Re: nada's opinion of therapy & another memory

[Guest guest]

I personally think that spanking a child hard is abusive. Its more about the

parent's rage than it is about teaching the child what is and is not acceptable

behavior. Most of the time, harsh physical punishment is not parenting, its

retaliation.

Recording you for the purpose of humiliating you is also abusive, in my book. I

don't think that shaming children and destroying their sense of self-worth is

good parenting.

If parents are normally empathetic, kind, mentally healthy, good parents, then

perhaps recording the child's tantrum wouldn't be terribly shaming or traumatic

to the child. But in the context of frequent physical and emotional abuse

inflicted on the child, recording a tantrum and playing it back to shame her is

just another trauma to process in an endless stream of trauma. So, yes, in your

case it was abusive.

-Annie

>

> So a couple of things just randomly popped into my mind today. I remember

> at one point, I was probably 16 - 19 years old, I told nada I wanted to go

> to therapy. She looked at me with that cocky look & scoffed, " Why? So you

> can make ME look like a bad mother? No. "

>

> I'm realizing just how BPD this is of her... once again, she took something

> that was about me and made it about her. It reminds me of what we're going

> through with fiance's likely BPD ex wife and their kids' therapy. Oy.

> Also, it makes me wonder if somewhere deep down inside her she KNOWS she

> abused me.

>

> I also think I recovered a memory today. It's been surfacing kind of slowly

> in broken pieces and now more of it is coming together.

>

> When I was 3, my parents divorced. Nada & I lived with her mother, my

> grandnada (GN here). This memory, I was about 4 or 5 and all I could

> remember at first was screaming & crying in my room at GN's house... then I

> remembered related guilt. Finally it came together.

>

> I was 4 or 5 and I was throwing a tantrum as kids that age tend to do. Nada

> spanked me royally and sent me to my room at GN's house. I was crying &

> screaming because I was hurting, probably angry and sad. I have no idea

> what caused the tantrum. Anyway. I wouldn't stop crying & throwing my

> tantrum, and GN told nada to take my little tape recorder and record me

> throwing a fit and to make me listen to it later. I remember I was lying

> near the bedroom door and I could hear them talking. At this point, before

> their plot to record me, I was starting to calm down and was just crying

> quietly to myself. Well when nada came down the hall yelling that she had

> the tape recorder & was going to record my fit, I started yelling even more

> because I so did NOT want her to do that. Well, she did it anyway. After

> a while I calmed down and just lay on the floor for a while until I fell

> asleep. Nada woke me up a little later and I was fine. Then she dragged me

> to the dining room and made me listen to that tape. I begged her to stop it

> because I was feeling embarrassed and guilty but she made me listen to it

> anyway. Of course, then I started crying again.

>

> This memory puts a knot in my stomach, like it's " off " . It also makes me

> feel embarrassed! (weird), But to be completely honest I'm not sure it's

> entirely wrong/abusive? I think so, but I wonder. Just another example of

> a KO not knowing if something was abusive or not. No clue. Was wondering

> what you guys thought? I know I would never do that to my step kids, never.

> But again, left wondering.

>

> Thoughts? Ty.

>

> Mia

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I personally think that spanking a child hard is abusive. Its more about the

parent's rage than it is about teaching the child what is and is not acceptable

behavior. Most of the time, harsh physical punishment is not parenting, its

retaliation.

Recording you for the purpose of humiliating you is also abusive, in my book. I

don't think that shaming children and destroying their sense of self-worth is

good parenting.

If parents are normally empathetic, kind, mentally healthy, good parents, then

perhaps recording the child's tantrum wouldn't be terribly shaming or traumatic

to the child. But in the context of frequent physical and emotional abuse

inflicted on the child, recording a tantrum and playing it back to shame her is

just another trauma to process in an endless stream of trauma. So, yes, in your

case it was abusive.

-Annie

>

> So a couple of things just randomly popped into my mind today. I remember

> at one point, I was probably 16 - 19 years old, I told nada I wanted to go

> to therapy. She looked at me with that cocky look & scoffed, " Why? So you

> can make ME look like a bad mother? No. "

>

> I'm realizing just how BPD this is of her... once again, she took something

> that was about me and made it about her. It reminds me of what we're going

> through with fiance's likely BPD ex wife and their kids' therapy. Oy.

> Also, it makes me wonder if somewhere deep down inside her she KNOWS she

> abused me.

>

> I also think I recovered a memory today. It's been surfacing kind of slowly

> in broken pieces and now more of it is coming together.

>

> When I was 3, my parents divorced. Nada & I lived with her mother, my

> grandnada (GN here). This memory, I was about 4 or 5 and all I could

> remember at first was screaming & crying in my room at GN's house... then I

> remembered related guilt. Finally it came together.

>

> I was 4 or 5 and I was throwing a tantrum as kids that age tend to do. Nada

> spanked me royally and sent me to my room at GN's house. I was crying &

> screaming because I was hurting, probably angry and sad. I have no idea

> what caused the tantrum. Anyway. I wouldn't stop crying & throwing my

> tantrum, and GN told nada to take my little tape recorder and record me

> throwing a fit and to make me listen to it later. I remember I was lying

> near the bedroom door and I could hear them talking. At this point, before

> their plot to record me, I was starting to calm down and was just crying

> quietly to myself. Well when nada came down the hall yelling that she had

> the tape recorder & was going to record my fit, I started yelling even more

> because I so did NOT want her to do that. Well, she did it anyway. After

> a while I calmed down and just lay on the floor for a while until I fell

> asleep. Nada woke me up a little later and I was fine. Then she dragged me

> to the dining room and made me listen to that tape. I begged her to stop it

> because I was feeling embarrassed and guilty but she made me listen to it

> anyway. Of course, then I started crying again.

>

> This memory puts a knot in my stomach, like it's " off " . It also makes me

> feel embarrassed! (weird), But to be completely honest I'm not sure it's

> entirely wrong/abusive? I think so, but I wonder. Just another example of

> a KO not knowing if something was abusive or not. No clue. Was wondering

> what you guys thought? I know I would never do that to my step kids, never.

> But again, left wondering.

>

> Thoughts? Ty.

>

> Mia

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I personally think that spanking a child hard is abusive. Its more about the

parent's rage than it is about teaching the child what is and is not acceptable

behavior. Most of the time, harsh physical punishment is not parenting, its

retaliation.

Recording you for the purpose of humiliating you is also abusive, in my book. I

don't think that shaming children and destroying their sense of self-worth is

good parenting.

If parents are normally empathetic, kind, mentally healthy, good parents, then

perhaps recording the child's tantrum wouldn't be terribly shaming or traumatic

to the child. But in the context of frequent physical and emotional abuse

inflicted on the child, recording a tantrum and playing it back to shame her is

just another trauma to process in an endless stream of trauma. So, yes, in your

case it was abusive.

-Annie

>

> So a couple of things just randomly popped into my mind today. I remember

> at one point, I was probably 16 - 19 years old, I told nada I wanted to go

> to therapy. She looked at me with that cocky look & scoffed, " Why? So you

> can make ME look like a bad mother? No. "

>

> I'm realizing just how BPD this is of her... once again, she took something

> that was about me and made it about her. It reminds me of what we're going

> through with fiance's likely BPD ex wife and their kids' therapy. Oy.

> Also, it makes me wonder if somewhere deep down inside her she KNOWS she

> abused me.

>

> I also think I recovered a memory today. It's been surfacing kind of slowly

> in broken pieces and now more of it is coming together.

>

> When I was 3, my parents divorced. Nada & I lived with her mother, my

> grandnada (GN here). This memory, I was about 4 or 5 and all I could

> remember at first was screaming & crying in my room at GN's house... then I

> remembered related guilt. Finally it came together.

>

> I was 4 or 5 and I was throwing a tantrum as kids that age tend to do. Nada

> spanked me royally and sent me to my room at GN's house. I was crying &

> screaming because I was hurting, probably angry and sad. I have no idea

> what caused the tantrum. Anyway. I wouldn't stop crying & throwing my

> tantrum, and GN told nada to take my little tape recorder and record me

> throwing a fit and to make me listen to it later. I remember I was lying

> near the bedroom door and I could hear them talking. At this point, before

> their plot to record me, I was starting to calm down and was just crying

> quietly to myself. Well when nada came down the hall yelling that she had

> the tape recorder & was going to record my fit, I started yelling even more

> because I so did NOT want her to do that. Well, she did it anyway. After

> a while I calmed down and just lay on the floor for a while until I fell

> asleep. Nada woke me up a little later and I was fine. Then she dragged me

> to the dining room and made me listen to that tape. I begged her to stop it

> because I was feeling embarrassed and guilty but she made me listen to it

> anyway. Of course, then I started crying again.

>

> This memory puts a knot in my stomach, like it's " off " . It also makes me

> feel embarrassed! (weird), But to be completely honest I'm not sure it's

> entirely wrong/abusive? I think so, but I wonder. Just another example of

> a KO not knowing if something was abusive or not. No clue. Was wondering

> what you guys thought? I know I would never do that to my step kids, never.

> But again, left wondering.

>

> Thoughts? Ty.

>

> Mia

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think the case here is definately abusive, I think probalby all that needed

done was to send you to your room and that was it.  I have to do that with my

son.  The comment on spanking, I'm not saying it's either way, here but I do

think some kids respond to spanking better than sending them to the corner or

their room, just my opinion.  Although I think some of the things that our

nadas would have spanked us for was not for normal reasons but their own crazy

ideas.

proflaf

Subject: Re: nada's opinion of therapy & another memory

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Wednesday, January 26, 2011, 5:09 PM

 

I personally think that spanking a child hard is abusive. Its more about the

parent's rage than it is about teaching the child what is and is not acceptable

behavior. Most of the time, harsh physical punishment is not parenting, its

retaliation.

Recording you for the purpose of humiliating you is also abusive, in my book. I

don't think that shaming children and destroying their sense of self-worth is

good parenting.

If parents are normally empathetic, kind, mentally healthy, good parents, then

perhaps recording the child's tantrum wouldn't be terribly shaming or traumatic

to the child. But in the context of frequent physical and emotional abuse

inflicted on the child, recording a tantrum and playing it back to shame her is

just another trauma to process in an endless stream of trauma. So, yes, in your

case it was abusive.

-Annie

>

> So a couple of things just randomly popped into my mind today. I remember

> at one point, I was probably 16 - 19 years old, I told nada I wanted to go

> to therapy. She looked at me with that cocky look & scoffed, " Why? So you

> can make ME look like a bad mother? No. "

>

> I'm realizing just how BPD this is of her... once again, she took something

> that was about me and made it about her. It reminds me of what we're going

> through with fiance's likely BPD ex wife and their kids' therapy. Oy.

> Also, it makes me wonder if somewhere deep down inside her she KNOWS she

> abused me.

>

> I also think I recovered a memory today. It's been surfacing kind of slowly

> in broken pieces and now more of it is coming together.

>

> When I was 3, my parents divorced. Nada & I lived with her mother, my

> grandnada (GN here). This memory, I was about 4 or 5 and all I could

> remember at first was screaming & crying in my room at GN's house... then I

> remembered related guilt. Finally it came together.

>

> I was 4 or 5 and I was throwing a tantrum as kids that age tend to do. Nada

> spanked me royally and sent me to my room at GN's house. I was crying &

> screaming because I was hurting, probably angry and sad. I have no idea

> what caused the tantrum. Anyway. I wouldn't stop crying & throwing my

> tantrum, and GN told nada to take my little tape recorder and record me

> throwing a fit and to make me listen to it later. I remember I was lying

> near the bedroom door and I could hear them talking. At this point, before

> their plot to record me, I was starting to calm down and was just crying

> quietly to myself. Well when nada came down the hall yelling that she had

> the tape recorder & was going to record my fit, I started yelling even more

> because I so did NOT want her to do that. Well, she did it anyway. After

> a while I calmed down and just lay on the floor for a while until I fell

> asleep. Nada woke me up a little later and I was fine. Then she dragged me

> to the dining room and made me listen to that tape. I begged her to stop it

> because I was feeling embarrassed and guilty but she made me listen to it

> anyway. Of course, then I started crying again.

>

> This memory puts a knot in my stomach, like it's " off " . It also makes me

> feel embarrassed! (weird), But to be completely honest I'm not sure it's

> entirely wrong/abusive? I think so, but I wonder. Just another example of

> a KO not knowing if something was abusive or not. No clue. Was wondering

> what you guys thought? I know I would never do that to my step kids, never.

> But again, left wondering.

>

> Thoughts? Ty.

>

> Mia

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think the case here is definately abusive, I think probalby all that needed

done was to send you to your room and that was it.  I have to do that with my

son.  The comment on spanking, I'm not saying it's either way, here but I do

think some kids respond to spanking better than sending them to the corner or

their room, just my opinion.  Although I think some of the things that our

nadas would have spanked us for was not for normal reasons but their own crazy

ideas.

proflaf

Subject: Re: nada's opinion of therapy & another memory

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Wednesday, January 26, 2011, 5:09 PM

 

I personally think that spanking a child hard is abusive. Its more about the

parent's rage than it is about teaching the child what is and is not acceptable

behavior. Most of the time, harsh physical punishment is not parenting, its

retaliation.

Recording you for the purpose of humiliating you is also abusive, in my book. I

don't think that shaming children and destroying their sense of self-worth is

good parenting.

If parents are normally empathetic, kind, mentally healthy, good parents, then

perhaps recording the child's tantrum wouldn't be terribly shaming or traumatic

to the child. But in the context of frequent physical and emotional abuse

inflicted on the child, recording a tantrum and playing it back to shame her is

just another trauma to process in an endless stream of trauma. So, yes, in your

case it was abusive.

-Annie

>

> So a couple of things just randomly popped into my mind today. I remember

> at one point, I was probably 16 - 19 years old, I told nada I wanted to go

> to therapy. She looked at me with that cocky look & scoffed, " Why? So you

> can make ME look like a bad mother? No. "

>

> I'm realizing just how BPD this is of her... once again, she took something

> that was about me and made it about her. It reminds me of what we're going

> through with fiance's likely BPD ex wife and their kids' therapy. Oy.

> Also, it makes me wonder if somewhere deep down inside her she KNOWS she

> abused me.

>

> I also think I recovered a memory today. It's been surfacing kind of slowly

> in broken pieces and now more of it is coming together.

>

> When I was 3, my parents divorced. Nada & I lived with her mother, my

> grandnada (GN here). This memory, I was about 4 or 5 and all I could

> remember at first was screaming & crying in my room at GN's house... then I

> remembered related guilt. Finally it came together.

>

> I was 4 or 5 and I was throwing a tantrum as kids that age tend to do. Nada

> spanked me royally and sent me to my room at GN's house. I was crying &

> screaming because I was hurting, probably angry and sad. I have no idea

> what caused the tantrum. Anyway. I wouldn't stop crying & throwing my

> tantrum, and GN told nada to take my little tape recorder and record me

> throwing a fit and to make me listen to it later. I remember I was lying

> near the bedroom door and I could hear them talking. At this point, before

> their plot to record me, I was starting to calm down and was just crying

> quietly to myself. Well when nada came down the hall yelling that she had

> the tape recorder & was going to record my fit, I started yelling even more

> because I so did NOT want her to do that. Well, she did it anyway. After

> a while I calmed down and just lay on the floor for a while until I fell

> asleep. Nada woke me up a little later and I was fine. Then she dragged me

> to the dining room and made me listen to that tape. I begged her to stop it

> because I was feeling embarrassed and guilty but she made me listen to it

> anyway. Of course, then I started crying again.

>

> This memory puts a knot in my stomach, like it's " off " . It also makes me

> feel embarrassed! (weird), But to be completely honest I'm not sure it's

> entirely wrong/abusive? I think so, but I wonder. Just another example of

> a KO not knowing if something was abusive or not. No clue. Was wondering

> what you guys thought? I know I would never do that to my step kids, never.

> But again, left wondering.

>

> Thoughts? Ty.

>

> Mia

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think the case here is definately abusive, I think probalby all that needed

done was to send you to your room and that was it.  I have to do that with my

son.  The comment on spanking, I'm not saying it's either way, here but I do

think some kids respond to spanking better than sending them to the corner or

their room, just my opinion.  Although I think some of the things that our

nadas would have spanked us for was not for normal reasons but their own crazy

ideas.

proflaf

Subject: Re: nada's opinion of therapy & another memory

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Wednesday, January 26, 2011, 5:09 PM

 

I personally think that spanking a child hard is abusive. Its more about the

parent's rage than it is about teaching the child what is and is not acceptable

behavior. Most of the time, harsh physical punishment is not parenting, its

retaliation.

Recording you for the purpose of humiliating you is also abusive, in my book. I

don't think that shaming children and destroying their sense of self-worth is

good parenting.

If parents are normally empathetic, kind, mentally healthy, good parents, then

perhaps recording the child's tantrum wouldn't be terribly shaming or traumatic

to the child. But in the context of frequent physical and emotional abuse

inflicted on the child, recording a tantrum and playing it back to shame her is

just another trauma to process in an endless stream of trauma. So, yes, in your

case it was abusive.

-Annie

>

> So a couple of things just randomly popped into my mind today. I remember

> at one point, I was probably 16 - 19 years old, I told nada I wanted to go

> to therapy. She looked at me with that cocky look & scoffed, " Why? So you

> can make ME look like a bad mother? No. "

>

> I'm realizing just how BPD this is of her... once again, she took something

> that was about me and made it about her. It reminds me of what we're going

> through with fiance's likely BPD ex wife and their kids' therapy. Oy.

> Also, it makes me wonder if somewhere deep down inside her she KNOWS she

> abused me.

>

> I also think I recovered a memory today. It's been surfacing kind of slowly

> in broken pieces and now more of it is coming together.

>

> When I was 3, my parents divorced. Nada & I lived with her mother, my

> grandnada (GN here). This memory, I was about 4 or 5 and all I could

> remember at first was screaming & crying in my room at GN's house... then I

> remembered related guilt. Finally it came together.

>

> I was 4 or 5 and I was throwing a tantrum as kids that age tend to do. Nada

> spanked me royally and sent me to my room at GN's house. I was crying &

> screaming because I was hurting, probably angry and sad. I have no idea

> what caused the tantrum. Anyway. I wouldn't stop crying & throwing my

> tantrum, and GN told nada to take my little tape recorder and record me

> throwing a fit and to make me listen to it later. I remember I was lying

> near the bedroom door and I could hear them talking. At this point, before

> their plot to record me, I was starting to calm down and was just crying

> quietly to myself. Well when nada came down the hall yelling that she had

> the tape recorder & was going to record my fit, I started yelling even more

> because I so did NOT want her to do that. Well, she did it anyway. After

> a while I calmed down and just lay on the floor for a while until I fell

> asleep. Nada woke me up a little later and I was fine. Then she dragged me

> to the dining room and made me listen to that tape. I begged her to stop it

> because I was feeling embarrassed and guilty but she made me listen to it

> anyway. Of course, then I started crying again.

>

> This memory puts a knot in my stomach, like it's " off " . It also makes me

> feel embarrassed! (weird), But to be completely honest I'm not sure it's

> entirely wrong/abusive? I think so, but I wonder. Just another example of

> a KO not knowing if something was abusive or not. No clue. Was wondering

> what you guys thought? I know I would never do that to my step kids, never.

> But again, left wondering.

>

> Thoughts? Ty.

>

> Mia

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mia,

" Spanked me royally " sounds like a euphamism for " beat me " .

Beating is abuse. I don't have a problem with a simple swat on

the behind with the flat of the parent's hand under some

circumstances, but it shouldn't go beyond that and it shouldn't

be done out of anger or with the intention of causing lasting

pain or humiliation. The taping sounds like an attempt to

humiliate you as well. If her intention had been simply to let

you hear how terrible your tantrum sounded, that might have

served a good purpose, but if the purpose was to humiliate you,

that's emotionally abusive. A lot of the abusive things that

nadas do are things that aren't necessarily categorically

abusive when taken as single incidents. It is the intent behind

them and the pattern of continually degrading us that make them

abusive. It is also the things that don't happen that turn some

behaviors into abuse. When a normal parent has to discipline a

child, the parent is generally sad to have to do it and still

shows love for the child. Nadas often show glee at getting to

dole out punishment rather than sadness and love. I can picture

a nada doing what you describe, and see how abusive it would be.

At 02:03 PM 01/26/2011 Justi3 wrote:

>So a couple of things just randomly popped into my mind

>today. I remember

>at one point, I was probably 16 - 19 years old, I told nada I

>wanted to go

>to therapy. She looked at me with that cocky look & scoffed,

> " Why? So you

>can make ME look like a bad mother? No. "

>

>I'm realizing just how BPD this is of her... once again, she

>took something

>that was about me and made it about her. It reminds me of what

>we're going

>through with fiance's likely BPD ex wife and their kids'

>therapy. Oy.

> Also, it makes me wonder if somewhere deep down inside her

> she KNOWS she

>abused me.

>

>I also think I recovered a memory today. It's been surfacing

>kind of slowly

>in broken pieces and now more of it is coming together.

>

>When I was 3, my parents divorced. Nada & I lived with her

>mother, my

>grandnada (GN here). This memory, I was about 4 or 5 and all I

>could

>remember at first was screaming & crying in my room at GN's

>house... then I

>remembered related guilt. Finally it came together.

>

>I was 4 or 5 and I was throwing a tantrum as kids that age tend

>to do. Nada

>spanked me royally and sent me to my room at GN's house. I was

>crying &

>screaming because I was hurting, probably angry and sad. I

>have no idea

>what caused the tantrum. Anyway. I wouldn't stop crying &

>throwing my

>tantrum, and GN told nada to take my little tape recorder and

>record me

>throwing a fit and to make me listen to it later. I remember I

>was lying

>near the bedroom door and I could hear them talking. At this

>point, before

>their plot to record me, I was starting to calm down and was

>just crying

>quietly to myself. Well when nada came down the hall yelling

>that she had

>the tape recorder & was going to record my fit, I started

>yelling even more

>because I so did NOT want her to do that. Well, she did it

>anyway. After

>a while I calmed down and just lay on the floor for a while

>until I fell

>asleep. Nada woke me up a little later and I was fine. Then

>she dragged me

>to the dining room and made me listen to that tape. I begged

>her to stop it

>because I was feeling embarrassed and guilty but she made me

>listen to it

>anyway. Of course, then I started crying again.

>

>This memory puts a knot in my stomach, like it's " off " . It

>also makes me

>feel embarrassed! (weird), But to be completely honest I'm not

>sure it's

>entirely wrong/abusive? I think so, but I wonder. Just

>another example of

>a KO not knowing if something was abusive or not. No

>clue. Was wondering

>what you guys thought? I know I would never do that to my step

>kids, never.

> But again, left wondering.

>

>Thoughts? Ty.

>

>Mia

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Mia,

" Spanked me royally " sounds like a euphamism for " beat me " .

Beating is abuse. I don't have a problem with a simple swat on

the behind with the flat of the parent's hand under some

circumstances, but it shouldn't go beyond that and it shouldn't

be done out of anger or with the intention of causing lasting

pain or humiliation. The taping sounds like an attempt to

humiliate you as well. If her intention had been simply to let

you hear how terrible your tantrum sounded, that might have

served a good purpose, but if the purpose was to humiliate you,

that's emotionally abusive. A lot of the abusive things that

nadas do are things that aren't necessarily categorically

abusive when taken as single incidents. It is the intent behind

them and the pattern of continually degrading us that make them

abusive. It is also the things that don't happen that turn some

behaviors into abuse. When a normal parent has to discipline a

child, the parent is generally sad to have to do it and still

shows love for the child. Nadas often show glee at getting to

dole out punishment rather than sadness and love. I can picture

a nada doing what you describe, and see how abusive it would be.

At 02:03 PM 01/26/2011 Justi3 wrote:

>So a couple of things just randomly popped into my mind

>today. I remember

>at one point, I was probably 16 - 19 years old, I told nada I

>wanted to go

>to therapy. She looked at me with that cocky look & scoffed,

> " Why? So you

>can make ME look like a bad mother? No. "

>

>I'm realizing just how BPD this is of her... once again, she

>took something

>that was about me and made it about her. It reminds me of what

>we're going

>through with fiance's likely BPD ex wife and their kids'

>therapy. Oy.

> Also, it makes me wonder if somewhere deep down inside her

> she KNOWS she

>abused me.

>

>I also think I recovered a memory today. It's been surfacing

>kind of slowly

>in broken pieces and now more of it is coming together.

>

>When I was 3, my parents divorced. Nada & I lived with her

>mother, my

>grandnada (GN here). This memory, I was about 4 or 5 and all I

>could

>remember at first was screaming & crying in my room at GN's

>house... then I

>remembered related guilt. Finally it came together.

>

>I was 4 or 5 and I was throwing a tantrum as kids that age tend

>to do. Nada

>spanked me royally and sent me to my room at GN's house. I was

>crying &

>screaming because I was hurting, probably angry and sad. I

>have no idea

>what caused the tantrum. Anyway. I wouldn't stop crying &

>throwing my

>tantrum, and GN told nada to take my little tape recorder and

>record me

>throwing a fit and to make me listen to it later. I remember I

>was lying

>near the bedroom door and I could hear them talking. At this

>point, before

>their plot to record me, I was starting to calm down and was

>just crying

>quietly to myself. Well when nada came down the hall yelling

>that she had

>the tape recorder & was going to record my fit, I started

>yelling even more

>because I so did NOT want her to do that. Well, she did it

>anyway. After

>a while I calmed down and just lay on the floor for a while

>until I fell

>asleep. Nada woke me up a little later and I was fine. Then

>she dragged me

>to the dining room and made me listen to that tape. I begged

>her to stop it

>because I was feeling embarrassed and guilty but she made me

>listen to it

>anyway. Of course, then I started crying again.

>

>This memory puts a knot in my stomach, like it's " off " . It

>also makes me

>feel embarrassed! (weird), But to be completely honest I'm not

>sure it's

>entirely wrong/abusive? I think so, but I wonder. Just

>another example of

>a KO not knowing if something was abusive or not. No

>clue. Was wondering

>what you guys thought? I know I would never do that to my step

>kids, never.

> But again, left wondering.

>

>Thoughts? Ty.

>

>Mia

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Mia,

" Spanked me royally " sounds like a euphamism for " beat me " .

Beating is abuse. I don't have a problem with a simple swat on

the behind with the flat of the parent's hand under some

circumstances, but it shouldn't go beyond that and it shouldn't

be done out of anger or with the intention of causing lasting

pain or humiliation. The taping sounds like an attempt to

humiliate you as well. If her intention had been simply to let

you hear how terrible your tantrum sounded, that might have

served a good purpose, but if the purpose was to humiliate you,

that's emotionally abusive. A lot of the abusive things that

nadas do are things that aren't necessarily categorically

abusive when taken as single incidents. It is the intent behind

them and the pattern of continually degrading us that make them

abusive. It is also the things that don't happen that turn some

behaviors into abuse. When a normal parent has to discipline a

child, the parent is generally sad to have to do it and still

shows love for the child. Nadas often show glee at getting to

dole out punishment rather than sadness and love. I can picture

a nada doing what you describe, and see how abusive it would be.

At 02:03 PM 01/26/2011 Justi3 wrote:

>So a couple of things just randomly popped into my mind

>today. I remember

>at one point, I was probably 16 - 19 years old, I told nada I

>wanted to go

>to therapy. She looked at me with that cocky look & scoffed,

> " Why? So you

>can make ME look like a bad mother? No. "

>

>I'm realizing just how BPD this is of her... once again, she

>took something

>that was about me and made it about her. It reminds me of what

>we're going

>through with fiance's likely BPD ex wife and their kids'

>therapy. Oy.

> Also, it makes me wonder if somewhere deep down inside her

> she KNOWS she

>abused me.

>

>I also think I recovered a memory today. It's been surfacing

>kind of slowly

>in broken pieces and now more of it is coming together.

>

>When I was 3, my parents divorced. Nada & I lived with her

>mother, my

>grandnada (GN here). This memory, I was about 4 or 5 and all I

>could

>remember at first was screaming & crying in my room at GN's

>house... then I

>remembered related guilt. Finally it came together.

>

>I was 4 or 5 and I was throwing a tantrum as kids that age tend

>to do. Nada

>spanked me royally and sent me to my room at GN's house. I was

>crying &

>screaming because I was hurting, probably angry and sad. I

>have no idea

>what caused the tantrum. Anyway. I wouldn't stop crying &

>throwing my

>tantrum, and GN told nada to take my little tape recorder and

>record me

>throwing a fit and to make me listen to it later. I remember I

>was lying

>near the bedroom door and I could hear them talking. At this

>point, before

>their plot to record me, I was starting to calm down and was

>just crying

>quietly to myself. Well when nada came down the hall yelling

>that she had

>the tape recorder & was going to record my fit, I started

>yelling even more

>because I so did NOT want her to do that. Well, she did it

>anyway. After

>a while I calmed down and just lay on the floor for a while

>until I fell

>asleep. Nada woke me up a little later and I was fine. Then

>she dragged me

>to the dining room and made me listen to that tape. I begged

>her to stop it

>because I was feeling embarrassed and guilty but she made me

>listen to it

>anyway. Of course, then I started crying again.

>

>This memory puts a knot in my stomach, like it's " off " . It

>also makes me

>feel embarrassed! (weird), But to be completely honest I'm not

>sure it's

>entirely wrong/abusive? I think so, but I wonder. Just

>another example of

>a KO not knowing if something was abusive or not. No

>clue. Was wondering

>what you guys thought? I know I would never do that to my step

>kids, never.

> But again, left wondering.

>

>Thoughts? Ty.

>

>Mia

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Thank you all for the input. I think it's weird how I can look back at

things and wonder if something was abusive. I guess it's kind of like what

Cowgirl was describing regarding her bed in another post... that's just how

it was. I think the best way I could probably figure it out is to listen to

my gut feeling on it. When I do think about it I don't like what my gut

tells me, but then again the gut feeling is so subtle. My T has told me

before that I have a hard time noticing those gut feelings, she also said

it's common with C-PTSD... this is, I think, one of those situations.

I think you guys are right, in the context of a nada, this was likely

abusive both physically as well as psychologically. And you guys are right,

it was humiliating. I remember begging her to stop but she wouldn't. I felt

horrible.

Anyway, thank you all for the input, I do appreciate it.

Mia

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you all for the input. I think it's weird how I can look back at

things and wonder if something was abusive. I guess it's kind of like what

Cowgirl was describing regarding her bed in another post... that's just how

it was. I think the best way I could probably figure it out is to listen to

my gut feeling on it. When I do think about it I don't like what my gut

tells me, but then again the gut feeling is so subtle. My T has told me

before that I have a hard time noticing those gut feelings, she also said

it's common with C-PTSD... this is, I think, one of those situations.

I think you guys are right, in the context of a nada, this was likely

abusive both physically as well as psychologically. And you guys are right,

it was humiliating. I remember begging her to stop but she wouldn't. I felt

horrible.

Anyway, thank you all for the input, I do appreciate it.

Mia

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you all for the input. I think it's weird how I can look back at

things and wonder if something was abusive. I guess it's kind of like what

Cowgirl was describing regarding her bed in another post... that's just how

it was. I think the best way I could probably figure it out is to listen to

my gut feeling on it. When I do think about it I don't like what my gut

tells me, but then again the gut feeling is so subtle. My T has told me

before that I have a hard time noticing those gut feelings, she also said

it's common with C-PTSD... this is, I think, one of those situations.

I think you guys are right, in the context of a nada, this was likely

abusive both physically as well as psychologically. And you guys are right,

it was humiliating. I remember begging her to stop but she wouldn't. I felt

horrible.

Anyway, thank you all for the input, I do appreciate it.

Mia

>

[Guest guest]

Mia,

I don't know if it was legally abuse, but how about just bad parenting? I think

a lot of times about stuff my dad did (he's the nonBPD ex-spouse), and while I

don't think it was abuse, it did hurt me and leave an impression on me that

affected me throughout my life until I recognized it. I think all parents do

things from time to time, without realizing, that can affect their children

negatively throughout their lives and would just be considered " bad parenting " .

Like my dad commenting (and I can't even remember the words) when I was 14 about

my size. I was NOT fat by any means, I think he was just joking about me filling

out, but I became compulsively obsessed with being fat a age 14 and started

doing workout videos. I was 5'3 and around 100lbs. He didn't mean anything by

it, and to this day probably wouldn't even remember it if I said something--but

yes, it was not the best display of good, nurturing parentings skills. And if I

had a regular mother, it probably wouldn't even have affected me, but I didn't.

I had a mother who refused to teach me about " female " things and was intimidated

that I had developed a womanly (but not large) shape at the age of 14. So since

nada made me feel ashamed about it, and my dad made some offhand comment...

Parenting is such a huge responsibility--the smallest thing can totally screw up

a young mind.

Can we all just come out and say it? We had BAD parents.

>

> So a couple of things just randomly popped into my mind today. I remember

> at one point, I was probably 16 - 19 years old, I told nada I wanted to go

> to therapy. She looked at me with that cocky look & scoffed, " Why? So you

> can make ME look like a bad mother? No. "

>

> I'm realizing just how BPD this is of her... once again, she took something

> that was about me and made it about her. It reminds me of what we're going

> through with fiance's likely BPD ex wife and their kids' therapy. Oy.

> Also, it makes me wonder if somewhere deep down inside her she KNOWS she

> abused me.

>

> I also think I recovered a memory today. It's been surfacing kind of slowly

> in broken pieces and now more of it is coming together.

>

> When I was 3, my parents divorced. Nada & I lived with her mother, my

> grandnada (GN here). This memory, I was about 4 or 5 and all I could

> remember at first was screaming & crying in my room at GN's house... then I

> remembered related guilt. Finally it came together.

>

> I was 4 or 5 and I was throwing a tantrum as kids that age tend to do. Nada

> spanked me royally and sent me to my room at GN's house. I was crying &

> screaming because I was hurting, probably angry and sad. I have no idea

> what caused the tantrum. Anyway. I wouldn't stop crying & throwing my

> tantrum, and GN told nada to take my little tape recorder and record me

> throwing a fit and to make me listen to it later. I remember I was lying

> near the bedroom door and I could hear them talking. At this point, before

> their plot to record me, I was starting to calm down and was just crying

> quietly to myself. Well when nada came down the hall yelling that she had

> the tape recorder & was going to record my fit, I started yelling even more

> because I so did NOT want her to do that. Well, she did it anyway. After

> a while I calmed down and just lay on the floor for a while until I fell

> asleep. Nada woke me up a little later and I was fine. Then she dragged me

> to the dining room and made me listen to that tape. I begged her to stop it

> because I was feeling embarrassed and guilty but she made me listen to it

> anyway. Of course, then I started crying again.

>

> This memory puts a knot in my stomach, like it's " off " . It also makes me

> feel embarrassed! (weird), But to be completely honest I'm not sure it's

> entirely wrong/abusive? I think so, but I wonder. Just another example of

> a KO not knowing if something was abusive or not. No clue. Was wondering

> what you guys thought? I know I would never do that to my step kids, never.

> But again, left wondering.

>

> Thoughts? Ty.

>

> Mia

>

>

>