Adrenal Burnout Imminent

[Guest guest]

> >

> > Dr. 's book says the high Na/Mg ratio can go with symptoms

> > of high blood pressure, high blood sugar, irritability, excess

> > stomach acid. .....> The only measure of adrenaline output I know of

> is the Na/Mg hair

> > ratio.

> >

> > --

> ---------------------

> Hi ,

>

> What number is considered a high ratio for Na/Mg. My Na/Mg ratio is

4.57.

>

> Thanks

> H.

Andy gives a range of 1-5 for Na/Mg. You are at the high end

of the range. The symptoms Andy gives for an elevated Na/Mg

are hyperactivity, anxiety, panic, and poor immune function.

The symptoms I mentioned above are from Dr. 's book,

and are based on hair tests from a different lab with different

ref range.

--

[Guest guest]

This has probably all been hashed over already, but a couple comments

below.--------Jackie T.

Re: Re: Adrenal Burnout Imminent

> Another possibility is that maybe your hairtest got mixed up at the

> lab. I have 2 tests from DDI, one that fits me and one that totally

> doesn't. The only reasonable conclusion is that DDI goofed with the

> one that doesn't. Didn't Dean say that most of the people in SA had

> highish Uranium? and on this test yours is way low.... hmmmmm

Everybody that has had a test in South Africa so far has been low in

selenium, germanium and molybdenum. It seems our soils are deficient in

these minerals. It has been known that we have almost no magnesium and zinc

either. Perhaps one of the reasons for the HIV epidemic. We do not have

volcanic soils here that are rich in nutrients.

Kai's test does fit him I think. He seems to be running on a treadmill of

life with the adrenals pumping out adrenaline, DHEA and possibly even too

much cortisol. The suggestion of taking cortisol to calm 'hyper-active'

adrenals is interesting. I thought it was only used when you are

'hypo-adrenal' initially. But the cortisol would have a bio-feedback

mechanism to slow production from the adrenals if used in sufficient

quantities, perhaps higher that physiological doses. I wonder if this is an

appropriate case for a taper. Does mention tapers? Or use the low

dose and see how he gets on.

------------I have read most of Jefferies book, The Safe Uses of Cortisol, and

he doesn't mention tapers. He only talks about stress dosing during periods of

stress or illness, in which you temporarily increase your dosage then taper back

down to your maintenance dose. I think that is as close as he gets to

tapers.--------Jackie T.

Kai has said he has no problem handling stressful situation. He spikes his

adrenaline very high (his Na/Mg ration is 13.88 which is super-high

indicating massive adrenaline output), but his cortisol levels seems to be

able to match it, at least at the time of the stressful event. No low blood

sugar issues, no shaking etc. He has very deep sleep, but the highs come

with consistent crashes. He also craves sugar and coffee.

----------I recognize some of this, highs then crashing, and at times being

able to inhale coffee, like I couldn't get enough of it. You go through stages

of adrenal fatigue, and this sounds like some of the earlier ones. Go to the

link below, and at the bottom of the pages, click on the stages 1 thru 7. Very

interesting. If you do testing through the canaryclub.org, through

Diagnos-Techs, they will tell you what stage you are in. I haven't done it yet,

but it would be interesting to do. -------Jackie

http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%20Normal.html

There is a

possibility of Hashimotos, with his thyroid having alternating periods of

hyper vs. hypo.

---------This also sounds like me. I wonder if the Hashi's has any effect on

the hair test not clearly showing adrenal problems?-------Jackie

He also has a reddening of the skin on the throat area,

which is something I have seen with people who have hair tests in indicating

hyper-active adrenals (as is a stress situation). Does anybody else have

this reddening?

----------Is it red all the time, or comes and goes like a rash?------Jackie

He is lean and muscular, and cold intolerant. I hope I've got this right

Kai?

Dean

[Guest guest]

This has probably all been hashed over already, but a couple comments

below.--------Jackie T.

Re: Re: Adrenal Burnout Imminent

> Another possibility is that maybe your hairtest got mixed up at the

> lab. I have 2 tests from DDI, one that fits me and one that totally

> doesn't. The only reasonable conclusion is that DDI goofed with the

> one that doesn't. Didn't Dean say that most of the people in SA had

> highish Uranium? and on this test yours is way low.... hmmmmm

Everybody that has had a test in South Africa so far has been low in

selenium, germanium and molybdenum. It seems our soils are deficient in

these minerals. It has been known that we have almost no magnesium and zinc

either. Perhaps one of the reasons for the HIV epidemic. We do not have

volcanic soils here that are rich in nutrients.

Kai's test does fit him I think. He seems to be running on a treadmill of

life with the adrenals pumping out adrenaline, DHEA and possibly even too

much cortisol. The suggestion of taking cortisol to calm 'hyper-active'

adrenals is interesting. I thought it was only used when you are

'hypo-adrenal' initially. But the cortisol would have a bio-feedback

mechanism to slow production from the adrenals if used in sufficient

quantities, perhaps higher that physiological doses. I wonder if this is an

appropriate case for a taper. Does mention tapers? Or use the low

dose and see how he gets on.

------------I have read most of Jefferies book, The Safe Uses of Cortisol, and

he doesn't mention tapers. He only talks about stress dosing during periods of

stress or illness, in which you temporarily increase your dosage then taper back

down to your maintenance dose. I think that is as close as he gets to

tapers.--------Jackie T.

Kai has said he has no problem handling stressful situation. He spikes his

adrenaline very high (his Na/Mg ration is 13.88 which is super-high

indicating massive adrenaline output), but his cortisol levels seems to be

able to match it, at least at the time of the stressful event. No low blood

sugar issues, no shaking etc. He has very deep sleep, but the highs come

with consistent crashes. He also craves sugar and coffee.

----------I recognize some of this, highs then crashing, and at times being

able to inhale coffee, like I couldn't get enough of it. You go through stages

of adrenal fatigue, and this sounds like some of the earlier ones. Go to the

link below, and at the bottom of the pages, click on the stages 1 thru 7. Very

interesting. If you do testing through the canaryclub.org, through

Diagnos-Techs, they will tell you what stage you are in. I haven't done it yet,

but it would be interesting to do. -------Jackie

http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%20Normal.html

There is a

possibility of Hashimotos, with his thyroid having alternating periods of

hyper vs. hypo.

---------This also sounds like me. I wonder if the Hashi's has any effect on

the hair test not clearly showing adrenal problems?-------Jackie

He also has a reddening of the skin on the throat area,

which is something I have seen with people who have hair tests in indicating

hyper-active adrenals (as is a stress situation). Does anybody else have

this reddening?

----------Is it red all the time, or comes and goes like a rash?------Jackie

He is lean and muscular, and cold intolerant. I hope I've got this right

Kai?

Dean

[Guest guest]

This has probably all been hashed over already, but a couple comments

below.--------Jackie T.

Re: Re: Adrenal Burnout Imminent

> Another possibility is that maybe your hairtest got mixed up at the

> lab. I have 2 tests from DDI, one that fits me and one that totally

> doesn't. The only reasonable conclusion is that DDI goofed with the

> one that doesn't. Didn't Dean say that most of the people in SA had

> highish Uranium? and on this test yours is way low.... hmmmmm

Everybody that has had a test in South Africa so far has been low in

selenium, germanium and molybdenum. It seems our soils are deficient in

these minerals. It has been known that we have almost no magnesium and zinc

either. Perhaps one of the reasons for the HIV epidemic. We do not have

volcanic soils here that are rich in nutrients.

Kai's test does fit him I think. He seems to be running on a treadmill of

life with the adrenals pumping out adrenaline, DHEA and possibly even too

much cortisol. The suggestion of taking cortisol to calm 'hyper-active'

adrenals is interesting. I thought it was only used when you are

'hypo-adrenal' initially. But the cortisol would have a bio-feedback

mechanism to slow production from the adrenals if used in sufficient

quantities, perhaps higher that physiological doses. I wonder if this is an

appropriate case for a taper. Does mention tapers? Or use the low

dose and see how he gets on.

------------I have read most of Jefferies book, The Safe Uses of Cortisol, and

he doesn't mention tapers. He only talks about stress dosing during periods of

stress or illness, in which you temporarily increase your dosage then taper back

down to your maintenance dose. I think that is as close as he gets to

tapers.--------Jackie T.

Kai has said he has no problem handling stressful situation. He spikes his

adrenaline very high (his Na/Mg ration is 13.88 which is super-high

indicating massive adrenaline output), but his cortisol levels seems to be

able to match it, at least at the time of the stressful event. No low blood

sugar issues, no shaking etc. He has very deep sleep, but the highs come

with consistent crashes. He also craves sugar and coffee.

----------I recognize some of this, highs then crashing, and at times being

able to inhale coffee, like I couldn't get enough of it. You go through stages

of adrenal fatigue, and this sounds like some of the earlier ones. Go to the

link below, and at the bottom of the pages, click on the stages 1 thru 7. Very

interesting. If you do testing through the canaryclub.org, through

Diagnos-Techs, they will tell you what stage you are in. I haven't done it yet,

but it would be interesting to do. -------Jackie

http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%20Normal.html

There is a

possibility of Hashimotos, with his thyroid having alternating periods of

hyper vs. hypo.

---------This also sounds like me. I wonder if the Hashi's has any effect on

the hair test not clearly showing adrenal problems?-------Jackie

He also has a reddening of the skin on the throat area,

which is something I have seen with people who have hair tests in indicating

hyper-active adrenals (as is a stress situation). Does anybody else have

this reddening?

----------Is it red all the time, or comes and goes like a rash?------Jackie

He is lean and muscular, and cold intolerant. I hope I've got this right

Kai?

Dean

[Guest guest]

This has probably all been hashed over already, but a couple comments

below.--------Jackie T.

> No please, hash it over again and again :-) Thank you - all the help is

appreciated.

------------I have read most of Jefferies book, The Safe Uses of Cortisol, and

he doesn't mention tapers. He only talks about stress dosing during periods of

stress or illness, in which you temporarily increase your dosage then taper back

down to your maintenance dose. I think that is as close as he gets to

tapers.--------Jackie T.

> I'm considering doing a hydrocortisone taper (we can't get prednisolone here)

so I will have to times each prednisolone dose by four to get the appropriate

amount (Prednisolone is four times as strong as HC). Andy mentions to do a taper

every 2-3 months to treat fatigue during chelation. Fatigue is my greatest issue

now. I will report back on its effect. I don't know why I just have a sense I

need to start with this, and may in fact end the taper on a low dose and keep

with it for some time. How long does Jeffries suggets you continue cortisol for?

Can you do a few months and see how you doing?

----------I recognize some of this, highs then crashing, and at times being able

to inhale coffee, like I couldn't get enough of it. You go through stages of

adrenal fatigue, and this sounds like some of the earlier ones. Go to the link

below, and at the bottom of the pages, click on the stages 1 thru 7. Very

interesting. If you do testing through the canaryclub.org, through

Diagnos-Techs, they will tell you what stage you are in. I haven't done it yet,

but it would be interesting to do. -------Jackie

http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%20Normal.html

>>>> Wow, Thank you. Now this makes sense to me. I believe I'm at the end of my

resistance phase and if I don't do something fast will be in exhaustion phase

(if I'm not there already).

Does Jeffries dose according to this, or mention these stages in his book?

---------This also sounds like me. I wonder if the Hashi's has any effect on the

hair test not clearly showing adrenal problems?-------Jackie

>>> That is interesting. I don't know either.

He also has a reddening of the skin on the throat area,

which is something I have seen with people who have hair tests in indicating

hyper-active adrenals (as is a stress situation). Does anybody else have

this reddening?

----------Is it red all the time, or comes and goes like a rash?------Jackie

>>>>It seems to be an up and down affair. It was better with DMSA in earlier

rounds, then it worsens , then gets better. It is always there but the intestity

of it changes. If you have ever taken NIACIN and seen a flushing of the skin,

that is eactly what it is like. All these years I thought it was the sun. I see

it in others that have hyper-thryoid symptoms.

Kai

[Guest guest]

This has probably all been hashed over already, but a couple comments

below.--------Jackie T.

> No please, hash it over again and again :-) Thank you - all the help is

appreciated.

------------I have read most of Jefferies book, The Safe Uses of Cortisol, and

he doesn't mention tapers. He only talks about stress dosing during periods of

stress or illness, in which you temporarily increase your dosage then taper back

down to your maintenance dose. I think that is as close as he gets to

tapers.--------Jackie T.

> I'm considering doing a hydrocortisone taper (we can't get prednisolone here)

so I will have to times each prednisolone dose by four to get the appropriate

amount (Prednisolone is four times as strong as HC). Andy mentions to do a taper

every 2-3 months to treat fatigue during chelation. Fatigue is my greatest issue

now. I will report back on its effect. I don't know why I just have a sense I

need to start with this, and may in fact end the taper on a low dose and keep

with it for some time. How long does Jeffries suggets you continue cortisol for?

Can you do a few months and see how you doing?

----------I recognize some of this, highs then crashing, and at times being able

to inhale coffee, like I couldn't get enough of it. You go through stages of

adrenal fatigue, and this sounds like some of the earlier ones. Go to the link

below, and at the bottom of the pages, click on the stages 1 thru 7. Very

interesting. If you do testing through the canaryclub.org, through

Diagnos-Techs, they will tell you what stage you are in. I haven't done it yet,

but it would be interesting to do. -------Jackie

http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%20Normal.html

>>>> Wow, Thank you. Now this makes sense to me. I believe I'm at the end of my

resistance phase and if I don't do something fast will be in exhaustion phase

(if I'm not there already).

Does Jeffries dose according to this, or mention these stages in his book?

---------This also sounds like me. I wonder if the Hashi's has any effect on the

hair test not clearly showing adrenal problems?-------Jackie

>>> That is interesting. I don't know either.

He also has a reddening of the skin on the throat area,

which is something I have seen with people who have hair tests in indicating

hyper-active adrenals (as is a stress situation). Does anybody else have

this reddening?

----------Is it red all the time, or comes and goes like a rash?------Jackie

>>>>It seems to be an up and down affair. It was better with DMSA in earlier

rounds, then it worsens , then gets better. It is always there but the intestity

of it changes. If you have ever taken NIACIN and seen a flushing of the skin,

that is eactly what it is like. All these years I thought it was the sun. I see

it in others that have hyper-thryoid symptoms.

Kai

[Guest guest]

More below, using ========Jackie

Re: Re: Adrenal Burnout Imminent

This has probably all been hashed over already, but a couple comments

below.--------Jackie T.

> No please, hash it over again and again :-) Thank you - all the help is

appreciated.

=======Alot of what I have learned has come from these boards, and the experts

like . She was the one who recommended I read Jefferies book. Thank you

, and all who have helped along the way! Listen to these people, they know

what they are talking about.----------Jackie

------------I have read most of Jefferies book, The Safe Uses of Cortisol, and

he doesn't mention tapers. He only talks about stress dosing during periods of

stress or illness, in which you temporarily increase your dosage then taper back

down to your maintenance dose. I think that is as close as he gets to

tapers.--------Jackie T.

> I'm considering doing a hydrocortisone taper (we can't get prednisolone

here) so I will have to times each prednisolone dose by four to get the

appropriate amount (Prednisolone is four times as strong as HC). Andy mentions

to do a taper every 2-3 months to treat fatigue during chelation. Fatigue is my

greatest issue now. I will report back on its effect. I don't know why I just

have a sense I need to start with this, and may in fact end the taper on a low

dose and keep with it for some time. How long does Jeffries suggets you continue

cortisol for? Can you do a few months and see how you doing?

=========Jefferies seems to promote using 5mg 4X a day, in most cases. He

feels that 20mg/day is a physiological dose, and will not totally shut down your

adrenals, just give them a rest so they can repair. Some people's doses are a

little higher or lower, and I think the average output is 20-30mg of cortisol

from your adrenals in an unstressed state/day. The length of time on cortisol

seems to be an individual thing, and you should taper off of it slowly, do not

go cold turkey! Jefferies gives many case studies, some wean off of it, some

had to stay on it, some tried weaning off and had to restart, lots of different

situations.-------Jackie

----------I recognize some of this, highs then crashing, and at times being

able to inhale coffee, like I couldn't get enough of it. You go through stages

of adrenal fatigue, and this sounds like some of the earlier ones. Go to the

link below, and at the bottom of the pages, click on the stages 1 thru 7. Very

interesting. If you do testing through the canaryclub.org, through

Diagnos-Techs, they will tell you what stage you are in. I haven't done it yet,

but it would be interesting to do. -------Jackie

http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%20Normal.html

>>>> Wow, Thank you. Now this makes sense to me. I believe I'm at the end of

my resistance phase and if I don't do something fast will be in exhaustion phase

(if I'm not there already).

=========Yes, I think its important for people to understand that there are

different stages to this, and different symptoms. You're still performing in

the earlier stages, and probably don't realize you have a problem. I sure was

there. I had a 4X/day cortisol test done earlier this year, not through this

lab though, and my cortisol was pretty flat/low all day. So I think I'm at

least a stage 4, if not farther. Wish I would have understood all this alot

sooner, and/or found a doctor that did.------Jackie

Does Jeffries dose according to this, or mention these stages in his book?

========No, Jefferies doesn't mention these stages. His book/work was based

on many years of his own clinical studies with patients he treated. The link

mentions which doctor uses these stages, I don't remember the name.-------Jackie

---------This also sounds like me. I wonder if the Hashi's has any effect on

the hair test not clearly showing adrenal problems?-------Jackie

>>> That is interesting. I don't know either.

=========I think I mentioned this in another post, that my hair test didn't

clearly show the adrenal problems signs, and I don't know if anybody has an

explanation for that, or maybe its just not full-proof. So don't let one thing

like a test convince you you don't have a certain problem or not. And if you

have a mixture of adrenal and thyroid problems/symptoms, it can get more

confusing. Dr. Rind's website has alot of good info on this, and even has a

chart to help determine whether your symptoms are adrenal only, thyroid only, or

a mixture of the two. Here's the link. Lots of good reading there. But just

as a note, one of our members went to see him, and wasn't happy with the

results, so I wouldn't follow his supplement advice.-----Jackie

http://www.drrind.com/scorecardmatrix.asp

Here is another link about adrenal insufficiency.

http://www.drkaslow.com/html/adrenal_insufficiency.html

e also has a reddening of the skin on the throat area,

which is something I have seen with people who have hair tests in indicating

hyper-active adrenals (as is a stress situation). Does anybody else have

this reddening?

----------Is it red all the time, or comes and goes like a rash?------Jackie

>>>>It seems to be an up and down affair. It was better with DMSA in earlier

rounds, then it worsens , then gets better. It is always there but the intestity

of it changes. If you have ever taken NIACIN and seen a flushing of the skin,

that is eactly what it is like. All these years I thought it was the sun. I see

it in others that have hyper-thryoid symptoms.

Kai

========I have had some reddening on my neck/throat area that has come and

gone this fall. I was thinking it was maybe a food reaction. I don't remember

if it was during a round or not. I do have Hashi's, but I would say I'm

anything but hyper-thyroid!! So I have no idea if its the same

thing.--------Jackie

Messages in this topic (25) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic

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[Guest guest]

More below, using ========Jackie

Re: Re: Adrenal Burnout Imminent

This has probably all been hashed over already, but a couple comments

below.--------Jackie T.

> No please, hash it over again and again :-) Thank you - all the help is

appreciated.

=======Alot of what I have learned has come from these boards, and the experts

like . She was the one who recommended I read Jefferies book. Thank you

, and all who have helped along the way! Listen to these people, they know

what they are talking about.----------Jackie

------------I have read most of Jefferies book, The Safe Uses of Cortisol, and

he doesn't mention tapers. He only talks about stress dosing during periods of

stress or illness, in which you temporarily increase your dosage then taper back

down to your maintenance dose. I think that is as close as he gets to

tapers.--------Jackie T.

> I'm considering doing a hydrocortisone taper (we can't get prednisolone

here) so I will have to times each prednisolone dose by four to get the

appropriate amount (Prednisolone is four times as strong as HC). Andy mentions

to do a taper every 2-3 months to treat fatigue during chelation. Fatigue is my

greatest issue now. I will report back on its effect. I don't know why I just

have a sense I need to start with this, and may in fact end the taper on a low

dose and keep with it for some time. How long does Jeffries suggets you continue

cortisol for? Can you do a few months and see how you doing?

=========Jefferies seems to promote using 5mg 4X a day, in most cases. He

feels that 20mg/day is a physiological dose, and will not totally shut down your

adrenals, just give them a rest so they can repair. Some people's doses are a

little higher or lower, and I think the average output is 20-30mg of cortisol

from your adrenals in an unstressed state/day. The length of time on cortisol

seems to be an individual thing, and you should taper off of it slowly, do not

go cold turkey! Jefferies gives many case studies, some wean off of it, some

had to stay on it, some tried weaning off and had to restart, lots of different

situations.-------Jackie

----------I recognize some of this, highs then crashing, and at times being

able to inhale coffee, like I couldn't get enough of it. You go through stages

of adrenal fatigue, and this sounds like some of the earlier ones. Go to the

link below, and at the bottom of the pages, click on the stages 1 thru 7. Very

interesting. If you do testing through the canaryclub.org, through

Diagnos-Techs, they will tell you what stage you are in. I haven't done it yet,

but it would be interesting to do. -------Jackie

http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%20Normal.html

>>>> Wow, Thank you. Now this makes sense to me. I believe I'm at the end of

my resistance phase and if I don't do something fast will be in exhaustion phase

(if I'm not there already).

=========Yes, I think its important for people to understand that there are

different stages to this, and different symptoms. You're still performing in

the earlier stages, and probably don't realize you have a problem. I sure was

there. I had a 4X/day cortisol test done earlier this year, not through this

lab though, and my cortisol was pretty flat/low all day. So I think I'm at

least a stage 4, if not farther. Wish I would have understood all this alot

sooner, and/or found a doctor that did.------Jackie

Does Jeffries dose according to this, or mention these stages in his book?

========No, Jefferies doesn't mention these stages. His book/work was based

on many years of his own clinical studies with patients he treated. The link

mentions which doctor uses these stages, I don't remember the name.-------Jackie

---------This also sounds like me. I wonder if the Hashi's has any effect on

the hair test not clearly showing adrenal problems?-------Jackie

>>> That is interesting. I don't know either.

=========I think I mentioned this in another post, that my hair test didn't

clearly show the adrenal problems signs, and I don't know if anybody has an

explanation for that, or maybe its just not full-proof. So don't let one thing

like a test convince you you don't have a certain problem or not. And if you

have a mixture of adrenal and thyroid problems/symptoms, it can get more

confusing. Dr. Rind's website has alot of good info on this, and even has a

chart to help determine whether your symptoms are adrenal only, thyroid only, or

a mixture of the two. Here's the link. Lots of good reading there. But just

as a note, one of our members went to see him, and wasn't happy with the

results, so I wouldn't follow his supplement advice.-----Jackie

http://www.drrind.com/scorecardmatrix.asp

Here is another link about adrenal insufficiency.

http://www.drkaslow.com/html/adrenal_insufficiency.html

e also has a reddening of the skin on the throat area,

which is something I have seen with people who have hair tests in indicating

hyper-active adrenals (as is a stress situation). Does anybody else have

this reddening?

----------Is it red all the time, or comes and goes like a rash?------Jackie

>>>>It seems to be an up and down affair. It was better with DMSA in earlier

rounds, then it worsens , then gets better. It is always there but the intestity

of it changes. If you have ever taken NIACIN and seen a flushing of the skin,

that is eactly what it is like. All these years I thought it was the sun. I see

it in others that have hyper-thryoid symptoms.

Kai

========I have had some reddening on my neck/throat area that has come and

gone this fall. I was thinking it was maybe a food reaction. I don't remember

if it was during a round or not. I do have Hashi's, but I would say I'm

anything but hyper-thyroid!! So I have no idea if its the same

thing.--------Jackie

Messages in this topic (25) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic

Messages | Members

Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)

Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to

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Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity

a.. 10New Members

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[Guest guest]

More below, using ========Jackie

Re: Re: Adrenal Burnout Imminent

This has probably all been hashed over already, but a couple comments

below.--------Jackie T.

> No please, hash it over again and again :-) Thank you - all the help is

appreciated.

=======Alot of what I have learned has come from these boards, and the experts

like . She was the one who recommended I read Jefferies book. Thank you

, and all who have helped along the way! Listen to these people, they know

what they are talking about.----------Jackie

------------I have read most of Jefferies book, The Safe Uses of Cortisol, and

he doesn't mention tapers. He only talks about stress dosing during periods of

stress or illness, in which you temporarily increase your dosage then taper back

down to your maintenance dose. I think that is as close as he gets to

tapers.--------Jackie T.

> I'm considering doing a hydrocortisone taper (we can't get prednisolone

here) so I will have to times each prednisolone dose by four to get the

appropriate amount (Prednisolone is four times as strong as HC). Andy mentions

to do a taper every 2-3 months to treat fatigue during chelation. Fatigue is my

greatest issue now. I will report back on its effect. I don't know why I just

have a sense I need to start with this, and may in fact end the taper on a low

dose and keep with it for some time. How long does Jeffries suggets you continue

cortisol for? Can you do a few months and see how you doing?

=========Jefferies seems to promote using 5mg 4X a day, in most cases. He

feels that 20mg/day is a physiological dose, and will not totally shut down your

adrenals, just give them a rest so they can repair. Some people's doses are a

little higher or lower, and I think the average output is 20-30mg of cortisol

from your adrenals in an unstressed state/day. The length of time on cortisol

seems to be an individual thing, and you should taper off of it slowly, do not

go cold turkey! Jefferies gives many case studies, some wean off of it, some

had to stay on it, some tried weaning off and had to restart, lots of different

situations.-------Jackie

----------I recognize some of this, highs then crashing, and at times being

able to inhale coffee, like I couldn't get enough of it. You go through stages

of adrenal fatigue, and this sounds like some of the earlier ones. Go to the

link below, and at the bottom of the pages, click on the stages 1 thru 7. Very

interesting. If you do testing through the canaryclub.org, through

Diagnos-Techs, they will tell you what stage you are in. I haven't done it yet,

but it would be interesting to do. -------Jackie

http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%20Normal.html

>>>> Wow, Thank you. Now this makes sense to me. I believe I'm at the end of

my resistance phase and if I don't do something fast will be in exhaustion phase

(if I'm not there already).

=========Yes, I think its important for people to understand that there are

different stages to this, and different symptoms. You're still performing in

the earlier stages, and probably don't realize you have a problem. I sure was

there. I had a 4X/day cortisol test done earlier this year, not through this

lab though, and my cortisol was pretty flat/low all day. So I think I'm at

least a stage 4, if not farther. Wish I would have understood all this alot

sooner, and/or found a doctor that did.------Jackie

Does Jeffries dose according to this, or mention these stages in his book?

========No, Jefferies doesn't mention these stages. His book/work was based

on many years of his own clinical studies with patients he treated. The link

mentions which doctor uses these stages, I don't remember the name.-------Jackie

---------This also sounds like me. I wonder if the Hashi's has any effect on

the hair test not clearly showing adrenal problems?-------Jackie

>>> That is interesting. I don't know either.

=========I think I mentioned this in another post, that my hair test didn't

clearly show the adrenal problems signs, and I don't know if anybody has an

explanation for that, or maybe its just not full-proof. So don't let one thing

like a test convince you you don't have a certain problem or not. And if you

have a mixture of adrenal and thyroid problems/symptoms, it can get more

confusing. Dr. Rind's website has alot of good info on this, and even has a

chart to help determine whether your symptoms are adrenal only, thyroid only, or

a mixture of the two. Here's the link. Lots of good reading there. But just

as a note, one of our members went to see him, and wasn't happy with the

results, so I wouldn't follow his supplement advice.-----Jackie

http://www.drrind.com/scorecardmatrix.asp

Here is another link about adrenal insufficiency.

http://www.drkaslow.com/html/adrenal_insufficiency.html

e also has a reddening of the skin on the throat area,

which is something I have seen with people who have hair tests in indicating

hyper-active adrenals (as is a stress situation). Does anybody else have

this reddening?

----------Is it red all the time, or comes and goes like a rash?------Jackie

>>>>It seems to be an up and down affair. It was better with DMSA in earlier

rounds, then it worsens , then gets better. It is always there but the intestity

of it changes. If you have ever taken NIACIN and seen a flushing of the skin,

that is eactly what it is like. All these years I thought it was the sun. I see

it in others that have hyper-thryoid symptoms.

Kai

========I have had some reddening on my neck/throat area that has come and

gone this fall. I was thinking it was maybe a food reaction. I don't remember

if it was during a round or not. I do have Hashi's, but I would say I'm

anything but hyper-thyroid!! So I have no idea if its the same

thing.--------Jackie

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[Guest guest]

> =========I think I mentioned this in another post, that my hair

test didn't clearly show the adrenal problems signs, and I don't know

if anybody has an explanation for that, or maybe its just not

full-proof. So don't let one thing like a test convince you you don't

have a certain problem or not. And if you have a mixture of adrenal

and thyroid problems/symptoms, it can get more confusing. Dr. Rind's

website has alot of good info on this, and even has a chart to help

determine whether your symptoms are adrenal only, thyroid only, or a

mixture of the two. Here's the link. Lots of good reading there.

But just as a note, one of our members went to see him, and wasn't

happy with the results, so I wouldn't follow his supplement

advice.-----Jackie

I don't think Andy ever said that his adrenal/thyroid indicators

would catch *everyone* with adrenal/thyroid problems. In fact

his adrenal/thyroid signs might miss lots of people with these

problems.

My hair test did not show Andy's adrenal signs. However, I

had stage 7 adrenal fatigue according to saliva test several

months before the hair test and I was in worse shape by the

time I did the hair test (because I was under-treating).

I *did* fit Dr. 's signs of adrenal insufficiency:

* Sodium level less than 250

* Potassium level less than 100

* Sodium/potassium ratio less than 2.5:1

* Sodium/magnesium ratio less than 4.17:1

* Calcium/potassium ratio greater than 10:1

His criteria are based on hair samples that are unwashed and

have higher sodium and potassium levels (among others) than

DDI hair tests. However, if your DDI test has sodium and

potassium well below his thresholds, along with somewhat higher

calcium and magnesium (even if not 2 inches apart as Andy

describes) then doing a saliva cortisol test to verify would

probably be worthwhile.

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/adrenal_insufficiency.htm

--

[Guest guest]

> =========I think I mentioned this in another post, that my hair

test didn't clearly show the adrenal problems signs, and I don't know

if anybody has an explanation for that, or maybe its just not

full-proof. So don't let one thing like a test convince you you don't

have a certain problem or not. And if you have a mixture of adrenal

and thyroid problems/symptoms, it can get more confusing. Dr. Rind's

website has alot of good info on this, and even has a chart to help

determine whether your symptoms are adrenal only, thyroid only, or a

mixture of the two. Here's the link. Lots of good reading there.

But just as a note, one of our members went to see him, and wasn't

happy with the results, so I wouldn't follow his supplement

advice.-----Jackie

I don't think Andy ever said that his adrenal/thyroid indicators

would catch *everyone* with adrenal/thyroid problems. In fact

his adrenal/thyroid signs might miss lots of people with these

problems.

My hair test did not show Andy's adrenal signs. However, I

had stage 7 adrenal fatigue according to saliva test several

months before the hair test and I was in worse shape by the

time I did the hair test (because I was under-treating).

I *did* fit Dr. 's signs of adrenal insufficiency:

* Sodium level less than 250

* Potassium level less than 100

* Sodium/potassium ratio less than 2.5:1

* Sodium/magnesium ratio less than 4.17:1

* Calcium/potassium ratio greater than 10:1

His criteria are based on hair samples that are unwashed and

have higher sodium and potassium levels (among others) than

DDI hair tests. However, if your DDI test has sodium and

potassium well below his thresholds, along with somewhat higher

calcium and magnesium (even if not 2 inches apart as Andy

describes) then doing a saliva cortisol test to verify would

probably be worthwhile.

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/adrenal_insufficiency.htm

--

[Guest guest]

> =========I think I mentioned this in another post, that my hair

test didn't clearly show the adrenal problems signs, and I don't know

if anybody has an explanation for that, or maybe its just not

full-proof. So don't let one thing like a test convince you you don't

have a certain problem or not. And if you have a mixture of adrenal

and thyroid problems/symptoms, it can get more confusing. Dr. Rind's

website has alot of good info on this, and even has a chart to help

determine whether your symptoms are adrenal only, thyroid only, or a

mixture of the two. Here's the link. Lots of good reading there.

But just as a note, one of our members went to see him, and wasn't

happy with the results, so I wouldn't follow his supplement

advice.-----Jackie

I don't think Andy ever said that his adrenal/thyroid indicators

would catch *everyone* with adrenal/thyroid problems. In fact

his adrenal/thyroid signs might miss lots of people with these

problems.

My hair test did not show Andy's adrenal signs. However, I

had stage 7 adrenal fatigue according to saliva test several

months before the hair test and I was in worse shape by the

time I did the hair test (because I was under-treating).

I *did* fit Dr. 's signs of adrenal insufficiency:

* Sodium level less than 250

* Potassium level less than 100

* Sodium/potassium ratio less than 2.5:1

* Sodium/magnesium ratio less than 4.17:1

* Calcium/potassium ratio greater than 10:1

His criteria are based on hair samples that are unwashed and

have higher sodium and potassium levels (among others) than

DDI hair tests. However, if your DDI test has sodium and

potassium well below his thresholds, along with somewhat higher

calcium and magnesium (even if not 2 inches apart as Andy

describes) then doing a saliva cortisol test to verify would

probably be worthwhile.

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/adrenal_insufficiency.htm

--

[Guest guest]

The kids and I had " all-low " hair test results, and did not show the " classic "

pattern of

adrenal or thyroid troubles. I'm going to do my saliva test Monday. I haven't

done any

testing on the kids b/c they seem to be doing okay....I think if we had better

insurance I

would go ahead and run the tests though.

in Illinois

>

>

> I don't think Andy ever said that his adrenal/thyroid indicators

> would catch *everyone* with adrenal/thyroid problems. In fact

> his adrenal/thyroid signs might miss lots of people with these

> problems.

>

> My hair test did not show Andy's adrenal signs. However, I

> had stage 7 adrenal fatigue according to saliva test several

> months before the hair test and I was in worse shape by the

> time I did the hair test (because I was under-treating).

> I *did* fit Dr. 's signs of adrenal insufficiency:

>

> * Sodium level less than 250

> * Potassium level less than 100

> * Sodium/potassium ratio less than 2.5:1

> * Sodium/magnesium ratio less than 4.17:1

> * Calcium/potassium ratio greater than 10:1

>

> His criteria are based on hair samples that are unwashed and

> have higher sodium and potassium levels (among others) than

> DDI hair tests. However, if your DDI test has sodium and

> potassium well below his thresholds, along with somewhat higher

> calcium and magnesium (even if not 2 inches apart as Andy

> describes) then doing a saliva cortisol test to verify would

> probably be worthwhile.

>

> http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/adrenal_insufficiency.htm

>

> --

>

[Guest guest]

The kids and I had " all-low " hair test results, and did not show the " classic "

pattern of

adrenal or thyroid troubles. I'm going to do my saliva test Monday. I haven't

done any

testing on the kids b/c they seem to be doing okay....I think if we had better

insurance I

would go ahead and run the tests though.

in Illinois

>

>

> I don't think Andy ever said that his adrenal/thyroid indicators

> would catch *everyone* with adrenal/thyroid problems. In fact

> his adrenal/thyroid signs might miss lots of people with these

> problems.

>

> My hair test did not show Andy's adrenal signs. However, I

> had stage 7 adrenal fatigue according to saliva test several

> months before the hair test and I was in worse shape by the

> time I did the hair test (because I was under-treating).

> I *did* fit Dr. 's signs of adrenal insufficiency:

>

> * Sodium level less than 250

> * Potassium level less than 100

> * Sodium/potassium ratio less than 2.5:1

> * Sodium/magnesium ratio less than 4.17:1

> * Calcium/potassium ratio greater than 10:1

>

> His criteria are based on hair samples that are unwashed and

> have higher sodium and potassium levels (among others) than

> DDI hair tests. However, if your DDI test has sodium and

> potassium well below his thresholds, along with somewhat higher

> calcium and magnesium (even if not 2 inches apart as Andy

> describes) then doing a saliva cortisol test to verify would

> probably be worthwhile.

>

> http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/adrenal_insufficiency.htm

>

> --

>

[Guest guest]

The kids and I had " all-low " hair test results, and did not show the " classic "

pattern of

adrenal or thyroid troubles. I'm going to do my saliva test Monday. I haven't

done any

testing on the kids b/c they seem to be doing okay....I think if we had better

insurance I

would go ahead and run the tests though.

in Illinois

>

>

> I don't think Andy ever said that his adrenal/thyroid indicators

> would catch *everyone* with adrenal/thyroid problems. In fact

> his adrenal/thyroid signs might miss lots of people with these

> problems.

>

> My hair test did not show Andy's adrenal signs. However, I

> had stage 7 adrenal fatigue according to saliva test several

> months before the hair test and I was in worse shape by the

> time I did the hair test (because I was under-treating).

> I *did* fit Dr. 's signs of adrenal insufficiency:

>

> * Sodium level less than 250

> * Potassium level less than 100

> * Sodium/potassium ratio less than 2.5:1

> * Sodium/magnesium ratio less than 4.17:1

> * Calcium/potassium ratio greater than 10:1

>

> His criteria are based on hair samples that are unwashed and

> have higher sodium and potassium levels (among others) than

> DDI hair tests. However, if your DDI test has sodium and

> potassium well below his thresholds, along with somewhat higher

> calcium and magnesium (even if not 2 inches apart as Andy

> describes) then doing a saliva cortisol test to verify would

> probably be worthwhile.

>

> http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/adrenal_insufficiency.htm

>

> --

>

[Guest guest]

> I've managed to totally confuse myself reading these posts, all due to my

> fault, but I need something clarified.

> If you give phosphatidylserine because someone has high cortisol (gains

> weight on stomach, but not arms and legs) does this have anything to do with

> whether you give adrenal cortex extract?

Yes, you would generally withold ACE

>

> Or does effect does ACE have on cortisol?

ACE lets you make cortisol more easily, and other hormones too, some not yet

characterized by science no doubt.

>

> Thanks,

>

[Guest guest]

> I've managed to totally confuse myself reading these posts, all due to my

> fault, but I need something clarified.

> If you give phosphatidylserine because someone has high cortisol (gains

> weight on stomach, but not arms and legs) does this have anything to do with

> whether you give adrenal cortex extract?

Yes, you would generally withold ACE

>

> Or does effect does ACE have on cortisol?

ACE lets you make cortisol more easily, and other hormones too, some not yet

characterized by science no doubt.

>

> Thanks,

>

[Guest guest]

> I've managed to totally confuse myself reading these posts, all due to my

> fault, but I need something clarified.

> If you give phosphatidylserine because someone has high cortisol (gains

> weight on stomach, but not arms and legs) does this have anything to do with

> whether you give adrenal cortex extract?

Yes, you would generally withold ACE

>

> Or does effect does ACE have on cortisol?

ACE lets you make cortisol more easily, and other hormones too, some not yet

characterized by science no doubt.

>

> Thanks,

>

[Guest guest]

Keeping with this subject line that ACE increases cortisol, I found this

passage in Life Extension's Disease Prevention Book;

" At normal levels, cortisol assists in the metabolism of glucose, protein,

and fats. It also has a strong impact on the immune system. At consistently

high levels due to illness or stress, cortisol suppresses immune response

and accelerates the aging of major organ systems. In general, rising levels

of cortisol are associated with physical and severe mental stress. "

They go on to say that long term use of ACE is contraindicated and

dangerous. Any comments?

So, my question is why would we ever want to give ACE which raises cortisol?

Re: Adrenal Burnout Imminent

>> I've managed to totally confuse myself reading these posts, all due to my

>> fault, but I need something clarified.

>> If you give phosphatidylserine because someone has high cortisol (gains

>> weight on stomach, but not arms and legs) does this have anything to do

>> with

>> whether you give adrenal cortex extract?

>

> Yes, you would generally withold ACE

>>

>> Or does effect does ACE have on cortisol?

>

> ACE lets you make cortisol more easily, and other hormones too, some not

> yet

> characterized by science no doubt.

>>

>> Thanks,

>>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Keeping with this subject line that ACE increases cortisol, I found this

passage in Life Extension's Disease Prevention Book;

" At normal levels, cortisol assists in the metabolism of glucose, protein,

and fats. It also has a strong impact on the immune system. At consistently

high levels due to illness or stress, cortisol suppresses immune response

and accelerates the aging of major organ systems. In general, rising levels

of cortisol are associated with physical and severe mental stress. "

They go on to say that long term use of ACE is contraindicated and

dangerous. Any comments?

So, my question is why would we ever want to give ACE which raises cortisol?

Re: Adrenal Burnout Imminent

>> I've managed to totally confuse myself reading these posts, all due to my

>> fault, but I need something clarified.

>> If you give phosphatidylserine because someone has high cortisol (gains

>> weight on stomach, but not arms and legs) does this have anything to do

>> with

>> whether you give adrenal cortex extract?

>

> Yes, you would generally withold ACE

>>

>> Or does effect does ACE have on cortisol?

>

> ACE lets you make cortisol more easily, and other hormones too, some not

> yet

> characterized by science no doubt.

>>

>> Thanks,

>>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Keeping with this subject line that ACE increases cortisol, I found this

passage in Life Extension's Disease Prevention Book;

" At normal levels, cortisol assists in the metabolism of glucose, protein,

and fats. It also has a strong impact on the immune system. At consistently

high levels due to illness or stress, cortisol suppresses immune response

and accelerates the aging of major organ systems. In general, rising levels

of cortisol are associated with physical and severe mental stress. "

They go on to say that long term use of ACE is contraindicated and

dangerous. Any comments?

So, my question is why would we ever want to give ACE which raises cortisol?

Re: Adrenal Burnout Imminent

>> I've managed to totally confuse myself reading these posts, all due to my

>> fault, but I need something clarified.

>> If you give phosphatidylserine because someone has high cortisol (gains

>> weight on stomach, but not arms and legs) does this have anything to do

>> with

>> whether you give adrenal cortex extract?

>

> Yes, you would generally withold ACE

>>

>> Or does effect does ACE have on cortisol?

>

> ACE lets you make cortisol more easily, and other hormones too, some not

> yet

> characterized by science no doubt.

>>

>> Thanks,

>>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Cortisol is life sustaining in normal amounts and the body can not

live without it....... although too much is not good either,

ACE and steroids help to raise cortisol levels when they have gotten

too low.

Due to stress, illness and what not, there is a point where the

adrenals have been overactive for so long that they poop out and can

no longer make enough for the body to function normally anymore, and

this is where we jump in a try and give steroids, ACE and other

adrenal support so that the body can get the cortisol it needs, also

allowing the adrenals to rest and hopefully rejuvenate enough so they

can function more normally again after a period of time.

~Inga

> Keeping with this subject line that ACE increases cortisol, I found

> this

> passage in Life Extension's Disease Prevention Book;

>

> " At normal levels, cortisol assists in the metabolism of glucose,

> protein,

> and fats. It also has a strong impact on the immune system. At

> consistently

> high levels due to illness or stress, cortisol suppresses immune

> response

> and accelerates the aging of major organ systems. In general,

> rising levels

> of cortisol are associated with physical and severe mental stress. "

>

> They go on to say that long term use of ACE is contraindicated and

> dangerous. Any comments?

>

> So, my question is why would we ever want to give ACE which raises

> cortisol?

>

>

> --

>

> .

>

>

[Guest guest]

Cortisol is life sustaining in normal amounts and the body can not

live without it....... although too much is not good either,

ACE and steroids help to raise cortisol levels when they have gotten

too low.

Due to stress, illness and what not, there is a point where the

adrenals have been overactive for so long that they poop out and can

no longer make enough for the body to function normally anymore, and

this is where we jump in a try and give steroids, ACE and other

adrenal support so that the body can get the cortisol it needs, also

allowing the adrenals to rest and hopefully rejuvenate enough so they

can function more normally again after a period of time.

~Inga

> Keeping with this subject line that ACE increases cortisol, I found

> this

> passage in Life Extension's Disease Prevention Book;

>

> " At normal levels, cortisol assists in the metabolism of glucose,

> protein,

> and fats. It also has a strong impact on the immune system. At

> consistently

> high levels due to illness or stress, cortisol suppresses immune

> response

> and accelerates the aging of major organ systems. In general,

> rising levels

> of cortisol are associated with physical and severe mental stress. "

>

> They go on to say that long term use of ACE is contraindicated and

> dangerous. Any comments?

>

> So, my question is why would we ever want to give ACE which raises

> cortisol?

>

>

> --

>

> .

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Keeping with this subject line that ACE increases cortisol, I found

this

> passage in Life Extension's Disease Prevention Book;

>

> " At normal levels, cortisol assists in the metabolism of glucose,

protein,

> and fats. It also has a strong impact on the immune system.

At consistently

> high levels due to illness or stress, cortisol suppresses immune

response

> and accelerates the aging of major organ systems. In general, rising

levels

> of cortisol are associated with physical and severe mental stress. "

>

The key here is 'consistently high levels'.

In most cases with metal poisoning we are talking about people who are

producing consistently low levels of cortisol, and have been for some

time.

> They go on to say that long term use of ACE is contraindicated and

> dangerous. Any comments?

>

As with anything it would likely depend on the dose.

> So, my question is why would we ever want to give ACE which raises

cortisol?

>

To attempt to bring cortisol up to more normal levels so that it can

do it's job of assisting in the metabolism of glucose, protein, and

fats and helping with immune function.

J

>

> Re: Adrenal Burnout Imminent

>

>

> >> I've managed to totally confuse myself reading these posts, all

due to my

> >> fault, but I need something clarified.

> >> If you give phosphatidylserine because someone has high cortisol

(gains

> >> weight on stomach, but not arms and legs) does this have anything

to do

> >> with

> >> whether you give adrenal cortex extract?

> >

> > Yes, you would generally withold ACE

> >>

> >> Or does effect does ACE have on cortisol?

> >

> > ACE lets you make cortisol more easily, and other hormones too,

some not

> > yet

> > characterized by science no doubt.

> >>

> >> Thanks,

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

>

> Keeping with this subject line that ACE increases cortisol, I found

this

> passage in Life Extension's Disease Prevention Book;

>

> " At normal levels, cortisol assists in the metabolism of glucose,

protein,

> and fats. It also has a strong impact on the immune system.

At consistently

> high levels due to illness or stress, cortisol suppresses immune

response

> and accelerates the aging of major organ systems. In general, rising

levels

> of cortisol are associated with physical and severe mental stress. "

>

The key here is 'consistently high levels'.

In most cases with metal poisoning we are talking about people who are

producing consistently low levels of cortisol, and have been for some

time.

> They go on to say that long term use of ACE is contraindicated and

> dangerous. Any comments?

>

As with anything it would likely depend on the dose.

> So, my question is why would we ever want to give ACE which raises

cortisol?

>

To attempt to bring cortisol up to more normal levels so that it can

do it's job of assisting in the metabolism of glucose, protein, and

fats and helping with immune function.

J

>

> Re: Adrenal Burnout Imminent

>

>

> >> I've managed to totally confuse myself reading these posts, all

due to my

> >> fault, but I need something clarified.

> >> If you give phosphatidylserine because someone has high cortisol

(gains

> >> weight on stomach, but not arms and legs) does this have anything

to do

> >> with

> >> whether you give adrenal cortex extract?

> >

> > Yes, you would generally withold ACE

> >>

> >> Or does effect does ACE have on cortisol?

> >

> > ACE lets you make cortisol more easily, and other hormones too,

some not

> > yet

> > characterized by science no doubt.

> >>

> >> Thanks,

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >