Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Most of the people that are going into healthcare are now becoming nurses. The paramedicine departments at colleges also feel the shortage. Until we can offer comparable salaries to what nursing is offering for the shortage that they are suffering, we will not see an incrrease. Why go to school for 4 sememsters to become a paramedic at $12/hour when you can go 4 semesters and make $25-30/hour. I stay in EMS because this is what I like. > Does anyone out there have any comments or suggestions on how EMS is > going to remedy this paramedic shortage problem? > > The topic seems to be coming up more and more and we are definitely > feeling it here at LPEMS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Most of the people that are going into healthcare are now becoming nurses. The paramedicine departments at colleges also feel the shortage. Until we can offer comparable salaries to what nursing is offering for the shortage that they are suffering, we will not see an incrrease. Why go to school for 4 sememsters to become a paramedic at $12/hour when you can go 4 semesters and make $25-30/hour. I stay in EMS because this is what I like. > Does anyone out there have any comments or suggestions on how EMS is > going to remedy this paramedic shortage problem? > > The topic seems to be coming up more and more and we are definitely > feeling it here at LPEMS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Yes they will require you to have more education as you are incompetent and should not be allowed to work now. You will have to be a lip and work at common wage pay scale that should fix the paramedic shortage real fast. and we all know that national registry will fix any problem we are having it can even replace the tdh people and then the federal marshals office could control ems in Texas maybe a few good fbi special agents could replace several Paramedics. Satire I don't even know what that there word means. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Paramedic Shortage Does anyone out there have any comments or suggestions on how EMS is going to remedy this paramedic shortage problem? The topic seems to be coming up more and more and we are definitely feeling it here at LPEMS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Yes they will require you to have more education as you are incompetent and should not be allowed to work now. You will have to be a lip and work at common wage pay scale that should fix the paramedic shortage real fast. and we all know that national registry will fix any problem we are having it can even replace the tdh people and then the federal marshals office could control ems in Texas maybe a few good fbi special agents could replace several Paramedics. Satire I don't even know what that there word means. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Paramedic Shortage Does anyone out there have any comments or suggestions on how EMS is going to remedy this paramedic shortage problem? The topic seems to be coming up more and more and we are definitely feeling it here at LPEMS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Yes they will require you to have more education as you are incompetent and should not be allowed to work now. You will have to be a lip and work at common wage pay scale that should fix the paramedic shortage real fast. and we all know that national registry will fix any problem we are having it can even replace the tdh people and then the federal marshals office could control ems in Texas maybe a few good fbi special agents could replace several Paramedics. Satire I don't even know what that there word means. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Paramedic Shortage Does anyone out there have any comments or suggestions on how EMS is going to remedy this paramedic shortage problem? The topic seems to be coming up more and more and we are definitely feeling it here at LPEMS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Solution? It's pretty simple.....money. The field of EMS does not compensate it's people enought to cover the investment in time of education, job stress, the effect on your life, etc. As a matter of fact, it's just this side of pathetic and insulting. This is a personal observation only, but I've been out of field EMS for a little over 5 months now, and despite the fact that I am working in a war zone, away from my family, and getting shelled, I'm happier than I've been in years in EMS. I love being a paramedic, and I love the people I work with, but the way the industry treats, and more importantly, pays it's people guarantees ultimate shortages, and endangers the idustry as a whole. Since it's inception, EMS has asked more and more of it's people in terms of education and responsibility, but hasn't increased it's wages accordingly. The demands on EMS have exploded, but for the sake of budgets, EMS is expected to merely shoulder the burden. 12 or 14 calls a shift, shift after shift after shift wears you out, mentally and physically. EMS operates chronically shorthanded, and burns it's people out just at the point where they are getting really good. They move on to nursing, safety, fire, PA.....anywhere but EMS. Who in their right mind would sign up for this abuse for 1/3 the salary they could make doing something else? The first step...and I mean the first step only, is money. EMS systems need to be adequately staffed. If the call volume requires 8 units instead of the 4 currently utilized, it needs to happen. Using your field people up in 5 years instead of 10 is stupid, and more costly in the long run. You should be able to support a family, own a home and a couple of used cars, and take a vacation every year on the salary of a paramedic. It's not to much to ask, it really isn't. Can anybody do this on $10 an hour? Without working 80 hours a week? Here's your problem La Parte: Wanted, 1 person who has invested 2 years in education of the most complicated type, and has proven his ability countless times, willing to endure constant stress, be exposed to tragedy of the worst kind, harsh, dangerous conditions, willing to work a schedule that keeps you away from your family on holidays, weekends and special occasions, leaves you exhausted and unable to enjoy what time you do have off, and places your personal health at risk. When we are done with you, we are going to toss you aside without a second thought, and god forbid you get hurt doing all this....oh yeah, we are going to pay you less than we pay the garbage collectors and people who work at the utility office. This industry has many, many problems that have now come home to roost in terms of recruitment and retention. Like I said, the first baby step is money. Lots of jobs are stressful, and require long hours....but most of them compensate the people doing them well enough to attract people to the field. Nursing is one that at least pays OK, but there is still an acute nursing shortage, which should say something about the road ahead of EMS. We have proven our worth to the public and to the governmental agencies who we serve. We've done the things required of us in terms of increased education and professionalism. We've done our part. If the time is not now, when? If not us, then who? When I get back from Iraq, I'll be a bachelors degreed LP, with 7 years street experience, 5 of them in 2 of the highest performing systems in the state, and year of combat zone experience. What are you offering? I realize none of this is your fault, and you are only working within the limits of your system, but this is what you are up against. Good luck, Brown Camp Anaconda, Iraq > Does anyone out there have any comments or suggestions on how EMS is > going to remedy this paramedic shortage problem? > > The topic seems to be coming up more and more and we are definitely > feeling it here at LPEMS. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Solution? It's pretty simple.....money. The field of EMS does not compensate it's people enought to cover the investment in time of education, job stress, the effect on your life, etc. As a matter of fact, it's just this side of pathetic and insulting. This is a personal observation only, but I've been out of field EMS for a little over 5 months now, and despite the fact that I am working in a war zone, away from my family, and getting shelled, I'm happier than I've been in years in EMS. I love being a paramedic, and I love the people I work with, but the way the industry treats, and more importantly, pays it's people guarantees ultimate shortages, and endangers the idustry as a whole. Since it's inception, EMS has asked more and more of it's people in terms of education and responsibility, but hasn't increased it's wages accordingly. The demands on EMS have exploded, but for the sake of budgets, EMS is expected to merely shoulder the burden. 12 or 14 calls a shift, shift after shift after shift wears you out, mentally and physically. EMS operates chronically shorthanded, and burns it's people out just at the point where they are getting really good. They move on to nursing, safety, fire, PA.....anywhere but EMS. Who in their right mind would sign up for this abuse for 1/3 the salary they could make doing something else? The first step...and I mean the first step only, is money. EMS systems need to be adequately staffed. If the call volume requires 8 units instead of the 4 currently utilized, it needs to happen. Using your field people up in 5 years instead of 10 is stupid, and more costly in the long run. You should be able to support a family, own a home and a couple of used cars, and take a vacation every year on the salary of a paramedic. It's not to much to ask, it really isn't. Can anybody do this on $10 an hour? Without working 80 hours a week? Here's your problem La Parte: Wanted, 1 person who has invested 2 years in education of the most complicated type, and has proven his ability countless times, willing to endure constant stress, be exposed to tragedy of the worst kind, harsh, dangerous conditions, willing to work a schedule that keeps you away from your family on holidays, weekends and special occasions, leaves you exhausted and unable to enjoy what time you do have off, and places your personal health at risk. When we are done with you, we are going to toss you aside without a second thought, and god forbid you get hurt doing all this....oh yeah, we are going to pay you less than we pay the garbage collectors and people who work at the utility office. This industry has many, many problems that have now come home to roost in terms of recruitment and retention. Like I said, the first baby step is money. Lots of jobs are stressful, and require long hours....but most of them compensate the people doing them well enough to attract people to the field. Nursing is one that at least pays OK, but there is still an acute nursing shortage, which should say something about the road ahead of EMS. We have proven our worth to the public and to the governmental agencies who we serve. We've done the things required of us in terms of increased education and professionalism. We've done our part. If the time is not now, when? If not us, then who? When I get back from Iraq, I'll be a bachelors degreed LP, with 7 years street experience, 5 of them in 2 of the highest performing systems in the state, and year of combat zone experience. What are you offering? I realize none of this is your fault, and you are only working within the limits of your system, but this is what you are up against. Good luck, Brown Camp Anaconda, Iraq > Does anyone out there have any comments or suggestions on how EMS is > going to remedy this paramedic shortage problem? > > The topic seems to be coming up more and more and we are definitely > feeling it here at LPEMS. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Solution? It's pretty simple.....money. The field of EMS does not compensate it's people enought to cover the investment in time of education, job stress, the effect on your life, etc. As a matter of fact, it's just this side of pathetic and insulting. This is a personal observation only, but I've been out of field EMS for a little over 5 months now, and despite the fact that I am working in a war zone, away from my family, and getting shelled, I'm happier than I've been in years in EMS. I love being a paramedic, and I love the people I work with, but the way the industry treats, and more importantly, pays it's people guarantees ultimate shortages, and endangers the idustry as a whole. Since it's inception, EMS has asked more and more of it's people in terms of education and responsibility, but hasn't increased it's wages accordingly. The demands on EMS have exploded, but for the sake of budgets, EMS is expected to merely shoulder the burden. 12 or 14 calls a shift, shift after shift after shift wears you out, mentally and physically. EMS operates chronically shorthanded, and burns it's people out just at the point where they are getting really good. They move on to nursing, safety, fire, PA.....anywhere but EMS. Who in their right mind would sign up for this abuse for 1/3 the salary they could make doing something else? The first step...and I mean the first step only, is money. EMS systems need to be adequately staffed. If the call volume requires 8 units instead of the 4 currently utilized, it needs to happen. Using your field people up in 5 years instead of 10 is stupid, and more costly in the long run. You should be able to support a family, own a home and a couple of used cars, and take a vacation every year on the salary of a paramedic. It's not to much to ask, it really isn't. Can anybody do this on $10 an hour? Without working 80 hours a week? Here's your problem La Parte: Wanted, 1 person who has invested 2 years in education of the most complicated type, and has proven his ability countless times, willing to endure constant stress, be exposed to tragedy of the worst kind, harsh, dangerous conditions, willing to work a schedule that keeps you away from your family on holidays, weekends and special occasions, leaves you exhausted and unable to enjoy what time you do have off, and places your personal health at risk. When we are done with you, we are going to toss you aside without a second thought, and god forbid you get hurt doing all this....oh yeah, we are going to pay you less than we pay the garbage collectors and people who work at the utility office. This industry has many, many problems that have now come home to roost in terms of recruitment and retention. Like I said, the first baby step is money. Lots of jobs are stressful, and require long hours....but most of them compensate the people doing them well enough to attract people to the field. Nursing is one that at least pays OK, but there is still an acute nursing shortage, which should say something about the road ahead of EMS. We have proven our worth to the public and to the governmental agencies who we serve. We've done the things required of us in terms of increased education and professionalism. We've done our part. If the time is not now, when? If not us, then who? When I get back from Iraq, I'll be a bachelors degreed LP, with 7 years street experience, 5 of them in 2 of the highest performing systems in the state, and year of combat zone experience. What are you offering? I realize none of this is your fault, and you are only working within the limits of your system, but this is what you are up against. Good luck, Brown Camp Anaconda, Iraq > Does anyone out there have any comments or suggestions on how EMS is > going to remedy this paramedic shortage problem? > > The topic seems to be coming up more and more and we are definitely > feeling it here at LPEMS. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Yes I have a recommendation if I knew when I was 22 what I know now I would never have gotten out of the military even though I was serving in a combat zone in a high risk unit. So my suggestion is when it comes time reenlist and stay for 20 or 30 . After retirement you can look for those dangerous low paying civilian jobs with money to pad you over those low wages. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Re: Paramedic Shortage Solution? It's pretty simple.....money. The field of EMS does not compensate it's people enought to cover the investment in time of education, job stress, the effect on your life, etc. As a matter of fact, it's just this side of pathetic and insulting. This is a personal observation only, but I've been out of field EMS for a little over 5 months now, and despite the fact that I am working in a war zone, away from my family, and getting shelled, I'm happier than I've been in years in EMS. I love being a paramedic, and I love the people I work with, but the way the industry treats, and more importantly, pays it's people guarantees ultimate shortages, and endangers the idustry as a whole. Since it's inception, EMS has asked more and more of it's people in terms of education and responsibility, but hasn't increased it's wages accordingly. The demands on EMS have exploded, but for the sake of budgets, EMS is expected to merely shoulder the burden. 12 or 14 calls a shift, shift after shift after shift wears you out, mentally and physically. EMS operates chronically shorthanded, and burns it's people out just at the point where they are getting really good. They move on to nursing, safety, fire, PA.....anywhere but EMS. Who in their right mind would sign up for this abuse for 1/3 the salary they could make doing something else? The first step...and I mean the first step only, is money. EMS systems need to be adequately staffed. If the call volume requires 8 units instead of the 4 currently utilized, it needs to happen. Using your field people up in 5 years instead of 10 is stupid, and more costly in the long run. You should be able to support a family, own a home and a couple of used cars, and take a vacation every year on the salary of a paramedic. It's not to much to ask, it really isn't. Can anybody do this on $10 an hour? Without working 80 hours a week? Here's your problem La Parte: Wanted, 1 person who has invested 2 years in education of the most complicated type, and has proven his ability countless times, willing to endure constant stress, be exposed to tragedy of the worst kind, harsh, dangerous conditions, willing to work a schedule that keeps you away from your family on holidays, weekends and special occasions, leaves you exhausted and unable to enjoy what time you do have off, and places your personal health at risk. When we are done with you, we are going to toss you aside without a second thought, and god forbid you get hurt doing all this....oh yeah, we are going to pay you less than we pay the garbage collectors and people who work at the utility office. This industry has many, many problems that have now come home to roost in terms of recruitment and retention. Like I said, the first baby step is money. Lots of jobs are stressful, and require long hours....but most of them compensate the people doing them well enough to attract people to the field. Nursing is one that at least pays OK, but there is still an acute nursing shortage, which should say something about the road ahead of EMS. We have proven our worth to the public and to the governmental agencies who we serve. We've done the things required of us in terms of increased education and professionalism. We've done our part. If the time is not now, when? If not us, then who? When I get back from Iraq, I'll be a bachelors degreed LP, with 7 years street experience, 5 of them in 2 of the highest performing systems in the state, and year of combat zone experience. What are you offering? I realize none of this is your fault, and you are only working within the limits of your system, but this is what you are up against. Good luck, Brown Camp Anaconda, Iraq > Does anyone out there have any comments or suggestions on how EMS is > going to remedy this paramedic shortage problem? > > The topic seems to be coming up more and more and we are definitely > feeling it here at LPEMS. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Yes I have a recommendation if I knew when I was 22 what I know now I would never have gotten out of the military even though I was serving in a combat zone in a high risk unit. So my suggestion is when it comes time reenlist and stay for 20 or 30 . After retirement you can look for those dangerous low paying civilian jobs with money to pad you over those low wages. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Re: Paramedic Shortage Solution? It's pretty simple.....money. The field of EMS does not compensate it's people enought to cover the investment in time of education, job stress, the effect on your life, etc. As a matter of fact, it's just this side of pathetic and insulting. This is a personal observation only, but I've been out of field EMS for a little over 5 months now, and despite the fact that I am working in a war zone, away from my family, and getting shelled, I'm happier than I've been in years in EMS. I love being a paramedic, and I love the people I work with, but the way the industry treats, and more importantly, pays it's people guarantees ultimate shortages, and endangers the idustry as a whole. Since it's inception, EMS has asked more and more of it's people in terms of education and responsibility, but hasn't increased it's wages accordingly. The demands on EMS have exploded, but for the sake of budgets, EMS is expected to merely shoulder the burden. 12 or 14 calls a shift, shift after shift after shift wears you out, mentally and physically. EMS operates chronically shorthanded, and burns it's people out just at the point where they are getting really good. They move on to nursing, safety, fire, PA.....anywhere but EMS. Who in their right mind would sign up for this abuse for 1/3 the salary they could make doing something else? The first step...and I mean the first step only, is money. EMS systems need to be adequately staffed. If the call volume requires 8 units instead of the 4 currently utilized, it needs to happen. Using your field people up in 5 years instead of 10 is stupid, and more costly in the long run. You should be able to support a family, own a home and a couple of used cars, and take a vacation every year on the salary of a paramedic. It's not to much to ask, it really isn't. Can anybody do this on $10 an hour? Without working 80 hours a week? Here's your problem La Parte: Wanted, 1 person who has invested 2 years in education of the most complicated type, and has proven his ability countless times, willing to endure constant stress, be exposed to tragedy of the worst kind, harsh, dangerous conditions, willing to work a schedule that keeps you away from your family on holidays, weekends and special occasions, leaves you exhausted and unable to enjoy what time you do have off, and places your personal health at risk. When we are done with you, we are going to toss you aside without a second thought, and god forbid you get hurt doing all this....oh yeah, we are going to pay you less than we pay the garbage collectors and people who work at the utility office. This industry has many, many problems that have now come home to roost in terms of recruitment and retention. Like I said, the first baby step is money. Lots of jobs are stressful, and require long hours....but most of them compensate the people doing them well enough to attract people to the field. Nursing is one that at least pays OK, but there is still an acute nursing shortage, which should say something about the road ahead of EMS. We have proven our worth to the public and to the governmental agencies who we serve. We've done the things required of us in terms of increased education and professionalism. We've done our part. If the time is not now, when? If not us, then who? When I get back from Iraq, I'll be a bachelors degreed LP, with 7 years street experience, 5 of them in 2 of the highest performing systems in the state, and year of combat zone experience. What are you offering? I realize none of this is your fault, and you are only working within the limits of your system, but this is what you are up against. Good luck, Brown Camp Anaconda, Iraq > Does anyone out there have any comments or suggestions on how EMS is > going to remedy this paramedic shortage problem? > > The topic seems to be coming up more and more and we are definitely > feeling it here at LPEMS. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Yes I have a recommendation if I knew when I was 22 what I know now I would never have gotten out of the military even though I was serving in a combat zone in a high risk unit. So my suggestion is when it comes time reenlist and stay for 20 or 30 . After retirement you can look for those dangerous low paying civilian jobs with money to pad you over those low wages. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Re: Paramedic Shortage Solution? It's pretty simple.....money. The field of EMS does not compensate it's people enought to cover the investment in time of education, job stress, the effect on your life, etc. As a matter of fact, it's just this side of pathetic and insulting. This is a personal observation only, but I've been out of field EMS for a little over 5 months now, and despite the fact that I am working in a war zone, away from my family, and getting shelled, I'm happier than I've been in years in EMS. I love being a paramedic, and I love the people I work with, but the way the industry treats, and more importantly, pays it's people guarantees ultimate shortages, and endangers the idustry as a whole. Since it's inception, EMS has asked more and more of it's people in terms of education and responsibility, but hasn't increased it's wages accordingly. The demands on EMS have exploded, but for the sake of budgets, EMS is expected to merely shoulder the burden. 12 or 14 calls a shift, shift after shift after shift wears you out, mentally and physically. EMS operates chronically shorthanded, and burns it's people out just at the point where they are getting really good. They move on to nursing, safety, fire, PA.....anywhere but EMS. Who in their right mind would sign up for this abuse for 1/3 the salary they could make doing something else? The first step...and I mean the first step only, is money. EMS systems need to be adequately staffed. If the call volume requires 8 units instead of the 4 currently utilized, it needs to happen. Using your field people up in 5 years instead of 10 is stupid, and more costly in the long run. You should be able to support a family, own a home and a couple of used cars, and take a vacation every year on the salary of a paramedic. It's not to much to ask, it really isn't. Can anybody do this on $10 an hour? Without working 80 hours a week? Here's your problem La Parte: Wanted, 1 person who has invested 2 years in education of the most complicated type, and has proven his ability countless times, willing to endure constant stress, be exposed to tragedy of the worst kind, harsh, dangerous conditions, willing to work a schedule that keeps you away from your family on holidays, weekends and special occasions, leaves you exhausted and unable to enjoy what time you do have off, and places your personal health at risk. When we are done with you, we are going to toss you aside without a second thought, and god forbid you get hurt doing all this....oh yeah, we are going to pay you less than we pay the garbage collectors and people who work at the utility office. This industry has many, many problems that have now come home to roost in terms of recruitment and retention. Like I said, the first baby step is money. Lots of jobs are stressful, and require long hours....but most of them compensate the people doing them well enough to attract people to the field. Nursing is one that at least pays OK, but there is still an acute nursing shortage, which should say something about the road ahead of EMS. We have proven our worth to the public and to the governmental agencies who we serve. We've done the things required of us in terms of increased education and professionalism. We've done our part. If the time is not now, when? If not us, then who? When I get back from Iraq, I'll be a bachelors degreed LP, with 7 years street experience, 5 of them in 2 of the highest performing systems in the state, and year of combat zone experience. What are you offering? I realize none of this is your fault, and you are only working within the limits of your system, but this is what you are up against. Good luck, Brown Camp Anaconda, Iraq > Does anyone out there have any comments or suggestions on how EMS is > going to remedy this paramedic shortage problem? > > The topic seems to be coming up more and more and we are definitely > feeling it here at LPEMS. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 I first started out 8 yrs ago and worked for minimum wage. (Yeah, I got into it for the money!) We would save a pt in an MVA rollover and then order our food from someone who made more than us, it made me stop and think what's wrong with this picture. The owner bought new ambulances every 2-3 yrs but gave no evals or raises, " trucks stay, people come and go " . He paid 13 hours out of 24. It was common to work 48 hours at an ER station, then 8-10 on a backup truck the third day, all to make ends meet. It is frustrating to go to a hospital and see all kinds of incompetant nurses making way more than you are and not even thinking on their own. They push valium too fast (10mg & 10cc flush in less than 2 min.) on a patient on methadone, a Hx of IV drug abuse, and COPD, then ask if they have orders for NARCAN to reverse it. You give report to one on the TELEMETRY floor saying the patient is in accelerated junctional rhythm with PVCs and they don't know what that is. From a nurse at a level 4 trauma hospital: We can't take that assault patient (with an abrasion on his cheek), he needs a Trauma Center. They call us ambulance drivers when I can run a code without an MD, RT, or other RNs. I don't have to call an MD to put a pt on more than 2 LPM O2, start IVs, intubate, chest needle decompress, needle cric, etc. There is just a lack of respect because they don't know what we can do. Just like MDs have to do an ambulance rotation, so should nurses. I've had one who wanted to ride with her friend to the hospital. " Can I start the IV? " , she asked. After 3 tries with 22 ga. caths, I take over and get an 18 in the hand. " But we were moving " she says. Welcome to my world. My favorite joke - What is the scariest thing you can hear on scene? I'll help, I'm a nurse. Some of it is brought on by ourselves with medics and services that have no business in this business. You have to love what you do and the pts, if you don't, get out. Be professional in all that you do because it not only reflects on you but the whole EMS community. I go back to the comment I made before, you should have to work your way up to Paramedic, instead of being able to go straight through. Going from O2, bandaging and splinting to running an MCI or hypotensive CHF with no experience is difficult for most people. Work at each level until you are comfortable. There is a medic who looks up each call in their personal protocol book on the way to the call. They panicked because " ARREST " wasn't in there. Ok, I've vented. There is just so much that needs to be done in this field to raise our pay and status. Where do we begin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 I first started out 8 yrs ago and worked for minimum wage. (Yeah, I got into it for the money!) We would save a pt in an MVA rollover and then order our food from someone who made more than us, it made me stop and think what's wrong with this picture. The owner bought new ambulances every 2-3 yrs but gave no evals or raises, " trucks stay, people come and go " . He paid 13 hours out of 24. It was common to work 48 hours at an ER station, then 8-10 on a backup truck the third day, all to make ends meet. It is frustrating to go to a hospital and see all kinds of incompetant nurses making way more than you are and not even thinking on their own. They push valium too fast (10mg & 10cc flush in less than 2 min.) on a patient on methadone, a Hx of IV drug abuse, and COPD, then ask if they have orders for NARCAN to reverse it. You give report to one on the TELEMETRY floor saying the patient is in accelerated junctional rhythm with PVCs and they don't know what that is. From a nurse at a level 4 trauma hospital: We can't take that assault patient (with an abrasion on his cheek), he needs a Trauma Center. They call us ambulance drivers when I can run a code without an MD, RT, or other RNs. I don't have to call an MD to put a pt on more than 2 LPM O2, start IVs, intubate, chest needle decompress, needle cric, etc. There is just a lack of respect because they don't know what we can do. Just like MDs have to do an ambulance rotation, so should nurses. I've had one who wanted to ride with her friend to the hospital. " Can I start the IV? " , she asked. After 3 tries with 22 ga. caths, I take over and get an 18 in the hand. " But we were moving " she says. Welcome to my world. My favorite joke - What is the scariest thing you can hear on scene? I'll help, I'm a nurse. Some of it is brought on by ourselves with medics and services that have no business in this business. You have to love what you do and the pts, if you don't, get out. Be professional in all that you do because it not only reflects on you but the whole EMS community. I go back to the comment I made before, you should have to work your way up to Paramedic, instead of being able to go straight through. Going from O2, bandaging and splinting to running an MCI or hypotensive CHF with no experience is difficult for most people. Work at each level until you are comfortable. There is a medic who looks up each call in their personal protocol book on the way to the call. They panicked because " ARREST " wasn't in there. Ok, I've vented. There is just so much that needs to be done in this field to raise our pay and status. Where do we begin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Maybe I don't have enough vision, but as I read the draft National Scope of Practice (NSOP) I can't see how this will create a bigger shortage or tie our hands. There will still be training programs turning out certified EMTs and paramedics who do exactly what they are currently doing. What I read was an attempt to finally establish a minimum national standard for each level of provider across the country. I see a document that will create (as the name implies) an offical scope of practice, something we don't currently have. I see a document that will create an additional level of provider that could significantly impact (for the better) the ability to provide healthcare in traditionally underserved areas. I know some folks are concerned that this document will prevent EMS medical directors from including certain skills in their local protocols. That simply isn't the case. What the document is saying is that if your medical director wants to include open heart surgery in your area, he has to understand that it is not considered part of the scope of practice for EMS personnel. Then if he wants to do it anyway, he assumes the responsibility for the training and any liability that goes along with it (as he does now.) Establishing a National Scope of Practice will not hurt our profession, contribute to the shortage of paramedics, or severly limit the control of EMS systems by medical directors. There will be even a bigger shortage is this EMS scope of practice is allowed to become a reality, because it will not only cause a bigger shortage, but will tie our hands as EMS personnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Maybe I don't have enough vision, but as I read the draft National Scope of Practice (NSOP) I can't see how this will create a bigger shortage or tie our hands. There will still be training programs turning out certified EMTs and paramedics who do exactly what they are currently doing. What I read was an attempt to finally establish a minimum national standard for each level of provider across the country. I see a document that will create (as the name implies) an offical scope of practice, something we don't currently have. I see a document that will create an additional level of provider that could significantly impact (for the better) the ability to provide healthcare in traditionally underserved areas. I know some folks are concerned that this document will prevent EMS medical directors from including certain skills in their local protocols. That simply isn't the case. What the document is saying is that if your medical director wants to include open heart surgery in your area, he has to understand that it is not considered part of the scope of practice for EMS personnel. Then if he wants to do it anyway, he assumes the responsibility for the training and any liability that goes along with it (as he does now.) Establishing a National Scope of Practice will not hurt our profession, contribute to the shortage of paramedics, or severly limit the control of EMS systems by medical directors. There will be even a bigger shortage is this EMS scope of practice is allowed to become a reality, because it will not only cause a bigger shortage, but will tie our hands as EMS personnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Some associates and I were just talking about the pay problem in EMS the other day. I feel fortunate to be, at present, working for a municipality, where the money situation is not grave at the present. However, I have been employed in the private sector before, and have many friends who still are employed there. The NR has been a real problem for us here at the fire department in Corpus, although we have ended up with some good results in testing the last two academies after all was said and done. As far as the paramedic shortage, I agree with the gentleman who said it in one word. Money. The two, I believe, go hand in hand. Where I am going with that is this statement: The NR may be the best thing that ever happened to EMS in Texas- from a MONEY standpoint. Before you all get out the tar and feathers, think about it. Someone mentioned the nursing shortage. Sure. Because nursing is a crappy job that nobody wanted. The doctors were always down your throat, long hours, difficult supervisors, etc, etc. When I was a tech at one of the local hospitals in the 1988 ish time frame, they started nurses in ICU at 12.00/hr plus shift dif and 1.00 per hour if they were ACLS certified, but the BASE was 12.00/hr. The hospitals had to have more nurses, and so the facilities threw money at the problem. Now, starting pay in ER is what, around 22- 25 per hour, in some cases as much as 30 or 35 per hour (flex). The problem in EMS is that people would/will work for the $8-10/ hour range. How many of us are working the trucks for 20-25K a year? ( I am talking about BASE, not the extra money that you make on overtime, working the 80 hour week to make 30K per year.) The gentleman from La Porte is offering 34,000/ year to start, (not bad money) and is having a hard time attracting people to work for him because of the paramedic shortage. Just theoretical, but if his post said, say, 40K per year STARTING pay, how many of us would have him on speed dial? And as more people went to La Porte and left the job they have now, the other employers would have a choice. Run basic level service only, or offer say, 42K per year, to attract the red patches back or just to retain. And so on and so on. JUST LIKE THE HOSPITALS are having to do with the nurses. As the NR makes getting paramedic certification harder, and the shortage becomes more severe, (which is inevitable for the next several years), the pay scale will have to go up. Pay more than the other guy, and the paramedics will beat a path to your door. (Just like the better mouse trap) Sure, enough, I was told just last week a local (private) service has begun operations and is starting paramedics at 15/hr.(Base) I would have loved to have that kind of money in 1988 when I started as a tech for the hospital at 7.00/hr. Hmmm. Maybe this NR thing isnt so bad after all (sic) Okay, I am ready for the tar and feathers. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Some associates and I were just talking about the pay problem in EMS the other day. I feel fortunate to be, at present, working for a municipality, where the money situation is not grave at the present. However, I have been employed in the private sector before, and have many friends who still are employed there. The NR has been a real problem for us here at the fire department in Corpus, although we have ended up with some good results in testing the last two academies after all was said and done. As far as the paramedic shortage, I agree with the gentleman who said it in one word. Money. The two, I believe, go hand in hand. Where I am going with that is this statement: The NR may be the best thing that ever happened to EMS in Texas- from a MONEY standpoint. Before you all get out the tar and feathers, think about it. Someone mentioned the nursing shortage. Sure. Because nursing is a crappy job that nobody wanted. The doctors were always down your throat, long hours, difficult supervisors, etc, etc. When I was a tech at one of the local hospitals in the 1988 ish time frame, they started nurses in ICU at 12.00/hr plus shift dif and 1.00 per hour if they were ACLS certified, but the BASE was 12.00/hr. The hospitals had to have more nurses, and so the facilities threw money at the problem. Now, starting pay in ER is what, around 22- 25 per hour, in some cases as much as 30 or 35 per hour (flex). The problem in EMS is that people would/will work for the $8-10/ hour range. How many of us are working the trucks for 20-25K a year? ( I am talking about BASE, not the extra money that you make on overtime, working the 80 hour week to make 30K per year.) The gentleman from La Porte is offering 34,000/ year to start, (not bad money) and is having a hard time attracting people to work for him because of the paramedic shortage. Just theoretical, but if his post said, say, 40K per year STARTING pay, how many of us would have him on speed dial? And as more people went to La Porte and left the job they have now, the other employers would have a choice. Run basic level service only, or offer say, 42K per year, to attract the red patches back or just to retain. And so on and so on. JUST LIKE THE HOSPITALS are having to do with the nurses. As the NR makes getting paramedic certification harder, and the shortage becomes more severe, (which is inevitable for the next several years), the pay scale will have to go up. Pay more than the other guy, and the paramedics will beat a path to your door. (Just like the better mouse trap) Sure, enough, I was told just last week a local (private) service has begun operations and is starting paramedics at 15/hr.(Base) I would have loved to have that kind of money in 1988 when I started as a tech for the hospital at 7.00/hr. Hmmm. Maybe this NR thing isnt so bad after all (sic) Okay, I am ready for the tar and feathers. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Some associates and I were just talking about the pay problem in EMS the other day. I feel fortunate to be, at present, working for a municipality, where the money situation is not grave at the present. However, I have been employed in the private sector before, and have many friends who still are employed there. The NR has been a real problem for us here at the fire department in Corpus, although we have ended up with some good results in testing the last two academies after all was said and done. As far as the paramedic shortage, I agree with the gentleman who said it in one word. Money. The two, I believe, go hand in hand. Where I am going with that is this statement: The NR may be the best thing that ever happened to EMS in Texas- from a MONEY standpoint. Before you all get out the tar and feathers, think about it. Someone mentioned the nursing shortage. Sure. Because nursing is a crappy job that nobody wanted. The doctors were always down your throat, long hours, difficult supervisors, etc, etc. When I was a tech at one of the local hospitals in the 1988 ish time frame, they started nurses in ICU at 12.00/hr plus shift dif and 1.00 per hour if they were ACLS certified, but the BASE was 12.00/hr. The hospitals had to have more nurses, and so the facilities threw money at the problem. Now, starting pay in ER is what, around 22- 25 per hour, in some cases as much as 30 or 35 per hour (flex). The problem in EMS is that people would/will work for the $8-10/ hour range. How many of us are working the trucks for 20-25K a year? ( I am talking about BASE, not the extra money that you make on overtime, working the 80 hour week to make 30K per year.) The gentleman from La Porte is offering 34,000/ year to start, (not bad money) and is having a hard time attracting people to work for him because of the paramedic shortage. Just theoretical, but if his post said, say, 40K per year STARTING pay, how many of us would have him on speed dial? And as more people went to La Porte and left the job they have now, the other employers would have a choice. Run basic level service only, or offer say, 42K per year, to attract the red patches back or just to retain. And so on and so on. JUST LIKE THE HOSPITALS are having to do with the nurses. As the NR makes getting paramedic certification harder, and the shortage becomes more severe, (which is inevitable for the next several years), the pay scale will have to go up. Pay more than the other guy, and the paramedics will beat a path to your door. (Just like the better mouse trap) Sure, enough, I was told just last week a local (private) service has begun operations and is starting paramedics at 15/hr.(Base) I would have loved to have that kind of money in 1988 when I started as a tech for the hospital at 7.00/hr. Hmmm. Maybe this NR thing isnt so bad after all (sic) Okay, I am ready for the tar and feathers. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 No offense Kenny but the providers and the educator opinion of how this will affect us certainly will be different. National Registry was supposed to help us but hasn't. The only folks this will help is the folks that have a vested interest in future training and testing for that training. It will create a dumbing down effect so that those areas that do more for their patients due to their area needs will have to dumb down to the areas that are doing very little. It will be no real stretch for the latter to meet this minimum. We already have to much regulation as it is. The Medical Directors already know their butt is on the line. Texas needs take care of business as they always have and quit worring about what the other guy is doing. If anyone is interested in kicking National Registry out of the house, I will hold open the door. Henry Kenny Navarro wrote: > Maybe I don't have enough vision, but as I read the draft National > Scope of Practice (NSOP) I can't see how this will create a bigger > shortage or tie our hands. > > There will still be training programs turning out certified EMTs and > paramedics who do exactly what they are currently doing. > > What I read was an attempt to finally establish a minimum national > standard for each level of provider across the country. I see a > document that will create (as the name implies) an offical scope of > practice, something we don't currently have. I see a document that > will create an additional level of provider that could significantly > impact (for the better) the ability to provide healthcare in > traditionally underserved areas. > > I know some folks are concerned that this document will prevent EMS > medical directors from including certain skills in their local > protocols. That simply isn't the case. What the document is saying > is that if your medical director wants to include open heart surgery > in your area, he has to understand that it is not considered part of > the scope of practice for EMS personnel. Then if he wants to do it > anyway, he assumes the responsibility for the training and any > liability that goes along with it (as he does now.) > > Establishing a National Scope of Practice will not hurt our > profession, contribute to the shortage of paramedics, or severly > limit the control of EMS systems by medical directors. > > > > There will be even a bigger shortage is this EMS scope of practice > is allowed to become a reality, because it will not only cause a > bigger shortage, but will tie our hands as EMS personnel. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 As I understand it, if you go beyond the " Scope of Practice " you will be held criminally accountable for your actions. Lee Re: Re: Paramedic Shortage No offense Kenny but the providers and the educator opinion of how this will affect us certainly will be different. National Registry was supposed to help us but hasn't. The only folks this will help is the folks that have a vested interest in future training and testing for that training. It will create a dumbing down effect so that those areas that do more for their patients due to their area needs will have to dumb down to the areas that are doing very little. It will be no real stretch for the latter to meet this minimum. We already have to much regulation as it is. The Medical Directors already know their butt is on the line. Texas needs take care of business as they always have and quit worring about what the other guy is doing. If anyone is interested in kicking National Registry out of the house, I will hold open the door. Henry Kenny Navarro wrote: > Maybe I don't have enough vision, but as I read the draft National > Scope of Practice (NSOP) I can't see how this will create a bigger > shortage or tie our hands. > > There will still be training programs turning out certified EMTs and > paramedics who do exactly what they are currently doing. > > What I read was an attempt to finally establish a minimum national > standard for each level of provider across the country. I see a > document that will create (as the name implies) an offical scope of > practice, something we don't currently have. I see a document that > will create an additional level of provider that could significantly > impact (for the better) the ability to provide healthcare in > traditionally underserved areas. > > I know some folks are concerned that this document will prevent EMS > medical directors from including certain skills in their local > protocols. That simply isn't the case. What the document is saying > is that if your medical director wants to include open heart surgery > in your area, he has to understand that it is not considered part of > the scope of practice for EMS personnel. Then if he wants to do it > anyway, he assumes the responsibility for the training and any > liability that goes along with it (as he does now.) > > Establishing a National Scope of Practice will not hurt our > profession, contribute to the shortage of paramedics, or severly > limit the control of EMS systems by medical directors. > > > > There will be even a bigger shortage is this EMS scope of practice > is allowed to become a reality, because it will not only cause a > bigger shortage, but will tie our hands as EMS personnel. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 As I understand it, if you go beyond the " Scope of Practice " you will be held criminally accountable for your actions. Lee Re: Re: Paramedic Shortage No offense Kenny but the providers and the educator opinion of how this will affect us certainly will be different. National Registry was supposed to help us but hasn't. The only folks this will help is the folks that have a vested interest in future training and testing for that training. It will create a dumbing down effect so that those areas that do more for their patients due to their area needs will have to dumb down to the areas that are doing very little. It will be no real stretch for the latter to meet this minimum. We already have to much regulation as it is. The Medical Directors already know their butt is on the line. Texas needs take care of business as they always have and quit worring about what the other guy is doing. If anyone is interested in kicking National Registry out of the house, I will hold open the door. Henry Kenny Navarro wrote: > Maybe I don't have enough vision, but as I read the draft National > Scope of Practice (NSOP) I can't see how this will create a bigger > shortage or tie our hands. > > There will still be training programs turning out certified EMTs and > paramedics who do exactly what they are currently doing. > > What I read was an attempt to finally establish a minimum national > standard for each level of provider across the country. I see a > document that will create (as the name implies) an offical scope of > practice, something we don't currently have. I see a document that > will create an additional level of provider that could significantly > impact (for the better) the ability to provide healthcare in > traditionally underserved areas. > > I know some folks are concerned that this document will prevent EMS > medical directors from including certain skills in their local > protocols. That simply isn't the case. What the document is saying > is that if your medical director wants to include open heart surgery > in your area, he has to understand that it is not considered part of > the scope of practice for EMS personnel. Then if he wants to do it > anyway, he assumes the responsibility for the training and any > liability that goes along with it (as he does now.) > > Establishing a National Scope of Practice will not hurt our > profession, contribute to the shortage of paramedics, or severly > limit the control of EMS systems by medical directors. > > > > There will be even a bigger shortage is this EMS scope of practice > is allowed to become a reality, because it will not only cause a > bigger shortage, but will tie our hands as EMS personnel. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 As I understand it, if you go beyond the " Scope of Practice " you will be held criminally accountable for your actions. Lee Re: Re: Paramedic Shortage No offense Kenny but the providers and the educator opinion of how this will affect us certainly will be different. National Registry was supposed to help us but hasn't. The only folks this will help is the folks that have a vested interest in future training and testing for that training. It will create a dumbing down effect so that those areas that do more for their patients due to their area needs will have to dumb down to the areas that are doing very little. It will be no real stretch for the latter to meet this minimum. We already have to much regulation as it is. The Medical Directors already know their butt is on the line. Texas needs take care of business as they always have and quit worring about what the other guy is doing. If anyone is interested in kicking National Registry out of the house, I will hold open the door. Henry Kenny Navarro wrote: > Maybe I don't have enough vision, but as I read the draft National > Scope of Practice (NSOP) I can't see how this will create a bigger > shortage or tie our hands. > > There will still be training programs turning out certified EMTs and > paramedics who do exactly what they are currently doing. > > What I read was an attempt to finally establish a minimum national > standard for each level of provider across the country. I see a > document that will create (as the name implies) an offical scope of > practice, something we don't currently have. I see a document that > will create an additional level of provider that could significantly > impact (for the better) the ability to provide healthcare in > traditionally underserved areas. > > I know some folks are concerned that this document will prevent EMS > medical directors from including certain skills in their local > protocols. That simply isn't the case. What the document is saying > is that if your medical director wants to include open heart surgery > in your area, he has to understand that it is not considered part of > the scope of practice for EMS personnel. Then if he wants to do it > anyway, he assumes the responsibility for the training and any > liability that goes along with it (as he does now.) > > Establishing a National Scope of Practice will not hurt our > profession, contribute to the shortage of paramedics, or severly > limit the control of EMS systems by medical directors. > > > > There will be even a bigger shortage is this EMS scope of practice > is allowed to become a reality, because it will not only cause a > bigger shortage, but will tie our hands as EMS personnel. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 how about a union for ems? how about a strike? something to show that ems personnel are serious in what we believe in. __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 how about a union for ems? how about a strike? something to show that ems personnel are serious in what we believe in. __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 > As the NR makes getting paramedic certification harder, and the > shortage becomes more severe, (which is inevitable for the next > several years), the pay scale will have to go up. Is NR really making it " harder, " in an educational sense, to become certified? Or is it merely making it more complicated in an administrative sense? Food for thought. > how about a union for ems? how about a strike? something to > show that ems personnel are serious in what we believe in. Great idea. What better way to show the public that we are nothing more than uneducated labourers instead of educated professionals? Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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