Re: AA - use of analogies

[Guest guest]

welcome dave,

>

>The meetings were so depressing and focused on negative

reinforcement (i.e. don't go to meetings you'll surely die) to

keep sober. So I thought instead of spending so much time at

meetings in this type of environment, why not do something

positive to keep sober. So I started cutting back on meetings

and instead get my disorganized life back in order and start

exercising regularly(I had very high cholesterol). I started doing

this more and more of this and starting feeling a hell of a

lot better not only physically, but mentally as well.

i had this same reaction, i could see even when i had 17 days

sober, that meetings were an exercise in masochism. i also

decided to exercise, quit smoking, and take care of my shattered

ego and low self esteem. working out and taking care of

my health was how i choose to express this self love. i was told

by my sponsor and other " elders " , " that never kept

anyone sober " . (ah , i see, but sitting a round in a poorly lit

church basement, drinking lousy coffee, smoking cigarettes and

trying to out do each other with tales of recovery does?)

>

> Well you know whats next. Yes, my sponsor wasn't too happy

about my missing a lot of meetings. I had an increasing

desire to leave AA because of all of the mumbo jumbo so I met

with my sponsor for dinner to talk about my reservations of

AA as the only recovery option. Everything I said seemed to go in

one ear and out the other. Everything he said to oppose

my viewpoint was loaded with slogans.

that is why in end i didnt tell my sponsor what i really thought of

aa, my opinion was like my key to unlock the door and i

knew if i shred it with him, he would have nothing but mindless

slogans to dump on it.

>I really felt the conversation come to a standstill of what he said.

I told him, 'I plan on going to the YMCA more to exercise

more because its doing great things with my self respect. I'm

doing a lot of productive things in my now. I'm feeling good.'

He responded, 'Huh. You know Dave, sitting in the bar a lot

pounding beers and shots made you feel good too and look

where it got you.' My mouth dropped like a brick. Needless to

say, this was an exercise in futility and I tried my best to

shorten up the dinner. "

teaching you cant trust you own thinking. that has nothing to do

with sobriety but mind control.

>

> I never went to a meeting since and remain off the booze for

over a year.

a

go for you. i stayed sober too, 4.5 years now and in best shape of

my life. im going to do aids ride this summer, 300 miles!

would like to see my 2 pack a day and future lung cancer poster

child sponsor tell me ' " that never kept anyone sober "

>

> 'The Parable Of The Sponsor

basically he was saying you were cold, dead, dark and alone

without aa and indulging in feeling oh so important about

themselves for having this quiet, undeniable wisdom and power

an AA sponsor carries with them every where! awe

inspiring, like obi wan kenobi! just think if that power were used

for darkness!

what about wisdom and self knowledge that isn't AA derived?

there doesn't seem to be a place for that

nor does the sposors parable talk about the emotional and

psyhological and sometimes sexual abuse, the attempts of

destroying the sponsee's confidence, ego and self esteem, or

denying that anything outside of AA has any or perhaps more

value to sobreity.

>

[Guest guest]

--- In 12-step-freeegroups, " Dave Marcoot "

>

> >

> just think if that power were used for darkness!

i forgot, it is! telling people they are dead, cold, dark and alone

and will kill themselves without your abuse, er, " wisdom " pretty

evil. darth vader wishes he was that bad, hell darth maul didnt do

anything that evil in last movie.

[Guest guest]

--- In 12-step-freeegroups, " Dave Marcoot "

>

> >

> just think if that power were used for darkness!

i forgot, it is! telling people they are dead, cold, dark and alone

and will kill themselves without your abuse, er, " wisdom " pretty

evil. darth vader wishes he was that bad, hell darth maul didnt do

anything that evil in last movie.

[Guest guest]

--- In 12-step-freeegroups, " Dave Marcoot "

>

> >

> just think if that power were used for darkness!

i forgot, it is! telling people they are dead, cold, dark and alone

and will kill themselves without your abuse, er, " wisdom " pretty

evil. darth vader wishes he was that bad, hell darth maul didnt do

anything that evil in last movie.

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave

Welcome to the list. Well done for getting your life back in order.

It sounds like you have taken a responsible attitude pretty well all

the way since you stopped drinking and are reaping the benefits of

the same. Keep doin' what yer doin'!

Regarding the parable, it certainly contains an implicit death-threat,

'dead-as-a-doornail'. Apparently AA even has the powers of

restoration to life as well. Ironic that in reality the removed ember

would have stayed intact but in the fire it would have been consumed,

wouldnt it?

It is of course true that human beings are social creatures that

usually need the warmnth of at least a few other souls to stay happy

and well. However, there is something repugnant in the hint that

someone will not be able to achieve this outside of AA.

As a rogue Social Scientist, I guess I'm priveleged to see the

flourishing (and later decline?) of a new world religion, without its

own myths and legends, like this one.

HP.

> Hello everyone,

>

> First time posting to the list and want to add my AA story. In

November of 1999 I got my 3rd DWI. I have a very good job and thought

I was going to lose it for sure. Ended up I didn't with my very

understanding boss but still felt that I was going downhill so the

very next day I attended my very first AA meeting. For the first five

months, 3 month jail stay and 1 month of meetings thereafter I felt

that AA had been a big help. However, as time passed, I felt what a

lot of other people felt in this list that were in AA. The uneasy

feelings from the religious chants, slogans, 'if you don't go to a lot

of meetings' lectures etc. Now I started thinking(ooooh bad thing), I

haven't touched a drink and I feel like crap mentally. The meetings

were so depressing and focused on negative reinforcement (i.e. don't

go to meetings you'll surely die) to keep sober. So I thought instead

of spending so much time at meetings in this type of environment, why

not do something positive to keep sober. So I started cutting back on

meetings and instead get my disorganized life back in order and start

exercising regularly(I had very high cholesterol). I started doing

this more and more of this and starting feeling a hell of a lot better

not only physically, but mentally as well.

>

> Well you know whats next. Yes, my sponsor wasn't too happy about my

missing a lot of meetings. I had an increasing desire to leave AA

because of all of the mumbo jumbo so I met with my sponsor for dinner

to talk about my reservations of AA as the only recovery option.

Everything I said seemed to go in one ear and out the other.

Everything he said to oppose my viewpoint was loaded with slogans. I

really felt the conversation come to a standstill of what he said. I

told him, 'I plan on going to the YMCA more to exercise more because

its doing great things with my self respect. I'm doing a lot of

productive things in my now. I'm feeling good.' He responded, 'Huh.

You know Dave, sitting in the bar a lot pounding beers and shots made

you feel good too and look where it got you.' My mouth dropped like a

brick. Needless to say, this was an exercise in futility and I tried

my best to shorten up the dinner.

>

> I never went to a meeting since and remain off the booze for over a

year. Yes, AA has helped to a degree but there's other options

(SMART, this website). I guess AA doesn't believe that God had given

us the capacity to change. I still see my ex-sponsor on occasion, but

not that often. He's a very nice person, but I don't the AA talk when

we do get together. Now its been about two months since I last talked

with him. I know this is long but I just want to share with you want

he sent me in an e-mail:

>

> 'The Parable Of The Sponsor

> A member of the program of recovery, who previously had been

attending

> meetings regularly, stopped going. After a few weeks, her sponsor

decided to

> visit her. It was a chilly evening and the sponsor found the

sponsee at

> home alone, sitting before a blazing fire.

>

> Guessing the reason for her sponsor's visit, the sponsee welcomed

her, led

> her to a big chair near the fireplace and waited. Her sponsor made

herself

> comfortable but said nothing. In the grave silence, she

contemplated the

> play of the flames around the burning logs. After some minutes, the

sponsor

> took the fire tongs, carefully picked up a brightly burning ember

and placed

> it to one side of the hearth all alone.

>

> Then she sat back in her chair, still silent. The sponsee watched

all this

> in quiet fascination. As the one lone ember's flame diminished,

there was a

> momentary glow and then it's fire was no more. Soon it was cold and

" dead

> as a doornail. "

>

> Not a word had been spoken since the initial greeting.

>

> Just before the sponsor was ready to leave, she picked up the cold,

dead

> ember and placed it back in the middle of the fire. Immediately it

began to

> glow once more with the light and warmth of the burning coals around

it.

>

> As the sponsor reached the door to leave, the sponsee said, " Thank

you so

> much for your visit and especially for the fiery sermon. I'll see

you at

> the meeting in the morning. " '

>

>

>

> Thanks for everything,

>

> Dave