Guest guest Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 Well, here's one medic's opinion. I firmly believe that medics should be paid the MINIMUM equivilent of RNs, in the $18-25 an hour range....especially if the intent is to require a 2-year AD course in pre-hospital medicine. It takes 2 years to train both Paramedics and ADNs, our responsibilities are roughly the same (I said roughly y'all)and our job is at least as important to overall community health. You ought to be able to own a modest 4 bedroom home, own 2 late model vehicles, take a yearly vacation and support a family of 4 on the salary of a paramedic, without working 2 jobs, or a ton of OT. That's not too much to ask for, and its high time for it to happen. Thats realistic, but personally, I think people in public service deserve FAR FAR more....at least as much as a .240 major league hitter or a starting pitcher with an ERA over 5. I'm married to an ADN, who's brilliant and makes a pile of cash as an agency nurse. Our deal has been that it was my job to provide the benefits and pay the light bill with my meager EMS salary, and she'd make the money. She makes 3 1/2 times what I make an hour, and that's pathetic. > We were all discussing how little we are paid in this field a while > ago and I'm curious. How much do you think EMS personnel should be > paid? How much per hour? Or yearly? With what kind of benefits? Free > CEs? What do y'all think? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 Well, here's one medic's opinion. I firmly believe that medics should be paid the MINIMUM equivilent of RNs, in the $18-25 an hour range....especially if the intent is to require a 2-year AD course in pre-hospital medicine. It takes 2 years to train both Paramedics and ADNs, our responsibilities are roughly the same (I said roughly y'all)and our job is at least as important to overall community health. You ought to be able to own a modest 4 bedroom home, own 2 late model vehicles, take a yearly vacation and support a family of 4 on the salary of a paramedic, without working 2 jobs, or a ton of OT. That's not too much to ask for, and its high time for it to happen. Thats realistic, but personally, I think people in public service deserve FAR FAR more....at least as much as a .240 major league hitter or a starting pitcher with an ERA over 5. I'm married to an ADN, who's brilliant and makes a pile of cash as an agency nurse. Our deal has been that it was my job to provide the benefits and pay the light bill with my meager EMS salary, and she'd make the money. She makes 3 1/2 times what I make an hour, and that's pathetic. > We were all discussing how little we are paid in this field a while > ago and I'm curious. How much do you think EMS personnel should be > paid? How much per hour? Or yearly? With what kind of benefits? Free > CEs? What do y'all think? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 Good, Now we have some numbers to work with. Lets look at 2 examples of work schedules under an hourly rate schedule of $18 an hour...then we will look at the same at $24 an hour (we don't want to be greedy). $18 per hour on a 24/48 hour schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 6 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $59,904 (nothing extra added in...just 24/48) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $80,870.40 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $485,222.40 (assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Average Bill for each transport: $600 Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 2,696 or 7.39 per day (this doesn't include cost of vehicle, supplies, fuel, station, uniforms, holidays, maintenance, equipment, dispatching, supervision/control, billing processing, computer support, etc) $18 per hour on a 40 hour per week schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 8.4 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $37,440 (nothing extra added in...just 40 hours per week) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $50,544 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $424,569.60(assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Average Bill for each transport: $600 Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 2,358 or 6.46 per day $24 per hour on a 24/48 hour schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 6 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $79,872 (nothing extra added in...just 24/48) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $107,827.20 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $646,963.20(assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Average Bill for each transport: $600 Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 3,594 or 9.85 per day $24 per hour on a 40 hour per week schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 8.4 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $49,920 (nothing extra added in...just 40 hours per week) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $67,392 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $566,092.80(assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Same Billing Stats as in first example Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 3,145 or 8.62 per day Which wages are the best? From a field perspective one would want to work the 24/48 hour schedule so that the money really rolled in...from a mgmt perspective, everyone is changing over to 40 hour shifts...and overtime is VERY limited. Either way, just to pay for the minimum staffing, each ambulance has to run between 6.5 to 10 calls per day with each one falling into these assumption parameters to just pay the paramedics. If you want an ambulance, a heart monitor, someone to bill these calls for you so you don't have to in-between calls, band-aids, IV fluids, Backboards, radios, uniforms, etc...the number of calls increases... Although many places run these types of numbers, it is tought to keep these call volumes up PER unit because frequently geography and time on task requirements force these averages lower. Didn't want to go anywhere else with this than to hopefully stir some more thoughts on what we can do to pay the bills so that we can pay our folks as well as each of us think we should get paid. Again, education alone will not fix the problem and with certain beliefs being floated across the country of making even MORE healthcare coming from the Federal Government...we are poised to slide even further backwards...not forwards. Just my thoughts on a lazy Saturday morning. Dudley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 There is one aspect of your information you may not have thought about. Your numbers are assuming a 100% transport ratio. Depending on where you work the number of calls needed to have your 6-10 transports per day might be a much higher number. This would open many more cans of worms for both employees and agencies. Lee Re: EMS Pay Good, Now we have some numbers to work with. Lets look at 2 examples of work schedules under an hourly rate schedule of $18 an hour...then we will look at the same at $24 an hour (we don't want to be greedy). $18 per hour on a 24/48 hour schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 6 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $59,904 (nothing extra added in...just 24/48) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $80,870.40 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $485,222.40 (assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Average Bill for each transport: $600 Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 2,696 or 7.39 per day (this doesn't include cost of vehicle, supplies, fuel, station, uniforms, holidays, maintenance, equipment, dispatching, supervision/control, billing processing, computer support, etc) $18 per hour on a 40 hour per week schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 8.4 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $37,440 (nothing extra added in...just 40 hours per week) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $50,544 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $424,569.60(assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Average Bill for each transport: $600 Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 2,358 or 6.46 per day $24 per hour on a 24/48 hour schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 6 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $79,872 (nothing extra added in...just 24/48) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $107,827.20 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $646,963.20(assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Average Bill for each transport: $600 Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 3,594 or 9.85 per day $24 per hour on a 40 hour per week schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 8.4 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $49,920 (nothing extra added in...just 40 hours per week) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $67,392 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $566,092.80(assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Same Billing Stats as in first example Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 3,145 or 8.62 per day Which wages are the best? From a field perspective one would want to work the 24/48 hour schedule so that the money really rolled in...from a mgmt perspective, everyone is changing over to 40 hour shifts...and overtime is VERY limited. Either way, just to pay for the minimum staffing, each ambulance has to run between 6.5 to 10 calls per day with each one falling into these assumption parameters to just pay the paramedics. If you want an ambulance, a heart monitor, someone to bill these calls for you so you don't have to in-between calls, band-aids, IV fluids, Backboards, radios, uniforms, etc...the number of calls increases... Although many places run these types of numbers, it is tought to keep these call volumes up PER unit because frequently geography and time on task requirements force these averages lower. Didn't want to go anywhere else with this than to hopefully stir some more thoughts on what we can do to pay the bills so that we can pay our folks as well as each of us think we should get paid. Again, education alone will not fix the problem and with certain beliefs being floated across the country of making even MORE healthcare coming from the Federal Government...we are poised to slide even further backwards...not forwards. Just my thoughts on a lazy Saturday morning. Dudley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 There is one aspect of your information you may not have thought about. Your numbers are assuming a 100% transport ratio. Depending on where you work the number of calls needed to have your 6-10 transports per day might be a much higher number. This would open many more cans of worms for both employees and agencies. Lee Re: EMS Pay Good, Now we have some numbers to work with. Lets look at 2 examples of work schedules under an hourly rate schedule of $18 an hour...then we will look at the same at $24 an hour (we don't want to be greedy). $18 per hour on a 24/48 hour schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 6 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $59,904 (nothing extra added in...just 24/48) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $80,870.40 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $485,222.40 (assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Average Bill for each transport: $600 Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 2,696 or 7.39 per day (this doesn't include cost of vehicle, supplies, fuel, station, uniforms, holidays, maintenance, equipment, dispatching, supervision/control, billing processing, computer support, etc) $18 per hour on a 40 hour per week schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 8.4 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $37,440 (nothing extra added in...just 40 hours per week) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $50,544 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $424,569.60(assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Average Bill for each transport: $600 Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 2,358 or 6.46 per day $24 per hour on a 24/48 hour schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 6 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $79,872 (nothing extra added in...just 24/48) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $107,827.20 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $646,963.20(assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Average Bill for each transport: $600 Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 3,594 or 9.85 per day $24 per hour on a 40 hour per week schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 8.4 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $49,920 (nothing extra added in...just 40 hours per week) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $67,392 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $566,092.80(assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Same Billing Stats as in first example Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 3,145 or 8.62 per day Which wages are the best? From a field perspective one would want to work the 24/48 hour schedule so that the money really rolled in...from a mgmt perspective, everyone is changing over to 40 hour shifts...and overtime is VERY limited. Either way, just to pay for the minimum staffing, each ambulance has to run between 6.5 to 10 calls per day with each one falling into these assumption parameters to just pay the paramedics. If you want an ambulance, a heart monitor, someone to bill these calls for you so you don't have to in-between calls, band-aids, IV fluids, Backboards, radios, uniforms, etc...the number of calls increases... Although many places run these types of numbers, it is tought to keep these call volumes up PER unit because frequently geography and time on task requirements force these averages lower. Didn't want to go anywhere else with this than to hopefully stir some more thoughts on what we can do to pay the bills so that we can pay our folks as well as each of us think we should get paid. Again, education alone will not fix the problem and with certain beliefs being floated across the country of making even MORE healthcare coming from the Federal Government...we are poised to slide even further backwards...not forwards. Just my thoughts on a lazy Saturday morning. Dudley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 Dudley, Thanks for posting this. It is VERY informative and the kind of stuff we need to know. Gene In a message dated 9/11/2004 11:16:53 AM Central Daylight Time, THEDUDMAN@... writes: Good, Now we have some numbers to work with. Lets look at 2 examples of work schedules under an hourly rate schedule of $18 an hour...then we will look at the same at $24 an hour (we don't want to be greedy). $18 per hour on a 24/48 hour schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 6 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $59,904 (nothing extra added in...just 24/48) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $80,870.40 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $485,222.40 (assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Average Bill for each transport: $600 Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 2,696 or 7.39 per day (this doesn't include cost of vehicle, supplies, fuel, station, uniforms, holidays, maintenance, equipment, dispatching, supervision/control, billing processing, computer support, etc) $18 per hour on a 40 hour per week schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 8.4 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $37,440 (nothing extra added in...just 40 hours per week) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $50,544 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $424,569.60(assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Average Bill for each transport: $600 Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 2,358 or 6.46 per day $24 per hour on a 24/48 hour schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 6 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $79,872 (nothing extra added in...just 24/48) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $107,827.20 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $646,963.20(assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Average Bill for each transport: $600 Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 3,594 or 9.85 per day $24 per hour on a 40 hour per week schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 8.4 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $49,920 (nothing extra added in...just 40 hours per week) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $67,392 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $566,092.80(assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Same Billing Stats as in first example Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 3,145 or 8.62 per day Which wages are the best? From a field perspective one would want to work the 24/48 hour schedule so that the money really rolled in...from a mgmt perspective, everyone is changing over to 40 hour shifts...and overtime is VERY limited. Either way, just to pay for the minimum staffing, each ambulance has to run between 6.5 to 10 calls per day with each one falling into these assumption parameters to just pay the paramedics. If you want an ambulance, a heart monitor, someone to bill these calls for you so you don't have to in-between calls, band-aids, IV fluids, Backboards, radios, uniforms, etc...the number of calls increases... Although many places run these types of numbers, it is tought to keep these call volumes up PER unit because frequently geography and time on task requirements force these averages lower. Didn't want to go anywhere else with this than to hopefully stir some more thoughts on what we can do to pay the bills so that we can pay our folks as well as each of us think we should get paid. Again, education alone will not fix the problem and with certain beliefs being floated across the country of making even MORE healthcare coming from the Federal Government...we are poised to slide even further backwards...not forwards. Just my thoughts on a lazy Saturday morning. Dudley ------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 Dudley, Thanks for posting this. It is VERY informative and the kind of stuff we need to know. Gene In a message dated 9/11/2004 11:16:53 AM Central Daylight Time, THEDUDMAN@... writes: Good, Now we have some numbers to work with. Lets look at 2 examples of work schedules under an hourly rate schedule of $18 an hour...then we will look at the same at $24 an hour (we don't want to be greedy). $18 per hour on a 24/48 hour schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 6 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $59,904 (nothing extra added in...just 24/48) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $80,870.40 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $485,222.40 (assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Average Bill for each transport: $600 Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 2,696 or 7.39 per day (this doesn't include cost of vehicle, supplies, fuel, station, uniforms, holidays, maintenance, equipment, dispatching, supervision/control, billing processing, computer support, etc) $18 per hour on a 40 hour per week schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 8.4 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $37,440 (nothing extra added in...just 40 hours per week) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $50,544 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $424,569.60(assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Average Bill for each transport: $600 Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 2,358 or 6.46 per day $24 per hour on a 24/48 hour schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 6 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $79,872 (nothing extra added in...just 24/48) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $107,827.20 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $646,963.20(assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Average Bill for each transport: $600 Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 3,594 or 9.85 per day $24 per hour on a 40 hour per week schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 8.4 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $49,920 (nothing extra added in...just 40 hours per week) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $67,392 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $566,092.80(assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Same Billing Stats as in first example Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 3,145 or 8.62 per day Which wages are the best? From a field perspective one would want to work the 24/48 hour schedule so that the money really rolled in...from a mgmt perspective, everyone is changing over to 40 hour shifts...and overtime is VERY limited. Either way, just to pay for the minimum staffing, each ambulance has to run between 6.5 to 10 calls per day with each one falling into these assumption parameters to just pay the paramedics. If you want an ambulance, a heart monitor, someone to bill these calls for you so you don't have to in-between calls, band-aids, IV fluids, Backboards, radios, uniforms, etc...the number of calls increases... Although many places run these types of numbers, it is tought to keep these call volumes up PER unit because frequently geography and time on task requirements force these averages lower. Didn't want to go anywhere else with this than to hopefully stir some more thoughts on what we can do to pay the bills so that we can pay our folks as well as each of us think we should get paid. Again, education alone will not fix the problem and with certain beliefs being floated across the country of making even MORE healthcare coming from the Federal Government...we are poised to slide even further backwards...not forwards. Just my thoughts on a lazy Saturday morning. Dudley ------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 Dudley, Thanks for posting this. It is VERY informative and the kind of stuff we need to know. Gene In a message dated 9/11/2004 11:16:53 AM Central Daylight Time, THEDUDMAN@... writes: Good, Now we have some numbers to work with. Lets look at 2 examples of work schedules under an hourly rate schedule of $18 an hour...then we will look at the same at $24 an hour (we don't want to be greedy). $18 per hour on a 24/48 hour schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 6 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $59,904 (nothing extra added in...just 24/48) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $80,870.40 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $485,222.40 (assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Average Bill for each transport: $600 Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 2,696 or 7.39 per day (this doesn't include cost of vehicle, supplies, fuel, station, uniforms, holidays, maintenance, equipment, dispatching, supervision/control, billing processing, computer support, etc) $18 per hour on a 40 hour per week schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 8.4 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $37,440 (nothing extra added in...just 40 hours per week) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $50,544 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $424,569.60(assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Average Bill for each transport: $600 Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 2,358 or 6.46 per day $24 per hour on a 24/48 hour schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 6 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $79,872 (nothing extra added in...just 24/48) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $107,827.20 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $646,963.20(assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Average Bill for each transport: $600 Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 3,594 or 9.85 per day $24 per hour on a 40 hour per week schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 8.4 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $49,920 (nothing extra added in...just 40 hours per week) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $67,392 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $566,092.80(assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Same Billing Stats as in first example Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 3,145 or 8.62 per day Which wages are the best? From a field perspective one would want to work the 24/48 hour schedule so that the money really rolled in...from a mgmt perspective, everyone is changing over to 40 hour shifts...and overtime is VERY limited. Either way, just to pay for the minimum staffing, each ambulance has to run between 6.5 to 10 calls per day with each one falling into these assumption parameters to just pay the paramedics. If you want an ambulance, a heart monitor, someone to bill these calls for you so you don't have to in-between calls, band-aids, IV fluids, Backboards, radios, uniforms, etc...the number of calls increases... Although many places run these types of numbers, it is tought to keep these call volumes up PER unit because frequently geography and time on task requirements force these averages lower. Didn't want to go anywhere else with this than to hopefully stir some more thoughts on what we can do to pay the bills so that we can pay our folks as well as each of us think we should get paid. Again, education alone will not fix the problem and with certain beliefs being floated across the country of making even MORE healthcare coming from the Federal Government...we are poised to slide even further backwards...not forwards. Just my thoughts on a lazy Saturday morning. Dudley ------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 I have been looking at one all of you have been saying about EMS pay and whatnot. I like what the gentlemen said about RN's pay and how his wife makes more money than him and I would like to say that that EMS pay these days is just rediculous. I know that people will talk and talk and talk about EMS education and how we don't have " Degrees " and that having more education will make things better. I can't say that I agree with that. You look at people who are tradepersons such as electricians, and plumbers, and ect. They all provide an invaluble commodity to people. They fix up our houses, they come to our homes at all hours of the night in order to fix all kinds of mishaps, and on top of that they spend hours upon hours in our hot attics just so we can have a cool home to come rest in after our long days of work. So my question is... Why is it that people with those kinds of professions make fairly good money? (At least to my knowledge they do.) And as far as I know there is no degree required to do thoose kinds of work. As EMS personel we work ALL hours of the night, we consistantly put up with drunks and drug users, we never get to see our families, and sometimes it seems that the station is your home. We are trained in several different areas of medicine and we are the first thing people think about when something bad happens and someone is hurt. So why is it that people will pay $$$$ to fix a faucet, or to wire a house, or put on a roof... but when it comes to paying for EMS, they won't budge? (I'm talking about taxes for the most part.) And then upon all that we are rarley respected for our knowledge and we are seen as " Ambulance Drivers " Now I know that ultimently EMS is just another business and that the economy does play a large role in how EMS is ran, but I really don't think that all of us having degrees would really help anything. I can think of plenty of other jobs that don't require them and they do make a fairly good amount of money. Maybe we should all have a union? (I have never heard of one, so if there is one, I do stand corrected.) Becuase of the low pay in EMS I have had to go back to college in order to obtain a 4 yr Degree in another field (Although I do love EMS and plan to stay involved in it.) Sometimes it is rather embarising... My girl friend has no degree, no certificatoin, and no formal training and makes quite alot more than I do working for a dialysis company. Now tell me what the justice in that is? Any thoughts and or opinions welcomed. -Txbasic > > Dudley, > > Thanks for posting this. It is VERY informative and the kind of stuff we > need to know. > > Gene > > In a message dated 9/11/2004 11:16:53 AM Central Daylight Time, > THEDUDMAN@a... writes: > > Good, Now we have some numbers to work with. > > Lets look at 2 examples of work schedules under an hourly rate schedule of > $18 an hour...then we will look at the same at $24 an hour (we don't want to > be greedy). > > $18 per hour on a 24/48 hour schedule > # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 6 > Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) > Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $59,904 (nothing extra added in...just > 24/48) > Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $80,870.40 > Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $485,222.40 (assuming no > time off; which is unrealistic) > Average Bill for each transport: $600 > Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% > Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) > Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for > personnel: 2,696 or 7.39 per day (this doesn't include cost of vehicle, > supplies, fuel, station, uniforms, holidays, maintenance, equipment, dispatching, > supervision/control, billing processing, computer support, etc) > > > $18 per hour on a 40 hour per week schedule > # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 8.4 > Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) > Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $37,440 (nothing extra added in...just > 40 hours per week) > Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $50,544 > Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $424,569.60 (assuming no time > off; which is unrealistic) > Average Bill for each transport: $600 > Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% > Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) > Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for > personnel: 2,358 or 6.46 per day > > > $24 per hour on a 24/48 hour schedule > # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 6 > Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) > Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $79,872 (nothing extra added in...just > 24/48) > Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $107,827.20 > Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $646,963.20 (assuming no time > off; which is unrealistic) > Average Bill for each transport: $600 > Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% > Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) > Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for > personnel: 3,594 or 9.85 per day > > > $24 per hour on a 40 hour per week schedule > # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 8.4 > Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) > Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $49,920 (nothing extra added in...just > 40 hours per week) > Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $67,392 > Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $566,092.80 (assuming no time > off; which is unrealistic) > Same Billing Stats as in first example > Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for > personnel: 3,145 or 8.62 per day > > > Which wages are the best? From a field perspective one would want to work > the 24/48 hour schedule so that the money really rolled in...from a mgmt > perspective, everyone is changing over to 40 hour shifts...and overtime is VERY > limited. Either way, just to pay for the minimum staffing, each ambulance has > to run between 6.5 to 10 calls per day with each one falling into these > assumption parameters to just pay the paramedics. If you want an ambulance, a > heart monitor, someone to bill these calls for you so you don't have to > in-between calls, band-aids, IV fluids, Backboards, radios, uniforms, etc...the > number of calls increases... > > Although many places run these types of numbers, it is tought to keep these > call volumes up PER unit because frequently geography and time on task > requirements force these averages lower. > > Didn't want to go anywhere else with this than to hopefully stir some more > thoughts on what we can do to pay the bills so that we can pay our folks as > well as each of us think we should get paid. Again, education alone will not > fix the problem and with certain beliefs being floated across the country of > making even MORE healthcare coming from the Federal Government...we are poised > to slide even further backwards...not forwards. > > Just my thoughts on a lazy Saturday morning. > > Dudley > > > > ------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 > is hurt. So why is it that people will pay $$$$ to fix a faucet, or > to wire a house, or put on a roof... but when it comes to paying for > EMS, they won't budge? (I'm talking about taxes for the most part.) The reason for that is simple. If someone doesn't want to pay the plumber, electrician, etc, the work won't get done. We can't say the same thing for EMS calls. -aro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 > is hurt. So why is it that people will pay $$$$ to fix a faucet, or > to wire a house, or put on a roof... but when it comes to paying for > EMS, they won't budge? (I'm talking about taxes for the most part.) The reason for that is simple. If someone doesn't want to pay the plumber, electrician, etc, the work won't get done. We can't say the same thing for EMS calls. -aro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 > is hurt. So why is it that people will pay $$$$ to fix a faucet, or > to wire a house, or put on a roof... but when it comes to paying for > EMS, they won't budge? (I'm talking about taxes for the most part.) The reason for that is simple. If someone doesn't want to pay the plumber, electrician, etc, the work won't get done. We can't say the same thing for EMS calls. -aro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 In a message dated 9/11/04 11:16:56 AM Central Daylight Time, THEDUDMAN@... writes: $18 per hour on a 24/48 hour schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 6 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $59,904 (nothing extra added in...just 24/48) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $80,870.40 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $485,222.40 (assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Average Bill for each transport: $600 Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 2,696 or 7.39 per day (this doesn't include cost of vehicle, supplies, fuel, station, uniforms, holidays, maintenance, equipment, dispatching, supervision/control, billing processing, computer support, etc) So why the charge so low? >>>>>>>Opening another can of worms>>>>>> I mean $600.00 for a call?? Tell me we are charging what we should for EMS. I understand what Medicare and Medicaid pay. But come on, most places will support a general fee of at least $850.00. So start throwing the tomatoes. Danny L. Owner/NREMT-P Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response (PETSAR) Office FAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 In a message dated 9/11/04 11:16:56 AM Central Daylight Time, THEDUDMAN@... writes: $18 per hour on a 24/48 hour schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 6 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $59,904 (nothing extra added in...just 24/48) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $80,870.40 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $485,222.40 (assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Average Bill for each transport: $600 Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 2,696 or 7.39 per day (this doesn't include cost of vehicle, supplies, fuel, station, uniforms, holidays, maintenance, equipment, dispatching, supervision/control, billing processing, computer support, etc) So why the charge so low? >>>>>>>Opening another can of worms>>>>>> I mean $600.00 for a call?? Tell me we are charging what we should for EMS. I understand what Medicare and Medicaid pay. But come on, most places will support a general fee of at least $850.00. So start throwing the tomatoes. Danny L. Owner/NREMT-P Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response (PETSAR) Office FAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 In a message dated 9/11/04 11:16:56 AM Central Daylight Time, THEDUDMAN@... writes: $18 per hour on a 24/48 hour schedule # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 6 Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $59,904 (nothing extra added in...just 24/48) Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $80,870.40 Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $485,222.40 (assuming no time off; which is unrealistic) Average Bill for each transport: $600 Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for personnel: 2,696 or 7.39 per day (this doesn't include cost of vehicle, supplies, fuel, station, uniforms, holidays, maintenance, equipment, dispatching, supervision/control, billing processing, computer support, etc) So why the charge so low? >>>>>>>Opening another can of worms>>>>>> I mean $600.00 for a call?? Tell me we are charging what we should for EMS. I understand what Medicare and Medicaid pay. But come on, most places will support a general fee of at least $850.00. So start throwing the tomatoes. Danny L. Owner/NREMT-P Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response (PETSAR) Office FAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 Unfortunately EMS Pay adheres to the law of Supply and Demand. As long as Paramedics and EMT's are willing to work for the low wages or volunteer we will not see a rise in salaries until such time as a shortage forces the rise. I love EMS. I love the work of being in the streets and kneeling over grandma who just fell, or the hoodlum that just got shot. How do we get the raise we so much need? Government? Nope. Unions? Nope. We need an emergent shortage of paramedics. To the point where cities, counties and private EMS is going to have to raise their pay rates to attract even Bubba Medic. Until then ... it will be low pay and a wild ride. It would help too if the movies wouldn't portray us as Ambulance drivers. But alas ... here is to wishful thinking. Tom LeNeveu Learning Paramedic EMStock2004 was a RESOUNDING SUCCESS... Come See us Next year. _www.emstock.com_ (http://www.emstock.com/) _www.temsf.org_ (http://www.temsf.org/) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 Unfortunately EMS Pay adheres to the law of Supply and Demand. As long as Paramedics and EMT's are willing to work for the low wages or volunteer we will not see a rise in salaries until such time as a shortage forces the rise. I love EMS. I love the work of being in the streets and kneeling over grandma who just fell, or the hoodlum that just got shot. How do we get the raise we so much need? Government? Nope. Unions? Nope. We need an emergent shortage of paramedics. To the point where cities, counties and private EMS is going to have to raise their pay rates to attract even Bubba Medic. Until then ... it will be low pay and a wild ride. It would help too if the movies wouldn't portray us as Ambulance drivers. But alas ... here is to wishful thinking. Tom LeNeveu Learning Paramedic EMStock2004 was a RESOUNDING SUCCESS... Come See us Next year. _www.emstock.com_ (http://www.emstock.com/) _www.temsf.org_ (http://www.temsf.org/) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 Unfortunately EMS Pay adheres to the law of Supply and Demand. As long as Paramedics and EMT's are willing to work for the low wages or volunteer we will not see a rise in salaries until such time as a shortage forces the rise. I love EMS. I love the work of being in the streets and kneeling over grandma who just fell, or the hoodlum that just got shot. How do we get the raise we so much need? Government? Nope. Unions? Nope. We need an emergent shortage of paramedics. To the point where cities, counties and private EMS is going to have to raise their pay rates to attract even Bubba Medic. Until then ... it will be low pay and a wild ride. It would help too if the movies wouldn't portray us as Ambulance drivers. But alas ... here is to wishful thinking. Tom LeNeveu Learning Paramedic EMStock2004 was a RESOUNDING SUCCESS... Come See us Next year. _www.emstock.com_ (http://www.emstock.com/) _www.temsf.org_ (http://www.temsf.org/) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 Well, here is one reason people don't pay their ambulance bill, and it is the same reason they don't pay any medical bills...the public feels ENTITLED to health care. Of course, most of the one's who don't pay are the biggest users of the system. Yes, this is America and everyone should have access to the healthcare system, but is is not free. If someone's electricity goes out and there goes the airconditioning, this is an EMERGENCY to most people. They know they get no relief until they pay someone to fix it. They have a medical emergency, they call EMS to pick them up, take them to the hospital where (hopefully) they get fixed. Emergency is now over. They got what they needed. They don't want to fork over the money so they tell themselves they are owed medical care. And paid or not, we do come out the next time. Personally, I am all for garnishing wages of those who make no effort to pay their bills, insurance or no insurance. Even if these people paid $10 dollars a month for the rest of their lives it would help. As for the higher education for EMS, I am all for it. As we all know, image is almost everything. And people tend to hold people with degrees in higher regard than those without. This may not be fair, and there are plenty non-degreed EMS personel who should be teaching the people going for degrees, but it is the way it is seen. And more will be asked of EMS in the future, probably to the point where some sort of degree will be required. If all nurses did was pass out pills and give bed baths, they certainly wouldn't need a degree. And as I have mentioned before, EMS hasn't done a lot to promote itself to the public. A lot of people don't know it's more than ambulance driving. Most don't know there is a shortage of EMT's. They don't know about the 24/7, or that is some cases a crew may really be up the whole 24. They certainly didn't like it when they found out their hospital residents are up that long. In nursing you see all these 'Dare to care' commercials and magazine ads, but you don't see this in EMS. WHY IS THIS? Seriously folks, can anyone think of any such promotion? Not even a bulletin board. At least now the public knows there is a shortage and nurses should be paid a respectable wage. But they would be shocked to know that lots of EMS workers are trying to make a living off $8 an hour. The thing is, who has the resources to do all this? Meredith Re: EMS Pay I have been looking at one all of you have been saying about EMS pay and whatnot. I like what the gentlemen said about RN's pay and how his wife makes more money than him and I would like to say that that EMS pay these days is just rediculous. I know that people will talk and talk and talk about EMS education and how we don't have " Degrees " and that having more education will make things better. I can't say that I agree with that. You look at people who are tradepersons such as electricians, and plumbers, and ect. They all provide an invaluble commodity to people. They fix up our houses, they come to our homes at all hours of the night in order to fix all kinds of mishaps, and on top of that they spend hours upon hours in our hot attics just so we can have a cool home to come rest in after our long days of work. So my question is... Why is it that people with those kinds of professions make fairly good money? (At least to my knowledge they do.) And as far as I know there is no degree required to do thoose kinds of work. As EMS personel we work ALL hours of the night, we consistantly put up with drunks and drug users, we never get to see our families, and sometimes it seems that the station is your home. We are trained in several different areas of medicine and we are the first thing people think about when something bad happens and someone is hurt. So why is it that people will pay $$$$ to fix a faucet, or to wire a house, or put on a roof... but when it comes to paying for EMS, they won't budge? (I'm talking about taxes for the most part.) And then upon all that we are rarley respected for our knowledge and we are seen as " Ambulance Drivers " Now I know that ultimently EMS is just another business and that the economy does play a large role in how EMS is ran, but I really don't think that all of us having degrees would really help anything. I can think of plenty of other jobs that don't require them and they do make a fairly good amount of money. Maybe we should all have a union? (I have never heard of one, so if there is one, I do stand corrected.) Becuase of the low pay in EMS I have had to go back to college in order to obtain a 4 yr Degree in another field (Although I do love EMS and plan to stay involved in it.) Sometimes it is rather embarising... My girl friend has no degree, no certificatoin, and no formal training and makes quite alot more than I do working for a dialysis company. Now tell me what the justice in that is? Any thoughts and or opinions welcomed. -Txbasic > > Dudley, > > Thanks for posting this. It is VERY informative and the kind of stuff we > need to know. > > Gene > > In a message dated 9/11/2004 11:16:53 AM Central Daylight Time, > THEDUDMAN@a<mailto:THEDUDMAN@a>... writes: > > Good, Now we have some numbers to work with. > > Lets look at 2 examples of work schedules under an hourly rate schedule of > $18 an hour...then we will look at the same at $24 an hour (we don't want to > be greedy). > > $18 per hour on a 24/48 hour schedule > # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 6 > Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) > Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $59,904 (nothing extra added in...just > 24/48) > Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $80,870.40 > Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $485,222.40 (assuming no > time off; which is unrealistic) > Average Bill for each transport: $600 > Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% > Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) > Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for > personnel: 2,696 or 7.39 per day (this doesn't include cost of vehicle, > supplies, fuel, station, uniforms, holidays, maintenance, equipment, dispatching, > supervision/control, billing processing, computer support, etc) > > > $18 per hour on a 40 hour per week schedule > # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 8.4 > Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) > Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $37,440 (nothing extra added in...just > 40 hours per week) > Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $50,544 > Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $424,569.60 (assuming no time > off; which is unrealistic) > Average Bill for each transport: $600 > Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% > Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) > Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for > personnel: 2,358 or 6.46 per day > > > $24 per hour on a 24/48 hour schedule > # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 6 > Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) > Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $79,872 (nothing extra added in...just > 24/48) > Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $107,827.20 > Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $646,963.20 (assuming no time > off; which is unrealistic) > Average Bill for each transport: $600 > Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% > Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) > Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for > personnel: 3,594 or 9.85 per day > > > $24 per hour on a 40 hour per week schedule > # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 8.4 > Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) > Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $49,920 (nothing extra added in...just > 40 hours per week) > Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $67,392 > Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $566,092.80 (assuming no time > off; which is unrealistic) > Same Billing Stats as in first example > Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for > personnel: 3,145 or 8.62 per day > > > Which wages are the best? From a field perspective one would want to work > the 24/48 hour schedule so that the money really rolled in...from a mgmt > perspective, everyone is changing over to 40 hour shifts...and overtime is VERY > limited. Either way, just to pay for the minimum staffing, each ambulance has > to run between 6.5 to 10 calls per day with each one falling into these > assumption parameters to just pay the paramedics. If you want an ambulance, a > heart monitor, someone to bill these calls for you so you don't have to > in-between calls, band-aids, IV fluids, Backboards, radios, uniforms, etc...the > number of calls increases... > > Although many places run these types of numbers, it is tought to keep these > call volumes up PER unit because frequently geography and time on task > requirements force these averages lower. > > Didn't want to go anywhere else with this than to hopefully stir some more > thoughts on what we can do to pay the bills so that we can pay our folks as > well as each of us think we should get paid. Again, education alone will not > fix the problem and with certain beliefs being floated across the country of > making even MORE healthcare coming from the Federal Government...we are poised > to slide even further backwards...not forwards. > > Just my thoughts on a lazy Saturday morning. > > Dudley > > > > ------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 Well, here is one reason people don't pay their ambulance bill, and it is the same reason they don't pay any medical bills...the public feels ENTITLED to health care. Of course, most of the one's who don't pay are the biggest users of the system. Yes, this is America and everyone should have access to the healthcare system, but is is not free. If someone's electricity goes out and there goes the airconditioning, this is an EMERGENCY to most people. They know they get no relief until they pay someone to fix it. They have a medical emergency, they call EMS to pick them up, take them to the hospital where (hopefully) they get fixed. Emergency is now over. They got what they needed. They don't want to fork over the money so they tell themselves they are owed medical care. And paid or not, we do come out the next time. Personally, I am all for garnishing wages of those who make no effort to pay their bills, insurance or no insurance. Even if these people paid $10 dollars a month for the rest of their lives it would help. As for the higher education for EMS, I am all for it. As we all know, image is almost everything. And people tend to hold people with degrees in higher regard than those without. This may not be fair, and there are plenty non-degreed EMS personel who should be teaching the people going for degrees, but it is the way it is seen. And more will be asked of EMS in the future, probably to the point where some sort of degree will be required. If all nurses did was pass out pills and give bed baths, they certainly wouldn't need a degree. And as I have mentioned before, EMS hasn't done a lot to promote itself to the public. A lot of people don't know it's more than ambulance driving. Most don't know there is a shortage of EMT's. They don't know about the 24/7, or that is some cases a crew may really be up the whole 24. They certainly didn't like it when they found out their hospital residents are up that long. In nursing you see all these 'Dare to care' commercials and magazine ads, but you don't see this in EMS. WHY IS THIS? Seriously folks, can anyone think of any such promotion? Not even a bulletin board. At least now the public knows there is a shortage and nurses should be paid a respectable wage. But they would be shocked to know that lots of EMS workers are trying to make a living off $8 an hour. The thing is, who has the resources to do all this? Meredith Re: EMS Pay I have been looking at one all of you have been saying about EMS pay and whatnot. I like what the gentlemen said about RN's pay and how his wife makes more money than him and I would like to say that that EMS pay these days is just rediculous. I know that people will talk and talk and talk about EMS education and how we don't have " Degrees " and that having more education will make things better. I can't say that I agree with that. You look at people who are tradepersons such as electricians, and plumbers, and ect. They all provide an invaluble commodity to people. They fix up our houses, they come to our homes at all hours of the night in order to fix all kinds of mishaps, and on top of that they spend hours upon hours in our hot attics just so we can have a cool home to come rest in after our long days of work. So my question is... Why is it that people with those kinds of professions make fairly good money? (At least to my knowledge they do.) And as far as I know there is no degree required to do thoose kinds of work. As EMS personel we work ALL hours of the night, we consistantly put up with drunks and drug users, we never get to see our families, and sometimes it seems that the station is your home. We are trained in several different areas of medicine and we are the first thing people think about when something bad happens and someone is hurt. So why is it that people will pay $$$$ to fix a faucet, or to wire a house, or put on a roof... but when it comes to paying for EMS, they won't budge? (I'm talking about taxes for the most part.) And then upon all that we are rarley respected for our knowledge and we are seen as " Ambulance Drivers " Now I know that ultimently EMS is just another business and that the economy does play a large role in how EMS is ran, but I really don't think that all of us having degrees would really help anything. I can think of plenty of other jobs that don't require them and they do make a fairly good amount of money. Maybe we should all have a union? (I have never heard of one, so if there is one, I do stand corrected.) Becuase of the low pay in EMS I have had to go back to college in order to obtain a 4 yr Degree in another field (Although I do love EMS and plan to stay involved in it.) Sometimes it is rather embarising... My girl friend has no degree, no certificatoin, and no formal training and makes quite alot more than I do working for a dialysis company. Now tell me what the justice in that is? Any thoughts and or opinions welcomed. -Txbasic > > Dudley, > > Thanks for posting this. It is VERY informative and the kind of stuff we > need to know. > > Gene > > In a message dated 9/11/2004 11:16:53 AM Central Daylight Time, > THEDUDMAN@a<mailto:THEDUDMAN@a>... writes: > > Good, Now we have some numbers to work with. > > Lets look at 2 examples of work schedules under an hourly rate schedule of > $18 an hour...then we will look at the same at $24 an hour (we don't want to > be greedy). > > $18 per hour on a 24/48 hour schedule > # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 6 > Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) > Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $59,904 (nothing extra added in...just > 24/48) > Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $80,870.40 > Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $485,222.40 (assuming no > time off; which is unrealistic) > Average Bill for each transport: $600 > Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% > Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) > Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for > personnel: 2,696 or 7.39 per day (this doesn't include cost of vehicle, > supplies, fuel, station, uniforms, holidays, maintenance, equipment, dispatching, > supervision/control, billing processing, computer support, etc) > > > $18 per hour on a 40 hour per week schedule > # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 8.4 > Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) > Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $37,440 (nothing extra added in...just > 40 hours per week) > Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $50,544 > Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $424,569.60 (assuming no time > off; which is unrealistic) > Average Bill for each transport: $600 > Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% > Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) > Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for > personnel: 2,358 or 6.46 per day > > > $24 per hour on a 24/48 hour schedule > # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 6 > Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) > Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $79,872 (nothing extra added in...just > 24/48) > Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $107,827.20 > Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $646,963.20 (assuming no time > off; which is unrealistic) > Average Bill for each transport: $600 > Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% > Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) > Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for > personnel: 3,594 or 9.85 per day > > > $24 per hour on a 40 hour per week schedule > # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 8.4 > Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) > Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $49,920 (nothing extra added in...just > 40 hours per week) > Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $67,392 > Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $566,092.80 (assuming no time > off; which is unrealistic) > Same Billing Stats as in first example > Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for > personnel: 3,145 or 8.62 per day > > > Which wages are the best? From a field perspective one would want to work > the 24/48 hour schedule so that the money really rolled in...from a mgmt > perspective, everyone is changing over to 40 hour shifts...and overtime is VERY > limited. Either way, just to pay for the minimum staffing, each ambulance has > to run between 6.5 to 10 calls per day with each one falling into these > assumption parameters to just pay the paramedics. If you want an ambulance, a > heart monitor, someone to bill these calls for you so you don't have to > in-between calls, band-aids, IV fluids, Backboards, radios, uniforms, etc...the > number of calls increases... > > Although many places run these types of numbers, it is tought to keep these > call volumes up PER unit because frequently geography and time on task > requirements force these averages lower. > > Didn't want to go anywhere else with this than to hopefully stir some more > thoughts on what we can do to pay the bills so that we can pay our folks as > well as each of us think we should get paid. Again, education alone will not > fix the problem and with certain beliefs being floated across the country of > making even MORE healthcare coming from the Federal Government...we are poised > to slide even further backwards...not forwards. > > Just my thoughts on a lazy Saturday morning. > > Dudley > > > > ------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 Well, here is one reason people don't pay their ambulance bill, and it is the same reason they don't pay any medical bills...the public feels ENTITLED to health care. Of course, most of the one's who don't pay are the biggest users of the system. Yes, this is America and everyone should have access to the healthcare system, but is is not free. If someone's electricity goes out and there goes the airconditioning, this is an EMERGENCY to most people. They know they get no relief until they pay someone to fix it. They have a medical emergency, they call EMS to pick them up, take them to the hospital where (hopefully) they get fixed. Emergency is now over. They got what they needed. They don't want to fork over the money so they tell themselves they are owed medical care. And paid or not, we do come out the next time. Personally, I am all for garnishing wages of those who make no effort to pay their bills, insurance or no insurance. Even if these people paid $10 dollars a month for the rest of their lives it would help. As for the higher education for EMS, I am all for it. As we all know, image is almost everything. And people tend to hold people with degrees in higher regard than those without. This may not be fair, and there are plenty non-degreed EMS personel who should be teaching the people going for degrees, but it is the way it is seen. And more will be asked of EMS in the future, probably to the point where some sort of degree will be required. If all nurses did was pass out pills and give bed baths, they certainly wouldn't need a degree. And as I have mentioned before, EMS hasn't done a lot to promote itself to the public. A lot of people don't know it's more than ambulance driving. Most don't know there is a shortage of EMT's. They don't know about the 24/7, or that is some cases a crew may really be up the whole 24. They certainly didn't like it when they found out their hospital residents are up that long. In nursing you see all these 'Dare to care' commercials and magazine ads, but you don't see this in EMS. WHY IS THIS? Seriously folks, can anyone think of any such promotion? Not even a bulletin board. At least now the public knows there is a shortage and nurses should be paid a respectable wage. But they would be shocked to know that lots of EMS workers are trying to make a living off $8 an hour. The thing is, who has the resources to do all this? Meredith Re: EMS Pay I have been looking at one all of you have been saying about EMS pay and whatnot. I like what the gentlemen said about RN's pay and how his wife makes more money than him and I would like to say that that EMS pay these days is just rediculous. I know that people will talk and talk and talk about EMS education and how we don't have " Degrees " and that having more education will make things better. I can't say that I agree with that. You look at people who are tradepersons such as electricians, and plumbers, and ect. They all provide an invaluble commodity to people. They fix up our houses, they come to our homes at all hours of the night in order to fix all kinds of mishaps, and on top of that they spend hours upon hours in our hot attics just so we can have a cool home to come rest in after our long days of work. So my question is... Why is it that people with those kinds of professions make fairly good money? (At least to my knowledge they do.) And as far as I know there is no degree required to do thoose kinds of work. As EMS personel we work ALL hours of the night, we consistantly put up with drunks and drug users, we never get to see our families, and sometimes it seems that the station is your home. We are trained in several different areas of medicine and we are the first thing people think about when something bad happens and someone is hurt. So why is it that people will pay $$$$ to fix a faucet, or to wire a house, or put on a roof... but when it comes to paying for EMS, they won't budge? (I'm talking about taxes for the most part.) And then upon all that we are rarley respected for our knowledge and we are seen as " Ambulance Drivers " Now I know that ultimently EMS is just another business and that the economy does play a large role in how EMS is ran, but I really don't think that all of us having degrees would really help anything. I can think of plenty of other jobs that don't require them and they do make a fairly good amount of money. Maybe we should all have a union? (I have never heard of one, so if there is one, I do stand corrected.) Becuase of the low pay in EMS I have had to go back to college in order to obtain a 4 yr Degree in another field (Although I do love EMS and plan to stay involved in it.) Sometimes it is rather embarising... My girl friend has no degree, no certificatoin, and no formal training and makes quite alot more than I do working for a dialysis company. Now tell me what the justice in that is? Any thoughts and or opinions welcomed. -Txbasic > > Dudley, > > Thanks for posting this. It is VERY informative and the kind of stuff we > need to know. > > Gene > > In a message dated 9/11/2004 11:16:53 AM Central Daylight Time, > THEDUDMAN@a<mailto:THEDUDMAN@a>... writes: > > Good, Now we have some numbers to work with. > > Lets look at 2 examples of work schedules under an hourly rate schedule of > $18 an hour...then we will look at the same at $24 an hour (we don't want to > be greedy). > > $18 per hour on a 24/48 hour schedule > # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 6 > Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) > Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $59,904 (nothing extra added in...just > 24/48) > Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $80,870.40 > Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $485,222.40 (assuming no > time off; which is unrealistic) > Average Bill for each transport: $600 > Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% > Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) > Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for > personnel: 2,696 or 7.39 per day (this doesn't include cost of vehicle, > supplies, fuel, station, uniforms, holidays, maintenance, equipment, dispatching, > supervision/control, billing processing, computer support, etc) > > > $18 per hour on a 40 hour per week schedule > # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 8.4 > Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) > Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $37,440 (nothing extra added in...just > 40 hours per week) > Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $50,544 > Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $424,569.60 (assuming no time > off; which is unrealistic) > Average Bill for each transport: $600 > Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% > Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) > Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for > personnel: 2,358 or 6.46 per day > > > $24 per hour on a 24/48 hour schedule > # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 6 > Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) > Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $79,872 (nothing extra added in...just > 24/48) > Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $107,827.20 > Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $646,963.20 (assuming no time > off; which is unrealistic) > Average Bill for each transport: $600 > Assumed Transport Percentage: 60% > Assumed Gross Collection Percentage: 50% (including contractuals) > Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for > personnel: 3,594 or 9.85 per day > > > $24 per hour on a 40 hour per week schedule > # of employees needed for one truck 24-7 = 8.4 > Cost of full-time benefits/taxes (35% of annual salary) > Annual gross salary of one Paramedic: $49,920 (nothing extra added in...just > 40 hours per week) > Annual cost of this one Paramedic: $67,392 > Annual total cost of ONE ambulance staffed 24-7 $566,092.80 (assuming no time > off; which is unrealistic) > Same Billing Stats as in first example > Number of calls needed to run annually by this ONE unit to JUST pay for > personnel: 3,145 or 8.62 per day > > > Which wages are the best? From a field perspective one would want to work > the 24/48 hour schedule so that the money really rolled in...from a mgmt > perspective, everyone is changing over to 40 hour shifts...and overtime is VERY > limited. Either way, just to pay for the minimum staffing, each ambulance has > to run between 6.5 to 10 calls per day with each one falling into these > assumption parameters to just pay the paramedics. If you want an ambulance, a > heart monitor, someone to bill these calls for you so you don't have to > in-between calls, band-aids, IV fluids, Backboards, radios, uniforms, etc...the > number of calls increases... > > Although many places run these types of numbers, it is tought to keep these > call volumes up PER unit because frequently geography and time on task > requirements force these averages lower. > > Didn't want to go anywhere else with this than to hopefully stir some more > thoughts on what we can do to pay the bills so that we can pay our folks as > well as each of us think we should get paid. Again, education alone will not > fix the problem and with certain beliefs being floated across the country of > making even MORE healthcare coming from the Federal Government...we are poised > to slide even further backwards...not forwards. > > Just my thoughts on a lazy Saturday morning. > > Dudley > > > > ------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 > > >In nursing you see all these 'Dare to care' commercials and magazine ads, but you don't see this in EMS. WHY IS THIS? > Simply put, because so many of those who receive care don't pay for it, and the owners of the ambulance services are trying to get all the profit they can, so after paying the medics they already have, and taking care of the rest of the bills (maintenance, restock, insurance, tax's, etc.) advertising is pretty low on the list of priorities so it would be surprising to see more than a want ad. Anything more dips into the (some say much too thin) profits. Just a thought. Meredith Vetterick wrote: > Well, here is one reason people don't pay their ambulance bill, and it is the same reason they don't pay any medical bills...the public feels ENTITLED to health care. Of course, most of the one's who don't pay are the biggest users of the system. Yes, this is America and everyone should have access to the healthcare system, but is is not free. If someone's electricity goes out and there goes the airconditioning, this is an EMERGENCY to most people. They know they get no relief until they pay someone to fix it. They have a medical emergency, they call EMS to pick them up, take them to the hospital where (hopefully) they get fixed. Emergency is now over. They got what they needed. They don't want to fork over the money so they tell themselves they are owed medical care. And paid or not, we do come out the next time. Personally, I am all for garnishing wages of those who make no effort to pay their bills, insurance or no insurance. Even if these people paid $10 dollars ! > a month for the rest of their lives it would help. > As for the higher education for EMS, I am all for it. As we all know, image is almost everything. And people tend to hold people with degrees in higher regard than those without. This may not be fair, and there are plenty non-degreed EMS personel who should be teaching the people going for degrees, but it is the way it is seen. And more will be asked of EMS in the future, probably to the point where some sort of degree will be required. If all nurses did was pass out pills and give bed baths, they certainly wouldn't need a degree. > And as I have mentioned before, EMS hasn't done a lot to promote itself to the public. A lot of people don't know it's more than ambulance driving. Most don't know there is a shortage of EMT's. They don't know about the 24/7, or that is some cases a crew may really be up the whole 24. They certainly didn't like it when they found out their hospital residents are up that long. In nursing you see all these 'Dare to care' commercials and magazine ads, but you don't see this in EMS. WHY IS THIS? Seriously folks, can anyone think of any such promotion? Not even a bulletin board. At least now the public knows there is a shortage and nurses should be paid a respectable wage. But they would be shocked to know that lots of EMS workers are trying to make a living off $8 an hour. The thing is, who has the resources to do all this? >Meredith > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 > > >In nursing you see all these 'Dare to care' commercials and magazine ads, but you don't see this in EMS. WHY IS THIS? > Simply put, because so many of those who receive care don't pay for it, and the owners of the ambulance services are trying to get all the profit they can, so after paying the medics they already have, and taking care of the rest of the bills (maintenance, restock, insurance, tax's, etc.) advertising is pretty low on the list of priorities so it would be surprising to see more than a want ad. Anything more dips into the (some say much too thin) profits. Just a thought. Meredith Vetterick wrote: > Well, here is one reason people don't pay their ambulance bill, and it is the same reason they don't pay any medical bills...the public feels ENTITLED to health care. Of course, most of the one's who don't pay are the biggest users of the system. Yes, this is America and everyone should have access to the healthcare system, but is is not free. If someone's electricity goes out and there goes the airconditioning, this is an EMERGENCY to most people. They know they get no relief until they pay someone to fix it. They have a medical emergency, they call EMS to pick them up, take them to the hospital where (hopefully) they get fixed. Emergency is now over. They got what they needed. They don't want to fork over the money so they tell themselves they are owed medical care. And paid or not, we do come out the next time. Personally, I am all for garnishing wages of those who make no effort to pay their bills, insurance or no insurance. Even if these people paid $10 dollars ! > a month for the rest of their lives it would help. > As for the higher education for EMS, I am all for it. As we all know, image is almost everything. And people tend to hold people with degrees in higher regard than those without. This may not be fair, and there are plenty non-degreed EMS personel who should be teaching the people going for degrees, but it is the way it is seen. And more will be asked of EMS in the future, probably to the point where some sort of degree will be required. If all nurses did was pass out pills and give bed baths, they certainly wouldn't need a degree. > And as I have mentioned before, EMS hasn't done a lot to promote itself to the public. A lot of people don't know it's more than ambulance driving. Most don't know there is a shortage of EMT's. They don't know about the 24/7, or that is some cases a crew may really be up the whole 24. They certainly didn't like it when they found out their hospital residents are up that long. In nursing you see all these 'Dare to care' commercials and magazine ads, but you don't see this in EMS. WHY IS THIS? Seriously folks, can anyone think of any such promotion? Not even a bulletin board. At least now the public knows there is a shortage and nurses should be paid a respectable wage. But they would be shocked to know that lots of EMS workers are trying to make a living off $8 an hour. The thing is, who has the resources to do all this? >Meredith > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 > > >In nursing you see all these 'Dare to care' commercials and magazine ads, but you don't see this in EMS. WHY IS THIS? > Simply put, because so many of those who receive care don't pay for it, and the owners of the ambulance services are trying to get all the profit they can, so after paying the medics they already have, and taking care of the rest of the bills (maintenance, restock, insurance, tax's, etc.) advertising is pretty low on the list of priorities so it would be surprising to see more than a want ad. Anything more dips into the (some say much too thin) profits. Just a thought. Meredith Vetterick wrote: > Well, here is one reason people don't pay their ambulance bill, and it is the same reason they don't pay any medical bills...the public feels ENTITLED to health care. Of course, most of the one's who don't pay are the biggest users of the system. Yes, this is America and everyone should have access to the healthcare system, but is is not free. If someone's electricity goes out and there goes the airconditioning, this is an EMERGENCY to most people. They know they get no relief until they pay someone to fix it. They have a medical emergency, they call EMS to pick them up, take them to the hospital where (hopefully) they get fixed. Emergency is now over. They got what they needed. They don't want to fork over the money so they tell themselves they are owed medical care. And paid or not, we do come out the next time. Personally, I am all for garnishing wages of those who make no effort to pay their bills, insurance or no insurance. Even if these people paid $10 dollars ! > a month for the rest of their lives it would help. > As for the higher education for EMS, I am all for it. As we all know, image is almost everything. And people tend to hold people with degrees in higher regard than those without. This may not be fair, and there are plenty non-degreed EMS personel who should be teaching the people going for degrees, but it is the way it is seen. And more will be asked of EMS in the future, probably to the point where some sort of degree will be required. If all nurses did was pass out pills and give bed baths, they certainly wouldn't need a degree. > And as I have mentioned before, EMS hasn't done a lot to promote itself to the public. A lot of people don't know it's more than ambulance driving. Most don't know there is a shortage of EMT's. They don't know about the 24/7, or that is some cases a crew may really be up the whole 24. They certainly didn't like it when they found out their hospital residents are up that long. In nursing you see all these 'Dare to care' commercials and magazine ads, but you don't see this in EMS. WHY IS THIS? Seriously folks, can anyone think of any such promotion? Not even a bulletin board. At least now the public knows there is a shortage and nurses should be paid a respectable wage. But they would be shocked to know that lots of EMS workers are trying to make a living off $8 an hour. The thing is, who has the resources to do all this? >Meredith > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 Pt Barnum once said I hear people say they cant afford to advertise, but I say they cant afford not to advertise. ====================================================== Re: Re: EMS Pay > > >In nursing you see all these 'Dare to care' commercials and magazine ads, but you don't see this in EMS. WHY IS THIS? > Simply put, because so many of those who receive care don't pay for it, and the owners of the ambulance services are trying to get all the profit they can, so after paying the medics they already have, and taking care of the rest of the bills (maintenance, restock, insurance, tax's, etc.) advertising is pretty low on the list of priorities so it would be surprising to see more than a want ad. Anything more dips into the (some say much too thin) profits. Just a thought. Meredith Vetterick wrote: > Well, here is one reason people don't pay their ambulance bill, and it is the same reason they don't pay any medical bills...the public feels ENTITLED to health care. Of course, most of the one's who don't pay are the biggest users of the system. Yes, this is America and everyone should have access to the healthcare system, but is is not free. If someone's electricity goes out and there goes the airconditioning, this is an EMERGENCY to most people. They know they get no relief until they pay someone to fix it. They have a medical emergency, they call EMS to pick them up, take them to the hospital where (hopefully) they get fixed. Emergency is now over. They got what they needed. They don't want to fork over the money so they tell themselves they are owed medical care. And paid or not, we do come out the next time. Personally, I am all for garnishing wages of those who make no effort to pay their bills, insurance or no insurance. ! Even if these people paid $10 dollars ! > a month for the rest of their lives it would help. > As for the higher education for EMS, I am all for it. As we all know, image is almost everything. And people tend to hold people with degrees in higher regard than those without. This may not be fair, and there are plenty non-degreed EMS personel who should be teaching the people going for degrees, but it is the way it is seen. And more will be asked of EMS in the future, probably to the point where some sort of degree will be required. If all nurses did was pass out pills and give bed baths, they certainly wouldn't need a degree. > And as I have mentioned before, EMS hasn't done a lot to promote itself to the public. A lot of people don't know it's more than ambulance driving. Most don't know there is a shortage of EMT's. They don't know about the 24/7, or that is some cases a crew may really be up the whole 24. They certainly didn't like it when they found out their hospital residents are up that long. In nursing you see all these 'Dare to care' commercials and magazine ads, but you don't see this in EMS. WHY IS THIS? Seriously folks, can anyone think of any such promotion? Not even a bulletin board. At least now the public knows there is a shortage and nurses should be paid a respectable wage. But they would be shocked to know that lots of EMS workers are trying to make a living off $8 an hour. The thing is, who has the resources to do all this? >Meredith > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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