a

doctor (something I knew I wanted to do since before elementary school and

something I was very capable of doing much earlier in my life, had there not

been so many crap storms in life, courtesy of my parents), and never mind the

fact that I can manage quite well on my own (thank you very much!), and her

presence here is VERY disruptive to my life.

Uggghhhh... I am so frustrated. How do I get her to leave without starting

another crap storm, because I don't have the time and energy to deal with a crap

storm right now - it's a VERY rigorous semester and I have my first licensing

exam coming up this summer, so no breaks, no time for distraction.

Thanks for letting me vent... hugs to this whole group!

Arianna

>

> First off, this one really offended me!

>

> A few days ago during a telephone conversation with my nada, I was

half-listening to her talk at great length about friends and events I have no

familiarity with...when I caught her mentioning a story to the effect of the

following: A friend of hers evidently mentioned her daughter exhibiting familiar

symptoms of depression, which all-in-all my nada has effectively caused and in

part maintained since I was 12 or 13 years old. Now she says that she advised

her friend to get her daughter help as soon as she could (which I commended in

sincerity) right before blurting, " You know, if I could've gotten Elle (me) the

help she needed earlier, who knows what a difference that would've made. "

>

> To some, this may sound like a passing remark which bears little or no weight.

But to me, this only reflects her absolute ignorance about her part in my

sickness, NOT TO MENTION (and this is the worst part for me) her hatred of my

psychologist, whom she attempted to separate me from around the time she

attempted to separate me from my best friend and greatest source of

non-professional support. As I first attended therapy for GAD, though it quickly

became obvious I was primarily suffering from major depression, my nada actually

tried to dissuade me from believing the things my therapist was telling me in an

effort to end my codependency and suicidal thoughts--both stemming from, of

course, an emotionally abusive/manipulative, BPD parent. She discouraged me from

maintaining therapy and again later from taking anti-depressants, the things

which, in the end, enabled me to overcome my suicidal impulses and become strong

enough to confront my illness before it consumed me. During the first few years

of therapy, she served as nothing to me but a deliberate obstacle to my

well-being.

>

> So, for her to say calmly and casually, " If -I- would have known, I would have

given her the help she needed sooner than I did, " is to me repuslive, ignorant,

and one more testament to BPD inability to accept blame, not to mention the

power of their denial. Looking back on the screaming matches in which I

forthrightly told her that she was the root cause of my suicidal behaviors, she

can only remember that -she- gave me help, and if only she had noticed

sooner...!

>

> Hopefully someone else can understand my frustration and relate their story as

well. Thank you for listening, everyone,

>

> Elle

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Annie,

You perfectly (I really mean PERFECTLY!) verbalized my experience with my mother

- the revisionism is maddening beyond words. Her ability to spin things and to

believe her own spin is breathtaking (not in a good way).

Arianna

>

> Yes! I can relate to your frustration. My nada's tendency to re-write

history (so that nada is always in the favorable position: nada the rescuer or

nada the victim) is absolutely crazy-making.

>

> So for me, it boils down to this: I cannot have a relationship with someone

whose version of moment-to-moment real-time reality (and history) is so nearly

diametrically opposed to mine.

>

> Its too upsetting, energy-draining and health-draining for me to be in a

position of continually having to defend what I know to be the truth and in most

cases I can objectively demonstrate to be the truth.

>

> Its sad, but this clash of realities is a major roadblock for me resuming

contact with my nada.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Annie,

You perfectly (I really mean PERFECTLY!) verbalized my experience with my mother

- the revisionism is maddening beyond words. Her ability to spin things and to

believe her own spin is breathtaking (not in a good way).

Arianna

>

> Yes! I can relate to your frustration. My nada's tendency to re-write

history (so that nada is always in the favorable position: nada the rescuer or

nada the victim) is absolutely crazy-making.

>

> So for me, it boils down to this: I cannot have a relationship with someone

whose version of moment-to-moment real-time reality (and history) is so nearly

diametrically opposed to mine.

>

> Its too upsetting, energy-draining and health-draining for me to be in a

position of continually having to defend what I know to be the truth and in most

cases I can objectively demonstrate to be the truth.

>

> Its sad, but this clash of realities is a major roadblock for me resuming

contact with my nada.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

How about the ones where you are doing something (such as ruining your life by

choosing a career you don't fit, but THEY want you to do, only you won't know

that til it's 10 years too late), but they won't help you do anything?

I needed some prior experience in this career in order to get in. You had to

have had some kind of entry level job. It was too much trouble for Nada to

drive me anywhere and due to her pathological fear of driving, she didn't want

me to drive, either. How was I supposed to get anywhere? I ended up taking a

bus clear across Hampton, and she didn't even want to drive me to catch the bus.

We had a quiz show for high school student teams locally when I was in high

school. It was a big egoboo for her to see me on it. But, we had morning

practices before school which she didn't want to get up early to drive me to.

Luckily, there was an early bus I could take, but sometimes the bus driver would

forget she needed to come down our street at that hour. Boy, was nada mad she

had to get up and drive me, even though I had reminded the driver and it wasn't

even my fault.

But WHO was responsible for me doing all these things??? Uh-huh...nada.

*rolleyes.gif*

--.

[Guest guest]

Arianna, boy, do I feel for you. And I completely understand the feeling of

waiting years to get to what you should have been doing. At least you still

can.

I think the only way to get her out is demand that she leave. Yeah, it will be

a crap storm, but I really can't think of any other way to get one's nada out of

one's house.

Unless one of you contracts leprosy or something.

--.

[Guest guest]

Arianna, boy, do I feel for you. And I completely understand the feeling of

waiting years to get to what you should have been doing. At least you still

can.

I think the only way to get her out is demand that she leave. Yeah, it will be

a crap storm, but I really can't think of any other way to get one's nada out of

one's house.

Unless one of you contracts leprosy or something.

--.

[Guest guest]

Arianna, boy, do I feel for you. And I completely understand the feeling of

waiting years to get to what you should have been doing. At least you still

can.

I think the only way to get her out is demand that she leave. Yeah, it will be

a crap storm, but I really can't think of any other way to get one's nada out of

one's house.

Unless one of you contracts leprosy or something.

--.

[Guest guest]

Arianna,

Yes, me too me too me too!! Everything you said, me too.

Yeah, I'd tell her to go. Hell, I'd be tempted to pack up and leave my own

home to get away from her.

XOXO

>

>

> Arianna, boy, do I feel for you. And I completely understand the feeling of

> waiting years to get to what you should have been doing. At least you still

> can.

>

> I think the only way to get her out is demand that she leave. Yeah, it will

> be a crap storm, but I really can't think of any other way to get one's nada

> out of one's house.

>

> Unless one of you contracts leprosy or something.

>

>

>

> --.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Arianna,

Yes, me too me too me too!! Everything you said, me too.

Yeah, I'd tell her to go. Hell, I'd be tempted to pack up and leave my own

home to get away from her.

XOXO

>

>

> Arianna, boy, do I feel for you. And I completely understand the feeling of

> waiting years to get to what you should have been doing. At least you still

> can.

>

> I think the only way to get her out is demand that she leave. Yeah, it will

> be a crap storm, but I really can't think of any other way to get one's nada

> out of one's house.

>

> Unless one of you contracts leprosy or something.

>

>

>

> --.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Arianna,

Yes, me too me too me too!! Everything you said, me too.

Yeah, I'd tell her to go. Hell, I'd be tempted to pack up and leave my own

home to get away from her.

XOXO

>

>

> Arianna, boy, do I feel for you. And I completely understand the feeling of

> waiting years to get to what you should have been doing. At least you still

> can.

>

> I think the only way to get her out is demand that she leave. Yeah, it will

> be a crap storm, but I really can't think of any other way to get one's nada

> out of one's house.

>

> Unless one of you contracts leprosy or something.

>

>

>

> --.

>

>

>