RE: City / County Ordinances

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/15/2005 9:11:02 A.M. Central Standard Time,

bwoodward@... writes:

You really don't need an ordinance to stop that. Inform you law

enforcement agency about the problem. You can enforce an ordinance that

requires private services to obtain permission to run code through your

city. The City of San has an ordinance that requires privates

to obtain code 3 clearance through their EMS dispatch.

Some cities (San included) don't respond to nursing homes for

residents, regardless of the situation, part of that is because the call

is turned in as a transfer (one medical facility to another and SAEMS

does not provide transfers). You might educate your nursing homes

facilities that in the event of a true emergency your system will

provide that service at a much better level of care and response times

will be greatly enhanced. Most nursing homes have contracts with the

privates for the non-emergencies and inorder to keep those contract they

tend to give the privates their emergency calls too!

BH

City / County Ordinances

I am searching for anyone that has an ordinance prohibiting private

ambulance services from responding Code 3 to a non emergent call.

We are having an increase in private services responding to nursing

homes

Code 3. In my opinion should the patient require a Code 3 response from

a

private provider, they meet criteria for the local 911 service.

Thank you in advance for any help. Please email me privately.

Peggy Fonseca, EMT-P, CCEMT-P, FP-C

Goliad County EMS Administrator

P.O. Box 938

Goliad, Tx 77963

(fax)

CONFIDENTIAL & PRIVILEGED

Unless otherwise indicated or obvious from the nature of the following

communication, the information contained herein is privileged and

confidential

information/work product. The communication is intended for the use of

the

individual or entity named above.

If the reader of this transmission is not the intended recipient, you

are

hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this

communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

communication in

error or are not sure whether it is privileged, please immediately

notify us by

return e-mail and destroy any copies, electronic, paper or otherwise,

which

you may have of this communication.

My question would be whether the county has the authority to craft such a

ordinance. The city should have this authority. My advice would be to check

with the county attorney and the city attorney.

However, the easiest solution is to educate the nursing home staff about how

to use 911 appropriately.

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/15/2005 9:11:02 A.M. Central Standard Time,

bwoodward@... writes:

You really don't need an ordinance to stop that. Inform you law

enforcement agency about the problem. You can enforce an ordinance that

requires private services to obtain permission to run code through your

city. The City of San has an ordinance that requires privates

to obtain code 3 clearance through their EMS dispatch.

Some cities (San included) don't respond to nursing homes for

residents, regardless of the situation, part of that is because the call

is turned in as a transfer (one medical facility to another and SAEMS

does not provide transfers). You might educate your nursing homes

facilities that in the event of a true emergency your system will

provide that service at a much better level of care and response times

will be greatly enhanced. Most nursing homes have contracts with the

privates for the non-emergencies and inorder to keep those contract they

tend to give the privates their emergency calls too!

BH

City / County Ordinances

I am searching for anyone that has an ordinance prohibiting private

ambulance services from responding Code 3 to a non emergent call.

We are having an increase in private services responding to nursing

homes

Code 3. In my opinion should the patient require a Code 3 response from

a

private provider, they meet criteria for the local 911 service.

Thank you in advance for any help. Please email me privately.

Peggy Fonseca, EMT-P, CCEMT-P, FP-C

Goliad County EMS Administrator

P.O. Box 938

Goliad, Tx 77963

(fax)

CONFIDENTIAL & PRIVILEGED

Unless otherwise indicated or obvious from the nature of the following

communication, the information contained herein is privileged and

confidential

information/work product. The communication is intended for the use of

the

individual or entity named above.

If the reader of this transmission is not the intended recipient, you

are

hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this

communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

communication in

error or are not sure whether it is privileged, please immediately

notify us by

return e-mail and destroy any copies, electronic, paper or otherwise,

which

you may have of this communication.

My question would be whether the county has the authority to craft such a

ordinance. The city should have this authority. My advice would be to check

with the county attorney and the city attorney.

However, the easiest solution is to educate the nursing home staff about how

to use 911 appropriately.

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/15/2005 9:11:02 A.M. Central Standard Time,

bwoodward@... writes:

You really don't need an ordinance to stop that. Inform you law

enforcement agency about the problem. You can enforce an ordinance that

requires private services to obtain permission to run code through your

city. The City of San has an ordinance that requires privates

to obtain code 3 clearance through their EMS dispatch.

Some cities (San included) don't respond to nursing homes for

residents, regardless of the situation, part of that is because the call

is turned in as a transfer (one medical facility to another and SAEMS

does not provide transfers). You might educate your nursing homes

facilities that in the event of a true emergency your system will

provide that service at a much better level of care and response times

will be greatly enhanced. Most nursing homes have contracts with the

privates for the non-emergencies and inorder to keep those contract they

tend to give the privates their emergency calls too!

BH

City / County Ordinances

I am searching for anyone that has an ordinance prohibiting private

ambulance services from responding Code 3 to a non emergent call.

We are having an increase in private services responding to nursing

homes

Code 3. In my opinion should the patient require a Code 3 response from

a

private provider, they meet criteria for the local 911 service.

Thank you in advance for any help. Please email me privately.

Peggy Fonseca, EMT-P, CCEMT-P, FP-C

Goliad County EMS Administrator

P.O. Box 938

Goliad, Tx 77963

(fax)

CONFIDENTIAL & PRIVILEGED

Unless otherwise indicated or obvious from the nature of the following

communication, the information contained herein is privileged and

confidential

information/work product. The communication is intended for the use of

the

individual or entity named above.

If the reader of this transmission is not the intended recipient, you

are

hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this

communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

communication in

error or are not sure whether it is privileged, please immediately

notify us by

return e-mail and destroy any copies, electronic, paper or otherwise,

which

you may have of this communication.

My question would be whether the county has the authority to craft such a

ordinance. The city should have this authority. My advice would be to check

with the county attorney and the city attorney.

However, the easiest solution is to educate the nursing home staff about how

to use 911 appropriately.

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B

[Guest guest]

You really don't need an ordinance to stop that. Inform you law

enforcement agency about the problem. You can enforce an ordinance that

requires private services to obtain permission to run code through your

city. The City of San has an ordinance that requires privates

to obtain code 3 clearance through their EMS dispatch.

Some cities (San included) don't respond to nursing homes for

residents, regardless of the situation, part of that is because the call

is turned in as a transfer (one medical facility to another and SAEMS

does not provide transfers). You might educate your nursing homes

facilities that in the event of a true emergency your system will

provide that service at a much better level of care and response times

will be greatly enhanced. Most nursing homes have contracts with the

privates for the non-emergencies and inorder to keep those contract they

tend to give the privates their emergency calls too!

BH

City / County Ordinances

I am searching for anyone that has an ordinance prohibiting private

ambulance services from responding Code 3 to a non emergent call.

We are having an increase in private services responding to nursing

homes

Code 3. In my opinion should the patient require a Code 3 response from

a

private provider, they meet criteria for the local 911 service.

Thank you in advance for any help. Please email me privately.

Peggy Fonseca, EMT-P, CCEMT-P, FP-C

Goliad County EMS Administrator

P.O. Box 938

Goliad, Tx 77963

(fax)

CONFIDENTIAL & PRIVILEGED

Unless otherwise indicated or obvious from the nature of the following

communication, the information contained herein is privileged and

confidential

information/work product. The communication is intended for the use of

the

individual or entity named above.

If the reader of this transmission is not the intended recipient, you

are

hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this

communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

communication in

error or are not sure whether it is privileged, please immediately

notify us by

return e-mail and destroy any copies, electronic, paper or otherwise,

which

you may have of this communication.

[Guest guest]

You really don't need an ordinance to stop that. Inform you law

enforcement agency about the problem. You can enforce an ordinance that

requires private services to obtain permission to run code through your

city. The City of San has an ordinance that requires privates

to obtain code 3 clearance through their EMS dispatch.

Some cities (San included) don't respond to nursing homes for

residents, regardless of the situation, part of that is because the call

is turned in as a transfer (one medical facility to another and SAEMS

does not provide transfers). You might educate your nursing homes

facilities that in the event of a true emergency your system will

provide that service at a much better level of care and response times

will be greatly enhanced. Most nursing homes have contracts with the

privates for the non-emergencies and inorder to keep those contract they

tend to give the privates their emergency calls too!

BH

City / County Ordinances

I am searching for anyone that has an ordinance prohibiting private

ambulance services from responding Code 3 to a non emergent call.

We are having an increase in private services responding to nursing

homes

Code 3. In my opinion should the patient require a Code 3 response from

a

private provider, they meet criteria for the local 911 service.

Thank you in advance for any help. Please email me privately.

Peggy Fonseca, EMT-P, CCEMT-P, FP-C

Goliad County EMS Administrator

P.O. Box 938

Goliad, Tx 77963

(fax)

CONFIDENTIAL & PRIVILEGED

Unless otherwise indicated or obvious from the nature of the following

communication, the information contained herein is privileged and

confidential

information/work product. The communication is intended for the use of

the

individual or entity named above.

If the reader of this transmission is not the intended recipient, you

are

hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this

communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

communication in

error or are not sure whether it is privileged, please immediately

notify us by

return e-mail and destroy any copies, electronic, paper or otherwise,

which

you may have of this communication.

[Guest guest]

You really don't need an ordinance to stop that. Inform you law

enforcement agency about the problem. You can enforce an ordinance that

requires private services to obtain permission to run code through your

city. The City of San has an ordinance that requires privates

to obtain code 3 clearance through their EMS dispatch.

Some cities (San included) don't respond to nursing homes for

residents, regardless of the situation, part of that is because the call

is turned in as a transfer (one medical facility to another and SAEMS

does not provide transfers). You might educate your nursing homes

facilities that in the event of a true emergency your system will

provide that service at a much better level of care and response times

will be greatly enhanced. Most nursing homes have contracts with the

privates for the non-emergencies and inorder to keep those contract they

tend to give the privates their emergency calls too!

BH

City / County Ordinances

I am searching for anyone that has an ordinance prohibiting private

ambulance services from responding Code 3 to a non emergent call.

We are having an increase in private services responding to nursing

homes

Code 3. In my opinion should the patient require a Code 3 response from

a

private provider, they meet criteria for the local 911 service.

Thank you in advance for any help. Please email me privately.

Peggy Fonseca, EMT-P, CCEMT-P, FP-C

Goliad County EMS Administrator

P.O. Box 938

Goliad, Tx 77963

(fax)

CONFIDENTIAL & PRIVILEGED

Unless otherwise indicated or obvious from the nature of the following

communication, the information contained herein is privileged and

confidential

information/work product. The communication is intended for the use of

the

individual or entity named above.

If the reader of this transmission is not the intended recipient, you

are

hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this

communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

communication in

error or are not sure whether it is privileged, please immediately

notify us by

return e-mail and destroy any copies, electronic, paper or otherwise,

which

you may have of this communication.

[Guest guest]

Below is a copy of the City of San ordinance concerning the running of

code 3 calls.

Naughton, Assistant Fire Chief

Shavano Park FD

mnaughton@...

Sec. 19-339. Emergency ambulance calls.

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person other than a member of the fire

department, emergency medical services division to operate, drive, or cause to

be operated or driven any ambulance on the streets of the city for the purpose

of furnishing emergency ambulance service, or to furnish or attempt to furnish

emergency ambulance service in the city.

( It is an affirmative defense to prosecution that the site of an

emergency is outside of the area served by the city emergency medical services

system, and the emergency ambulance is operating on city streets only for the

purpose of responding to an emergency site so located for transporting the

victim(s) to a medical facility.

© It is an affirmative defense to prosecution that the driver of such an

ambulance is operating same pursuant to a contract for maintaining an ambulance

at a particular location or event for the purpose of transporting sick or

injured persons for medical or hospital treatment.

(d) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution that the site of an

emergency is inside the area served by the city emergency medical services

system, but permission has been received from the emergency medical service

dispatcher to make such emergency run. Upon receipt of a request to make such an

emergency run, the dispatcher shall grant such permission if no other ambulance,

public or private, has been previously dispatched to the emergency scene.

(Code 1959, § 38-36.1; Ord. No. 35006, §§ 1--3, 12-1-66; Ord. No. 35537, §§

1--3, 6-22-67; Ord. No. 43411, § 7, 2-21-74; Ord. No. 44606, § 1, 11-14-74)

_____

From: B Woodward

Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 08:50

To:

Subject: RE: City / County Ordinances

You really don't need an ordinance to stop that. Inform you law

enforcement agency about the problem. You can enforce an ordinance that

requires private services to obtain permission to run code through your

city. The City of San has an ordinance that requires privates

to obtain code 3 clearance through their EMS dispatch.

Some cities (San included) don't respond to nursing homes for

residents, regardless of the situation, part of that is because the call

is turned in as a transfer (one medical facility to another and SAEMS

does not provide transfers). You might educate your nursing homes

facilities that in the event of a true emergency your system will

provide that service at a much better level of care and response times

will be greatly enhanced. Most nursing homes have contracts with the

privates for the non-emergencies and inorder to keep those contract they

tend to give the privates their emergency calls too!

BH

City / County Ordinances

I am searching for anyone that has an ordinance prohibiting private

ambulance services from responding Code 3 to a non emergent call.

We are having an increase in private services responding to nursing

homes

Code 3. In my opinion should the patient require a Code 3 response from

a

private provider, they meet criteria for the local 911 service.

Thank you in advance for any help. Please email me privately.

Peggy Fonseca, EMT-P, CCEMT-P, FP-C

Goliad County EMS Administrator

P.O. Box 938

Goliad, Tx 77963

(fax)

CONFIDENTIAL & PRIVILEGED

Unless otherwise indicated or obvious from the nature of the following

communication, the information contained herein is privileged and

confidential

information/work product. The communication is intended for the use of

the

individual or entity named above.

If the reader of this transmission is not the intended recipient, you

are

hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this

communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

communication in

error or are not sure whether it is privileged, please immediately

notify us by

return e-mail and destroy any copies, electronic, paper or otherwise,

which

you may have of this communication.

[Guest guest]

Below is a copy of the City of San ordinance concerning the running of

code 3 calls.

Naughton, Assistant Fire Chief

Shavano Park FD

mnaughton@...

Sec. 19-339. Emergency ambulance calls.

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person other than a member of the fire

department, emergency medical services division to operate, drive, or cause to

be operated or driven any ambulance on the streets of the city for the purpose

of furnishing emergency ambulance service, or to furnish or attempt to furnish

emergency ambulance service in the city.

( It is an affirmative defense to prosecution that the site of an

emergency is outside of the area served by the city emergency medical services

system, and the emergency ambulance is operating on city streets only for the

purpose of responding to an emergency site so located for transporting the

victim(s) to a medical facility.

© It is an affirmative defense to prosecution that the driver of such an

ambulance is operating same pursuant to a contract for maintaining an ambulance

at a particular location or event for the purpose of transporting sick or

injured persons for medical or hospital treatment.

(d) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution that the site of an

emergency is inside the area served by the city emergency medical services

system, but permission has been received from the emergency medical service

dispatcher to make such emergency run. Upon receipt of a request to make such an

emergency run, the dispatcher shall grant such permission if no other ambulance,

public or private, has been previously dispatched to the emergency scene.

(Code 1959, § 38-36.1; Ord. No. 35006, §§ 1--3, 12-1-66; Ord. No. 35537, §§

1--3, 6-22-67; Ord. No. 43411, § 7, 2-21-74; Ord. No. 44606, § 1, 11-14-74)

_____

From: B Woodward

Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 08:50

To:

Subject: RE: City / County Ordinances

You really don't need an ordinance to stop that. Inform you law

enforcement agency about the problem. You can enforce an ordinance that

requires private services to obtain permission to run code through your

city. The City of San has an ordinance that requires privates

to obtain code 3 clearance through their EMS dispatch.

Some cities (San included) don't respond to nursing homes for

residents, regardless of the situation, part of that is because the call

is turned in as a transfer (one medical facility to another and SAEMS

does not provide transfers). You might educate your nursing homes

facilities that in the event of a true emergency your system will

provide that service at a much better level of care and response times

will be greatly enhanced. Most nursing homes have contracts with the

privates for the non-emergencies and inorder to keep those contract they

tend to give the privates their emergency calls too!

BH

City / County Ordinances

I am searching for anyone that has an ordinance prohibiting private

ambulance services from responding Code 3 to a non emergent call.

We are having an increase in private services responding to nursing

homes

Code 3. In my opinion should the patient require a Code 3 response from

a

private provider, they meet criteria for the local 911 service.

Thank you in advance for any help. Please email me privately.

Peggy Fonseca, EMT-P, CCEMT-P, FP-C

Goliad County EMS Administrator

P.O. Box 938

Goliad, Tx 77963

(fax)

CONFIDENTIAL & PRIVILEGED

Unless otherwise indicated or obvious from the nature of the following

communication, the information contained herein is privileged and

confidential

information/work product. The communication is intended for the use of

the

individual or entity named above.

If the reader of this transmission is not the intended recipient, you

are

hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this

communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

communication in

error or are not sure whether it is privileged, please immediately

notify us by

return e-mail and destroy any copies, electronic, paper or otherwise,

which

you may have of this communication.

[Guest guest]

Below is a copy of the City of San ordinance concerning the running of

code 3 calls.

Naughton, Assistant Fire Chief

Shavano Park FD

mnaughton@...

Sec. 19-339. Emergency ambulance calls.

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person other than a member of the fire

department, emergency medical services division to operate, drive, or cause to

be operated or driven any ambulance on the streets of the city for the purpose

of furnishing emergency ambulance service, or to furnish or attempt to furnish

emergency ambulance service in the city.

( It is an affirmative defense to prosecution that the site of an

emergency is outside of the area served by the city emergency medical services

system, and the emergency ambulance is operating on city streets only for the

purpose of responding to an emergency site so located for transporting the

victim(s) to a medical facility.

© It is an affirmative defense to prosecution that the driver of such an

ambulance is operating same pursuant to a contract for maintaining an ambulance

at a particular location or event for the purpose of transporting sick or

injured persons for medical or hospital treatment.

(d) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution that the site of an

emergency is inside the area served by the city emergency medical services

system, but permission has been received from the emergency medical service

dispatcher to make such emergency run. Upon receipt of a request to make such an

emergency run, the dispatcher shall grant such permission if no other ambulance,

public or private, has been previously dispatched to the emergency scene.

(Code 1959, § 38-36.1; Ord. No. 35006, §§ 1--3, 12-1-66; Ord. No. 35537, §§

1--3, 6-22-67; Ord. No. 43411, § 7, 2-21-74; Ord. No. 44606, § 1, 11-14-74)

_____

From: B Woodward

Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 08:50

To:

Subject: RE: City / County Ordinances

You really don't need an ordinance to stop that. Inform you law

enforcement agency about the problem. You can enforce an ordinance that

requires private services to obtain permission to run code through your

city. The City of San has an ordinance that requires privates

to obtain code 3 clearance through their EMS dispatch.

Some cities (San included) don't respond to nursing homes for

residents, regardless of the situation, part of that is because the call

is turned in as a transfer (one medical facility to another and SAEMS

does not provide transfers). You might educate your nursing homes

facilities that in the event of a true emergency your system will

provide that service at a much better level of care and response times

will be greatly enhanced. Most nursing homes have contracts with the

privates for the non-emergencies and inorder to keep those contract they

tend to give the privates their emergency calls too!

BH

City / County Ordinances

I am searching for anyone that has an ordinance prohibiting private

ambulance services from responding Code 3 to a non emergent call.

We are having an increase in private services responding to nursing

homes

Code 3. In my opinion should the patient require a Code 3 response from

a

private provider, they meet criteria for the local 911 service.

Thank you in advance for any help. Please email me privately.

Peggy Fonseca, EMT-P, CCEMT-P, FP-C

Goliad County EMS Administrator

P.O. Box 938

Goliad, Tx 77963

(fax)

CONFIDENTIAL & PRIVILEGED

Unless otherwise indicated or obvious from the nature of the following

communication, the information contained herein is privileged and

confidential

information/work product. The communication is intended for the use of

the

individual or entity named above.

If the reader of this transmission is not the intended recipient, you

are

hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this

communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

communication in

error or are not sure whether it is privileged, please immediately

notify us by

return e-mail and destroy any copies, electronic, paper or otherwise,

which

you may have of this communication.

[Guest guest]

Dr. Bledsoe,

Could we get a waiver to come into Midlothian? Our

dispatcher (hire PD) received a call a couple of weeks

ago, requesting an ambulance. The call came from a

Midlothian number and the request was for a patient at an

address in Midlothian. Seem the 9-1-1 screen showed the

correct agencies for fire and EMS, but showed our PD as the

law enforcement agency for that number, so someone somewhere

saw hire PD on the screen and forwarded the call here.

Needless to say, we declined the call and our dispatcher sent

the call back to Midlothian.

We don't mind providing mutual aid, but that would have been

a little far.

Maxine Pate

hire-Pattison EMS

---- Original message ----

>Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:46:58 -0600

>

>

> A private service can pick up in Fort Worth as long

> as they deliver outside

> the AMAA service area. The helicopter programs have

> waivers.

>

> E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> Midlothian, TX

>

[Guest guest]

Dr. Bledsoe,

Could we get a waiver to come into Midlothian? Our

dispatcher (hire PD) received a call a couple of weeks

ago, requesting an ambulance. The call came from a

Midlothian number and the request was for a patient at an

address in Midlothian. Seem the 9-1-1 screen showed the

correct agencies for fire and EMS, but showed our PD as the

law enforcement agency for that number, so someone somewhere

saw hire PD on the screen and forwarded the call here.

Needless to say, we declined the call and our dispatcher sent

the call back to Midlothian.

We don't mind providing mutual aid, but that would have been

a little far.

Maxine Pate

hire-Pattison EMS

---- Original message ----

>Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:46:58 -0600

>

>

> A private service can pick up in Fort Worth as long

> as they deliver outside

> the AMAA service area. The helicopter programs have

> waivers.

>

> E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> Midlothian, TX

>

[Guest guest]

Dr. Bledsoe,

Could we get a waiver to come into Midlothian? Our

dispatcher (hire PD) received a call a couple of weeks

ago, requesting an ambulance. The call came from a

Midlothian number and the request was for a patient at an

address in Midlothian. Seem the 9-1-1 screen showed the

correct agencies for fire and EMS, but showed our PD as the

law enforcement agency for that number, so someone somewhere

saw hire PD on the screen and forwarded the call here.

Needless to say, we declined the call and our dispatcher sent

the call back to Midlothian.

We don't mind providing mutual aid, but that would have been

a little far.

Maxine Pate

hire-Pattison EMS

---- Original message ----

>Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:46:58 -0600

>

>

> A private service can pick up in Fort Worth as long

> as they deliver outside

> the AMAA service area. The helicopter programs have

> waivers.

>

> E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> Midlothian, TX

>

[Guest guest]

The one thing I've noticed about this list server is that few truly try

and understand where the writer is coming from, and since most of us

don't have the time to compose lengthy responses, we don't always make

ourselves clear (me included).

I wasn't suggesting that the police stop every ambulance that is running

code. I was suggesting that if you have a problem in your area where

the transfer services run hot more than is the norm, maybe suggest that

your law enforcement agency check into it. Yes, Private transfer

services are considered emergency vehicles, but that doesn't mean you

can run hot to every call made. Many calls for transfer services are

scheduled (that is not an emergency). If a service is abusing the

lights and sirens portion of the Emergency Vehicle Code, it is easily

check. The Law Enforcement agency can follow the vehicle. If it is

taking a patient back to the SNF, obviously that is not an emergency,

cite them, if the patient is going to a routine out patient clinic or

straight to a ward, that too is not an emergency. I don't have

heartburn for anyone running hot when it is appropriate, but I do when

there is no emergency and especially if there never was an emergency.

That type of response puts us all at risk physically and public

relations wise. Let's face it, if a private ambulance has a serious

accident where people are injuried or killed, you think the media is

going to make sure the public knows it was a private. It will show your

areas 911 provider and state the local EMS did this and that something

needs to be done.

Most of us in Public 911 services (are at least many of us) are required

to participate in EVOC or similar type training. We do and it helps

prevent some of the accidents. Most of us who've been around realize

that running hot doesn't really get you there any faster, just with more

noise and lights. I would care to say that I can get an ambulance from

point A to point B in about the same amount of time at the individual

running hot and I can do it without the noise or light show.

Again, the biggest issue I see is running hot when it isn't warranted

and not utilizing the assetts available to the fullest.

This is my opinion and after being in this line of business (Fire and

EMS) from rookie to manager for 27 years, I think I know what I'm

talking about.

BH

Re: City / County Ordinances

>

> You really don't need an ordinance to stop that. Inform you law

> enforcement agency about the problem. You can enforce an ordinance

> that requires private services to obtain permission to run code

> through your city.

I don't know that Texas law actually allows this. The transportation

code explicitly gives permission for emergency vehicles to use lights

and sirens while responding to an emergency call (and I would suspect

that case law broadens that to the response from the scene to the

hospital, but the actual law does NOT specify that). I don't know that

cities can override state law in this regard.

On the other hand, state law EXPLICITLY allows cities to create

ordinances with regards to the speed of emergency vehicles through a

city. I would challenge you, however, to find a city that applies that

ordinance equally and fairly to private AND governmental emergency

service vehicles alike. If it's not enforced equally, those cities

risk their ordinance being struck down by higher courts.

Either way, the worst offense here is a traffic code violation, and I

don't know too many cops who are going to take the time to follow

ambulances through their cities and issue them citations - especially

when the police have NO WAY of determining whether or not the ambulance

is actually responding to an emergency call - at least not in any

amount of time that's going to interest the average patrol officer.

Police agencies are understaffed and overworked, for the most part.

Chasing ambulances isn't something most are likely to do. This will

only come into play in the accident investigation when/if an ambulance

gets into a collision and the officer has to write the ST-3 and

possibly issue citations to the drivers of the units involved.

Mike

[Guest guest]

The one thing I've noticed about this list server is that few truly try

and understand where the writer is coming from, and since most of us

don't have the time to compose lengthy responses, we don't always make

ourselves clear (me included).

I wasn't suggesting that the police stop every ambulance that is running

code. I was suggesting that if you have a problem in your area where

the transfer services run hot more than is the norm, maybe suggest that

your law enforcement agency check into it. Yes, Private transfer

services are considered emergency vehicles, but that doesn't mean you

can run hot to every call made. Many calls for transfer services are

scheduled (that is not an emergency). If a service is abusing the

lights and sirens portion of the Emergency Vehicle Code, it is easily

check. The Law Enforcement agency can follow the vehicle. If it is

taking a patient back to the SNF, obviously that is not an emergency,

cite them, if the patient is going to a routine out patient clinic or

straight to a ward, that too is not an emergency. I don't have

heartburn for anyone running hot when it is appropriate, but I do when

there is no emergency and especially if there never was an emergency.

That type of response puts us all at risk physically and public

relations wise. Let's face it, if a private ambulance has a serious

accident where people are injuried or killed, you think the media is

going to make sure the public knows it was a private. It will show your

areas 911 provider and state the local EMS did this and that something

needs to be done.

Most of us in Public 911 services (are at least many of us) are required

to participate in EVOC or similar type training. We do and it helps

prevent some of the accidents. Most of us who've been around realize

that running hot doesn't really get you there any faster, just with more

noise and lights. I would care to say that I can get an ambulance from

point A to point B in about the same amount of time at the individual

running hot and I can do it without the noise or light show.

Again, the biggest issue I see is running hot when it isn't warranted

and not utilizing the assetts available to the fullest.

This is my opinion and after being in this line of business (Fire and

EMS) from rookie to manager for 27 years, I think I know what I'm

talking about.

BH

Re: City / County Ordinances

>

> You really don't need an ordinance to stop that. Inform you law

> enforcement agency about the problem. You can enforce an ordinance

> that requires private services to obtain permission to run code

> through your city.

I don't know that Texas law actually allows this. The transportation

code explicitly gives permission for emergency vehicles to use lights

and sirens while responding to an emergency call (and I would suspect

that case law broadens that to the response from the scene to the

hospital, but the actual law does NOT specify that). I don't know that

cities can override state law in this regard.

On the other hand, state law EXPLICITLY allows cities to create

ordinances with regards to the speed of emergency vehicles through a

city. I would challenge you, however, to find a city that applies that

ordinance equally and fairly to private AND governmental emergency

service vehicles alike. If it's not enforced equally, those cities

risk their ordinance being struck down by higher courts.

Either way, the worst offense here is a traffic code violation, and I

don't know too many cops who are going to take the time to follow

ambulances through their cities and issue them citations - especially

when the police have NO WAY of determining whether or not the ambulance

is actually responding to an emergency call - at least not in any

amount of time that's going to interest the average patrol officer.

Police agencies are understaffed and overworked, for the most part.

Chasing ambulances isn't something most are likely to do. This will

only come into play in the accident investigation when/if an ambulance

gets into a collision and the officer has to write the ST-3 and

possibly issue citations to the drivers of the units involved.

Mike

[Guest guest]

Emergency rib and brisket and smoked boudaine delivery service call beb-9111

Re: City / County Ordinances

In a message dated 3/15/2005 4:17:52 P.M. Central Standard Time,

bbledsoe@... writes:

Should have come out...I was smoking ribs and brisket that day.

BEB

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

Don't miss EMStock 2005 (_http://www.EMStock.com_ (http://www.EMStock.com) )

Dr. Bledsoe -- do you deliver ribs and brisket?

-Wes

[Guest guest]

Emergency rib and brisket and smoked boudaine delivery service call beb-9111

Re: City / County Ordinances

In a message dated 3/15/2005 4:17:52 P.M. Central Standard Time,

bbledsoe@... writes:

Should have come out...I was smoking ribs and brisket that day.

BEB

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

Don't miss EMStock 2005 (_http://www.EMStock.com_ (http://www.EMStock.com) )

Dr. Bledsoe -- do you deliver ribs and brisket?

-Wes

[Guest guest]

Sounds like a good idea to me.

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[Guest guest]

Sounds like a good idea to me.

___________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Sounds like a good idea to me.

___________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Nursing homes have contracts with the private body haulers in our state

(land)also. Many times they will call 911 because they had to wait 30

minutes or more for the private to take mom mom to the ER to get the PEG tube

reinserted. I have even been to nursing homes and seen the privates taking a

patient out on a backboard because they fell c/o neck and back pn and a head lac

and my pt. needed a PEG tube. We have discussed this at State meetings (MIEMSS)

and it appears to be a common problem statewide.

___________________________________________________________________

Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand.

Now includes pop-up blocker!

Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today!

[Guest guest]

Nursing homes have contracts with the private body haulers in our state

(land)also. Many times they will call 911 because they had to wait 30

minutes or more for the private to take mom mom to the ER to get the PEG tube

reinserted. I have even been to nursing homes and seen the privates taking a

patient out on a backboard because they fell c/o neck and back pn and a head lac

and my pt. needed a PEG tube. We have discussed this at State meetings (MIEMSS)

and it appears to be a common problem statewide.

___________________________________________________________________

Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand.

Now includes pop-up blocker!

Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today!

[Guest guest]

Nursing homes have contracts with the private body haulers in our state

(land)also. Many times they will call 911 because they had to wait 30

minutes or more for the private to take mom mom to the ER to get the PEG tube

reinserted. I have even been to nursing homes and seen the privates taking a

patient out on a backboard because they fell c/o neck and back pn and a head lac

and my pt. needed a PEG tube. We have discussed this at State meetings (MIEMSS)

and it appears to be a common problem statewide.

___________________________________________________________________

Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand.

Now includes pop-up blocker!

Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today!

[Guest guest]

Interesting point about privates running code 3. We are required to do annual

EVO training and the privates aren't. Mr. Capachino said most private employee

used to work for 911 ambo's first. Doubt it! Said they are just as good at being

MICU. Doubt it!! The body haulers around these parts generally do the wrinkled

butt shuff and have very minimal EMS experience since they don't run 911. It

tickles me when I see them come into the ER after running RLS from a nursing

home. They walk through the ER proud as a peacock with their chests stuck out

just wanting someone to see them.

Larry D.

___________________________________________________________________

Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand.

Now includes pop-up blocker!

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[Guest guest]

Interesting point about privates running code 3. We are required to do annual

EVO training and the privates aren't. Mr. Capachino said most private employee

used to work for 911 ambo's first. Doubt it! Said they are just as good at being

MICU. Doubt it!! The body haulers around these parts generally do the wrinkled

butt shuff and have very minimal EMS experience since they don't run 911. It

tickles me when I see them come into the ER after running RLS from a nursing

home. They walk through the ER proud as a peacock with their chests stuck out

just wanting someone to see them.

Larry D.

___________________________________________________________________

Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand.

Now includes pop-up blocker!

Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today!

[Guest guest]

Interesting point about privates running code 3. We are required to do annual

EVO training and the privates aren't. Mr. Capachino said most private employee

used to work for 911 ambo's first. Doubt it! Said they are just as good at being

MICU. Doubt it!! The body haulers around these parts generally do the wrinkled

butt shuff and have very minimal EMS experience since they don't run 911. It

tickles me when I see them come into the ER after running RLS from a nursing

home. They walk through the ER proud as a peacock with their chests stuck out

just wanting someone to see them.

Larry D.

___________________________________________________________________

Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand.

Now includes pop-up blocker!

Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today!