Guest guest Posted January 3, 2001 Report Share Posted January 3, 2001 if i recall correctly, the majority of aa members from a official AA survey showed most members were also white males. does that matter? im not a sociologists, but i would think it would have to on some level to a degree. > Pete Watts recently observed that AA with emphasis on reading has a > middle-class bias and probably does not appeal to those with lesser > education. > > I have a few statistics which back this up. From a work in progress. > > Managerial, Professional Occupations > > AA membership 48% (from AA membership survey) > Heavy Drinkers 25% > Population 27% > > Blue Coller (Production workers, etc) > AA Membership 18% > Heavy Drinkers 37% > Population 26% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2001 Report Share Posted January 3, 2001 if i recall correctly, the majority of aa members from a official AA survey showed most members were also white males. does that matter? im not a sociologists, but i would think it would have to on some level to a degree. > Pete Watts recently observed that AA with emphasis on reading has a > middle-class bias and probably does not appeal to those with lesser > education. > > I have a few statistics which back this up. From a work in progress. > > Managerial, Professional Occupations > > AA membership 48% (from AA membership survey) > Heavy Drinkers 25% > Population 27% > > Blue Coller (Production workers, etc) > AA Membership 18% > Heavy Drinkers 37% > Population 26% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2001 Report Share Posted January 3, 2001 if i recall correctly, the majority of aa members from a official AA survey showed most members were also white males. does that matter? im not a sociologists, but i would think it would have to on some level to a degree. > Pete Watts recently observed that AA with emphasis on reading has a > middle-class bias and probably does not appeal to those with lesser > education. > > I have a few statistics which back this up. From a work in progress. > > Managerial, Professional Occupations > > AA membership 48% (from AA membership survey) > Heavy Drinkers 25% > Population 27% > > Blue Coller (Production workers, etc) > AA Membership 18% > Heavy Drinkers 37% > Population 26% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2001 Report Share Posted January 4, 2001 > Pete Watts recently observed that AA with emphasis on reading has a > middle-class bias and probably does not appeal to those with lesser > education. > > I have a few statistics which back this up. From a work in progress. > > Managerial, Professional Occupations > > AA membership 48% (from AA membership survey) > Heavy Drinkers 25% > Population 27% > > Blue Coller (Production workers, etc) > AA Membership 18% > Heavy Drinkers 37% > Population 26% ------------------------ Hi Stuart -- If I understand these stats correctly (not that they're necessarily accurate), 37% of blue collar workers are heavy drinkers, but only 18% of AA'ers are blue collar workers. Now, why would you draw the conclusion that blue collar workers would tend to avoid AA because there's too much reading material? Having been a blue collar worker for the last 20 years, I will present a different observation and theory -- blue collar workers first of all are extremely unlikely to think of heavy drinking or any other bad habits as " diseases " ; and secondly tend to have a great degree of personal pride and " do-it-yourself " -ness, i.e. solving problems without joining support groups. There is certainly a " good- buddy " kind of support, but I've never known any co-workers to be into official support groups or group therapy of any kind. BTW, many railroad folks are quite well-read, and several (myself included) have college degrees. ~Rita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2001 Report Share Posted January 4, 2001 > Pete Watts recently observed that AA with emphasis on reading has a > middle-class bias and probably does not appeal to those with lesser > education. > > I have a few statistics which back this up. From a work in progress. > > Managerial, Professional Occupations > > AA membership 48% (from AA membership survey) > Heavy Drinkers 25% > Population 27% > > Blue Coller (Production workers, etc) > AA Membership 18% > Heavy Drinkers 37% > Population 26% ------------------------ Hi Stuart -- If I understand these stats correctly (not that they're necessarily accurate), 37% of blue collar workers are heavy drinkers, but only 18% of AA'ers are blue collar workers. Now, why would you draw the conclusion that blue collar workers would tend to avoid AA because there's too much reading material? Having been a blue collar worker for the last 20 years, I will present a different observation and theory -- blue collar workers first of all are extremely unlikely to think of heavy drinking or any other bad habits as " diseases " ; and secondly tend to have a great degree of personal pride and " do-it-yourself " -ness, i.e. solving problems without joining support groups. There is certainly a " good- buddy " kind of support, but I've never known any co-workers to be into official support groups or group therapy of any kind. BTW, many railroad folks are quite well-read, and several (myself included) have college degrees. ~Rita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2001 Report Share Posted January 4, 2001 > Pete Watts recently observed that AA with emphasis on reading has a > middle-class bias and probably does not appeal to those with lesser > education. > > I have a few statistics which back this up. From a work in progress. > > Managerial, Professional Occupations > > AA membership 48% (from AA membership survey) > Heavy Drinkers 25% > Population 27% > > Blue Coller (Production workers, etc) > AA Membership 18% > Heavy Drinkers 37% > Population 26% ------------------------ Hi Stuart -- If I understand these stats correctly (not that they're necessarily accurate), 37% of blue collar workers are heavy drinkers, but only 18% of AA'ers are blue collar workers. Now, why would you draw the conclusion that blue collar workers would tend to avoid AA because there's too much reading material? Having been a blue collar worker for the last 20 years, I will present a different observation and theory -- blue collar workers first of all are extremely unlikely to think of heavy drinking or any other bad habits as " diseases " ; and secondly tend to have a great degree of personal pride and " do-it-yourself " -ness, i.e. solving problems without joining support groups. There is certainly a " good- buddy " kind of support, but I've never known any co-workers to be into official support groups or group therapy of any kind. BTW, many railroad folks are quite well-read, and several (myself included) have college degrees. ~Rita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2001 Report Share Posted January 4, 2001 Rita, Thanks. I like your theory better than mine or Pete's. There are probably many reasons for the class bias in AA. BTW, I am not excluding the liar factor. It is possible that people exaggerate their occupational status in the AA survey or that the survey is non- random. > <SNIP> > Now, why would you draw the conclusion that blue collar workers > would tend to avoid AA because there's too much reading material? > > Having been a blue collar worker for the last 20 years, I will > present a different observation and theory -- blue collar workers > first of all are extremely unlikely to think of heavy drinking or any > other bad habits as " diseases " ; and secondly tend to have a great > degree of personal pride and " do-it-yourself " -ness, i.e. solving > problems without joining support groups. There is certainly a " good- > buddy " kind of support, but I've never known any co-workers to be > into official support groups or group therapy of any kind. > > BTW, many railroad folks are quite well-read, and several > (myself included) have college degrees. > > ~Rita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2001 Report Share Posted January 4, 2001 Rita, Thanks. I like your theory better than mine or Pete's. There are probably many reasons for the class bias in AA. BTW, I am not excluding the liar factor. It is possible that people exaggerate their occupational status in the AA survey or that the survey is non- random. > <SNIP> > Now, why would you draw the conclusion that blue collar workers > would tend to avoid AA because there's too much reading material? > > Having been a blue collar worker for the last 20 years, I will > present a different observation and theory -- blue collar workers > first of all are extremely unlikely to think of heavy drinking or any > other bad habits as " diseases " ; and secondly tend to have a great > degree of personal pride and " do-it-yourself " -ness, i.e. solving > problems without joining support groups. There is certainly a " good- > buddy " kind of support, but I've never known any co-workers to be > into official support groups or group therapy of any kind. > > BTW, many railroad folks are quite well-read, and several > (myself included) have college degrees. > > ~Rita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2001 Report Share Posted January 4, 2001 > if i recall correctly, the majority of aa members from a official AA > survey showed most members were also white males. does > that matter? im not a sociologists, but i would think it would have > to on some level to a degree. Hi Dave Well in the Western world probably most alcoholics are white males, so it doesnt necessarily mean anything per se. What is more relevant is whether the aa makeup is *representative* of the actual alcoholic population, rather than the absolute numbers. I believe that white ppl are probably well over-represented, but I think men are probably under-represented now in that apparently some 38% of AA members are women, yet I believe that alcohol dependence is still much more common among men. I think the reason is that women may feel more shame about alcohol problems and not only be stronger motivated to address the issue but also in be more willing to adopt the radical and semi-public penitent, remedial psychological stance of the 12 steps. I have met only a handful of people of color in London XA meetings, despite the fact that some 1/3 of Londoners are of color. This may due to " drug of choice " and other cultural factors, since I saw more ppl of color in the one NA meeting I went to than anywhere else, whereas AA seems to have large numbers of Scots and Irish, but I doubt this is the whole story. The neo-Xtian 12 steps act as a filter against ppl who dont have a Xtian background. Also my impresssion is that black Xtians are often far more heavily committed to their denominational Xtian church and hence seek a religious response to addiction in that setting rather than an XA one; and Fundamentalist churches are often wary of or hostile toward XA. Also, the middle-class tilting in XA will also tend to some extent to be a filter against minorities who are under-represented in the middle classes. Finally of course, there will tend to be some inertia. Ppl from minorities may draw generally more on their community and culture for support and may not feel too comfortable in a white dominated group and stay away, which perpetuates the situation. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2001 Report Share Posted January 4, 2001 > if i recall correctly, the majority of aa members from a official AA > survey showed most members were also white males. does > that matter? im not a sociologists, but i would think it would have > to on some level to a degree. Hi Dave Well in the Western world probably most alcoholics are white males, so it doesnt necessarily mean anything per se. What is more relevant is whether the aa makeup is *representative* of the actual alcoholic population, rather than the absolute numbers. I believe that white ppl are probably well over-represented, but I think men are probably under-represented now in that apparently some 38% of AA members are women, yet I believe that alcohol dependence is still much more common among men. I think the reason is that women may feel more shame about alcohol problems and not only be stronger motivated to address the issue but also in be more willing to adopt the radical and semi-public penitent, remedial psychological stance of the 12 steps. I have met only a handful of people of color in London XA meetings, despite the fact that some 1/3 of Londoners are of color. This may due to " drug of choice " and other cultural factors, since I saw more ppl of color in the one NA meeting I went to than anywhere else, whereas AA seems to have large numbers of Scots and Irish, but I doubt this is the whole story. The neo-Xtian 12 steps act as a filter against ppl who dont have a Xtian background. Also my impresssion is that black Xtians are often far more heavily committed to their denominational Xtian church and hence seek a religious response to addiction in that setting rather than an XA one; and Fundamentalist churches are often wary of or hostile toward XA. Also, the middle-class tilting in XA will also tend to some extent to be a filter against minorities who are under-represented in the middle classes. Finally of course, there will tend to be some inertia. Ppl from minorities may draw generally more on their community and culture for support and may not feel too comfortable in a white dominated group and stay away, which perpetuates the situation. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2001 Report Share Posted January 4, 2001 > There are probably many reasons for the class bias in AA. BTW, I am > not excluding the liar factor. It is possible that people exaggerate > their occupational status in the AA survey or that the survey is non- > random. Almost certainly AA survey methodology is very poor but I think the findings will show the overall trend reasonably well. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2001 Report Share Posted January 4, 2001 > There are probably many reasons for the class bias in AA. BTW, I am > not excluding the liar factor. It is possible that people exaggerate > their occupational status in the AA survey or that the survey is non- > random. Almost certainly AA survey methodology is very poor but I think the findings will show the overall trend reasonably well. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2001 Report Share Posted January 4, 2001 > There are probably many reasons for the class bias in AA. BTW, I am > not excluding the liar factor. It is possible that people exaggerate > their occupational status in the AA survey or that the survey is non- > random. Almost certainly AA survey methodology is very poor but I think the findings will show the overall trend reasonably well. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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