Re: Thoughts and concerns on Enrique: PLEASE READ!

[Guest guest]

Salli,

It does seem that Enrique's sessions with Dr. Kaye are causing undue anxiety

rather than alleviating it. That doesn't seem to be productive.

It's a never-ending battle isn't it?

Perhaps you should try someone new. Doesn't Enrique relate better to females

anyway? Perhaps with a female therapist he'd feel less intimidated?

Just a hunch ...

Sissi

[Guest guest]

Salli,

It does seem that Enrique's sessions with Dr. Kaye are causing undue anxiety

rather than alleviating it. That doesn't seem to be productive.

It's a never-ending battle isn't it?

Perhaps you should try someone new. Doesn't Enrique relate better to females

anyway? Perhaps with a female therapist he'd feel less intimidated?

Just a hunch ...

Sissi

[Guest guest]

Salli,

It does seem that Enrique's sessions with Dr. Kaye are causing undue anxiety

rather than alleviating it. That doesn't seem to be productive.

It's a never-ending battle isn't it?

Perhaps you should try someone new. Doesn't Enrique relate better to females

anyway? Perhaps with a female therapist he'd feel less intimidated?

Just a hunch ...

Sissi

[Guest guest]

> > I explained to Dr. Kaye that Putter had autism and a very limited diet

and we were working on it, but, honestly, it was clear to me that Dr. Kaye

was not particularly interested in the subject. <

>

>

> ok, this got me. if this dr does not care about putter's autism, how could

he possibly care about enrique's?

>

No, that isn't what I meant, Dr. Kaye was not particularly interested in

discussing Putter, autistic or otherwise, except possibly how Putter

affected Enrique.

Sorry, that was unclear.

Salli

[Guest guest]

> > I explained to Dr. Kaye that Putter had autism and a very limited diet

and we were working on it, but, honestly, it was clear to me that Dr. Kaye

was not particularly interested in the subject. <

>

>

> ok, this got me. if this dr does not care about putter's autism, how could

he possibly care about enrique's?

>

No, that isn't what I meant, Dr. Kaye was not particularly interested in

discussing Putter, autistic or otherwise, except possibly how Putter

affected Enrique.

Sorry, that was unclear.

Salli

[Guest guest]

> > I explained to Dr. Kaye that Putter had autism and a very limited diet

and we were working on it, but, honestly, it was clear to me that Dr. Kaye

was not particularly interested in the subject. <

>

>

> ok, this got me. if this dr does not care about putter's autism, how could

he possibly care about enrique's?

>

No, that isn't what I meant, Dr. Kaye was not particularly interested in

discussing Putter, autistic or otherwise, except possibly how Putter

affected Enrique.

Sorry, that was unclear.

Salli

[Guest guest]

>

> ok, sorry i misunderstood

>

Now I was taught that if something written is unclear it is virtually always

the writer's fault.

How can it be the reader's fault? The reader only reads what is there.

Salli

[Guest guest]

>

> ok, sorry i misunderstood

>

Now I was taught that if something written is unclear it is virtually always

the writer's fault.

How can it be the reader's fault? The reader only reads what is there.

Salli

[Guest guest]

>

> ok, sorry i misunderstood

>

Now I was taught that if something written is unclear it is virtually always

the writer's fault.

How can it be the reader's fault? The reader only reads what is there.

Salli

[Guest guest]

> It does seem that Enrique's sessions with Dr. Kaye are causing undue

anxiety

> rather than alleviating it.

Yes.

That doesn't seem to be productive.

No. And I have to be able to survive his therapy visits too. Although no

doubt Dr. Kaye would just consider that I lack general strong mindedness.

>

> It's a never-ending battle isn't it?

Yes.

>

> Perhaps you should try someone new. Doesn't Enrique relate better to

females

> anyway? Perhaps with a female therapist he'd feel less intimidated?

>

Well, he does pretty well with Putter's Dr. Warner. Dr. Kaye is with the

school system and he is free which was great.

Oh, well.

Salli

[Guest guest]

> It does seem that Enrique's sessions with Dr. Kaye are causing undue

anxiety

> rather than alleviating it.

Yes.

That doesn't seem to be productive.

No. And I have to be able to survive his therapy visits too. Although no

doubt Dr. Kaye would just consider that I lack general strong mindedness.

>

> It's a never-ending battle isn't it?

Yes.

>

> Perhaps you should try someone new. Doesn't Enrique relate better to

females

> anyway? Perhaps with a female therapist he'd feel less intimidated?

>

Well, he does pretty well with Putter's Dr. Warner. Dr. Kaye is with the

school system and he is free which was great.

Oh, well.

Salli

[Guest guest]

> It does seem that Enrique's sessions with Dr. Kaye are causing undue

anxiety

> rather than alleviating it.

Yes.

That doesn't seem to be productive.

No. And I have to be able to survive his therapy visits too. Although no

doubt Dr. Kaye would just consider that I lack general strong mindedness.

>

> It's a never-ending battle isn't it?

Yes.

>

> Perhaps you should try someone new. Doesn't Enrique relate better to

females

> anyway? Perhaps with a female therapist he'd feel less intimidated?

>

Well, he does pretty well with Putter's Dr. Warner. Dr. Kaye is with the

school system and he is free which was great.

Oh, well.

Salli

[Guest guest]

> A) Does Dr. Kaye know that Enrique has panic attacks before and after

> seeing him?

No.

It sounds to me like he may be pushing Enrique to work through

> some fears and perhaps he is pushing too hard. Perhaps he thinks his

initial

> " power of thought " appts. were sufficient and does not realize what great

> difficulty Enrique is having now?

Maybe. Silly man.

>

> Is your information about what's going on in the sessions coming from

> Enrique, Dr. Kaye, both? If only from Enrique, perhaps he is focusing

hard

> on the parts of the sessions that worry him the most, when possibly they

are

> really only a small part of the sessions?

Now this is quite possible. I'll check into that.

I really don't know, but the way

> he over-reacted to the Putter food issue makes me wonder of his anxiety is

> magnifying other parts of other sessions as well. It is entirely possible

> that it seems to him these are long and agonizing discussions when they

> might seem to us to be very short, " Have you thought about _____? " or

> possibly even, " So how's school? " kinds of things.

>

> Really, it could go either way - Dr. Kaye pushing too hard or Enrique

> magnifying small things - or a combonation - or of course I could be

totally

> off the mark.

No, I think you may be on to something.

>

> I would make my own appt with Dr. Kaye, perhaps taking Enrique's next

> scheduled slot to spare him that anxiety IF it would not make going back

> next time worse, and talk about all of this and see what he has to say.

Great idea. I have asked , the autism teacher consultant who is

totally on the same page with me to look into it.

If

> you and Enrique want him working on the panic attacks that is what he

should

> be doing, not causing him to have more of them. It would be well if

Enrique

> could bring these things up himself, but I do not think that it sounds

like

> Enrique could do that right now.

Oh, boy, he sure can't. I have to guess what is wrong as he won't tell me

although he will let me know if I am right or wrong (gee, thanks, Enrique!)

Baby steps.

>

Premie baby steps.

> If you decide to continue with him, I might ask him about audio- or

> video-taping the sessions so that you can watch them and help Enrique to

> interpret the situations. Enrique might be surprised by what you can

point

> out to him and it could be a very good lesson in social skills and

> people-reading for him.

This is totally brilliant. I do not have a video camera though. That would

be optimal, I think.

It seems like you and Enrique are close enough that

> Enrique would not have a problem with you knowing what he is saying in his

> sessions. But he is a teenager so I may be wrong.

>

I am quite good at understanding Enrique.

Thanks, Sara!

Salli

[Guest guest]

> A) Does Dr. Kaye know that Enrique has panic attacks before and after

> seeing him?

No.

It sounds to me like he may be pushing Enrique to work through

> some fears and perhaps he is pushing too hard. Perhaps he thinks his

initial

> " power of thought " appts. were sufficient and does not realize what great

> difficulty Enrique is having now?

Maybe. Silly man.

>

> Is your information about what's going on in the sessions coming from

> Enrique, Dr. Kaye, both? If only from Enrique, perhaps he is focusing

hard

> on the parts of the sessions that worry him the most, when possibly they

are

> really only a small part of the sessions?

Now this is quite possible. I'll check into that.

I really don't know, but the way

> he over-reacted to the Putter food issue makes me wonder of his anxiety is

> magnifying other parts of other sessions as well. It is entirely possible

> that it seems to him these are long and agonizing discussions when they

> might seem to us to be very short, " Have you thought about _____? " or

> possibly even, " So how's school? " kinds of things.

>

> Really, it could go either way - Dr. Kaye pushing too hard or Enrique

> magnifying small things - or a combonation - or of course I could be

totally

> off the mark.

No, I think you may be on to something.

>

> I would make my own appt with Dr. Kaye, perhaps taking Enrique's next

> scheduled slot to spare him that anxiety IF it would not make going back

> next time worse, and talk about all of this and see what he has to say.

Great idea. I have asked , the autism teacher consultant who is

totally on the same page with me to look into it.

If

> you and Enrique want him working on the panic attacks that is what he

should

> be doing, not causing him to have more of them. It would be well if

Enrique

> could bring these things up himself, but I do not think that it sounds

like

> Enrique could do that right now.

Oh, boy, he sure can't. I have to guess what is wrong as he won't tell me

although he will let me know if I am right or wrong (gee, thanks, Enrique!)

Baby steps.

>

Premie baby steps.

> If you decide to continue with him, I might ask him about audio- or

> video-taping the sessions so that you can watch them and help Enrique to

> interpret the situations. Enrique might be surprised by what you can

point

> out to him and it could be a very good lesson in social skills and

> people-reading for him.

This is totally brilliant. I do not have a video camera though. That would

be optimal, I think.

It seems like you and Enrique are close enough that

> Enrique would not have a problem with you knowing what he is saying in his

> sessions. But he is a teenager so I may be wrong.

>

I am quite good at understanding Enrique.

Thanks, Sara!

Salli

[Guest guest]

> A) Does Dr. Kaye know that Enrique has panic attacks before and after

> seeing him?

No.

It sounds to me like he may be pushing Enrique to work through

> some fears and perhaps he is pushing too hard. Perhaps he thinks his

initial

> " power of thought " appts. were sufficient and does not realize what great

> difficulty Enrique is having now?

Maybe. Silly man.

>

> Is your information about what's going on in the sessions coming from

> Enrique, Dr. Kaye, both? If only from Enrique, perhaps he is focusing

hard

> on the parts of the sessions that worry him the most, when possibly they

are

> really only a small part of the sessions?

Now this is quite possible. I'll check into that.

I really don't know, but the way

> he over-reacted to the Putter food issue makes me wonder of his anxiety is

> magnifying other parts of other sessions as well. It is entirely possible

> that it seems to him these are long and agonizing discussions when they

> might seem to us to be very short, " Have you thought about _____? " or

> possibly even, " So how's school? " kinds of things.

>

> Really, it could go either way - Dr. Kaye pushing too hard or Enrique

> magnifying small things - or a combonation - or of course I could be

totally

> off the mark.

No, I think you may be on to something.

>

> I would make my own appt with Dr. Kaye, perhaps taking Enrique's next

> scheduled slot to spare him that anxiety IF it would not make going back

> next time worse, and talk about all of this and see what he has to say.

Great idea. I have asked , the autism teacher consultant who is

totally on the same page with me to look into it.

If

> you and Enrique want him working on the panic attacks that is what he

should

> be doing, not causing him to have more of them. It would be well if

Enrique

> could bring these things up himself, but I do not think that it sounds

like

> Enrique could do that right now.

Oh, boy, he sure can't. I have to guess what is wrong as he won't tell me

although he will let me know if I am right or wrong (gee, thanks, Enrique!)

Baby steps.

>

Premie baby steps.

> If you decide to continue with him, I might ask him about audio- or

> video-taping the sessions so that you can watch them and help Enrique to

> interpret the situations. Enrique might be surprised by what you can

point

> out to him and it could be a very good lesson in social skills and

> people-reading for him.

This is totally brilliant. I do not have a video camera though. That would

be optimal, I think.

It seems like you and Enrique are close enough that

> Enrique would not have a problem with you knowing what he is saying in his

> sessions. But he is a teenager so I may be wrong.

>

I am quite good at understanding Enrique.

Thanks, Sara!

Salli

[Guest guest]

> manipulation lies in intent.

I totally agree.

>

> Panic attacks clearly are NOT situations in which he is in control of his

> actions. This is a PHYSICAL disorder.

Again, I agree. If you saw him you would know that he is just totally not

in control.

>

> Also I do not think Enrique has thought out, " If I act this way, then I

will

> not have to ______. " If Enrique is, from a developmental standpoint, not

> able to understand punishment, then how can he understand manipulation and

> conciously use it as a tool to get what he wants? He is no more culpable

> than my is for his tantrums. That is not manipulation. That is a

> pure emotional and physical response to a situation he is unable to cope

> with. The same as an infant crying in hunger. The same as you or I

> flinching away from an object flying at our faces.

That is what I think, although I am not totally sure.

>

> Enrique is *worried* about being manipulative and I think that is the

> clearest proof of all that he is not.

>

He is frightened of being manipulative, yes. He has told me that and he

said Dr. Kaye's statement was like being confronted with his worst fears.

> He is welcome to read this if you think it would be helpful.

>

Ha, ha, he is calm right now so I think I'll pass..

Salli

[Guest guest]

> manipulation lies in intent.

I totally agree.

>

> Panic attacks clearly are NOT situations in which he is in control of his

> actions. This is a PHYSICAL disorder.

Again, I agree. If you saw him you would know that he is just totally not

in control.

>

> Also I do not think Enrique has thought out, " If I act this way, then I

will

> not have to ______. " If Enrique is, from a developmental standpoint, not

> able to understand punishment, then how can he understand manipulation and

> conciously use it as a tool to get what he wants? He is no more culpable

> than my is for his tantrums. That is not manipulation. That is a

> pure emotional and physical response to a situation he is unable to cope

> with. The same as an infant crying in hunger. The same as you or I

> flinching away from an object flying at our faces.

That is what I think, although I am not totally sure.

>

> Enrique is *worried* about being manipulative and I think that is the

> clearest proof of all that he is not.

>

He is frightened of being manipulative, yes. He has told me that and he

said Dr. Kaye's statement was like being confronted with his worst fears.

> He is welcome to read this if you think it would be helpful.

>

Ha, ha, he is calm right now so I think I'll pass..

Salli

[Guest guest]

> manipulation lies in intent.

I totally agree.

>

> Panic attacks clearly are NOT situations in which he is in control of his

> actions. This is a PHYSICAL disorder.

Again, I agree. If you saw him you would know that he is just totally not

in control.

>

> Also I do not think Enrique has thought out, " If I act this way, then I

will

> not have to ______. " If Enrique is, from a developmental standpoint, not

> able to understand punishment, then how can he understand manipulation and

> conciously use it as a tool to get what he wants? He is no more culpable

> than my is for his tantrums. That is not manipulation. That is a

> pure emotional and physical response to a situation he is unable to cope

> with. The same as an infant crying in hunger. The same as you or I

> flinching away from an object flying at our faces.

That is what I think, although I am not totally sure.

>

> Enrique is *worried* about being manipulative and I think that is the

> clearest proof of all that he is not.

>

He is frightened of being manipulative, yes. He has told me that and he

said Dr. Kaye's statement was like being confronted with his worst fears.

> He is welcome to read this if you think it would be helpful.

>

Ha, ha, he is calm right now so I think I'll pass..

Salli

[Guest guest]

> >

>

>

> I won't say I disagree with Dr Kaye's statement that Enrique is

manipulating

> situations -- but shouldn't a therapist know that the kid doesn't REALIZE

> he's manipulating, and that telling him he is, just straight out and blunt

> like that, will only alienate him??? I mean, shit, *I* know that! (and

I'm

> blunt to a fault!)

It seemed more to frighten Enrique.

>

> Damn. I hate it when a good thing falls through.

>

Oh, yeah.

Salli

[Guest guest]

> >

>

>

> I won't say I disagree with Dr Kaye's statement that Enrique is

manipulating

> situations -- but shouldn't a therapist know that the kid doesn't REALIZE

> he's manipulating, and that telling him he is, just straight out and blunt

> like that, will only alienate him??? I mean, shit, *I* know that! (and

I'm

> blunt to a fault!)

It seemed more to frighten Enrique.

>

> Damn. I hate it when a good thing falls through.

>

Oh, yeah.

Salli

[Guest guest]

> >

>

>

> I won't say I disagree with Dr Kaye's statement that Enrique is

manipulating

> situations -- but shouldn't a therapist know that the kid doesn't REALIZE

> he's manipulating, and that telling him he is, just straight out and blunt

> like that, will only alienate him??? I mean, shit, *I* know that! (and

I'm

> blunt to a fault!)

It seemed more to frighten Enrique.

>

> Damn. I hate it when a good thing falls through.

>

Oh, yeah.

Salli

[Guest guest]

<

>

> see, this all goes back to what i said about his bday gift. what did you

ever decide on getting?

>

Oh, I'll get him the PS2.

Salli

[Guest guest]

<

>

> see, this all goes back to what i said about his bday gift. what did you

ever decide on getting?

>

Oh, I'll get him the PS2.

Salli

[Guest guest]

<

>

> see, this all goes back to what i said about his bday gift. what did you

ever decide on getting?

>

Oh, I'll get him the PS2.

Salli

[Guest guest]

> It seems to me that if he is heading into a panic attack, and starts

> worrying that he's manipulating, that would only make the situation worse.

It does.

>

> Which might possibly be why he has so much difficulty telling you what is

> wrong? Because then he is manipulating you into changing/fixing it for

him?

> But if you figure it out on your own then that is " okay " ?

I'm a good mind reader. Yuck, but it is a lot of work.

>

> Has anyone taught Enrique about ways of calming himself out of a panic

> attack? Relaxation techniques etc? I used to have a lot of trouble with

> flashbacks and there were some tricks I learned to help bring myself out

of

> them. I could write something up about that if you wanted.

I think he has had every relaxation trick in the book taught to him. He

says he uses them all day and constantly and they work to keep his stress

levels down to a high level instead of an explosive level.

Sounds really encouraging, doesn't it?

>

> > Ha, ha, he is calm right now so I think I'll pass..

>

> Aw, geez, it's that bad huh?

>

It is. When he is calm, I hate to bring up his problems as they will stress

him out.

Salli