Re: Defacto Violation of LRE

[Guest guest]

Ida, I'll be waiting for the replies on this as well. I thought about it yesterday, how unfair it is (and probably against the law) that a child could not be placed in a regular classroom due to its size. Meaning, a child be placed in a cluster mainly because the gen ed classrooms are overcrowded.GabiSubject: Defacto Violation of LRETo: sList Date: Tuesday, March 23, 2010, 9:46 PM

Hello listmates,

Maybe I am the only one who sees things this way.. or not? Given budgetary cuts, classroom sizes in many schools have gone up. The principal says that even though he sees the need for hiring 2 additional teachers for the grade level in question, there is no money to do so. As a result most classes are between 22-24 students, including the "supported class." When you have a student with autism that can do the academic work in gen ed (with accommodations) for the most part but the main reason he can not spend more than 45 min per day in gen ed is because the classroom size (23 other students)is so large that sensory wise is overwhelming to him (and this is documented in his IEP)and causes him to stim and get hyper, and therefore is placed in the cluster for most of the day, isn't this a defacto violation of the least restrictive environment reg? In other words, if it wasn't for the large size of the supported gen ed class, he could be there learning in a

less restricted environment. Does anyone know if this particular issue is something that parents in Broward have gone into litigation over and what was the outcome, etc...? Apparently, next school year, the situation will only get worse with an additional 6% budget cut to the schools. Isn't that wonderful? Just wondering what are your thoughts on this...

[Guest guest]

Can I send my son to a mckay approved Private school and then eventually go backTo a public school. How does that work?Has anyone sent kids to learning links in Miami? What did you think?ThanksShariSent from my iPhone

Ida, I'll be waiting for the replies on this as well. I thought about it yesterday, how unfair it is (and probably against the law) that a child could not be placed in a regular classroom due to its size. Meaning, a child be placed in a cluster mainly because the gen ed classrooms are overcrowded.GabiFrom: Ida <idajkessler>Subject: Defacto Violation of LRETo: sList Date: Tuesday, March 23, 2010, 9:46 PM

Hello listmates,

Maybe I am the only one who sees things this way.. or not? Given budgetary cuts, classroom sizes in many schools have gone up. The principal says that even though he sees the need for hiring 2 additional teachers for the grade level in question, there is no money to do so. As a result most classes are between 22-24 students, including the "supported class." When you have a student with autism that can do the academic work in gen ed (with accommodations) for the most part but the main reason he can not spend more than 45 min per day in gen ed is because the classroom size (23 other students)is so large that sensory wise is overwhelming to him (and this is documented in his IEP)and causes him to stim and get hyper, and therefore is placed in the cluster for most of the day, isn't this a defacto violation of the least restrictive environment reg? In other words, if it wasn't for the large size of the supported gen ed class, he could be there learning in a

less restricted environment. Does anyone know if this particular issue is something that parents in Broward have gone into litigation over and what was the outcome, etc...? Apparently, next school year, the situation will only get worse with an additional 6% budget cut to the schools. Isn't that wonderful? Just wondering what are your thoughts on this...

[Guest guest]

Ida, regarding budgetary cuts, let me say this. You may hear a

school employee refer to this term but you will never see it in

writing. If you go back to last year's ESY program and notice it was shortened

in duration you will not find a school official blaming it on the budget. The

reason is obvious. It's illegal to do so. Unlike some states, Florida does not

have a size cap on Special Ed unlike regular classes. Thank our astute state

legislators for that one. If you would like to see silence as an answer to a

question ask them to find the basis for their contention in the IDEA. We know

autistic children like many of us, but more so, are sticklers for routine. You

might try a reward for not stimming. This approach depends on his receptive

language and knowing he can control the stimming. Also if he is in the class

more than one day it might become a routine for him. I do know pulling him out

of the class for the stimming reinforces the stimming.

You can encounter another answer of silence by asking them

to explain where you can find written where class size has anything to do with

LRE. I love to ask questions when I know the answers.

You didn't specify what the stim is. I have to assume is either

verbal or clapping or both. It looks like they are saying it is alright for him

to be disruptive in the cluster but not in gen ed. Hmmm I got to think about

that one.

From:

sList [mailto:sList ] On Behalf

Of Ida

Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:47 PM

To: sList

Subject: Defacto Violation of LRE

Hello listmates,

Maybe I am the only one who sees things this way.. or not? Given budgetary

cuts, classroom sizes in many schools have gone up. The principal says that

even though he sees the need for hiring 2 additional teachers for the grade

level in question, there is no money to do so. As a result most classes are

between 22-24 students, including the " supported class. " When you

have a student with autism that can do the academic work in gen ed (with

accommodations)for the most part but the main reason he can not spend more than

45 min per day in gen ed is because the classroom size (23 other students)is so

large that sensory wise is overwhelming to him (and this is documented in his

IEP)and causes him to stim and get hyper, and therefore is placed in the

cluster for most of the day, isn't this a defacto violation of the least

restrictive environment reg? In other words, if it wasn't for the large size of

the supported gen ed class, he could be there learning in a less restricted

environment. Does anyone know if this particular issue is something that

parents in Broward have gone into litigation over and what was the outcome,

etc...? Apparently, next school year, the situation will only get worse with an

additional 6% budget cut to the schools. Isn't that wonderful? Just wondering

what are your thoughts on this...

[Guest guest]

Ida, regarding budgetary cuts, let me say this. You may hear a

school employee refer to this term but you will never see it in

writing. If you go back to last year's ESY program and notice it was shortened

in duration you will not find a school official blaming it on the budget. The

reason is obvious. It's illegal to do so. Unlike some states, Florida does not

have a size cap on Special Ed unlike regular classes. Thank our astute state

legislators for that one. If you would like to see silence as an answer to a

question ask them to find the basis for their contention in the IDEA. We know

autistic children like many of us, but more so, are sticklers for routine. You

might try a reward for not stimming. This approach depends on his receptive

language and knowing he can control the stimming. Also if he is in the class

more than one day it might become a routine for him. I do know pulling him out

of the class for the stimming reinforces the stimming.

You can encounter another answer of silence by asking them

to explain where you can find written where class size has anything to do with

LRE. I love to ask questions when I know the answers.

You didn't specify what the stim is. I have to assume is either

verbal or clapping or both. It looks like they are saying it is alright for him

to be disruptive in the cluster but not in gen ed. Hmmm I got to think about

that one.

From:

sList [mailto:sList ] On Behalf

Of Ida

Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:47 PM

To: sList

Subject: Defacto Violation of LRE

Hello listmates,

Maybe I am the only one who sees things this way.. or not? Given budgetary

cuts, classroom sizes in many schools have gone up. The principal says that

even though he sees the need for hiring 2 additional teachers for the grade

level in question, there is no money to do so. As a result most classes are

between 22-24 students, including the " supported class. " When you

have a student with autism that can do the academic work in gen ed (with

accommodations)for the most part but the main reason he can not spend more than

45 min per day in gen ed is because the classroom size (23 other students)is so

large that sensory wise is overwhelming to him (and this is documented in his

IEP)and causes him to stim and get hyper, and therefore is placed in the

cluster for most of the day, isn't this a defacto violation of the least

restrictive environment reg? In other words, if it wasn't for the large size of

the supported gen ed class, he could be there learning in a less restricted

environment. Does anyone know if this particular issue is something that

parents in Broward have gone into litigation over and what was the outcome,

etc...? Apparently, next school year, the situation will only get worse with an

additional 6% budget cut to the schools. Isn't that wonderful? Just wondering

what are your thoughts on this...

[Guest guest]

Ida, regarding budgetary cuts, let me say this. You may hear a

school employee refer to this term but you will never see it in

writing. If you go back to last year's ESY program and notice it was shortened

in duration you will not find a school official blaming it on the budget. The

reason is obvious. It's illegal to do so. Unlike some states, Florida does not

have a size cap on Special Ed unlike regular classes. Thank our astute state

legislators for that one. If you would like to see silence as an answer to a

question ask them to find the basis for their contention in the IDEA. We know

autistic children like many of us, but more so, are sticklers for routine. You

might try a reward for not stimming. This approach depends on his receptive

language and knowing he can control the stimming. Also if he is in the class

more than one day it might become a routine for him. I do know pulling him out

of the class for the stimming reinforces the stimming.

You can encounter another answer of silence by asking them

to explain where you can find written where class size has anything to do with

LRE. I love to ask questions when I know the answers.

You didn't specify what the stim is. I have to assume is either

verbal or clapping or both. It looks like they are saying it is alright for him

to be disruptive in the cluster but not in gen ed. Hmmm I got to think about

that one.

From:

sList [mailto:sList ] On Behalf

Of Ida

Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:47 PM

To: sList

Subject: Defacto Violation of LRE

Hello listmates,

Maybe I am the only one who sees things this way.. or not? Given budgetary

cuts, classroom sizes in many schools have gone up. The principal says that

even though he sees the need for hiring 2 additional teachers for the grade

level in question, there is no money to do so. As a result most classes are

between 22-24 students, including the " supported class. " When you

have a student with autism that can do the academic work in gen ed (with

accommodations)for the most part but the main reason he can not spend more than

45 min per day in gen ed is because the classroom size (23 other students)is so

large that sensory wise is overwhelming to him (and this is documented in his

IEP)and causes him to stim and get hyper, and therefore is placed in the

cluster for most of the day, isn't this a defacto violation of the least

restrictive environment reg? In other words, if it wasn't for the large size of

the supported gen ed class, he could be there learning in a less restricted

environment. Does anyone know if this particular issue is something that

parents in Broward have gone into litigation over and what was the outcome,

etc...? Apparently, next school year, the situation will only get worse with an

additional 6% budget cut to the schools. Isn't that wonderful? Just wondering

what are your thoughts on this...

[Guest guest]

, the stimmming is verbal (keeps reciting scripted language he read in books and memorized or watch in videos or make noises). Luckily, I am very happy with the work the ESE kindergarten teacher has been doing with him. Academically, he tested a 98% in third grade reading vocabulary and grade level in math. But what one his greatest weaknesses is socialization and let's face it,they have a better chance to develop in this area when you provide them with the best role models which are usually typical kids. And it so happens that the kindergarten typical kids in the class in question are very accepting of him and some really continue trying to reach out to him even after he has walked away from them and ignored them. (They have learned not to take it personally because the teacher has told them that he needs their help to learn to play.) So, it would be

great if he could actually spend more time around them. It is sad how the people of Florida give so little importance to education. Other states award more than twice the money Florida provides for each student. I write to our legislators but I guess not enough people are making a fuss about it to make a difference...Subject: RE: Defacto Violation of LRETo: sList Date: Wednesday, March 24, 2010, 3:17 PM

Ida, regarding budgetary cuts, let me say this. You may hear a

school employee refer to this term but you will never see it in

writing. If you go back to last year's ESY program and notice it was shortened

in duration you will not find a school official blaming it on the budget. The

reason is obvious. It's illegal to do so. Unlike some states, Florida does not

have a size cap on Special Ed unlike regular classes. Thank our astute state

legislators for that one. If you would like to see silence as an answer to a

question ask them to find the basis for their contention in the IDEA. We know

autistic children like many of us, but more so, are sticklers for routine. You

might try a reward for not stimming. This approach depends on his receptive

language and knowing he can control the stimming. Also if he is in the class

more than one day it might become a routine for him. I do know pulling him out

of the class for the stimming reinforces the stimming. You can encounter another answer of silence by asking them

to explain where you can find written where class size has anything to do with

LRE. I love to ask questions when I know the answers. You didn't specify what the stim is. I have to assume is either

verbal or clapping or both. It looks like they are saying it is alright for him

to be disruptive in the cluster but not in gen ed. Hmmm I got to think about

that one.

From:

sList@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:sList @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf

Of Ida

Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:47 PM

To: sList@ yahoogroups. com

Subject: Defacto Violation of LRE

Hello listmates,

Maybe I am the only one who sees things this way.. or not? Given budgetary

cuts, classroom sizes in many schools have gone up. The principal says that

even though he sees the need for hiring 2 additional teachers for the grade

level in question, there is no money to do so. As a result most classes are

between 22-24 students, including the "supported class." When you

have a student with autism that can do the academic work in gen ed (with

accommodations) for the most part but the main reason he can not spend more than

45 min per day in gen ed is because the classroom size (23 other students)is so

large that sensory wise is overwhelming to him (and this is documented in his

IEP)and causes him to stim and get hyper, and therefore is placed in the

cluster for most of the day, isn't this a defacto violation of the least

restrictive environment reg? In other words, if it wasn't for the large size of

the supported gen ed class, he could be there learning in a less restricted

environment. Does anyone know if this particular issue is something that

parents in Broward have gone into litigation over and what was the outcome,

etc...? Apparently, next school year, the situation will only get worse with an

additional 6% budget cut to the schools. Isn't that wonderful? Just wondering

what are your thoughts on this...

[Guest guest]

, the stimmming is verbal (keeps reciting scripted language he read in books and memorized or watch in videos or make noises). Luckily, I am very happy with the work the ESE kindergarten teacher has been doing with him. Academically, he tested a 98% in third grade reading vocabulary and grade level in math. But what one his greatest weaknesses is socialization and let's face it,they have a better chance to develop in this area when you provide them with the best role models which are usually typical kids. And it so happens that the kindergarten typical kids in the class in question are very accepting of him and some really continue trying to reach out to him even after he has walked away from them and ignored them. (They have learned not to take it personally because the teacher has told them that he needs their help to learn to play.) So, it would be

great if he could actually spend more time around them. It is sad how the people of Florida give so little importance to education. Other states award more than twice the money Florida provides for each student. I write to our legislators but I guess not enough people are making a fuss about it to make a difference...Subject: RE: Defacto Violation of LRETo: sList Date: Wednesday, March 24, 2010, 3:17 PM

Ida, regarding budgetary cuts, let me say this. You may hear a

school employee refer to this term but you will never see it in

writing. If you go back to last year's ESY program and notice it was shortened

in duration you will not find a school official blaming it on the budget. The

reason is obvious. It's illegal to do so. Unlike some states, Florida does not

have a size cap on Special Ed unlike regular classes. Thank our astute state

legislators for that one. If you would like to see silence as an answer to a

question ask them to find the basis for their contention in the IDEA. We know

autistic children like many of us, but more so, are sticklers for routine. You

might try a reward for not stimming. This approach depends on his receptive

language and knowing he can control the stimming. Also if he is in the class

more than one day it might become a routine for him. I do know pulling him out

of the class for the stimming reinforces the stimming. You can encounter another answer of silence by asking them

to explain where you can find written where class size has anything to do with

LRE. I love to ask questions when I know the answers. You didn't specify what the stim is. I have to assume is either

verbal or clapping or both. It looks like they are saying it is alright for him

to be disruptive in the cluster but not in gen ed. Hmmm I got to think about

that one.

From:

sList@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:sList @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf

Of Ida

Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:47 PM

To: sList@ yahoogroups. com

Subject: Defacto Violation of LRE

Hello listmates,

Maybe I am the only one who sees things this way.. or not? Given budgetary

cuts, classroom sizes in many schools have gone up. The principal says that

even though he sees the need for hiring 2 additional teachers for the grade

level in question, there is no money to do so. As a result most classes are

between 22-24 students, including the "supported class." When you

have a student with autism that can do the academic work in gen ed (with

accommodations) for the most part but the main reason he can not spend more than

45 min per day in gen ed is because the classroom size (23 other students)is so

large that sensory wise is overwhelming to him (and this is documented in his

IEP)and causes him to stim and get hyper, and therefore is placed in the

cluster for most of the day, isn't this a defacto violation of the least

restrictive environment reg? In other words, if it wasn't for the large size of

the supported gen ed class, he could be there learning in a less restricted

environment. Does anyone know if this particular issue is something that

parents in Broward have gone into litigation over and what was the outcome,

etc...? Apparently, next school year, the situation will only get worse with an

additional 6% budget cut to the schools. Isn't that wonderful? Just wondering

what are your thoughts on this...

[Guest guest]

NO MONEY!!! Why not? They have met all the needs of our children so the superintendent redirected the EXTRA (32 million a year for two years) funds to other areas. How could there not be money for TEACHERS if they are needed? Transportation is the biggest expense and they bought some new buses...surely they would have hired the appropriate amount of teachers before buying NEW buses instead of used buses....and our school is being remodeled and all the teachers have brand new HUGE Apple laptops...surely they would hire new and appropriate TEACHERS before these expenses?? The cut the ESE positions in our school...we must have had enough....after all, all the meeting are held on time????

Sorry...the whole NO MONEY BS bothers me...

Regards,

Darla Haskell

Defacto Violation of LRE

Hello listmates,

Maybe I am the only one who sees things this way.. or not? Given budgetary

cuts, classroom sizes in many schools have gone up. The principal says that

even though he sees the need for hiring 2 additional teachers for the grade

level in question, there is no money to do so. As a result most classes are

between 22-24 students, including the "supported class." When you

have a student with autism that can do the academic work in gen ed (with

accommodations) for the most part but the main reason he can not spend more than

45 min per day in gen ed is because the classroom size (23 other students)is so

large that sensory wise is overwhelming to him (and this is documented in his

IEP)and causes him to stim and get hyper, and therefore is placed in the

cluster for most of the day, isn't this a defacto violation of the least

restrictive environment reg? In other words, if it wasn't for the large size of

the supported gen ed class, he could be there learning in a less restricted

environment. Does anyone know if this particular issue is something that

parents in Broward have gone into litigation over and what was the outcome,

etc...? Apparently, next school year, the situation will only get worse with an

additional 6% budget cut to the schools. Isn't that wonderful? Just wondering

what are your thoughts on this...

[Guest guest]

NO MONEY!!! Why not? They have met all the needs of our children so the superintendent redirected the EXTRA (32 million a year for two years) funds to other areas. How could there not be money for TEACHERS if they are needed? Transportation is the biggest expense and they bought some new buses...surely they would have hired the appropriate amount of teachers before buying NEW buses instead of used buses....and our school is being remodeled and all the teachers have brand new HUGE Apple laptops...surely they would hire new and appropriate TEACHERS before these expenses?? The cut the ESE positions in our school...we must have had enough....after all, all the meeting are held on time????

Sorry...the whole NO MONEY BS bothers me...

Regards,

Darla Haskell

Defacto Violation of LRE

Hello listmates,

Maybe I am the only one who sees things this way.. or not? Given budgetary

cuts, classroom sizes in many schools have gone up. The principal says that

even though he sees the need for hiring 2 additional teachers for the grade

level in question, there is no money to do so. As a result most classes are

between 22-24 students, including the "supported class." When you

have a student with autism that can do the academic work in gen ed (with

accommodations) for the most part but the main reason he can not spend more than

45 min per day in gen ed is because the classroom size (23 other students)is so

large that sensory wise is overwhelming to him (and this is documented in his

IEP)and causes him to stim and get hyper, and therefore is placed in the

cluster for most of the day, isn't this a defacto violation of the least

restrictive environment reg? In other words, if it wasn't for the large size of

the supported gen ed class, he could be there learning in a less restricted

environment. Does anyone know if this particular issue is something that

parents in Broward have gone into litigation over and what was the outcome,

etc...? Apparently, next school year, the situation will only get worse with an

additional 6% budget cut to the schools. Isn't that wonderful? Just wondering

what are your thoughts on this...

[Guest guest]

NO MONEY!!! Why not? They have met all the needs of our children so the superintendent redirected the EXTRA (32 million a year for two years) funds to other areas. How could there not be money for TEACHERS if they are needed? Transportation is the biggest expense and they bought some new buses...surely they would have hired the appropriate amount of teachers before buying NEW buses instead of used buses....and our school is being remodeled and all the teachers have brand new HUGE Apple laptops...surely they would hire new and appropriate TEACHERS before these expenses?? The cut the ESE positions in our school...we must have had enough....after all, all the meeting are held on time????

Sorry...the whole NO MONEY BS bothers me...

Regards,

Darla Haskell

Defacto Violation of LRE

Hello listmates,

Maybe I am the only one who sees things this way.. or not? Given budgetary

cuts, classroom sizes in many schools have gone up. The principal says that

even though he sees the need for hiring 2 additional teachers for the grade

level in question, there is no money to do so. As a result most classes are

between 22-24 students, including the "supported class." When you

have a student with autism that can do the academic work in gen ed (with

accommodations) for the most part but the main reason he can not spend more than

45 min per day in gen ed is because the classroom size (23 other students)is so

large that sensory wise is overwhelming to him (and this is documented in his

IEP)and causes him to stim and get hyper, and therefore is placed in the

cluster for most of the day, isn't this a defacto violation of the least

restrictive environment reg? In other words, if it wasn't for the large size of

the supported gen ed class, he could be there learning in a less restricted

environment. Does anyone know if this particular issue is something that

parents in Broward have gone into litigation over and what was the outcome,

etc...? Apparently, next school year, the situation will only get worse with an

additional 6% budget cut to the schools. Isn't that wonderful? Just wondering

what are your thoughts on this...

[Guest guest]

I don't think he can achieve his potential in a cluster class.

It is really beyond the teacher because she is teaching a program that other

students follow.  The rest of the class may be holding him back from advancing

academically. Remember also there is no least restrictive environment in a

cluster because by definition that class is ruled out. LRE refers only to their

relationship to typical children. Maybe Parent to Parents' yahoo group may have

some suggestions. Email me if you are interested in joining.    

From: sList

[mailto:sList ] On Behalf Of Ida Kessler

Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 1:28 PM

To: sList

Subject: RE: Defacto Violation of LRE

, the stimmming is verbal (keeps reciting scripted

language he read in books and memorized or watch in videos or make noises).

Luckily, I am very happy with the work the ESE kindergarten teacher has been

doing with him. Academically, he tested a 98% in third grade reading

vocabulary and grade level in math. But what one his greatest weaknesses is

socialization and let's face it,they have a better chance to develop in this

area when you provide them with the best role models which are usually

typical kids. And it so happens that the kindergarten typical kids in the

class in question are very accepting of him and some really continue trying

to reach out to him even after he has walked away from them and ignored them.

(They have learned not to take it personally because the teacher has told

them that he needs their help to learn to play.) So, it would be great

if he could actually spend more time around them.

It is sad how the people of Florida give so little importance to education.

Other states award more than twice the money Florida provides for each

student. I write to our legislators but I guess not enough people are making

a fuss about it to make a difference...

Subject: RE: Defacto Violation of LRE

To: sList

Date: Wednesday, March 24, 2010, 3:17 PM

Ida, regarding budgetary cuts, let me

say this. You may hear a school employee refer to this term but you will

never see it in writing. If you go back to last year's ESY

program and notice it was shortened in duration you will not find a school

official blaming it on the budget. The reason is obvious. It's illegal to do

so. Unlike some states, Florida does not have a size cap on Special Ed unlike

regular classes. Thank our astute state legislators for that one. If you

would like to see silence as an answer to a question ask them to find the

basis for their contention in the IDEA. We know autistic children like many

of us, but more so, are sticklers for routine. You might try a reward for not

stimming. This approach depends on his receptive language and knowing he can

control the stimming. Also if he is in the class more than one day it might

become a routine for him. I do know pulling him out of the class for the

stimming reinforces the stimming.

You can encounter another answer

of silence by asking them to explain where you can find written where class

size has anything to do with LRE. I love to ask questions when I know the

answers.

You didn't specify what the stim is. I

have to assume is either verbal or clapping or both. It looks like they are

saying it is alright for him to be disruptive in the cluster but not in gen

ed. Hmmm I got to think about that one.

From:

sList@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:sList @yahoogroups. com] On

Behalf Of Ida

Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:47 PM

To: sList@ yahoogroups. com

Subject: Defacto Violation of LRE

Hello listmates,

Maybe I am the only one who sees things this way.. or not? Given budgetary

cuts, classroom sizes in many schools have gone up. The principal says that

even though he sees the need for hiring 2 additional teachers for the grade

level in question, there is no money to do so. As a result most classes are

between 22-24 students, including the " supported class. " When you

have a student with autism that can do the academic work in gen ed (with

accommodations) for the most part but the main reason he can not spend more

than 45 min per day in gen ed is because the classroom size (23 other

students)is so large that sensory wise is overwhelming to him (and this is

documented in his IEP)and causes him to stim and get hyper, and therefore is

placed in the cluster for most of the day, isn't this a defacto violation of

the least restrictive environment reg? In other words, if it wasn't for the

large size of the supported gen ed class, he could be there learning in a

less restricted environment. Does anyone know if this particular issue is

something that parents in Broward have gone into litigation over and what was

the outcome, etc...? Apparently, next school year, the situation will only

get worse with an additional 6% budget cut to the schools. Isn't that

wonderful? Just wondering what are your thoughts on this...

[Guest guest]

I don't think he can achieve his potential in a cluster class.

It is really beyond the teacher because she is teaching a program that other

students follow.  The rest of the class may be holding him back from advancing

academically. Remember also there is no least restrictive environment in a

cluster because by definition that class is ruled out. LRE refers only to their

relationship to typical children. Maybe Parent to Parents' yahoo group may have

some suggestions. Email me if you are interested in joining.    

From: sList

[mailto:sList ] On Behalf Of Ida Kessler

Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 1:28 PM

To: sList

Subject: RE: Defacto Violation of LRE

, the stimmming is verbal (keeps reciting scripted

language he read in books and memorized or watch in videos or make noises).

Luckily, I am very happy with the work the ESE kindergarten teacher has been

doing with him. Academically, he tested a 98% in third grade reading

vocabulary and grade level in math. But what one his greatest weaknesses is

socialization and let's face it,they have a better chance to develop in this

area when you provide them with the best role models which are usually

typical kids. And it so happens that the kindergarten typical kids in the

class in question are very accepting of him and some really continue trying

to reach out to him even after he has walked away from them and ignored them.

(They have learned not to take it personally because the teacher has told

them that he needs their help to learn to play.) So, it would be great

if he could actually spend more time around them.

It is sad how the people of Florida give so little importance to education.

Other states award more than twice the money Florida provides for each

student. I write to our legislators but I guess not enough people are making

a fuss about it to make a difference...

Subject: RE: Defacto Violation of LRE

To: sList

Date: Wednesday, March 24, 2010, 3:17 PM

Ida, regarding budgetary cuts, let me

say this. You may hear a school employee refer to this term but you will

never see it in writing. If you go back to last year's ESY

program and notice it was shortened in duration you will not find a school

official blaming it on the budget. The reason is obvious. It's illegal to do

so. Unlike some states, Florida does not have a size cap on Special Ed unlike

regular classes. Thank our astute state legislators for that one. If you

would like to see silence as an answer to a question ask them to find the

basis for their contention in the IDEA. We know autistic children like many

of us, but more so, are sticklers for routine. You might try a reward for not

stimming. This approach depends on his receptive language and knowing he can

control the stimming. Also if he is in the class more than one day it might

become a routine for him. I do know pulling him out of the class for the

stimming reinforces the stimming.

You can encounter another answer

of silence by asking them to explain where you can find written where class

size has anything to do with LRE. I love to ask questions when I know the

answers.

You didn't specify what the stim is. I

have to assume is either verbal or clapping or both. It looks like they are

saying it is alright for him to be disruptive in the cluster but not in gen

ed. Hmmm I got to think about that one.

From:

sList@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:sList @yahoogroups. com] On

Behalf Of Ida

Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:47 PM

To: sList@ yahoogroups. com

Subject: Defacto Violation of LRE

Hello listmates,

Maybe I am the only one who sees things this way.. or not? Given budgetary

cuts, classroom sizes in many schools have gone up. The principal says that

even though he sees the need for hiring 2 additional teachers for the grade

level in question, there is no money to do so. As a result most classes are

between 22-24 students, including the " supported class. " When you

have a student with autism that can do the academic work in gen ed (with

accommodations) for the most part but the main reason he can not spend more

than 45 min per day in gen ed is because the classroom size (23 other

students)is so large that sensory wise is overwhelming to him (and this is

documented in his IEP)and causes him to stim and get hyper, and therefore is

placed in the cluster for most of the day, isn't this a defacto violation of

the least restrictive environment reg? In other words, if it wasn't for the

large size of the supported gen ed class, he could be there learning in a

less restricted environment. Does anyone know if this particular issue is

something that parents in Broward have gone into litigation over and what was

the outcome, etc...? Apparently, next school year, the situation will only

get worse with an additional 6% budget cut to the schools. Isn't that

wonderful? Just wondering what are your thoughts on this...

[Guest guest]

I don't think he can achieve his potential in a cluster class.

It is really beyond the teacher because she is teaching a program that other

students follow.  The rest of the class may be holding him back from advancing

academically. Remember also there is no least restrictive environment in a

cluster because by definition that class is ruled out. LRE refers only to their

relationship to typical children. Maybe Parent to Parents' yahoo group may have

some suggestions. Email me if you are interested in joining.    

From: sList

[mailto:sList ] On Behalf Of Ida Kessler

Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 1:28 PM

To: sList

Subject: RE: Defacto Violation of LRE

, the stimmming is verbal (keeps reciting scripted

language he read in books and memorized or watch in videos or make noises).

Luckily, I am very happy with the work the ESE kindergarten teacher has been

doing with him. Academically, he tested a 98% in third grade reading

vocabulary and grade level in math. But what one his greatest weaknesses is

socialization and let's face it,they have a better chance to develop in this

area when you provide them with the best role models which are usually

typical kids. And it so happens that the kindergarten typical kids in the

class in question are very accepting of him and some really continue trying

to reach out to him even after he has walked away from them and ignored them.

(They have learned not to take it personally because the teacher has told

them that he needs their help to learn to play.) So, it would be great

if he could actually spend more time around them.

It is sad how the people of Florida give so little importance to education.

Other states award more than twice the money Florida provides for each

student. I write to our legislators but I guess not enough people are making

a fuss about it to make a difference...

Subject: RE: Defacto Violation of LRE

To: sList

Date: Wednesday, March 24, 2010, 3:17 PM

Ida, regarding budgetary cuts, let me

say this. You may hear a school employee refer to this term but you will

never see it in writing. If you go back to last year's ESY

program and notice it was shortened in duration you will not find a school

official blaming it on the budget. The reason is obvious. It's illegal to do

so. Unlike some states, Florida does not have a size cap on Special Ed unlike

regular classes. Thank our astute state legislators for that one. If you

would like to see silence as an answer to a question ask them to find the

basis for their contention in the IDEA. We know autistic children like many

of us, but more so, are sticklers for routine. You might try a reward for not

stimming. This approach depends on his receptive language and knowing he can

control the stimming. Also if he is in the class more than one day it might

become a routine for him. I do know pulling him out of the class for the

stimming reinforces the stimming.

You can encounter another answer

of silence by asking them to explain where you can find written where class

size has anything to do with LRE. I love to ask questions when I know the

answers.

You didn't specify what the stim is. I

have to assume is either verbal or clapping or both. It looks like they are

saying it is alright for him to be disruptive in the cluster but not in gen

ed. Hmmm I got to think about that one.

From:

sList@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:sList @yahoogroups. com] On

Behalf Of Ida

Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:47 PM

To: sList@ yahoogroups. com

Subject: Defacto Violation of LRE

Hello listmates,

Maybe I am the only one who sees things this way.. or not? Given budgetary

cuts, classroom sizes in many schools have gone up. The principal says that

even though he sees the need for hiring 2 additional teachers for the grade

level in question, there is no money to do so. As a result most classes are

between 22-24 students, including the " supported class. " When you

have a student with autism that can do the academic work in gen ed (with

accommodations) for the most part but the main reason he can not spend more

than 45 min per day in gen ed is because the classroom size (23 other

students)is so large that sensory wise is overwhelming to him (and this is

documented in his IEP)and causes him to stim and get hyper, and therefore is

placed in the cluster for most of the day, isn't this a defacto violation of

the least restrictive environment reg? In other words, if it wasn't for the

large size of the supported gen ed class, he could be there learning in a

less restricted environment. Does anyone know if this particular issue is

something that parents in Broward have gone into litigation over and what was

the outcome, etc...? Apparently, next school year, the situation will only

get worse with an additional 6% budget cut to the schools. Isn't that

wonderful? Just wondering what are your thoughts on this...

[Guest guest]

Yes. You can go from public to private and back to public. You

can also use the MCKay for a public school outside of your home school.

From:

sList [mailto:sList ] On Behalf

Of shari macey

Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:52 AM

To: sList

Subject: Re: Defacto Violation of LRE

Can I send my son to a mckay approved

Private school and then eventually go back

To a public school. How does that work?

Has anyone sent kids to learning links in

Miami? What did you think?

Thanks

Shari

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 24, 2010, at 10:17 AM, Gabi Co

wrote:

Ida, I'll be waiting for the replies on this as well. I

thought about it yesterday, how unfair it is (and probably against the law)

that a child could not be placed in a regular classroom due to its size.

Meaning, a child be placed in a cluster mainly because the gen ed classrooms

are overcrowded.

Gabi

From: Ida <idajkessler>

Subject: Defacto Violation of LRE

To: sList

Date: Tuesday, March 23, 2010, 9:46 PM

Hello listmates,

Maybe I am the only one who sees things this way.. or not? Given budgetary

cuts, classroom sizes in many schools have gone up. The principal says that

even though he sees the need for hiring 2 additional teachers for the grade

level in question, there is no money to do so. As a result most classes are

between 22-24 students, including the " supported class. " When you

have a student with autism that can do the academic work in gen ed (with

accommodations) for the most part but the main reason he can not spend more

than 45 min per day in gen ed is because the classroom size (23 other

students)is so large that sensory wise is overwhelming to him (and this is

documented in his IEP)and causes him to stim and get hyper, and therefore is

placed in the cluster for most of the day, isn't this a defacto violation of

the least restrictive environment reg? In other words, if it wasn't for the

large size of the supported gen ed class, he could be there learning in a

less restricted environment. Does anyone know if this particular issue is

something that parents in Broward have gone into litigation over and what was

the outcome, etc...? Apparently, next school year, the situation will only

get worse with an additional 6% budget cut to the schools. Isn't that

wonderful? Just wondering what are your thoughts on this...

[Guest guest]

Yes. You can go from public to private and back to public. You

can also use the MCKay for a public school outside of your home school.

From:

sList [mailto:sList ] On Behalf

Of shari macey

Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:52 AM

To: sList

Subject: Re: Defacto Violation of LRE

Can I send my son to a mckay approved

Private school and then eventually go back

To a public school. How does that work?

Has anyone sent kids to learning links in

Miami? What did you think?

Thanks

Shari

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 24, 2010, at 10:17 AM, Gabi Co

wrote:

Ida, I'll be waiting for the replies on this as well. I

thought about it yesterday, how unfair it is (and probably against the law)

that a child could not be placed in a regular classroom due to its size.

Meaning, a child be placed in a cluster mainly because the gen ed classrooms

are overcrowded.

Gabi

From: Ida <idajkessler>

Subject: Defacto Violation of LRE

To: sList

Date: Tuesday, March 23, 2010, 9:46 PM

Hello listmates,

Maybe I am the only one who sees things this way.. or not? Given budgetary

cuts, classroom sizes in many schools have gone up. The principal says that

even though he sees the need for hiring 2 additional teachers for the grade

level in question, there is no money to do so. As a result most classes are

between 22-24 students, including the " supported class. " When you

have a student with autism that can do the academic work in gen ed (with

accommodations) for the most part but the main reason he can not spend more

than 45 min per day in gen ed is because the classroom size (23 other

students)is so large that sensory wise is overwhelming to him (and this is

documented in his IEP)and causes him to stim and get hyper, and therefore is

placed in the cluster for most of the day, isn't this a defacto violation of

the least restrictive environment reg? In other words, if it wasn't for the

large size of the supported gen ed class, he could be there learning in a

less restricted environment. Does anyone know if this particular issue is

something that parents in Broward have gone into litigation over and what was

the outcome, etc...? Apparently, next school year, the situation will only

get worse with an additional 6% budget cut to the schools. Isn't that

wonderful? Just wondering what are your thoughts on this...

[Guest guest]

Yes. You can go from public to private and back to public. You

can also use the MCKay for a public school outside of your home school.

From:

sList [mailto:sList ] On Behalf

Of shari macey

Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:52 AM

To: sList

Subject: Re: Defacto Violation of LRE

Can I send my son to a mckay approved

Private school and then eventually go back

To a public school. How does that work?

Has anyone sent kids to learning links in

Miami? What did you think?

Thanks

Shari

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 24, 2010, at 10:17 AM, Gabi Co

wrote:

Ida, I'll be waiting for the replies on this as well. I

thought about it yesterday, how unfair it is (and probably against the law)

that a child could not be placed in a regular classroom due to its size.

Meaning, a child be placed in a cluster mainly because the gen ed classrooms

are overcrowded.

Gabi

From: Ida <idajkessler>

Subject: Defacto Violation of LRE

To: sList

Date: Tuesday, March 23, 2010, 9:46 PM

Hello listmates,

Maybe I am the only one who sees things this way.. or not? Given budgetary

cuts, classroom sizes in many schools have gone up. The principal says that

even though he sees the need for hiring 2 additional teachers for the grade

level in question, there is no money to do so. As a result most classes are

between 22-24 students, including the " supported class. " When you

have a student with autism that can do the academic work in gen ed (with

accommodations) for the most part but the main reason he can not spend more

than 45 min per day in gen ed is because the classroom size (23 other

students)is so large that sensory wise is overwhelming to him (and this is

documented in his IEP)and causes him to stim and get hyper, and therefore is

placed in the cluster for most of the day, isn't this a defacto violation of

the least restrictive environment reg? In other words, if it wasn't for the

large size of the supported gen ed class, he could be there learning in a

less restricted environment. Does anyone know if this particular issue is

something that parents in Broward have gone into litigation over and what was

the outcome, etc...? Apparently, next school year, the situation will only

get worse with an additional 6% budget cut to the schools. Isn't that

wonderful? Just wondering what are your thoughts on this...