Guest guest Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 ((((Jaie)))) No, dear, I don't think you are at all bad or wrong in God's eyes for not wanting to be out of harm's way! I'll be real honest here, I don't know what I believe when it comes to religion or if I believe at all, but if God is real and the loving being he is purported to be by Christian, Jewish & Muslim faiths... why on earth would he want you to be abused? Also, no, I don't think you are delusional at all! Granted I only know you from this group but what I see you post shines through to me that you ARE kind, loving & gentle. You're human. You're allowed to be angry for the things your mother has done. Hopefully one day we can all work towards forgiveness however I don't think that necessarily means we have to have relationships with them either because chances are they will only continue to abuse us. Forgiveness is one thing, masochism is another... catch my drift? The things they have said to you, they sound an awful lot like what Annie was hearing from people at that bpdfamily group. We are human, we process pain, grief, trauma in our own ways. There tend to be steps we go through to get to a point of forgiveness. I'm honestly not sure I'll ever get there. But if people can't understand that forgiveness is not something you just instantaneously acquire, I can't help but wonder what's going on with them? They're human too. You, as a human being & God's creature have a RIGHT to be free of abuse. Like I said, I don't know if I believe in God or not... but I cannot imagine he'd want you to be tormented like that. Anyway, I'm not good with words or with expressing myself so I hope you catch my drift lol. Also not trying to offend by dragging up a bit of my own thoughts on religion. Mia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 ((((Jaie)))) No, dear, I don't think you are at all bad or wrong in God's eyes for not wanting to be out of harm's way! I'll be real honest here, I don't know what I believe when it comes to religion or if I believe at all, but if God is real and the loving being he is purported to be by Christian, Jewish & Muslim faiths... why on earth would he want you to be abused? Also, no, I don't think you are delusional at all! Granted I only know you from this group but what I see you post shines through to me that you ARE kind, loving & gentle. You're human. You're allowed to be angry for the things your mother has done. Hopefully one day we can all work towards forgiveness however I don't think that necessarily means we have to have relationships with them either because chances are they will only continue to abuse us. Forgiveness is one thing, masochism is another... catch my drift? The things they have said to you, they sound an awful lot like what Annie was hearing from people at that bpdfamily group. We are human, we process pain, grief, trauma in our own ways. There tend to be steps we go through to get to a point of forgiveness. I'm honestly not sure I'll ever get there. But if people can't understand that forgiveness is not something you just instantaneously acquire, I can't help but wonder what's going on with them? They're human too. You, as a human being & God's creature have a RIGHT to be free of abuse. Like I said, I don't know if I believe in God or not... but I cannot imagine he'd want you to be tormented like that. Anyway, I'm not good with words or with expressing myself so I hope you catch my drift lol. Also not trying to offend by dragging up a bit of my own thoughts on religion. Mia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 ((((Jaie)))) No, dear, I don't think you are at all bad or wrong in God's eyes for not wanting to be out of harm's way! I'll be real honest here, I don't know what I believe when it comes to religion or if I believe at all, but if God is real and the loving being he is purported to be by Christian, Jewish & Muslim faiths... why on earth would he want you to be abused? Also, no, I don't think you are delusional at all! Granted I only know you from this group but what I see you post shines through to me that you ARE kind, loving & gentle. You're human. You're allowed to be angry for the things your mother has done. Hopefully one day we can all work towards forgiveness however I don't think that necessarily means we have to have relationships with them either because chances are they will only continue to abuse us. Forgiveness is one thing, masochism is another... catch my drift? The things they have said to you, they sound an awful lot like what Annie was hearing from people at that bpdfamily group. We are human, we process pain, grief, trauma in our own ways. There tend to be steps we go through to get to a point of forgiveness. I'm honestly not sure I'll ever get there. But if people can't understand that forgiveness is not something you just instantaneously acquire, I can't help but wonder what's going on with them? They're human too. You, as a human being & God's creature have a RIGHT to be free of abuse. Like I said, I don't know if I believe in God or not... but I cannot imagine he'd want you to be tormented like that. Anyway, I'm not good with words or with expressing myself so I hope you catch my drift lol. Also not trying to offend by dragging up a bit of my own thoughts on religion. Mia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 An after thought... if we're just supposed to stand by & let our nadas & fadas abuse us and just forgive & keep putting ourselves in the line of abuse... would they expect a rape victim to continuously allow herself to be raped over & over? Would they tell her to just go with it? I would think & hope NOT. I think it's a very skewed view of abuse and abuse survivors and really makes me want to advocate for us even more. I'll shut up now. Mia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 An after thought... if we're just supposed to stand by & let our nadas & fadas abuse us and just forgive & keep putting ourselves in the line of abuse... would they expect a rape victim to continuously allow herself to be raped over & over? Would they tell her to just go with it? I would think & hope NOT. I think it's a very skewed view of abuse and abuse survivors and really makes me want to advocate for us even more. I'll shut up now. Mia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 An after thought... if we're just supposed to stand by & let our nadas & fadas abuse us and just forgive & keep putting ourselves in the line of abuse... would they expect a rape victim to continuously allow herself to be raped over & over? Would they tell her to just go with it? I would think & hope NOT. I think it's a very skewed view of abuse and abuse survivors and really makes me want to advocate for us even more. I'll shut up now. Mia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 I second, third, and fourth this statement. > > An after thought... if we're just supposed to stand by & let our nadas & > fadas abuse us and just forgive & keep putting ourselves in the line of > abuse... would they expect a rape victim to continuously allow herself to be > raped over & over? Would they tell her to just go with it? I would think & > hope NOT. > > I think it's a very skewed view of abuse and abuse survivors and really > makes me want to advocate for us even more. > > I'll shut up now. > > Mia > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 I second, third, and fourth this statement. > > An after thought... if we're just supposed to stand by & let our nadas & > fadas abuse us and just forgive & keep putting ourselves in the line of > abuse... would they expect a rape victim to continuously allow herself to be > raped over & over? Would they tell her to just go with it? I would think & > hope NOT. > > I think it's a very skewed view of abuse and abuse survivors and really > makes me want to advocate for us even more. > > I'll shut up now. > > Mia > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 I second, third, and fourth this statement. > > An after thought... if we're just supposed to stand by & let our nadas & > fadas abuse us and just forgive & keep putting ourselves in the line of > abuse... would they expect a rape victim to continuously allow herself to be > raped over & over? Would they tell her to just go with it? I would think & > hope NOT. > > I think it's a very skewed view of abuse and abuse survivors and really > makes me want to advocate for us even more. > > I'll shut up now. > > Mia > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Awh thanks Mia - no offense at all. I understand most faiths and the paths of no faith. To each his or her own. Someone told me I needed to forgive nada. I told them that I had forgiven her. They flat out said, if I had truly forgiven her, she'd still be in my life. I explained, heck no, that just means there'd be more abuse for me to heal. That's when I got lectured about how I love nada conditionally, to which I replied I absolutely love her without condition despite the fact that she's abusive - but I won't let her abuse me any more. That's when I was firmly told that I was inacpable of unconditional love. I don't believe that and maybe I'm just having a bad day ( I did her that post hysterectomy weird emotions can show up out of the blue). LOL The truth is - no matter what my mom does to me or says to me, I still love her. If that isn't unconditional love, I don't know what is. I also love myself unconditionally so will go to any lengths I need to in order to protect myself from harmful people (and that usually involves me terminating relationships or withdrawing - I never go on the assault and typically will only fight back when people will not allow me to walk away and force me to stand and fight). I appreciate what you said very much. I guess i just needed a little revalidation. My guilt is insanity. This I know. Society sometimes picks up where nada left off unwittingly causing harm. I think that these " spiritual " people should lay off inappropriate judgment in a one size fits all fashion using the Bible or other scriptures to make people feel bad about themselves. I'm finding a lot of new agers to be really callus while parotting spiritual words they truly do not comprehend. I'm a bit of a new ager too but I steer clear of anything callus or harmful to the individual and strive to help people understand. I use love to support and help people heal NOT to distort and impose fear! UGH~! Thanks again Mia ((((hugs))))) I feel so much better. Jaie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Awh thanks Mia - no offense at all. I understand most faiths and the paths of no faith. To each his or her own. Someone told me I needed to forgive nada. I told them that I had forgiven her. They flat out said, if I had truly forgiven her, she'd still be in my life. I explained, heck no, that just means there'd be more abuse for me to heal. That's when I got lectured about how I love nada conditionally, to which I replied I absolutely love her without condition despite the fact that she's abusive - but I won't let her abuse me any more. That's when I was firmly told that I was inacpable of unconditional love. I don't believe that and maybe I'm just having a bad day ( I did her that post hysterectomy weird emotions can show up out of the blue). LOL The truth is - no matter what my mom does to me or says to me, I still love her. If that isn't unconditional love, I don't know what is. I also love myself unconditionally so will go to any lengths I need to in order to protect myself from harmful people (and that usually involves me terminating relationships or withdrawing - I never go on the assault and typically will only fight back when people will not allow me to walk away and force me to stand and fight). I appreciate what you said very much. I guess i just needed a little revalidation. My guilt is insanity. This I know. Society sometimes picks up where nada left off unwittingly causing harm. I think that these " spiritual " people should lay off inappropriate judgment in a one size fits all fashion using the Bible or other scriptures to make people feel bad about themselves. I'm finding a lot of new agers to be really callus while parotting spiritual words they truly do not comprehend. I'm a bit of a new ager too but I steer clear of anything callus or harmful to the individual and strive to help people understand. I use love to support and help people heal NOT to distort and impose fear! UGH~! Thanks again Mia ((((hugs))))) I feel so much better. Jaie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Awh thanks Mia - no offense at all. I understand most faiths and the paths of no faith. To each his or her own. Someone told me I needed to forgive nada. I told them that I had forgiven her. They flat out said, if I had truly forgiven her, she'd still be in my life. I explained, heck no, that just means there'd be more abuse for me to heal. That's when I got lectured about how I love nada conditionally, to which I replied I absolutely love her without condition despite the fact that she's abusive - but I won't let her abuse me any more. That's when I was firmly told that I was inacpable of unconditional love. I don't believe that and maybe I'm just having a bad day ( I did her that post hysterectomy weird emotions can show up out of the blue). LOL The truth is - no matter what my mom does to me or says to me, I still love her. If that isn't unconditional love, I don't know what is. I also love myself unconditionally so will go to any lengths I need to in order to protect myself from harmful people (and that usually involves me terminating relationships or withdrawing - I never go on the assault and typically will only fight back when people will not allow me to walk away and force me to stand and fight). I appreciate what you said very much. I guess i just needed a little revalidation. My guilt is insanity. This I know. Society sometimes picks up where nada left off unwittingly causing harm. I think that these " spiritual " people should lay off inappropriate judgment in a one size fits all fashion using the Bible or other scriptures to make people feel bad about themselves. I'm finding a lot of new agers to be really callus while parotting spiritual words they truly do not comprehend. I'm a bit of a new ager too but I steer clear of anything callus or harmful to the individual and strive to help people understand. I use love to support and help people heal NOT to distort and impose fear! UGH~! Thanks again Mia ((((hugs))))) I feel so much better. Jaie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Jaie! Who is this person who feels they have the right to judge you? Tell them to take the plank out of their own eye--they don't know what they are talking about. And why do they get to decide what is an appropriate relationship between you and your nada? You want all the best for her, but unfortunately she will not recognize her problems and you will not watch her destroy herself and those around her. This is no different that dealing with an addict. Would you enable an addict? No! Don't let other people judge you. You know what's best for you, not this fool who has no clue what you're dealing with. (Sorry for the strong words. I'm just so upset on your behalf that someone who clearly doesn't understand the illness your nada has is trying to tell you how to deal with it.) > > > Awh thanks Mia - no offense at all. I understand most faiths and the paths of no faith. To each his or her own. > > Someone told me I needed to forgive nada. I told them that I had forgiven her. They flat out said, if I had truly forgiven her, she'd still be in my life. I explained, heck no, that just means there'd be more abuse for me to heal. That's when I got lectured about how I love nada conditionally, to which I replied I absolutely love her without condition despite the fact that she's abusive - but I won't let her abuse me any more. That's when I was firmly told that I was inacpable of unconditional love. I don't believe that and maybe I'm just having a bad day ( I did her that post hysterectomy weird emotions can show up out of the blue). LOL > > The truth is - no matter what my mom does to me or says to me, I still love her. If that isn't unconditional love, I don't know what is. I also love myself unconditionally so will go to any lengths I need to in order to protect myself from harmful people (and that usually involves me terminating relationships or withdrawing - I never go on the assault and typically will only fight back when people will not allow me to walk away and force me to stand and fight). > > I appreciate what you said very much. I guess i just needed a little revalidation. My guilt is insanity. This I know. Society sometimes picks up where nada left off unwittingly causing harm. I think that these " spiritual " people should lay off inappropriate judgment in a one size fits all fashion using the Bible or other scriptures to make people feel bad about themselves. I'm finding a lot of new agers to be really callus while parotting spiritual words they truly do not comprehend. I'm a bit of a new ager too but I steer clear of anything callus or harmful to the individual and strive to help people understand. I use love to support and help people heal NOT to distort and impose fear! UGH~! > > Thanks again Mia ((((hugs))))) I feel so much better. > > Jaie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 That is the exact analogy I've used over and over again. Rapists are mentally ill too. Non-mentally ill people don't comit rape, right? So, the victims of rape are in no way expected to love, forgive and cuddle up to the man who violated the...they get support...but the victims of child abuse are called heartless, hate mongering, unloving, societal misfits? We are victims of what should be a crime! I'm so sick of NPD or BPD sponsored websites that condemn us and require that we lay down and be doormats or we're the abusive ones. Such a typical BPD/NPD twist! It does make me incredulous. about.com's website really ticks me off. The admin there is a BPD and writes on her facebooks site about how sad it is that we're (the family members o BPD) filled with " vitriol " and hatred when we should be more loving and compassionate towards BPDs. How in the heck could the fox watch the chicken house? Decisions will always be made to protect the BPDs and could never find true validation and support for the victims they are/have been. I won't go near that site. Anyone who in any way discounts any victim, just doesn't get my support. But, then again, the New York Times owns this site - if they stir it up a bit, perhaps the more hits they get, even if just from angry betrayed people, the more they get from their sponsors. I've been to other about.com sites that are absolutely wonderful - it's just this one that bugs me because I think they are insensitive to the healing process required for non-BPD adult children of BPDs. Thanks Mia! Jaie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 It was an online friend. I have appropriately judged this person as unsafe for me so have cut contact. But it just upset me to be the victim (which I hate the idea of) and then have spirituality, (which i love because it has saved my life), be used as a tool to twist the knife further. Who knows why they did it and I don't really care any more. I felt the twist in my gut that is never wrong in judging people unsafe for me and so I won't have to deal with that one again. I'm fiercely protective when this issue comes up. I'm sick to death of anyone telling me not to be judgmental, when that very statement is being used in the moment out of sync with the biblical passage. The new agers drive insane with this " don't judge " business. Go sit next to a hungry tiger. Don't you dare be scared, don't judge. they then start to get the point. Some judgment is necessary for your survival. That is appropriate judgment. Thanks so much for your support! Jaie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Hi Jaie, here's a different spiritual pov to try on. By refusing to allow your nada to be in a position to harm you, you are showing love for her and yourself. Love for her by giving her consequences for her actions so that she can have a truer idea that how she is being toward you doesn't work - IF she were ready this would help her to change. Allowing her to harm you isn't love. Allowing yourself to be harmed isn't love. Giving in to her many demands of what she believes you should do isn't love either. What you described wasn't her wanting love from you but to own and control you. ating with (that* isn't loving her or letting her love you! I think you have to be careful of " spiritual people " and I say that as a person who would describe myself as one. It's very easy for some to use spirituality as an ego boost or a way to push their reality on to others. Also very tempting to embrace an ideal world view (for example based on good loving mothers) and ignore that there's an ugly reality that has to be accounted for as well. I'm absolutely in favor of every person seeking their own spiritual truth and sharing their knowledge. But let the red flag come up when someone else's truth is tearing you down. Good luck, > > No matter how far you get on your journey of recovery, there is always something to explore and learn. > > I'm a little angry today, seemingly, at the spiritual community I'm involved in. They're really good people but there are some phrases bantered about where I think they are missing the point...but then again, they're touching buttons of mine... > > Basically the phrases boil down to these: > > 1. If I had truly given nada my forgiveness, I would have her in my life and continue demonstrating my love for her physically, emotionally and financially in whatever way she needs. > > 2. If I really loved nada without condition, I would have her in my life, ignore her abuse, and continue to demonstrate my love for her physically, emotionally and financially in whatever way she needs. > > 3. If really had any compassion, I would be understanding that the insults and verbal/vulgar abuse she showers me with are only her wounds and I would not be witholding my love for her. > > 4. Your relationships with people, particularly your mother, shows the real person you are on the inside - so, then I am what she says - selfish, cold and uncaring. > > So, the root of my anger is obvious, there is still some guilt I carry at kicking her out of my life, moving and leaving her no forwarding address and changing my home and cell phone numbers so she cannot contact me. > > I don't think I'm delusional (I could be and I'll look at that) but I see myself as I kind, loving and very compassionate soul. I tend towards co-dependency so I'm very careful not to get involved in rescuing people but that pretty much sums me up. I live to help others while I live and learn here in life. I've been through hell and back and still I really care most about helping others to heal and transcend pain in their lives. > > I do care a bit about what people think - particularly in the spiritual realms. If I believe myself a spiritual individual, I am acting rather un-spiritually with nada in that I refuse to stand there and take her abuse, I can't function in my life as a single mother due to the PTSD responses I still have from her abusive, vulgar, truly disgusting soul assassination she attempts with me. But I have this feeling of failure sometimes when I have great relationships with everyone in the world except for abusive people. The guys I ran into with NPD - definitely no good relationships there and I don't care. Just glad they're gone. The Bi-polar ex and I have a great relationship - we get along better now not married than when we were married. I truly love him unconditionally - I just couldn't live with him and be his mate while he was using. he chose substance - I chose sanity. It didn't change my love for him. Its like that with nada to. I love her unconditionally but I cannot pretend to be a loving wonderful daughter to a woman who is out to destroy me if I won't let her take over and ruin my safe sanctuary of home, who's bills I refuse to pay because as a single mom I just have enough for us and who I won't drop everything including caring for my kids to lavish her with physical affection when I'm just not feeling it, who I won't max out the credit cards for to buy her dentures so she can look good (I didn't force her to eat oxycodone like candy rotting her teeth out of her head - cause her to stop with normal oral hygene), I won't call pawn shops all over this land and pay for pawn tickets with interest to retrieve her jewelry. These things would make her stop abusing me until the next thing comes up she can do splitting with. > > Really - Am I really wrong in God's eyes for seeking to protect myself? I used an analogy earlier - I love all of God's creatures - I really do and I love them without condition but I'm not going to take a nap next to a hungry tiger or snuggle up to a rattle snake. That would be deadly to me. I have absolutely judged my mother but in this way only - I believe her to be incredibly ill because no mother, for any reason would ever treat her kids the way she treated me, no mother would beg her kids to go deeply into debt - we're talking in the thousands and thousands to rescue her from her bad decisions, I believe she's wrong for seeking vengeance against her child, I believe she is sick, angry, abusive, delusional, unfit, unloving, hurtful and more. I judge her unsafe for me. I can come to the conclusion that I understand what she says isn't about me and I am really strong but I tried to employ this logic and rationalization when she was in my home and she destroyed it. My home has always been my sanctuary, the one place in the world that we were always safe but when she moved in and stayed for 30 days, I wasn't even safe enough to sleep. She'd wake me up at 11 or 12 at night on a work night (I have to get up at 4:00 a.m.) and pick a fight with me about some delusional thing. I'd go to get a cup of coffee in the morning and I was attacked for not beleiving in an hallucination that I could visibly tell was unreal. I couldn't use the bathroom without her knocking on the door. I couldn't open a cabinet without finding a hateful post-it note. I couldn't walk out to my car without finding a note book under my windsheild wiper filed with pages of hate, manipulation, insult and guilt. There was no place in my home I could be safe from her harm and abuse and yet I see all these spiritual people spouting these really beautiful, loving and spiritual things that make me feel so bad and so guilty that I chose peace and emotional safety in my home for me and I my kids, that I chose to love myself instead of putting up with her illness and abuse. > > If I'm wrong here, I'm chosing not to be right forever because I'll never go back and maybe she's right and I will burn in hell miserably for chosing to kick her out and refuse to talk to her or listen to minutes and minutes filled with hatred and filthy language and vulgar insults and threats to " get me. " I just cannot believe that God would send me to hell for protecting myself and my kids from my hateful abusive mother. I believe that I am not a bad person just because I cannot have a relationship with my mother. My mother is obviously mentally ill but I am judged by her insanity. Try going out on date with someone - they always want to know how your relationship is with your mother. I always just say i love her and change the subject for another time after they get to know me a little better so I'm not so unfairly judged. > > How is it that victims of rape or other crimes are supported by the world with empathy and protection and all we get is downward glances and judgment unfairly? We were victims. I won't be a victim any more. I refuse it and with everything in me I will heal this lie she implanted in me of guilt for doing what I had to do to emotionally survive. > > Okay - my vent is over. Thanks for listening. I guess I just had to let it out. > > Jaie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Hi Jaie, here's a different spiritual pov to try on. By refusing to allow your nada to be in a position to harm you, you are showing love for her and yourself. Love for her by giving her consequences for her actions so that she can have a truer idea that how she is being toward you doesn't work - IF she were ready this would help her to change. Allowing her to harm you isn't love. Allowing yourself to be harmed isn't love. Giving in to her many demands of what she believes you should do isn't love either. What you described wasn't her wanting love from you but to own and control you. ating with (that* isn't loving her or letting her love you! I think you have to be careful of " spiritual people " and I say that as a person who would describe myself as one. It's very easy for some to use spirituality as an ego boost or a way to push their reality on to others. Also very tempting to embrace an ideal world view (for example based on good loving mothers) and ignore that there's an ugly reality that has to be accounted for as well. I'm absolutely in favor of every person seeking their own spiritual truth and sharing their knowledge. But let the red flag come up when someone else's truth is tearing you down. Good luck, > > No matter how far you get on your journey of recovery, there is always something to explore and learn. > > I'm a little angry today, seemingly, at the spiritual community I'm involved in. They're really good people but there are some phrases bantered about where I think they are missing the point...but then again, they're touching buttons of mine... > > Basically the phrases boil down to these: > > 1. If I had truly given nada my forgiveness, I would have her in my life and continue demonstrating my love for her physically, emotionally and financially in whatever way she needs. > > 2. If I really loved nada without condition, I would have her in my life, ignore her abuse, and continue to demonstrate my love for her physically, emotionally and financially in whatever way she needs. > > 3. If really had any compassion, I would be understanding that the insults and verbal/vulgar abuse she showers me with are only her wounds and I would not be witholding my love for her. > > 4. Your relationships with people, particularly your mother, shows the real person you are on the inside - so, then I am what she says - selfish, cold and uncaring. > > So, the root of my anger is obvious, there is still some guilt I carry at kicking her out of my life, moving and leaving her no forwarding address and changing my home and cell phone numbers so she cannot contact me. > > I don't think I'm delusional (I could be and I'll look at that) but I see myself as I kind, loving and very compassionate soul. I tend towards co-dependency so I'm very careful not to get involved in rescuing people but that pretty much sums me up. I live to help others while I live and learn here in life. I've been through hell and back and still I really care most about helping others to heal and transcend pain in their lives. > > I do care a bit about what people think - particularly in the spiritual realms. If I believe myself a spiritual individual, I am acting rather un-spiritually with nada in that I refuse to stand there and take her abuse, I can't function in my life as a single mother due to the PTSD responses I still have from her abusive, vulgar, truly disgusting soul assassination she attempts with me. But I have this feeling of failure sometimes when I have great relationships with everyone in the world except for abusive people. The guys I ran into with NPD - definitely no good relationships there and I don't care. Just glad they're gone. The Bi-polar ex and I have a great relationship - we get along better now not married than when we were married. I truly love him unconditionally - I just couldn't live with him and be his mate while he was using. he chose substance - I chose sanity. It didn't change my love for him. Its like that with nada to. I love her unconditionally but I cannot pretend to be a loving wonderful daughter to a woman who is out to destroy me if I won't let her take over and ruin my safe sanctuary of home, who's bills I refuse to pay because as a single mom I just have enough for us and who I won't drop everything including caring for my kids to lavish her with physical affection when I'm just not feeling it, who I won't max out the credit cards for to buy her dentures so she can look good (I didn't force her to eat oxycodone like candy rotting her teeth out of her head - cause her to stop with normal oral hygene), I won't call pawn shops all over this land and pay for pawn tickets with interest to retrieve her jewelry. These things would make her stop abusing me until the next thing comes up she can do splitting with. > > Really - Am I really wrong in God's eyes for seeking to protect myself? I used an analogy earlier - I love all of God's creatures - I really do and I love them without condition but I'm not going to take a nap next to a hungry tiger or snuggle up to a rattle snake. That would be deadly to me. I have absolutely judged my mother but in this way only - I believe her to be incredibly ill because no mother, for any reason would ever treat her kids the way she treated me, no mother would beg her kids to go deeply into debt - we're talking in the thousands and thousands to rescue her from her bad decisions, I believe she's wrong for seeking vengeance against her child, I believe she is sick, angry, abusive, delusional, unfit, unloving, hurtful and more. I judge her unsafe for me. I can come to the conclusion that I understand what she says isn't about me and I am really strong but I tried to employ this logic and rationalization when she was in my home and she destroyed it. My home has always been my sanctuary, the one place in the world that we were always safe but when she moved in and stayed for 30 days, I wasn't even safe enough to sleep. She'd wake me up at 11 or 12 at night on a work night (I have to get up at 4:00 a.m.) and pick a fight with me about some delusional thing. I'd go to get a cup of coffee in the morning and I was attacked for not beleiving in an hallucination that I could visibly tell was unreal. I couldn't use the bathroom without her knocking on the door. I couldn't open a cabinet without finding a hateful post-it note. I couldn't walk out to my car without finding a note book under my windsheild wiper filed with pages of hate, manipulation, insult and guilt. There was no place in my home I could be safe from her harm and abuse and yet I see all these spiritual people spouting these really beautiful, loving and spiritual things that make me feel so bad and so guilty that I chose peace and emotional safety in my home for me and I my kids, that I chose to love myself instead of putting up with her illness and abuse. > > If I'm wrong here, I'm chosing not to be right forever because I'll never go back and maybe she's right and I will burn in hell miserably for chosing to kick her out and refuse to talk to her or listen to minutes and minutes filled with hatred and filthy language and vulgar insults and threats to " get me. " I just cannot believe that God would send me to hell for protecting myself and my kids from my hateful abusive mother. I believe that I am not a bad person just because I cannot have a relationship with my mother. My mother is obviously mentally ill but I am judged by her insanity. Try going out on date with someone - they always want to know how your relationship is with your mother. I always just say i love her and change the subject for another time after they get to know me a little better so I'm not so unfairly judged. > > How is it that victims of rape or other crimes are supported by the world with empathy and protection and all we get is downward glances and judgment unfairly? We were victims. I won't be a victim any more. I refuse it and with everything in me I will heal this lie she implanted in me of guilt for doing what I had to do to emotionally survive. > > Okay - my vent is over. Thanks for listening. I guess I just had to let it out. > > Jaie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Hi Jaie, here's a different spiritual pov to try on. By refusing to allow your nada to be in a position to harm you, you are showing love for her and yourself. Love for her by giving her consequences for her actions so that she can have a truer idea that how she is being toward you doesn't work - IF she were ready this would help her to change. Allowing her to harm you isn't love. Allowing yourself to be harmed isn't love. Giving in to her many demands of what she believes you should do isn't love either. What you described wasn't her wanting love from you but to own and control you. ating with (that* isn't loving her or letting her love you! I think you have to be careful of " spiritual people " and I say that as a person who would describe myself as one. It's very easy for some to use spirituality as an ego boost or a way to push their reality on to others. Also very tempting to embrace an ideal world view (for example based on good loving mothers) and ignore that there's an ugly reality that has to be accounted for as well. I'm absolutely in favor of every person seeking their own spiritual truth and sharing their knowledge. But let the red flag come up when someone else's truth is tearing you down. Good luck, > > No matter how far you get on your journey of recovery, there is always something to explore and learn. > > I'm a little angry today, seemingly, at the spiritual community I'm involved in. They're really good people but there are some phrases bantered about where I think they are missing the point...but then again, they're touching buttons of mine... > > Basically the phrases boil down to these: > > 1. If I had truly given nada my forgiveness, I would have her in my life and continue demonstrating my love for her physically, emotionally and financially in whatever way she needs. > > 2. If I really loved nada without condition, I would have her in my life, ignore her abuse, and continue to demonstrate my love for her physically, emotionally and financially in whatever way she needs. > > 3. If really had any compassion, I would be understanding that the insults and verbal/vulgar abuse she showers me with are only her wounds and I would not be witholding my love for her. > > 4. Your relationships with people, particularly your mother, shows the real person you are on the inside - so, then I am what she says - selfish, cold and uncaring. > > So, the root of my anger is obvious, there is still some guilt I carry at kicking her out of my life, moving and leaving her no forwarding address and changing my home and cell phone numbers so she cannot contact me. > > I don't think I'm delusional (I could be and I'll look at that) but I see myself as I kind, loving and very compassionate soul. I tend towards co-dependency so I'm very careful not to get involved in rescuing people but that pretty much sums me up. I live to help others while I live and learn here in life. I've been through hell and back and still I really care most about helping others to heal and transcend pain in their lives. > > I do care a bit about what people think - particularly in the spiritual realms. If I believe myself a spiritual individual, I am acting rather un-spiritually with nada in that I refuse to stand there and take her abuse, I can't function in my life as a single mother due to the PTSD responses I still have from her abusive, vulgar, truly disgusting soul assassination she attempts with me. But I have this feeling of failure sometimes when I have great relationships with everyone in the world except for abusive people. The guys I ran into with NPD - definitely no good relationships there and I don't care. Just glad they're gone. The Bi-polar ex and I have a great relationship - we get along better now not married than when we were married. I truly love him unconditionally - I just couldn't live with him and be his mate while he was using. he chose substance - I chose sanity. It didn't change my love for him. Its like that with nada to. I love her unconditionally but I cannot pretend to be a loving wonderful daughter to a woman who is out to destroy me if I won't let her take over and ruin my safe sanctuary of home, who's bills I refuse to pay because as a single mom I just have enough for us and who I won't drop everything including caring for my kids to lavish her with physical affection when I'm just not feeling it, who I won't max out the credit cards for to buy her dentures so she can look good (I didn't force her to eat oxycodone like candy rotting her teeth out of her head - cause her to stop with normal oral hygene), I won't call pawn shops all over this land and pay for pawn tickets with interest to retrieve her jewelry. These things would make her stop abusing me until the next thing comes up she can do splitting with. > > Really - Am I really wrong in God's eyes for seeking to protect myself? I used an analogy earlier - I love all of God's creatures - I really do and I love them without condition but I'm not going to take a nap next to a hungry tiger or snuggle up to a rattle snake. That would be deadly to me. I have absolutely judged my mother but in this way only - I believe her to be incredibly ill because no mother, for any reason would ever treat her kids the way she treated me, no mother would beg her kids to go deeply into debt - we're talking in the thousands and thousands to rescue her from her bad decisions, I believe she's wrong for seeking vengeance against her child, I believe she is sick, angry, abusive, delusional, unfit, unloving, hurtful and more. I judge her unsafe for me. I can come to the conclusion that I understand what she says isn't about me and I am really strong but I tried to employ this logic and rationalization when she was in my home and she destroyed it. My home has always been my sanctuary, the one place in the world that we were always safe but when she moved in and stayed for 30 days, I wasn't even safe enough to sleep. She'd wake me up at 11 or 12 at night on a work night (I have to get up at 4:00 a.m.) and pick a fight with me about some delusional thing. I'd go to get a cup of coffee in the morning and I was attacked for not beleiving in an hallucination that I could visibly tell was unreal. I couldn't use the bathroom without her knocking on the door. I couldn't open a cabinet without finding a hateful post-it note. I couldn't walk out to my car without finding a note book under my windsheild wiper filed with pages of hate, manipulation, insult and guilt. There was no place in my home I could be safe from her harm and abuse and yet I see all these spiritual people spouting these really beautiful, loving and spiritual things that make me feel so bad and so guilty that I chose peace and emotional safety in my home for me and I my kids, that I chose to love myself instead of putting up with her illness and abuse. > > If I'm wrong here, I'm chosing not to be right forever because I'll never go back and maybe she's right and I will burn in hell miserably for chosing to kick her out and refuse to talk to her or listen to minutes and minutes filled with hatred and filthy language and vulgar insults and threats to " get me. " I just cannot believe that God would send me to hell for protecting myself and my kids from my hateful abusive mother. I believe that I am not a bad person just because I cannot have a relationship with my mother. My mother is obviously mentally ill but I am judged by her insanity. Try going out on date with someone - they always want to know how your relationship is with your mother. I always just say i love her and change the subject for another time after they get to know me a little better so I'm not so unfairly judged. > > How is it that victims of rape or other crimes are supported by the world with empathy and protection and all we get is downward glances and judgment unfairly? We were victims. I won't be a victim any more. I refuse it and with everything in me I will heal this lie she implanted in me of guilt for doing what I had to do to emotionally survive. > > Okay - my vent is over. Thanks for listening. I guess I just had to let it out. > > Jaie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 I agree with you Mia. Substitute " incest by father " for " emotional abuse by mother " and would Jaie's spiritual community argue with Jaie about it the same way? Probably not. -Annie > > An after thought... if we're just supposed to stand by & let our nadas & > fadas abuse us and just forgive & keep putting ourselves in the line of > abuse... would they expect a rape victim to continuously allow herself to be > raped over & over? Would they tell her to just go with it? I would think & > hope NOT. > > I think it's a very skewed view of abuse and abuse survivors and really > makes me want to advocate for us even more. > > I'll shut up now. > > Mia > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 I agree with you Mia. Substitute " incest by father " for " emotional abuse by mother " and would Jaie's spiritual community argue with Jaie about it the same way? Probably not. -Annie > > An after thought... if we're just supposed to stand by & let our nadas & > fadas abuse us and just forgive & keep putting ourselves in the line of > abuse... would they expect a rape victim to continuously allow herself to be > raped over & over? Would they tell her to just go with it? I would think & > hope NOT. > > I think it's a very skewed view of abuse and abuse survivors and really > makes me want to advocate for us even more. > > I'll shut up now. > > Mia > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 I agree with you Mia. Substitute " incest by father " for " emotional abuse by mother " and would Jaie's spiritual community argue with Jaie about it the same way? Probably not. -Annie > > An after thought... if we're just supposed to stand by & let our nadas & > fadas abuse us and just forgive & keep putting ourselves in the line of > abuse... would they expect a rape victim to continuously allow herself to be > raped over & over? Would they tell her to just go with it? I would think & > hope NOT. > > I think it's a very skewed view of abuse and abuse survivors and really > makes me want to advocate for us even more. > > I'll shut up now. > > Mia > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Jaie, The problem with these people is probably that they've bought into the idea that there is something magical about mothers that makes them wonderful people who could't possibly do anything to harm their children. They probably can't wrap their minds around the way nadas don't fit that dream-ideal of motherhood. Sometimes people let their own experiences color their view of the world to the point where they can't believe that other people haven't had similar experiences. Giving birth just doesn't magically make people wonderful mothers. Being a mother doesn't mean you should be allowed to abuse your children at any age. I don't believe in any God that expects people to allow themselves to be abused, so no I don't think you're wrong in God's eyes to protect yourself. If the people in your spiritual community really think that that's what God wants, and by saying these things to you, that's pretty much what they're saying they believe, then perhaps you should find a spiritual community that is more suited to your needs. Even within the same denomination, the members of different churches can vary in how they behave. For what it is worth, I don't think the world supports rape victims with empathy and protection. Rape victims are often treated pretty badly too, even in supposedly enlightened countries. It is still all too common that they're told, directly or indirectly, that they were " asking for it " or that it was their own fault or that they shouldn't have " led him on " . Some cultures go so far as to sentence women who've been raped to horrible punishments. I think that victims of abuse of various sorts are treated badly by otherwise good people because the fact that they've been abused disturbs the other people's view of the world and they'd rather pretend the victims are at fault so they can continue believing what they want to believe. At 03:17 PM 01/26/2011 Jaie wrote: >No matter how far you get on your journey of recovery, there is >always something to explore and learn. > >I'm a little angry today, seemingly, at the spiritual community >I'm involved in. They're really good people but there are some >phrases bantered about where I think they are missing the >point...but then again, they're touching buttons of mine... > >Basically the phrases boil down to these: > >1. If I had truly given nada my forgiveness, I would have her >in my life and continue demonstrating my love for her >physically, emotionally and financially in whatever way she >needs. > >2. If I really loved nada without condition, I would have her >in my life, ignore her abuse, and continue to demonstrate my >love for her physically, emotionally and financially in >whatever way she needs. >3. If really had any compassion, I would be understanding that >the insults and verbal/vulgar abuse she showers me with are >only her wounds and I would not be witholding my love for her. > >4. Your relationships with people, particularly your mother, >shows the real person you are on the inside - so, then I am >what she says - selfish, cold and uncaring. > >So, the root of my anger is obvious, there is still some guilt >I carry at kicking her out of my life, moving and leaving her >no forwarding address and changing my home and cell phone >numbers so she cannot contact me. > >I don't think I'm delusional (I could be and I'll look at that) >but I see myself as I kind, loving and very compassionate >soul. I tend towards co-dependency so I'm very careful not to >get involved in rescuing people but that pretty much sums me >up. I live to help others while I live and learn here in >life. I've been through hell and back and still I really care >most about helping others to heal and transcend pain in their >lives. > >I do care a bit about what people think - particularly in the >spiritual realms. If I believe myself a spiritual individual, >I am acting rather un-spiritually with nada in that I refuse to >stand there and take her abuse, I can't function in my life as >a single mother due to the PTSD responses I still have from her >abusive, vulgar, truly disgusting soul assassination she >attempts with me. But I have this feeling of failure sometimes >when I have great relationships with everyone in the world >except for abusive people. The guys I ran into with NPD - >definitely no good relationships there and I don't care. Just >glad they're gone. The Bi-polar ex and I have a great >relationship - we get along better now not married than when we >were married. I truly love him unconditionally - I just >couldn't live with him and be his mate while he was using. he >chose substance - I chose sanity. It didn't change my love for >him. Its like that with nada to. I love her unconditionally >but I cannot pretend to be a loving wonderful daughter to a >woman who is out to destroy me if I won't let her take over and >ruin my safe sanctuary of home, who's bills I refuse to pay >because as a single mom I just have enough for us and who I >won't drop everything including caring for my kids to lavish >her with physical affection when I'm just not feeling it, who I >won't max out the credit cards for to buy her dentures so she >can look good (I didn't force her to eat oxycodone like candy >rotting her teeth out of her head - cause her to stop with >normal oral hygene), I won't call pawn shops all over this land >and pay for pawn tickets with interest to retrieve her >jewelry. These things would make her stop abusing me until >the next thing comes up she can do splitting with. > >Really - Am I really wrong in God's eyes for seeking to protect >myself? I used an analogy earlier - I love all of God's >creatures - I really do and I love them without condition but >I'm not going to take a nap next to a hungry tiger or snuggle >up to a rattle snake. That would be deadly to me. I have >absolutely judged my mother but in this way only - I believe >her to be incredibly ill because no mother, for any reason >would ever treat her kids the way she treated me, no mother >would beg her kids to go deeply into debt - we're talking in >the thousands and thousands to rescue her from her bad >decisions, I believe she's wrong for seeking vengeance against >her child, I believe she is sick, angry, abusive, delusional, >unfit, unloving, hurtful and more. I judge her unsafe for >me. I can come to the conclusion that I understand what she >says isn't about me and I am really strong but I tried to >employ this logic and rationalization when she was in my home >and she destroyed it. My home has always been my sanctuary, >the one place in the world that we were always safe but when >she moved in and stayed for 30 days, I wasn't even safe enough >to sleep. She'd wake me up at 11 or 12 at night on a work >night (I have to get up at 4:00 a.m.) and pick a fight with me >about some delusional thing. I'd go to get a cup of coffee in >the morning and I was attacked for not beleiving in an >hallucination that I could visibly tell was unreal. I couldn't >use the bathroom without her knocking on the door. I couldn't >open a cabinet without finding a hateful post-it note. I >couldn't walk out to my car without finding a note book under >my windsheild wiper filed with pages of hate, manipulation, >insult and guilt. There was no place in my home I could be >safe from her harm and abuse and yet I see all these spiritual >people spouting these really beautiful, loving and spiritual >things that make me feel so bad and so guilty that I chose >peace and emotional safety in my home for me and I my kids, >that I chose to love myself instead of putting up with her >illness and abuse. > >If I'm wrong here, I'm chosing not to be right forever because >I'll never go back and maybe she's right and I will burn in >hell miserably for chosing to kick her out and refuse to talk >to her or listen to minutes and minutes filled with hatred and >filthy language and vulgar insults and threats to " get me. " I >just cannot believe that God would send me to hell for >protecting myself and my kids from my hateful abusive >mother. I believe that I am not a bad person just because I >cannot have a relationship with my mother. My mother is >obviously mentally ill but I am judged by her insanity. Try >going out on date with someone - they always want to know how >your relationship is with your mother. I always just say i >love her and change the subject for another time after they get >to know me a little better so I'm not so unfairly judged. > >How is it that victims of rape or other crimes are supported by >the world with empathy and protection and all we get is >downward glances and judgment unfairly? We were victims. I >won't be a victim any more. I refuse it and with everything in >me I will heal this lie she implanted in me of guilt for doing >what I had to do to emotionally survive. > >Okay - my vent is over. Thanks for listening. I guess I just >had to let it out. > >Jaie -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Jaie, The problem with these people is probably that they've bought into the idea that there is something magical about mothers that makes them wonderful people who could't possibly do anything to harm their children. They probably can't wrap their minds around the way nadas don't fit that dream-ideal of motherhood. Sometimes people let their own experiences color their view of the world to the point where they can't believe that other people haven't had similar experiences. Giving birth just doesn't magically make people wonderful mothers. Being a mother doesn't mean you should be allowed to abuse your children at any age. I don't believe in any God that expects people to allow themselves to be abused, so no I don't think you're wrong in God's eyes to protect yourself. If the people in your spiritual community really think that that's what God wants, and by saying these things to you, that's pretty much what they're saying they believe, then perhaps you should find a spiritual community that is more suited to your needs. Even within the same denomination, the members of different churches can vary in how they behave. For what it is worth, I don't think the world supports rape victims with empathy and protection. Rape victims are often treated pretty badly too, even in supposedly enlightened countries. It is still all too common that they're told, directly or indirectly, that they were " asking for it " or that it was their own fault or that they shouldn't have " led him on " . Some cultures go so far as to sentence women who've been raped to horrible punishments. I think that victims of abuse of various sorts are treated badly by otherwise good people because the fact that they've been abused disturbs the other people's view of the world and they'd rather pretend the victims are at fault so they can continue believing what they want to believe. At 03:17 PM 01/26/2011 Jaie wrote: >No matter how far you get on your journey of recovery, there is >always something to explore and learn. > >I'm a little angry today, seemingly, at the spiritual community >I'm involved in. They're really good people but there are some >phrases bantered about where I think they are missing the >point...but then again, they're touching buttons of mine... > >Basically the phrases boil down to these: > >1. If I had truly given nada my forgiveness, I would have her >in my life and continue demonstrating my love for her >physically, emotionally and financially in whatever way she >needs. > >2. If I really loved nada without condition, I would have her >in my life, ignore her abuse, and continue to demonstrate my >love for her physically, emotionally and financially in >whatever way she needs. >3. If really had any compassion, I would be understanding that >the insults and verbal/vulgar abuse she showers me with are >only her wounds and I would not be witholding my love for her. > >4. Your relationships with people, particularly your mother, >shows the real person you are on the inside - so, then I am >what she says - selfish, cold and uncaring. > >So, the root of my anger is obvious, there is still some guilt >I carry at kicking her out of my life, moving and leaving her >no forwarding address and changing my home and cell phone >numbers so she cannot contact me. > >I don't think I'm delusional (I could be and I'll look at that) >but I see myself as I kind, loving and very compassionate >soul. I tend towards co-dependency so I'm very careful not to >get involved in rescuing people but that pretty much sums me >up. I live to help others while I live and learn here in >life. I've been through hell and back and still I really care >most about helping others to heal and transcend pain in their >lives. > >I do care a bit about what people think - particularly in the >spiritual realms. If I believe myself a spiritual individual, >I am acting rather un-spiritually with nada in that I refuse to >stand there and take her abuse, I can't function in my life as >a single mother due to the PTSD responses I still have from her >abusive, vulgar, truly disgusting soul assassination she >attempts with me. But I have this feeling of failure sometimes >when I have great relationships with everyone in the world >except for abusive people. The guys I ran into with NPD - >definitely no good relationships there and I don't care. Just >glad they're gone. The Bi-polar ex and I have a great >relationship - we get along better now not married than when we >were married. I truly love him unconditionally - I just >couldn't live with him and be his mate while he was using. he >chose substance - I chose sanity. It didn't change my love for >him. Its like that with nada to. I love her unconditionally >but I cannot pretend to be a loving wonderful daughter to a >woman who is out to destroy me if I won't let her take over and >ruin my safe sanctuary of home, who's bills I refuse to pay >because as a single mom I just have enough for us and who I >won't drop everything including caring for my kids to lavish >her with physical affection when I'm just not feeling it, who I >won't max out the credit cards for to buy her dentures so she >can look good (I didn't force her to eat oxycodone like candy >rotting her teeth out of her head - cause her to stop with >normal oral hygene), I won't call pawn shops all over this land >and pay for pawn tickets with interest to retrieve her >jewelry. These things would make her stop abusing me until >the next thing comes up she can do splitting with. > >Really - Am I really wrong in God's eyes for seeking to protect >myself? I used an analogy earlier - I love all of God's >creatures - I really do and I love them without condition but >I'm not going to take a nap next to a hungry tiger or snuggle >up to a rattle snake. That would be deadly to me. I have >absolutely judged my mother but in this way only - I believe >her to be incredibly ill because no mother, for any reason >would ever treat her kids the way she treated me, no mother >would beg her kids to go deeply into debt - we're talking in >the thousands and thousands to rescue her from her bad >decisions, I believe she's wrong for seeking vengeance against >her child, I believe she is sick, angry, abusive, delusional, >unfit, unloving, hurtful and more. I judge her unsafe for >me. I can come to the conclusion that I understand what she >says isn't about me and I am really strong but I tried to >employ this logic and rationalization when she was in my home >and she destroyed it. My home has always been my sanctuary, >the one place in the world that we were always safe but when >she moved in and stayed for 30 days, I wasn't even safe enough >to sleep. She'd wake me up at 11 or 12 at night on a work >night (I have to get up at 4:00 a.m.) and pick a fight with me >about some delusional thing. I'd go to get a cup of coffee in >the morning and I was attacked for not beleiving in an >hallucination that I could visibly tell was unreal. I couldn't >use the bathroom without her knocking on the door. I couldn't >open a cabinet without finding a hateful post-it note. I >couldn't walk out to my car without finding a note book under >my windsheild wiper filed with pages of hate, manipulation, >insult and guilt. There was no place in my home I could be >safe from her harm and abuse and yet I see all these spiritual >people spouting these really beautiful, loving and spiritual >things that make me feel so bad and so guilty that I chose >peace and emotional safety in my home for me and I my kids, >that I chose to love myself instead of putting up with her >illness and abuse. > >If I'm wrong here, I'm chosing not to be right forever because >I'll never go back and maybe she's right and I will burn in >hell miserably for chosing to kick her out and refuse to talk >to her or listen to minutes and minutes filled with hatred and >filthy language and vulgar insults and threats to " get me. " I >just cannot believe that God would send me to hell for >protecting myself and my kids from my hateful abusive >mother. I believe that I am not a bad person just because I >cannot have a relationship with my mother. My mother is >obviously mentally ill but I am judged by her insanity. Try >going out on date with someone - they always want to know how >your relationship is with your mother. I always just say i >love her and change the subject for another time after they get >to know me a little better so I'm not so unfairly judged. > >How is it that victims of rape or other crimes are supported by >the world with empathy and protection and all we get is >downward glances and judgment unfairly? We were victims. I >won't be a victim any more. I refuse it and with everything in >me I will heal this lie she implanted in me of guilt for doing >what I had to do to emotionally survive. > >Okay - my vent is over. Thanks for listening. I guess I just >had to let it out. > >Jaie -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Jaie, The problem with these people is probably that they've bought into the idea that there is something magical about mothers that makes them wonderful people who could't possibly do anything to harm their children. They probably can't wrap their minds around the way nadas don't fit that dream-ideal of motherhood. Sometimes people let their own experiences color their view of the world to the point where they can't believe that other people haven't had similar experiences. Giving birth just doesn't magically make people wonderful mothers. Being a mother doesn't mean you should be allowed to abuse your children at any age. I don't believe in any God that expects people to allow themselves to be abused, so no I don't think you're wrong in God's eyes to protect yourself. If the people in your spiritual community really think that that's what God wants, and by saying these things to you, that's pretty much what they're saying they believe, then perhaps you should find a spiritual community that is more suited to your needs. Even within the same denomination, the members of different churches can vary in how they behave. For what it is worth, I don't think the world supports rape victims with empathy and protection. Rape victims are often treated pretty badly too, even in supposedly enlightened countries. It is still all too common that they're told, directly or indirectly, that they were " asking for it " or that it was their own fault or that they shouldn't have " led him on " . Some cultures go so far as to sentence women who've been raped to horrible punishments. I think that victims of abuse of various sorts are treated badly by otherwise good people because the fact that they've been abused disturbs the other people's view of the world and they'd rather pretend the victims are at fault so they can continue believing what they want to believe. At 03:17 PM 01/26/2011 Jaie wrote: >No matter how far you get on your journey of recovery, there is >always something to explore and learn. > >I'm a little angry today, seemingly, at the spiritual community >I'm involved in. They're really good people but there are some >phrases bantered about where I think they are missing the >point...but then again, they're touching buttons of mine... > >Basically the phrases boil down to these: > >1. If I had truly given nada my forgiveness, I would have her >in my life and continue demonstrating my love for her >physically, emotionally and financially in whatever way she >needs. > >2. If I really loved nada without condition, I would have her >in my life, ignore her abuse, and continue to demonstrate my >love for her physically, emotionally and financially in >whatever way she needs. >3. If really had any compassion, I would be understanding that >the insults and verbal/vulgar abuse she showers me with are >only her wounds and I would not be witholding my love for her. > >4. Your relationships with people, particularly your mother, >shows the real person you are on the inside - so, then I am >what she says - selfish, cold and uncaring. > >So, the root of my anger is obvious, there is still some guilt >I carry at kicking her out of my life, moving and leaving her >no forwarding address and changing my home and cell phone >numbers so she cannot contact me. > >I don't think I'm delusional (I could be and I'll look at that) >but I see myself as I kind, loving and very compassionate >soul. I tend towards co-dependency so I'm very careful not to >get involved in rescuing people but that pretty much sums me >up. I live to help others while I live and learn here in >life. I've been through hell and back and still I really care >most about helping others to heal and transcend pain in their >lives. > >I do care a bit about what people think - particularly in the >spiritual realms. If I believe myself a spiritual individual, >I am acting rather un-spiritually with nada in that I refuse to >stand there and take her abuse, I can't function in my life as >a single mother due to the PTSD responses I still have from her >abusive, vulgar, truly disgusting soul assassination she >attempts with me. But I have this feeling of failure sometimes >when I have great relationships with everyone in the world >except for abusive people. The guys I ran into with NPD - >definitely no good relationships there and I don't care. Just >glad they're gone. The Bi-polar ex and I have a great >relationship - we get along better now not married than when we >were married. I truly love him unconditionally - I just >couldn't live with him and be his mate while he was using. he >chose substance - I chose sanity. It didn't change my love for >him. Its like that with nada to. I love her unconditionally >but I cannot pretend to be a loving wonderful daughter to a >woman who is out to destroy me if I won't let her take over and >ruin my safe sanctuary of home, who's bills I refuse to pay >because as a single mom I just have enough for us and who I >won't drop everything including caring for my kids to lavish >her with physical affection when I'm just not feeling it, who I >won't max out the credit cards for to buy her dentures so she >can look good (I didn't force her to eat oxycodone like candy >rotting her teeth out of her head - cause her to stop with >normal oral hygene), I won't call pawn shops all over this land >and pay for pawn tickets with interest to retrieve her >jewelry. These things would make her stop abusing me until >the next thing comes up she can do splitting with. > >Really - Am I really wrong in God's eyes for seeking to protect >myself? I used an analogy earlier - I love all of God's >creatures - I really do and I love them without condition but >I'm not going to take a nap next to a hungry tiger or snuggle >up to a rattle snake. That would be deadly to me. I have >absolutely judged my mother but in this way only - I believe >her to be incredibly ill because no mother, for any reason >would ever treat her kids the way she treated me, no mother >would beg her kids to go deeply into debt - we're talking in >the thousands and thousands to rescue her from her bad >decisions, I believe she's wrong for seeking vengeance against >her child, I believe she is sick, angry, abusive, delusional, >unfit, unloving, hurtful and more. I judge her unsafe for >me. I can come to the conclusion that I understand what she >says isn't about me and I am really strong but I tried to >employ this logic and rationalization when she was in my home >and she destroyed it. My home has always been my sanctuary, >the one place in the world that we were always safe but when >she moved in and stayed for 30 days, I wasn't even safe enough >to sleep. She'd wake me up at 11 or 12 at night on a work >night (I have to get up at 4:00 a.m.) and pick a fight with me >about some delusional thing. I'd go to get a cup of coffee in >the morning and I was attacked for not beleiving in an >hallucination that I could visibly tell was unreal. I couldn't >use the bathroom without her knocking on the door. I couldn't >open a cabinet without finding a hateful post-it note. I >couldn't walk out to my car without finding a note book under >my windsheild wiper filed with pages of hate, manipulation, >insult and guilt. There was no place in my home I could be >safe from her harm and abuse and yet I see all these spiritual >people spouting these really beautiful, loving and spiritual >things that make me feel so bad and so guilty that I chose >peace and emotional safety in my home for me and I my kids, >that I chose to love myself instead of putting up with her >illness and abuse. > >If I'm wrong here, I'm chosing not to be right forever because >I'll never go back and maybe she's right and I will burn in >hell miserably for chosing to kick her out and refuse to talk >to her or listen to minutes and minutes filled with hatred and >filthy language and vulgar insults and threats to " get me. " I >just cannot believe that God would send me to hell for >protecting myself and my kids from my hateful abusive >mother. I believe that I am not a bad person just because I >cannot have a relationship with my mother. My mother is >obviously mentally ill but I am judged by her insanity. Try >going out on date with someone - they always want to know how >your relationship is with your mother. I always just say i >love her and change the subject for another time after they get >to know me a little better so I'm not so unfairly judged. > >How is it that victims of rape or other crimes are supported by >the world with empathy and protection and all we get is >downward glances and judgment unfairly? We were victims. I >won't be a victim any more. I refuse it and with everything in >me I will heal this lie she implanted in me of guilt for doing >what I had to do to emotionally survive. > >Okay - my vent is over. Thanks for listening. I guess I just >had to let it out. > >Jaie -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Thanks -- that is more in line with my typical sentiments. I guess being in recovery from surgery just has me weak for other reasons and I let it upset me when I really shouldn't. Whenever something is getting a reaction from you though, its never a bad idea to look at it. You guys have all made me feel sane again. That's just the thing, my nada doesn't want my love, she wants my life, my bank account, my good friendships and everything else and sense of entitlement with which she demands it is like that of a spoiled child. I don't give into spoiled children! LOL It's not healthy for them and it isn't healthy for me to enable bad behavior. Thank you so much!!!! Jaie! > > > > No matter how far you get on your journey of recovery, there is always something to explore and learn. > > > > I'm a little angry today, seemingly, at the spiritual community I'm involved in. They're really good people but there are some phrases bantered about where I think they are missing the point...but then again, they're touching buttons of mine... > > > > Basically the phrases boil down to these: > > > > 1. If I had truly given nada my forgiveness, I would have her in my life and continue demonstrating my love for her physically, emotionally and financially in whatever way she needs. > > > > 2. If I really loved nada without condition, I would have her in my life, ignore her abuse, and continue to demonstrate my love for her physically, emotionally and financially in whatever way she needs. > > > > 3. If really had any compassion, I would be understanding that the insults and verbal/vulgar abuse she showers me with are only her wounds and I would not be witholding my love for her. > > > > 4. Your relationships with people, particularly your mother, shows the real person you are on the inside - so, then I am what she says - selfish, cold and uncaring. > > > > So, the root of my anger is obvious, there is still some guilt I carry at kicking her out of my life, moving and leaving her no forwarding address and changing my home and cell phone numbers so she cannot contact me. > > > > I don't think I'm delusional (I could be and I'll look at that) but I see myself as I kind, loving and very compassionate soul. I tend towards co-dependency so I'm very careful not to get involved in rescuing people but that pretty much sums me up. I live to help others while I live and learn here in life. I've been through hell and back and still I really care most about helping others to heal and transcend pain in their lives. > > > > I do care a bit about what people think - particularly in the spiritual realms. If I believe myself a spiritual individual, I am acting rather un-spiritually with nada in that I refuse to stand there and take her abuse, I can't function in my life as a single mother due to the PTSD responses I still have from her abusive, vulgar, truly disgusting soul assassination she attempts with me. But I have this feeling of failure sometimes when I have great relationships with everyone in the world except for abusive people. The guys I ran into with NPD - definitely no good relationships there and I don't care. Just glad they're gone. The Bi-polar ex and I have a great relationship - we get along better now not married than when we were married. I truly love him unconditionally - I just couldn't live with him and be his mate while he was using. he chose substance - I chose sanity. It didn't change my love for him. Its like that with nada to. I love her unconditionally but I cannot pretend to be a loving wonderful daughter to a woman who is out to destroy me if I won't let her take over and ruin my safe sanctuary of home, who's bills I refuse to pay because as a single mom I just have enough for us and who I won't drop everything including caring for my kids to lavish her with physical affection when I'm just not feeling it, who I won't max out the credit cards for to buy her dentures so she can look good (I didn't force her to eat oxycodone like candy rotting her teeth out of her head - cause her to stop with normal oral hygene), I won't call pawn shops all over this land and pay for pawn tickets with interest to retrieve her jewelry. These things would make her stop abusing me until the next thing comes up she can do splitting with. > > > > Really - Am I really wrong in God's eyes for seeking to protect myself? I used an analogy earlier - I love all of God's creatures - I really do and I love them without condition but I'm not going to take a nap next to a hungry tiger or snuggle up to a rattle snake. That would be deadly to me. I have absolutely judged my mother but in this way only - I believe her to be incredibly ill because no mother, for any reason would ever treat her kids the way she treated me, no mother would beg her kids to go deeply into debt - we're talking in the thousands and thousands to rescue her from her bad decisions, I believe she's wrong for seeking vengeance against her child, I believe she is sick, angry, abusive, delusional, unfit, unloving, hurtful and more. I judge her unsafe for me. I can come to the conclusion that I understand what she says isn't about me and I am really strong but I tried to employ this logic and rationalization when she was in my home and she destroyed it. My home has always been my sanctuary, the one place in the world that we were always safe but when she moved in and stayed for 30 days, I wasn't even safe enough to sleep. She'd wake me up at 11 or 12 at night on a work night (I have to get up at 4:00 a.m.) and pick a fight with me about some delusional thing. I'd go to get a cup of coffee in the morning and I was attacked for not beleiving in an hallucination that I could visibly tell was unreal. I couldn't use the bathroom without her knocking on the door. I couldn't open a cabinet without finding a hateful post-it note. I couldn't walk out to my car without finding a note book under my windsheild wiper filed with pages of hate, manipulation, insult and guilt. There was no place in my home I could be safe from her harm and abuse and yet I see all these spiritual people spouting these really beautiful, loving and spiritual things that make me feel so bad and so guilty that I chose peace and emotional safety in my home for me and I my kids, that I chose to love myself instead of putting up with her illness and abuse. > > > > If I'm wrong here, I'm chosing not to be right forever because I'll never go back and maybe she's right and I will burn in hell miserably for chosing to kick her out and refuse to talk to her or listen to minutes and minutes filled with hatred and filthy language and vulgar insults and threats to " get me. " I just cannot believe that God would send me to hell for protecting myself and my kids from my hateful abusive mother. I believe that I am not a bad person just because I cannot have a relationship with my mother. My mother is obviously mentally ill but I am judged by her insanity. Try going out on date with someone - they always want to know how your relationship is with your mother. I always just say i love her and change the subject for another time after they get to know me a little better so I'm not so unfairly judged. > > > > How is it that victims of rape or other crimes are supported by the world with empathy and protection and all we get is downward glances and judgment unfairly? We were victims. I won't be a victim any more. I refuse it and with everything in me I will heal this lie she implanted in me of guilt for doing what I had to do to emotionally survive. > > > > Okay - my vent is over. Thanks for listening. I guess I just had to let it out. > > > > Jaie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.