Guest guest Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Dear List, I have been chelating for 7 months now on DMSA 33mg abut round 18. I tried ALA for some time (3 rounds at 12.5mg) and could not tolerate it - was dysfunctional for basic daily chores. My hair test shows that I have overactive adrenals. I seem to have episodes of extreme tiredness. I am generally highly strung, anxious, worrisome and have all symptoms associated with overstressed adrenals. This is also coupled with periods of exhaustion, to the point that I can never rely on my inconsitant energy levels. These symptoms have been here since childhood (since my first amalgam at 11years). I'm now 45 years I am doing well on chelation (improved general wel-being), but really would like to give my adrenals a break. I am unable to obtain a Cortisol Saliva test at the moment to check the levels. I was considering doing a Hydrocortisone taper as Andy suggest for 5 days every few months, just to try and give the adrenals the message that they can calm down, rather than low-dose long-term cortisol. I know I'm very close to burnout and have no support if this happens, so I need to do something soon to help my adrenals while I continue to chelate. I'm taking all the usual supplements as Andy suggests. Plus adrenal glandular and thyroid glandular. And NAC to help my glutathione pathway in my liver. So in summary my question is: Can someone with overactive adrenals benefit from taking cortisol for a time to try and get the message through to my adrenals to back off. I am Hair Test 1 on http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/healingnetwork/hairtest.html I'm certain that all my levels are higher than the hairtest indictated. Thanks for ANY suggestions Kai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 > > Dear List, > > I have been chelating for 7 months now on DMSA 33mg abut round 18. I tried ALA for some time (3 rounds at 12.5mg) and could not tolerate it - was dysfunctional for basic daily chores. > > My hair test shows that I have overactive adrenals. I seem to have episodes of extreme tiredness. I am generally highly strung, anxious, worrisome and have all symptoms associated with overstressed adrenals. This is also coupled with periods of exhaustion, to the point that I can never rely on my inconsitant energy levels. These symptoms have been here since childhood (since my first amalgam at 11years). I'm now 45 years > > I am doing well on chelation (improved general wel-being), but really would like to give my adrenals a break. I am unable to obtain a Cortisol Saliva test at the moment to check the levels. I was considering doing a Hydrocortisone taper as Andy suggest for 5 days every few months, just to try and give the adrenals the message that they can calm down, rather than low-dose long-term cortisol. I know I'm very close to burnout and have no support if this happens, so I need to do something soon to help my adrenals while I continue to chelate. > > I'm taking all the usual supplements as Andy suggests. Plus adrenal glandular and thyroid glandular. And NAC to help my glutathione pathway in my liver. > > So in summary my question is: Can someone with overactive adrenals benefit from taking cortisol for a time to try and get the message through to my adrenals to back off. ok, this one has me real confused! Your symptoms sound like Andy's description of the adrenals being 'shot', making too much adrenaline and not enough cortisol, and I would expect the K and Na up, Mg and Ca down picture on the hair test. But the hair test shows Na, K, Ca up and Mg sort of down. I guess that would sort of fit if the Ca wasn't so high. If I was you I would ask my doctor to give me a thorough medical exam looking for any health problems that may need to be taken into consideration. For example, I had hyperparathyroidism. The hyperparathyroidism might have been 'caused' by the mercury but in my case it had developed to the point where the only way it could be corrected was by surgery. That's just one example. To sort of answer your question, if your adrenals are making insufficient cortisol (or the cortisol isn't getting to where it is needed) and they are also making too much adrenaline, taking physiological doses of cortisol will help the adrenals to calm down and take a rest during chelation. The cortisol (in physiological doses) will help with healing. I have been taking physiological cortisol for 3 years. Without it I would be horizontal 24/7. There was no other option for me. The symptoms that you mention of " highly strung, anxious, worrisome, periods of exhaustion " pretty much vanish as soon as I take my pills. The other things that will really help the adrenaline rushes (this is a big problem for me) are very strict diet, some supplements, meditation, relaxation, positive thinking, laughing, having fun, walking, and those sorts of things. I find that my thoughts can generate an adrenaline rush that I sometimes don't seem to have a huge amount of control over, although I am working on it. Another possibility is that maybe your hairtest got mixed up at the lab. I have 2 tests from DDI, one that fits me and one that totally doesn't. The only reasonable conclusion is that DDI goofed with the one that doesn't. Didn't Dean say that most of the people in SA had highish Uranium? and on this test yours is way low.... hmmmmm J > I am Hair Test 1 on http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/healingnetwork/hairtest.html > I'm certain that all my levels are higher than the hairtest indictated. > > Thanks for ANY suggestions > Kai > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 > > Dear List, > > I have been chelating for 7 months now on DMSA 33mg abut round 18. I tried ALA for some time (3 rounds at 12.5mg) and could not tolerate it - was dysfunctional for basic daily chores. > > My hair test shows that I have overactive adrenals. I seem to have episodes of extreme tiredness. I am generally highly strung, anxious, worrisome and have all symptoms associated with overstressed adrenals. This is also coupled with periods of exhaustion, to the point that I can never rely on my inconsitant energy levels. These symptoms have been here since childhood (since my first amalgam at 11years). I'm now 45 years > > I am doing well on chelation (improved general wel-being), but really would like to give my adrenals a break. I am unable to obtain a Cortisol Saliva test at the moment to check the levels. I was considering doing a Hydrocortisone taper as Andy suggest for 5 days every few months, just to try and give the adrenals the message that they can calm down, rather than low-dose long-term cortisol. I know I'm very close to burnout and have no support if this happens, so I need to do something soon to help my adrenals while I continue to chelate. > > I'm taking all the usual supplements as Andy suggests. Plus adrenal glandular and thyroid glandular. And NAC to help my glutathione pathway in my liver. > > So in summary my question is: Can someone with overactive adrenals benefit from taking cortisol for a time to try and get the message through to my adrenals to back off. ok, this one has me real confused! Your symptoms sound like Andy's description of the adrenals being 'shot', making too much adrenaline and not enough cortisol, and I would expect the K and Na up, Mg and Ca down picture on the hair test. But the hair test shows Na, K, Ca up and Mg sort of down. I guess that would sort of fit if the Ca wasn't so high. If I was you I would ask my doctor to give me a thorough medical exam looking for any health problems that may need to be taken into consideration. For example, I had hyperparathyroidism. The hyperparathyroidism might have been 'caused' by the mercury but in my case it had developed to the point where the only way it could be corrected was by surgery. That's just one example. To sort of answer your question, if your adrenals are making insufficient cortisol (or the cortisol isn't getting to where it is needed) and they are also making too much adrenaline, taking physiological doses of cortisol will help the adrenals to calm down and take a rest during chelation. The cortisol (in physiological doses) will help with healing. I have been taking physiological cortisol for 3 years. Without it I would be horizontal 24/7. There was no other option for me. The symptoms that you mention of " highly strung, anxious, worrisome, periods of exhaustion " pretty much vanish as soon as I take my pills. The other things that will really help the adrenaline rushes (this is a big problem for me) are very strict diet, some supplements, meditation, relaxation, positive thinking, laughing, having fun, walking, and those sorts of things. I find that my thoughts can generate an adrenaline rush that I sometimes don't seem to have a huge amount of control over, although I am working on it. Another possibility is that maybe your hairtest got mixed up at the lab. I have 2 tests from DDI, one that fits me and one that totally doesn't. The only reasonable conclusion is that DDI goofed with the one that doesn't. Didn't Dean say that most of the people in SA had highish Uranium? and on this test yours is way low.... hmmmmm J > I am Hair Test 1 on http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/healingnetwork/hairtest.html > I'm certain that all my levels are higher than the hairtest indictated. > > Thanks for ANY suggestions > Kai > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 > > Dear List, > > I have been chelating for 7 months now on DMSA 33mg abut round 18. I tried ALA for some time (3 rounds at 12.5mg) and could not tolerate it - was dysfunctional for basic daily chores. > > My hair test shows that I have overactive adrenals. I seem to have episodes of extreme tiredness. I am generally highly strung, anxious, worrisome and have all symptoms associated with overstressed adrenals. This is also coupled with periods of exhaustion, to the point that I can never rely on my inconsitant energy levels. These symptoms have been here since childhood (since my first amalgam at 11years). I'm now 45 years > > I am doing well on chelation (improved general wel-being), but really would like to give my adrenals a break. I am unable to obtain a Cortisol Saliva test at the moment to check the levels. I was considering doing a Hydrocortisone taper as Andy suggest for 5 days every few months, just to try and give the adrenals the message that they can calm down, rather than low-dose long-term cortisol. I know I'm very close to burnout and have no support if this happens, so I need to do something soon to help my adrenals while I continue to chelate. > > I'm taking all the usual supplements as Andy suggests. Plus adrenal glandular and thyroid glandular. And NAC to help my glutathione pathway in my liver. > > So in summary my question is: Can someone with overactive adrenals benefit from taking cortisol for a time to try and get the message through to my adrenals to back off. ok, this one has me real confused! Your symptoms sound like Andy's description of the adrenals being 'shot', making too much adrenaline and not enough cortisol, and I would expect the K and Na up, Mg and Ca down picture on the hair test. But the hair test shows Na, K, Ca up and Mg sort of down. I guess that would sort of fit if the Ca wasn't so high. If I was you I would ask my doctor to give me a thorough medical exam looking for any health problems that may need to be taken into consideration. For example, I had hyperparathyroidism. The hyperparathyroidism might have been 'caused' by the mercury but in my case it had developed to the point where the only way it could be corrected was by surgery. That's just one example. To sort of answer your question, if your adrenals are making insufficient cortisol (or the cortisol isn't getting to where it is needed) and they are also making too much adrenaline, taking physiological doses of cortisol will help the adrenals to calm down and take a rest during chelation. The cortisol (in physiological doses) will help with healing. I have been taking physiological cortisol for 3 years. Without it I would be horizontal 24/7. There was no other option for me. The symptoms that you mention of " highly strung, anxious, worrisome, periods of exhaustion " pretty much vanish as soon as I take my pills. The other things that will really help the adrenaline rushes (this is a big problem for me) are very strict diet, some supplements, meditation, relaxation, positive thinking, laughing, having fun, walking, and those sorts of things. I find that my thoughts can generate an adrenaline rush that I sometimes don't seem to have a huge amount of control over, although I am working on it. Another possibility is that maybe your hairtest got mixed up at the lab. I have 2 tests from DDI, one that fits me and one that totally doesn't. The only reasonable conclusion is that DDI goofed with the one that doesn't. Didn't Dean say that most of the people in SA had highish Uranium? and on this test yours is way low.... hmmmmm J > I am Hair Test 1 on http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/healingnetwork/hairtest.html > I'm certain that all my levels are higher than the hairtest indictated. > > Thanks for ANY suggestions > Kai > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 > Another possibility is that maybe your hairtest got mixed up at the > lab. I have 2 tests from DDI, one that fits me and one that totally > doesn't. The only reasonable conclusion is that DDI goofed with the > one that doesn't. Didn't Dean say that most of the people in SA had > highish Uranium? and on this test yours is way low.... hmmmmm Everybody that has had a test in South Africa so far has been low in selenium, germanium and molybdenum. It seems our soils are deficient in these minerals. It has been known that we have almost no magnesium and zinc either. Perhaps one of the reasons for the HIV epidemic. We do not have volcanic soils here that are rich in nutrients. Kai's test does fit him I think. He seems to be running on a treadmill of life with the adrenals pumping out adrenaline, DHEA and possibly even too much cortisol. The suggestion of taking cortisol to calm 'hyper-active' adrenals is interesting. I thought it was only used when you are 'hypo-adrenal' initially. But the cortisol would have a bio-feedback mechanism to slow production from the adrenals if used in sufficient quantities, perhaps higher that physiological doses. I wonder if this is an appropriate case for a taper. Does mention tapers? Or use the low dose and see how he gets on. Kai has said he has no problem handling stressful situation. He spikes his adrenaline very high (his Na/Mg ration is 13.88 which is super-high indicating massive adrenaline output), but his cortisol levels seems to be able to match it, at least at the time of the stressful event. No low blood sugar issues, no shaking etc. He has very deep sleep, but the highs come with consistent crashes. He also craves sugar and coffee. There is a possibility of Hashimotos, with his thyroid having alternating periods of hyper vs. hypo. He also has a reddening of the skin on the throat area, which is something I have seen with people who have hair tests in indicating hyper-active adrenals (as is a stress situation). Does anybody else have this reddening? He is lean and muscular, and cold intolerant. I hope I've got this right Kai? Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 > > Dear List, > > I have been chelating for 7 months now on DMSA 33mg abut round 18. I tried ALA for some time (3 rounds at 12.5mg) and could not tolerate it - was dysfunctional for basic daily chores. > > My hair test shows that I have overactive adrenals. I seem to have episodes of extreme tiredness. I am generally highly strung, anxious, worrisome and have all symptoms associated with overstressed adrenals. This is also coupled with periods of exhaustion, to the point that I can never rely on my inconsitant energy levels. These symptoms have been here since childhood (since my first amalgam at 11years). I'm now 45 years I sure do recognize this description. I was like this for many years, too. > I am doing well on chelation (improved general wel-being), but really would like to give my adrenals a break. I am unable to obtain a Cortisol Saliva test at the moment to check the levels. I was considering doing a Hydrocortisone taper as Andy suggest for 5 days every few months, just to try and give the adrenals the message that they can calm down, rather than low-dose long-term cortisol. You could try this. I haven't done a taper, but some here have done them. Andy gives instructions for this in Amalgam Illness. I know I'm very close to burnout and have no support if this happens, so I need to do something soon to help my adrenals while I continue to chelate. > > I'm taking all the usual supplements as Andy suggests. Plus adrenal glandular and thyroid glandular. And NAC to help my glutathione pathway in my liver. Does the adrenal glandular help at all? Are you taking enough of it? Do you know you really need the thyroid glandular? I wonder if taking too much thyroid glandular for your needs would burn out your adrenals faster. > So in summary my question is: Can someone with overactive adrenals benefit from taking cortisol for a time to try and get the message through to my adrenals to back off. This may reduce cortisol production, but I don't know about adrenaline. 's reply suggests that long term use does not reduce adrenaline for her, so I don't think a taper would either. I like all her suggestions for stress reduction - these are wonderful ideas for mercury poisoned people. You need to try to train your body to turn off the stress response. It will keep getting turned back on due to the biochemical problems, but if you know how to mitigate that it will help a lot. Deep breathing is another idea that may help. Also, yoga, tai chi, qigong. Slow, calming activities. I don't know anything to take that will directly reduce adrenaline production. I think it may really be a question of minimizing the triggers. -- > I am Hair Test 1 on http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/healingnetwork/hairtest.html > I'm certain that all my levels are higher than the hairtest indictated. > > Thanks for ANY suggestions > Kai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 > > Dear List, > > I have been chelating for 7 months now on DMSA 33mg abut round 18. I tried ALA for some time (3 rounds at 12.5mg) and could not tolerate it - was dysfunctional for basic daily chores. > > My hair test shows that I have overactive adrenals. I seem to have episodes of extreme tiredness. I am generally highly strung, anxious, worrisome and have all symptoms associated with overstressed adrenals. This is also coupled with periods of exhaustion, to the point that I can never rely on my inconsitant energy levels. These symptoms have been here since childhood (since my first amalgam at 11years). I'm now 45 years I sure do recognize this description. I was like this for many years, too. > I am doing well on chelation (improved general wel-being), but really would like to give my adrenals a break. I am unable to obtain a Cortisol Saliva test at the moment to check the levels. I was considering doing a Hydrocortisone taper as Andy suggest for 5 days every few months, just to try and give the adrenals the message that they can calm down, rather than low-dose long-term cortisol. You could try this. I haven't done a taper, but some here have done them. Andy gives instructions for this in Amalgam Illness. I know I'm very close to burnout and have no support if this happens, so I need to do something soon to help my adrenals while I continue to chelate. > > I'm taking all the usual supplements as Andy suggests. Plus adrenal glandular and thyroid glandular. And NAC to help my glutathione pathway in my liver. Does the adrenal glandular help at all? Are you taking enough of it? Do you know you really need the thyroid glandular? I wonder if taking too much thyroid glandular for your needs would burn out your adrenals faster. > So in summary my question is: Can someone with overactive adrenals benefit from taking cortisol for a time to try and get the message through to my adrenals to back off. This may reduce cortisol production, but I don't know about adrenaline. 's reply suggests that long term use does not reduce adrenaline for her, so I don't think a taper would either. I like all her suggestions for stress reduction - these are wonderful ideas for mercury poisoned people. You need to try to train your body to turn off the stress response. It will keep getting turned back on due to the biochemical problems, but if you know how to mitigate that it will help a lot. Deep breathing is another idea that may help. Also, yoga, tai chi, qigong. Slow, calming activities. I don't know anything to take that will directly reduce adrenaline production. I think it may really be a question of minimizing the triggers. -- > I am Hair Test 1 on http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/healingnetwork/hairtest.html > I'm certain that all my levels are higher than the hairtest indictated. > > Thanks for ANY suggestions > Kai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 > > Dear List, > > I have been chelating for 7 months now on DMSA 33mg abut round 18. I tried ALA for some time (3 rounds at 12.5mg) and could not tolerate it - was dysfunctional for basic daily chores. > > My hair test shows that I have overactive adrenals. I seem to have episodes of extreme tiredness. I am generally highly strung, anxious, worrisome and have all symptoms associated with overstressed adrenals. This is also coupled with periods of exhaustion, to the point that I can never rely on my inconsitant energy levels. These symptoms have been here since childhood (since my first amalgam at 11years). I'm now 45 years I sure do recognize this description. I was like this for many years, too. > I am doing well on chelation (improved general wel-being), but really would like to give my adrenals a break. I am unable to obtain a Cortisol Saliva test at the moment to check the levels. I was considering doing a Hydrocortisone taper as Andy suggest for 5 days every few months, just to try and give the adrenals the message that they can calm down, rather than low-dose long-term cortisol. You could try this. I haven't done a taper, but some here have done them. Andy gives instructions for this in Amalgam Illness. I know I'm very close to burnout and have no support if this happens, so I need to do something soon to help my adrenals while I continue to chelate. > > I'm taking all the usual supplements as Andy suggests. Plus adrenal glandular and thyroid glandular. And NAC to help my glutathione pathway in my liver. Does the adrenal glandular help at all? Are you taking enough of it? Do you know you really need the thyroid glandular? I wonder if taking too much thyroid glandular for your needs would burn out your adrenals faster. > So in summary my question is: Can someone with overactive adrenals benefit from taking cortisol for a time to try and get the message through to my adrenals to back off. This may reduce cortisol production, but I don't know about adrenaline. 's reply suggests that long term use does not reduce adrenaline for her, so I don't think a taper would either. I like all her suggestions for stress reduction - these are wonderful ideas for mercury poisoned people. You need to try to train your body to turn off the stress response. It will keep getting turned back on due to the biochemical problems, but if you know how to mitigate that it will help a lot. Deep breathing is another idea that may help. Also, yoga, tai chi, qigong. Slow, calming activities. I don't know anything to take that will directly reduce adrenaline production. I think it may really be a question of minimizing the triggers. -- > I am Hair Test 1 on http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/healingnetwork/hairtest.html > I'm certain that all my levels are higher than the hairtest indictated. > > Thanks for ANY suggestions > Kai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 > Kai's test does fit him I think. He seems to be running on a >treadmill of > life with the adrenals pumping out adrenaline, DHEA and possibly >even too > much cortisol. ok. Like I said, Kai's test and symptoms have me confused. I suppose it is possible a person could be making too much cortisol (cushing's in the extreme), and I don't know what would help in that case. The symptoms were sounding hypoadrenal to me until you reminded me. I don't recall Jefferies mentioning tapers. I only read the first half of his book. J > > > Another possibility is that maybe your hairtest got mixed up at the > > lab. I have 2 tests from DDI, one that fits me and one that totally > > doesn't. The only reasonable conclusion is that DDI goofed with the > > one that doesn't. Didn't Dean say that most of the people in SA had > > highish Uranium? and on this test yours is way low.... hmmmmm > > Everybody that has had a test in South Africa so far has been low in > selenium, germanium and molybdenum. It seems our soils are deficient in > these minerals. It has been known that we have almost no magnesium and zinc > either. Perhaps one of the reasons for the HIV epidemic. We do not have > volcanic soils here that are rich in nutrients. > > Kai's test does fit him I think. He seems to be running on a treadmill of > life with the adrenals pumping out adrenaline, DHEA and possibly even too > much cortisol. The suggestion of taking cortisol to calm 'hyper-active' > adrenals is interesting. I thought it was only used when you are > 'hypo-adrenal' initially. But the cortisol would have a bio-feedback > mechanism to slow production from the adrenals if used in sufficient > quantities, perhaps higher that physiological doses. I wonder if this is an > appropriate case for a taper. Does mention tapers? Or use the low > dose and see how he gets on. > > Kai has said he has no problem handling stressful situation. He spikes his > adrenaline very high (his Na/Mg ration is 13.88 which is super-high > indicating massive adrenaline output), but his cortisol levels seems to be > able to match it, at least at the time of the stressful event. No low blood > sugar issues, no shaking etc. He has very deep sleep, but the highs come > with consistent crashes. He also craves sugar and coffee. There is a > possibility of Hashimotos, with his thyroid having alternating periods of > hyper vs. hypo. He also has a reddening of the skin on the throat area, > which is something I have seen with people who have hair tests in indicating > hyper-active adrenals (as is a stress situation). Does anybody else have > this reddening? > He is lean and muscular, and cold intolerant. I hope I've got this right > Kai? > > Dean > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 The hair test will pick up adrenal insufficency and to my knowledge not over active adrenals. I think you are mincing words here what you have is underactive, fatigue, hypoadrenaia, adrenal fatigue etc. Not overactive, if they were overactive you would'nt have the symptoms listed or a sign on the hair test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 > The hair test will pick up adrenal insufficiency and to my knowledge > not over active adrenals. I think you are mincing words here what you > have is underactive, fatigue, hypoadrenaia, adrenal fatigue etc. Not > overactive, if they were overactive you would'nt have the symptoms > listed or a sign on the hair test. I don't think this is entirely the case. I have discussed this issue at length with Kai (he does not have regular internet access) and his symptoms are not all hypo-adrenal barring the fatigue, crashes and inconsistent energy. There is no sleep disturbance, except he can sleep for long and deep without waking and is often tired. No issues with eating protein, no digestive disturbances or low blood pressure, or shaking with stress etc. He can handle a lot of stress. Had years of bulging eyes (corrected with the dental clean-up) and is mostly hyperalert. Andy says the Na/Mg indicates Adrenalin production. " If More than 5 is high and the body is making too much adrenaline leads to hyperactivity, anxiety, panic and immune function (avoid tyrosine and phenylalanine - need digestive enzyme) pg 114 HTI Kai's is 13.88 - no other tests I have seen so far come close to this. And all his symptoms thus point to excessive adrenaline production. According to the research of Dr. Eck, the following are indicators of adrenal insufficiency on a hair (unwashed) analysis: .. Sodium level less than 250 .. Potassium level less than 10 .. Sodium/potassium ratio less than 2.5:1 .. Sodium/magnesium ratio less than 4.17:1 .. Calcium/potassium ratio greater than 10:1 Kai does not meet these criteria. Rather he meets the criteria for overactive adrenals. Overactive adrenals burn too much energy and the person runs out of steam. Eck suggests that potassium levels roughly correlate wit cortisol and sodium levels roughly correlate with aldosterone levels. These are both high increasing the likelihood of overactive adrenals. Eck also says " Na/Mg ratio greater than about 4 indicates sympathetic dominance. Greater than 8 is extreme Sympathetic dominant individuals do not spend enough time in a parasympathetic state to rebuild the body, so it eventually becomes depleted of nutrients or burns out. " He says symptoms of overactive adrenals are: Symptoms of Overactive Adrenal Glands include: Tendency to inflammation and inflammatory reactions; Increased stamina and drive; Aggressiveness, impulsiveness; Hypertension; Diabetes; Type A personality http://www.arltma.com/RatiosDoc.htm Dr also states: In adrenal exhaustion, both hair sodium and potassium tend to be low. In late stages of stress, according to Selye, (The Stress of Life and other works), cortisol levels rise again, reflected on a hair analysis by potassium rising in relation to sodium. This is called an inverted sodium/potassium ratio, an indicator of chronic stress. This pattern of overactivity is usually the first stage of stress (alarm - or fight and flight) , the if the stressor is sustained for long (or there is a bigger stress event added) only then adrenals crash. So it may be an important pre-cursor on hair tests to watch out for. Also those stuck in anger reaction patterns apparently seem to have hyper-adrenals. I've heard that mercury can stimulate the production of thyroid hormone as well as block it. Perhaps it can do the same with some people's adrenals? Surely a poisoning of any nature will awaken the 'fight and flight' response until the poison is removed or the adrenals crash? Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 > The hair test will pick up adrenal insufficiency and to my knowledge > not over active adrenals. I think you are mincing words here what you > have is underactive, fatigue, hypoadrenaia, adrenal fatigue etc. Not > overactive, if they were overactive you would'nt have the symptoms > listed or a sign on the hair test. I don't think this is entirely the case. I have discussed this issue at length with Kai (he does not have regular internet access) and his symptoms are not all hypo-adrenal barring the fatigue, crashes and inconsistent energy. There is no sleep disturbance, except he can sleep for long and deep without waking and is often tired. No issues with eating protein, no digestive disturbances or low blood pressure, or shaking with stress etc. He can handle a lot of stress. Had years of bulging eyes (corrected with the dental clean-up) and is mostly hyperalert. Andy says the Na/Mg indicates Adrenalin production. " If More than 5 is high and the body is making too much adrenaline leads to hyperactivity, anxiety, panic and immune function (avoid tyrosine and phenylalanine - need digestive enzyme) pg 114 HTI Kai's is 13.88 - no other tests I have seen so far come close to this. And all his symptoms thus point to excessive adrenaline production. According to the research of Dr. Eck, the following are indicators of adrenal insufficiency on a hair (unwashed) analysis: .. Sodium level less than 250 .. Potassium level less than 10 .. Sodium/potassium ratio less than 2.5:1 .. Sodium/magnesium ratio less than 4.17:1 .. Calcium/potassium ratio greater than 10:1 Kai does not meet these criteria. Rather he meets the criteria for overactive adrenals. Overactive adrenals burn too much energy and the person runs out of steam. Eck suggests that potassium levels roughly correlate wit cortisol and sodium levels roughly correlate with aldosterone levels. These are both high increasing the likelihood of overactive adrenals. Eck also says " Na/Mg ratio greater than about 4 indicates sympathetic dominance. Greater than 8 is extreme Sympathetic dominant individuals do not spend enough time in a parasympathetic state to rebuild the body, so it eventually becomes depleted of nutrients or burns out. " He says symptoms of overactive adrenals are: Symptoms of Overactive Adrenal Glands include: Tendency to inflammation and inflammatory reactions; Increased stamina and drive; Aggressiveness, impulsiveness; Hypertension; Diabetes; Type A personality http://www.arltma.com/RatiosDoc.htm Dr also states: In adrenal exhaustion, both hair sodium and potassium tend to be low. In late stages of stress, according to Selye, (The Stress of Life and other works), cortisol levels rise again, reflected on a hair analysis by potassium rising in relation to sodium. This is called an inverted sodium/potassium ratio, an indicator of chronic stress. This pattern of overactivity is usually the first stage of stress (alarm - or fight and flight) , the if the stressor is sustained for long (or there is a bigger stress event added) only then adrenals crash. So it may be an important pre-cursor on hair tests to watch out for. Also those stuck in anger reaction patterns apparently seem to have hyper-adrenals. I've heard that mercury can stimulate the production of thyroid hormone as well as block it. Perhaps it can do the same with some people's adrenals? Surely a poisoning of any nature will awaken the 'fight and flight' response until the poison is removed or the adrenals crash? Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Well, the title of this thread says something. Over the years leading to complete adrenal burnout there will be periods of time when the person can repond to stress and during those times the adrenals will be over active. The over activity may be a big factor that eventually leads to burnout. I think Kai is telling us that his adrenals were over active at times and are now heading for burnout. > > > The hair test will pick up adrenal insufficiency and to my knowledge > > not over active adrenals. I think you are mincing words here what you > > have is underactive, fatigue, hypoadrenaia, adrenal fatigue etc. Not > > overactive, if they were overactive you would'nt have the symptoms > > listed or a sign on the hair test. > > I don't think this is entirely the case. I have discussed this issue at > length with Kai (he does not have regular internet access) and his symptoms > are not all hypo-adrenal barring >the fatigue, crashes and inconsistent > energy. Those three are hypoadrenal for sure. > There is no sleep disturbance, except he can sleep for long and deep > without waking and is often tired. No issues with eating protein, no > digestive disturbances or low blood pressure, or shaking with stress etc. Of ALL of those you mention above the ONLY one that I have and have had is the low blood pressure. I am the ultimate adrenal burnout case........ There are people in the 's group I follow who have high blood pressure. He > can handle a lot of stress. I couldn't handle a lot of stress, but I did deal with stressful situations quite well until I hit " total burnout " about 5 or 6 years ago. (Keep in mind that my biggest mercury exposures were 30 years ago and my adrenals have been going steadily down since then). > Had years of bulging eyes The bulging eyes is a symptom of hyper thyroid. There's one difference between me and Kai. Kai may have had a tendancy to hyperthyroidism (I don't know for sure, it would have to be checked with blood tests) whereas I have been hypothyroid. Thyroid tests may be one thing for Kai to consider. (corrected with the > dental clean-up) and is mostly hyperalert. > > Andy says the Na/Mg indicates Adrenalin production. > " If More than 5 is high and the body is making too much adrenaline leads to > hyperactivity, anxiety, panic and immune function (avoid tyrosine and > phenylalanine - need digestive enzyme) pg 114 HTI > > Kai's is 13.88 - no other tests I have seen so far come close to this. For sure Kai is producing lots of adrenaline. Many individuals can produce lots of adrenaline and very little cortisol. My cortisol is mostly coming from Cortef these days but I get torrents of adrenaline at times. Maybe it is hyperthyroidism and hyper adrenaline production that has confused the issue here. And > all his symptoms thus point to excessive adrenaline production. > Right > According to the research of Dr. Eck, the following are indicators of > adrenal insufficiency on a hair (unwashed) analysis: > . Sodium level less than 250 > . Potassium level less than 10 > . Sodium/potassium ratio less than 2.5:1 > . Sodium/magnesium ratio less than 4.17:1 > . Calcium/potassium ratio greater than 10:1 > > Kai does not meet these criteria. Rather he meets the criteria for > overactive adrenals. Overactive adrenals burn too much energy and the person > runs out of steam. Eck suggests that potassium levels roughly correlate wit > cortisol and sodium levels roughly correlate with aldosterone levels. These > are both high increasing the likelihood of overactive adrenals. > > Eck also says " Na/Mg ratio greater than about 4 indicates sympathetic > dominance. Greater than 8 is extreme > Sympathetic dominant individuals do not spend enough time in a > parasympathetic state to rebuild the body, so it eventually becomes depleted > of nutrients or burns out. " > > He says symptoms of overactive adrenals are: Symptoms of Overactive Adrenal > Glands include: Tendency to inflammation and inflammatory reactions; > Increased stamina and drive; Aggressiveness, impulsiveness; Hypertension; > Diabetes; Type A personality http://www.arltma.com/RatiosDoc.htm > OK, so the term " overactive adrenals " is coming from Dr. Eck, right? I'm convinced that Andy has the hair test interpretation right because I have been following tests and most everything he says fits the tests. This is the first time I have heard of Eck, and wouldn't necessarily go along with everything he says or not. Isn't Eck using unwashed hair and DDI samples are washed? so we can't really use his work anyway? > Dr also states: In adrenal exhaustion, both hair sodium and potassium > tend to be low. Sodium and potassium low is just one case of adrenal exhaustion - the one where there is not enough adrenaline, cortisol, AND thyroid hormone. The other scenario is sodium and potassium UP - too much adrenaline but not enough cortisol. If Kai hasn't reached that one yet I think he's on the way. The only thing that isn't fitting is the Ca level on Kai's test and I think there might be something else going on that is pushing Ca into hair. The sodium level of 500 on Kai's test is fairly incredible too. The words that Kai is using in his description says hypo adrenal: " dysfunctional for basic daily chores. episodes of extreme tiredness. highly strung, anxious, worrisome periods of exhaustion inconsitant energy levels " http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/frequent-dose-chelation/message/13392 J (Potassium and sodium up with calcium and magnesium down means too much adrenaline but not enough cortisol. Potassium and sodium down with calcium and magnesium up means not enough cortisol, adrenaline and thyroid hormone. http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html ) In late stages of stress, according to Selye, (The Stress > of Life and other works), cortisol levels rise again, reflected on a hair > analysis by potassium rising in relation to sodium. This is called an > inverted sodium/potassium ratio, an indicator of chronic stress. > > This pattern of overactivity is usually the first stage of stress (alarm - > or fight and flight) , the if the stressor is sustained for long (or there > is a bigger stress event added) only then adrenals crash. So it may be an > important pre-cursor on hair tests to watch out for. Also those stuck in > anger reaction patterns apparently seem to have hyper-adrenals. > > I've heard that mercury can stimulate the production of thyroid hormone as > well as block it. Perhaps it can do the same with some people's adrenals? > Surely a poisoning of any nature will awaken the 'fight and flight' response > until the poison is removed or the adrenals crash? > > Dean > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Well, the title of this thread says something. Over the years leading to complete adrenal burnout there will be periods of time when the person can repond to stress and during those times the adrenals will be over active. The over activity may be a big factor that eventually leads to burnout. I think Kai is telling us that his adrenals were over active at times and are now heading for burnout. > > > The hair test will pick up adrenal insufficiency and to my knowledge > > not over active adrenals. I think you are mincing words here what you > > have is underactive, fatigue, hypoadrenaia, adrenal fatigue etc. Not > > overactive, if they were overactive you would'nt have the symptoms > > listed or a sign on the hair test. > > I don't think this is entirely the case. I have discussed this issue at > length with Kai (he does not have regular internet access) and his symptoms > are not all hypo-adrenal barring >the fatigue, crashes and inconsistent > energy. Those three are hypoadrenal for sure. > There is no sleep disturbance, except he can sleep for long and deep > without waking and is often tired. No issues with eating protein, no > digestive disturbances or low blood pressure, or shaking with stress etc. Of ALL of those you mention above the ONLY one that I have and have had is the low blood pressure. I am the ultimate adrenal burnout case........ There are people in the 's group I follow who have high blood pressure. He > can handle a lot of stress. I couldn't handle a lot of stress, but I did deal with stressful situations quite well until I hit " total burnout " about 5 or 6 years ago. (Keep in mind that my biggest mercury exposures were 30 years ago and my adrenals have been going steadily down since then). > Had years of bulging eyes The bulging eyes is a symptom of hyper thyroid. There's one difference between me and Kai. Kai may have had a tendancy to hyperthyroidism (I don't know for sure, it would have to be checked with blood tests) whereas I have been hypothyroid. Thyroid tests may be one thing for Kai to consider. (corrected with the > dental clean-up) and is mostly hyperalert. > > Andy says the Na/Mg indicates Adrenalin production. > " If More than 5 is high and the body is making too much adrenaline leads to > hyperactivity, anxiety, panic and immune function (avoid tyrosine and > phenylalanine - need digestive enzyme) pg 114 HTI > > Kai's is 13.88 - no other tests I have seen so far come close to this. For sure Kai is producing lots of adrenaline. Many individuals can produce lots of adrenaline and very little cortisol. My cortisol is mostly coming from Cortef these days but I get torrents of adrenaline at times. Maybe it is hyperthyroidism and hyper adrenaline production that has confused the issue here. And > all his symptoms thus point to excessive adrenaline production. > Right > According to the research of Dr. Eck, the following are indicators of > adrenal insufficiency on a hair (unwashed) analysis: > . Sodium level less than 250 > . Potassium level less than 10 > . Sodium/potassium ratio less than 2.5:1 > . Sodium/magnesium ratio less than 4.17:1 > . Calcium/potassium ratio greater than 10:1 > > Kai does not meet these criteria. Rather he meets the criteria for > overactive adrenals. Overactive adrenals burn too much energy and the person > runs out of steam. Eck suggests that potassium levels roughly correlate wit > cortisol and sodium levels roughly correlate with aldosterone levels. These > are both high increasing the likelihood of overactive adrenals. > > Eck also says " Na/Mg ratio greater than about 4 indicates sympathetic > dominance. Greater than 8 is extreme > Sympathetic dominant individuals do not spend enough time in a > parasympathetic state to rebuild the body, so it eventually becomes depleted > of nutrients or burns out. " > > He says symptoms of overactive adrenals are: Symptoms of Overactive Adrenal > Glands include: Tendency to inflammation and inflammatory reactions; > Increased stamina and drive; Aggressiveness, impulsiveness; Hypertension; > Diabetes; Type A personality http://www.arltma.com/RatiosDoc.htm > OK, so the term " overactive adrenals " is coming from Dr. Eck, right? I'm convinced that Andy has the hair test interpretation right because I have been following tests and most everything he says fits the tests. This is the first time I have heard of Eck, and wouldn't necessarily go along with everything he says or not. Isn't Eck using unwashed hair and DDI samples are washed? so we can't really use his work anyway? > Dr also states: In adrenal exhaustion, both hair sodium and potassium > tend to be low. Sodium and potassium low is just one case of adrenal exhaustion - the one where there is not enough adrenaline, cortisol, AND thyroid hormone. The other scenario is sodium and potassium UP - too much adrenaline but not enough cortisol. If Kai hasn't reached that one yet I think he's on the way. The only thing that isn't fitting is the Ca level on Kai's test and I think there might be something else going on that is pushing Ca into hair. The sodium level of 500 on Kai's test is fairly incredible too. The words that Kai is using in his description says hypo adrenal: " dysfunctional for basic daily chores. episodes of extreme tiredness. highly strung, anxious, worrisome periods of exhaustion inconsitant energy levels " http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/frequent-dose-chelation/message/13392 J (Potassium and sodium up with calcium and magnesium down means too much adrenaline but not enough cortisol. Potassium and sodium down with calcium and magnesium up means not enough cortisol, adrenaline and thyroid hormone. http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html ) In late stages of stress, according to Selye, (The Stress > of Life and other works), cortisol levels rise again, reflected on a hair > analysis by potassium rising in relation to sodium. This is called an > inverted sodium/potassium ratio, an indicator of chronic stress. > > This pattern of overactivity is usually the first stage of stress (alarm - > or fight and flight) , the if the stressor is sustained for long (or there > is a bigger stress event added) only then adrenals crash. So it may be an > important pre-cursor on hair tests to watch out for. Also those stuck in > anger reaction patterns apparently seem to have hyper-adrenals. > > I've heard that mercury can stimulate the production of thyroid hormone as > well as block it. Perhaps it can do the same with some people's adrenals? > Surely a poisoning of any nature will awaken the 'fight and flight' response > until the poison is removed or the adrenals crash? > > Dean > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Are you using adrenal cortex extract or just adrenal glandular? And if so, how much or how often per day are you taking it. I am treating fried adrenals in myself and my kid but we use the cortex extract. Andy had said on MA that the glandular is not as effective as the cortex extract. You also need to take it more than once a day. Some need it twice, some three times, and some four times. Just a thought that might help. You can also do the saliva test to see which hormones are out of whack. But your symptoms fit what we were seeing with adrenal fatigue. > > Dear List, > > I have been chelating for 7 months now on DMSA 33mg abut round 18. I tried ALA for some time (3 rounds at 12.5mg) and could not tolerate it - was dysfunctional for basic daily chores. > > My hair test shows that I have overactive adrenals. I seem to have episodes of extreme tiredness. I am generally highly strung, anxious, worrisome and have all symptoms associated with overstressed adrenals. This is also coupled with periods of exhaustion, to the point that I can never rely on my inconsitant energy levels. These symptoms have been here since childhood (since my first amalgam at 11years). I'm now 45 years > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Are you using adrenal cortex extract or just adrenal glandular? And if so, how much or how often per day are you taking it. I am treating fried adrenals in myself and my kid but we use the cortex extract. Andy had said on MA that the glandular is not as effective as the cortex extract. You also need to take it more than once a day. Some need it twice, some three times, and some four times. Just a thought that might help. You can also do the saliva test to see which hormones are out of whack. But your symptoms fit what we were seeing with adrenal fatigue. > > Dear List, > > I have been chelating for 7 months now on DMSA 33mg abut round 18. I tried ALA for some time (3 rounds at 12.5mg) and could not tolerate it - was dysfunctional for basic daily chores. > > My hair test shows that I have overactive adrenals. I seem to have episodes of extreme tiredness. I am generally highly strung, anxious, worrisome and have all symptoms associated with overstressed adrenals. This is also coupled with periods of exhaustion, to the point that I can never rely on my inconsitant energy levels. These symptoms have been here since childhood (since my first amalgam at 11years). I'm now 45 years > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Are you using adrenal cortex extract or just adrenal glandular? And if so, how much or how often per day are you taking it. I am treating fried adrenals in myself and my kid but we use the cortex extract. Andy had said on MA that the glandular is not as effective as the cortex extract. You also need to take it more than once a day. Some need it twice, some three times, and some four times. Just a thought that might help. You can also do the saliva test to see which hormones are out of whack. But your symptoms fit what we were seeing with adrenal fatigue. > > Dear List, > > I have been chelating for 7 months now on DMSA 33mg abut round 18. I tried ALA for some time (3 rounds at 12.5mg) and could not tolerate it - was dysfunctional for basic daily chores. > > My hair test shows that I have overactive adrenals. I seem to have episodes of extreme tiredness. I am generally highly strung, anxious, worrisome and have all symptoms associated with overstressed adrenals. This is also coupled with periods of exhaustion, to the point that I can never rely on my inconsitant energy levels. These symptoms have been here since childhood (since my first amalgam at 11years). I'm now 45 years > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 I just looked at your hair test. have you thought of supplementing with lithium orotate for a bit? Some of your irritation can be due to abnormally low lithium. Which happens with mercury poisoning. Bot myself and my mercury kid showed up with no lithium as well. We supplement it only a few times a week. We are talking about the natural lithium you get at the HFS. This is not the same as the prescription. It is not harmful to use, and it only replaces what you need anyway. should look at this hair test. She is good with interpreting them. > > Dear List, > > I have been chelating for 7 months now on DMSA 33mg abut round 18. I tried ALA for some time (3 rounds at 12.5mg) and could not tolerate it - was dysfunctional for basic daily chores. > > My hair test shows that I have overactive adrenals. I seem to have episodes of extreme tiredness. I am generally highly strung, anxious, worrisome and have all symptoms associated with overstressed adrenals. This is also coupled with periods of exhaustion, to the point that I can never rely on my inconsitant energy levels. These symptoms have been here since childhood (since my first amalgam at 11years). I'm now 45 years > > I am doing well on chelation (improved general wel-being), but really would like to give my adrenals a break. I am unable to obtain a Cortisol Saliva test at the moment to check the levels. I was considering doing a Hydrocortisone taper as Andy suggest for 5 days every few months, just to try and give the adrenals the message that they can calm down, rather than low-dose long-term cortisol. I know I'm very close to burnout and have no support if this happens, so I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 I just looked at your hair test. have you thought of supplementing with lithium orotate for a bit? Some of your irritation can be due to abnormally low lithium. Which happens with mercury poisoning. Bot myself and my mercury kid showed up with no lithium as well. We supplement it only a few times a week. We are talking about the natural lithium you get at the HFS. This is not the same as the prescription. It is not harmful to use, and it only replaces what you need anyway. should look at this hair test. She is good with interpreting them. > > Dear List, > > I have been chelating for 7 months now on DMSA 33mg abut round 18. I tried ALA for some time (3 rounds at 12.5mg) and could not tolerate it - was dysfunctional for basic daily chores. > > My hair test shows that I have overactive adrenals. I seem to have episodes of extreme tiredness. I am generally highly strung, anxious, worrisome and have all symptoms associated with overstressed adrenals. This is also coupled with periods of exhaustion, to the point that I can never rely on my inconsitant energy levels. These symptoms have been here since childhood (since my first amalgam at 11years). I'm now 45 years > > I am doing well on chelation (improved general wel-being), but really would like to give my adrenals a break. I am unable to obtain a Cortisol Saliva test at the moment to check the levels. I was considering doing a Hydrocortisone taper as Andy suggest for 5 days every few months, just to try and give the adrenals the message that they can calm down, rather than low-dose long-term cortisol. I know I'm very close to burnout and have no support if this happens, so I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 I just looked at your hair test. have you thought of supplementing with lithium orotate for a bit? Some of your irritation can be due to abnormally low lithium. Which happens with mercury poisoning. Bot myself and my mercury kid showed up with no lithium as well. We supplement it only a few times a week. We are talking about the natural lithium you get at the HFS. This is not the same as the prescription. It is not harmful to use, and it only replaces what you need anyway. should look at this hair test. She is good with interpreting them. > > Dear List, > > I have been chelating for 7 months now on DMSA 33mg abut round 18. I tried ALA for some time (3 rounds at 12.5mg) and could not tolerate it - was dysfunctional for basic daily chores. > > My hair test shows that I have overactive adrenals. I seem to have episodes of extreme tiredness. I am generally highly strung, anxious, worrisome and have all symptoms associated with overstressed adrenals. This is also coupled with periods of exhaustion, to the point that I can never rely on my inconsitant energy levels. These symptoms have been here since childhood (since my first amalgam at 11years). I'm now 45 years > > I am doing well on chelation (improved general wel-being), but really would like to give my adrenals a break. I am unable to obtain a Cortisol Saliva test at the moment to check the levels. I was considering doing a Hydrocortisone taper as Andy suggest for 5 days every few months, just to try and give the adrenals the message that they can calm down, rather than low-dose long-term cortisol. I know I'm very close to burnout and have no support if this happens, so I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 > Well, the title of this thread says something. Over the years leading > to complete adrenal burnout there will be periods of time when the > person can respond to stress and during those times the adrenals will > be over active. The over activity may be a big factor that eventually > leads to burnout. I think Kai is telling us that his adrenals were > over active at times and are now heading for burnout. Dean: Yes, that is it, I'm sure. Periods of 'adrenal alarm' leading to eventual adrenal collapse if the warning signs are ignored, or interventions not made. > >the fatigue, crashes and inconsistent > > energy. > Those three are hypoadrenal for sure. Dean: Right. > > There is no sleep disturbance, except he can sleep for long and deep > > without waking and is often tired. No issues with eating protein, no > > digestive disturbances or low blood pressure, or shaking with stress > etc. > Of ALL of those you mention above the ONLY one that I have and have > had is the low blood pressure. I am the ultimate adrenal burnout > case........ Dean: I see. I though that insomnia was one of the definites for low cortisol levels from adrenal exhaustion. I also though frequent infections were common, but I guess you can't have all the symptoms. > I couldn't handle a lot of stress, but I did deal with stressful > situations quite well until I hit " total burnout " about 5 or 6 years > ago. (Keep in mind that my biggest mercury exposures were 30 years > ago and my adrenals have been going steadily down since then). Dean; I also believe we will become somewhat addicted to stress-ful events and draw ourselves to them unconsciously to give the adrenals the signal to make more stress hormones because we are low in them. A self-defeating practice ultimately. > > Had years of bulging eyes > The bulging eyes is a symptom of hyper thyroid. There's one > difference between me and Kai. Kai may have had a tendency to > hyperthyroidism (I don't know for sure, it would have to be checked > with blood tests) whereas I have been hypothyroid. > Thyroid tests may be one thing for Kai to consider. Dean: I think you have got it right again . Hyperthyroid mixed with hypo-adrenal. And possibly even an element of hyperparathyroidism that could be messing with the Calcium levels on test making it a little confusing? > For sure Kai is producing lots of adrenaline. Many individuals can > produce lots of adrenaline and very little cortisol. My cortisol is > mostly coming from Cortef these days but I get torrents of adrenaline > at times. > Maybe it is hyperthyroidism and hyper adrenaline production that has > confused the issue here. Dean : that would be my guess too based on what I've learned so far. There are definite hyperthyroid issues here. I hope Kai will elaborate when he gets online again. > OK, so the term " overactive adrenals " is coming from Dr. Eck, right? Dean: Yes. Hyperactive and overactive being the same thing. Dr Eck worked for years with Dr and there are some fascinating articles here http://www.arltma.com/ There work correlates well with Andy's and they go into Adrenal issues to greater depth which is why it interested me in this confusing Hair Test. They are insistent that hair not be washed which inn their opinion erratically changes Ca, Mg, Na and K levels and they would say that is why this test is confusing. Dean: Thanks very much for your thoughtful replies , I feel I understand this a lot better. In summary: We are most often dealing with hypo-adrenal and hypo-thyroid symptoms. Thereafter, sometimes it is hypo-adrenal mixed with hyperthyroid symptoms. During periods of acute stress the body will stimulate the adrenals creating hyper-adrenal periods where Na and K levels rise to combat stress. That is of course if the adrenals are able to meet demand, otherwise an adrenal crash ensues. > > I'm convinced that Andy has the hair test interpretation right because > I have been following tests and most everything he says fits the > tests. This is the first time I have heard of Eck, and wouldn't > necessarily go along with everything he says or not. Isn't Eck using > unwashed hair and DDI samples are washed? so we can't really use his > work anyway? Dean: Yes. But there is a lot of overlap, and Andy does refer to Dr 's book. I brought it into this discussion because of the somewhat confusing nature of this tests > The sodium level of 500 on Kai's test is fairly incredible too. Yes, That could again point to excessive aldosterone which causes Sodium retention. > The words that Kai is using in his description says hypo adrenal: > " dysfunctional for basic daily chores. > episodes of extreme tiredness. > highly strung, anxious, worrisome > periods of exhaustion > inconsistent energy levels " > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/frequent-dose-chelation/message/13392 Thanks . Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 > Well, the title of this thread says something. Over the years leading > to complete adrenal burnout there will be periods of time when the > person can respond to stress and during those times the adrenals will > be over active. The over activity may be a big factor that eventually > leads to burnout. I think Kai is telling us that his adrenals were > over active at times and are now heading for burnout. Dean: Yes, that is it, I'm sure. Periods of 'adrenal alarm' leading to eventual adrenal collapse if the warning signs are ignored, or interventions not made. > >the fatigue, crashes and inconsistent > > energy. > Those three are hypoadrenal for sure. Dean: Right. > > There is no sleep disturbance, except he can sleep for long and deep > > without waking and is often tired. No issues with eating protein, no > > digestive disturbances or low blood pressure, or shaking with stress > etc. > Of ALL of those you mention above the ONLY one that I have and have > had is the low blood pressure. I am the ultimate adrenal burnout > case........ Dean: I see. I though that insomnia was one of the definites for low cortisol levels from adrenal exhaustion. I also though frequent infections were common, but I guess you can't have all the symptoms. > I couldn't handle a lot of stress, but I did deal with stressful > situations quite well until I hit " total burnout " about 5 or 6 years > ago. (Keep in mind that my biggest mercury exposures were 30 years > ago and my adrenals have been going steadily down since then). Dean; I also believe we will become somewhat addicted to stress-ful events and draw ourselves to them unconsciously to give the adrenals the signal to make more stress hormones because we are low in them. A self-defeating practice ultimately. > > Had years of bulging eyes > The bulging eyes is a symptom of hyper thyroid. There's one > difference between me and Kai. Kai may have had a tendency to > hyperthyroidism (I don't know for sure, it would have to be checked > with blood tests) whereas I have been hypothyroid. > Thyroid tests may be one thing for Kai to consider. Dean: I think you have got it right again . Hyperthyroid mixed with hypo-adrenal. And possibly even an element of hyperparathyroidism that could be messing with the Calcium levels on test making it a little confusing? > For sure Kai is producing lots of adrenaline. Many individuals can > produce lots of adrenaline and very little cortisol. My cortisol is > mostly coming from Cortef these days but I get torrents of adrenaline > at times. > Maybe it is hyperthyroidism and hyper adrenaline production that has > confused the issue here. Dean : that would be my guess too based on what I've learned so far. There are definite hyperthyroid issues here. I hope Kai will elaborate when he gets online again. > OK, so the term " overactive adrenals " is coming from Dr. Eck, right? Dean: Yes. Hyperactive and overactive being the same thing. Dr Eck worked for years with Dr and there are some fascinating articles here http://www.arltma.com/ There work correlates well with Andy's and they go into Adrenal issues to greater depth which is why it interested me in this confusing Hair Test. They are insistent that hair not be washed which inn their opinion erratically changes Ca, Mg, Na and K levels and they would say that is why this test is confusing. Dean: Thanks very much for your thoughtful replies , I feel I understand this a lot better. In summary: We are most often dealing with hypo-adrenal and hypo-thyroid symptoms. Thereafter, sometimes it is hypo-adrenal mixed with hyperthyroid symptoms. During periods of acute stress the body will stimulate the adrenals creating hyper-adrenal periods where Na and K levels rise to combat stress. That is of course if the adrenals are able to meet demand, otherwise an adrenal crash ensues. > > I'm convinced that Andy has the hair test interpretation right because > I have been following tests and most everything he says fits the > tests. This is the first time I have heard of Eck, and wouldn't > necessarily go along with everything he says or not. Isn't Eck using > unwashed hair and DDI samples are washed? so we can't really use his > work anyway? Dean: Yes. But there is a lot of overlap, and Andy does refer to Dr 's book. I brought it into this discussion because of the somewhat confusing nature of this tests > The sodium level of 500 on Kai's test is fairly incredible too. Yes, That could again point to excessive aldosterone which causes Sodium retention. > The words that Kai is using in his description says hypo adrenal: > " dysfunctional for basic daily chores. > episodes of extreme tiredness. > highly strung, anxious, worrisome > periods of exhaustion > inconsistent energy levels " > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/frequent-dose-chelation/message/13392 Thanks . Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 > Well, the title of this thread says something. Over the years leading > to complete adrenal burnout there will be periods of time when the > person can respond to stress and during those times the adrenals will > be over active. The over activity may be a big factor that eventually > leads to burnout. I think Kai is telling us that his adrenals were > over active at times and are now heading for burnout. Dean: Yes, that is it, I'm sure. Periods of 'adrenal alarm' leading to eventual adrenal collapse if the warning signs are ignored, or interventions not made. > >the fatigue, crashes and inconsistent > > energy. > Those three are hypoadrenal for sure. Dean: Right. > > There is no sleep disturbance, except he can sleep for long and deep > > without waking and is often tired. No issues with eating protein, no > > digestive disturbances or low blood pressure, or shaking with stress > etc. > Of ALL of those you mention above the ONLY one that I have and have > had is the low blood pressure. I am the ultimate adrenal burnout > case........ Dean: I see. I though that insomnia was one of the definites for low cortisol levels from adrenal exhaustion. I also though frequent infections were common, but I guess you can't have all the symptoms. > I couldn't handle a lot of stress, but I did deal with stressful > situations quite well until I hit " total burnout " about 5 or 6 years > ago. (Keep in mind that my biggest mercury exposures were 30 years > ago and my adrenals have been going steadily down since then). Dean; I also believe we will become somewhat addicted to stress-ful events and draw ourselves to them unconsciously to give the adrenals the signal to make more stress hormones because we are low in them. A self-defeating practice ultimately. > > Had years of bulging eyes > The bulging eyes is a symptom of hyper thyroid. There's one > difference between me and Kai. Kai may have had a tendency to > hyperthyroidism (I don't know for sure, it would have to be checked > with blood tests) whereas I have been hypothyroid. > Thyroid tests may be one thing for Kai to consider. Dean: I think you have got it right again . Hyperthyroid mixed with hypo-adrenal. And possibly even an element of hyperparathyroidism that could be messing with the Calcium levels on test making it a little confusing? > For sure Kai is producing lots of adrenaline. Many individuals can > produce lots of adrenaline and very little cortisol. My cortisol is > mostly coming from Cortef these days but I get torrents of adrenaline > at times. > Maybe it is hyperthyroidism and hyper adrenaline production that has > confused the issue here. Dean : that would be my guess too based on what I've learned so far. There are definite hyperthyroid issues here. I hope Kai will elaborate when he gets online again. > OK, so the term " overactive adrenals " is coming from Dr. Eck, right? Dean: Yes. Hyperactive and overactive being the same thing. Dr Eck worked for years with Dr and there are some fascinating articles here http://www.arltma.com/ There work correlates well with Andy's and they go into Adrenal issues to greater depth which is why it interested me in this confusing Hair Test. They are insistent that hair not be washed which inn their opinion erratically changes Ca, Mg, Na and K levels and they would say that is why this test is confusing. Dean: Thanks very much for your thoughtful replies , I feel I understand this a lot better. In summary: We are most often dealing with hypo-adrenal and hypo-thyroid symptoms. Thereafter, sometimes it is hypo-adrenal mixed with hyperthyroid symptoms. During periods of acute stress the body will stimulate the adrenals creating hyper-adrenal periods where Na and K levels rise to combat stress. That is of course if the adrenals are able to meet demand, otherwise an adrenal crash ensues. > > I'm convinced that Andy has the hair test interpretation right because > I have been following tests and most everything he says fits the > tests. This is the first time I have heard of Eck, and wouldn't > necessarily go along with everything he says or not. Isn't Eck using > unwashed hair and DDI samples are washed? so we can't really use his > work anyway? Dean: Yes. But there is a lot of overlap, and Andy does refer to Dr 's book. I brought it into this discussion because of the somewhat confusing nature of this tests > The sodium level of 500 on Kai's test is fairly incredible too. Yes, That could again point to excessive aldosterone which causes Sodium retention. > The words that Kai is using in his description says hypo adrenal: > " dysfunctional for basic daily chores. > episodes of extreme tiredness. > highly strung, anxious, worrisome > periods of exhaustion > inconsistent energy levels " > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/frequent-dose-chelation/message/13392 Thanks . Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 > > > > There is no sleep disturbance, except he can sleep for long and deep > > > without waking and is often tired. No issues with eating protein, no > > > digestive disturbances or low blood pressure, or shaking with stress > > etc. > > Of ALL of those you mention above the ONLY one that I have and have > > had is the low blood pressure. I am the ultimate adrenal burnout > > case........ > > Dean: I see. I though that insomnia was one of the definites for low > cortisol levels from adrenal exhaustion. I also though frequent infections > were common, but I guess you can't have all the symptoms. > Apparently insomnia is common with adrenal insufficiency. It is one symptom I have never, ever had a problem with. I have had the problem with frequent infections and difficulty shaking infections. I have reached the point where I can not respond to stress at all (although I have discovered taking extra cortef helps) but I don't shake with stress - I get emotional, can't think, and then panic. If you look at this chapter, these authors list the frequency of various symptoms in 200 people with what they call hypoadrenocorticism. http://www.fred.net/slowup/tint01.html J btw, I finally have my hair test scanned and will mail it to you, just for fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 > > > > There is no sleep disturbance, except he can sleep for long and deep > > > without waking and is often tired. No issues with eating protein, no > > > digestive disturbances or low blood pressure, or shaking with stress > > etc. > > Of ALL of those you mention above the ONLY one that I have and have > > had is the low blood pressure. I am the ultimate adrenal burnout > > case........ > > Dean: I see. I though that insomnia was one of the definites for low > cortisol levels from adrenal exhaustion. I also though frequent infections > were common, but I guess you can't have all the symptoms. > Apparently insomnia is common with adrenal insufficiency. It is one symptom I have never, ever had a problem with. I have had the problem with frequent infections and difficulty shaking infections. I have reached the point where I can not respond to stress at all (although I have discovered taking extra cortef helps) but I don't shake with stress - I get emotional, can't think, and then panic. If you look at this chapter, these authors list the frequency of various symptoms in 200 people with what they call hypoadrenocorticism. http://www.fred.net/slowup/tint01.html J btw, I finally have my hair test scanned and will mail it to you, just for fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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