Guest guest Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 Pancreatic enzymes are animal-derived whereas the enzymes discussed here are plant-based. Pancreatic enzymes are only available by prescription. They tend to be stronger. Chelsey > > Are pancreatic enzymes the same kind of enzymes that we are talking > about here? My son has a new pediatrician who likes to prescribe > pancreatic enzymes to his patients with autism. He mentioned it to me > at my other child's visit. My son is already on AFP and I just bought > zyme prime and no-fenol to start next week. The doctor made it sound > like something that you have a prescription for so I was confused. He > also didn't sound impressed by the fact that I was using enzymes so I > wondered if they were different. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 By stronger do you mean that he wouldn't have to take all the other enzymes? Are they better? Would I have to do the diet too? > > > > Are pancreatic enzymes the same kind of enzymes that we are talking > > about here? My son has a new pediatrician who likes to prescribe > > pancreatic enzymes to his patients with autism. He mentioned it to me > > at my other child's visit. My son is already on AFP and I just bought > > zyme prime and no-fenol to start next week. The doctor made it sound > > like something that you have a prescription for so I was confused. He > > also didn't sound impressed by the fact that I was using enzymes so I > > wondered if they were different. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 > > Are pancreatic enzymes the same kind of enzymes that we are talking > about here? Most of the enzymes we discuss here are plant-based, not pancreatic. This page gives a good comparison http://www.enzymestuff.com/basicsenzymeguide.htm >>My son has a new pediatrician who likes to prescribe > pancreatic enzymes to his patients with autism. He mentioned it to me > at my other child's visit. My son is already on AFP and I just bought > zyme prime and no-fenol to start next week. The doctor made it sound > like something that you have a prescription for so I was confused. You need rx for pancreatic. However, they may not be the best for autism, because they work in the small intestine, after the food has already been thru the stomach. Read the page above for more info. Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 I just listened to a CD about Wobenzym. It's a product that contains pancreatic enzymes - it is supposed to relieve pain an inflammation. You can buy it OTC. They say it's the second most popular OTC " drug " in Germany (first is aspirin). http://www.wobenzym.com/ What is interesting is that they claim to have over 25 years of research and have spent over $50 million in studies. Dan > > > > > Are pancreatic enzymes the same kind of enzymes that we are talking > > about here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 >-----Original Message----- >From: >[mailto: ]On Behalf Of danasview >You need rx for pancreatic. You are the second person to say this and I can't figure out why. I use pancreatic enzymes regularly and buy them both on the Internet and at my local health food store. To my knowledge they are widely availble OTC. In fact the link you gave says as much, as well. However, they may not be the best for >autism, because they work in the small intestine, after the food has >already been thru the stomach. Read the page above for more info. > FWIW, there seems to be disagreement among those using enzyme treatments as to whether pancreatic enzymes are actually destroyed by stomach acid. Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine http://www.westonaprice.org ---------------------------- “The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” -- Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics <http://www.thincs.org> ---------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 >-----Original Message----- >From: >[mailto: ]On Behalf Of Suze Fisher >>You need rx for pancreatic. > >You are the second person to say this and I can't figure out why. I use >pancreatic enzymes regularly and buy them both on the Internet and at my >local health food store. To my knowledge they are widely availble OTC. In >fact the link you gave says as much, as well. I'm sorry Dana, if this sounds like I was snapping at you. Sometimes I re-read what I wrote and realize it may not come off as I intended. Didn't mean to snap! :-) Suze Fisher Allure Creative (207) 725-0832 Web Design & Development http://www.allurecreative.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 I don't know what Wobenzym does for the Germans but it gives me severe joint pains. Which I do not usually have unless I consume something highly allergenic...like aspergillus-fermented soy sauce. BTW I just read that the FDA is making some pancreatic enzymes (I don't know if these are included) prescription only. It's a new rule, apparently. Peace, Kathy E. > > I just listened to a CD about Wobenzym. It's a product that contains > pancreatic enzymes - it is supposed to relieve pain an inflammation. You can > buy it OTC. They say it's the second most popular OTC " drug " in Germany > (first is aspirin). > > http://www.wobenzym.com/ > > What is interesting is that they claim to have over 25 years of research and > have spent over $50 million in studies. > > Dan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 Pancreatic enzymes are sold both over the counter and by prescription. The prescription names I know of are Creon and Viokase. But I don't know exactly what the difference is. Maybe potency? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 I don't know the difference. I do know that Creon is by prescription only. > > Pancreatic enzymes are sold both over the counter and by prescription. > The prescription names I know of are Creon and Viokase. But I don't > know exactly what the difference is. Maybe potency? > > . > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 Pancreatic enzymes have been a godsend for my son. He had a really hard time adjusting to them but once he did his lifelong chronic diarrhea disappeared and we were finally able to potty train. I'm not a medical doctor and don't understand the specifics about how they work. I just know that they changed our lives for the better. He can't tolerate a lot of things including probiotics but I was determined to get these into him after so many other things didn't work. After about a month they started to work and he got much better. Just my experience... Chelsey > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: > >[mailto: ]On Behalf Of danasview > > > >You need rx for pancreatic. > > You are the second person to say this and I can't figure out why. I use > pancreatic enzymes regularly and buy them both on the Internet and at my > local health food store. To my knowledge they are widely availble OTC. In > fact the link you gave says as much, as well. > > > However, they may not be the best for > >autism, because they work in the small intestine, after the food has > >already been thru the stomach. Read the page above for more info. > > > > FWIW, there seems to be disagreement among those using enzyme treatments as > to whether pancreatic enzymes are actually destroyed by stomach acid. > > > > > Suze Fisher > Lapdog Design, Inc. > Web Design & Development > http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg > Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine > http://www.westonaprice.org > > ---------------------------- > " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause > heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " -- > Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt > University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. > > The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics > <http://www.thincs.org> > ---------------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 > You are the second person to say this and I can't figure out why. I use > pancreatic enzymes regularly and buy them both on the Internet and at my > local health food store. To my knowledge they are widely availble OTC. In > fact the link you gave says as much, as well. Okay, then certain brands/varieties of pancreatic are available OTC. That is good news, especially for kids who are not tolerating the plant-based enzymes. Can you give the brand/name of the enzyme you use, and info on whether it is helpful? I have read LOTS of stories on how good plant-based enzymes have been, but very few stories on benefits caused by pancreatic enzymes. I would like to read stories about those benefits also. Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 Just to clarify regarding pancreatic enzymes. My son uses pancreatic enzymes because he has Cystic Fibrosis. Due to the CF he is pancreatic insufficient meaning that his pancreas can not release the enzymes needed to digest his food. Pancreatic enzymes do work in the small intestine and the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation (USA) will only endorse the prescription ones. There are currently some generic pancreatic enzymes available (I do not know if a prescription is needed and I do not know if these are the ones available OTC) but the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation does not recommend them for CF patients as they have never been tested to prove that they are effective and they aren't FDA monitored. The few CF patients that I know that have tried them have found them to be unsuccessful. The pancreatic enzymes we use (Creon brand)are enteric coated and the small beads are then contained in a gel cap, this is how they pass through the stomach without being destroyed by stomach acid. For those CF patients that are too young to swallow a capsule, their enzymes are dumped onto apple sauce and spoon fed to them. The acidity in the applesauce is meant to help protect them as they pass through the stomach. I'm not implying that I know everything about enzymes, but regarding prescription, pancreatic enzymes as a CF parent I can tell you it is pounded into your head from the start that they will break down in the stomach if not protected. Hopefully this sheds some light and will help someone! Sincerely, R. > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: > >[mailto: ]On Behalf Of danasview > > > >You need rx for pancreatic. > > You are the second person to say this and I can't figure out why. I use > pancreatic enzymes regularly and buy them both on the Internet and at my > local health food store. To my knowledge they are widely availble OTC. In > fact the link you gave says as much, as well. > > > However, they may not be the best for > >autism, because they work in the small intestine, after the food has > >already been thru the stomach. Read the page above for more info. > > > > FWIW, there seems to be disagreement among those using enzyme treatments as > to whether pancreatic enzymes are actually destroyed by stomach acid. > > > > > Suze Fisher > Lapdog Design, Inc. > Web Design & Development > http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg > Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine > http://www.westonaprice.org > > ---------------------------- > " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause > heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " -- > Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt > University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. > > The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics > <http://www.thincs.org> > ---------------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 >-----Original Message----- >From: >[mailto: ]On Behalf Of >Ruckersfeldt > >Just to clarify regarding pancreatic enzymes. My son uses >pancreatic enzymes because he has Cystic Fibrosis. Due to the CF he >is pancreatic insufficient meaning that his pancreas can not release >the enzymes needed to digest his food. Pancreatic enzymes do work >in the small intestine and the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation (USA) will >only endorse the prescription ones. There are currently some >generic pancreatic enzymes available (I do not know if a >prescription is needed and I do not know if these are the ones >available OTC) but the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation does not recommend >them for CF patients as they have never been tested to prove that >they are effective and they aren't FDA monitored. The few CF >patients that I know that have tried them have found them to be >unsuccessful. The pancreatic enzymes we use (Creon brand)are >enteric coated and the small beads are then contained in a gel cap, >this is how they pass through the stomach without being destroyed by >stomach acid. For those CF patients that are too young to swallow a >capsule, their enzymes are dumped onto apple sauce and spoon fed to >them. The acidity in the applesauce is meant to help protect them >as they pass through the stomach. I'm not implying that I know >everything about enzymes, but regarding prescription, pancreatic >enzymes as a CF parent I can tell you it is pounded into your head >from the start that they will break down in the stomach if not >protected. This is very interesting , thanks for sharing this. I mentioned the disagreement about pancreatic enzymes being broken down by stomach acid, because , MD, a well-known cancer doc, uses pancreatic enzymes with his cancer patients, and apparently has a very good success rate. His work with pancreatic enzymes is based on the work of two physicians that preceded him. When I mentioned to him at a recent lecture of his that I attended, that said in her book that stomach acid destroys pancreatic enzymes, he was *adament* that this is completely false and he immediately rattled off several studies that supported his argument. This is why I find it curious that there are apparently other studies that found the opposite. I posted some comments about this recently, I think. We'd have to see the actual studies and find out what type of pancreatic enzymes they were using in what concentrations, whether they tested them in vitro (test tube) or in vivo (in an actual person), and what the pH was of the stomach was if they actually tested them in people, and...and...and...lots of variables need to be accounted for in order for us to know why several studies have shown pancreatic enzymes NOT being degraded by stomach acid while others have. Only then could we really get a better handle on the reasons for these discrpencies. These comments are of course of a philosophical nature, and not meant to be of any practical use. If the enteric coated enzymes are working for the use you intend them, then certainly stick with them! If the non-enteric coated enzymes are working for Dr. in his work, then it makes sense that he'd stick with his current protocol too. Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine http://www.westonaprice.org ---------------------------- “The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” -- Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics <http://www.thincs.org> ---------------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 >-----Original Message----- >From: >[mailto: ]On Behalf Of danasview > > > >> You are the second person to say this and I can't figure out why. I use >> pancreatic enzymes regularly and buy them both on the Internet and at my >> local health food store. To my knowledge they are widely availble >OTC. In >> fact the link you gave says as much, as well. > > >Okay, then certain brands/varieties of pancreatic are available OTC. >That is good news, especially for kids who are not tolerating the >plant-based enzymes. Can you give the brand/name of the enzyme you >use, and info on whether it is helpful? I have read LOTS of stories >on how good plant-based enzymes have been, but very few stories on >benefits caused by pancreatic enzymes. I would like to read stories >about those benefits also. Oh my, I think most people I know with digestive issues take HCl (stomach acid) and *pancreatic* enzymes with very good results. As I mentioned in another post, pancreatic enzymes are the foundation of Dr. ' cancer treatment program, and from what I understand, his success rate is very high. Currently, I mostly use the pancreatin product with my dogs due to the expense of taking them myself (in addition to all the other supps I take) but there is pancreatin in the one of my HCl/enzyme supplements. Dipan-9 by Thorne Research is the pancreatin supplement. It's additive-free, and according to the company's literature, IIRC, the most potent OTC pancreatic supp available. Don't know if that's true or not. The HCl/enzyme supp (with pancreatin) I take is Thorne's Bio-Gest. I will probably be switching to one with a higher HCl concentration and one containing only *betaine* hydrochloride (no glutamic acid hydrochloride, due to the possibilty of excitotoxicity) though. The HCl (stomach acid) is critical for many of us with digestive problems. I don't know if hypochloridia (low stomach acid) is common among ASD folks, but I think the fact that B12 *injections* are so helpful to many ASD people is HIGHLY suggestive that they are low in HCl, otherwise they'd do fine on *oral* B12 supplements. But when one is not producing adequate HCl then one is also not producing adequate intrinsic factor as they are both produced by the paratial cells, I think. And intrinsic factor is required for B12 absorption. So if oral B12 is not making any impact but *injectible* B12 is, it's very suggestive that the individual is not producing adequate HCl, which, by the way, is the body's first line defense against pathogens, viruses, etc. This may also be why ASD folks tend to be sucseptible to these invaders. It's pretty easy to home-test whether one is deficient in HCl. There's a baking soda/burp test (I can get the specific protocol if anyone wants it) and then there's the test where you just take HCl starting with a low dose and work up. If you feel a burning sensation then you don't need it. If you feel nothing, then you are deficient. I think 6 capsule is the max recommended by Dr. (a pretty good alternative M.D.) who wrote the book " Why Stomach Acid is Good for You. " Back to pancreatin - there are lots of other OTC pancreatin supps in addition to Thorne's products. I don't know much about any of the other ones though. Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine http://www.westonaprice.org ---------------------------- “The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” -- Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics <http://www.thincs.org> ---------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 >>>and...lots of variables need to be accounted for in order for us to know why several studies have shown pancreatic enzymes NOT being degraded by stomach acid while others have. I agree that there is probably some other information that explains what appears to be conflicting results. It could be that both scenarios are true depending on the situation. I also didn't realize that some pancreatic enzymes were okayed by the cystic fibrosis group whereas others were found ineffective and not encouraged. So one person may say 'CF endorses pancreatic enzymes' but someone else 'CF does not endorse pancreatic enzymes'. Both could be correct although they were thinking of different types of pancreatic enzymes! Good to know. thanks everyone for keeping the general knowledge level up! . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 And even though most people are using plant or microbial derived enzymes here and that is what the majority of products on the shelves contains, I always remember all the work Wobenzym company has done with their pancreatic-based enzymes (their products also include plant enzymes). They sponsored a lot of the clinical research that is on the books going back for decades. Sure that research was done using their products, but they were doing research when no one else was. That research continued proving enzymes did work therapeutically on serious illnesses. And...it contributed to more advancements in enzyme research producing the plant/microbial areas. A real pioneer in enzymes. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 Hello Ladies, Patty asked me to stop by as I was just telling her that I was diagnosed with pancreatic disease. There are several forms. With me, my pancreas is not producing enzymes and I have had some MAJOR problems for the last 4 years not knowing what was wrong. GI/Specialists told me I need to lose weight but didn't say that until they saw my bloated belly. I also have an enlarged pancreas which could be caused from the Epstein Barr as well and other things so doctors were telling me not to worry about it. So, this is what I've been going through the last 4 years.....severe abdominal pain, not constant but more like occassional attacks. Over the years this became worse and then I noticed that I was no longer digesting my food. This really alarmed me and I started to take plant enzymes which I was told that this should be the only type of enzyme to take as there are other types. This really helped my IBS but my stomach was still bloated and I was still having the attacks of pain. Oh and BTW....plant enzymes are excellent for GERD. So, the third GI doc took one look at my stomach and told me that it was air. I was swallowing air throughout the day making it bloated and hard. My colon was so enlarged from this air it was pressing on my other organs causing pain. My doctor said that this was even affecting my ribs, really, I looked 6 months pregnant. He said that he believed it was from an overgrowth of bad bacteria and candida. He put me on a probiotic and he mentioned that most have dead bacteria and you have to be careful. So he recommended either Flora-Q or Align as he knew for sure that these two contained live bacteria. Flora-Q has silicone dioxide and titanium dioxide in it so I was not happy with that even though I noticed a huge difference from other probiotics I've used. I've have since switched to Align. He also put me on mega doses of fiber and miralax. He said that fiber is very important. As you are killing this stuff off, the fiber absorbs it and helps the body to eliminate it. It also absorbs the air. This has really helped the bloating. I take 5 fibercons during the day. 2 with breakfast, 1 with lunch and 2 with dinner. He also did some fecal tests which showed that I'm not producing pancreatic enzymes. My gallbaldder tested fine so it isn't from a stone. He suggested that I go on Creon which is a prescription pancreatic enzyme. One of the best you can take. It is pricey. 155 dollars for a 10 day supply! I must say that this has made a huge difference in the types of food I can eat without pain and I am now digesting my food. I was amazed because the weakness I had in my legs are gone. He also put me on the South Beach Diet. He said it is excellent for colon health. So basically any diet that eliminates sugar and carbs is a good diet for any of us. I'm sure most of you already know that. I have dropped close to thirty pounds and for the first time in many years, I feel like the old me is coming back. I still have fatigue but I just feel better overall. I would suggest anyone that is not digesting their food, to be tested. I have to take three pills with each meal spacing them out throughout the meal. So, if you are having digestive problems and no matter what you do, you can't seem to get relief, I would have the 72 hour fecal test and the key is to not mention implants which I have stopped doing because doctors treat me totally different. I'm sure you have all noticed that as well. So, that is everything I know about enzymes and I was able to stop taking the plant enzymes. I can't comment on the holistic enzymes. I think that my case was so severe that they would have not helped me. I think that we all need enzymes but if you are experiencing the symptoms that I was, you really need to be tested because I have suffered for years with this. If you have any questions, please let me know. P.S. One other note, I told him that I gained 8 pounds on the Colonix program and he highly recommended against it. He believes it made my condition worse and told me that I should have been taking alot of fiber instead. Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Beth ~ Thank you for sharing your story with us. Very helpful information ! ! I am sorry you had to deal with that so long. It is so nice you have found a remady ! ! Hugs Dede**************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 You are welcome, Beth ! ! I am happy for you too, I know it has been a long haul for you ! ! Ya know, sometimes it seems like forever but when we finally find something that works, it is so nice. I pray for your continued healing ! Hugs Dede**************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Thanks Dede! I'm just so happy that I'm finally feeling a bit better even if it did take a long time to get to this point. From: DGRAHAMA@... <DGRAHAMA@...>Subject: Re: Pancreatic Enzymes Date: Wednesday, July 30, 2008, 8:12 AM Beth ~ Thank you for sharing your story withus. Very helpful information ! ! I am sorryyou had to deal with that so long. It is sonice you have found a remady ! ! HugsDede************ **Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today.(http://www. fanhouse. com/fantasyaffai r?ncid=aolspr000 50000000020) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Beth my dear- How did you know you weren't digesting your food?? Did you have lots of big D? ~Krista > > From: DGRAHAMA@... <DGRAHAMA@...> > Subject: Re: Pancreatic Enzymes > > Date: Wednesday, July 30, 2008, 8:12 AM > > > > > > > Beth ~ > > Thank you for sharing your story with > us. Very helpful information ! ! I am sorry > you had to deal with that so long. It is so > nice you have found a remady ! ! > > Hugs > Dede > > > ************ ** > Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. > (http://www. fanhouse. com/fantasyaffai r?ncid=aolspr000 50000000020) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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