a really good non-dieting obesity resource...

[Guest guest]

Hi, all,

I know this might not apply to all of you, but I figure it will for some. I ran

across Dr. Sara Stein's blog and book. She is formerly morbidly obese herself

and has lost 90 lbs slowly through changing things over time. She is also a

psychiatrist for bariatric patients.

She has some interesting/controversial views on how much intuitive eating can

help obese folks (who have myriad other issues), but she takes a non-diet

approach. Anyhow, if the mods allow, I wanted to post this as it lines up with a

lot of what I'm learning about myself (vitamin D deficient, B deficient,

emotional eater, sensitive to certain foods) as I get into better balance.

Interestingly, I'm finally starting to lose some weight without a big fight

after I've worked on some of these nutritional deficiencies for the past few

months, among other things. I cannot recommend having a blood work panel done

enough. It was the start to my better results...

http://obesefromtheheart.com/the-blog/

Best,

[Guest guest]

With the caveat that I'm reading WFG right now and am really getting a lot out

of it, so I may be in the honeymoon blinders stage, here's my concern about

critiques like this one (and let me add that as I've been reading the book, I've

been perusing the internet for other critiques of the book and have found

several that echo this theme). It seems to me that this critique is written by

someone who has not actually read the book all the way through, if at all.

IMO, the primary theme of WFG is that conquering your emotional eating takes you

a long way toward addressing your weight problems. BUT, it's not the only

message. There's a chapter entitled something along the lines of " It's Not

About the Weight, But It's Not Not About the Weight, " in which Geneen talks

about the fact that if you are morbidly obese to the extent that you cannot move

comfortably or that it is negatively affecting your health, you have to address

those problems. And later in the book (sorry, can't remember the chapter off

the top of my head), she talks about the fact that part of taking care of

yourself may mean that you need to seek help from a doctor or a nutritionist or

some other professional to address other health issues that you are dealing

with. Finally, she also talks about nutrition and says that eating what your

body needs is not the same as eating whatever your head wants. She points out

that your body wants to be nourished with healthy foods, it doesn't want endless

brownies. So part of truly listening to your body is learning to nourish it.

If you're snarfing down gobs of sugar and caffeine and HFC and you feel

lethargic and heavy and sick all the time, then you're body is telling you

that's not what it wants, but you're not listening to it. The book references

over and over again that you have to take care of your body and that care

includes things like exercise and good nutrition and all the rest.

I would also add that there's a funny story that Geneen recounts in the book

where she says a friend of hers goes to a family wedding and when a cousin

discovers that she's friends with Geneen, the cousin tells her furiously how mad

she is because she followed the guidelines in one of her book and ended up

gaining 100 pounds in a year. Geneen responds to her friend that she's sure her

cousin *thinks* she was following the guidelines in the book, but she wasn't

because nowhere in the book does Geneen endorse compulsive eating and gaining

100 pounds in a year is nothing but compulsive eating.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I have yet to read a negative review where

the critic appears to have actually read all of what Geneen endorses. They're

critiquing what they *think* the book is all about, but they haven't really done

their homework. We all know that TV is all about sound bites that capture

people's attention to draw them in, but that it rarely does more than scratch

the surface of any issue. But I think that critics that poo poo what Geneen is

teaching based only on the title of the book or a 60 minute Oprah episode, are

doing their readers a disservice. Because a lot of people will choose to only

rely on that person's opinion and not explore it for themselves, when really

they might have been helped by this approach, when incorporating it with other

steps like exercise and good nutrition and supplementation.

Just my $0.02....

Josie

>

> > http://obesefromtheheart.com/the-blog/

>

> This part kind of describes my frustration quite well:

>

> " Now…does that sound like ' " only eat when you're hungry in a quiet room

> focused on food " is really going to make a difference?? Treating morbid

> obesity with emotional eating techniques is the same as treating

> cirrhosis of the liver with 12-step programs. The proverbial peeing in

> the ocean. "

>

>

> Also a nice quote:

>

> " There is hope and healing from obesity. One medical condition at a

> time. Give your emotional soul a rest. "

>

> Best wishes

> styxia

>

[Guest guest]

It's not an either/or thing, as Josie says; nothing in Geneen's book indicates that she thinks she's giving the full program for how you recover. Instead, she points out again and again that the journey for each person will be different, and that nutrition is a part of recovery that each person will come to in her own way, as is taking care of your body through exercise that you enjoy and that is not punishing.

The derisive dismissiveness of Geneen's work by this psychiatrist is, in my opinion, unhelpful and unkind. As one who went the (very expensive) route of a full medical program that included regular bloodwork of every imaginable kind (including vitamin deficiencies, heavy metal overloads, hormonal imbalances, and on and on and on), and therapy of several kinds to go along with it, and consults with a nutritionist, and STILL gained weight all the while, I know that there's no one answer that fits everyone. What I like about Geneen is that she knows that, too. All she does is point to a path. She's not telling you to do any one thing in particular except to find a way to listen to and to learn to trust yourself. I've had it with people who think they have all the answers. They don't know me and don't know my body. Heck, *I'm* just getting to know myself and my own body after 59 years!

The comparison of treating obesity to treating cirrhosis of the liver is telling: Many, many alcoholics *do* in fact *only* find healing of their alcohol-related health problems by first finding the willingness to stop killing themselves with alcohol by going to twelve step programs. Until we *want* to stop overeating (or as Geneen says, until we address those "exquisitely good reasons" why we overeat), all the vitamin shots and pills and good nutrition in the world won't start healing the medical problems that underly obesity, because we'll keep piling on the pounds and feeding our obesity, and along with it, all the medical imbalances that attend it.

Laurie

Thanks, Josie, for clarifying what Geneen Roth REALLY says in WFG. I haven't posted on this board for a long time, because I can't relate to what most people post here anymore. However, I've read WFG several times. After watching Geneen on Oprah again this week, I began to reread that book with a highlighter pen. What you said was right on. I especially like your paragraph which began "I guess what I'm trying to say is, I have yet to read a negative review where the critic appears to have actually read all of what Geneen endorses. They're critiquing what they *think* the book is all about, but they haven't really done their homework."

I believe Geneen wrote that book to help all the people who say they tried intuitive eating or dumped the diet mentality and then continued to gain weight or use food to cope with everything except hunger. "Dumping the diet mentality" gave some people free license to binge and/or graze, rather than find their hunger cues, listen to what their bodies really want and discover and honor their satisfaction and fullness cues. Others rejected suggestions about eating when hungry, stopping when full, etc., but heartily endorsed the eat anything you want (and added anytime and anywhere they wanted). After receiving many letters from her workshop participants who said her intuitive eating approach did NOT help them, Geneen wrote that book to address why those people could not (or would not) follow intuitive eating guidelines.

SUE

> >

> > > http://obesefromtheheart.com/the-blog/

> >

> > This part kind of describes my frustration quite well:

> >

> > "Now…does that sound like '"only eat when you're hungry in a quiet room

> > focused on food" is really going to make a difference?? Treating morbid

> > obesity with emotional eating techniques is the same as treating

> > cirrhosis of the liver with 12-step programs. The proverbial peeing in

> > the ocean. "

> >

> >

> > Also a nice quote:

> >

> > "There is hope and healing from obesity. One medical condition at a

> > time. Give your emotional soul a rest."

> >

> > Best wishes

> > styxia

[Guest guest]

It's not an either/or thing, as Josie says; nothing in Geneen's book indicates that she thinks she's giving the full program for how you recover. Instead, she points out again and again that the journey for each person will be different, and that nutrition is a part of recovery that each person will come to in her own way, as is taking care of your body through exercise that you enjoy and that is not punishing.

The derisive dismissiveness of Geneen's work by this psychiatrist is, in my opinion, unhelpful and unkind. As one who went the (very expensive) route of a full medical program that included regular bloodwork of every imaginable kind (including vitamin deficiencies, heavy metal overloads, hormonal imbalances, and on and on and on), and therapy of several kinds to go along with it, and consults with a nutritionist, and STILL gained weight all the while, I know that there's no one answer that fits everyone. What I like about Geneen is that she knows that, too. All she does is point to a path. She's not telling you to do any one thing in particular except to find a way to listen to and to learn to trust yourself. I've had it with people who think they have all the answers. They don't know me and don't know my body. Heck, *I'm* just getting to know myself and my own body after 59 years!

The comparison of treating obesity to treating cirrhosis of the liver is telling: Many, many alcoholics *do* in fact *only* find healing of their alcohol-related health problems by first finding the willingness to stop killing themselves with alcohol by going to twelve step programs. Until we *want* to stop overeating (or as Geneen says, until we address those "exquisitely good reasons" why we overeat), all the vitamin shots and pills and good nutrition in the world won't start healing the medical problems that underly obesity, because we'll keep piling on the pounds and feeding our obesity, and along with it, all the medical imbalances that attend it.

Laurie

Thanks, Josie, for clarifying what Geneen Roth REALLY says in WFG. I haven't posted on this board for a long time, because I can't relate to what most people post here anymore. However, I've read WFG several times. After watching Geneen on Oprah again this week, I began to reread that book with a highlighter pen. What you said was right on. I especially like your paragraph which began "I guess what I'm trying to say is, I have yet to read a negative review where the critic appears to have actually read all of what Geneen endorses. They're critiquing what they *think* the book is all about, but they haven't really done their homework."

I believe Geneen wrote that book to help all the people who say they tried intuitive eating or dumped the diet mentality and then continued to gain weight or use food to cope with everything except hunger. "Dumping the diet mentality" gave some people free license to binge and/or graze, rather than find their hunger cues, listen to what their bodies really want and discover and honor their satisfaction and fullness cues. Others rejected suggestions about eating when hungry, stopping when full, etc., but heartily endorsed the eat anything you want (and added anytime and anywhere they wanted). After receiving many letters from her workshop participants who said her intuitive eating approach did NOT help them, Geneen wrote that book to address why those people could not (or would not) follow intuitive eating guidelines.

SUE

> >

> > > http://obesefromtheheart.com/the-blog/

> >

> > This part kind of describes my frustration quite well:

> >

> > "Now…does that sound like '"only eat when you're hungry in a quiet room

> > focused on food" is really going to make a difference?? Treating morbid

> > obesity with emotional eating techniques is the same as treating

> > cirrhosis of the liver with 12-step programs. The proverbial peeing in

> > the ocean. "

> >

> >

> > Also a nice quote:

> >

> > "There is hope and healing from obesity. One medical condition at a

> > time. Give your emotional soul a rest."

> >

> > Best wishes

> > styxia