Re: Leaky Gut, etc

[Guest guest]

I thought I would let you know the result of my " leaky gut test " or more

properly known as Intestinal Permeability. There were some posting in the

summer suggesting a link with rosacea so I thought it would be worthwhile

having it checked out. After two screw-ups with the lab analyis I finally

got the results of the third attempt today. The test measures the

permeability of lactulose and mannitol and also calculates their ratio. The

results showed that I do not have a leaky gut and am in fact on the good

side of the normal distribution. (0 - 0.8 for the lactulose is the normal

range and I was 0.1, 0-30 is normal for the mannitol and I was16 and for the

ratio 0 - 0.07 is normal and I was 0.01). So as far as my rosacea is

concerned the leaky gut theory does not apply.

Regarding the lack of knowledge of rosacea by dermatologist I am not

surprised. I think one great thing about the INTERNET is that it is showing

how poorly most diseases are understood by the medical profession. Look how

many billions has been spent on research into cancers and still how little

is known about them. If you check the stats you will see that most of the

ones that have significantly declined (such as stomach cancer) have been for

environmental reasons or diet changes, not medical. Now that patients can

interact through egroups we are seeing the real picture that was previously

difficult to get. It does not surprise me in the least, however, as body

chemistry is extremely complex and the amount of new information is almost

overwhelming, so how can one expect a doctor to be knowledgeable (especially

GP's) in many areas? Even dermatology covers a multitude of diseases each

with their own peculiartities and then throw in the individual patient's

body chemistry and you will realise why there are so few cures around (plus

of course the major players in the game, such as drug companies, would make

far less money if they developed cures rather than " contolling " our

illnesses).

I see rosacea as a series of diseases with common symptons but a variety of

causes. It shows as a vascular disease with dilated, weak blood vessels but

the underlying causes may be different (why is it limited mainly to the

face?). In my case it is genetic as my father had it. So far I see no cure -

photoderm, which has been claimed as a cure really puts you back several

years or more by removing a lot of the damage but I'm not convinced the

disease has been cured. I have tried just about everything except the

physical treatments but only antibiotics seem to control it. When I first

joined I suggested we fund our own research - far cheaper than the thousands

we are all spending on the disease - but the response was only warm.

I see from our Canadian members that the availability of photoderm is almost

next to zero is this land of free medicare. Does anyone know of a clinic in

Ontario?

Merry Xmas to you all.

Gord

[Guest guest]

Gord,

Thankyou so much for investigating your intestinal permeability. The only

way to really eliminate these possibilites is to just go out there and do

it.

This damn disease is such a frustrating thing to beat - but I'm still

convinced that there is now a well established pattern of symptoms that

regularly (although not always) accompany this disease. Symptoms that

largely stem from some sort of dysfunction of the digestive system. And

remember that at earlier times it was a widely held belief that rosacea was

caused by some kind of digestive problem, but because no consistent findings

have ever been established in numerous studies, the whole idea was

eventually dismissed.

I personally believe that this was a big mistake - there have been numerous

studies over the years that turned up various patterns of digestive

malfunction, but unfortunately these findings could never be consistently

demonstrated and the medical community finally gave the idea a big thumbs

down. Also if you consider the number of patients who suffer from Crohn's

or Ulcerative Colitis or other symptoms of inflammatory/irritible bowel who

also suffer from rosacea it just seems too premature to dismiss the whole

idea based on a few fallible experiments. Also it has to be noted that no

study has yet been conducted to assess intestinal permeability in rosacea

patients (partly I imagine because this is a relatively

new means of investigating digestive function), when (as I have mentioned in

previous posts) the evidence is screaming out for some sort of investigation

and if intestinal permeability did play a role then it wouldn't even be

possible to establish a consistent " old fashioned " observation to confirm

such a diagnosis.

I also think recent discussions about the lack of knowledge within the

medical community are right - before I developed this disease, I just

assumed that doctors were well informed about all conditions and that their

opinions should be completely trusted. However, as I have studied this

disease, I have realised that the average doctor often considers rosacea to

simply be a variant of adolescent acne and should be treated as such. A

mistake that might often worsen the condition in most patients. Also the

number of times leading dermatologists absolutley prohibit the use of

corticosteroids in the treatment of rosacea and the number of poor

individuals who turn up on this group experiencing terrible rebound symptoms

when they try to stop this medication is amazing. How does this apparently

" well known " information fail to filter down to the doctors who actually

treat this disease?

Anyway, although this is a bit of a blow, I'm still holding out that

something close to intestinal permeability plays a role in this disease.

When I say close it is either that the actual process of inflammation of the

digestive tract releases material in to the blood stream that causes the

rosacea or that intestinal permeability still plays a role, but is more

difficult to detect - this would be especially likely if the increased IP

was caused by exposure to particular food allergens. Gord, can I ask if

you suffer from any known food allergies or if you suspect that you do.

Also would you describe your rosacea symptoms as being less/more/normal than

usual at the time of taking the test.

Anyway, thanks again for following up this lead and I hope everyone has a

very merry christmas.

Seth

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[Guest guest]

Gord,

Thankyou so much for investigating your intestinal permeability. The only

way to really eliminate these possibilites is to just go out there and do

it.

This damn disease is such a frustrating thing to beat - but I'm still

convinced that there is now a well established pattern of symptoms that

regularly (although not always) accompany this disease. Symptoms that

largely stem from some sort of dysfunction of the digestive system. And

remember that at earlier times it was a widely held belief that rosacea was

caused by some kind of digestive problem, but because no consistent findings

have ever been established in numerous studies, the whole idea was

eventually dismissed.

I personally believe that this was a big mistake - there have been numerous

studies over the years that turned up various patterns of digestive

malfunction, but unfortunately these findings could never be consistently

demonstrated and the medical community finally gave the idea a big thumbs

down. Also if you consider the number of patients who suffer from Crohn's

or Ulcerative Colitis or other symptoms of inflammatory/irritible bowel who

also suffer from rosacea it just seems too premature to dismiss the whole

idea based on a few fallible experiments. Also it has to be noted that no

study has yet been conducted to assess intestinal permeability in rosacea

patients (partly I imagine because this is a relatively

new means of investigating digestive function), when (as I have mentioned in

previous posts) the evidence is screaming out for some sort of investigation

and if intestinal permeability did play a role then it wouldn't even be

possible to establish a consistent " old fashioned " observation to confirm

such a diagnosis.

I also think recent discussions about the lack of knowledge within the

medical community are right - before I developed this disease, I just

assumed that doctors were well informed about all conditions and that their

opinions should be completely trusted. However, as I have studied this

disease, I have realised that the average doctor often considers rosacea to

simply be a variant of adolescent acne and should be treated as such. A

mistake that might often worsen the condition in most patients. Also the

number of times leading dermatologists absolutley prohibit the use of

corticosteroids in the treatment of rosacea and the number of poor

individuals who turn up on this group experiencing terrible rebound symptoms

when they try to stop this medication is amazing. How does this apparently

" well known " information fail to filter down to the doctors who actually

treat this disease?

Anyway, although this is a bit of a blow, I'm still holding out that

something close to intestinal permeability plays a role in this disease.

When I say close it is either that the actual process of inflammation of the

digestive tract releases material in to the blood stream that causes the

rosacea or that intestinal permeability still plays a role, but is more

difficult to detect - this would be especially likely if the increased IP

was caused by exposure to particular food allergens. Gord, can I ask if

you suffer from any known food allergies or if you suspect that you do.

Also would you describe your rosacea symptoms as being less/more/normal than

usual at the time of taking the test.

Anyway, thanks again for following up this lead and I hope everyone has a

very merry christmas.

Seth

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[Guest guest]

Hi Seth

Thanks for your interesting comments.

The reason I can not find any connection with my rosacea and diet are the

following:

(By the way I have spent most of my working life as a research chemist so

have tended to experiment a lot with different foods, medications, etc., to

determine their effect on my rosacea).

I am 56 years old extremely fit (whether that equates to healthy I'm not

sure) male. I play soccer twice a week (still haven't grown up!!) and can

run 5 miles without blinking. My friends reckon I am fitter than most 40

year olds. I have no aches or pains or known illnesses except rosacea. I

started with acne as a kid and it progressed over the years to rosacea. At

present I am permanently red - I have not discovered any triggers. I have no

known allergies and can eat just about anything Rarely have had stomach

problems in my life (except when on large doses of tetracycline). Have lived

in England, Canada and Japan, travelled extensively and eaten all the

different foods available without any problem. Never was into sweet foods

though - love fruit and veg. I have been on an O-blood type diet (no wheat

or dairy) since June at recommendation of my naturopath and maybe have seen

a slight improvement. I also gave up coffee but drink lots of green tea. I

drink beer 3/4 times a week (remember " Guinness is good for you " !!)- my

father never drank alcohol but had severe rosacea. I keep trying all the

posted suggestions (presently trying the MSM) in the hope of an improvement.

Other comments: I was tested for h.pylori three years ago and was negative.

My wife who died 3 years ago from stomach cancer at age 49, (after being

misdiagnosed (menopause) by a female doctor), was h.pylori positive and had

great skin. A colleague of mine in mid-twenties has had Crohn's since age 12

but has flawless skin. I agree with all your comments about dermatologists.

Hope you can see why in my case I don't think diet is has had much effect on

my rosacea. But as I see from the many posting we are all different and it

may be important for some people.

Best wishes

Gord

[Guest guest]

Perhaps your vigorous work-outs have progressed rosacea. Also, weather can

be a factor. If you run in the cold or heat this is rough on for rosacean

skin. You may need laser to revers some of the progress rosacea has made

and then rethink your lifestyle so that it is kept under control. Good

luck. Fran

- Re: Re: Leaky Gut, etc

Hi Seth

Thanks for your interesting comments.

The reason I can not find any connection with my rosacea and diet are the

following:

(By the way I have spent most of my working life as a research chemist so

have tended to experiment a lot with different foods, medications, etc., to

determine their effect on my rosacea).

I am 56 years old extremely fit (whether that equates to healthy I'm not

sure) male. I play soccer twice a week (still haven't grown up!!) and can

run 5 miles without blinking. My friends reckon I am fitter than most 40

year olds. I have no aches or pains or known illnesses except rosacea. I

started with acne as a kid and it progressed over the years to rosacea. At

present I am permanently red - I have not discovered any triggers. I have no

known allergies and can eat just about anything Rarely have had stomach

problems in my life (except when on large doses of tetracycline). Have lived

in England, Canada and Japan, travelled extensively and eaten all the

different foods available without any problem. Never was into sweet foods

though - love fruit and veg. I have been on an O-blood type diet (no wheat

or dairy) since June at recommendation of my naturopath and maybe have seen

a slight improvement. I also gave up coffee but drink lots of green tea. I

drink beer 3/4 times a week (remember " Guinness is good for you " !!)- my

father never drank alcohol but had severe rosacea. I keep trying all the

posted suggestions (presently trying the MSM) in the hope of an improvement.

Other comments: I was tested for h.pylori three years ago and was negative.

My wife who died 3 years ago from stomach cancer at age 49, (after being

misdiagnosed (menopause) by a female doctor), was h.pylori positive and had

great skin. A colleague of mine in mid-twenties has had Crohn's since age 12

but has flawless skin. I agree with all your comments about dermatologists.

Hope you can see why in my case I don't think diet is has had much effect on

my rosacea. But as I see from the many posting we are all different and it

may be important for some people.

Best wishes

Gord

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When replying, please delete all text at the end of your email that isn't

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To leave the list send an email to rosacea-support-unsubscribeegroups

[Guest guest]

Perhaps your vigorous work-outs have progressed rosacea. Also, weather can

be a factor. If you run in the cold or heat this is rough on for rosacean

skin. You may need laser to revers some of the progress rosacea has made

and then rethink your lifestyle so that it is kept under control. Good

luck. Fran

- Re: Re: Leaky Gut, etc

Hi Seth

Thanks for your interesting comments.

The reason I can not find any connection with my rosacea and diet are the

following:

(By the way I have spent most of my working life as a research chemist so

have tended to experiment a lot with different foods, medications, etc., to

determine their effect on my rosacea).

I am 56 years old extremely fit (whether that equates to healthy I'm not

sure) male. I play soccer twice a week (still haven't grown up!!) and can

run 5 miles without blinking. My friends reckon I am fitter than most 40

year olds. I have no aches or pains or known illnesses except rosacea. I

started with acne as a kid and it progressed over the years to rosacea. At

present I am permanently red - I have not discovered any triggers. I have no

known allergies and can eat just about anything Rarely have had stomach

problems in my life (except when on large doses of tetracycline). Have lived

in England, Canada and Japan, travelled extensively and eaten all the

different foods available without any problem. Never was into sweet foods

though - love fruit and veg. I have been on an O-blood type diet (no wheat

or dairy) since June at recommendation of my naturopath and maybe have seen

a slight improvement. I also gave up coffee but drink lots of green tea. I

drink beer 3/4 times a week (remember " Guinness is good for you " !!)- my

father never drank alcohol but had severe rosacea. I keep trying all the

posted suggestions (presently trying the MSM) in the hope of an improvement.

Other comments: I was tested for h.pylori three years ago and was negative.

My wife who died 3 years ago from stomach cancer at age 49, (after being

misdiagnosed (menopause) by a female doctor), was h.pylori positive and had

great skin. A colleague of mine in mid-twenties has had Crohn's since age 12

but has flawless skin. I agree with all your comments about dermatologists.

Hope you can see why in my case I don't think diet is has had much effect on

my rosacea. But as I see from the many posting we are all different and it

may be important for some people.

Best wishes

Gord

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Please read the list highlights thoroughly before posting to the whole

group. See http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html

When replying, please delete all text at the end of your email that isn't

necessary for your message.

To leave the list send an email to rosacea-support-unsubscribeegroups