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Re: Restraint & Seclusion Bill - NO VETO PLEASE

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Before you start contacting the Governor about killing this bill through a veto, please consider the following:

The bill is not a single subject bill. If the Governor vetos the bill, the whole bill dies including provisions to run more stringent background checks on people who work in group homes and courses to prepare teachers to identify students with disabilities earlier. This may not be your issues but they are issues of our community.

If you are only interested in the R & S part of the bill, yes it was watered down from the original stand alone version (single subject bill) but contrary to what you think, there was insufficient support of the single subject bill for it to even make it through committee hearings. That is why, to save the Bill, it had to be merged into another bill ......... more subjects, more support ......If it had been kept as a stand alone bill, you would have zero now. Is that what you want? Really?. zero?

Tell that the father whose daughter was locked repeatedly in a utility closet with no light on. MINE WAS!

Tell that to someone whose child was restrained in a manner that their breathing was restricted. COULD BE YOURS NEXT.

If even one child is saved by these two measures alone....than that is huge. Be as indignant as you like, but do not walk away from even one single step towards protection and safety. This is not rational.

There were no laws on the books at all regarding restraint and seclusion. Do you have any idea how the political process works? It is extremely difficult to create new law from scratch. The status quo always has more constitutents than change. That is why New Laws are almost always piggybacked onto (or merged into) other bills that are amending existing laws. Garnering votes through the committee process is difficult. Did you give testimoney at any of the committee hearings? I did. It is easy to criticize and complain if you don't do the work. Next year, I suggest you get on board early....not late........and certainly not after the final votes are in. The people who got the new law on the books are heroic. Did they want more, alot more, yes. But would they want the Bill killed? NO! There is now a place to pick it up again and go forward. If

you wait to get it the way you want it you will get nothing at all.

If the Governor signs this Bill into law, then next legislative session you can work to get a stand alone Bill to amend the law. But you may have to merge with other single subject bills to braoden the base and get it through. But you will need to get involved from the start.......not at the end....from day one........ to lobby for the amendments and you still will not get them all through. This means heavy support .........writing repeatedly to committee members, making phone calls........writing some more to get the Bill moved through the councils and committees. Every day from the first reading of the Bill through final passage. That is what it takes, like it or not.

And one final comment: The legislature only meets for 80 days a year. That's it. You kill this Bill ---- it is not as if it goes anywhere to improve..........it dies. And then next year, if you manage to get the bill killed, who do you think will sponsor it next year? You need senate and house sponsors. And committee chairs who will schedule the bill to be heard and members who will take the time to shepherd it through and get the votes. Legislators will not be lining up to sponsor bills and do the work just to wind up with a bill that is passed by both the house and senate and then killed by a veto at the urging of the very people who would benefit from the legislation ........have them turn on the Bill and on them. You do realize don't you, legislator are besieged by groups who want them to sponsor their bills. There are 100 times more bills left behind than sponsored.

Why would anyone pick this bill up again. There are so many issues ........ this was your shot.......and now you want to blow it.

So go ahead and urge a veto. Cut off your nose to spite your face. Unfortunately, you may very well wind up injuring the very childrern you so indignantely purport to protect. The next kid locked in a closet. The next child restrained to the point that breathing is restricted..........well, chalk one up for you..........

Yes, Lights ON and Breathing are important. You should be urging the Governor to sign this Bill. Our kids need their parents to move forward on their behalf, not squack about it's not enough.

Zero is not enough. This is something. A big something. You are the adults here. Act like it. Your kids are counting on you!

: Diane Rosenstein To: sList Sent: Thu, May 6, 2010 3:54:24 PMSubject: Re: Great News - HB1073 Restraint & Seclusion Bill Passed!

Ven,

With regard to the restraint & seclusion portion of the bill, (which is what is behind the major thrust of the bill, as I understand it), even if you think that the bill is "just ok", please indicate the part that you think is just ok.

I'm simply having a hard time comprehending that with all the apparent parental push for the bill, that the end result could only be language that indicates "lights on" and "let the student breathe freely" and NOTHING MORE. (That is, except for the documentation thereof, which STILL doesn't address that which is allowed or that which is prohibited and the circumstances for each, etc.)

I understand, as you indicated, that you didn't write the bill, and I'm not saying otherwise. However, you seemed at first to be greatly behind it, and still now "kind of" behind it; and so I'm just respectfully asking--given that you are a strong spokesperson for the autism community in Florida and given that you did want to herald the bill's passing on 's list--to please, if you are AT ALL behind the bill, to tell us WHY so that we too can see why its worthy of anything more than repulsion at its lack of anything prohibitive to R & S, and its contrary "granting" of LIGHT and BREATH to disabled students.

If you, and also ANYONE, can shed light on ANTHING POSITIVE about the bill in regard to R & S, please please share your insights.

Sincerely,

Diane Rosenstein

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Before you start contacting the Governor about killing this bill through a veto, please consider the following:

The bill is not a single subject bill. If the Governor vetos the bill, the whole bill dies including provisions to run more stringent background checks on people who work in group homes and courses to prepare teachers to identify students with disabilities earlier. This may not be your issues but they are issues of our community.

If you are only interested in the R & S part of the bill, yes it was watered down from the original stand alone version (single subject bill) but contrary to what you think, there was insufficient support of the single subject bill for it to even make it through committee hearings. That is why, to save the Bill, it had to be merged into another bill ......... more subjects, more support ......If it had been kept as a stand alone bill, you would have zero now. Is that what you want? Really?. zero?

Tell that the father whose daughter was locked repeatedly in a utility closet with no light on. MINE WAS!

Tell that to someone whose child was restrained in a manner that their breathing was restricted. COULD BE YOURS NEXT.

If even one child is saved by these two measures alone....than that is huge. Be as indignant as you like, but do not walk away from even one single step towards protection and safety. This is not rational.

There were no laws on the books at all regarding restraint and seclusion. Do you have any idea how the political process works? It is extremely difficult to create new law from scratch. The status quo always has more constitutents than change. That is why New Laws are almost always piggybacked onto (or merged into) other bills that are amending existing laws. Garnering votes through the committee process is difficult. Did you give testimoney at any of the committee hearings? I did. It is easy to criticize and complain if you don't do the work. Next year, I suggest you get on board early....not late........and certainly not after the final votes are in. The people who got the new law on the books are heroic. Did they want more, alot more, yes. But would they want the Bill killed? NO! There is now a place to pick it up again and go forward. If

you wait to get it the way you want it you will get nothing at all.

If the Governor signs this Bill into law, then next legislative session you can work to get a stand alone Bill to amend the law. But you may have to merge with other single subject bills to braoden the base and get it through. But you will need to get involved from the start.......not at the end....from day one........ to lobby for the amendments and you still will not get them all through. This means heavy support .........writing repeatedly to committee members, making phone calls........writing some more to get the Bill moved through the councils and committees. Every day from the first reading of the Bill through final passage. That is what it takes, like it or not.

And one final comment: The legislature only meets for 80 days a year. That's it. You kill this Bill ---- it is not as if it goes anywhere to improve..........it dies. And then next year, if you manage to get the bill killed, who do you think will sponsor it next year? You need senate and house sponsors. And committee chairs who will schedule the bill to be heard and members who will take the time to shepherd it through and get the votes. Legislators will not be lining up to sponsor bills and do the work just to wind up with a bill that is passed by both the house and senate and then killed by a veto at the urging of the very people who would benefit from the legislation ........have them turn on the Bill and on them. You do realize don't you, legislator are besieged by groups who want them to sponsor their bills. There are 100 times more bills left behind than sponsored.

Why would anyone pick this bill up again. There are so many issues ........ this was your shot.......and now you want to blow it.

So go ahead and urge a veto. Cut off your nose to spite your face. Unfortunately, you may very well wind up injuring the very childrern you so indignantely purport to protect. The next kid locked in a closet. The next child restrained to the point that breathing is restricted..........well, chalk one up for you..........

Yes, Lights ON and Breathing are important. You should be urging the Governor to sign this Bill. Our kids need their parents to move forward on their behalf, not squack about it's not enough.

Zero is not enough. This is something. A big something. You are the adults here. Act like it. Your kids are counting on you!

: Diane Rosenstein To: sList Sent: Thu, May 6, 2010 3:54:24 PMSubject: Re: Great News - HB1073 Restraint & Seclusion Bill Passed!

Ven,

With regard to the restraint & seclusion portion of the bill, (which is what is behind the major thrust of the bill, as I understand it), even if you think that the bill is "just ok", please indicate the part that you think is just ok.

I'm simply having a hard time comprehending that with all the apparent parental push for the bill, that the end result could only be language that indicates "lights on" and "let the student breathe freely" and NOTHING MORE. (That is, except for the documentation thereof, which STILL doesn't address that which is allowed or that which is prohibited and the circumstances for each, etc.)

I understand, as you indicated, that you didn't write the bill, and I'm not saying otherwise. However, you seemed at first to be greatly behind it, and still now "kind of" behind it; and so I'm just respectfully asking--given that you are a strong spokesperson for the autism community in Florida and given that you did want to herald the bill's passing on 's list--to please, if you are AT ALL behind the bill, to tell us WHY so that we too can see why its worthy of anything more than repulsion at its lack of anything prohibitive to R & S, and its contrary "granting" of LIGHT and BREATH to disabled students.

If you, and also ANYONE, can shed light on ANTHING POSITIVE about the bill in regard to R & S, please please share your insights.

Sincerely,

Diane Rosenstein

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Before you start contacting the Governor about killing this bill through a veto, please consider the following:

The bill is not a single subject bill. If the Governor vetos the bill, the whole bill dies including provisions to run more stringent background checks on people who work in group homes and courses to prepare teachers to identify students with disabilities earlier. This may not be your issues but they are issues of our community.

If you are only interested in the R & S part of the bill, yes it was watered down from the original stand alone version (single subject bill) but contrary to what you think, there was insufficient support of the single subject bill for it to even make it through committee hearings. That is why, to save the Bill, it had to be merged into another bill ......... more subjects, more support ......If it had been kept as a stand alone bill, you would have zero now. Is that what you want? Really?. zero?

Tell that the father whose daughter was locked repeatedly in a utility closet with no light on. MINE WAS!

Tell that to someone whose child was restrained in a manner that their breathing was restricted. COULD BE YOURS NEXT.

If even one child is saved by these two measures alone....than that is huge. Be as indignant as you like, but do not walk away from even one single step towards protection and safety. This is not rational.

There were no laws on the books at all regarding restraint and seclusion. Do you have any idea how the political process works? It is extremely difficult to create new law from scratch. The status quo always has more constitutents than change. That is why New Laws are almost always piggybacked onto (or merged into) other bills that are amending existing laws. Garnering votes through the committee process is difficult. Did you give testimoney at any of the committee hearings? I did. It is easy to criticize and complain if you don't do the work. Next year, I suggest you get on board early....not late........and certainly not after the final votes are in. The people who got the new law on the books are heroic. Did they want more, alot more, yes. But would they want the Bill killed? NO! There is now a place to pick it up again and go forward. If

you wait to get it the way you want it you will get nothing at all.

If the Governor signs this Bill into law, then next legislative session you can work to get a stand alone Bill to amend the law. But you may have to merge with other single subject bills to braoden the base and get it through. But you will need to get involved from the start.......not at the end....from day one........ to lobby for the amendments and you still will not get them all through. This means heavy support .........writing repeatedly to committee members, making phone calls........writing some more to get the Bill moved through the councils and committees. Every day from the first reading of the Bill through final passage. That is what it takes, like it or not.

And one final comment: The legislature only meets for 80 days a year. That's it. You kill this Bill ---- it is not as if it goes anywhere to improve..........it dies. And then next year, if you manage to get the bill killed, who do you think will sponsor it next year? You need senate and house sponsors. And committee chairs who will schedule the bill to be heard and members who will take the time to shepherd it through and get the votes. Legislators will not be lining up to sponsor bills and do the work just to wind up with a bill that is passed by both the house and senate and then killed by a veto at the urging of the very people who would benefit from the legislation ........have them turn on the Bill and on them. You do realize don't you, legislator are besieged by groups who want them to sponsor their bills. There are 100 times more bills left behind than sponsored.

Why would anyone pick this bill up again. There are so many issues ........ this was your shot.......and now you want to blow it.

So go ahead and urge a veto. Cut off your nose to spite your face. Unfortunately, you may very well wind up injuring the very childrern you so indignantely purport to protect. The next kid locked in a closet. The next child restrained to the point that breathing is restricted..........well, chalk one up for you..........

Yes, Lights ON and Breathing are important. You should be urging the Governor to sign this Bill. Our kids need their parents to move forward on their behalf, not squack about it's not enough.

Zero is not enough. This is something. A big something. You are the adults here. Act like it. Your kids are counting on you!

: Diane Rosenstein To: sList Sent: Thu, May 6, 2010 3:54:24 PMSubject: Re: Great News - HB1073 Restraint & Seclusion Bill Passed!

Ven,

With regard to the restraint & seclusion portion of the bill, (which is what is behind the major thrust of the bill, as I understand it), even if you think that the bill is "just ok", please indicate the part that you think is just ok.

I'm simply having a hard time comprehending that with all the apparent parental push for the bill, that the end result could only be language that indicates "lights on" and "let the student breathe freely" and NOTHING MORE. (That is, except for the documentation thereof, which STILL doesn't address that which is allowed or that which is prohibited and the circumstances for each, etc.)

I understand, as you indicated, that you didn't write the bill, and I'm not saying otherwise. However, you seemed at first to be greatly behind it, and still now "kind of" behind it; and so I'm just respectfully asking--given that you are a strong spokesperson for the autism community in Florida and given that you did want to herald the bill's passing on 's list--to please, if you are AT ALL behind the bill, to tell us WHY so that we too can see why its worthy of anything more than repulsion at its lack of anything prohibitive to R & S, and its contrary "granting" of LIGHT and BREATH to disabled students.

If you, and also ANYONE, can shed light on ANTHING POSITIVE about the bill in regard to R & S, please please share your insights.

Sincerely,

Diane Rosenstein

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Hello Binh,

Just to point out a few things.

" contrary to what you think, there was insufficient support of the single

subject bill for it to even make it through committee hearings. "

HB81 had 35 sponsors and co sponsors, over 25% of the House. I do not consider

that " insufficient support. " (If you would like I will explain what happened

offline)

" This is not rational, "

" Is that what you want? Really?. zero? "

" Do you have any idea how the political process works? "

These is just condescending and inappropriate.

" Did you give testimoney at any of the committee hearings?

" Next year, I suggest you get on board early....not late "

The " Mother " of this Bill, Phyllis Musumeci, has a child that was

inappropriately restrained and is still dealing with the issues from those

incidents. She has been responsible for R & S Bills the last 3 years in Florida

and is insturmental in the Federal Bill that has passed the US House. She does

not need to be told to " get on board early "

" The legislature only meets for 80 days a year "

I believe it's a 60 day session.

" You need senate and house sponsors. "

There are 120 House members and 40 Senators. Last year they had sponsors to

outlaw trailer hitch balls, I don't believe there will be a problem with

sponsors.

" Cut off your nose to spite your face "

" You are the adults here. Act like it. "

Exactly who is the child? If you don't like someone's politics, fight their

politics, but it is childish and unprofessional to attack the person. It is

especially inappropriate to attack parents that have had their children abused

at the hands of the school districts and who are so passionate about protecting

not only their own children, but all children.

Steve Moyer

wrote:

>

> Before you start contacting the Governor about killing this bill through a

veto, please consider the following:

>

> The bill is not a single subject bill.  If the Governor vetos the bill, the

whole bill dies  including provisions to run more stringent background checks

on people who work in group homes  and  courses to prepare teachers to

identify students with disabilities earlier.  This may not be your issues but

they are issues of our community.

>

> If you are only interested in the R & S part of the bill, yes it was watered

down from the original stand alone version (single subject bill)  but 

contrary to what you think, there was insufficient support of the single subject

bill for it to even make it through committee hearings.  That is why, to save

the Bill, it had to be merged into another bill ......... more subjects, more

support ......If it had been kept as a stand alone bill, you would have zero

now.   Is that what you want? Really?. zero? 

>

> Tell that the father whose daughter was locked repeatedly in a utility closet

with no light on. MINE WAS!

>

> Tell that to someone whose child was restrained in a manner that their

breathing was restricted.  COULD BE YOURS NEXT.  

>

> If even one child is saved by these two measures alone....than that is huge. 

Be as indignant as you like, but do not walk away from even one  single step

towards protection and safety.  This is not rational.

>

> There were no laws on the books at all regarding restraint and seclusion.  Do

you have any idea how the political process works? It is extremely difficult to

create new law from scratch.  The status quo always has more constitutents than

change.  That is why New Laws are almost always piggybacked onto (or merged

into) other bills that are amending existing laws.  Garnering votes through

the committee process is difficult.   Did you give testimoney at any of the

committee hearings?  I did.  It is easy to criticize and complain if you don't

do the work.  Next year, I suggest you get on board early....not

late........and certainly not after the final votes are in.  The people who

got the new law on the books are heroic.  Did they want more, alot more, yes. 

But would they want the Bill killed?  NO!  There is now a place to pick it up

again and go forward.  If you wait to get it the way you want it    you 

will get nothing at all. 

>

> If the Governor signs this Bill into law, then next legislative session you

can work to get a stand alone Bill to amend the law. But you may have to merge

with other single subject bills to braoden the base and get it through.  But

you will need to get involved from the start.......not at the end....from day

one........ to lobby for the amendments and you still will not get them all

through.  This means heavy support .........writing repeatedly to committee

members, making phone calls........writing some more to get the Bill moved

through the councils and committees.    Every day from the first reading of

the Bill through final passage.  That is what it takes, like it or not.

>

> And one final comment:  The legislature only meets for 80 days a year. 

That's it.  You kill this Bill ---- it is not as if it goes anywhere to

improve..........it dies.  And then next year, if you manage to get the bill

killed, who do you think will sponsor it next year?  You need senate and house

sponsors.  And committee chairs who will schedule the bill to be heard and

members who will take the time to shepherd it through and get the votes. 

Legislators will not be lining up to sponsor bills and do the work just to wind

up with a bill that is passed by both the house and senate and then killed by a

veto at the urging of the very people who would benefit from the legislation

.........have them turn on the Bill and on them.  You do realize don't you,

legislator are besieged by groups who want them to sponsor their bills.  There

are 100 times more bills left behind than sponsored.  Why would anyone pick

this bill up again.  There are so many

> issues ........ this was your shot.......and now you want to blow it.    

>

> So go ahead and urge a veto.  Cut off your nose to spite your face. 

Unfortunately, you may very well wind up injuring the very childrern you so

indignantely purport to protect.  The next kid locked in a closet.  The next

child restrained to the point that breathing is restricted..........well, chalk

one up for you..........

>

> Yes, Lights ON and Breathing are important.  You should be urging the

Governor to sign this Bill.  Our kids need their parents to move forward on

their behalf, not squack about it's not enough.

> Zero is not enough.  This is something.  A big something.  You are the

adults here.  Act like it.  Your kids are counting on you!

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I think most parents of autistic children were willing to accept

a compromise but this final version doesn't even come close to a compromise.

You mention how difficult it is to change the status quo but if this bill is

signed by the Governor, it becomes the status quo and the resistance to improve

it increases and we are stuck with it. If more agencies would actually come out

and not support the bill, the message would be clear to the legislators and

perhaps next time they would get it right. This bill is a bad bill and the harm

it does outweighs any benefits.

From:

sList [mailto:sList ] On Behalf

Of Binh Quang Chau

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 10:27 PM

To: sList

Subject: Re: Restraint & Seclusion Bill - NO VETO

PLEASE

Before you start contacting

the Governor about killing this bill through a veto, please consider the

following:

The bill is not a single

subject bill. If the Governor

vetos the bill, the whole bill dies including provisions to run more

stringent background checks on people who work in group homes and

courses to prepare teachers to identify students with disabilities

earlier. This may not be your issues but they are issues of our

community.

If you are only interested in

the R & S part of the bill, yes it was watered down from the original stand

alone version (single subject bill) but contrary to what you think,

there was insufficient support of the single subject bill for it to even make

it through committee hearings. That is why, to save the Bill, it had to

be merged into another bill ......... more subjects, more support ......If

it had been kept as a stand alone bill, you would have zero

now. Is that what you want? Really?. zero?

Tell that the father whose

daughter was locked repeatedly in a utility closet with no light on. MINE

WAS!

Tell that to someone whose

child was restrained in a manner that their breathing was restricted. COULD

BE YOURS NEXT.

If even one child is

saved by these two measures alone....than that is huge. Be as indignant as you like, but do not walk away from

even one single step towards protection and safety. This is not

rational.

There were no laws on the

books at all regarding restraint and seclusion. Do you have any idea how

the political process works? It is extremely difficult to create new law from

scratch. The status quo always has more constitutents than change.

That is why New Laws are almost always piggybacked onto (or merged into) other

bills that are amending existing laws. Garnering votes through the

committee process is difficult. Did you give testimoney at any

of the committee hearings? I did. It is easy to criticize and

complain if you don't do the work. Next year, I suggest you get on board

early....not late........and certainly not after the final votes are

in. The people who got the new law on the books are heroic.

Did they want more, alot more, yes. But would they want the Bill

killed? NO! There is now a place to pick it up again and go

forward. If you wait to get it the way you want it

you will get nothing at all.

If the Governor signs this

Bill into law, then next legislative session you can work to get a stand

alone Bill to amend the law. But you may have to merge with other single

subject bills to braoden the base and get it through. But you will need

to get involved from the start.......not at the end....from day

one........ to lobby for the amendments and you still will not get them

all through. This means heavy support .........writing repeatedly to

committee members, making phone calls........writing some more to get the Bill

moved through the councils and committees. Every day from the

first reading of the Bill through final passage. That is what it takes,

like it or not.

And one final comment:

The legislature only meets for 80 days a year. That's it. You

kill this Bill ---- it is not as if it goes anywhere to improve..........it

dies. And then next year, if you manage to get the bill killed, who

do you think will sponsor it next year? You need senate and house

sponsors. And committee chairs who will schedule the bill to be heard and

members who will take the time to shepherd it through and get the votes.

Legislators will not be lining up to sponsor bills and do the work just to wind

up with a bill that is passed by both the house and senate and then killed by a

veto at the urging of the very people who would benefit from the

legislation ........have them turn on the Bill and on them. You do realize

don't you, legislator are besieged by groups who want them to sponsor their

bills. There are 100 times more bills left behind than sponsored.

Why would anyone pick this bill up again. There are so many issues

......... this was your shot.......and now you want to blow it.

So go ahead and urge a

veto. Cut off your nose to spite your face. Unfortunately, you may

very well wind up injuring the very childrern you so indignantely purport

to protect. The next kid locked in a closet. The next child restrained

to the point that breathing is restricted..........well, chalk one up for

you..........

Yes, Lights ON and

Breathing are important.

You should be urging the Governor to sign this Bill. Our

kids need their parents to move forward on their behalf, not squack about it's

not enough.

Zero is not enough.

This is something. A big something. You are the adults here.

Act like it. Your kids are counting on you!

: Diane Rosenstein

To: sList

Sent: Thu, May 6, 2010 3:54:24 PM

Subject: Re: Great News - HB1073 Restraint & Seclusion

Bill Passed!

Ven,

With

regard to the restraint & seclusion portion of the bill, (which is what is

behind the major thrust of the bill, as I understand it), even if you think

that the bill is " just ok " , please indicate the part that you

think is just ok.

I'm

simply having a hard time comprehending that with all the apparent parental

push for the bill, that the end result could only be language that indicates

" lights on " and " let the student breathe freely " and

NOTHING MORE. (That is, except for the documentation thereof, which STILL

doesn't address that which is allowed or that which is prohibited and the

circumstances for each, etc.)

I

understand, as you indicated, that you didn't write the bill, and I'm not

saying otherwise. However, you seemed at first to be

greatly behind it, and still now " kind of " behind it;

and so I'm just respectfully asking--given that you are a strong spokesperson

for the autism community in Florida and given that you did want to herald

the bill's passing on 's list--to please, if you are AT ALL behind the

bill, to tell us WHY so that we too can see why its worthy of anything more

than repulsion at its lack of anything prohibitive to R & S, and its contrary

" granting " of LIGHT and BREATH to disabled students.

If

you, and also ANYONE, can shed light on ANTHING POSITIVE about the

bill in regard to R & S, please please share your insights.

Sincerely,

Diane

Rosenstein

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Posted
Posted

I think most parents of autistic children were willing to accept

a compromise but this final version doesn't even come close to a compromise.

You mention how difficult it is to change the status quo but if this bill is

signed by the Governor, it becomes the status quo and the resistance to improve

it increases and we are stuck with it. If more agencies would actually come out

and not support the bill, the message would be clear to the legislators and

perhaps next time they would get it right. This bill is a bad bill and the harm

it does outweighs any benefits.

From:

sList [mailto:sList ] On Behalf

Of Binh Quang Chau

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 10:27 PM

To: sList

Subject: Re: Restraint & Seclusion Bill - NO VETO

PLEASE

Before you start contacting

the Governor about killing this bill through a veto, please consider the

following:

The bill is not a single

subject bill. If the Governor

vetos the bill, the whole bill dies including provisions to run more

stringent background checks on people who work in group homes and

courses to prepare teachers to identify students with disabilities

earlier. This may not be your issues but they are issues of our

community.

If you are only interested in

the R & S part of the bill, yes it was watered down from the original stand

alone version (single subject bill) but contrary to what you think,

there was insufficient support of the single subject bill for it to even make

it through committee hearings. That is why, to save the Bill, it had to

be merged into another bill ......... more subjects, more support ......If

it had been kept as a stand alone bill, you would have zero

now. Is that what you want? Really?. zero?

Tell that the father whose

daughter was locked repeatedly in a utility closet with no light on. MINE

WAS!

Tell that to someone whose

child was restrained in a manner that their breathing was restricted. COULD

BE YOURS NEXT.

If even one child is

saved by these two measures alone....than that is huge. Be as indignant as you like, but do not walk away from

even one single step towards protection and safety. This is not

rational.

There were no laws on the

books at all regarding restraint and seclusion. Do you have any idea how

the political process works? It is extremely difficult to create new law from

scratch. The status quo always has more constitutents than change.

That is why New Laws are almost always piggybacked onto (or merged into) other

bills that are amending existing laws. Garnering votes through the

committee process is difficult. Did you give testimoney at any

of the committee hearings? I did. It is easy to criticize and

complain if you don't do the work. Next year, I suggest you get on board

early....not late........and certainly not after the final votes are

in. The people who got the new law on the books are heroic.

Did they want more, alot more, yes. But would they want the Bill

killed? NO! There is now a place to pick it up again and go

forward. If you wait to get it the way you want it

you will get nothing at all.

If the Governor signs this

Bill into law, then next legislative session you can work to get a stand

alone Bill to amend the law. But you may have to merge with other single

subject bills to braoden the base and get it through. But you will need

to get involved from the start.......not at the end....from day

one........ to lobby for the amendments and you still will not get them

all through. This means heavy support .........writing repeatedly to

committee members, making phone calls........writing some more to get the Bill

moved through the councils and committees. Every day from the

first reading of the Bill through final passage. That is what it takes,

like it or not.

And one final comment:

The legislature only meets for 80 days a year. That's it. You

kill this Bill ---- it is not as if it goes anywhere to improve..........it

dies. And then next year, if you manage to get the bill killed, who

do you think will sponsor it next year? You need senate and house

sponsors. And committee chairs who will schedule the bill to be heard and

members who will take the time to shepherd it through and get the votes.

Legislators will not be lining up to sponsor bills and do the work just to wind

up with a bill that is passed by both the house and senate and then killed by a

veto at the urging of the very people who would benefit from the

legislation ........have them turn on the Bill and on them. You do realize

don't you, legislator are besieged by groups who want them to sponsor their

bills. There are 100 times more bills left behind than sponsored.

Why would anyone pick this bill up again. There are so many issues

......... this was your shot.......and now you want to blow it.

So go ahead and urge a

veto. Cut off your nose to spite your face. Unfortunately, you may

very well wind up injuring the very childrern you so indignantely purport

to protect. The next kid locked in a closet. The next child restrained

to the point that breathing is restricted..........well, chalk one up for

you..........

Yes, Lights ON and

Breathing are important.

You should be urging the Governor to sign this Bill. Our

kids need their parents to move forward on their behalf, not squack about it's

not enough.

Zero is not enough.

This is something. A big something. You are the adults here.

Act like it. Your kids are counting on you!

: Diane Rosenstein

To: sList

Sent: Thu, May 6, 2010 3:54:24 PM

Subject: Re: Great News - HB1073 Restraint & Seclusion

Bill Passed!

Ven,

With

regard to the restraint & seclusion portion of the bill, (which is what is

behind the major thrust of the bill, as I understand it), even if you think

that the bill is " just ok " , please indicate the part that you

think is just ok.

I'm

simply having a hard time comprehending that with all the apparent parental

push for the bill, that the end result could only be language that indicates

" lights on " and " let the student breathe freely " and

NOTHING MORE. (That is, except for the documentation thereof, which STILL

doesn't address that which is allowed or that which is prohibited and the

circumstances for each, etc.)

I

understand, as you indicated, that you didn't write the bill, and I'm not

saying otherwise. However, you seemed at first to be

greatly behind it, and still now " kind of " behind it;

and so I'm just respectfully asking--given that you are a strong spokesperson

for the autism community in Florida and given that you did want to herald

the bill's passing on 's list--to please, if you are AT ALL behind the

bill, to tell us WHY so that we too can see why its worthy of anything more

than repulsion at its lack of anything prohibitive to R & S, and its contrary

" granting " of LIGHT and BREATH to disabled students.

If

you, and also ANYONE, can shed light on ANTHING POSITIVE about the

bill in regard to R & S, please please share your insights.

Sincerely,

Diane

Rosenstein

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Posted
Posted

I think most parents of autistic children were willing to accept

a compromise but this final version doesn't even come close to a compromise.

You mention how difficult it is to change the status quo but if this bill is

signed by the Governor, it becomes the status quo and the resistance to improve

it increases and we are stuck with it. If more agencies would actually come out

and not support the bill, the message would be clear to the legislators and

perhaps next time they would get it right. This bill is a bad bill and the harm

it does outweighs any benefits.

From:

sList [mailto:sList ] On Behalf

Of Binh Quang Chau

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 10:27 PM

To: sList

Subject: Re: Restraint & Seclusion Bill - NO VETO

PLEASE

Before you start contacting

the Governor about killing this bill through a veto, please consider the

following:

The bill is not a single

subject bill. If the Governor

vetos the bill, the whole bill dies including provisions to run more

stringent background checks on people who work in group homes and

courses to prepare teachers to identify students with disabilities

earlier. This may not be your issues but they are issues of our

community.

If you are only interested in

the R & S part of the bill, yes it was watered down from the original stand

alone version (single subject bill) but contrary to what you think,

there was insufficient support of the single subject bill for it to even make

it through committee hearings. That is why, to save the Bill, it had to

be merged into another bill ......... more subjects, more support ......If

it had been kept as a stand alone bill, you would have zero

now. Is that what you want? Really?. zero?

Tell that the father whose

daughter was locked repeatedly in a utility closet with no light on. MINE

WAS!

Tell that to someone whose

child was restrained in a manner that their breathing was restricted. COULD

BE YOURS NEXT.

If even one child is

saved by these two measures alone....than that is huge. Be as indignant as you like, but do not walk away from

even one single step towards protection and safety. This is not

rational.

There were no laws on the

books at all regarding restraint and seclusion. Do you have any idea how

the political process works? It is extremely difficult to create new law from

scratch. The status quo always has more constitutents than change.

That is why New Laws are almost always piggybacked onto (or merged into) other

bills that are amending existing laws. Garnering votes through the

committee process is difficult. Did you give testimoney at any

of the committee hearings? I did. It is easy to criticize and

complain if you don't do the work. Next year, I suggest you get on board

early....not late........and certainly not after the final votes are

in. The people who got the new law on the books are heroic.

Did they want more, alot more, yes. But would they want the Bill

killed? NO! There is now a place to pick it up again and go

forward. If you wait to get it the way you want it

you will get nothing at all.

If the Governor signs this

Bill into law, then next legislative session you can work to get a stand

alone Bill to amend the law. But you may have to merge with other single

subject bills to braoden the base and get it through. But you will need

to get involved from the start.......not at the end....from day

one........ to lobby for the amendments and you still will not get them

all through. This means heavy support .........writing repeatedly to

committee members, making phone calls........writing some more to get the Bill

moved through the councils and committees. Every day from the

first reading of the Bill through final passage. That is what it takes,

like it or not.

And one final comment:

The legislature only meets for 80 days a year. That's it. You

kill this Bill ---- it is not as if it goes anywhere to improve..........it

dies. And then next year, if you manage to get the bill killed, who

do you think will sponsor it next year? You need senate and house

sponsors. And committee chairs who will schedule the bill to be heard and

members who will take the time to shepherd it through and get the votes.

Legislators will not be lining up to sponsor bills and do the work just to wind

up with a bill that is passed by both the house and senate and then killed by a

veto at the urging of the very people who would benefit from the

legislation ........have them turn on the Bill and on them. You do realize

don't you, legislator are besieged by groups who want them to sponsor their

bills. There are 100 times more bills left behind than sponsored.

Why would anyone pick this bill up again. There are so many issues

......... this was your shot.......and now you want to blow it.

So go ahead and urge a

veto. Cut off your nose to spite your face. Unfortunately, you may

very well wind up injuring the very childrern you so indignantely purport

to protect. The next kid locked in a closet. The next child restrained

to the point that breathing is restricted..........well, chalk one up for

you..........

Yes, Lights ON and

Breathing are important.

You should be urging the Governor to sign this Bill. Our

kids need their parents to move forward on their behalf, not squack about it's

not enough.

Zero is not enough.

This is something. A big something. You are the adults here.

Act like it. Your kids are counting on you!

: Diane Rosenstein

To: sList

Sent: Thu, May 6, 2010 3:54:24 PM

Subject: Re: Great News - HB1073 Restraint & Seclusion

Bill Passed!

Ven,

With

regard to the restraint & seclusion portion of the bill, (which is what is

behind the major thrust of the bill, as I understand it), even if you think

that the bill is " just ok " , please indicate the part that you

think is just ok.

I'm

simply having a hard time comprehending that with all the apparent parental

push for the bill, that the end result could only be language that indicates

" lights on " and " let the student breathe freely " and

NOTHING MORE. (That is, except for the documentation thereof, which STILL

doesn't address that which is allowed or that which is prohibited and the

circumstances for each, etc.)

I

understand, as you indicated, that you didn't write the bill, and I'm not

saying otherwise. However, you seemed at first to be

greatly behind it, and still now " kind of " behind it;

and so I'm just respectfully asking--given that you are a strong spokesperson

for the autism community in Florida and given that you did want to herald

the bill's passing on 's list--to please, if you are AT ALL behind the

bill, to tell us WHY so that we too can see why its worthy of anything more

than repulsion at its lack of anything prohibitive to R & S, and its contrary

" granting " of LIGHT and BREATH to disabled students.

If

you, and also ANYONE, can shed light on ANTHING POSITIVE about the

bill in regard to R & S, please please share your insights.

Sincerely,

Diane

Rosenstein

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Share on other sites
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Posted
Posted

Parents and Advocates,

I have read a few emails and see that there are some who are unhappy with the R/S legislation. I too am disappointed that our original bill was replaced with a much weaker staff rendition. But should you push for a veto?

It seems the push of a veto is coming from those who do not realize how very difficult and complex this legislative process really is, and how much effort was put forth just to get this legislation sponsored and heard. Some think that no legislation is better than what passed. I think that the simple notification of restraint and seclusion that will now be required, compared to it continuing on without parents' knowledge, is better than nothing. Nothing is what we got the past three years, when we pushed for it all. A different approach was taken this year, and some might argue that nothing is better than what we got. I respectfully disagree.

I worked very hard just to get a sponsor for this bill that would work it and Dorothy Hukill did just that. Sylvia from the Advocacy Center, Phyllis and the Families Against Restraint and Seclusion, and many other organizations worked very hard to foster it's passage along the way. We were warned, 'one critical comment' in committee and it would have been TP'd (temporarily postponed) indefinitely, in other words dead. It is difficult to pass laws when agencies like DOE who reports to the Governor's office and can ask for a veto, are opposed to it, as were many school districts, teachers unions, behavior analysts, etc.

Are there holes in this bill? Absolutely. Did we get what we wanted? Absolutely not. But just to get it on the first House committee agenda, we had to agree to their version, with our good intentions to fix it along the way. All legislation with such strong opposition is difficult to swallow the first year because it looks nothing like what was originally proposed. There are also many personalities involved. Some legislators do not want sweeping legislation when there is strong opposition. And some were concerned with existing law for other agencies such as DCF, DJJ and providers under section 393 which conflict. Many legislators often tend to take a few years to try to get it right. For example, in our case, the sponsor in the Senate did not want to include definitions of mechanical restraint. This would have put some teeth in our bill. He has intentions of doing it next year after he sees what kind of reporting is documented.

To us it's a no brainer, and difficult to understand the whys and why nots. This legislation will be improved in subsequent years, and we intend to follow through on it. Next year, the opposition will not be as strong. There are ways to do it in conforming language and amending other bills that open up this statute, without waving red flags.

But is it better than nothing? That's what I see you all debating.

I for one know how much time, travel, expense, effort, pleading, blisters, and sweat, went into this bill just to get it heard. Until you've walked a mile in the shoes of those actually there in Tallahassee, during the very stressful session while billions are being cut and everyone is complaining, working in the trenches until the wee hours, counting on dedicated lawmakers who don't necessarily make the final decision, and chasing elusive ones who do, convincing legislative and agency staff, and pleading with leadership, it is easy to criticize.

And with all that preparation, work and advocacy, we only got to first base. Leadership obviously feels they don’t have enough information to act, and it is your job to furnish it. I urge you not push for a veto. I would however encourage each and every one of you to follow this new legislation closely as it applies to your child, collect data on reports of the incidents, ask questions in your school with respect to compliance, and take pictures. We can prepare amendments to this new statute to provide more substance and deal with the glitches, but we need to include supporting data and details to present next session.

We did our very best, and sincerely apologize if it was not good enough.

Goldstein

K. Goldstein Goldstein Consulting, IncEducation - Health & Human Services - State & Local Government - Business

To: sList From: ssmoyer@...Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 01:09:45 +0000Subject: Re: Restraint & Seclusion Bill - NO VETO PLEASE

Hello Binh,Just to point out a few things. "contrary to what you think, there was insufficient support of the single subject bill for it to even make it through committee hearings."HB81 had 35 sponsors and co sponsors, over 25% of the House. I do not consider that "insufficient support." (If you would like I will explain what happened offline)"This is not rational,""Is that what you want? Really?. zero?""Do you have any idea how the political process works?"These is just condescending and inappropriate."Did you give testimoney at any of the committee hearings?"Next year, I suggest you get on board early....not late"The "Mother" of this Bill, Phyllis Musumeci, has a child that was inappropriately restrained and is still dealing with the issues from those incidents. She has been responsible for R & S Bills the last 3 years in Florida and is insturmental in the Federal Bill that has passed the US House. She does not need to be told to "get on board early""The legislature only meets for 80 days a year"I believe it's a 60 day session."You need senate and house sponsors."There are 120 House members and 40 Senators. Last year they had sponsors to outlaw trailer hitch balls, I don't believe there will be a problem with sponsors."Cut off your nose to spite your face""You are the adults here. Act like it."Exactly who is the child? If you don't like someone's politics, fight their politics, but it is childish and unprofessional to attack the person. It is especially inappropriate to attack parents that have had their children abused at the hands of the school districts and who are so passionate about protecting not only their own children, but all children.Steve Moyer wrote:>> Before you start contacting the Governor about killing this bill through a veto, please consider the following:> > The bill is not a single subject bill. If the Governor vetos the bill, the whole bill dies including provisions to run more stringent background checks on people who work in group homes and courses to prepare teachers to identify students with disabilities earlier. This may not be your issues but they are issues of our community.> > If you are only interested in the R & S part of the bill, yes it was watered down from the original stand alone version (single subject bill) but contrary to what you think, there was insufficient support of the single subject bill for it to even make it through committee hearings. That is why, to save the Bill, it had to be merged into another bill ......... more subjects, more support ......If it had been kept as a stand alone bill, you would have zero now.  Is that what you want? Really?. zero? > > Tell that the father whose daughter was locked repeatedly in a utility closet with no light on. MINE WAS!> > Tell that to someone whose child was restrained in a manner that their breathing was restricted. COULD BE YOURS NEXT.  > > If even one child is saved by these two measures alone....than that is huge. Be as indignant as you like, but do not walk away from even one single step towards protection and safety. This is not rational.> > There were no laws on the books at all regarding restraint and seclusion. Do you have any idea how the political process works? It is extremely difficult to create new law from scratch. The status quo always has more constitutents than change. That is why New Laws are almost always piggybacked onto (or merged into) other bills that are amending existing laws.  Garnering votes through the committee process is difficult.  Did you give testimoney at any of the committee hearings? I did. It is easy to criticize and complain if you don't do the work. Next year, I suggest you get on board early....not late........and certainly not after the final votes are in.  The people who got the new law on the books are heroic. Did they want more, alot more, yes. But would they want the Bill killed? NO! There is now a place to pick it up again and go forward.  If you wait to get it the way you want it   you will get nothing at all. > > If the Governor signs this Bill into law, then next legislative session you can work to get a stand alone Bill to amend the law. But you may have to merge with other single subject bills to braoden the base and get it through. But you will need to get involved from the start.......not at the end....from day one........ to lobby for the amendments and you still will not get them all through. This means heavy support .........writing repeatedly to committee members, making phone calls........writing some more to get the Bill moved through the councils and committees.  Every day from the first reading of the Bill through final passage. That is what it takes, like it or not.> > And one final comment: The legislature only meets for 80 days a year. That's it. You kill this Bill ---- it is not as if it goes anywhere to improve..........it dies. And then next year, if you manage to get the bill killed, who do you think will sponsor it next year? You need senate and house sponsors. And committee chairs who will schedule the bill to be heard and members who will take the time to shepherd it through and get the votes. Legislators will not be lining up to sponsor bills and do the work just to wind up with a bill that is passed by both the house and senate and then killed by a veto at the urging of the very people who would benefit from the legislation ........have them turn on the Bill and on them. You do realize don't you, legislator are besieged by groups who want them to sponsor their bills. There are 100 times more bills left behind than sponsored. Why would anyone pick this bill up again. There are so many> issues ........ this was your shot.......and now you want to blow it.   > > So go ahead and urge a veto. Cut off your nose to spite your face. Unfortunately, you may very well wind up injuring the very childrern you so indignantely purport to protect. The next kid locked in a closet. The next child restrained to the point that breathing is restricted..........well, chalk one up for you..........> > Yes, Lights ON and Breathing are important. You should be urging the Governor to sign this Bill. Our kids need their parents to move forward on their behalf, not squack about it's not enough.> Zero is not enough. This is something. A big something. You are the adults here. Act like it. Your kids are counting on you!

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Posted
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Parents and Advocates,

I have read a few emails and see that there are some who are unhappy with the R/S legislation. I too am disappointed that our original bill was replaced with a much weaker staff rendition. But should you push for a veto?

It seems the push of a veto is coming from those who do not realize how very difficult and complex this legislative process really is, and how much effort was put forth just to get this legislation sponsored and heard. Some think that no legislation is better than what passed. I think that the simple notification of restraint and seclusion that will now be required, compared to it continuing on without parents' knowledge, is better than nothing. Nothing is what we got the past three years, when we pushed for it all. A different approach was taken this year, and some might argue that nothing is better than what we got. I respectfully disagree.

I worked very hard just to get a sponsor for this bill that would work it and Dorothy Hukill did just that. Sylvia from the Advocacy Center, Phyllis and the Families Against Restraint and Seclusion, and many other organizations worked very hard to foster it's passage along the way. We were warned, 'one critical comment' in committee and it would have been TP'd (temporarily postponed) indefinitely, in other words dead. It is difficult to pass laws when agencies like DOE who reports to the Governor's office and can ask for a veto, are opposed to it, as were many school districts, teachers unions, behavior analysts, etc.

Are there holes in this bill? Absolutely. Did we get what we wanted? Absolutely not. But just to get it on the first House committee agenda, we had to agree to their version, with our good intentions to fix it along the way. All legislation with such strong opposition is difficult to swallow the first year because it looks nothing like what was originally proposed. There are also many personalities involved. Some legislators do not want sweeping legislation when there is strong opposition. And some were concerned with existing law for other agencies such as DCF, DJJ and providers under section 393 which conflict. Many legislators often tend to take a few years to try to get it right. For example, in our case, the sponsor in the Senate did not want to include definitions of mechanical restraint. This would have put some teeth in our bill. He has intentions of doing it next year after he sees what kind of reporting is documented.

To us it's a no brainer, and difficult to understand the whys and why nots. This legislation will be improved in subsequent years, and we intend to follow through on it. Next year, the opposition will not be as strong. There are ways to do it in conforming language and amending other bills that open up this statute, without waving red flags.

But is it better than nothing? That's what I see you all debating.

I for one know how much time, travel, expense, effort, pleading, blisters, and sweat, went into this bill just to get it heard. Until you've walked a mile in the shoes of those actually there in Tallahassee, during the very stressful session while billions are being cut and everyone is complaining, working in the trenches until the wee hours, counting on dedicated lawmakers who don't necessarily make the final decision, and chasing elusive ones who do, convincing legislative and agency staff, and pleading with leadership, it is easy to criticize.

And with all that preparation, work and advocacy, we only got to first base. Leadership obviously feels they don’t have enough information to act, and it is your job to furnish it. I urge you not push for a veto. I would however encourage each and every one of you to follow this new legislation closely as it applies to your child, collect data on reports of the incidents, ask questions in your school with respect to compliance, and take pictures. We can prepare amendments to this new statute to provide more substance and deal with the glitches, but we need to include supporting data and details to present next session.

We did our very best, and sincerely apologize if it was not good enough.

Goldstein

K. Goldstein Goldstein Consulting, IncEducation - Health & Human Services - State & Local Government - Business

To: sList From: ssmoyer@...Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 01:09:45 +0000Subject: Re: Restraint & Seclusion Bill - NO VETO PLEASE

Hello Binh,Just to point out a few things. "contrary to what you think, there was insufficient support of the single subject bill for it to even make it through committee hearings."HB81 had 35 sponsors and co sponsors, over 25% of the House. I do not consider that "insufficient support." (If you would like I will explain what happened offline)"This is not rational,""Is that what you want? Really?. zero?""Do you have any idea how the political process works?"These is just condescending and inappropriate."Did you give testimoney at any of the committee hearings?"Next year, I suggest you get on board early....not late"The "Mother" of this Bill, Phyllis Musumeci, has a child that was inappropriately restrained and is still dealing with the issues from those incidents. She has been responsible for R & S Bills the last 3 years in Florida and is insturmental in the Federal Bill that has passed the US House. She does not need to be told to "get on board early""The legislature only meets for 80 days a year"I believe it's a 60 day session."You need senate and house sponsors."There are 120 House members and 40 Senators. Last year they had sponsors to outlaw trailer hitch balls, I don't believe there will be a problem with sponsors."Cut off your nose to spite your face""You are the adults here. Act like it."Exactly who is the child? If you don't like someone's politics, fight their politics, but it is childish and unprofessional to attack the person. It is especially inappropriate to attack parents that have had their children abused at the hands of the school districts and who are so passionate about protecting not only their own children, but all children.Steve Moyer wrote:>> Before you start contacting the Governor about killing this bill through a veto, please consider the following:> > The bill is not a single subject bill. If the Governor vetos the bill, the whole bill dies including provisions to run more stringent background checks on people who work in group homes and courses to prepare teachers to identify students with disabilities earlier. This may not be your issues but they are issues of our community.> > If you are only interested in the R & S part of the bill, yes it was watered down from the original stand alone version (single subject bill) but contrary to what you think, there was insufficient support of the single subject bill for it to even make it through committee hearings. That is why, to save the Bill, it had to be merged into another bill ......... more subjects, more support ......If it had been kept as a stand alone bill, you would have zero now.  Is that what you want? Really?. zero? > > Tell that the father whose daughter was locked repeatedly in a utility closet with no light on. MINE WAS!> > Tell that to someone whose child was restrained in a manner that their breathing was restricted. COULD BE YOURS NEXT.  > > If even one child is saved by these two measures alone....than that is huge. Be as indignant as you like, but do not walk away from even one single step towards protection and safety. This is not rational.> > There were no laws on the books at all regarding restraint and seclusion. Do you have any idea how the political process works? It is extremely difficult to create new law from scratch. The status quo always has more constitutents than change. That is why New Laws are almost always piggybacked onto (or merged into) other bills that are amending existing laws.  Garnering votes through the committee process is difficult.  Did you give testimoney at any of the committee hearings? I did. It is easy to criticize and complain if you don't do the work. Next year, I suggest you get on board early....not late........and certainly not after the final votes are in.  The people who got the new law on the books are heroic. Did they want more, alot more, yes. But would they want the Bill killed? NO! There is now a place to pick it up again and go forward.  If you wait to get it the way you want it   you will get nothing at all. > > If the Governor signs this Bill into law, then next legislative session you can work to get a stand alone Bill to amend the law. But you may have to merge with other single subject bills to braoden the base and get it through. But you will need to get involved from the start.......not at the end....from day one........ to lobby for the amendments and you still will not get them all through. This means heavy support .........writing repeatedly to committee members, making phone calls........writing some more to get the Bill moved through the councils and committees.  Every day from the first reading of the Bill through final passage. That is what it takes, like it or not.> > And one final comment: The legislature only meets for 80 days a year. That's it. You kill this Bill ---- it is not as if it goes anywhere to improve..........it dies. And then next year, if you manage to get the bill killed, who do you think will sponsor it next year? You need senate and house sponsors. And committee chairs who will schedule the bill to be heard and members who will take the time to shepherd it through and get the votes. Legislators will not be lining up to sponsor bills and do the work just to wind up with a bill that is passed by both the house and senate and then killed by a veto at the urging of the very people who would benefit from the legislation ........have them turn on the Bill and on them. You do realize don't you, legislator are besieged by groups who want them to sponsor their bills. There are 100 times more bills left behind than sponsored. Why would anyone pick this bill up again. There are so many> issues ........ this was your shot.......and now you want to blow it.   > > So go ahead and urge a veto. Cut off your nose to spite your face. Unfortunately, you may very well wind up injuring the very childrern you so indignantely purport to protect. The next kid locked in a closet. The next child restrained to the point that breathing is restricted..........well, chalk one up for you..........> > Yes, Lights ON and Breathing are important. You should be urging the Governor to sign this Bill. Our kids need their parents to move forward on their behalf, not squack about it's not enough.> Zero is not enough. This is something. A big something. You are the adults here. Act like it. Your kids are counting on you!

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Posted

Parents and Advocates,

I have read a few emails and see that there are some who are unhappy with the R/S legislation. I too am disappointed that our original bill was replaced with a much weaker staff rendition. But should you push for a veto?

It seems the push of a veto is coming from those who do not realize how very difficult and complex this legislative process really is, and how much effort was put forth just to get this legislation sponsored and heard. Some think that no legislation is better than what passed. I think that the simple notification of restraint and seclusion that will now be required, compared to it continuing on without parents' knowledge, is better than nothing. Nothing is what we got the past three years, when we pushed for it all. A different approach was taken this year, and some might argue that nothing is better than what we got. I respectfully disagree.

I worked very hard just to get a sponsor for this bill that would work it and Dorothy Hukill did just that. Sylvia from the Advocacy Center, Phyllis and the Families Against Restraint and Seclusion, and many other organizations worked very hard to foster it's passage along the way. We were warned, 'one critical comment' in committee and it would have been TP'd (temporarily postponed) indefinitely, in other words dead. It is difficult to pass laws when agencies like DOE who reports to the Governor's office and can ask for a veto, are opposed to it, as were many school districts, teachers unions, behavior analysts, etc.

Are there holes in this bill? Absolutely. Did we get what we wanted? Absolutely not. But just to get it on the first House committee agenda, we had to agree to their version, with our good intentions to fix it along the way. All legislation with such strong opposition is difficult to swallow the first year because it looks nothing like what was originally proposed. There are also many personalities involved. Some legislators do not want sweeping legislation when there is strong opposition. And some were concerned with existing law for other agencies such as DCF, DJJ and providers under section 393 which conflict. Many legislators often tend to take a few years to try to get it right. For example, in our case, the sponsor in the Senate did not want to include definitions of mechanical restraint. This would have put some teeth in our bill. He has intentions of doing it next year after he sees what kind of reporting is documented.

To us it's a no brainer, and difficult to understand the whys and why nots. This legislation will be improved in subsequent years, and we intend to follow through on it. Next year, the opposition will not be as strong. There are ways to do it in conforming language and amending other bills that open up this statute, without waving red flags.

But is it better than nothing? That's what I see you all debating.

I for one know how much time, travel, expense, effort, pleading, blisters, and sweat, went into this bill just to get it heard. Until you've walked a mile in the shoes of those actually there in Tallahassee, during the very stressful session while billions are being cut and everyone is complaining, working in the trenches until the wee hours, counting on dedicated lawmakers who don't necessarily make the final decision, and chasing elusive ones who do, convincing legislative and agency staff, and pleading with leadership, it is easy to criticize.

And with all that preparation, work and advocacy, we only got to first base. Leadership obviously feels they don’t have enough information to act, and it is your job to furnish it. I urge you not push for a veto. I would however encourage each and every one of you to follow this new legislation closely as it applies to your child, collect data on reports of the incidents, ask questions in your school with respect to compliance, and take pictures. We can prepare amendments to this new statute to provide more substance and deal with the glitches, but we need to include supporting data and details to present next session.

We did our very best, and sincerely apologize if it was not good enough.

Goldstein

K. Goldstein Goldstein Consulting, IncEducation - Health & Human Services - State & Local Government - Business

To: sList From: ssmoyer@...Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 01:09:45 +0000Subject: Re: Restraint & Seclusion Bill - NO VETO PLEASE

Hello Binh,Just to point out a few things. "contrary to what you think, there was insufficient support of the single subject bill for it to even make it through committee hearings."HB81 had 35 sponsors and co sponsors, over 25% of the House. I do not consider that "insufficient support." (If you would like I will explain what happened offline)"This is not rational,""Is that what you want? Really?. zero?""Do you have any idea how the political process works?"These is just condescending and inappropriate."Did you give testimoney at any of the committee hearings?"Next year, I suggest you get on board early....not late"The "Mother" of this Bill, Phyllis Musumeci, has a child that was inappropriately restrained and is still dealing with the issues from those incidents. She has been responsible for R & S Bills the last 3 years in Florida and is insturmental in the Federal Bill that has passed the US House. She does not need to be told to "get on board early""The legislature only meets for 80 days a year"I believe it's a 60 day session."You need senate and house sponsors."There are 120 House members and 40 Senators. Last year they had sponsors to outlaw trailer hitch balls, I don't believe there will be a problem with sponsors."Cut off your nose to spite your face""You are the adults here. Act like it."Exactly who is the child? If you don't like someone's politics, fight their politics, but it is childish and unprofessional to attack the person. It is especially inappropriate to attack parents that have had their children abused at the hands of the school districts and who are so passionate about protecting not only their own children, but all children.Steve Moyer wrote:>> Before you start contacting the Governor about killing this bill through a veto, please consider the following:> > The bill is not a single subject bill. If the Governor vetos the bill, the whole bill dies including provisions to run more stringent background checks on people who work in group homes and courses to prepare teachers to identify students with disabilities earlier. This may not be your issues but they are issues of our community.> > If you are only interested in the R & S part of the bill, yes it was watered down from the original stand alone version (single subject bill) but contrary to what you think, there was insufficient support of the single subject bill for it to even make it through committee hearings. That is why, to save the Bill, it had to be merged into another bill ......... more subjects, more support ......If it had been kept as a stand alone bill, you would have zero now.  Is that what you want? Really?. zero? > > Tell that the father whose daughter was locked repeatedly in a utility closet with no light on. MINE WAS!> > Tell that to someone whose child was restrained in a manner that their breathing was restricted. COULD BE YOURS NEXT.  > > If even one child is saved by these two measures alone....than that is huge. Be as indignant as you like, but do not walk away from even one single step towards protection and safety. This is not rational.> > There were no laws on the books at all regarding restraint and seclusion. Do you have any idea how the political process works? It is extremely difficult to create new law from scratch. The status quo always has more constitutents than change. That is why New Laws are almost always piggybacked onto (or merged into) other bills that are amending existing laws.  Garnering votes through the committee process is difficult.  Did you give testimoney at any of the committee hearings? I did. It is easy to criticize and complain if you don't do the work. Next year, I suggest you get on board early....not late........and certainly not after the final votes are in.  The people who got the new law on the books are heroic. Did they want more, alot more, yes. But would they want the Bill killed? NO! There is now a place to pick it up again and go forward.  If you wait to get it the way you want it   you will get nothing at all. > > If the Governor signs this Bill into law, then next legislative session you can work to get a stand alone Bill to amend the law. But you may have to merge with other single subject bills to braoden the base and get it through. But you will need to get involved from the start.......not at the end....from day one........ to lobby for the amendments and you still will not get them all through. This means heavy support .........writing repeatedly to committee members, making phone calls........writing some more to get the Bill moved through the councils and committees.  Every day from the first reading of the Bill through final passage. That is what it takes, like it or not.> > And one final comment: The legislature only meets for 80 days a year. That's it. You kill this Bill ---- it is not as if it goes anywhere to improve..........it dies. And then next year, if you manage to get the bill killed, who do you think will sponsor it next year? You need senate and house sponsors. And committee chairs who will schedule the bill to be heard and members who will take the time to shepherd it through and get the votes. Legislators will not be lining up to sponsor bills and do the work just to wind up with a bill that is passed by both the house and senate and then killed by a veto at the urging of the very people who would benefit from the legislation ........have them turn on the Bill and on them. You do realize don't you, legislator are besieged by groups who want them to sponsor their bills. There are 100 times more bills left behind than sponsored. Why would anyone pick this bill up again. There are so many> issues ........ this was your shot.......and now you want to blow it.   > > So go ahead and urge a veto. Cut off your nose to spite your face. Unfortunately, you may very well wind up injuring the very childrern you so indignantely purport to protect. The next kid locked in a closet. The next child restrained to the point that breathing is restricted..........well, chalk one up for you..........> > Yes, Lights ON and Breathing are important. You should be urging the Governor to sign this Bill. Our kids need their parents to move forward on their behalf, not squack about it's not enough.> Zero is not enough. This is something. A big something. You are the adults here. Act like it. Your kids are counting on you!

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Posted
Posted

I would like to thank everyone who put in long hours fighting

for safeguards for our children. But honestly I don't understand the reasoning

behind anyone who would support this bill. In many ways it will legalize abuse.

Reporting it will not stop it. Personally I would prefer the  message that

states the agencies and parents of autistic children do not support this

legislation then the message that states Florida has passed a bill that

prevents abuse in the schools. Truth and the message should be on the same side.

From:

sList [mailto:sList ] On Behalf

Of K. Goldstein

Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 2:30 PM

To: Karp

Subject: RE: Re: Restraint & Seclusion Bill - NO VETO

PLEASE

Importance: High

Parents

and Advocates,

I

have read a few emails and see that there are some who are

unhappy with the R/S legislation. I too am disappointed that

our original bill was replaced with a much weaker staff rendition. But

should you push for a veto?

It seems the

push of a veto is coming from those who do not realize how very difficult and

complex this legislative process really is, and how much effort was put forth

just to get this legislation sponsored and heard. Some think that no

legislation is better than what passed. I think that the

simple notification of restraint and seclusion that will now be required,

compared to it continuing on without parents' knowledge, is better than

nothing. Nothing is what we got the past three years, when we pushed for

it all. A different approach was taken this year, and some might

argue that nothing is better than what we got. I respectfully disagree.

I worked very

hard just to get a sponsor for this bill that would work it and Dorothy Hukill

did just that. Sylvia from the Advocacy Center, Phyllis and the Families

Against Restraint and Seclusion, and many other organizations worked very hard

to foster it's passage along the way. We were warned, 'one critical comment' in

committee and it would have been TP'd (temporarily postponed) indefinitely, in

other words dead. It is difficult to pass laws when agencies like DOE

who reports to the Governor's office and can ask for a veto, are

opposed to it, as were many school districts, teachers unions, behavior

analysts, etc.

Are there

holes in this bill? Absolutely. Did we get what we wanted? Absolutely not.

But just to get it on the first House committee agenda, we had to agree to

their version, with our good intentions to fix it along the way. All

legislation with such strong opposition is difficult to swallow the first year

because it looks nothing like what was originally proposed. There are

also many personalities involved. Some legislators do not want sweeping

legislation when there is strong opposition. And some were concerned with

existing law for other agencies such as DCF, DJJ and providers under section

393 which conflict. Many legislators often tend to take a few years to try

to get it right. For example, in our case, the sponsor in the Senate did

not want to include definitions of mechanical restraint. This would

have put some teeth in our bill. He has intentions of doing it next year after

he sees what kind of reporting is documented.

To us it's a

no brainer, and difficult to understand the whys and why nots. This

legislation will be improved in subsequent years, and we intend to follow

through on it. Next year, the opposition will not be as strong. There are

ways to do it in conforming language and amending other bills that open up this

statute, without waving red flags.

But is it

better than nothing? That's what I see you all debating.

I for one

know how much time, travel, expense, effort, pleading, blisters, and sweat,

went into this bill just to get it heard. Until you've walked a mile in

the shoes of those actually there in Tallahassee, during the very stressful

session while billions are being cut and everyone is complaining,

working in the trenches until the wee hours, counting on dedicated

lawmakers who don't necessarily make the final decision, and chasing

elusive ones who do, convincing legislative and agency staff, and pleading with

leadership, it is easy to criticize.

And with

all that preparation, work and advocacy, we only got to first

base. Leadership obviously feels they don’t have enough information

to act, and it is your job to furnish it. I urge you not push for a veto.

I would however encourage each and every one of you to follow this new

legislation closely as it applies to your child, collect data on reports of the

incidents, ask questions in your school with respect to compliance, and take

pictures. We can prepare amendments to this new statute to provide

more substance and deal with the glitches, but we need to include

supporting data and details to present next session.

We did our

very best, and sincerely apologize if it was not good enough.

Goldstein

K. Goldstein

Goldstein Consulting, Inc

Education -

Health & Human Services - State & Local Government - Business

To: sList

From: ssmoyer@...

Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 01:09:45 +0000

Subject: Re: Restraint & Seclusion Bill - NO VETO PLEASE

Hello Binh,

Just to point out a few things.

" contrary to what you think, there was insufficient support of the single

subject bill for it to even make it through committee hearings. "

HB81 had 35 sponsors and co sponsors, over 25% of the House. I do not consider

that " insufficient support. " (If you would like I will explain what

happened offline)

" This is not rational, "

" Is that what you want? Really?. zero? "

" Do you have any idea how the political process works? "

These is just condescending and inappropriate.

" Did you give testimoney at any of the committee hearings?

" Next year, I suggest you get on board early....not late "

The " Mother " of this Bill, Phyllis Musumeci, has a child that was

inappropriately restrained and is still dealing with the issues from those

incidents. She has been responsible for R & S Bills the last 3 years in

Florida and is insturmental in the Federal Bill that has passed the US House.

She does not need to be told to " get on board early "

" The legislature only meets for 80 days a year "

I believe it's a 60 day session.

" You need senate and house sponsors. "

There are 120 House members and 40 Senators. Last year they had sponsors to

outlaw trailer hitch balls, I don't believe there will be a problem with

sponsors.

" Cut off your nose to spite your face "

" You are the adults here. Act like it. "

Exactly who is the child? If you don't like someone's politics, fight their

politics, but it is childish and unprofessional to attack the person. It is

especially inappropriate to attack parents that have had their children abused

at the hands of the school districts and who are so passionate about protecting

not only their own children, but all children.

Steve Moyer

wrote:

>

> Before you start contacting the Governor about killing this bill through a

veto, please consider the following:

>

> The bill is not a single subject bill. If the Governor vetos the

bill, the whole bill dies including provisions to run more stringent

background checks on people who work in group homes and courses

to prepare teachers to identify students with disabilities earlier. This

may not be your issues but they are issues of our community.

>

> If you are only interested in the R & S part of the bill, yes it was

watered down from the original stand alone version (single subject bill)Â

but contrary to what you think, there was insufficient support of the

single subject bill for it to even make it through committee hearings.Â

That is why, to save the Bill, it had to be merged into another bill .........

more subjects, more support ......If it had been kept as a stand alone bill,

you would have zero now.  Is that what you want? Really?.

zero?Â

>

> Tell that the father whose daughter was locked repeatedly in a utility

closet with no light on. MINE WAS!

>

> Tell that to someone whose child was restrained in a manner that their

breathing was restricted. COULD BE YOURS NEXT. Â

>

> If even one child is saved by these two measures alone....than that is

huge. Be as indignant as you like, but do not walk away from even

one single step towards protection and safety. This is not

rational.

>

> There were no laws on the books at all regarding restraint and

seclusion. Do you have any idea how the political process works? It is

extremely difficult to create new law from scratch. The status quo

always has more constitutents than change. That is why New Laws are

almost always piggybacked onto (or merged into) other bills that are amending

existing laws.  Garnering votes through the committee

process is difficult.  Did you give testimoney at any of the

committee hearings? I did. It is easy to criticize and complain

if you don't do the work. Next year, I suggest you get on board

early....not late........and certainly not after the final votes are

in.  The people who got the new law on the books are heroic.Â

Did they want more, alot more, yes. But would they want the Bill

killed? NO! There is now a place to pick it up again and go

forward.  If you wait to get it the way you want it  Â

you will get nothing at all.Â

>

> If the Governor signs this Bill into law, then next legislative session

you can work to get a stand alone Bill to amend the law. But you may have

to merge with other single subject bills to braoden the base and get it

through. But you will need to get involved from the start.......not at

the end....from day one........ to lobby for the amendments and you still

will not get them all through. This means heavy support .........writing

repeatedly to committee members, making phone calls........writing some more to

get the Bill moved through the councils and committees.  Every

day from the first reading of the Bill through final passage. That is

what it takes, like it or not.

>

> And one final comment:Â The legislature only meets for 80 days a

year. That's it. You kill this Bill ---- it is not as if it goes

anywhere to improve..........it dies. And then next year, if you manage

to get the bill killed, who do you think will sponsor it next year? You

need senate and house sponsors. And committee chairs who will schedule

the bill to be heard and members who will take the time to shepherd it through

and get the votes. Legislators will not be lining up to sponsor bills

and do the work just to wind up with a bill that is passed by both the house

and senate and then killed by a veto at the urging of the very people who

would benefit from the legislation ........have them turn on the Bill and on

them. You do realize don't you, legislator are besieged by groups who

want them to sponsor their bills. There are 100 times more bills left

behind than sponsored. Why would anyone pick this bill up again.Â

There are so many

> issues ........ this was your shot.......and now you want to blow

it.  Â

>

> So go ahead and urge a veto. Cut off your nose to spite your

face. Unfortunately, you may very well wind up injuring the very

childrern you so indignantely purport to protect. The next kid

locked in a closet. The next child restrained to the point that breathing

is restricted..........well, chalk one up for you..........

>

> Yes, Lights ON and Breathing are important. You should be urging

the Governor to sign this Bill. Our kids need their parents to move

forward on their behalf, not squack about it's not enough.

> Zero is not enough. This is something. A big

something. You are the adults here. Act like it. Your kids

are counting on you!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

I would like to thank everyone who put in long hours fighting

for safeguards for our children. But honestly I don't understand the reasoning

behind anyone who would support this bill. In many ways it will legalize abuse.

Reporting it will not stop it. Personally I would prefer the  message that

states the agencies and parents of autistic children do not support this

legislation then the message that states Florida has passed a bill that

prevents abuse in the schools. Truth and the message should be on the same side.

From:

sList [mailto:sList ] On Behalf

Of K. Goldstein

Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 2:30 PM

To: Karp

Subject: RE: Re: Restraint & Seclusion Bill - NO VETO

PLEASE

Importance: High

Parents

and Advocates,

I

have read a few emails and see that there are some who are

unhappy with the R/S legislation. I too am disappointed that

our original bill was replaced with a much weaker staff rendition. But

should you push for a veto?

It seems the

push of a veto is coming from those who do not realize how very difficult and

complex this legislative process really is, and how much effort was put forth

just to get this legislation sponsored and heard. Some think that no

legislation is better than what passed. I think that the

simple notification of restraint and seclusion that will now be required,

compared to it continuing on without parents' knowledge, is better than

nothing. Nothing is what we got the past three years, when we pushed for

it all. A different approach was taken this year, and some might

argue that nothing is better than what we got. I respectfully disagree.

I worked very

hard just to get a sponsor for this bill that would work it and Dorothy Hukill

did just that. Sylvia from the Advocacy Center, Phyllis and the Families

Against Restraint and Seclusion, and many other organizations worked very hard

to foster it's passage along the way. We were warned, 'one critical comment' in

committee and it would have been TP'd (temporarily postponed) indefinitely, in

other words dead. It is difficult to pass laws when agencies like DOE

who reports to the Governor's office and can ask for a veto, are

opposed to it, as were many school districts, teachers unions, behavior

analysts, etc.

Are there

holes in this bill? Absolutely. Did we get what we wanted? Absolutely not.

But just to get it on the first House committee agenda, we had to agree to

their version, with our good intentions to fix it along the way. All

legislation with such strong opposition is difficult to swallow the first year

because it looks nothing like what was originally proposed. There are

also many personalities involved. Some legislators do not want sweeping

legislation when there is strong opposition. And some were concerned with

existing law for other agencies such as DCF, DJJ and providers under section

393 which conflict. Many legislators often tend to take a few years to try

to get it right. For example, in our case, the sponsor in the Senate did

not want to include definitions of mechanical restraint. This would

have put some teeth in our bill. He has intentions of doing it next year after

he sees what kind of reporting is documented.

To us it's a

no brainer, and difficult to understand the whys and why nots. This

legislation will be improved in subsequent years, and we intend to follow

through on it. Next year, the opposition will not be as strong. There are

ways to do it in conforming language and amending other bills that open up this

statute, without waving red flags.

But is it

better than nothing? That's what I see you all debating.

I for one

know how much time, travel, expense, effort, pleading, blisters, and sweat,

went into this bill just to get it heard. Until you've walked a mile in

the shoes of those actually there in Tallahassee, during the very stressful

session while billions are being cut and everyone is complaining,

working in the trenches until the wee hours, counting on dedicated

lawmakers who don't necessarily make the final decision, and chasing

elusive ones who do, convincing legislative and agency staff, and pleading with

leadership, it is easy to criticize.

And with

all that preparation, work and advocacy, we only got to first

base. Leadership obviously feels they don’t have enough information

to act, and it is your job to furnish it. I urge you not push for a veto.

I would however encourage each and every one of you to follow this new

legislation closely as it applies to your child, collect data on reports of the

incidents, ask questions in your school with respect to compliance, and take

pictures. We can prepare amendments to this new statute to provide

more substance and deal with the glitches, but we need to include

supporting data and details to present next session.

We did our

very best, and sincerely apologize if it was not good enough.

Goldstein

K. Goldstein

Goldstein Consulting, Inc

Education -

Health & Human Services - State & Local Government - Business

To: sList

From: ssmoyer@...

Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 01:09:45 +0000

Subject: Re: Restraint & Seclusion Bill - NO VETO PLEASE

Hello Binh,

Just to point out a few things.

" contrary to what you think, there was insufficient support of the single

subject bill for it to even make it through committee hearings. "

HB81 had 35 sponsors and co sponsors, over 25% of the House. I do not consider

that " insufficient support. " (If you would like I will explain what

happened offline)

" This is not rational, "

" Is that what you want? Really?. zero? "

" Do you have any idea how the political process works? "

These is just condescending and inappropriate.

" Did you give testimoney at any of the committee hearings?

" Next year, I suggest you get on board early....not late "

The " Mother " of this Bill, Phyllis Musumeci, has a child that was

inappropriately restrained and is still dealing with the issues from those

incidents. She has been responsible for R & S Bills the last 3 years in

Florida and is insturmental in the Federal Bill that has passed the US House.

She does not need to be told to " get on board early "

" The legislature only meets for 80 days a year "

I believe it's a 60 day session.

" You need senate and house sponsors. "

There are 120 House members and 40 Senators. Last year they had sponsors to

outlaw trailer hitch balls, I don't believe there will be a problem with

sponsors.

" Cut off your nose to spite your face "

" You are the adults here. Act like it. "

Exactly who is the child? If you don't like someone's politics, fight their

politics, but it is childish and unprofessional to attack the person. It is

especially inappropriate to attack parents that have had their children abused

at the hands of the school districts and who are so passionate about protecting

not only their own children, but all children.

Steve Moyer

wrote:

>

> Before you start contacting the Governor about killing this bill through a

veto, please consider the following:

>

> The bill is not a single subject bill. If the Governor vetos the

bill, the whole bill dies including provisions to run more stringent

background checks on people who work in group homes and courses

to prepare teachers to identify students with disabilities earlier. This

may not be your issues but they are issues of our community.

>

> If you are only interested in the R & S part of the bill, yes it was

watered down from the original stand alone version (single subject bill)Â

but contrary to what you think, there was insufficient support of the

single subject bill for it to even make it through committee hearings.Â

That is why, to save the Bill, it had to be merged into another bill .........

more subjects, more support ......If it had been kept as a stand alone bill,

you would have zero now.  Is that what you want? Really?.

zero?Â

>

> Tell that the father whose daughter was locked repeatedly in a utility

closet with no light on. MINE WAS!

>

> Tell that to someone whose child was restrained in a manner that their

breathing was restricted. COULD BE YOURS NEXT. Â

>

> If even one child is saved by these two measures alone....than that is

huge. Be as indignant as you like, but do not walk away from even

one single step towards protection and safety. This is not

rational.

>

> There were no laws on the books at all regarding restraint and

seclusion. Do you have any idea how the political process works? It is

extremely difficult to create new law from scratch. The status quo

always has more constitutents than change. That is why New Laws are

almost always piggybacked onto (or merged into) other bills that are amending

existing laws.  Garnering votes through the committee

process is difficult.  Did you give testimoney at any of the

committee hearings? I did. It is easy to criticize and complain

if you don't do the work. Next year, I suggest you get on board

early....not late........and certainly not after the final votes are

in.  The people who got the new law on the books are heroic.Â

Did they want more, alot more, yes. But would they want the Bill

killed? NO! There is now a place to pick it up again and go

forward.  If you wait to get it the way you want it  Â

you will get nothing at all.Â

>

> If the Governor signs this Bill into law, then next legislative session

you can work to get a stand alone Bill to amend the law. But you may have

to merge with other single subject bills to braoden the base and get it

through. But you will need to get involved from the start.......not at

the end....from day one........ to lobby for the amendments and you still

will not get them all through. This means heavy support .........writing

repeatedly to committee members, making phone calls........writing some more to

get the Bill moved through the councils and committees.  Every

day from the first reading of the Bill through final passage. That is

what it takes, like it or not.

>

> And one final comment:Â The legislature only meets for 80 days a

year. That's it. You kill this Bill ---- it is not as if it goes

anywhere to improve..........it dies. And then next year, if you manage

to get the bill killed, who do you think will sponsor it next year? You

need senate and house sponsors. And committee chairs who will schedule

the bill to be heard and members who will take the time to shepherd it through

and get the votes. Legislators will not be lining up to sponsor bills

and do the work just to wind up with a bill that is passed by both the house

and senate and then killed by a veto at the urging of the very people who

would benefit from the legislation ........have them turn on the Bill and on

them. You do realize don't you, legislator are besieged by groups who

want them to sponsor their bills. There are 100 times more bills left

behind than sponsored. Why would anyone pick this bill up again.Â

There are so many

> issues ........ this was your shot.......and now you want to blow

it.  Â

>

> So go ahead and urge a veto. Cut off your nose to spite your

face. Unfortunately, you may very well wind up injuring the very

childrern you so indignantely purport to protect. The next kid

locked in a closet. The next child restrained to the point that breathing

is restricted..........well, chalk one up for you..........

>

> Yes, Lights ON and Breathing are important. You should be urging

the Governor to sign this Bill. Our kids need their parents to move

forward on their behalf, not squack about it's not enough.

> Zero is not enough. This is something. A big

something. You are the adults here. Act like it. Your kids

are counting on you!

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Posted
Posted

I would like to thank everyone who put in long hours fighting

for safeguards for our children. But honestly I don't understand the reasoning

behind anyone who would support this bill. In many ways it will legalize abuse.

Reporting it will not stop it. Personally I would prefer the  message that

states the agencies and parents of autistic children do not support this

legislation then the message that states Florida has passed a bill that

prevents abuse in the schools. Truth and the message should be on the same side.

From:

sList [mailto:sList ] On Behalf

Of K. Goldstein

Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 2:30 PM

To: Karp

Subject: RE: Re: Restraint & Seclusion Bill - NO VETO

PLEASE

Importance: High

Parents

and Advocates,

I

have read a few emails and see that there are some who are

unhappy with the R/S legislation. I too am disappointed that

our original bill was replaced with a much weaker staff rendition. But

should you push for a veto?

It seems the

push of a veto is coming from those who do not realize how very difficult and

complex this legislative process really is, and how much effort was put forth

just to get this legislation sponsored and heard. Some think that no

legislation is better than what passed. I think that the

simple notification of restraint and seclusion that will now be required,

compared to it continuing on without parents' knowledge, is better than

nothing. Nothing is what we got the past three years, when we pushed for

it all. A different approach was taken this year, and some might

argue that nothing is better than what we got. I respectfully disagree.

I worked very

hard just to get a sponsor for this bill that would work it and Dorothy Hukill

did just that. Sylvia from the Advocacy Center, Phyllis and the Families

Against Restraint and Seclusion, and many other organizations worked very hard

to foster it's passage along the way. We were warned, 'one critical comment' in

committee and it would have been TP'd (temporarily postponed) indefinitely, in

other words dead. It is difficult to pass laws when agencies like DOE

who reports to the Governor's office and can ask for a veto, are

opposed to it, as were many school districts, teachers unions, behavior

analysts, etc.

Are there

holes in this bill? Absolutely. Did we get what we wanted? Absolutely not.

But just to get it on the first House committee agenda, we had to agree to

their version, with our good intentions to fix it along the way. All

legislation with such strong opposition is difficult to swallow the first year

because it looks nothing like what was originally proposed. There are

also many personalities involved. Some legislators do not want sweeping

legislation when there is strong opposition. And some were concerned with

existing law for other agencies such as DCF, DJJ and providers under section

393 which conflict. Many legislators often tend to take a few years to try

to get it right. For example, in our case, the sponsor in the Senate did

not want to include definitions of mechanical restraint. This would

have put some teeth in our bill. He has intentions of doing it next year after

he sees what kind of reporting is documented.

To us it's a

no brainer, and difficult to understand the whys and why nots. This

legislation will be improved in subsequent years, and we intend to follow

through on it. Next year, the opposition will not be as strong. There are

ways to do it in conforming language and amending other bills that open up this

statute, without waving red flags.

But is it

better than nothing? That's what I see you all debating.

I for one

know how much time, travel, expense, effort, pleading, blisters, and sweat,

went into this bill just to get it heard. Until you've walked a mile in

the shoes of those actually there in Tallahassee, during the very stressful

session while billions are being cut and everyone is complaining,

working in the trenches until the wee hours, counting on dedicated

lawmakers who don't necessarily make the final decision, and chasing

elusive ones who do, convincing legislative and agency staff, and pleading with

leadership, it is easy to criticize.

And with

all that preparation, work and advocacy, we only got to first

base. Leadership obviously feels they don’t have enough information

to act, and it is your job to furnish it. I urge you not push for a veto.

I would however encourage each and every one of you to follow this new

legislation closely as it applies to your child, collect data on reports of the

incidents, ask questions in your school with respect to compliance, and take

pictures. We can prepare amendments to this new statute to provide

more substance and deal with the glitches, but we need to include

supporting data and details to present next session.

We did our

very best, and sincerely apologize if it was not good enough.

Goldstein

K. Goldstein

Goldstein Consulting, Inc

Education -

Health & Human Services - State & Local Government - Business

To: sList

From: ssmoyer@...

Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 01:09:45 +0000

Subject: Re: Restraint & Seclusion Bill - NO VETO PLEASE

Hello Binh,

Just to point out a few things.

" contrary to what you think, there was insufficient support of the single

subject bill for it to even make it through committee hearings. "

HB81 had 35 sponsors and co sponsors, over 25% of the House. I do not consider

that " insufficient support. " (If you would like I will explain what

happened offline)

" This is not rational, "

" Is that what you want? Really?. zero? "

" Do you have any idea how the political process works? "

These is just condescending and inappropriate.

" Did you give testimoney at any of the committee hearings?

" Next year, I suggest you get on board early....not late "

The " Mother " of this Bill, Phyllis Musumeci, has a child that was

inappropriately restrained and is still dealing with the issues from those

incidents. She has been responsible for R & S Bills the last 3 years in

Florida and is insturmental in the Federal Bill that has passed the US House.

She does not need to be told to " get on board early "

" The legislature only meets for 80 days a year "

I believe it's a 60 day session.

" You need senate and house sponsors. "

There are 120 House members and 40 Senators. Last year they had sponsors to

outlaw trailer hitch balls, I don't believe there will be a problem with

sponsors.

" Cut off your nose to spite your face "

" You are the adults here. Act like it. "

Exactly who is the child? If you don't like someone's politics, fight their

politics, but it is childish and unprofessional to attack the person. It is

especially inappropriate to attack parents that have had their children abused

at the hands of the school districts and who are so passionate about protecting

not only their own children, but all children.

Steve Moyer

wrote:

>

> Before you start contacting the Governor about killing this bill through a

veto, please consider the following:

>

> The bill is not a single subject bill. If the Governor vetos the

bill, the whole bill dies including provisions to run more stringent

background checks on people who work in group homes and courses

to prepare teachers to identify students with disabilities earlier. This

may not be your issues but they are issues of our community.

>

> If you are only interested in the R & S part of the bill, yes it was

watered down from the original stand alone version (single subject bill)Â

but contrary to what you think, there was insufficient support of the

single subject bill for it to even make it through committee hearings.Â

That is why, to save the Bill, it had to be merged into another bill .........

more subjects, more support ......If it had been kept as a stand alone bill,

you would have zero now.  Is that what you want? Really?.

zero?Â

>

> Tell that the father whose daughter was locked repeatedly in a utility

closet with no light on. MINE WAS!

>

> Tell that to someone whose child was restrained in a manner that their

breathing was restricted. COULD BE YOURS NEXT. Â

>

> If even one child is saved by these two measures alone....than that is

huge. Be as indignant as you like, but do not walk away from even

one single step towards protection and safety. This is not

rational.

>

> There were no laws on the books at all regarding restraint and

seclusion. Do you have any idea how the political process works? It is

extremely difficult to create new law from scratch. The status quo

always has more constitutents than change. That is why New Laws are

almost always piggybacked onto (or merged into) other bills that are amending

existing laws.  Garnering votes through the committee

process is difficult.  Did you give testimoney at any of the

committee hearings? I did. It is easy to criticize and complain

if you don't do the work. Next year, I suggest you get on board

early....not late........and certainly not after the final votes are

in.  The people who got the new law on the books are heroic.Â

Did they want more, alot more, yes. But would they want the Bill

killed? NO! There is now a place to pick it up again and go

forward.  If you wait to get it the way you want it  Â

you will get nothing at all.Â

>

> If the Governor signs this Bill into law, then next legislative session

you can work to get a stand alone Bill to amend the law. But you may have

to merge with other single subject bills to braoden the base and get it

through. But you will need to get involved from the start.......not at

the end....from day one........ to lobby for the amendments and you still

will not get them all through. This means heavy support .........writing

repeatedly to committee members, making phone calls........writing some more to

get the Bill moved through the councils and committees.  Every

day from the first reading of the Bill through final passage. That is

what it takes, like it or not.

>

> And one final comment:Â The legislature only meets for 80 days a

year. That's it. You kill this Bill ---- it is not as if it goes

anywhere to improve..........it dies. And then next year, if you manage

to get the bill killed, who do you think will sponsor it next year? You

need senate and house sponsors. And committee chairs who will schedule

the bill to be heard and members who will take the time to shepherd it through

and get the votes. Legislators will not be lining up to sponsor bills

and do the work just to wind up with a bill that is passed by both the house

and senate and then killed by a veto at the urging of the very people who

would benefit from the legislation ........have them turn on the Bill and on

them. You do realize don't you, legislator are besieged by groups who

want them to sponsor their bills. There are 100 times more bills left

behind than sponsored. Why would anyone pick this bill up again.Â

There are so many

> issues ........ this was your shot.......and now you want to blow

it.  Â

>

> So go ahead and urge a veto. Cut off your nose to spite your

face. Unfortunately, you may very well wind up injuring the very

childrern you so indignantely purport to protect. The next kid

locked in a closet. The next child restrained to the point that breathing

is restricted..........well, chalk one up for you..........

>

> Yes, Lights ON and Breathing are important. You should be urging

the Governor to sign this Bill. Our kids need their parents to move

forward on their behalf, not squack about it's not enough.

> Zero is not enough. This is something. A big

something. You are the adults here. Act like it. Your kids

are counting on you!

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Posted
Posted

Hi .

You know I have nothing but respect for you, including the time before autism even came into my life.

It's true that I did 100% of nothing towards the passing of the bill, and I admit that I didn't even know that it was being fought for. Quite honestly, my attention was first drawn to it when I read the grumblings about it.

I can totally relate and sincerely understand what it must feel like to be that person who is expending their time, money, emotions-----basically their blood, sweat, & tears----on a bill that is so absolutely necessary, only to have a person who knows and has done NOTHING to sit back & point fingers at it & say "NO GOOD". That would burn me up too.

But what must be some kind of phenomena--strangely, no matter what side of the bill any of us are on, we ALL want the end result, for our kids to be treated humanely and respectfully, while also giving the same regard to the safety of all others in the school setting.

I am of the opinion that it wouldn't be a bad idea for those who emerge from the hard-fought trenches to genuinely want to seek the opinion of an "outsider" (not involved with the bill), yet still an "insider" (with the same genuine intentions for our children) with regard to the bill & its final language.

Personally, I feel that since this bill is NOT my baby, I may be looking at it from a very different angle than someone whose baby this bill is.

(I mean no disrespect at all, and in fact I feel MUCH respect towards you and those who fought for the bill. I also don't intend to sound apathetic towards the bill & its fight, because I do care & am grateful for those who did fight so hard. My child is not even old enough for Kindergarten yet, I admittedly am not politically-inclined, and I simply did not personally hear or read about the bill until a week or two ago. Despite me not being a part of the bill push, I still feel that I can render a debatable, and hopefully respectable, opinion on it)

It IS unfortunate that the good part of the bill (the training & education part--NOT related to R & S) is wrapped up with the R & S part of the bill.

It IS too bad that the bill (as I understand it) must be 100% accepted or 100% denied.

I totally get what you are saying about the GOOD of getting SOMETHING of R & S in the bill so that there is a foundation with which to work with next year.

Notably, however, perhaps that "something" should have stopped at the "notification" section. The "notification" part is good, it is a foundation to work from, and the expressed inclusion of it does not cause an implication of anything else that might be harmful.

Before the bill, I suppose that R & S "rules" existed only in the decency and humaneness of the school employee administering the R. & /or S. Perhaps this person vaguely had an idea of where the line should be drawn in terms of what was legal or what seemed right or wrong. (whether he/she crossed their own imposed line is another story)

However, after the bill, there now exists a precise line between allowable and not allowable. Expressly In the not-allowable corner is the R & S which restricts breath and leaves a student in the dark. in the "allowable" corner implicitly lies all other possible forms of R & S which do not restrict breath, or leave student in the dark, but may otherwise be horrific.

The school employee now doesn't have to draw their own line, they now know that there's only two things that they can't do. The bill's SILENCE to restrictions on all other R & S actions may very well be a legally protected doorway right to them.

Since there seems to be such a divde among us who seemingly want the same end result, we've got to listen to each others points so that we can totally see & understand each side. Are we crossing our fingers and hoping that the school employee is going to use better judgement than what the law allows over the next year? If we are comfortable with being that trusting, then why the hard fight for the law anyway? And SHOULD we be that trusting given that we actually have to write into LAW that the light should be on and the child's breath should not be restricted!

If my logic or reasoning or legal understanding is off with regard to my "expressed restrictions implicitly legalizes that which is not expressly restricted" thinking, then please let me know. I may be missing something altogether.

Most importantly, is it at all possible to KEEP the notification part of the bill but drop any other restrictions for the reasons stated above? (I do apologize for those with children who WERE left in the dark and whose breath WAS restricted. I realize that these may be the MOSt important parts of the bill for you. However, when thinking as objectively as possible, is it flawed reasoning to expect that the doorway to all other R & S except those two can now be flung open, and worse, legally protected?)

Sincerely,

Diane

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Posted
Posted

Hi .

You know I have nothing but respect for you, including the time before autism even came into my life.

It's true that I did 100% of nothing towards the passing of the bill, and I admit that I didn't even know that it was being fought for. Quite honestly, my attention was first drawn to it when I read the grumblings about it.

I can totally relate and sincerely understand what it must feel like to be that person who is expending their time, money, emotions-----basically their blood, sweat, & tears----on a bill that is so absolutely necessary, only to have a person who knows and has done NOTHING to sit back & point fingers at it & say "NO GOOD". That would burn me up too.

But what must be some kind of phenomena--strangely, no matter what side of the bill any of us are on, we ALL want the end result, for our kids to be treated humanely and respectfully, while also giving the same regard to the safety of all others in the school setting.

I am of the opinion that it wouldn't be a bad idea for those who emerge from the hard-fought trenches to genuinely want to seek the opinion of an "outsider" (not involved with the bill), yet still an "insider" (with the same genuine intentions for our children) with regard to the bill & its final language.

Personally, I feel that since this bill is NOT my baby, I may be looking at it from a very different angle than someone whose baby this bill is.

(I mean no disrespect at all, and in fact I feel MUCH respect towards you and those who fought for the bill. I also don't intend to sound apathetic towards the bill & its fight, because I do care & am grateful for those who did fight so hard. My child is not even old enough for Kindergarten yet, I admittedly am not politically-inclined, and I simply did not personally hear or read about the bill until a week or two ago. Despite me not being a part of the bill push, I still feel that I can render a debatable, and hopefully respectable, opinion on it)

It IS unfortunate that the good part of the bill (the training & education part--NOT related to R & S) is wrapped up with the R & S part of the bill.

It IS too bad that the bill (as I understand it) must be 100% accepted or 100% denied.

I totally get what you are saying about the GOOD of getting SOMETHING of R & S in the bill so that there is a foundation with which to work with next year.

Notably, however, perhaps that "something" should have stopped at the "notification" section. The "notification" part is good, it is a foundation to work from, and the expressed inclusion of it does not cause an implication of anything else that might be harmful.

Before the bill, I suppose that R & S "rules" existed only in the decency and humaneness of the school employee administering the R. & /or S. Perhaps this person vaguely had an idea of where the line should be drawn in terms of what was legal or what seemed right or wrong. (whether he/she crossed their own imposed line is another story)

However, after the bill, there now exists a precise line between allowable and not allowable. Expressly In the not-allowable corner is the R & S which restricts breath and leaves a student in the dark. in the "allowable" corner implicitly lies all other possible forms of R & S which do not restrict breath, or leave student in the dark, but may otherwise be horrific.

The school employee now doesn't have to draw their own line, they now know that there's only two things that they can't do. The bill's SILENCE to restrictions on all other R & S actions may very well be a legally protected doorway right to them.

Since there seems to be such a divde among us who seemingly want the same end result, we've got to listen to each others points so that we can totally see & understand each side. Are we crossing our fingers and hoping that the school employee is going to use better judgement than what the law allows over the next year? If we are comfortable with being that trusting, then why the hard fight for the law anyway? And SHOULD we be that trusting given that we actually have to write into LAW that the light should be on and the child's breath should not be restricted!

If my logic or reasoning or legal understanding is off with regard to my "expressed restrictions implicitly legalizes that which is not expressly restricted" thinking, then please let me know. I may be missing something altogether.

Most importantly, is it at all possible to KEEP the notification part of the bill but drop any other restrictions for the reasons stated above? (I do apologize for those with children who WERE left in the dark and whose breath WAS restricted. I realize that these may be the MOSt important parts of the bill for you. However, when thinking as objectively as possible, is it flawed reasoning to expect that the doorway to all other R & S except those two can now be flung open, and worse, legally protected?)

Sincerely,

Diane

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Posted

Hi .

You know I have nothing but respect for you, including the time before autism even came into my life.

It's true that I did 100% of nothing towards the passing of the bill, and I admit that I didn't even know that it was being fought for. Quite honestly, my attention was first drawn to it when I read the grumblings about it.

I can totally relate and sincerely understand what it must feel like to be that person who is expending their time, money, emotions-----basically their blood, sweat, & tears----on a bill that is so absolutely necessary, only to have a person who knows and has done NOTHING to sit back & point fingers at it & say "NO GOOD". That would burn me up too.

But what must be some kind of phenomena--strangely, no matter what side of the bill any of us are on, we ALL want the end result, for our kids to be treated humanely and respectfully, while also giving the same regard to the safety of all others in the school setting.

I am of the opinion that it wouldn't be a bad idea for those who emerge from the hard-fought trenches to genuinely want to seek the opinion of an "outsider" (not involved with the bill), yet still an "insider" (with the same genuine intentions for our children) with regard to the bill & its final language.

Personally, I feel that since this bill is NOT my baby, I may be looking at it from a very different angle than someone whose baby this bill is.

(I mean no disrespect at all, and in fact I feel MUCH respect towards you and those who fought for the bill. I also don't intend to sound apathetic towards the bill & its fight, because I do care & am grateful for those who did fight so hard. My child is not even old enough for Kindergarten yet, I admittedly am not politically-inclined, and I simply did not personally hear or read about the bill until a week or two ago. Despite me not being a part of the bill push, I still feel that I can render a debatable, and hopefully respectable, opinion on it)

It IS unfortunate that the good part of the bill (the training & education part--NOT related to R & S) is wrapped up with the R & S part of the bill.

It IS too bad that the bill (as I understand it) must be 100% accepted or 100% denied.

I totally get what you are saying about the GOOD of getting SOMETHING of R & S in the bill so that there is a foundation with which to work with next year.

Notably, however, perhaps that "something" should have stopped at the "notification" section. The "notification" part is good, it is a foundation to work from, and the expressed inclusion of it does not cause an implication of anything else that might be harmful.

Before the bill, I suppose that R & S "rules" existed only in the decency and humaneness of the school employee administering the R. & /or S. Perhaps this person vaguely had an idea of where the line should be drawn in terms of what was legal or what seemed right or wrong. (whether he/she crossed their own imposed line is another story)

However, after the bill, there now exists a precise line between allowable and not allowable. Expressly In the not-allowable corner is the R & S which restricts breath and leaves a student in the dark. in the "allowable" corner implicitly lies all other possible forms of R & S which do not restrict breath, or leave student in the dark, but may otherwise be horrific.

The school employee now doesn't have to draw their own line, they now know that there's only two things that they can't do. The bill's SILENCE to restrictions on all other R & S actions may very well be a legally protected doorway right to them.

Since there seems to be such a divde among us who seemingly want the same end result, we've got to listen to each others points so that we can totally see & understand each side. Are we crossing our fingers and hoping that the school employee is going to use better judgement than what the law allows over the next year? If we are comfortable with being that trusting, then why the hard fight for the law anyway? And SHOULD we be that trusting given that we actually have to write into LAW that the light should be on and the child's breath should not be restricted!

If my logic or reasoning or legal understanding is off with regard to my "expressed restrictions implicitly legalizes that which is not expressly restricted" thinking, then please let me know. I may be missing something altogether.

Most importantly, is it at all possible to KEEP the notification part of the bill but drop any other restrictions for the reasons stated above? (I do apologize for those with children who WERE left in the dark and whose breath WAS restricted. I realize that these may be the MOSt important parts of the bill for you. However, when thinking as objectively as possible, is it flawed reasoning to expect that the doorway to all other R & S except those two can now be flung open, and worse, legally protected?)

Sincerely,

Diane

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Posted

,

I have read your note "Do not ask for a veto of the Restraint and Seclusion Bill" and I believe we all feel the same, disappointed. That being said, I havent heard any advocates including myself blaming anyone . We are all aware of the work that went into this. There isnt one advocate that actually thought HB81 would stay intact but we never thought all the safety precautions for our children would be removed from the bill. Our disappointment is with those who just dont get it and changed the bill so drastically and without any parent involvement. Parents & children are in the trenches everyday. I am an advocate because my child was abused by restraints.I know first hand why we need Laws to protect our children. It's been three years since my son was abused and he still wakes up screaming in the middle of the night. He still cant go into the bathroom in his own home alone. He is forever changed but he is alive as you know there are some children that didnt make it home.

When my son was abused no one would help me. I went online & found Phyllis, she took me under her wing & showed me the ropes. I am a part of Florida Families Against Restraint and Seclusion & have been for 3 years. I do see people giving their opinion who werent really involved in pushing the Bill forward but maybe they will jump in & help next round. We need people to feel comfortable speaking out, we need to get the truth out in the open. To tell parents their children are now safe because of this Bill & act like it is a Great thing is just not true. The way you represented the Bill in this note is accurate, you then expressed your opinion of the Bill, which is your right. That way it is up to the individual to decide if "something is better then nothing" because that is what we have here. Among those speaking out I also see a lot of organizations taking credit for all the parents hard work. The same organizations who slammed the door in our face's for years. Only now that R & S is getting the attention it deserves, have they stepped up only to start taking credit for our work or pretending that they helped us. You seem to be taking the parents view of the Bill personal, it's not about us, its about the children. I really didnt see the children mentioned in your note.

As you know there are a lot of holes in this Bill and the parents of abused children know first hand how schools work. We have been in the trenches, through the cover ups, the lies, the changed documents and the retaliation against ourselves and our children. We know that schools are not going to tell on themselves. They will continue to hide things or most of the reporting will blame the child. They will embellish & exaggerate the whole incident even though they more then likely caused the incident by escalating or even provoking the child. My child was provoked & I have documentation that proves that, but no one asked me for any documentation except Sylvia, late in the hearings. She asked for my DCF report which had verified findings of abuse.

Im assuming when you wrote "take pictures" (which most of us are already doing) you are aware of what this next year holds for disabled (mostly autistic)children & their parents. What scares me the most is that there is no guarantee that we will be allowed to go back to this Bill next year or the year after and add the safety language that was taken out. We gave our Florida legislators pleanty of pictures, videos and parent testimonals so why does Sen. Gardiner feel he has to wait until he see's the data from the school districts to make any new additions to the bill in the future? Are we talking about the same school districts that are abusing our children and then trying to hide it? Whether this Bill becomes Law or is Vetoed I am scared for the children next school year. Im sure the Bill will become Law, I seriously doubt the Governor will veto the Bill. Our children seem to be irrelavent to most politicians.

You say leadership feels they dont have enough information to act. Have they not read the Florida family testimonials, GAO report, NDRN report, ACLU report, COPAA report etc... or the already well documented cases of misuse and illegal use of restraint and/or seclusion. I was told parents were needed for a press conference in Tallahassee for Rep. Hukill. I said I would go & was told I would hear from someone. I finally heard from someone but it was either too late or the press conference was already over. This person said they would rather wait & use me for the hearings. That never happened either, instead we had two men & only one had a child who was abused by R & S. A mother should have been testifying also. My son wanted to talk to legislators & is very capable of doing so. They need to see that our children are just like theirs.

I for one know how much blood, sweat, expense, effort, pleading & tears go into fighting for services and for protection of our disabled children. We are just parents, parents with enough courage to stand up and say this is wrong. We are the ones who got these stories in the news and newspapers all over the nation. Parents feel the same "Until you've walked a mile in the shoes of a parent with a special needs child, during the very stressful school year, while teachers, school staff & districts are covering up, allowing your child to be abused and there is nothing you can do about it because there are no Laws to protect them.

I dont know you, I have only met you once but you are highly respected amongst the Advocate community. If I havent said so, Thank you for all your hard work & taking on the challenge of getting a Bill passed to protect our children. I dont know what is right or wrong anymore in reference to this Bill. I do know our children deserve so much more and it was nice to read you have the same feelings. Most parents have no idea how the political arena works, but after reading your note I have a better understanding of what it takes. One side I didnt see in your note was the side of the disabled children, that is why we are here, because in the end they will pay the price of being abused while people that are passing the laws look the other way. We appreciate you -we know what you have done to help us but please don't try to silence us by insinuating that going against the bill somehow means we are rude or unappreciative, We need everyone to speak up and not feel as if they will be attacked , bullied or shut out like some parents have already been made to feel. The agencies are meant to represent us not the other way around. Remember, we are not criticizing you -we are expressing our discontent with legislators and the bill.

Sincerely,

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Posted

,

I have read your note "Do not ask for a veto of the Restraint and Seclusion Bill" and I believe we all feel the same, disappointed. That being said, I havent heard any advocates including myself blaming anyone . We are all aware of the work that went into this. There isnt one advocate that actually thought HB81 would stay intact but we never thought all the safety precautions for our children would be removed from the bill. Our disappointment is with those who just dont get it and changed the bill so drastically and without any parent involvement. Parents & children are in the trenches everyday. I am an advocate because my child was abused by restraints.I know first hand why we need Laws to protect our children. It's been three years since my son was abused and he still wakes up screaming in the middle of the night. He still cant go into the bathroom in his own home alone. He is forever changed but he is alive as you know there are some children that didnt make it home.

When my son was abused no one would help me. I went online & found Phyllis, she took me under her wing & showed me the ropes. I am a part of Florida Families Against Restraint and Seclusion & have been for 3 years. I do see people giving their opinion who werent really involved in pushing the Bill forward but maybe they will jump in & help next round. We need people to feel comfortable speaking out, we need to get the truth out in the open. To tell parents their children are now safe because of this Bill & act like it is a Great thing is just not true. The way you represented the Bill in this note is accurate, you then expressed your opinion of the Bill, which is your right. That way it is up to the individual to decide if "something is better then nothing" because that is what we have here. Among those speaking out I also see a lot of organizations taking credit for all the parents hard work. The same organizations who slammed the door in our face's for years. Only now that R & S is getting the attention it deserves, have they stepped up only to start taking credit for our work or pretending that they helped us. You seem to be taking the parents view of the Bill personal, it's not about us, its about the children. I really didnt see the children mentioned in your note.

As you know there are a lot of holes in this Bill and the parents of abused children know first hand how schools work. We have been in the trenches, through the cover ups, the lies, the changed documents and the retaliation against ourselves and our children. We know that schools are not going to tell on themselves. They will continue to hide things or most of the reporting will blame the child. They will embellish & exaggerate the whole incident even though they more then likely caused the incident by escalating or even provoking the child. My child was provoked & I have documentation that proves that, but no one asked me for any documentation except Sylvia, late in the hearings. She asked for my DCF report which had verified findings of abuse.

Im assuming when you wrote "take pictures" (which most of us are already doing) you are aware of what this next year holds for disabled (mostly autistic)children & their parents. What scares me the most is that there is no guarantee that we will be allowed to go back to this Bill next year or the year after and add the safety language that was taken out. We gave our Florida legislators pleanty of pictures, videos and parent testimonals so why does Sen. Gardiner feel he has to wait until he see's the data from the school districts to make any new additions to the bill in the future? Are we talking about the same school districts that are abusing our children and then trying to hide it? Whether this Bill becomes Law or is Vetoed I am scared for the children next school year. Im sure the Bill will become Law, I seriously doubt the Governor will veto the Bill. Our children seem to be irrelavent to most politicians.

You say leadership feels they dont have enough information to act. Have they not read the Florida family testimonials, GAO report, NDRN report, ACLU report, COPAA report etc... or the already well documented cases of misuse and illegal use of restraint and/or seclusion. I was told parents were needed for a press conference in Tallahassee for Rep. Hukill. I said I would go & was told I would hear from someone. I finally heard from someone but it was either too late or the press conference was already over. This person said they would rather wait & use me for the hearings. That never happened either, instead we had two men & only one had a child who was abused by R & S. A mother should have been testifying also. My son wanted to talk to legislators & is very capable of doing so. They need to see that our children are just like theirs.

I for one know how much blood, sweat, expense, effort, pleading & tears go into fighting for services and for protection of our disabled children. We are just parents, parents with enough courage to stand up and say this is wrong. We are the ones who got these stories in the news and newspapers all over the nation. Parents feel the same "Until you've walked a mile in the shoes of a parent with a special needs child, during the very stressful school year, while teachers, school staff & districts are covering up, allowing your child to be abused and there is nothing you can do about it because there are no Laws to protect them.

I dont know you, I have only met you once but you are highly respected amongst the Advocate community. If I havent said so, Thank you for all your hard work & taking on the challenge of getting a Bill passed to protect our children. I dont know what is right or wrong anymore in reference to this Bill. I do know our children deserve so much more and it was nice to read you have the same feelings. Most parents have no idea how the political arena works, but after reading your note I have a better understanding of what it takes. One side I didnt see in your note was the side of the disabled children, that is why we are here, because in the end they will pay the price of being abused while people that are passing the laws look the other way. We appreciate you -we know what you have done to help us but please don't try to silence us by insinuating that going against the bill somehow means we are rude or unappreciative, We need everyone to speak up and not feel as if they will be attacked , bullied or shut out like some parents have already been made to feel. The agencies are meant to represent us not the other way around. Remember, we are not criticizing you -we are expressing our discontent with legislators and the bill.

Sincerely,

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Posted
Posted

,

I have read your note "Do not ask for a veto of the Restraint and Seclusion Bill" and I believe we all feel the same, disappointed. That being said, I havent heard any advocates including myself blaming anyone . We are all aware of the work that went into this. There isnt one advocate that actually thought HB81 would stay intact but we never thought all the safety precautions for our children would be removed from the bill. Our disappointment is with those who just dont get it and changed the bill so drastically and without any parent involvement. Parents & children are in the trenches everyday. I am an advocate because my child was abused by restraints.I know first hand why we need Laws to protect our children. It's been three years since my son was abused and he still wakes up screaming in the middle of the night. He still cant go into the bathroom in his own home alone. He is forever changed but he is alive as you know there are some children that didnt make it home.

When my son was abused no one would help me. I went online & found Phyllis, she took me under her wing & showed me the ropes. I am a part of Florida Families Against Restraint and Seclusion & have been for 3 years. I do see people giving their opinion who werent really involved in pushing the Bill forward but maybe they will jump in & help next round. We need people to feel comfortable speaking out, we need to get the truth out in the open. To tell parents their children are now safe because of this Bill & act like it is a Great thing is just not true. The way you represented the Bill in this note is accurate, you then expressed your opinion of the Bill, which is your right. That way it is up to the individual to decide if "something is better then nothing" because that is what we have here. Among those speaking out I also see a lot of organizations taking credit for all the parents hard work. The same organizations who slammed the door in our face's for years. Only now that R & S is getting the attention it deserves, have they stepped up only to start taking credit for our work or pretending that they helped us. You seem to be taking the parents view of the Bill personal, it's not about us, its about the children. I really didnt see the children mentioned in your note.

As you know there are a lot of holes in this Bill and the parents of abused children know first hand how schools work. We have been in the trenches, through the cover ups, the lies, the changed documents and the retaliation against ourselves and our children. We know that schools are not going to tell on themselves. They will continue to hide things or most of the reporting will blame the child. They will embellish & exaggerate the whole incident even though they more then likely caused the incident by escalating or even provoking the child. My child was provoked & I have documentation that proves that, but no one asked me for any documentation except Sylvia, late in the hearings. She asked for my DCF report which had verified findings of abuse.

Im assuming when you wrote "take pictures" (which most of us are already doing) you are aware of what this next year holds for disabled (mostly autistic)children & their parents. What scares me the most is that there is no guarantee that we will be allowed to go back to this Bill next year or the year after and add the safety language that was taken out. We gave our Florida legislators pleanty of pictures, videos and parent testimonals so why does Sen. Gardiner feel he has to wait until he see's the data from the school districts to make any new additions to the bill in the future? Are we talking about the same school districts that are abusing our children and then trying to hide it? Whether this Bill becomes Law or is Vetoed I am scared for the children next school year. Im sure the Bill will become Law, I seriously doubt the Governor will veto the Bill. Our children seem to be irrelavent to most politicians.

You say leadership feels they dont have enough information to act. Have they not read the Florida family testimonials, GAO report, NDRN report, ACLU report, COPAA report etc... or the already well documented cases of misuse and illegal use of restraint and/or seclusion. I was told parents were needed for a press conference in Tallahassee for Rep. Hukill. I said I would go & was told I would hear from someone. I finally heard from someone but it was either too late or the press conference was already over. This person said they would rather wait & use me for the hearings. That never happened either, instead we had two men & only one had a child who was abused by R & S. A mother should have been testifying also. My son wanted to talk to legislators & is very capable of doing so. They need to see that our children are just like theirs.

I for one know how much blood, sweat, expense, effort, pleading & tears go into fighting for services and for protection of our disabled children. We are just parents, parents with enough courage to stand up and say this is wrong. We are the ones who got these stories in the news and newspapers all over the nation. Parents feel the same "Until you've walked a mile in the shoes of a parent with a special needs child, during the very stressful school year, while teachers, school staff & districts are covering up, allowing your child to be abused and there is nothing you can do about it because there are no Laws to protect them.

I dont know you, I have only met you once but you are highly respected amongst the Advocate community. If I havent said so, Thank you for all your hard work & taking on the challenge of getting a Bill passed to protect our children. I dont know what is right or wrong anymore in reference to this Bill. I do know our children deserve so much more and it was nice to read you have the same feelings. Most parents have no idea how the political arena works, but after reading your note I have a better understanding of what it takes. One side I didnt see in your note was the side of the disabled children, that is why we are here, because in the end they will pay the price of being abused while people that are passing the laws look the other way. We appreciate you -we know what you have done to help us but please don't try to silence us by insinuating that going against the bill somehow means we are rude or unappreciative, We need everyone to speak up and not feel as if they will be attacked , bullied or shut out like some parents have already been made to feel. The agencies are meant to represent us not the other way around. Remember, we are not criticizing you -we are expressing our discontent with legislators and the bill.

Sincerely,

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Posted
Posted

This was a great message. I am confused about what stance to take on this. I was originally all for veto and then I began to read some posts on here advising otherwise and offering some good reasons. I know that this bill did not only cover R and S and that alone may be a good reason to not ask for a veto. I don’t know if the governor were to veto it, what good would that do aside of sending the message that we don’t approve of the flimsy bill? But how else should we express, those of us that feel this way, that we are very unhappy with the outcome? Yes having the lights on and being informed are something, but compared to the heaviness of this issue its like an umbrella in a tsunami. I don’t know what to think about this now and can only agree that we who feel strongly on R and S need to stick together and give each other room to be heard and to have differing opinions while not letting those tear us apart and weaken the strength that comes with unity.

From:

Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 12:36 PM

To: sList

Subject: Re: Restraint & Seclusion Bill - NO VETO PLEASE

,

I have read your note "Do not ask for a veto of the Restraint and Seclusion Bill" and I believe we all feel the same, disappointed. That being said, I havent heard any advocates including myself blaming anyone . We are all aware of the work that went into this. There isnt one advocate that actually thought HB81 would stay intact but we never thought all the safety precautions for our children would be removed from the bill. Our disappointment is with those who just dont get it and changed the bill so drastically and without any parent involvement. Parents & children are in the trenches everyday. I am an advocate because my child was abused by restraints.I know first hand why we need Laws to protect our children. It's been three years since my son was abused and he still wakes up screaming in the middle of the night. He still cant go into the bathroom in his own home alone. He is forever changed but he is alive as you know there are some children that didnt make it home.

When my son was abused no one would help me. I went online & found Phyllis, she took me under her wing & showed me the ropes. I am a part of Florida Families Against Restraint and Seclusion & have been for 3 years. I do see people giving their opinion who werent really involved in pushing the Bill forward but maybe they will jump in & help next round. We need people to feel comfortable speaking out, we need to get the truth out in the open. To tell parents their children are now safe because of this Bill & act like it is a Great thing is just not true. The way you represented the Bill in this note is accurate, you then expressed your opinion of the Bill, which is your right. That way it is up to the individual to decide if "something is better then nothing" because that is what we have here. Among those speaking out I also see a lot of organizations taking credit for all the parents hard work. The same organizations who slammed the door in our face's for years. Only now that R & S is getting the attention it deserves, have they stepped up only to start taking credit for our work or pretending that they helped us. You seem to be taking the parents view of the Bill personal, it's not about us, its about the children. I really didnt see the children mentioned in your note.

As you know there are a lot of holes in this Bill and the parents of abused children know first hand how schools work. We have been in the trenches, through the cover ups, the lies, the changed documents and the retaliation against ourselves and our children. We know that schools are not going to tell on themselves. They will continue to hide things or most of the reporting will blame the child. They will embellish & exaggerate the whole incident even though they more then likely caused the incident by escalating or even provoking the child. My child was provoked & I have documentation that proves that, but no one asked me for any documentation except Sylvia, late in the hearings. She asked for my DCF report which had verified findings of abuse.

Im assuming when you wrote "take pictures" (which most of us are already doing) you are aware of what this next year holds for disabled (mostly autistic)children & their parents. What scares me the most is that there is no guarantee that we will be allowed to go back to this Bill next year or the year after and add the safety language that was taken out. We gave our Florida legislators pleanty of pictures, videos and parent testimonals so why does Sen. Gardiner feel he has to wait until he see's the data from the school districts to make any new additions to the bill in the future? Are we talking about the same school districts that are abusing our children and then trying to hide it? Whether this Bill becomes Law or is Vetoed I am scared for the children next school year. Im sure the Bill will become Law, I seriously doubt the Governor will veto the Bill. Our children seem to be irrelavent to most politicians.

You say leadership feels they dont have enough information to act. Have they not read the Florida family testimonials, GAO report, NDRN report, ACLU report, COPAA report etc... or the already well documented cases of misuse and illegal use of restraint and/or seclusion. I was told parents were needed for a press conference in Tallahassee for Rep. Hukill. I said I would go & was told I would hear from someone. I finally heard from someone but it was either too late or the press conference was already over. This person said they would rather wait & use me for the hearings. That never happened either, instead we had two men & only one had a child who was abused by R & S. A mother should have been testifying also. My son wanted to talk to legislators & is very capable of doing so. They need to see that our children are just like theirs.

I for one know how much blood, sweat, expense, effort, pleading & tears go into fighting for services and for protection of our disabled children. We are just parents, parents with enough courage to stand up and say this is wrong. We are the ones who got these stories in the news and newspapers all over the nation. Parents feel the same "Until you've walked a mile in the shoes of a parent with a special needs child, during the very stressful school year, while teachers, school staff & districts are covering up, allowing your child to be abused and there is nothing you can do about it because there are no Laws to protect them.

I dont know you, I have only met you once but you are highly respected amongst the Advocate community. If I havent said so, Thank you for all your hard work & taking on the challenge of getting a Bill passed to protect our children. I dont know what is right or wrong anymore in reference to this Bill. I do know our children deserve so much more and it was nice to read you have the same feelings. Most parents have no idea how the political arena works, but after reading your note I have a better understanding of what it takes. One side I didnt see in your note was the side of the disabled children, that is why we are here, because in the end they will pay the price of being abused while people that are passing the laws look the other way. We appreciate you -we know what you have done to help us but please don't try to silence us by insinuating that going against the bill somehow means we are rude or unappreciative, We need everyone to speak up and not feel as if they will be attacked , bullied or shut out like some parents have already been made to feel. The agencies are meant to represent us not the other way around. Remember, we are not criticizing you -we are expressing our discontent with legislators and the bill.

Sincerely,

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Posted
Posted

This was a great message. I am confused about what stance to take on this. I was originally all for veto and then I began to read some posts on here advising otherwise and offering some good reasons. I know that this bill did not only cover R and S and that alone may be a good reason to not ask for a veto. I don’t know if the governor were to veto it, what good would that do aside of sending the message that we don’t approve of the flimsy bill? But how else should we express, those of us that feel this way, that we are very unhappy with the outcome? Yes having the lights on and being informed are something, but compared to the heaviness of this issue its like an umbrella in a tsunami. I don’t know what to think about this now and can only agree that we who feel strongly on R and S need to stick together and give each other room to be heard and to have differing opinions while not letting those tear us apart and weaken the strength that comes with unity.

From:

Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 12:36 PM

To: sList

Subject: Re: Restraint & Seclusion Bill - NO VETO PLEASE

,

I have read your note "Do not ask for a veto of the Restraint and Seclusion Bill" and I believe we all feel the same, disappointed. That being said, I havent heard any advocates including myself blaming anyone . We are all aware of the work that went into this. There isnt one advocate that actually thought HB81 would stay intact but we never thought all the safety precautions for our children would be removed from the bill. Our disappointment is with those who just dont get it and changed the bill so drastically and without any parent involvement. Parents & children are in the trenches everyday. I am an advocate because my child was abused by restraints.I know first hand why we need Laws to protect our children. It's been three years since my son was abused and he still wakes up screaming in the middle of the night. He still cant go into the bathroom in his own home alone. He is forever changed but he is alive as you know there are some children that didnt make it home.

When my son was abused no one would help me. I went online & found Phyllis, she took me under her wing & showed me the ropes. I am a part of Florida Families Against Restraint and Seclusion & have been for 3 years. I do see people giving their opinion who werent really involved in pushing the Bill forward but maybe they will jump in & help next round. We need people to feel comfortable speaking out, we need to get the truth out in the open. To tell parents their children are now safe because of this Bill & act like it is a Great thing is just not true. The way you represented the Bill in this note is accurate, you then expressed your opinion of the Bill, which is your right. That way it is up to the individual to decide if "something is better then nothing" because that is what we have here. Among those speaking out I also see a lot of organizations taking credit for all the parents hard work. The same organizations who slammed the door in our face's for years. Only now that R & S is getting the attention it deserves, have they stepped up only to start taking credit for our work or pretending that they helped us. You seem to be taking the parents view of the Bill personal, it's not about us, its about the children. I really didnt see the children mentioned in your note.

As you know there are a lot of holes in this Bill and the parents of abused children know first hand how schools work. We have been in the trenches, through the cover ups, the lies, the changed documents and the retaliation against ourselves and our children. We know that schools are not going to tell on themselves. They will continue to hide things or most of the reporting will blame the child. They will embellish & exaggerate the whole incident even though they more then likely caused the incident by escalating or even provoking the child. My child was provoked & I have documentation that proves that, but no one asked me for any documentation except Sylvia, late in the hearings. She asked for my DCF report which had verified findings of abuse.

Im assuming when you wrote "take pictures" (which most of us are already doing) you are aware of what this next year holds for disabled (mostly autistic)children & their parents. What scares me the most is that there is no guarantee that we will be allowed to go back to this Bill next year or the year after and add the safety language that was taken out. We gave our Florida legislators pleanty of pictures, videos and parent testimonals so why does Sen. Gardiner feel he has to wait until he see's the data from the school districts to make any new additions to the bill in the future? Are we talking about the same school districts that are abusing our children and then trying to hide it? Whether this Bill becomes Law or is Vetoed I am scared for the children next school year. Im sure the Bill will become Law, I seriously doubt the Governor will veto the Bill. Our children seem to be irrelavent to most politicians.

You say leadership feels they dont have enough information to act. Have they not read the Florida family testimonials, GAO report, NDRN report, ACLU report, COPAA report etc... or the already well documented cases of misuse and illegal use of restraint and/or seclusion. I was told parents were needed for a press conference in Tallahassee for Rep. Hukill. I said I would go & was told I would hear from someone. I finally heard from someone but it was either too late or the press conference was already over. This person said they would rather wait & use me for the hearings. That never happened either, instead we had two men & only one had a child who was abused by R & S. A mother should have been testifying also. My son wanted to talk to legislators & is very capable of doing so. They need to see that our children are just like theirs.

I for one know how much blood, sweat, expense, effort, pleading & tears go into fighting for services and for protection of our disabled children. We are just parents, parents with enough courage to stand up and say this is wrong. We are the ones who got these stories in the news and newspapers all over the nation. Parents feel the same "Until you've walked a mile in the shoes of a parent with a special needs child, during the very stressful school year, while teachers, school staff & districts are covering up, allowing your child to be abused and there is nothing you can do about it because there are no Laws to protect them.

I dont know you, I have only met you once but you are highly respected amongst the Advocate community. If I havent said so, Thank you for all your hard work & taking on the challenge of getting a Bill passed to protect our children. I dont know what is right or wrong anymore in reference to this Bill. I do know our children deserve so much more and it was nice to read you have the same feelings. Most parents have no idea how the political arena works, but after reading your note I have a better understanding of what it takes. One side I didnt see in your note was the side of the disabled children, that is why we are here, because in the end they will pay the price of being abused while people that are passing the laws look the other way. We appreciate you -we know what you have done to help us but please don't try to silence us by insinuating that going against the bill somehow means we are rude or unappreciative, We need everyone to speak up and not feel as if they will be attacked , bullied or shut out like some parents have already been made to feel. The agencies are meant to represent us not the other way around. Remember, we are not criticizing you -we are expressing our discontent with legislators and the bill.

Sincerely,

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Share on other sites
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Guest guest

Posted
Posted

This was a great message. I am confused about what stance to take on this. I was originally all for veto and then I began to read some posts on here advising otherwise and offering some good reasons. I know that this bill did not only cover R and S and that alone may be a good reason to not ask for a veto. I don’t know if the governor were to veto it, what good would that do aside of sending the message that we don’t approve of the flimsy bill? But how else should we express, those of us that feel this way, that we are very unhappy with the outcome? Yes having the lights on and being informed are something, but compared to the heaviness of this issue its like an umbrella in a tsunami. I don’t know what to think about this now and can only agree that we who feel strongly on R and S need to stick together and give each other room to be heard and to have differing opinions while not letting those tear us apart and weaken the strength that comes with unity.

From:

Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 12:36 PM

To: sList

Subject: Re: Restraint & Seclusion Bill - NO VETO PLEASE

,

I have read your note "Do not ask for a veto of the Restraint and Seclusion Bill" and I believe we all feel the same, disappointed. That being said, I havent heard any advocates including myself blaming anyone . We are all aware of the work that went into this. There isnt one advocate that actually thought HB81 would stay intact but we never thought all the safety precautions for our children would be removed from the bill. Our disappointment is with those who just dont get it and changed the bill so drastically and without any parent involvement. Parents & children are in the trenches everyday. I am an advocate because my child was abused by restraints.I know first hand why we need Laws to protect our children. It's been three years since my son was abused and he still wakes up screaming in the middle of the night. He still cant go into the bathroom in his own home alone. He is forever changed but he is alive as you know there are some children that didnt make it home.

When my son was abused no one would help me. I went online & found Phyllis, she took me under her wing & showed me the ropes. I am a part of Florida Families Against Restraint and Seclusion & have been for 3 years. I do see people giving their opinion who werent really involved in pushing the Bill forward but maybe they will jump in & help next round. We need people to feel comfortable speaking out, we need to get the truth out in the open. To tell parents their children are now safe because of this Bill & act like it is a Great thing is just not true. The way you represented the Bill in this note is accurate, you then expressed your opinion of the Bill, which is your right. That way it is up to the individual to decide if "something is better then nothing" because that is what we have here. Among those speaking out I also see a lot of organizations taking credit for all the parents hard work. The same organizations who slammed the door in our face's for years. Only now that R & S is getting the attention it deserves, have they stepped up only to start taking credit for our work or pretending that they helped us. You seem to be taking the parents view of the Bill personal, it's not about us, its about the children. I really didnt see the children mentioned in your note.

As you know there are a lot of holes in this Bill and the parents of abused children know first hand how schools work. We have been in the trenches, through the cover ups, the lies, the changed documents and the retaliation against ourselves and our children. We know that schools are not going to tell on themselves. They will continue to hide things or most of the reporting will blame the child. They will embellish & exaggerate the whole incident even though they more then likely caused the incident by escalating or even provoking the child. My child was provoked & I have documentation that proves that, but no one asked me for any documentation except Sylvia, late in the hearings. She asked for my DCF report which had verified findings of abuse.

Im assuming when you wrote "take pictures" (which most of us are already doing) you are aware of what this next year holds for disabled (mostly autistic)children & their parents. What scares me the most is that there is no guarantee that we will be allowed to go back to this Bill next year or the year after and add the safety language that was taken out. We gave our Florida legislators pleanty of pictures, videos and parent testimonals so why does Sen. Gardiner feel he has to wait until he see's the data from the school districts to make any new additions to the bill in the future? Are we talking about the same school districts that are abusing our children and then trying to hide it? Whether this Bill becomes Law or is Vetoed I am scared for the children next school year. Im sure the Bill will become Law, I seriously doubt the Governor will veto the Bill. Our children seem to be irrelavent to most politicians.

You say leadership feels they dont have enough information to act. Have they not read the Florida family testimonials, GAO report, NDRN report, ACLU report, COPAA report etc... or the already well documented cases of misuse and illegal use of restraint and/or seclusion. I was told parents were needed for a press conference in Tallahassee for Rep. Hukill. I said I would go & was told I would hear from someone. I finally heard from someone but it was either too late or the press conference was already over. This person said they would rather wait & use me for the hearings. That never happened either, instead we had two men & only one had a child who was abused by R & S. A mother should have been testifying also. My son wanted to talk to legislators & is very capable of doing so. They need to see that our children are just like theirs.

I for one know how much blood, sweat, expense, effort, pleading & tears go into fighting for services and for protection of our disabled children. We are just parents, parents with enough courage to stand up and say this is wrong. We are the ones who got these stories in the news and newspapers all over the nation. Parents feel the same "Until you've walked a mile in the shoes of a parent with a special needs child, during the very stressful school year, while teachers, school staff & districts are covering up, allowing your child to be abused and there is nothing you can do about it because there are no Laws to protect them.

I dont know you, I have only met you once but you are highly respected amongst the Advocate community. If I havent said so, Thank you for all your hard work & taking on the challenge of getting a Bill passed to protect our children. I dont know what is right or wrong anymore in reference to this Bill. I do know our children deserve so much more and it was nice to read you have the same feelings. Most parents have no idea how the political arena works, but after reading your note I have a better understanding of what it takes. One side I didnt see in your note was the side of the disabled children, that is why we are here, because in the end they will pay the price of being abused while people that are passing the laws look the other way. We appreciate you -we know what you have done to help us but please don't try to silence us by insinuating that going against the bill somehow means we are rude or unappreciative, We need everyone to speak up and not feel as if they will be attacked , bullied or shut out like some parents have already been made to feel. The agencies are meant to represent us not the other way around. Remember, we are not criticizing you -we are expressing our discontent with legislators and the bill.

Sincerely,

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One thing I am sure of: Negative behavior should not get positive reinforcement.

If R & S has any chance of being revisited next year it needs to be clear to our

Legislators, and especially this years co-sponsors and next years Leadership,

that this Bill was gutted regarding R & S.

Slapping them on the back and telling them what a great job they did is just

driving coffin nails into next years chances. What the 35 House co-sponsors need

to be told is that the Bill they signed on to was not the Bill that passed. The

new Leadership for next years session needs to know that this problem was not

solved and that the data that we are trusting the schools to take needs to be

addressed next session.

In 2008 the autism insuranmce Bill passed. The Legislature knew then that less

than 14% of Florida's autistic children would benefit from the Bill. Governor

Charlie flew all over the State signing the Bill and got his picture in the

paper with Dan Marino, what a great day! I was at the Ft Lauderdale signing. In

the TWO sessions since there has been no effort at all to improve the insurance

situation for autistic children in the State.

Don't reinforce negative behavior. I have spoken to a few of the co-sponsors of

81 / 1073 and they are clueless that it was gutted. Those Legislators aren't

clueless anymore but we need to stop telling them what a great job they did and

tell them we need to start over for next year starting tomorrow.

I just hope next years statistics don't include any deaths.

Steve Moyer

>

> This was a great message. I am confused about what stance to take on this. I

was originally all for veto and then I began to read some posts on here advising

otherwise and offering some good reasons. I know that this bill did not only

cover R and S and that alone may be a good reason to not ask for a veto. I don't

know if the governor were to veto it, what good would that do aside of sending

the message that we don't approve of the flimsy bill? But how else should we

express, those of us that feel this way, that we are very unhappy with the

outcome? Yes having the lights on and being informed are something, but compared

to the heaviness of this issue its like an umbrella in a tsunami. I don't know

what to think about this now and can only agree that we who feel strongly on R

and S need to stick together and give each other room to be heard and to have

differing opinions while not letting those tear us apart and weaken the strength

that comes with unity.

>

>

> From:

> Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 12:36 PM

> To: sList

> Subject: Re: Restraint & Seclusion Bill - NO VETO PLEASE

>

>

>

>

> ,

>

> I have read your note " Do not ask for a veto of the Restraint and Seclusion

Bill " and I believe we all feel the same, disappointed. That being said, I

havent heard any advocates including myself blaming anyone . We are all aware of

the work that went into this. There isnt one advocate that actually thought HB81

would stay intact but we never thought all the safety precautions for our

children would be removed from the bill. Our disappointment is with those who

just dont get it and changed the bill so drastically and without any parent

involvement. Parents & children are in the trenches everyday. I am an advocate

because my child was abused by restraints.I know first hand why we need Laws to

protect our children. It's been three years since my son was abused and he still

wakes up screaming in the middle of the night. He still cant go into the

bathroom in his own home alone. He is forever changed but he is alive as you

know there are some children that didnt make it home.

>

> When my son was abused no one would help me. I went online & found Phyllis,

she took me under her wing & showed me the ropes. I am a part of Florida

Families Against Restraint and Seclusion & have been for 3 years. I do see

people giving their opinion who werent really involved in pushing the Bill

forward but maybe they will jump in & help next round. We need people to feel

comfortable speaking out, we need to get the truth out in the open. To tell

parents their children are now safe because of this Bill & act like it is a

Great thing is just not true. The way you represented the Bill in this note is

accurate, you then expressed your opinion of the Bill, which is your right. That

way it is up to the individual to decide if " something is better then nothing "

because that is what we have here. Among those speaking out I also see a lot of

organizations taking credit for all the parents hard work. The same

organizations who slammed the door in our face's for years. Only now that R & S is

getting the attention it deserves, have they stepped up only to start taking

credit for our work or pretending that they helped us. You seem to be taking

the parents view of the Bill personal, it's not about us, its about the

children. I really didnt see the children mentioned in your note.

>

>

> As you know there are a lot of holes in this Bill and the parents of abused

children know first hand how schools work. We have been in the trenches, through

the cover ups, the lies, the changed documents and the retaliation against

ourselves and our children. We know that schools are not going to tell on

themselves. They will continue to hide things or most of the reporting will

blame the child. They will embellish & exaggerate the whole incident even though

they more then likely caused the incident by escalating or even provoking the

child. My child was provoked & I have documentation that proves that, but no one

asked me for any documentation except Sylvia, late in the hearings. She asked

for my DCF report which had verified findings of abuse.

>

> Im assuming when you wrote " take pictures " (which most of us are already

doing) you are aware of what this next year holds for disabled (mostly

autistic)children & their parents. What scares me the most is that there is no

guarantee that we will be allowed to go back to this Bill next year or the year

after and add the safety language that was taken out. We gave our Florida

legislators pleanty of pictures, videos and parent testimonals so why does Sen.

Gardiner feel he has to wait until he see's the data from the school districts

to make any new additions to the bill in the future? Are we talking about the

same school districts that are abusing our children and then trying to hide it?

Whether this Bill becomes Law or is Vetoed I am scared for the children next

school year. Im sure the Bill will become Law, I seriously doubt the Governor

will veto the Bill. Our children seem to be irrelavent to most politicians.

>

> You say leadership feels they dont have enough information to act. Have they

not read the Florida family testimonials, GAO report, NDRN report, ACLU report,

COPAA report etc... or the already well documented cases of misuse and illegal

use of restraint and/or seclusion. I was told parents were needed for a press

conference in Tallahassee for Rep. Hukill. I said I would go & was told I would

hear from someone. I finally heard from someone but it was either too late or

the press conference was already over. This person said they would rather wait &

use me for the hearings. That never happened either, instead we had two men &

only one had a child who was abused by R & S. A mother should have been testifying

also. My son wanted to talk to legislators & is very capable of doing so. They

need to see that our children are just like theirs.

>

>

> I for one know how much blood, sweat, expense, effort, pleading & tears go

into fighting for services and for protection of our disabled children. We are

just parents, parents with enough courage to stand up and say this is wrong. We

are the ones who got these stories in the news and newspapers all over the

nation. Parents feel the same " Until you've walked a mile in the shoes of a

parent with a special needs child, during the very stressful school year, while

teachers, school staff & districts are covering up, allowing your child to be

abused and there is nothing you can do about it because there are no Laws to

protect them.

>

> I dont know you, I have only met you once but you are highly respected

amongst the Advocate community. If I havent said so, Thank you for all your hard

work & taking on the challenge of getting a Bill passed to protect our children.

I dont know what is right or wrong anymore in reference to this Bill. I do know

our children deserve so much more and it was nice to read you have the same

feelings. Most parents have no idea how the political arena works, but after

reading your note I have a better understanding of what it takes. One side I

didnt see in your note was the side of the disabled children, that is why we are

here, because in the end they will pay the price of being abused while people

that are passing the laws look the other way. We appreciate you -we know what

you have done to help us but please don't try to silence us by insinuating that

going against the bill somehow means we are rude or unappreciative, We need

everyone to speak up and not feel as if they will be attacked , bullied or shut

out like some parents have already been made to feel. The agencies are meant to

represent us not the other way around. Remember, we are not criticizing you -we

are expressing our discontent with legislators and the bill.

>

>

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

>

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