Re: Re: Trying to Understand

[Guest guest]

I'm glad you feel better Jaie. Hm, weird emotions after a hysterectomy...

maybe that's my problem lol. Kidding, I had weird emotions goin' on for

moths prior.

If this person from your church thinks you are incapable of unconditional

love, well they'd probably come after me with pitchforks and torches lol.

Why? Because you're a bigger person than me... I don't love my nada. I

really don't. Maybe that's part of my own grieving process but at this

point in the game, I can say that & it's very true. I fear her. You don't

fear people that you love & who love you. That's my 2 cents anyway.

I think the statements made to you would really get to me too to be honest.

But, then I'd figure it out & tell myself, " It's their opinion and their

issue -- their problem. " It doesn't make that person a bad person IMO, but,

it would be a topic of conversation I would avoid at all costs with them.

Even if it meant putting down some boundaries & saying, " Listen, I enjoy

your company/conversation/friendship/whatever but I don't want to discuss my

mother with you. "

I also don't like to see religious texts used against people. It's not a

good way to help someone heal in any fashion, be it emotional or spiritual

healing.

Mia

[Guest guest]

Oh Karla, I'm glad you chimed in. Your spiritual abuse book is the one that

helped me with this. What is it?

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 4:57 PM, kyjohnson40days

wrote:

>

>

> ((((Jaie)))))

>

> I SO get this!! As a Christian, I'm constantly tripped up by " sanctified

> codependence. " The Christian community, (and maybe many other spiritual

> communities) seems to have hi-jacked spirituality to defend codependence and

> ungodly dysfunction.

>

> Phew--a little strong there, no? You can tell how much this one gets to

> me!!!

>

> Again, my spiritual perspective is Christianity, so I'll speak from this

> " lens. " If you don't share my religious perspective, I'm asking for a little

> grace--hopefully, my point will transfer.

>

> Jesus didn't round up the BPD, narcissistic, abusive addicts for his inner

> circle. Yes, his disciples were human and flawed. But none of them hi-jacked

> his life because of their severe dysfunction. None of them abused Jesus and

> used his " forgiveness " to continue to do so. None of them worked towards

> Jesus' destruction (however unintentionally).

>

> There are a few times in the Bible when Jesus' enemies were coming after

> him. When Jesus got wind of the fact that his life was in danger, he didn't

> stick around due to some misguided idealism of a perfect ending. He quickly

> got out of town. In other words, Jesus never ever endured/risked his

> well-being just to placate someone else's dysfunction. Crucifixion aside, of

> course! :-)

>

> Jesus respected others' decisions and let them be who they chose to be.

> (Rich young ruler is a good example). That included letting them walk away,

> even if that meant bad things for them. He never chased people down trying

> to rescue them.

>

> I could go on . . . but crazymaking with sweet spiritual platitudes is

> crazymaking nonetheless. Enduring abuse for another's sick lusts isn't holy.

> That's just stupid. " Forgiving " someone into changing is based on the

> premise that you have the power to change another person. We can only change

> ourselves, and even that is questionable with a personality disorder.

>

> Hope that makes sense. The books Boundaries and " Love is a Choice " really

> helped me on this one.

>

> GAH this stuff really gets to me!! As if abuse isn't bad enough to endure .

> . . people (however well-intentioned) have to add a layer of guilt on top of

> it all. Sheesh.

>

> Blessings,

> Karla

>

>

>

> >

> > No matter how far you get on your journey of recovery, there is always

> something to explore and learn.

> >

> > I'm a little angry today, seemingly, at the spiritual community I'm

> involved in. They're really good people but there are some phrases bantered

> about where I think they are missing the point...but then again, they're

> touching buttons of mine...

> >

> > Basically the phrases boil down to these:

> >

> > 1. If I had truly given nada my forgiveness, I would have her in my life

> and continue demonstrating my love for her physically, emotionally and

> financially in whatever way she needs.

> >

> > 2. If I really loved nada without condition, I would have her in my life,

> ignore her abuse, and continue to demonstrate my love for her physically,

> emotionally and financially in whatever way she needs.

> >

> > 3. If really had any compassion, I would be understanding that the

> insults and verbal/vulgar abuse she showers me with are only her wounds and

> I would not be witholding my love for her.

> >

> > 4. Your relationships with people, particularly your mother, shows the

> real person you are on the inside - so, then I am what she says - selfish,

> cold and uncaring.

> >

> > So, the root of my anger is obvious, there is still some guilt I carry at

> kicking her out of my life, moving and leaving her no forwarding address and

> changing my home and cell phone numbers so she cannot contact me.

> >

> > I don't think I'm delusional (I could be and I'll look at that) but I see

> myself as I kind, loving and very compassionate soul. I tend towards

> co-dependency so I'm very careful not to get involved in rescuing people but

> that pretty much sums me up. I live to help others while I live and learn

> here in life. I've been through hell and back and still I really care most

> about helping others to heal and transcend pain in their lives.

> >

> > I do care a bit about what people think - particularly in the spiritual

> realms. If I believe myself a spiritual individual, I am acting rather

> un-spiritually with nada in that I refuse to stand there and take her abuse,

> I can't function in my life as a single mother due to the PTSD responses I

> still have from her abusive, vulgar, truly disgusting soul assassination she

> attempts with me. But I have this feeling of failure sometimes when I have

> great relationships with everyone in the world except for abusive people.

> The guys I ran into with NPD - definitely no good relationships there and I

> don't care. Just glad they're gone. The Bi-polar ex and I have a great

> relationship - we get along better now not married than when we were

> married. I truly love him unconditionally - I just couldn't live with him

> and be his mate while he was using. he chose substance - I chose sanity. It

> didn't change my love for him. Its like that with nada to. I love her

> unconditionally but I cannot pretend to be a loving wonderful daughter to a

> woman who is out to destroy me if I won't let her take over and ruin my safe

> sanctuary of home, who's bills I refuse to pay because as a single mom I

> just have enough for us and who I won't drop everything including caring for

> my kids to lavish her with physical affection when I'm just not feeling it,

> who I won't max out the credit cards for to buy her dentures so she can look

> good (I didn't force her to eat oxycodone like candy rotting her teeth out

> of her head - cause her to stop with normal oral hygene), I won't call pawn

> shops all over this land and pay for pawn tickets with interest to retrieve

> her jewelry. These things would make her stop abusing me until the next

> thing comes up she can do splitting with.

> >

> > Really - Am I really wrong in God's eyes for seeking to protect myself? I

> used an analogy earlier - I love all of God's creatures - I really do and I

> love them without condition but I'm not going to take a nap next to a hungry

> tiger or snuggle up to a rattle snake. That would be deadly to me. I have

> absolutely judged my mother but in this way only - I believe her to be

> incredibly ill because no mother, for any reason would ever treat her kids

> the way she treated me, no mother would beg her kids to go deeply into debt

> - we're talking in the thousands and thousands to rescue her from her bad

> decisions, I believe she's wrong for seeking vengeance against her child, I

> believe she is sick, angry, abusive, delusional, unfit, unloving, hurtful

> and more. I judge her unsafe for me. I can come to the conclusion that I

> understand what she says isn't about me and I am really strong but I tried

> to employ this logic and rationalization when she was in my home and she

> destroyed it. My home has always been my sanctuary, the one place in the

> world that we were always safe but when she moved in and stayed for 30 days,

> I wasn't even safe enough to sleep. She'd wake me up at 11 or 12 at night on

> a work night (I have to get up at 4:00 a.m.) and pick a fight with me about

> some delusional thing. I'd go to get a cup of coffee in the morning and I

> was attacked for not beleiving in an hallucination that I could visibly tell

> was unreal. I couldn't use the bathroom without her knocking on the door. I

> couldn't open a cabinet without finding a hateful post-it note. I couldn't

> walk out to my car without finding a note book under my windsheild wiper

> filed with pages of hate, manipulation, insult and guilt. There was no place

> in my home I could be safe from her harm and abuse and yet I see all these

> spiritual people spouting these really beautiful, loving and spiritual

> things that make me feel so bad and so guilty that I chose peace and

> emotional safety in my home for me and I my kids, that I chose to love

> myself instead of putting up with her illness and abuse.

> >

> > If I'm wrong here, I'm chosing not to be right forever because I'll never

> go back and maybe she's right and I will burn in hell miserably for chosing

> to kick her out and refuse to talk to her or listen to minutes and minutes

> filled with hatred and filthy language and vulgar insults and threats to

> " get me. " I just cannot believe that God would send me to hell for

> protecting myself and my kids from my hateful abusive mother. I believe that

> I am not a bad person just because I cannot have a relationship with my

> mother. My mother is obviously mentally ill but I am judged by her insanity.

> Try going out on date with someone - they always want to know how your

> relationship is with your mother. I always just say i love her and change

> the subject for another time after they get to know me a little better so

> I'm not so unfairly judged.

> >

> > How is it that victims of rape or other crimes are supported by the world

> with empathy and protection and all we get is downward glances and judgment

> unfairly? We were victims. I won't be a victim any more. I refuse it and

> with everything in me I will heal this lie she implanted in me of guilt for

> doing what I had to do to emotionally survive.

> >

> > Okay - my vent is over. Thanks for listening. I guess I just had to let

> it out.

> >

> > Jaie

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

thanks for this distinction karla.. i often get it confused too.blessings and

healing to all,ann

Subject: Re: Trying to Understand

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Thursday, January 27, 2011, 8:10 AM

 

Interesting note that might be of service:

When the Bible says " judge not, " that word should be translated as " condemn. "

" Judging " in this instance is the sentiment expressed when you tell someone to

" go to hell. " (Doesn't sound at all like you, by the way).

The Bible is strongly encourages another form of " judging, " which is " to be

discerning. " Masochism via a nada is definitely not discerning.

A pastor friend told me that a few years ago. That made TONS more sense to me!!

Blessings,

Karla

>

> It was an online friend. I have appropriately judged this person as unsafe

for me so have cut contact. But it just upset me to be the victim (which I hate

the idea of) and then have spirituality, (which i love because it has saved my

life), be used as a tool to twist the knife further. Who knows why they did it

and I don't really care any more. I felt the twist in my gut that is never

wrong in judging people unsafe for me and so I won't have to deal with that one

again.

>

> I'm fiercely protective when this issue comes up. I'm sick to death of anyone

telling me not to be judgmental, when that very statement is being used in the

moment out of sync with the biblical passage. The new agers drive insane with

this " don't judge " business. Go sit next to a hungry tiger. Don't you dare be

scared, don't judge. they then start to get the point. Some judgment is

necessary for your survival. That is appropriate judgment.

>

> Thanks so much for your support!

>

> Jaie

>

[Guest guest]

thanks for this distinction karla.. i often get it confused too.blessings and

healing to all,ann

Subject: Re: Trying to Understand

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Thursday, January 27, 2011, 8:10 AM

 

Interesting note that might be of service:

When the Bible says " judge not, " that word should be translated as " condemn. "

" Judging " in this instance is the sentiment expressed when you tell someone to

" go to hell. " (Doesn't sound at all like you, by the way).

The Bible is strongly encourages another form of " judging, " which is " to be

discerning. " Masochism via a nada is definitely not discerning.

A pastor friend told me that a few years ago. That made TONS more sense to me!!

Blessings,

Karla

>

> It was an online friend. I have appropriately judged this person as unsafe

for me so have cut contact. But it just upset me to be the victim (which I hate

the idea of) and then have spirituality, (which i love because it has saved my

life), be used as a tool to twist the knife further. Who knows why they did it

and I don't really care any more. I felt the twist in my gut that is never

wrong in judging people unsafe for me and so I won't have to deal with that one

again.

>

> I'm fiercely protective when this issue comes up. I'm sick to death of anyone

telling me not to be judgmental, when that very statement is being used in the

moment out of sync with the biblical passage. The new agers drive insane with

this " don't judge " business. Go sit next to a hungry tiger. Don't you dare be

scared, don't judge. they then start to get the point. Some judgment is

necessary for your survival. That is appropriate judgment.

>

> Thanks so much for your support!

>

> Jaie

>

[Guest guest]

thanks for this distinction karla.. i often get it confused too.blessings and

healing to all,ann

Subject: Re: Trying to Understand

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Thursday, January 27, 2011, 8:10 AM

 

Interesting note that might be of service:

When the Bible says " judge not, " that word should be translated as " condemn. "

" Judging " in this instance is the sentiment expressed when you tell someone to

" go to hell. " (Doesn't sound at all like you, by the way).

The Bible is strongly encourages another form of " judging, " which is " to be

discerning. " Masochism via a nada is definitely not discerning.

A pastor friend told me that a few years ago. That made TONS more sense to me!!

Blessings,

Karla

>

> It was an online friend. I have appropriately judged this person as unsafe

for me so have cut contact. But it just upset me to be the victim (which I hate

the idea of) and then have spirituality, (which i love because it has saved my

life), be used as a tool to twist the knife further. Who knows why they did it

and I don't really care any more. I felt the twist in my gut that is never

wrong in judging people unsafe for me and so I won't have to deal with that one

again.

>

> I'm fiercely protective when this issue comes up. I'm sick to death of anyone

telling me not to be judgmental, when that very statement is being used in the

moment out of sync with the biblical passage. The new agers drive insane with

this " don't judge " business. Go sit next to a hungry tiger. Don't you dare be

scared, don't judge. they then start to get the point. Some judgment is

necessary for your survival. That is appropriate judgment.

>

> Thanks so much for your support!

>

> Jaie

>