Re: Long term scars from my nada lying so much when I was growing up

[Guest guest]

sorry to get this out so late.. yes, long term scars are a part of many of our

lives as ko's .. i overreact to people too, not just about lying but other

things too.  i am trying to both accept and know myself as well as work towards

changing and become more trusting of people i care about.  i get a lot of help

from therapy, 12-step groups, mental health groups and talking things out with

friends.  processing what is happening, both inside me with my fleas and

outside, how a more appropriate response can be.  it has been a long term

project for me and a lot of work, but well worth it i think.  best wishes to

you, ann

Subject: Long term scars from my nada lying so much when I

was growing up

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Saturday, July 17, 2010, 10:25 PM

 

Hi folks. To this day I get very angry and feel threatened when someone

lies to me. I never lose my vigilance against that. I know my vigilance comes

from my nada's habitual lying. And yet I feel that I overreact. Any suggestions

on how to feel less defensive when lied to or more trusting in people near and

dear?

[Guest guest]

This really is a thought-provoking thread.

The " analysis " I have come up with is that my mother may not really know she's

lying. It's more like her version of reality is based on expediency - whatever

suits her purposes at the moment becomes her " truth. " I think this is related

to her childhood - lots of deprivation and some actual abuse - it's a survival

skill she developed to get her out of whatever dangerous situation there was at

the time. It's almost like some old WWII movie, where the village is lying to

save members of the community from the SS - there are some circumstances where

telling a lie accomplishes a greater good. I think her early life was kind of

like that - constant stress, constant threats to her well-being. Therefore, I

don't blame her for developing the ability to lie while looking completely

innocent.

That doesn't make it OK for her to lie now, of course, and she does it even when

there's not a threat. She just does it to make things easier for herself, or to

make herself feel important or to be the center of attention. And her lies

usually contain some grain of truth, just enough that it would be too

time-consuming to explain to outsiders that what she's saying isn't really 100%

true. It's more like she's a highly-accomplished " spin doctor. "

But I don't want to live like that. The career I chose for myself was one that

demanded absolute adherence to ethical standards, and it was a job where I spent

large chunks of time searching through evidence to find out what " the truth "

was. I think maybe the fact that I was raised watching my mother's facility for

glib " explanations " and being able to talk her way into almost anything - made

me stricter with myself, and harsher with others when it comes to telling the

truth. So -

With strangers, I usually take a " trust, but verify " approach. Like a

journalist, I want confirmation from other sources if I intend to act on some

piece of information. I " fact check " almost everything before acting on it,

carry the sales circulars to the grocery in case they try to deny me the sales

price, go to source documents when the TV news reports something I intend to

vote about. I don't necessarily do this for minor or irrelevant things (I am

not going to check the facts about Lindsey Lohan's jail experiences, for

instance) - but if it's major, or sounds even close to " too good to be true, " I

check on it before acting. And I think I have a pretty good " nose " for liars.

Once I have determined that a person is untruthful, I am usually just DONE with

that person. I'm not talking about a politician or corporate spokesman spinning

a story to make themselves look good. I'm talking about actual lies. I have a

long memory for this stuff, and if others urge me to give second chances, I am

willing to tell them WHY I choose not to associate with the liar.

I married into a family of Scouts (my son is 3rd generation.) The words " On my

honor... " and " A Scout is trustworthy... " have very real meaning for us. Like

any kid, my son has done lots of stuff over the years that merited punishment of

some kind. But he always knew that the biggest, most unforgivable sin he could

commit was to be dishonest. That would violate both his Oath and the very first

element in the Scout Law. Now, I know that sounds corny, but it is a great way

to explain this to a little boy. It's also one of the most important items in

my " self image. " Unless the SS is at the door, I try to tell the truth - or if

I can't be truthful without being hurtful, I try to disengage from the

conversation. (This means that I disengage from conversation with Nada a LOT!!)

[Guest guest]

This really is a thought-provoking thread.

The " analysis " I have come up with is that my mother may not really know she's

lying. It's more like her version of reality is based on expediency - whatever

suits her purposes at the moment becomes her " truth. " I think this is related

to her childhood - lots of deprivation and some actual abuse - it's a survival

skill she developed to get her out of whatever dangerous situation there was at

the time. It's almost like some old WWII movie, where the village is lying to

save members of the community from the SS - there are some circumstances where

telling a lie accomplishes a greater good. I think her early life was kind of

like that - constant stress, constant threats to her well-being. Therefore, I

don't blame her for developing the ability to lie while looking completely

innocent.

That doesn't make it OK for her to lie now, of course, and she does it even when

there's not a threat. She just does it to make things easier for herself, or to

make herself feel important or to be the center of attention. And her lies

usually contain some grain of truth, just enough that it would be too

time-consuming to explain to outsiders that what she's saying isn't really 100%

true. It's more like she's a highly-accomplished " spin doctor. "

But I don't want to live like that. The career I chose for myself was one that

demanded absolute adherence to ethical standards, and it was a job where I spent

large chunks of time searching through evidence to find out what " the truth "

was. I think maybe the fact that I was raised watching my mother's facility for

glib " explanations " and being able to talk her way into almost anything - made

me stricter with myself, and harsher with others when it comes to telling the

truth. So -

With strangers, I usually take a " trust, but verify " approach. Like a

journalist, I want confirmation from other sources if I intend to act on some

piece of information. I " fact check " almost everything before acting on it,

carry the sales circulars to the grocery in case they try to deny me the sales

price, go to source documents when the TV news reports something I intend to

vote about. I don't necessarily do this for minor or irrelevant things (I am

not going to check the facts about Lindsey Lohan's jail experiences, for

instance) - but if it's major, or sounds even close to " too good to be true, " I

check on it before acting. And I think I have a pretty good " nose " for liars.

Once I have determined that a person is untruthful, I am usually just DONE with

that person. I'm not talking about a politician or corporate spokesman spinning

a story to make themselves look good. I'm talking about actual lies. I have a

long memory for this stuff, and if others urge me to give second chances, I am

willing to tell them WHY I choose not to associate with the liar.

I married into a family of Scouts (my son is 3rd generation.) The words " On my

honor... " and " A Scout is trustworthy... " have very real meaning for us. Like

any kid, my son has done lots of stuff over the years that merited punishment of

some kind. But he always knew that the biggest, most unforgivable sin he could

commit was to be dishonest. That would violate both his Oath and the very first

element in the Scout Law. Now, I know that sounds corny, but it is a great way

to explain this to a little boy. It's also one of the most important items in

my " self image. " Unless the SS is at the door, I try to tell the truth - or if

I can't be truthful without being hurtful, I try to disengage from the

conversation. (This means that I disengage from conversation with Nada a LOT!!)

[Guest guest]

This really is a thought-provoking thread.

The " analysis " I have come up with is that my mother may not really know she's

lying. It's more like her version of reality is based on expediency - whatever

suits her purposes at the moment becomes her " truth. " I think this is related

to her childhood - lots of deprivation and some actual abuse - it's a survival

skill she developed to get her out of whatever dangerous situation there was at

the time. It's almost like some old WWII movie, where the village is lying to

save members of the community from the SS - there are some circumstances where

telling a lie accomplishes a greater good. I think her early life was kind of

like that - constant stress, constant threats to her well-being. Therefore, I

don't blame her for developing the ability to lie while looking completely

innocent.

That doesn't make it OK for her to lie now, of course, and she does it even when

there's not a threat. She just does it to make things easier for herself, or to

make herself feel important or to be the center of attention. And her lies

usually contain some grain of truth, just enough that it would be too

time-consuming to explain to outsiders that what she's saying isn't really 100%

true. It's more like she's a highly-accomplished " spin doctor. "

But I don't want to live like that. The career I chose for myself was one that

demanded absolute adherence to ethical standards, and it was a job where I spent

large chunks of time searching through evidence to find out what " the truth "

was. I think maybe the fact that I was raised watching my mother's facility for

glib " explanations " and being able to talk her way into almost anything - made

me stricter with myself, and harsher with others when it comes to telling the

truth. So -

With strangers, I usually take a " trust, but verify " approach. Like a

journalist, I want confirmation from other sources if I intend to act on some

piece of information. I " fact check " almost everything before acting on it,

carry the sales circulars to the grocery in case they try to deny me the sales

price, go to source documents when the TV news reports something I intend to

vote about. I don't necessarily do this for minor or irrelevant things (I am

not going to check the facts about Lindsey Lohan's jail experiences, for

instance) - but if it's major, or sounds even close to " too good to be true, " I

check on it before acting. And I think I have a pretty good " nose " for liars.

Once I have determined that a person is untruthful, I am usually just DONE with

that person. I'm not talking about a politician or corporate spokesman spinning

a story to make themselves look good. I'm talking about actual lies. I have a

long memory for this stuff, and if others urge me to give second chances, I am

willing to tell them WHY I choose not to associate with the liar.

I married into a family of Scouts (my son is 3rd generation.) The words " On my

honor... " and " A Scout is trustworthy... " have very real meaning for us. Like

any kid, my son has done lots of stuff over the years that merited punishment of

some kind. But he always knew that the biggest, most unforgivable sin he could

commit was to be dishonest. That would violate both his Oath and the very first

element in the Scout Law. Now, I know that sounds corny, but it is a great way

to explain this to a little boy. It's also one of the most important items in

my " self image. " Unless the SS is at the door, I try to tell the truth - or if

I can't be truthful without being hurtful, I try to disengage from the

conversation. (This means that I disengage from conversation with Nada a LOT!!)